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NFT: 6/23 Knicks Thread: The Day After

Jon in NYC : 6/23/2017 5:55 am
Very solid draft for the Knicks. I give it a solid B. I know most of you don't love Frank, but I think we'll be very happy with what he provides long term.

Since we've beaten the Frank talk to death, I thought it would be helpful to talk about some other guys and look at the roster construction.

With their first 2nd rounder, they took Damyean Dotson.

6'6, 44% 3PT shooter, solid athlete, seems to have upside as a passer and defender. Major knocks are that he's already 23 and has limited shot creating ability. Seems like he could step into the role Justin Holiday had.

With their second 2nd, they took Ognjen Jaramaz

Seems to be a plus athlete with good size and handle, but a subpar shooter. Probably unlikely he plays in the NBA next year but who knows.

They also signed Nigel Hayes who I think has a real shot at making the team. Smart kid, good passer, rebounder, defender. Can't shoot a lick. Good 15th man, good locker room presence.

And Luke Kornet, who seems to be able to shoot and block shots, but do practically nothing else. Apparently he signed a two way contract, so they can just bring him back and forth between NYK and Westchester? I'm honestly not quite sure how these things work. It's a new rule I believe.

Here's a crack at the current depth chart:

C. Willy/Noah/KOQ/Plumlee
PF. KP/Lance/Ndour
SF. Melo/Kuz/Hayes
SG. Lee/Dotson
PG. Frank/Randle

Woof. That is one trashy NBA roster. But that's okay.

Next step has to be moving Melo imo. Rebuild around a KP/Frank/Willy core, tank, and use the next top pick they get to bring on a high profile scorer.


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RE: That team won't compete with teh Warriors, stop.  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2017 11:05 am : link
In comment 13509321 Keith said:
Quote:
They look good on paper, but they'd give up 400 pts a night and do they really fit well together?


How? CP3 and butler are all defensive 1st team players. KAT and wiggins both project to be elite in time, and certainly would benefit from having the two former in the lineup. Melo is really the only oddball defensive fit.
RE: That team won't compete with teh Warriors, stop.  
Ash_3 : 6/23/2017 11:05 am : link
In comment 13509321 Keith said:
Quote:
They look good on paper, but they'd give up 400 pts a night and do they really fit well together?


There are questions about frontcourt defense with that team, but otherwise you're just saying stuff without making an argument.
not sure if below is serious or not  
Pep22 : 6/23/2017 11:06 am : link
but one would think w/ both Levine and Dunn gone, Minny is hitching their wagon to Rubio at PG
and other than Miami  
Pep22 : 6/23/2017 11:08 am : link
and the remote possibility of CLE...it looks like a lock that Melo stays or is bought out (meaning no incoming assets for him)
Not saying that team would be elite off the bat  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2017 11:14 am : link
But thibs has built top 3 defenses around Derrick Rose and Carlos boozer. And when rose was out it was Nate Robinson, Augustine, or Aaron brooks and the D never faltered.

It would certainly be better than the Cavs defense. Lebron was the only plus defender against the warriors. You get butler on KD and Cp3 on curry. That already is better. Melo will be as useful/useless as Love. Then KAT and wiggins, 2 fantastic athletes that have all the necessary tools.
first game of summer league  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2017 11:15 am : link
smith jr vs frank
RE: first game of summer league  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2017 11:17 am : link
In comment 13509336 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
smith jr vs frank


Date?
Without  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2017 11:21 am : link
stepping on anyones toes KOQ defends his boy KP and his decision to skip the exit interview (KOQ also looks to be in great shape)
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: first game of summer league  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2017 11:21 am : link
In comment 13509337 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13509336 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


smith jr vs frank



Date?


july 1st 3pm
RE: Not saying that team would be elite off the bat  
Keith : 6/23/2017 11:29 am : link
In comment 13509334 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
But thibs has built top 3 defenses around Derrick Rose and Carlos boozer. And when rose was out it was Nate Robinson, Augustine, or Aaron brooks and the D never faltered.

It would certainly be better than the Cavs defense. Lebron was the only plus defender against the warriors. You get butler on KD and Cp3 on curry. That already is better. Melo will be as useful/useless as Love. Then KAT and wiggins, 2 fantastic athletes that have all the necessary tools.


