NFT: 6/23 Knicks Thread: The Day After

Hopefully they are commited to a full rebuild. Last years brutal offseason leaves me skeptical, but at least they have their future picks.

But the future to me does not look bright. Building around KP, Willy and Frank does nothing to excite me. You don't draft someone based on how they play an offense that the president liked to you use when he was a coach. He is not the freaking coach! Phil and Rambis will be gone in 2 years and so will the triangle of it even makes it that long. We are again building a team that does not mesh well together. KP and Willy cannot be kn the court at the same time for a long period of time in today's NBA. They do not have lateral quickness to do it. KP needs to play the 5.

We need a super athletic 4, Jackson or Isaac would have been perfect, I would have tried to trade willy, #8 and absconded rounder to Orlando to get Isaac. Frank is a non athletic PG who will not be able to guard PGs in this league and he won't be able to break them down either.

On top of it no free agent wants to play in New York and we are stuck with Noah and Lance Thomas for another 3 years. There is a legit chance of losing KP in 3 years because this team will still be awful then. And he is definitely injury prone.

The best thing the day after is what didn't happen, in trading Porzingis. I don't think either of the 2nd round picks will amount to much.

In terms of Frenchy, none of us have seen him play. It's all projection. He doesn't have the same kind of potential projection Porzingis had. At best I think he's a serviceable PG. But the experts that broke him down and scouts that saw him play didn't seem to inspire confidence in me he's a foundation or cornerstone player.

that I preferred Monk but would be fine if the scouts like Frank. It's a fine pick. Lets not pretend that Monk was a top 3 talent -- he kept sliding after we picked. I had already cooled on Smith because of the medicals.

What I notice in the Frank writeups are efficiency, shooting, length, ball movement, gym rat, and winner. Uhh, isnt that the modern NBA to a T? Are the Warriors great because Curry, Thompson, and Green are the best athletes? People crap on his athleticism, but he's very athletic. He just doesnt have that sudden burst first step of the great scoring guard. I suspect it's something you cant pick up at age 18 -- you have it or you dont.

So he wont be Kyrie. If KP is hitting his potential (superstar), Willie is tracking as a better rebounding/scoring, less defensive Gasol, and Frank looked like Batum but a 1/2, and we get a high pick next year, then we can acquire a get to the rim scoring guard.

Lack of sudden burst first step I think is a deal breaker in today's NBA at PG. I can leave that he is not going to be John Wall or Kyrie Irving offensively, but I cannot see how he can defend such players in the NBA. There just isn't anything that screams all star about any part of his game. I don't see Batum who at least is elite defensively. He reminds me of a Courtney Lee of PG's.

I don't get why we re-write history just to make points.

goes against what most people are saying. I don't think anyone on bbi has a clue about this kid, how can you? There is added risk being an international player and so young, but he has the tools. Give the kid a chance.
NBAdraft.net - ( New Window )

talked up Kornet pre-draft. He's a Novak type, could be a solid find for "free" but that's his upside

-Funny Hayes signed with the Knicks after trashing NYC lol

In comment 13509012 Keith said:

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goes against what most people are saying. I don't think anyone on bbi has a clue about this kid, how can you? There is added risk being an international player and so young, but he has the tools. Give the kid a chance. NBAdraft.net - ( New Window )

No longer looking to dump on a new Knick but NBAdraft.net is known as a trash site and not in line with the rest of "the world".

doesn't sound like an NBA player to me. Already almost 22, poor shooter, DX said

"Jaramaz's value as a prospect is based largely in his ability to turn the corner and attack gaps to get to the rim in the half court. A fearless penetrator with a strong first step and frame, Jaramaz has been producing highlight material in the open court in the Adriatic league for quite some time, but just shot 47% around the rim in the half court this season, due in large part to his questionable decision-making. Lacking a natural feel for picking and choosing his spots and forcing the issue badly at times, the 21-year old guard has some interesting tools, but also plenty of things to work on as a scorer. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ognjen-Jaramaz-66867/ ©DraftExpress"

In comment 13509012 Keith said:

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goes against what most people are saying. I don't think anyone on bbi has a clue about this kid, how can you? There is added risk being an international player and so young, but he has the tools. Give the kid a chance. NBAdraft.net - ( New Window )

Not to mention he's 18 and probably hasn't peaked athletically.

also only has 6'5.5 wingspan. I mean what can you expect that late in the draft but just doesn't sound very interesting. I'd leave him in Europe and let him play big minutes

They say he's a high floor prospect although a bit raw at his age. They say he's destined for a long career and he has a lot of quality nba skills. What I'm reading doesn't jive with bbi'ers opinions.

