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Draft Board Guru's Value Board revisited...

Milton : 6/23/2017 7:15 pm
Obviously they missed on many, it's the nature of the business, but I was impressed by how many they placed correctly (relative to where they were drafted).

Value Board--Offense
Value Board--Defense

I was mainly looking at it to see where they placed Wheeler, Rudolph, and some of our late round and undrafted players, but a smile creased my lips when I saw where they placed Charles Harris, who the Cowboys coveted, and Taco Charlton, who the Cowboys settled for. Of course none of that matters once they put the pads on and Charlton may turn out to be twice the player as Harris, but for now.....
Interesting  
adamg : 6/24/2017 2:15 am : link
According to that board, Webb (2C) and Gallman (3C) were legit steals; Tomlinson (2C), Moss (4/5), and Bisnowaty (6/7) were perfect value; only Engram (2A) was a reach.

Webb seems like a really good value in the context of that board and how the draft played out. Having Webb be the best QB on the board when we pick in the 2nd and then having him still be there for us in the third seems more than opportune.

Interested to see how Gallman and Tomlinson look in the preseason...
Still on the table were  
grizz299 : 6/24/2017 7:49 am : link
Malik MacDowell, Chris,Wormley and Reuben Foster..

Tomlinson is important. And maybe disproportionately so.
We matched up well against Dallas because we were playing two 1 technique lineman and countered their ability to run and dominate the line of scrimmage.
That lineup might not have been as good agaisnt the standard NFL passing attack where a three technique tackle might have been more valuable.
Point is...everyone talks how this year's edition might be hostage to the O line...Maybe, but This team needs a good performance out of Tomilinson in order to beat the Cowboys.
And if the more highly rated Wormley or MacDowell go on to have great careers and Tomlinson is ordinary llegit criticism will be in order...along with the relentless din of the unfair criticisms.
Engram  
annexOPR : 6/24/2017 10:34 am : link
is a 230+ pound freak with more speed than some of the best WRs in football.

Well worth the late 1st round selection ... his potential paired with Odell is almost not even fair.
Like most boards, they have Wheeler, Dunker and Johnson...  
Big Blue Blogger : 6/24/2017 11:00 am : link
...as marginally draftable prospects, with Jones, Rudolph and Munson as priority free agents.

Doesn't mean much now, but the consistency of these high marks gives us some reason for optimism about the UDFA class.
WE really wasnt,much if a reach  
PatersonPlank : 6/24/2017 3:26 pm : link
To me if someone is there we like, and he won't be there the next time we pick, then he's the right pick. That was are only shot at picking him, so if he's the guy them do it. Whether he is rated at 21, 25, or 33, it really doesn't matter. It's all pick 21 to us.
RE: WE really wasnt,much if a reach  
PatersonPlank : 6/24/2017 3:28 pm : link
In comment 13510725 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
To me if someone is there we like, and he won't be there the next time we pick, then he's the right pick. That was are only shot at picking him, so if he's the guy them do it. Whether he is rated at 21, 25, or 33, it really doesn't matter. It's all pick 21 to us.


Meant EE, not WE. Spell check
I do of the Engram comments are re my post  
adamg : 6/24/2017 3:32 pm : link
But I don't think he was a reach. More interesting to me is the value we got on day 2 and 3. Especially with Webb lasting to us in the third.
Versus most, if not all, mock draft and publicized charts  
Jimmy Googs : 6/24/2017 3:40 pm : link
Engram was a reach when Giants picked him.

He was projected to be early 2nd rounder.

just sayin'...

RE: Versus most, if not all, mock draft and publicized charts  
adamg : 6/24/2017 3:47 pm : link
In comment 13510736 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
Engram was a reach when Giants picked him.

He was projected to be early 2nd rounder.

just sayin'...


He was. That was the initial reaction across the board (in the media). It also sounded like several teams had Engram higher on their boards than most everyone thought. There was a rumor a team wanted to trade up for him.
Yeah, assume that talk was probably smoke  
Jimmy Googs : 6/24/2017 5:33 pm : link
and other BS but whatever...
RE: Yeah, assume that talk was probably smoke  
adamg : 6/24/2017 5:35 pm : link
In comment 13510793 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
and other BS but whatever...


Trade up might've been. But, it's a possibility given the fact that at least one team had Engram ahead of Njoku, and the Browns traded up for him...
Are you referring to Giants or some other team?  
Jimmy Googs : 6/24/2017 6:27 pm : link
BTW - i think Njoku hype was more media than true draft boards. Cleveland trade to go get him was a bit interesting and maybe panicky.