Those guys may be good defenders at some point, but they aren't yet. CP3 is going to age fast. He had microfracture and he also had Jordan behind him. Does he have another year? Maybe, but he won't have Jordan to protect him. Melo is a brutally bad defender. Last point...is this a 5 on 5 game or is the bench factored in?
KOQ officially on the trading block with that KP endorsement.  
bceagle05 : 6/23/2017 11:29 am : link
Phil wants the Brooklyn pick from Boston.
I freaking  
Jon in NYC : 6/23/2017 11:31 am : link
love KOQ.

I just wish he was a smidge better at everything.
RE: RE: Not saying that team would be elite off the bat  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2017 11:31 am : link
In comment 13509345 Keith said:
Quote:
In comment 13509334 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


But thibs has built top 3 defenses around Derrick Rose and Carlos boozer. And when rose was out it was Nate Robinson, Augustine, or Aaron brooks and the D never faltered.

It would certainly be better than the Cavs defense. Lebron was the only plus defender against the warriors. You get butler on KD and Cp3 on curry. That already is better. Melo will be as useful/useless as Love. Then KAT and wiggins, 2 fantastic athletes that have all the necessary tools.



Those guys may be good defenders at some point, but they aren't yet. CP3 is going to age fast. He had microfracture and he also had Jordan behind him. Does he have another year? Maybe, but he won't have Jordan to protect him. Melo is a brutally bad defender. Last point...is this a 5 on 5 game or is the bench factored in?


It is, which is still why I would take the Warriors, but to me that team is certainly better than the Cavs, Rockets or Spurs (better defensively than both houston and Cleveland at that).

Love is a brutally bad defender. JR was this year. Kyrie is a liability. KAT is better than TT already and should be a lot better over the next few years.

Age is certainly a factor though.
I don't disagree that they'd match up with Cle,  
Keith : 6/23/2017 11:34 am : link
but GSW just abused Cle. That team would probably get swept as well.
RE: I don't disagree that they'd match up with Cle,  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2017 11:40 am : link
In comment 13509358 Keith said:
Quote:
but GSW just abused Cle. That team would probably get swept as well.


Eh, I'd staunchly disagree. That team would have 1 more all star and Melo is a significantly better 5th option compared to TT. KAT, Butler, and CP3 are 3 all NBA caliber players already.
There's a better chance of me curing cancer this afternoon  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/23/2017 11:41 am : link
than 'Melo waiving his NTC & going to Minny. That ain't happening.
Frank  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2017 11:45 am : link
feed
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Frank  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2017 12:00 pm : link
In comment 13509372 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
feed Link - ( New Window )


thank you dan
Pau Gasol  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2017 12:01 pm : link
Would be a cheap, short term option for thibs as well.
RE: Pau Gasol  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2017 12:02 pm : link
In comment 13509385 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
Would be a cheap, short term option for thibs as well.


Pau supposedly has a verbal agreement with the Spurs
.  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2017 12:04 pm : link
Ian Begley‏ @IanBegley 4m4 minute.s ago
More
Florida's Canyon Barry will play with the Knicks' Summer League team in Orlando, per league sources.
Canyon  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2017 12:07 pm : link
Barry article
Link - ( New Window )
Melo  
TyreeHelmet : 6/23/2017 12:08 pm : link
I don't think he goes to Minny but it's not absurd. Thibs loves Carmelo. Look up what he's said about him in the past. And Melo wanted Thibs in NY. I still fully expect Melo to be bought out.

And I don't but Frenchys team beating UNC by 40. Frishcilla is full of it.
Trade  
TyreeHelmet : 6/23/2017 12:25 pm : link
Not a criticism but what was the last trade the Knicks made? Hasn't been one in over a year.

Any one remember what the last one was?
RE: Trade  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2017 12:27 pm : link
In comment 13509421 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
Not a criticism but what was the last trade the Knicks made? Hasn't been one in over a year.

Any one remember what the last one was?


Rose?
RE: Trade  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2017 12:27 pm : link
In comment 13509421 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
Not a criticism but what was the last trade the Knicks made? Hasn't been one in over a year.

Any one remember what the last one was?


