Adrian Wojnarowski& #8207;Verified account @WojVerticalNBA
Owner James Dolan is weighing the future of Phil Jackson as New York Knicks President, league sources tell @TheVertical. Story online soon.
The last thing I want, is someone new to come in, feel a need to prove themselves with some foolish trades/signings, and leave us worse off than we already are. Phil is not great by any means, but at least he has this organization moving in the right direction, albeit by accident.
The problem with the Knicks stems from the guy in charge... I have zero confidence that if Phil were canned, we would bring in someone who understands how to build a team. We would be in the same mess as before... and before was a lot worse than it is today.
being "done" with this team if Rose is re-signed or KP is traded, but I would truly be done forever if Isiah is named president or GM. I'd expect Mills and Houston to take over - two idiots who have their fingerprints all over the last 20 years of ineptitude. Neither would have jobs in the league if not for Jimmy.
and just before free agency. I like Frank, but you let Phil draft a good triangle fit and then fire him a week later? Can we do anything right?
I heard an NFL front office expert break this down after some NFL team (the Bills?) fired their GM right after the draft. He said the reasoning is: Prepping for the draft takes months. Once that process is under way, you can't easily start it over again. So you let the guy do the thing he's prepped to do and have the new guy start fresh and have the full year to prep for the next draft.
I assume there's some similar reasoning in the NBA. After a certain point, you let the guy do the draft and you have the next guy start at the beginning of the cycle.
Under that theory, it wouldn't make sense to bring in a new GM right before the draft. Then the guy's under-prepared for a huge decision that could either elevate the franchise or weigh it down for years.
because the French kid is supposed to be good for the triangle. But he's also supposed to have the potential to be good, period. So if he can shoot, penetrate, distribute, play defense, and is a good kid, how is the possibility that he might suit the triangle a negative.
I saw the (highly suspect) ESPN figures that said he has the highest chance to be a star of any kid in the draft. Also a very high chance of being a total bust. Whatever. Drafting an 18-year-old French point guard is a huge risk, triangle or no triangle. It was a bold gamble because the kid's got a very high ceiling. But the triangle is the least of it.
Ramona Shelburne ✔@ramonashelburne
Following up on @WojVerticalNBA report re: Phil Jackson. Knicks sources indicate to ESPN clarity on his future expected in the morning.
Ramona ShelburneVerified account @ramonashelburne
Sources told ESPN "there's definitely been a conversation going on" between Phil & Dolan as both consider what's best for the Knicks future
What if we get a new President who decides we keep Melo, signns high priced FA's, and trades future draft picks and assets...
in hopes of having a viable product on the court this season and continue selling out the garden. Which in turnn keeps the owner happy and lining his pockets.
This is a business decision for Dolan (if he gets rid of Jackson) knowing losing Melo could also mean a loss in future revenue. Especially if Jackson was ever to consider buying out Carmelo as well.
Lastly, putting KP up on the trading block, didn't help Jackson's cause either. The internet almost had a meltdown. Dolan may know he has to put an end to this circus, that Jackson created
With the history of incompetence we've had to endure, I'm not confident we can assemble a front office that could do any better, than with what we already have.
Mills and Houston will likely take over, and Melo is here another two seasons, stunting the growth of the young guys and costing us precious spots in the draft order - assuming we even keep our picks.
LITERALLY just tried to trade our best draft pick in 30 years. And wanted to resign Rose. And it's been confirmed FAs look at the Knicks as a last resort. I'm pretty sure we can only go up from here.
After three seasons, four head coaches, and 166 losses, the Phil Jackson era has come to a crashing end in New York. After holding a meeting late tonight with high ranking Knicks officials to discuss Jacksons future with the organization, team owner James Dolan made the final decision to fire Jackson from his position as President of Basketball Operations effective immediately, sources tell Hoops Inq.
Though the relationship between Dolan and Jackson had been deteriorating for some timethe two had not spoken in months except over textthe situation was brought to a breaking point by a series of recent developments. Most recently, Dolan was angered by Jacksons decision to publicly dangle young star Kristaps Porzingis in trade talks. Sources indicate that he was also upset by Jacksons selection of French guard Frank Ntilikina over North Carolina States Dennis Smith, Jr., in last weeks draft. Finally, Dolan had become annoyed by the fact that the Knicks will likely be unable to pursue any big name free agents this offseason as they are shackled by their large contractual commitments to Carmelo Anthony and Joakim Noah.
