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NFT: The slow, secret death of the six-string electric guitar..

Tom from LI : 6/23/2017 8:37 am
So I saw this article in the Washington Post and I have been thinking this all along..

Who are the guitar heroes that the millennials admire? I can't think of any.. the only ones I think of are from my generation.

100 years in the future.. kids will be asking their dad's whats an electric guitar?
Slow Death of the Electric Guitar - ( New Window )
there are some....  
BronxBombers : 6/23/2017 8:45 am : link
you have DMB, John Mayer, clapton, cobain, prince...the problem with music is they are really musicians anymore...
RE: there are some....  
Chris in Philly : 6/23/2017 8:49 am : link
In comment 13509082 BronxBombers said:
Quote:
you have DMB, John Mayer, clapton, cobain, prince...the problem with music is they are really musicians anymore...


Millenials like those guys? Jack White maybe. Not those guys.
RE: there are some....  
Tom from LI : 6/23/2017 8:50 am : link
In comment 13509082 BronxBombers said:
Quote:
you have DMB, John Mayer, clapton, cobain, prince...the problem with music is they are really musicians anymore...


You're right.. but they are not making kids run to the music store wanting to buy a guitar like EVH did in his hey day..

I graduated in 85.. I started with the guitar in 1980 after hearing EVH play for my first time.. Every teenage boy back then took up guitar for a time because of him..

There is nobody here doing that with the kids these days..

Millenials  
superspynyg : 6/23/2017 9:08 am : link
will be the cause of several industries failing.

The electric guitar will never die...  
x meadowlander : 6/23/2017 9:10 am : link
...simply because it offers a means of expression no other instrument can recreate.

Yes, the 'BIG BANG' of the 60's created a couple of generations of players, but just because modern music offers different means of performance and productions, doesn't mean the guitar will die - it just won't always be front and center as it was in pop music of the last 60 years.

Yes, guitar manufacturers are in trouble, and the bigger companies are seeing what can only be described as a troubled future.

I've done my part. Took my middle son for his first electric guitar lesson yesterday. Bought him a nice Squier Strat for Christmas - kid already plays flute and bass, so he has a leg up.

But interestingly - I asked him, his teacher asked him - "what players do you like, who would you want to emulate?" There was no quick answer. After some prodding, 'maybe Metallica, maybe Pink Floyd'.

So for those of us who DO play, be happy. All this means is that each year, as boomers die, their stock of axes gets released, flooding the market with used guitars, while manufacturers continue to make better guitars cheaper.

BUYERS market for us players. :)

The quality $300 can buy these days is remarkable.
People have been predicting the death of rock and roll for decades  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 6/23/2017 9:29 am : link
Instrument use may change but guitar, bass and drums arent going anywhere. It isnt all Daft Punk.
Probably nothing to do with guitar.  
Rick5 : 6/23/2017 9:35 am : link
Sales are way down for pianos too. I wouldn't be surprised if the same is true for all instruments. It will cycle back around. There will always be a segment of the population interested in being able to play real instruments.
Rock and Roll is dead.......  
Reb8thVA : 6/23/2017 9:54 am : link
Doesn't mean that there isn't good music being made by newer musicians, but the rebellious energy that fueled the music and the mythos is gone. It's all corporate now.
I don't think  
lugnut : 6/23/2017 9:57 am : link
there's been a guitar hero in nearly 30 years -- EVH and SRV, and you can sunset those guys by 1990 (SRV for obvious reasons). I just wonder if the instrument has been maxed out by now -- have all the sounds that can be made from it already been made?

That said, I think Derek Trucks is a fantastic player who's still producing (if he's not a hero to the kids by now, he probably won't be). Do yourself a favor and listen to a live version of Midnight in Harlem -- his work is amazingly beautiful, and I don't apply "beauty" to the electric guitar except for, well, Duane Allman.
Prog is loaded with young guitar players  
viggie : 6/23/2017 10:04 am : link
Richard henshall ( haken) , Dave kilmeister , the guys from between the buried and me , and Felix Martin among so many others .
RE: The electric guitar will never die...  
Rick5 : 6/23/2017 10:06 am : link
In comment 13509127 x meadowlander said:
Quote:

So for those of us who DO play, be happy. All this means is that each year, as boomers die, their stock of axes gets released, flooding the market with used guitars, while manufacturers continue to make better guitars cheaper.

