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NFT: 6/23 Knicks Thread: The Day After

Jon in NYC : 6/23/2017 5:55 am
Very solid draft for the Knicks. I give it a solid B. I know most of you don't love Frank, but I think we'll be very happy with what he provides long term.

Since we've beaten the Frank talk to death, I thought it would be helpful to talk about some other guys and look at the roster construction.

With their first 2nd rounder, they took Damyean Dotson.

6'6, 44% 3PT shooter, solid athlete, seems to have upside as a passer and defender. Major knocks are that he's already 23 and has limited shot creating ability. Seems like he could step into the role Justin Holiday had.

With their second 2nd, they took Ognjen Jaramaz

Seems to be a plus athlete with good size and handle, but a subpar shooter. Probably unlikely he plays in the NBA next year but who knows.

They also signed Nigel Hayes who I think has a real shot at making the team. Smart kid, good passer, rebounder, defender. Can't shoot a lick. Good 15th man, good locker room presence.

And Luke Kornet, who seems to be able to shoot and block shots, but do practically nothing else. Apparently he signed a two way contract, so they can just bring him back and forth between NYK and Westchester? I'm honestly not quite sure how these things work. It's a new rule I believe.

Here's a crack at the current depth chart:

C. Willy/Noah/KOQ/Plumlee
PF. KP/Lance/Ndour
SF. Melo/Kuz/Hayes
SG. Lee/Dotson
PG. Frank/Randle

Woof. That is one trashy NBA roster. But that's okay.

Next step has to be moving Melo imo. Rebuild around a KP/Frank/Willy core, tank, and use the next top pick they get to bring on a high profile scorer.


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Minny  
TyreeHelmet : 6/23/2017 8:48 am : link
Melo to Sota actually makes a lot of basketball sense but I'm not sure what they would give up. Can they still trade Pekovic's contract?

Also does having Butler now rule them out on DRose? Didn't those 2 butt heads when in Chicago?
Rose  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2017 8:49 am : link
Would be an awful move. Let's just ignore his total lack of chemistry with KP. Sergio is a solid ball distributor who can be had on the cheap and the bonus of being friendly with KP and Willy
RE: sure, but why...  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2017 8:49 am : link
In comment 13509085 Italianju said:
Quote:
would MINN want Melo? Can they convince him to be the 6th man? Do you want him starting at PF with KAT at C?

Plus after the butler trade im not sure how many more assets MINN would want to give up.


i dont know, just a though, i just dont want clippers or cavs crap
RE: Rose  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2017 8:51 am : link
In comment 13509091 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Would be an awful move. Let's just ignore his total lack of chemistry with KP. Sergio is a solid ball distributor who can be had on the cheap and the bonus of being friendly with KP and Willy


dan it is happebing i am sorry to tell you but you know it is, deep down inside you know it is...
RE: is it annoyijg anyone else  
aimrocky : 6/23/2017 8:53 am : link
In comment 13509052 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
that every time they go theough the picks they praise eveey pick and then they go look at the knicks drafting for the system, idiots and then move on...no comment on the player..

wilbon last night after the pick, knicks are irrelevant who cares who they pick...


Yep, I've been screaming this for the past week. This is the result of how the Knick PR department treats the Media. Every story is blown out of proportion and it's always piling on.
Keith  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2017 8:54 am : link
Advocated for Rose as a 6th man if we took a PG ready to step in, Frank is not that. Can someone really make a good argument for keeping Rose as the PG? I'd love to hear it
Are the bulls tanking necessarily?  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2017 8:57 am : link
Could melo still be on their radar? Melo and KOQ for RoLo, Rondo (who can be cut), Payne and Valentine.

Wade is still in Chicago, they got Lavine, Dunn and Markannen for butler. Melo can step in Butlers role and Foreman can keep competing for the 8 seed like he always wants to.
That's  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2017 8:57 am : link
not a shot at Keith for the record. I just think "everyone" realizes Frank is not ready to step in and play 25-30 minutes right out of the gate so the Knicks will be adding a "starting" PG. Does anyone think that should be Derrick Rose? Really? Again I posted this yesterday but Rubio passed the ball to KAT, TWICE as many times as Rose to KP... TWICE!!!
RE: Keith  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2017 8:59 am : link
In comment 13509097 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Advocated for Rose as a 6th man if we took a PG ready to step in, Frank is not that. Can someone really make a good argument for keeping Rose as the PG? I'd love to hear it


nope lol but i am going to laugh at how much this board explodes when he is resigned...

phil thiugh did mention last night how he wants to grow a team together of young guys, so we will see
Tyree  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2017 9:00 am : link
I believe Minnesota can clear pek's contract off the books for medical reasons. Which would give them max cap room to go after someone like Blake or Millsap. Also the only player they can really offer for Melo is Dieng and I wouldn't do that. Don't want that contract on the books.
RE: That's  
TyreeHelmet : 6/23/2017 9:00 am : link
In comment 13509103 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
not a shot at Keith for the record. I just think "everyone" realizes Frank is not ready to step in and play 25-30 minutes right out of the gate so the Knicks will be adding a "starting" PG. Does anyone think that should be Derrick Rose? Really? Again I posted this yesterday but Rubio passed the ball to KAT, TWICE as many times as Rose to KP... TWICE!!!