6/23/2016, Knicks trade for Derrick Rose, wow today is exactly 1 year
last one was the trade for Rose  
Greg from LI : 6/23/2017 12:28 pm : link
Made exactly one year before yesterday.
RE: RE: That team won't compete with teh Warriors, stop.  
giants#1 : 6/23/2017 12:28 pm : link
In comment 13509325 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13509321 Keith said:


Quote:


They look good on paper, but they'd give up 400 pts a night and do they really fit well together?



How? CP3 and butler are all defensive 1st team players. KAT and wiggins both project to be elite in time, and certainly would benefit from having the two former in the lineup. Melo is really the only oddball defensive fit.


And you can just hide Melo on Zaza or whoever they run out there at the 5. Put KAT on Green.
and the last trade before Rose was KOQ  
Greg from LI : 6/23/2017 12:30 pm : link
Three trades in two years - last trade before KOQ was THJ for Grant.
only way Melo goes to MN  
giants#1 : 6/23/2017 12:32 pm : link
is if he makes a deal with CP3 for them to both end up there somehow. I don't see him approving a deal to play with Butler/KAT/Wiggins.
Hmm...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/23/2017 1:02 pm : link
Adam Kaufman‏Verified account
@AdamMKaufman
Take this FWIW: Hearing #Celtics in position to deal 4 George with 3-yr ext in place, but will depend on signing Hayward 1st. Lotsa dominos.

We just have to trust Phil and the scouts on Frank  
Vanzetti : 6/23/2017 1:09 pm : link
None of us know anything about him other than the brief video we all saw.

And those of you who are pretending you know about him are completely full of it. You do not.

I was not that impressed with what I saw on tape other than his ability to stay in front of his man. But how quick are the guys he was guarding. But still glad we got a guy who plays defense.

I think the 7 foot wingspan is also a big plus. If he gets stronger, he will have the length to be a plus rebounder for a guard and will definitely be a plus shot blocker at that position. With all the three pointers having a guard with that big a wing span can lead to some altered shots.

I liked Smith and Monk at #8 but maybe this kid will have the higher ceiling longterm.

RE: We just have to trust Phil and the scouts on Frank  
giantsfan44ab : 6/23/2017 1:14 pm : link
In comment 13509548 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
None of us know anything about him other than the brief video we all saw.

And those of you who are pretending you know about him are completely full of it. You do not.

I was not that impressed with what I saw on tape other than his ability to stay in front of his man. But how quick are the guys he was guarding. But still glad we got a guy who plays defense.

I think the 7 foot wingspan is also a big plus. If he gets stronger, he will have the length to be a plus rebounder for a guard and will definitely be a plus shot blocker at that position. With all the three pointers having a guard with that big a wing span can lead to some altered shots.

I liked Smith and Monk at #8 but maybe this kid will have the higher ceiling longterm.


No, YOU do not.
so many people jump to hard and fast conclusions  
PhilSimms15 : 6/23/2017 1:56 pm : link
Everyone on this board is relying on what the "experts" say about Frank N and I doubt anyone on BBI has actually watched on game from start to finish.

I'm in the same boat -- watched clips, read a lot, will watch the championship game -- but I am impressed with Frank's intangibles, his size and length, and the quality of play he has been competing in.

From various write-ups and film on Frank:

1. is reputed to have a very high BB IQ, even at 18
2. Has exceptionally long reach and very large hands
3. Is emerging as a very good shooter, was 42% from 3 land this year.
4. Is reputed to be a gym rat, and an exceptionally hard worker
5. Even the ESPN analysis had his ceiling as an "all star" higher than anyone else in the draft.
6. He is only 18, he will get bigger, stronger, and possibly longer.

And keep in mind, the Knicks picked sixth, not third. Monk had his warts (really light and small, short wingspan, poor defensive) and Smith (poor teammate, no defense, iced out teammates, team was horrible, had one major knee injury already)

While its no lock, Frank has the chance to be a very very good pro.
Whats this rumor about a 5 team deal in place  
Keith : 6/23/2017 2:07 pm : link
to deal Melo to Cle that was nixed because nobody would take love??
Steven A breaks some news  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/23/2017 2:07 pm : link
There had been a trade in the works where Cleveland would have acquired Paul George AND Melo.