BUYERS market for us players. :)

That wouldn't surprise me (but I am not giving away my '77 Les Paul custom). :) If the piano market is any parallel, you can get some ridiculous deals now. I just bought a mint condition 1990 Baldwin Acrosonic console piano for $1200 for my daughter with delivery included. The second I showed any interest at all, the store dropped the price from $1900 to $1200. The piano tuner was just here and told me these usually sell for over $2,000 used. I am sure a new one would have been $5K plus back in the day in today's dollars. I haven't been in the market for a guitar in a very long time, but I may be looking for a new archtop in the fall. I am interested to see what I can find as I may offer my '99 Heritage H-575 in a trade.
RE: I don't think  
KingBlue : 6/23/2017 10:28 am : link
In comment 13509206 lugnut said:
Quote:
there's been a guitar hero in nearly 30 years -- EVH and SRV, and you can sunset those guys by 1990 (SRV for obvious reasons). I just wonder if the instrument has been maxed out by now -- have all the sounds that can be made from it already been made?

That said, I think Derek Trucks is a fantastic player who's still producing (if he's not a hero to the kids by now, he probably won't be). Do yourself a favor and listen to a live version of Midnight in Harlem -- his work is amazingly beautiful, and I don't apply "beauty" to the electric guitar except for, well, Duane Allman.


How about Slash?
Cello is the new go to  
gtt350 : 6/23/2017 10:37 am : link
see Tina Guo
If this guy was more main stream  
viggie : 6/23/2017 10:43 am : link
He would be high up on the list
Felix Martin - ( New Window )
RE: RE: I don't think  
x meadowlander : 6/23/2017 10:48 am : link
In comment 13509262 KingBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 13509206 lugnut said:


Quote:


there's been a guitar hero in nearly 30 years -- EVH and SRV, and you can sunset those guys by 1990 (SRV for obvious reasons). I just wonder if the instrument has been maxed out by now -- have all the sounds that can be made from it already been made?

That said, I think Derek Trucks is a fantastic player who's still producing (if he's not a hero to the kids by now, he probably won't be). Do yourself a favor and listen to a live version of Midnight in Harlem -- his work is amazingly beautiful, and I don't apply "beauty" to the electric guitar except for, well, Duane Allman.



How about Slash?
Definitely a guitar hero, but made his mark almost 30 years ago.

I think Annie Clark is a good example of a modern, cutting edge player, doing things in a really unique manner.

The point is, when I was in High School in the early 80's, there absolutely were 3 or 4 guys who could play 'Eruption' or 'Crazy Train' - Charvels, Jackson's and Kramer's were flying off the shelves - kids were even doing tape jobs to make their guitars look exactly like Eddie's.

I just don't see that anymore. Not at all.
The War on Drugs  
BronxBob : 6/23/2017 10:53 am : link
First album 2008; new album - with this song - next month. I have never seen a configuration like this before: 5 guitars, a drummer, and three keyboards. It's an interesting debate, but lulls in Rock 'n Roll have tended to produce sharp backlash to core principles. I guess we'll see ...
The War on Drugs: Holding On - ( New Window )
In related news ...  
BronxBob : 6/23/2017 11:06 am : link
... my sister-in-law was telling us last night that in the first-grade class she has just released for the summer, no one understood the most basic rules/goals of baseball - in a kickball context. So if they're not dancing to rock 'n roll years from now, they probably won't be at a baseball game, either.
there are a bunch of kids who can play  
Justlurking : 6/23/2017 11:14 am : link
Lots of good young bands out there. This kid is the next big thing though.
taz - ( New Window )
Jack white and Gary Clark Jr immediately come to mind.  
Giants Fan in Steelers Land : 6/23/2017 11:34 am : link
The War on Drugs
Kurt Vile
Tame Impala
Car Seat Headrest
Japandroids
Cloud Nothings

People always say rock is dead it's a cliche. It's just not as mainstream but it lives on and will continue to
Some have already  
Rick5 : 6/23/2017 11:54 am : link
mentioned this, but I think it works the other way around. It's not that there aren't tons of great players, it's just that "guitar god" music is no longer as popular so we don't hear about them. It works the same way in other genres. Plenty of people have heard of Joe Pass, but few have heard of great young players like Lage Lund because very, very few people listen to jazz these days. If music in the style of VH became popular again, all of a sudden there would be well-known young players.
RE: Some have already  
x meadowlander : 6/23/2017 11:59 am : link
In comment 13509376 Rick5 said:
Quote:
mentioned this, but I think it works the other way around. It's not that there aren't tons of great players, it's just that "guitar god" music is no longer as popular so we don't hear about them. It works the same way in other genres. Plenty of people have heard of Joe Pass, but few have heard of great young players like Lage Lund because very, very few people listen to jazz these days. If music in the style of VH became popular again, all of a sudden there would be well-known young players.
It's also that the wheel has largely been invented. We've got 60 years of Rock and Roll behind us, and there really aren't many 'firsts' left for guitar - virtually every great modern player has a 'sounds like' tag adhered to them. Most of it has all been done already.