I hope I am proven wrong about French F**k, but if we were looking in that direction I would have preferred to stockpile picks from a team like Portland who didn't have the roster spots for all of their draft picks

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His first step is slow. His handle is loose. He can’t handle pressure.

The article is mostly complimentary of him so, yes, I did cherry pick a couple of negative comments but this guy has me wondering. Is this guy even a PG? Is he a big PG or is just a small 3?
Link - ( New Window )

But Melo needs to be traded this offseason.

Porzingas wont be traded now, he is locked up for 3 years. Things can change about how he feels, what he thinks. Ewing went through similar things early in his career as well.

We have a Porzingas, who is could potentially be a franchise player in the mold of Dirk Nowitizki.

The best possible thing you can do for such a player is to get them a Point Guard.

Obviously we do not know exactly what Frank Ntlikina is, but we know he plays excellent defense and is a very hard worker. he is very athletic. he is very tall and very long. This are attributes the knicks have lacked for years.

Most importantly this combo is 21 years old and 18 years old. They are locked up for the next 3 years.

Second most important fact is the Knicks have all of their first round picks for the first time in a very long time and these will be very high picks for he next 2-3 years to acquire more additional talent or potential stars.

The Knicks are tracking at building a contender in 5 years, which will be past the LeBron James and Golden State Warriors teams.

The Knicks must rid themselves of Carmelo Anthony, They cannot win now. He doesnt have the right attitude for a rebuild and he will hurt their draft position for no reason.

I personally dont think it matters what they acquire for him but rather that they do not take on any long term damaging contracts that prevent them from acquiring players they will need in years 2-5 of this rebuild.

Hopefully he is traded for guys whose contracts expire no later than 2019 or 2020.

the Knicks should under no circumstances bring back Derrick Rose. They will unfortunately have to eat Joakim Noah's contract as no one will take that.

The Knicks do have some money this offseason as well to spend and I hope they use it to acquire a player like Otto Porter, Dion Waiters, Nerlens Noel, kentavius caldwell-pope. Etc. i.e. Guys who are 23-25 and can be contributors role players at 27-29 when this team is ready to compete.

The knicks have 19 mil available in free agency and whatever they can free up in trades. Lets hope they use it on young guys to support Porzingas and Ntilikina and build a new young core. That's the way forward.

had Dotson on my radar after reading a "sleeper" article on DX. He's an energy off the bench type. His value will come in his willingness to use his length on defense and run the court. Limited upside but has a shot to be a rotation stalwart. I would assume the Knicks researched the sexual assault accusations... or I'd hope so.

but i dont hate it. Really the only thing i dont like is that he supposedly doesnt really have HR upside. When you are picking 8 you are hoping to at least get a guy you can dream on. Im not saying you cant on frank, but most of the experts seem to think his upside is good starter (not that there is anything wrong with that). And Frank was pretty much a lock lottery pick so its not like the knicks reached on some guy that most had pegged to go 20th or something.

I like his shooting, size, and defense. Those are solid traits for a PG. And at worst maybe he becomes your SG. Either way im excited to see him and really only wanted Monk instead of him.

But I kind of like that he is one of the youngest and is already playing with men in Europe.

I think our 2nd pick can hit 3s.....

I hoole for the best....

The bigger issue....is the NBA.
No one is besting the Warriors...any time soon

i didnt really follow any of those signings outside of the Knicks.

But also think he has a lower floor than Frank. After watching his videos on draft express and reading up on him more I am really liking the George Hill comps. He seems like he will come in and play efficient offense, shoot 40% from 3, and projects as one of the top defensive PGs in the game. I think worst case scenario is he ends up as a better shooting Shaun Livingston which is still a damn good player.

The criticism of the pick because of the perception that he "was chosen because of his fit in the triangle" is ridiculous. It's not like he was the 15th rated prospect and they reached to take him, there were rumblings before the draft that Dallas was going to move up to get him, and if we had taken Smith then it's likely Frank would have gone 9. He was ranked right around where he was selected.

