Darren Dreger& #8207;Verified account @DarrenDreger
Sounds like another big Arizona trade is in works. Raanta and Stepan likely to Coyotes. 7th overall could be part of it and DeAngelo.
Vanzetti, I think that's a bit of a different discussion and I'm fine saying Stepan isn't one of those guys. But there are only 10-15 of those in the league, IMO.
What's so great? Only 1 year of control, already makes $5m, has cracked 40 points twice in the last 5 years, and averages over a penalty minute per game for his career.
Why should I give a first round pick, let alone add anything??
Dan RosenVerified account @drosennhl
Gorton said he thinks Zibanejad, Hayes are top 6 guys so doesn't mean NYR must get a 1C or 2C to replace Stepan.Doesn't mean they won't tho.
Are far from a finished product. But they gave themselves some much needed cap space and flexibility now. They could move up in the draft with the two number 1's, or parlay one or both in a trade, but they need to parlay this into a top line center. That to me is just as important as improving the defense. The kid they added seems to me to be a player that could be their 3rd pairing right handed defenseman to pair with Staal.
His speed and offensive skills should work well with Staal, he needs it. I would love to sign Smith, him and Skjei make a good 2nd pairing defensemen, and then that leaves the free agent signing of Shattenkirk, they get that done and we have a nice set of defensemen.
If they can turn the #7 and #21 pick into a top line center, then I think this team has improved markedly.
Would Gorton say, he isn't going to tip his hand. But I do like Zibby and Hayes. I see Zibby more as a second line center, although he could develop into a top line center, he is still young and is fast and big. Hayes is more a third line center, but if they are your second and third line centers, then they are good ones for sure. With youngsters like Buchnevich and Vesey to go along with Nash, Zuccarello, Miller, and Kreider we need that center badly in my opinion. Fast and Grabner would round out the wingers, and there is still Puempel, who appears to have some upside. Jensen may get a shot at the 4th line center. But the Rangers now have some flexibility.
Dan RosenVerified account @drosennhl
Gorton said he thinks Zibanejad, Hayes are top 6 guys so doesn't mean NYR must get a 1C or 2C to replace Stepan.Doesn't mean they won't tho.
Did we get a new Hayes or is he referring to Kevin Hayes?
As the #2C, Hayes gets to play with the 2nd line wingers.
I'm FAR from Hayes' biggest fan on this board, but I don't think calling him a 2C is a huge stretch.
Zib + Hayes as a 1-2 is admittedly a little bit weak, but both players should have their best hockey ahead of them. To me, not an unacceptable option for a team that's admittedly trying to reload, get younger, and atone for some past sins while remaining playoff viable.
What's so great? Only 1 year of control, already makes $5m, has cracked 40 points twice in the last 5 years, and averages over a penalty minute per game for his career.
Why should I give a first round pick, let alone add anything??
Staal isnt an add, he's an albatross. It could take a #21 overall just to be rid of his deal.
Are the Rangers serious contenders for Thornton with Stepan gone?
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Tons of action this morning. Hearing Vegas continues to push to move into the top 3 and the NYR may also trade up. Lots of moving parts.
As the #2C, Hayes gets to play with the 2nd line wingers.
I'm FAR from Hayes' biggest fan on this board, but I don't think calling him a 2C is a huge stretch.
Zib + Hayes as a 1-2 is admittedly a little bit weak, but both players should have their best hockey ahead of them. To me, not an unacceptable option for a team that's admittedly trying to reload, get younger, and atone for some past sins while remaining playoff viable.
I'm just trying to figure out what the endgame here is? Re-tooling is one thing, but the problem runs deeper than gaining cap space and trading one player for a comparable one.
We're a team built from the net out with an elite forward and our best player is aging and likely has his best hockey behind him. I just wonder how this team becomes a cup contender.
I'm esp disappointed by DeAngelo. Was suspended 7 games for a second violation of "diversity rule" (he used a slur against a teammate - was immediately sat down by his own coach and then two weeks later suspended by the league...