If I'm wrong about that, please! Share links!!
An instrument isn't "dead" until  
Mr. Bungle : 6/23/2017 12:06 pm : link
nobody plays it anymore. And the electric guitar is still widely used in young bands.

Just because the era of the guitar solo reached a zenith of self-indulgence and absurdity and then ended, it doesn't mean anything good has died.

The application of the electric guitar has (thankfully) shifted toward songwriting and performance collaboration.
Not necessarily a prodigy or virtuoso  
ChaChing : 6/23/2017 12:23 pm : link
But I am now forever a Black Keys fan, and Dan Auerbach between them, his solo stuff and the Arcs...all pretty awesome guitar work. Also lots of modern elements with fx even electronic / synthy sounds, but the roots come from pretty straightforward blues. Always well produced

One of the few (like many named above, huge Jack fan here as well) who still gets phenomenal tones and expressions even from simple even repetitive licks. Been digging both "Cold Companion" and "Watch Your Step" by The Arcs last couple weeks

Also similar is Leopold & His Fiction. Tho I can't speak to overall guitar work since it's new to me, "I'm Caving In" and "Cowboy" are a couple great tunes with awesome blues rock tones & riffs. Love the dudes pipes too, ripping, screamy, raw...good stuff
They said the same thing about  
River : 6/23/2017 12:27 pm : link
Classical Music and Opera.
maybe I'm old and out of touch  
fkap : 6/23/2017 12:28 pm : link
but don't almost all bands have guitarists? maybe not those rave bands (a joke to show my age), but pretty much every other band?

just because a major guitar manufacturer is losing share doesn't mean an instrument is dead.
RE: They said the same thing about  
x meadowlander : 6/23/2017 1:07 pm : link
In comment 13509426 River said:
Quote:
Classical Music and Opera.
And DISCO!
OK, that kinda died.
again, being an old geezer,  
fkap : 6/23/2017 1:29 pm : link
didn't disco morph into hip hop/rave/ electronic music/whatever they call it these days?

I hear Donna Summer I need love and I hear the roots of any rave/electronic music (caveat: I don't hear much rave/electronic music). I think the same thing when I hear M Funky town.

Bottom line, no music style ever goes away, it just slides into a new groove.
RE: again, being an old geezer,  
x meadowlander : 6/23/2017 1:32 pm : link
In comment 13509604 fkap said:
Quote:
didn't disco morph into hip hop/rave/ electronic music/whatever they call it these days?

I hear Donna Summer I need love and I hear the roots of any rave/electronic music (caveat: I don't hear much rave/electronic music). I think the same thing when I hear M Funky town.

Bottom line, no music style ever goes away, it just slides into a new groove.
Well, yeah - this goes back to what I said earlier - seems like we're outta new styles, everything is a re-hash of something else. Most new styles or artists have a 'sounds like' implied.

And there's nothing wrong with that - I absolutely LOVE the fusion, the freshness and the complexity of a lot of newer bands.

But back to the OP, yeah - the days of the lone Hendrix/Clapton/Page/Beck/Gilmour guitar god are long gone.
..  
Named Later : 6/23/2017 1:32 pm : link
I have a new-found respect for Jack White as a guitarist and a musician. He produced that PBS show "American Epic" about the Direct to Disc Recording sessions. One of the segments was with Elton John. Bernie Taupin had just brought in a sheet of Lyrics for a new song "Two Fingers of Whiskey" -- no Key Signature, no Notes whatsoever....just the words.

Jack and Elton worked out the Piano and Guitar parts, and the vocal phrasing right there in the studio. Jack improvised the backing vocal and they did one take -- Direct to Disk.

Fascinating to see these two musicians at work....




Two Fingers of Whiskey - ( New Window )
RE: maybe I'm old and out of touch  
Tom from LI : 6/23/2017 2:00 pm : link
In comment 13509431 fkap said:
Quote:
but don't almost all bands have guitarists? maybe not those rave bands (a joke to show my age), but pretty much every other band?

just because a major guitar manufacturer is losing share doesn't mean an instrument is dead.


its not the manufacturer Guitar Center and Sam Ash are in the red big time...

Guitar Manufacturers are now building their guitars with cheap labor but still charging adsorbent prices.