He's 18 and played in Europe. Physically, he's very advanced at a young age. He's mature, he understands the game and he's a willing, hardworking defender. He lacks burst with the ball in his hands, that seems to be the only knock that he can't fix. You can make up for that in other ways.

and ive def seen it a few places. But he could have a nice advantage over hill in that he is 3 inches tall and has over a 7ft wingspan. Not only will that help him on D, but also the extra height will help him shoot over smaller guards.

which is ok for this team. Let him, Willy and KP grow together. We should get another top prospect next year and then we will really know what our future looks like. Phil deserves to be criticized for some of the things he's done, but you can't look past the fact that we have a much brighter future at this point than we have in the past 15 years. Willy, KP, Frank, our pick next year with only 1 brutal contract on the books. It's really not that bad in NY.

In comment 13509023 Enzo said:

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Quote: His first step is slow. His handle is loose. He can’t handle pressure. The article is mostly complimentary of him so, yes, I did cherry pick a couple of negative comments but this guy has me wondering. Is this guy even a PG? Is he a big PG or is just a small 3? Link - ( New Window )

i think to start he will be more of a 2 who plays some point unless they just throw hik into the fire...

his handle is not as bad as people say but it definitely needs work..

this is going to sound bad but he may not explosive or have that quick burst first step but he is smooth, i know i know

two man game with him and kp could be fun down the road

is not a bad thing... if you can get that with the 8th pick in any draft you take it in run. I know people love hearing comps to HOF players or all NBA guys... but he is 18, has a jumper, and defends. I liked Monk but others passed on him too.

With the pick, I wanted Monk but it is what it is. Kid has talent and a very good work ethic. I still would like to flip Lee for Rubio but who knows what Phil is thinking.

In comment 13509042 TommyWiseau said:

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With the pick, I wanted Monk but it is what it is. Kid has talent and a very good work ethic. I still would like to flip Lee for Rubio but who knows what Phil is thinking.

rubio isnt going anywhere now.

- don't hate the pick but defintiely would have preferred Monk or DSJ. I was really warming to Monk. But I just hope they made the pick for the best player and not for the player who best fit the system/triangle.
-How do the Warriors end up with Jordan Bell for strictly cash. That one hurts. Would have loved to see the Knicks do that deal. Sad to say , but outside of KP/Frank, Golden State has more promising young prospects than the Knicks.

- love the Butler trade for Minny. No brainer for Thibs. Hate the return for the Bulls. I never understood why they were in such a rush to trade Jimmy. And why are they selling Jordan Bell for 3.5 million. They really need the cash?
- those reports about Lebron and Cavs telling Butler to come were complete bullshit. He simply wanted to stay elibigle for the super max which he lost when traded.

All in all not a bad night for the Knicks. Just hope they sign a placeholder vet PG and not Drose.

that every time they go theough the picks they praise eveey pick and then they go look at the knicks drafting for the system, idiots and then move on...no comment on the player..

wilbon last night after the pick, knicks are irrelevant who cares who they pick...

Must have some personal connection to Kornet prefacing his praise with "I might be biased but...." but 7'1 with 3 point range, he has a shots it well from deep. A one trick pony he has some rim protection ability as well. Not a bad guy to have in camp. Ignoring Frenchy for a moment none of the other guys have huge upside but I'd much prefer watching young hungry players than what we've run out there

not going to play for national team coming back as soon as the championship game is over

In comment 13509055 nygiants16 said:

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not going to play for national team coming back as soon as the championship game is over

That's good to hear. Now there is something to look forward to as far as summer league this year. Any word yet on who else will be playing?

Is a terrific guy. His shot actually deteriorated over time, so you never know.

Excellent inside. As a passer and on D. (you don't see the floor at Wisconsin if you don't play D and don't take care of the ball)

If he makes it, NYC would be great for him. Very intelligent and politically committed.

In comment 13509052 nygiants16 said:

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that every time they go theough the picks they praise eveey pick and then they go look at the knicks drafting for the system, idiots and then move on...no comment on the player.. wilbon last night after the pick, knicks are irrelevant who cares who they pick...

They spent plenty of time talking about the Knicks, mostly bashing them (rightly so) for the circus pre-pick, but afterwards they discussed Frank as much as most other picks. They had Fran on to discuss his strengths/weaknesses.

but as long as KP wasn't traded I can deal. I think it's imperative we're top 3 pick bad this next season. I think FN, given makeup, length, and shooting, has a decent shot at becoming a quality starter. We're going to need another star. The aim should be getting that star next year and letting this core develop over the next 3-4 years and looking to contend then.