Was subsequently drafted in 1st round by Tampa - who fairly quickly traded him to Phoenix for a SECOND round pick... he finally made it to the NHL in Nov of this past season and was suspended TWICE by the NHL for losing his cool with officials... and after his first NHL year, Phoenix is sends him onto the Rangers. I dunno. Sounds like a locker room headcase type of guy that teams have repeatedly regretted signing and and looked to move.
What's so great? Only 1 year of control, already makes $5m, has cracked 40 points twice in the last 5 years, and averages over a penalty minute per game for his career.
Why should I give a first round pick, let alone add anything??
Staal isnt an add, he's an albatross. It could take a #21 overall just to be rid of his deal.
Fair enough. That's a deal I do. I was going back and forth between here and HFBoards, so in my head I guess I was refuting a bunch of other stupid Kane-based ideas that I read over there. My bad.
Maybe the Stars trade #3 and one of their goalies for #7?
As the #2C, Hayes gets to play with the 2nd line wingers.
I'm FAR from Hayes' biggest fan on this board, but I don't think calling him a 2C is a huge stretch.
Zib + Hayes as a 1-2 is admittedly a little bit weak, but both players should have their best hockey ahead of them. To me, not an unacceptable option for a team that's admittedly trying to reload, get younger, and atone for some past sins while remaining playoff viable.
I'm just trying to figure out what the endgame here is? Re-tooling is one thing, but the problem runs deeper than gaining cap space and trading one player for a comparable one.
We're a team built from the net out with an elite forward and our best player is aging and likely has his best hockey behind him. I just wonder how this team becomes a cup contender.
I don't think anyone including Gorts could tell you what the end game is right now. I agree 100% with Deej that today was about avoiding another NMC, creating cap space, and getting younger.
On the whole, there's an issue up the middle. There's also almost 1/3 of the cap unspoken for.
If this team were to get realistic steps forward from Buch and Vesey of the magnitude that Miller and Hayes stepped up this year, you're looking at a young forward group that could be a real handful.
That's before adding anything else.
I think Gorts is on the right track. He could absolutely fuck it up, but I don't see any more reason for alarm today than I saw a year ago or 2 years ago.
...if we were looking to move Stepan why the FUCK didn't we protect Lindberg. We just went from being a strong checking/defensive/intangibles(barring our faceoff woes) team up the middle to thin and generally crappy in all regards at the pivotal(pivot) Center position.
This FO is reactive not pro-active, it pre-dates Gorton's ascension as GM but my hopes were he would bring better long term vision and planning to the personnel side of the franchise. It's proving to be the opposite and that's a major blow to our Cup aspirations imo.
So, if my reading the tea leaves is any indication, many NHL teams refused to touch DeAngelo in the first round despite his first round talent because of very big character issues. Tampa took a chance with the 19th pick in the first found - but that was very short lived and Tampa dumped him to Phoenix for a 2nd rounder.
The reddit thread indicates (no proof obviously) that he had similar problems growing up in NJ as did his family overall. Multiple comments that Tampa took a shot but needed to move on because the kid was a racist (I actually had the sense his prior suspensions were for homophobic comments, not racist, but I guess I was wrong).
What is most troubling to me about this is that it speaks volumes about the total package the Rangers received for Stepan and Raanta. A 7th rounder is the primary compensation. It isn't clear DeAngelo adds to the draft pick or is an overall negative moving forward. Would love to see myself rooting for this kid next year. But for now, I am very surprised at the "value" Raanta + Stepan brought (or didn't). Reddit thread when Tampa traded him to Phoenix for 2nd rounder - ( New Window )
...if we were looking to move Stepan why the FUCK didn't we protect Lindberg. We just went from being a strong checking/defensive/intangibles(barring our faceoff woes) team up the middle to thin and generally crappy in all regards at the pivotal(pivot) Center position.
This FO is reactive not pro-active, it pre-dates Gorton's ascension as GM but my hopes were he would bring better long term vision and planning to the personnel side of the franchise. It's proving to be the opposite and that's a major blow to our Cup aspirations imo.