No. He's the last guy I want mentoring Frank. Also I know he's probably not ready, but I wouldn't mind him taking his lumps and getting reps. But I agree Sergio would be a nice signing.
I cannot make a solid case for Rose  
Keith : 6/23/2017 9:00 am : link
as the starting PG. For me, it's a 6th man on a 1 year deal or else I'm not interested. That's if his medical checks out.
RE: Are the bulls tanking necessarily?  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2017 9:00 am : link
In comment 13509102 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
Could melo still be on their radar? Melo and KOQ for RoLo, Rondo (who can be cut), Payne and Valentine.

Wade is still in Chicago, they got Lavine, Dunn and Markannen for butler. Melo can step in Butlers role and Foreman can keep competing for the 8 seed like he always wants to.


i am shovked wade is still picking up his option, that team is going to be horrible...

I'm all in on Frank  
PaulBlakeTSU : 6/23/2017 9:01 am : link
because what choice do I have? Seems like a Ron Harper type based on what I've read about him. I just pray he was drafted for his abilities and not for his fit in the fucking triangle.

But I can't believe how garbage this roster is. I defend Melo more than most but I really hope we can trade him and start tanking for a crack at Michael Porter, Jr.
any chance knicks can get teodosic?  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2017 9:02 am : link
obviously frank is the future at point but he can play off the ball to which may end up being his best position...

i qish they coild still get rubio bit i doubt the wolves trade him now unless they really do want rose
Pretty sure the Knicks  
averagejoe : 6/23/2017 9:02 am : link
have locked up another 50 loss season next year. They drafted yet another foreigner that is not ready to help them win right away. Great move. We will wait for him to blossom into a back up point guard in three years while the Knicks remain in the cellar. This team is a joke.
RE: RE: That's  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2017 9:04 am : link
In comment 13509109 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 13509103 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


not a shot at Keith for the record. I just think "everyone" realizes Frank is not ready to step in and play 25-30 minutes right out of the gate so the Knicks will be adding a "starting" PG. Does anyone think that should be Derrick Rose? Really? Again I posted this yesterday but Rubio passed the ball to KAT, TWICE as many times as Rose to KP... TWICE!!!



No. He's the last guy I want mentoring Frank. Also I know he's probably not ready, but I wouldn't mind him taking his lumps and getting reps. But I agree Sergio would be a nice signing.


I'm sure he will play but realistically (and this isn't a shot at him) he's just not ready to play 28-30 minutes right off the bat. I saw at least 3 games and while his length stood out he's underdeveloped (especially his lower half). Even if he surprises and plays 20 minutes per night you still have a ton of minutes for "someone" else. I'd like it to be a consummate professional, someone who helps KP/Willy (and maybe Frank himself) and someone we can reduce the role of later in the season without a big storyline. I've advocated for Sergio Rodriguz for a while now and still think he's close to perfect for us.
RE: any chance knicks can get teodosic?  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2017 9:05 am : link
In comment 13509114 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
obviously frank is the future at point but he can play off the ball to which may end up being his best position...

i qish they coild still get rubio bit i doubt the wolves trade him now unless they really do want rose


He wants MAJOR money and Fran (who licks the balls of all euros) said he was an AWFUL defensive player (called him the best passer in the world).
RE: RE: Are the bulls tanking necessarily?  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2017 9:05 am : link
In comment 13509111 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13509102 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


Could melo still be on their radar? Melo and KOQ for RoLo, Rondo (who can be cut), Payne and Valentine.

Wade is still in Chicago, they got Lavine, Dunn and Markannen for butler. Melo can step in Butlers role and Foreman can keep competing for the 8 seed like he always wants to.



i am shovked wade is still picking up his option, that team is going to be horrible...


Its not going to be great but if lavine comes back healthy and continues his growth, markannen provides floor spacing and Dunn gives them anything they can still be in the running for a playoff spot. Although Miami would be a better team if melo went there.
Derrick Rose  
PaulBlakeTSU : 6/23/2017 9:07 am : link
would be such a mistake unless the goal was to tank. Not only did he tear his knee again, but he has no commitment to defense and is only okay on offense since he doesn't space the floor or look to be a facilitator.

