Very solid draft for the Knicks. I give it a solid B. I know most of you don't love Frank, but I think we'll be very happy with what he provides long term.
Since we've beaten the Frank talk to death, I thought it would be helpful to talk about some other guys and look at the roster construction.
With their first 2nd rounder, they took Damyean Dotson.
6'6, 44% 3PT shooter, solid athlete, seems to have upside as a passer and defender. Major knocks are that he's already 23 and has limited shot creating ability. Seems like he could step into the role Justin Holiday had.
With their second 2nd, they took Ognjen Jaramaz
Seems to be a plus athlete with good size and handle, but a subpar shooter. Probably unlikely he plays in the NBA next year but who knows.
They also signed Nigel Hayes who I think has a real shot at making the team. Smart kid, good passer, rebounder, defender. Can't shoot a lick. Good 15th man, good locker room presence.
And Luke Kornet, who seems to be able to shoot and block shots, but do practically nothing else. Apparently he signed a two way contract, so they can just bring him back and forth between NYK and Westchester? I'm honestly not quite sure how these things work. It's a new rule I believe.
Here's a crack at the current depth chart:
C. Willy/Noah/KOQ/Plumlee
PF. KP/Lance/Ndour
SF. Melo/Kuz/Hayes
SG. Lee/Dotson
PG. Frank/Randle
Woof. That is one trashy NBA roster. But that's okay.
Next step has to be moving Melo imo. Rebuild around a KP/Frank/Willy core, tank, and use the next top pick they get to bring on a high profile scorer.
last night they mocjed the knicks
Everyone's mocking the Knicks now and why shouldn't they with the FO circus?
We do have Rose's bird rights. Would be an idiotic move
I think our guard play is going to be horrendous without Rose (it was already bad with him) and if we trade Melo, we won't have his occasional 30+ pt. performances that can pad a losing record.
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If they dump Melo, absolutely. If Melo and Lee are back next season, with KP and Willy taking a step forward, we'll be in the 8-10 range yet again.
I think our guard play is going to be horrendous without Rose (it was already bad with him) and if we trade Melo, we won't have his occasional 30+ pt. performances that can pad a losing record.
I think his point was that with Melo, they probably have enough for 25-30 wins or more if KP/Willy make significant jumps.
So we can't count on a top lotto pick until Melo is dealt (if he even is).
I think our guard play is going to be horrendous without Rose (it was already bad with him) and if we trade Melo, we won't have his occasional 30+ pt. performances that can pad a losing record. [
Ummm... good?
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I think our guard play is going to be horrendous without Rose (it was already bad with him) and if we trade Melo, we won't have his occasional 30+ pt. performances that can pad a losing record. [
Ummm... good?
I was responding to an earlier post, Jim.
Move Melo and we are in a very good spot. I understand the negativity around the team and management, but if you can move Melo(without even getting anything significant), the future is very bright. 2 quality young bigs that are cost controlled, an 18 year old PG with room to grow, our first rounder next year and possibly an asset or two to move for more picks. Only way I keep Melo is if he blocks every trade and then I'd make him a bench player.
I do believe that Rose could be valuable as a 6th man, but not now. He just does not fit, especially next to KP. I'm not as doom and gloom as most. This season should be fun watching the young kids progress(if Melo isn't there). We should get a top 10 pick next year, possibly better. I'm excited for the potential as long as management doesn't make any bad decisions this offseason.
Move Melo and we are in a very good spot. I understand the negativity around the team and management, but if you can move Melo(without even getting anything significant), the future is very bright. 2 quality young bigs that are cost controlled, an 18 year old PG with room to grow, our first rounder next year and possibly an asset or two to move for more picks. Only way I keep Melo is if he blocks every trade and then I'd make him a bench player.
I do believe that Rose could be valuable as a 6th man, but not now. He just does not fit, especially next to KP. I'm not as doom and gloom as most. This season should be fun watching the young kids progress(if Melo isn't there). We should get a top 10 pick next year, possibly better. I'm excited for the potential as long as management doesn't make any bad decisions this offseason.
supposedly phil loves lee and likes him as a vet leader on the team
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That would be Sergio Rodriguez. Will be cheap, has played with Willy in Spain (posted a highlight above), pure PG whose role can be reduced as Frank's increases. Perfect fit for a team trying to develop some kids.