But I guess if you have a hard-on for a certain player...
It's always a little weird to me when people go back to these types of  
Devon : 6/24/2017 7:10 pm : link
thing to talk about value, especially before any games are played.

Teams showed what these guys' values in the NFL's eyes (the eyes that matter) were a couple months ago and they'll show what type of players they actually will be over the next few years.
Those eyes that matter still pick worthless football beings  
Jimmy Googs : 6/24/2017 7:57 pm : link
each round...each year.
RE: Those eyes that matter still pick worthless football beings  
Devon : 6/24/2017 8:11 pm : link
In comment 13510835 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
each round...each year.


They do, but they still generally do so at a much lower rate than the supposed gurus and fans.

Talk about steals or misses should at least wait until the players actually show something in pads, in games.
Sounds a bit naive. You know immediate reactions  
Jimmy Googs : 6/25/2017 8:49 am : link
come out after each draft - ranking, grades, etc. Its not going to stop either and nothing wrong with it as readers like the coverage of their teams.

The only thing wrong is for the fans to take it seriously...
For any UDFA, the window of opportunity is narrow.  
Big Blue Blogger : 6/25/2017 9:00 am : link
What separates an Andrew Adams from a Justin Currie, or a Will Tye from a Xavier Grimble? A play here, a play there, and - above all - health: their own and that of their competition.

A priority free agent like Chad Wheeler or Roger Lewis starts out with a small edge, and probably gets a few extra reps in OTAs; but once they put on the pads, those five-figure bonus payments don't matter much to the coaches.
RE: Versus most, if not all, mock draft and publicized charts  
Klaatu : 6/25/2017 9:04 am : link
In comment 13510736 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
Engram was a reach when Giants picked him.

He was projected to be early 2nd rounder.

just sayin'...


Which just goes to show how freaking clueless most of these pundits are. Unoriginal, repetitive, derivative.
I agree that many mock boards seem to regress to the mean  
Jimmy Googs : 6/25/2017 9:21 am : link
just prior to Draft Day.

Although that doesn't mean Engram may still have gone too early.

or too late...
RE: RE: Versus most, if not all, mock draft and publicized charts  
BigBlueShock : 6/25/2017 9:22 am : link
In comment 13510956 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 13510736 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


Engram was a reach when Giants picked him.

He was projected to be early 2nd rounder.

just sayin'...




Which just goes to show how freaking clueless most of these pundits are. Unoriginal, repetitive, derivative.

This. I always find it comical when fans sitting on their couches insist that a player was a "reach" because on CBS and ESPN mock drafts projected them to go lower. The term "reach" is thrown around here much too often and it's usually because the person wanted another player. Usually a player with a more recognizable name to them.
Agreed - and sometimes its just a matter of 10-15 picks  
PatersonPlank : 6/25/2017 10:26 am : link
If EE was "supposed" to go early 2nd, then that could have been pick 33. We were at 21, so thats 12 picks. What is the difference if we pick him 12 places higher or not. If he's the guy we want, and he's there, and we know he won't be there at our 2nd round pick, then I don't see how its a reach. That was our only chance at picking him and we did. I also think its falacy to say "well we could've traded down to 33 and got a pick. In a perfect world yes, however we needed a trading partner who would give us proper value, and its a gamble that someone didn't "reach" for EE and pick him at 32.

A reach is when you pick a guy in the 2nd who everyone thought would be a FA or go in the late rounds. A reach isn't when you pick a guy 1/3 of a round before the "experts" say.
Another attribute of a true 'reach' pick...  
Big Blue Blogger : 6/25/2017 11:19 am : link
...is that it usually addresses a glaring need. Otherwise, you can just chalk it up to one team rating a player higher than the draftnik consensus. From this perspective, Engram or Tomlinson might be viewed as a possible reach - though I don't see either that way.

It's probably fair to call Jay Bromley a reach: the Giants badly needed an interior pass rusher, and he seems to have been the last one they liked in his draft class. James Brewer was a similar situation (compounded by not owning any of the next 67 selections). Reaching in the third or fourth round isn't really a big deal. When Jerry Reese reaches for a Blaine Gabbert/Jake Locker/Christian Ponder, I'll join the torches-and-pitchforks mob.
Not sure i agree with all the points above...  
Jimmy Googs : 6/25/2017 12:49 pm : link
Picking a guy 12 picks earlier than you have to in Rd 1 is a bit of a reach. I agree you never know if you can wait or get a deal done, but that differential value is bit large.

Also, focusing too hard on a position or a particularly player can cause a reach. Not automatically of course, but those are clearly symptoms.

Imo, Engram was not a reach. I thought the 2017 draft only had about 10 (or so) guys that were truly first rounders. But there were several rounds of guys that were second round material. Imo...
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