The Knicks need PGs right now who aren't good enough for the Knicks to win, but are looking to improve, mature, and be facilitators to help improve the other young players and develop chemistry for the future.
I really wanted them to take Smith Jr.  
Heisenberg : 6/23/2017 9:07 am : link
And I also preferred Monk. It seems the Knicks like Frank the most, and were pretty clear all along that they'd pick him. Hope he grows into a good player.
RE: RE: any chance knicks can get teodosic?  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2017 9:07 am : link
In comment 13509118 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13509114 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


obviously frank is the future at point but he can play off the ball to which may end up being his best position...

i qish they coild still get rubio bit i doubt the wolves trade him now unless they really do want rose



He wants MAJOR money and Fran (who licks the balls of all euros) said he was an AWFUL defensive player (called him the best passer in the world).


yeah i dont know much about him, i just have heard you mebtion him a lot...
RE: RE: RE: Are the bulls tanking necessarily?  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2017 9:09 am : link
In comment 13509119 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13509111 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13509102 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


Could melo still be on their radar? Melo and KOQ for RoLo, Rondo (who can be cut), Payne and Valentine.

Wade is still in Chicago, they got Lavine, Dunn and Markannen for butler. Melo can step in Butlers role and Foreman can keep competing for the 8 seed like he always wants to.



i am shovked wade is still picking up his option, that team is going to be horrible...




Its not going to be great but if lavine comes back healthy and continues his growth, markannen provides floor spacing and Dunn gives them anything they can still be in the running for a playoff spot. Although Miami would be a better team if melo went there.


markannen is steve novak, dude does nothing but shoot...

i like lavine i think hebis a good piece...

the problem with dunn is he was an older rookie who was supposed to be able to come in right away and at least provide good defense and he was benched by thibs for poor defense...
Am I overreacting on the wolves again?  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2017 9:10 am : link
In that if they can get another piece in FA they could be somewhat competitive with the warriors and arguably a top 3 team?

Butler and KAT could both legitimately be top 10 players. If they land Blake Griffin or Milsap they add another top 20-ish player and wiggins could very well develop into one too. Wouldn't take them over the warriors but they match up extremely well.

Butler on KD, milsap on draymlnd. What answer do the warriors have for KAT?
RE: RE: RE: any chance knicks can get teodosic?  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2017 9:11 am : link
In comment 13509123 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13509118 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


In comment 13509114 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


obviously frank is the future at point but he can play off the ball to which may end up being his best position...

i qish they coild still get rubio bit i doubt the wolves trade him now unless they really do want rose



He wants MAJOR money and Fran (who licks the balls of all euros) said he was an AWFUL defensive player (called him the best passer in the world).



yeah i dont know much about him, i just have heard you mebtion him a lot...


Trust me I've been monitoring him ever since Austin Green talked him up (I think he's the best euro writer) and then Fran called him "the best passer in the world, including the NBA" but said he's absolutely awful defensively. If he were cheap sure but he's going to get his money.
I  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2017 9:11 am : link
believe this kid went undrafted, I'd love to give him a look
Link - ( New Window )
I really wonder if the jordan...  
Italianju : 6/23/2017 9:13 am : link
connection would make Melo consider CHA. He would actually be a descent fit on that team as he can take some of the scoring load of Kemba's shoulders. Batum/MKG dont need the ball to succeed so they still fit (although for salary purposes MKG might be in a deal). They dont have a ton of young assets unless they would move Monk (how awesome would that be) but they have some and they have all of their picks moving forward
RE: I really wonder if the jordan...  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2017 9:15 am : link
In comment 13509131 Italianju said:
Quote:
connection would make Melo consider CHA. He would actually be a descent fit on that team as he can take some of the scoring load of Kemba's shoulders. Batum/MKG dont need the ball to succeed so they still fit (although for salary purposes MKG might be in a deal). They dont have a ton of young assets unless they would move Monk (how awesome would that be) but they have some and they have all of their picks moving forward


I was saying I'd take Lamb, MKG, Zeller and whoever they take 31 for Melo.
RE: I  
mavric : 6/23/2017 9:15 am : link
In comment 13509130 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
believe this kid went undrafted, I'd love to give him a look Link - ( New Window )


PG (Brazil) George De Paula - signed by the Wizards I believe
Frank  
Csonka : 6/23/2017 9:16 am : link
Someone help me. What exactly do they mean saying he's a fit for the triangle? I keep hearing/reading it. Don't know what is meant.
RE: RE: I  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2017 9:18 am : link
In comment 13509133 mavric said:
Quote:
In comment 13509130 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


believe this kid went undrafted, I'd love to give him a look Link - ( New Window )