In comment 13509063 Ash_3 said:

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but as long as KP wasn't traded I can deal. I think it's imperative we're top 3 pick bad this next season. I think FN, given makeup, length, and shooting, has a decent shot at becoming a quality starter. We're going to need another star. The aim should be getting that star next year and letting this core develop over the next 3-4 years and looking to contend then.

This. Need to trade Melo ASAP and avoid bringing in any vets. Let Willy/KP/FN develop this year and if they lose, they lose.

..

In comment 13509052 nygiants16 said:

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that every time they go theough the picks they praise eveey pick and then they go look at the knicks drafting for the system, idiots and then move on...no comment on the player.. wilbon last night after the pick, knicks are irrelevant who cares who they pick...

I thought Wilson was embarrassing last night. "It's no longer a guard league it's all about wings". What is he talking about?

Bilas and Reece Davis were good but everything else was bad on espn.

What the hell is Phil's obsession with Rose? Frenchy isn't ready to play major NBA minutes which means Rose coming back would =he's the starter with big minutes (not to mention not the type of player I want FN emulating. Move on, F Rose) #SergioRodriguezPerfectFit

I get the rebuild but Frank (maybe a nice piece), Willy & KP doesn't sound like a championship (and that's what we play for) foundation. I agree on KP but now you have your 4th and 5th piece. That's the easy part. The hard part is finding the next two of your top three. Yes those pieces can come 4 years from now so a major tank like Filthy is in order. It will be tough to watch and be patient. Why can't we just have an unlimited cap? (Grin).

got for Butler the Clips Austin Rivers and 2 future firsts type deal is starting to look like what we can expect for Melo. Now that Butler is off the market and George is so adamant about LA maybe we will start to get at least a melo rumor again.

In comment 13509072 TyreeHelmet said:

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In comment 13509052 nygiants16 said: Quote: that every time they go theough the picks they praise eveey pick and then they go look at the knicks drafting for the system, idiots and then move on...no comment on the player.. wilbon last night after the pick, knicks are irrelevant who cares who they pick... I thought Wilson was embarrassing last night. "It's no longer a guard league it's all about wings". What is he talking about? Bilas and Reece Davis were good but everything else was bad on espn.

i think he was bitter because his team has no direction and made a horrible trade

In comment 13509073 DanMetroMan said:

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What the hell is Phil's obsession with Rose? Frenchy isn't ready to play major NBA minutes which means Rose coming back would =he's the starter with big minutes (not to mention not the type of player I want FN emulating. Move on, F Rose) #SergioRodriguezPerfectFit

dont be surprised if they resign rose, last night he was asked about rose and he said "we are listening"

Im not going to fault the knicks for only having KP, Frank, and WH. You have to start somewhere. Its not like if they took Monk you would be guaranteeing they already have 2 of the top 3 players they need to win a title. Get good young players, add assets, and hope.

In comment 13509076 Italianju said:

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got for Butler the Clips Austin Rivers and 2 future firsts type deal is starting to look like what we can expect for Melo. Now that Butler is off the market and George is so adamant about LA maybe we will start to get at least a melo rumor again.

what about minnesota? he is in paris with butler, maybe he can convince him to come to minny

Monk really thought the Knicks were taking him.

“I wanted Malik in New York because I thought he would light it up. It would be back on,” Calipari said on ESPN’s draft set. “But they must’ve liked the French kid. I’ve not seen him enough, but I hear he’s really good.”

In comment 13509079 Italianju said:

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Im not going to fault the knicks for only having KP, Frank, and WH. You have to start somewhere. Its not like if they took Monk you would be guaranteeing they already have 2 of the top 3 players they need to win a title. Get good young players, add assets, and hope.

it is a lot of luck to, have to hit on later picks, look at spurs and warriors as examples...

it is not just about getting the number 1 pick, if you can hit on some late picks you can move quicker, ypu dont it is going to take time...

you also have to hope they repair their relationship with kp and kp ahows enough where an established player wants to come join him

would MINN want Melo? Can they convince him to be the 6th man? Do you want him starting at PF with KAT at C?

Plus after the butler trade im not sure how many more assets MINN would want to give up.