My guess is that if Lindberg were not exposed, LV would have taken Raanta, and perhaps this trade doesn't happen today.
...if we were looking to move Stepan why the FUCK didn't we protect Lindberg. We just went from being a strong checking/defensive/intangibles(barring our faceoff woes) team up the middle to thin and generally crappy in all regards at the pivotal(pivot) Center position.
This FO is reactive not pro-active, it pre-dates Gorton's ascension as GM but my hopes were he would bring better long term vision and planning to the personnel side of the franchise. It's proving to be the opposite and that's a major blow to our Cup aspirations imo.
My guess is that if Lindberg were not exposed, LV would have taken Raanta, and perhaps this trade doesn't happen today.
Answer was easier. We could protect 7 forwards. Nash we had to protect by rule (NMC). The other six were Stepan, Kreider, Zucc, Mika, Miller, and Hayes. All six are more valuable than Lindberg.
why we didn't make this trade a week ago in order to then protect Lindberg in Stepan's spot. But I suspect hoya's reasoning is correct. Then we likely lose Raanta and can't make this deal without him.
The point is they're incompetent if they couldn't find a way to have their cake and eat it too. They've had a year to put contingency plans in place to avoid just this kind of idiocy, yet what are we left with. Zibanajed and Hayes as our 1-2 C combo with no 3rd and 4th line solutions in sight. That's atrocious. And don't spew Hayes 49 points against 3rd line competition in an attempt to swallow today's Ranger Kool Aid.
It was an awful job by the braintrust, such as it is.
but it is also hockey. This is a game where guys are bashing each other's head in. Stuff gets said in the heat of the moment that shouldn't be said. He is also an Italian guy from Jersey. Probably a bit of a youthful hothead. That's the way my people are. He'll learn. We are talking about stuff that happened when he was 18, 19 years old.
I'm not worried about his "character" in the least. In NY he will be back with his family and support network. And now that I have had a chance to watch him some on video, the kid can flat out play.
but it is also hockey. This is a game where guys are bashing each other's head in. Stuff gets said in the heat of the moment that shouldn't be said. He is also an Italian guy from Jersey. Probably a bit of a youthful hothead. That's the way my people are. He'll learn. We are talking about stuff that happened when he was 18, 19 years old.
I'm not worried about his "character" in the least. In NY he will be back with his family and support network. And now that I have had a chance to watch him some on video, the kid can flat out play.
Great deal for Rangers
Yup. That's what Tampa thought too.
RE: RE: These type of slurs have no place anywhere in our society
but it is also hockey. This is a game where guys are bashing each other's head in. Stuff gets said in the heat of the moment that shouldn't be said. He is also an Italian guy from Jersey. Probably a bit of a youthful hothead. That's the way my people are. He'll learn. We are talking about stuff that happened when he was 18, 19 years old.
I'm not worried about his "character" in the least. In NY he will be back with his family and support network. And now that I have had a chance to watch him some on video, the kid can flat out play.
Great deal for Rangers
Yup. That's what Tampa thought too.
Steve Avery? Tie Domi? Donald Brashear?
Let's not pretend the Rangers were a bunch of choir boys.
RE: RE: RE: These type of slurs have no place anywhere in our society
but it is also hockey. This is a game where guys are bashing each other's head in. Stuff gets said in the heat of the moment that shouldn't be said. He is also an Italian guy from Jersey. Probably a bit of a youthful hothead. That's the way my people are. He'll learn. We are talking about stuff that happened when he was 18, 19 years old.
I'm not worried about his "character" in the least. In NY he will be back with his family and support network. And now that I have had a chance to watch him some on video, the kid can flat out play.
Great deal for Rangers
Yup. That's what Tampa thought too.
Steve Avery? Tie Domi? Donald Brashear?
Let's not pretend the Rangers were a bunch of choir boys.