PG (Brazil) George De Paula - signed by the Wizards I believe


Thanks Mavric. I admittedly only heard of him yesterday, not really on my radar, just didn't see his name drafted.
RE: Frank  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2017 9:19 am : link
In comment 13509135 Csonka said:
Quote:
Someone help me. What exactly do they mean saying he's a fit for the triangle? I keep hearing/reading it. Don't know what is meant.


it is a buzzword foe the media to create more clicks
he is tall.  
Italianju : 6/23/2017 9:23 am : link
that makes him able to pass over people or some shit. That is what i kept hearing the most in reference to him and the triangle.
RE: Am I overreacting on the wolves again?  
giants#1 : 6/23/2017 9:24 am : link
In comment 13509126 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In that if they can get another piece in FA they could be somewhat competitive with the warriors and arguably a top 3 team?

Butler and KAT could both legitimately be top 10 players. If they land Blake Griffin or Milsap they add another top 20-ish player and wiggins could very well develop into one too. Wouldn't take them over the warriors but they match up extremely well.

Butler on KD, milsap on draymlnd. What answer do the warriors have for KAT?


CP3 would fit nicely there too!

CP3
Butler
Wiggins
KAT
whoever

would be awesome defensively with Thibs coaching them.
I'm trying to find something to be excited about  
Chris684 : 6/23/2017 9:25 am : link
for the Knicks and I just can't see it.

Not to kill the pick but every single person I've heard who has scouted this kid stops short of superstar or even all-star and the best case scenario you hear is "solid starter". That won't get you very far in the NBA. Teams like the Raptors, Hawks, Grizzlies, etc. (just to name a few) have lots of solid starters and no hope of winning anything.

It's frustrating to suck so bad and still not have a shot at the top of this year's class. That is obviously now the big fear as we watch the rest of the offseason plan unfold. We better get rid of Rose, Melo and Lee. Picking 8th is the fast track to nowhere. We need a top 3 pick.
RE: he is tall.  
giants#1 : 6/23/2017 9:26 am : link
In comment 13509141 Italianju said:
Quote:
that makes him able to pass over people or some shit. That is what i kept hearing the most in reference to him and the triangle.


I thought it was more about:
1. He can shoot
2. High BBIQ
3. He's good at moving the ball
4. Has the size/ability to play either G spot
RE: Frank  
Keith : 6/23/2017 9:28 am : link
In comment 13509135 Csonka said:
Quote:
Someone help me. What exactly do they mean saying he's a fit for the triangle? I keep hearing/reading it. Don't know what is meant.


He has good vision, smart ball player that understands spacing, can shoot(should get better).
RE: Frank  
Jim in Fairfax : 6/23/2017 9:29 am : link
In comment 13509135 Csonka said:
Quote:
Someone help me. What exactly do they mean saying he's a fit for the triangle? I keep hearing/reading it. Don't know what is meant.


The point guard doesn't control the ball as much in the triangle because the system encourages ball movement. So a PG needs off the ball skills in the triangle.
RE: RE: RE: That's  
TyreeHelmet : 6/23/2017 9:29 am : link
In comment 13509117 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13509109 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


In comment 13509103 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


not a shot at Keith for the record. I just think "everyone" realizes Frank is not ready to step in and play 25-30 minutes right out of the gate so the Knicks will be adding a "starting" PG. Does anyone think that should be Derrick Rose? Really? Again I posted this yesterday but Rubio passed the ball to KAT, TWICE as many times as Rose to KP... TWICE!!!



No. He's the last guy I want mentoring Frank. Also I know he's probably not ready, but I wouldn't mind him taking his lumps and getting reps. But I agree Sergio would be a nice signing.



I'm sure he will play but realistically (and this isn't a shot at him) he's just not ready to play 28-30 minutes right off the bat. I saw at least 3 games and while his length stood out he's underdeveloped (especially his lower half). Even if he surprises and plays 20 minutes per night you still have a ton of minutes for "someone" else. I'd like it to be a consummate professional, someone who helps KP/Willy (and maybe Frank himself) and someone we can reduce the role of later in the season without a big storyline. I've advocated for Sergio Rodriguz for a while now and still think he's close to perfect for us.


I was really hoping for Frank Mason in the 2nd round. Little more "NBA ready" and just really like him as a player.

Unrelated but the word is the mavs want jrue holiday to pair with DSJ. They could actually build a nice team.
RE: RE: he is tall.  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2017 9:29 am : link
In comment 13509144 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13509141 Italianju said:


Quote:


that makes him able to pass over people or some shit. That is what i kept hearing the most in reference to him and the triangle.