Five teams involved, didn't give many specifics, but said nobody wanted to take Kevin Love's contract, Melo was hesitant, and David Griffin getting fired threw a wrench in it.
Melo was hesitant?  
bceagle05 : 6/23/2017 2:12 pm : link
I respect his family complications, but goddamn. You have a couple of prime years left and you're gonna pass up a chance to play with Lebron, Paul George and Kyrie Irving?? That's a guaranteed trip to the Finals and a legit shot at a championship.
All  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2017 2:14 pm : link
Due respect but the mere fact they would say he has the highest ceiling is absurd and not in line with the facts or what any scouts, articles, experts have stated. Who has the highest ceiling is debatable... Fultz? Isaac? DSJ? But to say Franks is the highest is silly and places silly expectations on his upside (and I say that fully understanding he has plenty of room to improve and grow)
is this true?  
nygiants16 : 6/23/2017 2:21 pm : link
stephan a claims san antonio offered kawhi for kp?
RE: is this true?  
Jon in NYC : 6/23/2017 2:21 pm : link
In comment 13509718 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
stephan a claims san antonio offered kawhi for kp?



hahahhaa gtfo
I  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2017 2:21 pm : link
can't believe you guys are believing outlandish claims from SAS of all people. A proven liar.
Im only asking because I don't know  
Keith : 6/23/2017 2:23 pm : link
and I don't need you to post various articles and tweets, your words will do just fine......what has he been proven to lie about?
For  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2017 2:25 pm : link
whomever asked about the triangle fit for Frank, the way it was explained to me is that the 1 and 2 have to be able to do both roles within the offense so a "tweener" (not in a bad way, but a guy who can do both) is a better fit than a pure 1.
RE: is this true?  
Anakim : 6/23/2017 2:26 pm : link
In comment 13509718 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
stephan a claims san antonio offered kawhi for kp?


No way. No fucking way.
RE: Im only asking because I don't know  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2017 2:26 pm : link
In comment 13509723 Keith said:
Quote:
and I don't need you to post various articles and tweets, your words will do just fine......what has he been proven to lie about?


For one he claims Durant told friends he was going to the Lakers

"Anthony Slater ✔ @anthonyVslater
Kevin Durant on the Lakers rumors: "I don't talk to Stephen A Smith at all. No one in my family, my friends do. So he's lying.""
He  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2017 2:28 pm : link
just called Frank a terrible pick by the way (which is a good thing since he said the same about KP).
-  
DanMetroMan : 6/23/2017 2:29 pm : link
"He'll be just fine. Opening night, Kobe Bryant is going to miss it because [his] foot is sprained? Are y'all crazy? N---a please."
His comments blew up into national news story when the video of his comment began circulating on the web. Naturally, he handled it in a way that only Stephen A. couldor would...

Instead of issuing a simple innocuous apology for saying the thing we all heard him say, he completely denied saying the thing we all heard him say. Or he could have just said, "I said it, I'm not sorry."
RE: He  
Anakim : 6/23/2017 2:30 pm : link
In comment 13509729 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
just called Frank a terrible pick by the way (which is a good thing since he said the same about KP).


THE WORST PICK SINCE SLAVA MEDVEDENKO
Not that I'm caping for Steven A, but that's not what I'd call proof.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 6/23/2017 2:30 pm : link
The two of them don't have a good relationship, so if either one was telling the truth, the other would still say it's a lie.
RE: For  
mavric : 6/23/2017 2:31 pm : link
In comment 13509725 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
whomever asked about the triangle fit for Frank, the way it was explained to me is that the 1 and 2 have to be able to do both roles within the offense so a "tweener" (not in a bad way, but a guy who can do both) is a better fit than a pure 1.


That's part of it (as far as my understanding of it goes), but it also requires a faster pace of play and lots more passing, constantly moving the ball. Pick-n-rolls are not the main objective as it is for most teams and instead a lot of constant ball movement until a shooter is wide open. Hence, a point guard who can cleanly distribute the ball and is also a tenacious defender is better suited than the traditional PG being the QB of the team and taking a lot of shots by fancy play and getting open themselves and then doing little in defense.

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