My 2020 NBA Finals prediction: 76ers vs. Wolves.
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on a very favorable deal. Someone who will have some value at the deadline who can start with KP and Willy.
That would be Sergio Rodriguez. Will be cheap, has played with Willy in Spain (posted a highlight above), pure PG whose role can be reduced as Frank's increases. Perfect fit for a team trying to develop some kids.
Sign me up. Lets go full Euro on the NBA.
I don't think his game is collapsing, but I do think it's on a gradual decline. Half a season of solid play, especially without the toxic play of Derrick Rose around, should be enough to remind people that he's still a quality scorer and rebounder and to go from there.
Same. I still don't understand why they even wanted to trade him. It's one thing if they got a monster offer of 2 top 5 picks or something but why accept this?
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His shots are getting further and further from the basket. He does nothing to help a team when the ball isn't in his hands(no movement, no picks, no defense) and when the ball is in his hands, he's looking to chuck. He's not the same player since his knee injury and he's not going to come in and all of a sudden be the old Melo and score in various ways. He's a terrible fit next to KP as well. We have to move him now to Cleveland or LAC for whatever we can get(without taking back bad contracts).
I don't think his game is collapsing, but I do think it's on a gradual decline. Half a season of solid play, especially without the toxic play of Derrick Rose around, should be enough to remind people that he's still a quality scorer and rebounder and to go from there.
You think Rose was the reason Melo had a brutal season? Unless we get a PG that can control the offense, you are going to see the same Melo. Theres always so many excuses for Melo. His game is not good anymore. He can't and doesn't take the ball to the rim. He can't create for other people. He won't move the ball, he's always stagnant. He's chucking from further and further away. That stuff is fine in the past when he's a bull near the basket taking quality shots. He's not that guy anymore. I look forward to hearing next years excuse.
Hard to say Frank's a bad pick right now, but I'd have preferred someone else. Suspect he's not going to become anything more than a quality role player but I give the Knicks Euro scouting the benefit of the doubt.
I am a Melo fan and a Cuse fan but the Knicks can not move forward with him on the team.
When Melo is gone
KP will be the #1 option
KP can strictly play the 4 with a solid center.
KP can become the leader of this team and face of the franchise.
KP will be the guy to take the big shot.
Melo stops all of this.
I say no chance. They are on good terms meaning they aren't enemies, but they did not mesh well at all. No way does D'Antoni want that again, no way. I think Cle and LAC are the only options at this point.
Frank is 18 years old and green as grass. How do you know that he'll never be a superstar? That's crazy talk.
Truth is, the scouts have a much better idea of his talents than fans who only heard of him when the draft was coming up.
People thought KP would never amount to anything and the crowd booed relentlessly when he was picked. For days afterwards, all I read was that it was a "wasted pick" and that KP would never amount to anything. "Too skinny", "geeky", "will get shoved around in the NBA where the real players play", etc., etc. How things change once the sneakers hit the court and the know-it-all fans realized that maybe those professional scouts who spend months and hundreds of hours analyzing players' abilities in Europe might know more than them.
how can you possibly know that frank is a bad pick? or that he will never be more anything more than a solid starter?
the only reason you think smith or monk has higher upside is because you saw them play and they were in your face on espn all the time...
FACT you have no idea what frank will become, he is 18 playing in a league with grown men better than college
Watching the draft last night, someone, Fran maybe, said that the league that Frank plays in, any team in the league would beat North Carolina by 40 points. He then repeated it emphatically. So I'm not sure being a good defender in the ACC is quite on par with the competition Frank has been playing since he was, what, 16?
And they proceed to sign CP3?
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to the Wolves (he moves to the 4) for Rubio, Dieng and the rights to Justin Patton.
And they proceed to sign CP3?
Make it so.
significant more minutes is a little bit of a tretch he played 3 more minutes a game ans came off the bench...
i agree i dont think he comes in right away and is reasy for minutes but kp came off the bench and only played 21 miknutes a night
Cp3
Wiggins
Butler
Melo
KAT
Absolutely 0 depth so betting big on health but I think that team could take the warriors to 6-7.
Cp3
Wiggins
Butler
Melo
KAT
Absolutely 0 depth so betting big on health but I think that team could take the warriors to 6-7.