I thought it was more about:
1. He can shoot
2. High BBIQ
3. He's good at moving the ball
4. Has the size/ability to play either G spot


and yet the media makes it out to be a bad thing..

some dumbass on espn radio this morning goes, they passed on smith why because he doesnt fit the triangle so they took some french kid...seeiously?
RE: I'm trying to find something to be excited about  
giants#1 : 6/23/2017 9:29 am : link
In comment 13509143 Chris684 said:
Quote:
for the Knicks and I just can't see it.

Not to kill the pick but every single person I've heard who has scouted this kid stops short of superstar or even all-star and the best case scenario you hear is "solid starter". That won't get you very far in the NBA. Teams like the Raptors, Hawks, Grizzlies, etc. (just to name a few) have lots of solid starters and no hope of winning anything.

It's frustrating to suck so bad and still not have a shot at the top of this year's class. That is obviously now the big fear as we watch the rest of the offseason plan unfold. We better get rid of Rose, Melo and Lee. Picking 8th is the fast track to nowhere. We need a top 3 pick.


Part of the problem is that they 'sucked' but they weren't epicly bad like the Nets/Sixers (the dysfunction is another story). So they ended up with a mid-lottery pick and didn't really have a shot at the 'elite' prospects.

That's why they need to deal Melo and avoid signing any significant vets. The goals for 2018 should be:
1. Develop KP as the primary option
2. Acclimate FN to the NBA
3. Get as high a pick in the 2018 draft as possible
RE: RE: RE: he is tall.  
giants#1 : 6/23/2017 9:31 am : link
In comment 13509152 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13509144 giants#1 said:


Quote:


In comment 13509141 Italianju said:


Quote:


that makes him able to pass over people or some shit. That is what i kept hearing the most in reference to him and the triangle.



I thought it was more about:
1. He can shoot
2. High BBIQ
3. He's good at moving the ball
4. Has the size/ability to play either G spot



and yet the media makes it out to be a bad thing..

some dumbass on espn radio this morning goes, they passed on smith why because he doesnt fit the triangle so they took some french kid...seeiously?


To be fair, the media mocks the Knicks for wanting to run the triangle. Not because FN has some of the skills mentioned.
I  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2017 9:33 am : link
wouldn't bring back Rose OR Holiday. Dotson can replicate much of what Holiday did. I'd love to see the Knicks give "no names" a shot. Mine the league/G league for talent. Holiday is a solid player but don't lock yourself into more Lance Thomas deals. Those types can always be added.
RE: RE: RE: RE: he is tall.  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2017 9:34 am : link
In comment 13509155 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13509152 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13509144 giants#1 said:


Quote:


In comment 13509141 Italianju said:


Quote:


that makes him able to pass over people or some shit. That is what i kept hearing the most in reference to him and the triangle.



I thought it was more about:
1. He can shoot
2. High BBIQ
3. He's good at moving the ball
4. Has the size/ability to play either G spot



and yet the media makes it out to be a bad thing..

some dumbass on espn radio this morning goes, they passed on smith why because he doesnt fit the triangle so they took some french kid...seeiously?



To be fair, the media mocks the Knicks for wanting to run the triangle. Not because FN has some of the skills mentioned.


last night they mocjed the knicks
hit submit to quick  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2017 9:35 am : link
they mocked the knicks for ending the run of freshman
It means.....  
George from PA : 6/23/2017 9:39 am : link
That do not know much about the player but knows Jackson
Too early to be counting on a tank next year.  
bceagle05 : 6/23/2017 9:39 am : link
If they dump Melo, absolutely. If Melo and Lee are back next season, with KP and Willy taking a step forward, we'll be in the 8-10 range yet again.
Portland  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2017 9:39 am : link
added Collins (obviously not getting him) and Swanigan... really wish we could sell Melo on Portland:(
I so wanted Monk.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/23/2017 9:43 am : link
I think he's going to be great. I haven't seen much of Ntiklina so we'll see.
do  
Steve in Greenwich : 6/23/2017 9:45 am : link
the Knicks have Bird rights on Derrick Rose? Not sure how it works anymore since the new CBA. I saw Bobby Marks tweet last night saying after the draft the Knicks have about 14 mil in Cap space so I figure that means we cant do much long term damage by signing some Jrue Holliday type or Rose, but wasnt sure if there are any bird rights that would mean they could go over the 14 mil to retain him. I would have serious doubts that Rose would be the one and only signing of the off-season and take up every last dollar the Knicks had to spend.
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