I looked at an Ibanez JEM77WDP Steve Vai Signature "Woody" and that is 1700 bucks and made in Indonesia. Indonesia?!?!? GTFO .. its a money grab for the manufacturers ... cheap labor and they raise the prices to consumers..
RE: RE: maybe I'm old and out of touch  
Mike in Marin : 6/23/2017 2:50 pm : link
In comment 13509678 Tom from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13509431 fkap said:


Quote:


but don't almost all bands have guitarists? maybe not those rave bands (a joke to show my age), but pretty much every other band?

just because a major guitar manufacturer is losing share doesn't mean an instrument is dead.



its not the manufacturer Guitar Center and Sam Ash are in the red big time...

Guitar Manufacturers are now building their guitars with cheap labor but still charging adsorbent prices.

I looked at an Ibanez JEM77WDP Steve Vai Signature "Woody" and that is 1700 bucks and made in Indonesia. Indonesia?!?!? GTFO .. its a money grab for the manufacturers ... cheap labor and they raise the prices to consumers..


That is true, but it is extremely competitive biz now and their are a thousand guitar manufacturers. Anytime there is any leverage for a signature model, one made with rare tonewoods, custom and hand made instruments, you are going to pay for it. Simple supply and demand.

And the other part of that is that there are many amazingly well-made guitars available for relatively dirt cheap.

You can get a fantastic guitar for a few hundred dollars now.
RE: RE: Some have already  
Rick5 : 6/23/2017 3:31 pm : link
In comment 13509382 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
In comment 13509376 Rick5 said:


Quote:


mentioned this, but I think it works the other way around. It's not that there aren't tons of great players, it's just that "guitar god" music is no longer as popular so we don't hear about them. It works the same way in other genres. Plenty of people have heard of Joe Pass, but few have heard of great young players like Lage Lund because very, very few people listen to jazz these days. If music in the style of VH became popular again, all of a sudden there would be well-known young players.

It's also that the wheel has largely been invented. We've got 60 years of Rock and Roll behind us, and there really aren't many 'firsts' left for guitar - virtually every great modern player has a 'sounds like' tag adhered to them. Most of it has all been done already.

If I'm wrong about that, please! Share links!!

Well in that case you could say almost everything had been done in music hundreds of years ago. How did the violin ever survive past 1800? Van Halen didn't do anything that was harmonically a breakthrough. Hell, he didn't even invent tapping. He was just a great player who emerged during a period when guitar virtuosity was very mainstream among young people. Unfortunately, that's not popular music today, but maybe an emphasis on high-level playing will come back into popular music again at some point. Then the players will be back in the public eye rather than hanging out on Berklee's campus.

I think there's plenty of high level playing  
Motley Two : 6/23/2017 4:01 pm : link
but it's a fine line virtuosity & wankery. Taste & choice is so important, knowing when to dial back, serving the song.

Guys like Randy Rhodes and EVH are awesome, but there were also a lot of guys who tried to continue on that path and push lead guitar more & more and a lot of it just turned into musical masturbation.
RE: I think there's plenty of high level playing  
Rick5 : 6/23/2017 4:26 pm : link
In comment 13509926 Motley Two said:
Quote:
but it's a fine line virtuosity & wankery. Taste & choice is so important, knowing when to dial back, serving the song.

Guys like Randy Rhodes and EVH are awesome, but there were also a lot of guys who tried to continue on that path and push lead guitar more & more and a lot of it just turned into musical masturbation.

I agree, but to me, the bottom line is that none of this stuff is popular among kids today as it was back then, so it shouldn't be surprising that guitar sales are declining. When I was 13, we all loved AC/DC, LZ, Van Halen, etc. Now, as the parent of two 13-year-olds, none of my kids' friends care about anything that even remotely resembles that type of music. It's mostly hip-hop as far as I can tell. My son is a huge Yes fan, but he got that from me, and he's an extreme outlier among all of his friends. Nobody else cares.
I Agree With A Lot of the Above  
Aloha Alan : 6/23/2017 4:35 pm : link
There are still a lot of great and/or interesting guitarists out there.

Below is something I ran into. Fun little nothing video....
Steve Kaynan - ( New Window )
....  
The General : 6/23/2017 6:51 pm : link
There are quite a few young EXTREMELY popular guitar heroes. Progressive Metal has been a thriving sub-genre the past several years.
Tosin Abasi of the band Animals as Leaders is one of the most notorious....

As you can see, a lot of young kids are choosing 7 and 8 sting guitars to get that ultra-beefy guitar tone that is popular in this style of music.
Animals as Leaders - ( New Window )
I don't think this article is accurate  
Sonic Youth : 6/23/2017 7:55 pm : link
Rock music is alive and healthy. Music in general is just fragmented. Math Rock / Post Rock are huge genres, and electric guitar is being used in electronic music as well.

the lines between genres are being blurred. Yes, you don't really have people solo anymore... but the solo has been dead for a while. That kind of took "guitar heroes" with it.