Let's be clear. My primary concern is the value the Rangers received - and value means how many productive games does this kid end up playing for the Rangers and will he end up being more a plus or minus by the end of his rangers' career. Pretty clear to me that he is damaged goods that many teams don't think worthy of an investment. Tampa took a shot and decided he wasn't worth it. You seem to think that means nothing. But they spent a first rounder on him - knowing his history - assuming he would pan out for them. Then they quickly dumped him for a second rounder. There had to be a pretty damn good reason for that. Now Phoenix is moving away from him. Yea, if you ask me, it sound like a really promising situation for the Rangers...
If he is a problem you release hi he is costing nothing, they cleared cap space, have added the 7th pick in the draft, got rid of a HORRIBLE contract in Stepan, and they will upgrade the center position, wait, its not over yet, the return is fine. What do you want for a slow, regressing, overpaid 28 year old.
(used advisedly) and aftermath of the news that Stepan's NMC kicks in next month, so it's more than the $$ cap space used.
A lot of criticism for the picks, Andersson in particular, and I know nada, but the link Kyle (think it was) posted showing some of his scoring plays was fun and impressive; guess one has to take into account the level of competition.
Why should I give a first round pick, let alone add anything??
It's so obvious he's here to Radicalize the Italian Community.
Gorton said he thinks Zibanejad, Hayes are top 6 guys so doesn't mean NYR must get a 1C or 2C to replace Stepan.Doesn't mean they won't tho.
His speed and offensive skills should work well with Staal, he needs it. I would love to sign Smith, him and Skjei make a good 2nd pairing defensemen, and then that leaves the free agent signing of Shattenkirk, they get that done and we have a nice set of defensemen.
If they can turn the #7 and #21 pick into a top line center, then I think this team has improved markedly.
Gorton said he thinks Zibanejad, Hayes are top 6 guys so doesn't mean NYR must get a 1C or 2C to replace Stepan.Doesn't mean they won't tho.
Did we get a new Hayes or is he referring to Kevin Hayes?
Kevin Hayes as a 2nd line C is laughable
I'm FAR from Hayes' biggest fan on this board, but I don't think calling him a 2C is a huge stretch.
Zib + Hayes as a 1-2 is admittedly a little bit weak, but both players should have their best hockey ahead of them. To me, not an unacceptable option for a team that's admittedly trying to reload, get younger, and atone for some past sins while remaining playoff viable.
Need him to be better than that this year
I'm more worried/puzzled as to why Kreider isn't consistently a beast.
Why should I give a first round pick, let alone add anything??
Staal isnt an add, he's an albatross. It could take a #21 overall just to be rid of his deal.
I'd have preferred getting someone like Strome from ARZ over the 7th.
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Tons of action this morning. Hearing Vegas continues to push to move into the top 3 and the NYR may also trade up. Lots of moving parts.
@DarrenDreger
Tons of action this morning. Hearing Vegas continues to push to move into the top 3 and the NYR may also trade up. Lots of moving parts.
I'm FAR from Hayes' biggest fan on this board, but I don't think calling him a 2C is a huge stretch.
Zib + Hayes as a 1-2 is admittedly a little bit weak, but both players should have their best hockey ahead of them. To me, not an unacceptable option for a team that's admittedly trying to reload, get younger, and atone for some past sins while remaining playoff viable.
I'm just trying to figure out what the endgame here is? Re-tooling is one thing, but the problem runs deeper than gaining cap space and trading one player for a comparable one.
We're a team built from the net out with an elite forward and our best player is aging and likely has his best hockey behind him. I just wonder how this team becomes a cup contender.
I'm esp disappointed by DeAngelo. Was suspended 7 games for a second violation of "diversity rule" (he used a slur against a teammate - was immediately sat down by his own coach and then two weeks later suspended by the league...
Was subsequently drafted in 1st round by Tampa - who fairly quickly traded him to Phoenix for a SECOND round pick... he finally made it to the NHL in Nov of this past season and was suspended TWICE by the NHL for losing his cool with officials... and after his first NHL year, Phoenix is sends him onto the Rangers. I dunno. Sounds like a locker room headcase type of guy that teams have repeatedly regretted signing and and looked to move.