The division between Jackson and Dolan became so severe in recent weeks that it split the front office in half. There now existed a strong internal divide, with Dolans loyalists on one end and Jacksons faithful on the other. Sources indicate that one particular point of conflict between the two sides involved the prospect of re-signing free agent point guard Derrick Rose. Jacksons side was open to the idea of bringing back the controversial point guard while Dolans faction, which includes general manager Steve Mills, was staunchly opposed to the idea.
In Dolans view, firing Phil may have been the best of a few bad financial options. Dolan had recently been presented the options of buying out Anthony or Noahs contracts and was disinclined to do either. He felt that it would be cheaper to just fire Jackson, even if that meant paying some portion of the remaining money on his contract.
In addition to the financial incentives, Dolan believed firing Jackson may have had the added benefits of pleasing Porzingis and resolving the ongoing Carmelo Anthony debacle. Now that Jackson is gone, sources say, Anthony will likely not be bought out or traded and will instead stay in New York, as is his preference.
Jacksons sudden dismissal creates a number of questions for the future of the Knicks organization. The most immediate uncertainty has to do with who will be directing the front office as it enters this off-seasons free agency period. Incumbent general manager Steve Mills served as President of Basketball Operations prior to Jacksons 2014 hire, and it had been reported by several outlets that he still served as the primary point of contact for outside organizations during the Jackson regime. Sources tell Hoops Inq. that early candidates for the presidency will be former Knicks guard and current ABC commentator Mark Jackson and former Detroit Pistons president Joe Dumars.
Given Jacksons promotion of the triangle offense within the organization, his departure from the Knicks could have drastic implications for the teams on-court product. Head coach Jeff Hornacek, who Jackson hired last summer and who sources indicate may also be on his way out, initially distanced himself from the post-centric offense. By the seasons end, however, he had begun to voice a desire to commit the team entirely to the triangle. Though it has been reported that the offense was the focus of all the Knicks pre-draft workouts, it stands to reason that Jacksons dismissal could spell the end of the triangle in New York, especially given its reported unpopularity with incumbent players and free agents.
How the organization navigates these dilemmas is a question that will have to be answered by whoever is next to hold the teams presidency. Where the Knicks go next is up in the air; for now, all thats for certain is that Phil Jackson wont be leading them there.
He was brought here for 2 reasons:
1. Restore instant credibility to the franchise
2. Ala Pat Riley throw his rings on the table and convince stars to come here.
Well We some how now have even less credibility than before he came, and no star free agent will even take a meeting with us let alone come here. So I'd say Phil has been complete and utter mission failure. The quicker we move on the better. Give Houston a shot or bring a young hungry GM in here who is interested in building a franchise not take a up a hobby to make a ton of $ as a retirement position.
Phil's out, Rambis out, Derrick Rose out (most likely).
Bad news (so far): Melo stays, Dolan didn't like the draft pick (though he had a concert that night) and Dumars is in the mix presumably because of Isiah.
He was brought here for 2 reasons:
1. Restore instant credibility to the franchise
2. Ala Pat Riley throw his rings on the table and convince stars to come here.
Well We some how now have even less credibility than before he came, and no star free agent will even take a meeting with us let alone come here. So I'd say Phil has been complete and utter mission failure. The quicker we move on the better. Give Houston a shot or bring a young hungry GM in here who is interested in building a franchise not take a up a hobby to make a ton of $ as a retirement position.
That having been said its very disturbing that he was allowed to make such a huge pick. I'm all for giving Frank a chance, but another GM may have wanted to go with another player, or worse, the remaining crew wanted someone else. This organization may set a record for clusterfuckness...
Mills and Houston will likely take over, and Melo is here another two seasons, stunting the growth of the young guys and costing us precious spots in the draft order - assuming we even keep our picks.
DOESN'T HE REALIZE THAT KEEPING MELO IS A VERY, VERY BAD FUCKING IDEA?
Sorry for the caps, but the timing of the stupidity is difficult to believe. I guess KP and Melo won. And by "won", I mean Dolan is "hands on" again. Hooray ! (Or not.)