I think that team actually has a decent shot at beating the Warriors. Key is D. Butler and Wiggins's D (especially if you can up the effort level on the latter) would really bother the Warriors. I'd love to see it personally.
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I can say pretty definitively having seen him play is that Frank is not NBA ready. I know this was said about KP but that simply wasn't based in reality. KP did work in the #2 league in the world playing significant minutes and putting up numbers. Frank likely SHOULD be force fed minutes but I would be beyond shocked if he's ready for a major role out of the gate.
significant more minutes is a little bit of a tretch he played 3 more minutes a game ans came off the bench...
i agree i dont think he comes in right away and is reasy for minutes but kp came off the bench and only played 21 miknutes a night
KP played 50 games, 21.4 minutes per game for a team in the #2 league in the world putting up 11 and 5, 1 block 1 steal and had played 73 professional games. Frank averaged 5 points and 1.4 assists in the #7 league in the world, c'mon their experience/success isn't particularly close. I'm not shitting on him but KP was doubted mostly because he was "too thin". Being 6'5 is great and all but he's not going to have a physical advantage out of the gate, if anything he will be bullied by stronger grown men.
KP, Willy, Rubio, Frank, Patton, Dieng solid young core.
That's absurd. Go look at the roster. It's guys who couldn't even make the Dleague.
G 6 France Lacombe, Paul 1.95 m (6 ft 5 in) 86 kg (190 lb) 27 – 12 June 1990
SG 8 Poland Slaughter, A. J. 1.91 m (6 ft 3 in) 80 kg (176 lb) 29 – 3 August 1987
F 9 France Leloup, Jérémy 2.02 m (6 ft 8 in) 89 kg (196 lb) 30 – 31 January 1987
G/F 10 France Sy, Pape 2.01 m (6 ft 7 in) 99 kg (218 lb) 29 – 5 April 1988
PG 11 United States Walker, Erving 1.73 m (5 ft 8 in) 80 kg (176 lb) 27 – 17 January 1990
C 14 France Jaiteh, Mouhammadou 2.08 m (6 ft 10 in) 105 kg (231 lb) 22 – 27 November 1994
PF 16 France Cortale, Olivier 2.07 m (6 ft 9 in) 102 kg (225 lb) 20 – 16 March 1997
PG 22 France Ntilikina, Frank 1.93 m (6 ft 4 in) 74 kg (163 lb) 18 – 28 July 1998
PF 24 Republic of Macedonia Travis, Romeo 2.01 m (6 ft 7 in) 102 kg (225 lb) 32 – 10 December 1984
PF 33 Finland Murphy, Erik 2.08 m (6 ft 10 in) 105 kg (231 lb) 26 – 26 October 1990
PF 54 United States Howard, Matt 2.03 m (6 ft 8 in) 104 kg (229 lb) 28 – 23 January 1989
KP, Willy, Rubio, Frank, Patton, Dieng solid young core.
I am calling Melo now to tell him to pack his bags.
KP, Willy, Rubio, Frank, Patton, Dieng solid young core.
Looks like a 18-20 win team to me. Perfect.
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In comment 13509283 DanMetroMan said:
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I can say pretty definitively having seen him play is that Frank is not NBA ready. I know this was said about KP but that simply wasn't based in reality. KP did work in the #2 league in the world playing significant minutes and putting up numbers. Frank likely SHOULD be force fed minutes but I would be beyond shocked if he's ready for a major role out of the gate.
significant more minutes is a little bit of a tretch he played 3 more minutes a game ans came off the bench...
i agree i dont think he comes in right away and is reasy for minutes but kp came off the bench and only played 21 miknutes a night
KP played 50 games, 21.4 minutes per game for a team in the #2 league in the world putting up 11 and 5, 1 block 1 steal and had played 73 professional games. Frank averaged 5 points and 1.4 assists in the #7 league in the world, c'mon their experience/success isn't particularly close. I'm not shitting on him but KP was doubted mostly because he was "too thin". Being 6'5 is great and all but he's not going to have a physical advantage out of the gate, if anything he will be bullied by stronger grown men.
i agree he wont come in right away i said that..
i am just saying there wasnt a lot to go on with kp either...