Skjei-Smith
Bereglazov-DeAngelo
Kampfer
Klein retires.
Find a way to trade Staal. Any way. Please. Trade Holden.
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What's so great? Only 1 year of control, already makes $5m, has cracked 40 points twice in the last 5 years, and averages over a penalty minute per game for his career.
Why should I give a first round pick, let alone add anything??
Staal isnt an add, he's an albatross. It could take a #21 overall just to be rid of his deal.
Fair enough. That's a deal I do. I was going back and forth between here and HFBoards, so in my head I guess I was refuting a bunch of other stupid Kane-based ideas that I read over there. My bad.
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As the #2C, Hayes gets to play with the 2nd line wingers.
I'm FAR from Hayes' biggest fan on this board, but I don't think calling him a 2C is a huge stretch.
Zib + Hayes as a 1-2 is admittedly a little bit weak, but both players should have their best hockey ahead of them. To me, not an unacceptable option for a team that's admittedly trying to reload, get younger, and atone for some past sins while remaining playoff viable.
I'm just trying to figure out what the endgame here is? Re-tooling is one thing, but the problem runs deeper than gaining cap space and trading one player for a comparable one.
We're a team built from the net out with an elite forward and our best player is aging and likely has his best hockey behind him. I just wonder how this team becomes a cup contender.
I don't think anyone including Gorts could tell you what the end game is right now. I agree 100% with Deej that today was about avoiding another NMC, creating cap space, and getting younger.
On the whole, there's an issue up the middle. There's also almost 1/3 of the cap unspoken for.
If this team were to get realistic steps forward from Buch and Vesey of the magnitude that Miller and Hayes stepped up this year, you're looking at a young forward group that could be a real handful.
That's before adding anything else.
I think Gorts is on the right track. He could absolutely fuck it up, but I don't see any more reason for alarm today than I saw a year ago or 2 years ago.
But the character issues followed him even back then.
Link - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
His monthly splits are here, he had a crappy March and April.
Hockey Reference - ( New Window )
I don't hate this idea, given that both Dallas backups only have one year left.
I suspect that Dallas will have other less costly ways of finding one of the cap floor teams to park the salary.
But the character issues followed him even back then. Link - ( New Window )
Great hearing the lead-in talking about Tampa holding two first round picks from the Rangers <sigh>
But the character issues followed him even back then. Link - ( New Window )
And saying "the character issues followed him even back then." is putting it mildly. That was all they talked about the entire video.
This FO is reactive not pro-active, it pre-dates Gorton's ascension as GM but my hopes were he would bring better long term vision and planning to the personnel side of the franchise. It's proving to be the opposite and that's a major blow to our Cup aspirations imo.
The reddit thread indicates (no proof obviously) that he had similar problems growing up in NJ as did his family overall. Multiple comments that Tampa took a shot but needed to move on because the kid was a racist (I actually had the sense his prior suspensions were for homophobic comments, not racist, but I guess I was wrong).
What is most troubling to me about this is that it speaks volumes about the total package the Rangers received for Stepan and Raanta. A 7th rounder is the primary compensation. It isn't clear DeAngelo adds to the draft pick or is an overall negative moving forward. Would love to see myself rooting for this kid next year. But for now, I am very surprised at the "value" Raanta + Stepan brought (or didn't).
Reddit thread when Tampa traded him to Phoenix for 2nd rounder - ( New Window )
This FO is reactive not pro-active, it pre-dates Gorton's ascension as GM but my hopes were he would bring better long term vision and planning to the personnel side of the franchise. It's proving to be the opposite and that's a major blow to our Cup aspirations imo.
My guess is that if Lindberg were not exposed, LV would have taken Raanta, and perhaps this trade doesn't happen today.