Phil's out, Rambis out, Derrick Rose out (most likely).
Bad news (so far): Melo stays, Dolan didn't like the draft pick (though he had a concert that night) and Dumars is in the mix presumably because of Isiah.
Jackson probably was a poor choice as GM although he had the right idea about building through the draft, not trading about picks Willy Nilly, and moving away from ISO-Melo.
However, feuding publicly with Melo and KP was just stupid.
But what happens now? Free agency starts on July 1st. The trade market is open. Thus, the Knicks will be in limbo through this process. Why wasn't this decision made a month ago, before the draft.
Jackson is gone, but the real problem with this franchise, Dolan remains.
Of course it adds to the circus that is the NY knicks..
but this is a good move. I had such high hopes for Jackson, i figured he at least would bring us credibility, but he was a mess. I honestly did not hate a lot of his moves when we made them. That said the way he has handled the melo situation has been horrible and now he is working on alienating KP.
Id love to bring in a young exec or a guy like hinkie. No more former great players or coaches or whatever. Dont give the keys to mills/houston, that scenario worries me. I just dont feel confident in Houston for some reason.
The one constant is Dolan. His overruling panic trade to get Melo all those years ago, set the franchise, which was just about to be in a good place, down this road. His hiring decisions are awful and he doesn't have any idea how to be the owner that complements the professionals, as opposed to be the owner that detracts and derails.
Unless the NBA steps in, I am 61 and I doubt I will ever see a truly meaningful playoff series played by the NY Knicks again.
LITERALLY just tried to trade our best draft pick in 30 years. And wanted to resign Rose. And it's been confirmed FAs look at the Knicks as a last resort. I'm pretty sure we can only go up from here.
Part of me asks whether it made sense to let Phil take Frank if you were this close to firing him. I get the need to prep for the draft, I just wonder how different it is for the NBA with less picks and a relatively better known universe of "top talent" vs. the NFL.
The other part of me is ecstatic he's gone, the triangle is gone, and hopefully the all too frequent media appearances of throwing the players under the bus is gone.
for all we know, Dolan's objection was that Phil thinks the rebuild could take so long that we're still bad when KP hits FA.
This is not a bad job for a prospective GM. Dolan did not interfere with Phil and he paid him a shit ton. You have KP, Willy, Frank, and your picks. I really hope that Dolan finds a talented and smart candidate, and not just a loyal guy.
i dont think the draft pick really was a big reason
back Rose, this is a good thing. I can't even believe after drafting a PG they think has a future, bringing back Rose was even discussed. Find another vet with some actual basketball sense
Getting Masai would be a grand slam but he signed an extension last year. I'm sure he would cost the Knicks some draft picks. Probably worth it though.
Very interested to hear the other targets. Why not offer RC Buford the same deal Phil got? Would he turn down all that money?
Getting Masai would be a grand slam but he signed an extension last year. I'm sure he would cost the Knicks some draft picks. Probably worth it though.
Very interested to hear the other targets. Why not offer RC Buford the same deal Phil got? Would he turn down all that money?
I'm just happy the Phil Jackson era is over.
i also wonder if they fire hornacek, or do they give him a chance to coach without phil's triangle influence
I've hated Phil Jackson my entire lifetime as a Knicks fan. I remember his smug self sitting on the court as the Bulls would tear out the hearts of Knicks fans. He'd be sitting there too with Koby and Shaq but by that time the Knicks were well down the long road of failure they've been on for my entire life. I know the guy was an NBA Champion with the Knicks but I hate him. When Jackson was hired I thought it was a joke. I thought Jackson would take Dolans money and ruin the Knicks. His ego and commitment to the triangle offense were bizzare. Those absurd free agent signings! The entire situation with Melo and then the idea of trading KP, our only franchise type player since Ewing, and then the mere idea of bringing back Rose! It was one profoundly stupid idea after another. A total shit show. It seemed to me that Jackson was actively trying to ruin the Knicks.
As someone who didn't like the Frank pick, it's salt in the wound to read that JD wanted DSJ. Holly smokes!
It sucks, because Jackson drove the rickety broken down Knicks into a ditch. But at least JD is taking away the keys. Maybe Dolan can finally turn things around.