As for current heroes.. I speak for myself personally but it'd be Tosin Abassi and Thomas Erak. Nick Reinhardt of Tera Melos as well. Plenty of great guitarists.

RE: I don't think this article is accurate  
Rick5 : 6/23/2017 10:36 pm : link
In comment 13510194 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
Rock music is alive and healthy. Music in general is just fragmented. Math Rock / Post Rock are huge genres, and electric guitar is being used in electronic music as

Sales are either declining or they aren't. Everything I can find online says that they are declining. How is the article not accurate in that sense?
It is more difficult to chart what is popular with millennials  
moespree : 6/24/2017 12:09 am : link
Due to a number of factors that were never present in decades prior. Less radio, less traditional sales, more streaming, more web based music, etc. But I also think there is plenty of young people who still like rock music and traditional usage of guitars. It's just as mentioned, more difficult track.

There's also some non-traditional usage of guitars out there that they like to. For example, I do know a genre known as synth-wave is gaining rapidly in popularity with this demo and some of the music does rely on guitars. So I don't think they'll ever go away. They may sound different and the way they are used may be different, but I suspect there will always be a place for them.
RE: RE: I don't think this article is accurate  
Sonic Youth : 6/24/2017 12:48 pm : link
In comment 13510333 Rick5 said:
Quote:
In comment 13510194 Sonic Youth said:


Quote:


Rock music is alive and healthy. Music in general is just fragmented. Math Rock / Post Rock are huge genres, and electric guitar is being used in electronic music as



Sales are either declining or they aren't. Everything I can find online says that they are declining. How is the article not accurate in that sense?
Sales are declining because of the way the industry has been restructured.

Everything exists in its own silo nowadays. There isn't much of a common music-based consciousness as there used to be.

RE: It is more difficult to chart what is popular with millennials  
Sonic Youth : 6/24/2017 12:49 pm : link
In comment 13510391 moespree said:
Quote:
Due to a number of factors that were never present in decades prior. Less radio, less traditional sales, more streaming, more web based music, etc. But I also think there is plenty of young people who still like rock music and traditional usage of guitars. It's just as mentioned, more difficult track.

There's also some non-traditional usage of guitars out there that they like to. For example, I do know a genre known as synth-wave is gaining rapidly in popularity with this demo and some of the music does rely on guitars. So I don't think they'll ever go away. They may sound different and the way they are used may be different, but I suspect there will always be a place for them.
Spot on. And there's subgenres that are thriving or have very healthy scenes: pop punk, post-rock, synthwave, folk.

Peopel now have access to many different types of genres at their fingertips. You won't see the "rockstars" of yesteryear, but that doesn't mean the instrument itself will not be around.
there are quite a few current bands  
santacruzom : 6/24/2017 5:38 pm : link
I like that employ at least one electric guitar (usually two or three) but seldom use it to solo. Radiohead, the XX, Warpaint, Phantogram, the National, Best Coast -- you won't often hear any of them solo, but you will usually hear more than one guitar at once.
Market saturation could also be a factor...  
x meadowlander : 6/25/2017 8:52 am : link
...unlike cars or appliances, guitars don't degrade with age. If anything, they improve.

So there is also the question of - has America reached something of a guitar saturation point? 61 years of electric guitar production. That's a lot of axes.
RE: Market saturation could also be a factor...  
santacruzom : 6/26/2017 12:43 am : link
In comment 13510951 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
...unlike cars or appliances, guitars don't degrade with age. If anything, they improve.

So there is also the question of - has America reached something of a guitar saturation point? 61 years of electric guitar production. That's a lot of axes.


I've thought about that as well X. A good majority of those guitars played by the old guitar gods and the legions of people they inspired? They're still around, often in the hands of new owner, with a mystique and "mojo" you'd be hard-pressed to replicate with a brand new instrument. Some of that mojo might be a placebo in some cases -- maybe your average listener couldn't tell the difference between a '58 Telecaster and a brand-new one -- but that's kind of immaterial. If the musician who owns it is affected by that mystique, chances are his playing will be just that much better.

When the practice of selling "relic" guitars became popular a few years back I thought it was utterly ridiculous, the musical instrument equivalent of selling jeans with holes in the knees. But I once picked up a Relic'd Custom Shop Tele at a Guitar Center and was really impressed by how comfortable and just worn-in it felt, played and sounded. I've never played an actual vintage Tele so I can't quite compare, but it certainly felt a bit better than your average new Tele.

Nowadays there are quite a few upper-tier luthiers who build and sell more relic'd Fender and Gibson style-instruments than instruments than look brand-new.
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