Quote:
...if we were looking to move Stepan why the FUCK didn't we protect Lindberg. We just went from being a strong checking/defensive/intangibles(barring our faceoff woes) team up the middle to thin and generally crappy in all regards at the pivotal(pivot) Center position.
This FO is reactive not pro-active, it pre-dates Gorton's ascension as GM but my hopes were he would bring better long term vision and planning to the personnel side of the franchise. It's proving to be the opposite and that's a major blow to our Cup aspirations imo.
My guess is that if Lindberg were not exposed, LV would have taken Raanta, and perhaps this trade doesn't happen today.
Answer was easier. We could protect 7 forwards. Nash we had to protect by rule (NMC). The other six were Stepan, Kreider, Zucc, Mika, Miller, and Hayes. All six are more valuable than Lindberg.
D.U.M.P.
Only way to square this deal.
From a sheer talent perspective, Rangers lose.
It's a salary dump.
P.E.R.I.O.D.
It was an awful job by the braintrust, such as it is.
D.U.M.P.
Only way to square this deal.
From a sheer talent perspective, Rangers lose.
It's a salary dump.
P.E.R.I.O.D.
My opinion this is addition by subtraction. You have to see how the money gets allocated to see what the full deal is.
On the surface, the player returned is not desirable.
I'm not worried about his "character" in the least. In NY he will be back with his family and support network. And now that I have had a chance to watch him some on video, the kid can flat out play.
Great deal for Rangers
I'm not worried about his "character" in the least. In NY he will be back with his family and support network. And now that I have had a chance to watch him some on video, the kid can flat out play.
Great deal for Rangers
Yup. That's what Tampa thought too.
Quote:
but it is also hockey. This is a game where guys are bashing each other's head in. Stuff gets said in the heat of the moment that shouldn't be said. He is also an Italian guy from Jersey. Probably a bit of a youthful hothead. That's the way my people are. He'll learn. We are talking about stuff that happened when he was 18, 19 years old.
I'm not worried about his "character" in the least. In NY he will be back with his family and support network. And now that I have had a chance to watch him some on video, the kid can flat out play.
Great deal for Rangers
Yup. That's what Tampa thought too.
Steve Avery? Tie Domi? Donald Brashear?
Let's not pretend the Rangers were a bunch of choir boys.
Quote:
In comment 13510053 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
but it is also hockey. This is a game where guys are bashing each other's head in. Stuff gets said in the heat of the moment that shouldn't be said. He is also an Italian guy from Jersey. Probably a bit of a youthful hothead. That's the way my people are. He'll learn. We are talking about stuff that happened when he was 18, 19 years old.
I'm not worried about his "character" in the least. In NY he will be back with his family and support network. And now that I have had a chance to watch him some on video, the kid can flat out play.
Great deal for Rangers
Yup. That's what Tampa thought too.
Steve Avery? Tie Domi? Donald Brashear?
Let's not pretend the Rangers were a bunch of choir boys.
Let's be clear. My primary concern is the value the Rangers received - and value means how many productive games does this kid end up playing for the Rangers and will he end up being more a plus or minus by the end of his rangers' career. Pretty clear to me that he is damaged goods that many teams don't think worthy of an investment. Tampa took a shot and decided he wasn't worth it. You seem to think that means nothing. But they spent a first rounder on him - knowing his history - assuming he would pan out for them. Then they quickly dumped him for a second rounder. There had to be a pretty damn good reason for that. Now Phoenix is moving away from him. Yea, if you ask me, it sound like a really promising situation for the Rangers...
People make mistakes and when you are 18 you are often not aware of the consequences of your actions. Let's hope he has learned.
Dreger: I'm told #NYR would be willing to move 7 and 21 in first round to #Stars as part of a package to acquire 3. NBCSN
Draft is really loaded with Centers. Good fit for Rangers.
The more I think about this trade with Coyotes, the more I like it.
A lot of criticism for the picks, Andersson in particular, and I know nada, but the link Kyle (think it was) posted showing some of his scoring plays was fun and impressive; guess one has to take into account the level of competition.