And I wouldn't be surprised if someone like Isaiah is talking to Dolan. Let's not forget that he was too busy playing his kazoo when Frank got drafted. This is a guy who knows fuck all about basketball. If he feels Phil is screwing with his bottom line, bye Phil.
But I dont think there will be much stink on KP from this. There will be a bit so he has to keep his nose clean.
But I think at the end it was the Melo situation that forced Dolan to act. I bet Phil told him that they have to buyout Melo, and Dolan said no.
I'll never understand the buy out Melo chorus. Devaluing assets is all Phil was good at. Now you hope he plays well and you trade him at the deadline. Melo is a pro. He will accept a trade to a good team (as long as Phil isn't the guy making the trade)
Jackson had to go as his outdated beliefs and inability to communicate with anyone made the Knicks a laughingstock. Now it is time for Melo to go. Jackson is not to blame for bringing in this selfish star with an unwillingness to play team ball or defense. Get this guy out of here and start a true rebuild.
Reportedly is flat out scared of Masai (in a good way). Hankies, anyone but Allan Houston (was told he has no clue) thanks!
But why would toronto just let him go? knicks going to give them a 1st?
Oh they most certainly won't and he won't be a real option for this reason but Dolan thinks the world of Masai. I was told "Allan Houston is a great guy but fully unqualified"
Reportedly is flat out scared of Masai (in a good way). Hankies, anyone but Allan Houston (was told he has no clue) thanks!
But why would toronto just let him go? knicks going to give them a 1st?
Oh they most certainly won't and he won't be a real option for this reason but Dolan thinks the world of Masai. I was told "Allan Houston is a great guy but fully unqualified"
dolan is going to hire someone he thinks players respect, i dont think he liked hesring how players did not want to come tk new york because of phil...
we heard recently how melo wamted to stay, guarantee melo was in dolans ear...
he is going to hire griffin in hopes he can get the banana boat 4some in new yorm
There wasn't really a plan with Phil either, to be honest.
I mean, when is there a plan when you fire a GM?
We're rebuilding (aka we suck). There are really 2 ways to go about this. 1) slow burn drafting/development rebuild, 2) go out in FA and trade and get vets to be better quickly.
Pick one, and then you figure out what variation within those two options you're pursuing -- is slow rebuild, are you willing to get worse at first (e.g. the Process)? Are you playing it straight, keeping your picks and developing them? Or do you see value in making a strategic trade for a vet (e.g. the Wolves, either KG leadership or Butler talent acquisitions)? If going the vet route, are you supplementing your current core, trading them off, or stripping down to replicate the Summer of LeBron.
This isnt rocket science. Mostly its about drafting well and handing out good contracts. It's not easy, but it doesnt require a master plan.
We are stuck with Frank now in one of the most important draft picks we have ever had. He should have fired him before the draft. We pass on 2-3 higher upside players in the draft for the stupid triangle and now we aren't even going to run the triangle. Unreal this organization is a joke
Dolan also had told confidantes that Jacksons best asset was the fact the president took the heat off himself.
I think it's why he was so loyal to Sather (Rangers), another HOF name.
I suspect the next President/GM will be a name. Maybe not Phil famous, but someone who is big enough to take all the heat if Dolan looks hands off.
he wants what he has with the rangers, everyone says ohe doesnt like hockey so he stays away, no he stays away because sather is there..
Very true. He thought that's what he was getting in Phil. Say what you want about Dolan, but he was very hands off while Jackson was here lets just hope this time he hires a GM that actually knows what he's doing.
The fact that Melo won yet another power struggle is scary.
Now he and Dolan don't have Phil as a human shield anymore, and people will be reminded quickly why they used to hate these two so much. Forget about a rebuild, we're going all in on a 40-win team. I thought I was done with Melo - now he probably finishes his career here.
In comment 13513222 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
The one constant is Dolan. His overruling panic trade to get Melo all those years ago, set the franchise, which was just about to be in a good place, down this road. His hiring decisions are awful and he doesn't have any idea how to be the owner that complements the professionals, as opposed to be the owner that detracts and derails.
Perfect summary. People forget the Melo trade also had to do with Dolan panicking about Prokhorov & the Nets.
We are stuck with Frank now in one of the most important draft picks we have ever had. He should have fired him before the draft. We pass on 2-3 higher upside players in the draft for the stupid triangle and now we aren't even going to run the triangle. Unreal this organization is a joke
just because you never seen a player play doesnt make him a bad pick...
he passed on dennis smith who.plays no defense and has bad knees..
malik monk is a 6 foot 3 shooting guard, if he cant play point how succesful do you think he will be?
Carmelo is still a ball stopper and it appears he's not going anywhere. I just hope whoever the next guy is doesn't start throwing around stupid money and ruin the financial flexibility we have in the post Lebron era.
That courtney lee will get traded for a 2nd Rd pick to free up cap space to max out Paul millsap and we will be a 43 win team for the next 3 years wasting a great lottery pick next year. I really hope they get a real gm whose primary goal is to get Carmelo off this team.
One question that I am curious about, assume Melo stays for the whole year, do you think he will opt out next year or would he opt in?
slightly happy about Phil being gone when Dolan still owns the Knicks.
This, x1000. I'm not crazy about the job Jackson did either, but at least he had some sort of plan. It's entirely possible that it goes down hill from here. Allan Houston? Good lord..
can you answer this when Jackson isn't even the coach?
Quote:
I always wondered if Phil Jackson
Beer Man : 8:38 am : link : reply
Could coach a team, that didn't have the best players in the game, to a championship. For now, the answer isapparently not.
slightly happy about Phil being gone when Dolan still owns the Knicks.
This, x1000. I'm not crazy about the job Jackson did either, but at least he had some sort of plan. It's entirely possible that it goes down hill from here. Allan Houston? Good lord..
Agree, although my issue with Phil is that he veered from his "plan" too often (re-signing Carmelo, bringing in a non triangle coach and aging vets on me first 1 year deals).
slightly happy about Phil being gone when Dolan still owns the Knicks.
This, x1000. I'm not crazy about the job Jackson did either, but at least he had some sort of plan. It's entirely possible that it goes down hill from here. Allan Houston? Good lord..
Phil's "plan" changed several different times here. That was one of his problems.
But I don't expect anything to actually improve. They'll hang on to the corpse of Carmelo now, as if that does any good. Dolan will hire some other hack. The team will continue to suck, but not enough to get a top 5 pick.
Best Knick performances of the "21st century" - no Jeremy Lin. When your owner is still as immature as a spurned 15-year-old boy, there's not much hope.
But I don't expect anything to actually improve. They'll hang on to the corpse of Carmelo now, as if that does any good. Dolan will hire some other hack. The team will continue to suck, but not enough to get a top 5 pick.
And on and on it will go.
Pretty much. The heat is squarely on Dolan, Melo and KP now. I think they're gonna miss having their scapegoat to kick around.
I mean, he seems competent enough, which would be a big step up for the Knicks, but it's not as if the guy is a magician or anything. Nuggets and Raptors....BFD.
I mean, he seems competent enough, which would be a big step up for the Knicks, but it's not as if the guy is a magician or anything. Nuggets and Raptors....BFD.
the precailing thought is dolan is basically afraid of him
unlike Phil has shown ability as a GM. I wonder if Ujiri would come here without a promise of full or near full autonomy. His Toronto situation is much much better than ours.
just signed an extension last fall. No idea what the terms were. My assumption is that getting this guy out of his contract, and from a team in our division, is going to be costly. This is sort of funny as Dolan obviously knows him from the Melo trade. My guess is whatever "shortlist" Dolan has in his head of potential GM hires is probably very limited, simply because he doesn't know many from around the league. He's going to gravitate to guys like Phil or Isiah instead of interviewing assistants from successful front offices around the league.
I mean, he seems competent enough, which would be a big step up for the Knicks, but it's not as if the guy is a magician or anything. Nuggets and Raptors....BFD.
he's definitely overrated, but he'd be a step up in quality for us.
Please hire somebody that is intelligent, has a viable long term plan, has a working knowledge/respect for quantitative analysis and isn't necessarily a former player/coach (skills that aren't necessarily translatable to working in an NBA front office).
Can we all just stop with the bitching about the Ntilikina pick?
Triangle or not, he was arguably the best player on the board. There was a lot of talk before the draft that Dallas was looking to jump in front of us to grab him, if Minnesota doesn't ship their pick to Chicago it's very possible that happens. Secondly, if we had taken Smith as many are crying over then Dallas probably grabs Frank at 9 so it's not like taking him at 8 was some huge reach. He went right in the range that he was expected to go. He has size, projects as a plus defender, is an efficient scorer and has been a high percentage shooter from 3. We have a 19 year old kid with a ton of potential regardless of what the offensive system is.
is flat out scared of Ujiri. I've mentioned this before but Dolan blocked the Lowry deal mostly because he had been so "impressed" by whatever Ujiri pulled in the Melo negotiations.
better than he found it. When Phil got hired, the team's 2 best players under the age of 25 were Iman Shumpert and Tim Hardaway Jr. Plus, they had no draft picks.
Outside of his pillaging of the Knicks, what has Ujiri done since he left Denver? All of the best players (and the coach) on Toronto were already there when he got the job. Most of his draft picks have sucked.
of the last time a team poached an executive, and the compensation that it required?
The Orlando Magic will send the Toronto Raptors a 2018 second-round draft pick as compensation for hiring new president of basketball operations Jeff Weltman, league sources told The Vertical.
I think the correct move is paying off Phil to hit the road and dealing with Carmelo for a bit longer in order to trade at the deadline for whatever you can get. Paying Phil $24 million to leave makes much more sense than paying over double that to get rid of Anthony and get nothing else in return.
But Phil needs to go. His ego is too big and the current well of young talent shouldn't be poisoned.
of the last time a team poached an executive, and the compensation that it required?
The Orlando Magic will send the Toronto Raptors a 2018 second-round draft pick as compensation for hiring new president of basketball operations Jeff Weltman, league sources told The Vertical.
to becoming a good to very good team in 3-4 years, mainly because we have a major piece in place and still have our first round draft picks. Moreover, it wouldn't take a GM who's a mastermind to execute the plan; merely one who's patient and half-way competent.
The issue, as it's always been, is Dolan and whether he'll be hands off and willing to wait.
is flat out scared of Ujiri. I've mentioned this before but Dolan blocked the Lowry deal mostly because he had been so "impressed" by whatever Ujiri pulled in the Melo negotiations.
Ujiri pulled it on Dolan. Walsh had parameters to make the trade, Dolan came in,blew them up & basically told Ujiri we'll give you whatever you want for Melo!
but let's not pretend like this is some great day.
I think in order, Phil's biggest mistakes were:
1) Organizational triangle mandate
2) Melo NTC
3) Noah contract
4) (If true) His willingness to bring Rose back.
All that said, Carmelo Anthony did no favors for Phil or this organization. Aside from the fact that many wanted Melo back, I think Phil tried to mentally challenge Melo into becoming a leader of the team.
Instead of building trust with one another, their relationship evaporated, throw in the NTC and at that point the flood gates opened up. The truth about Melo is that he never bought in and never seemed to value leadership or prioritize winning.
The Rose deal was a very reasonable, very low risk/high reward move. I actually thought that was a decent gamble that didnt work out. Any interest level in him at this point is totally nuts. If it's true Phil was open to that...there's another mistake.
As far as KP? I can't be a hypocrite. I screamed when they took him. I thought he was just another skinny Euro and I was devastated (kind of still am) that they missed out on KAT because they played to win games down the stretch of that season. However, it is a credit to Phil that the KP pick was a home run. I think all the noise surrounding him last week was mostly overreaction. I would listen to every offer with the amount of future assets some teams have and the current "meaningless" state of trying to win anything in the NBA short term.
All in all, there is some sense of relief, but also what do we do now? More than that I think the prevailing thought is, so we still have to watch Carmelo Anthony?
of the last time a team poached an executive, and the compensation that it required?
The Orlando Magic will send the Toronto Raptors a 2018 second-round draft pick as compensation for hiring new president of basketball operations Jeff Weltman, league sources told The Vertical.
That's really not all that bad.
Do we have any 2nd round picks in the immediate future or do the Sixers have them all?
is flat out scared of Ujiri. I've mentioned this before but Dolan blocked the Lowry deal mostly because he had been so "impressed" by whatever Ujiri pulled in the Melo negotiations.
Ujiri pulled it on Dolan. Walsh had parameters to make the trade, Dolan came in,blew them up & basically told Ujiri we'll give you whatever you want for Melo!
I think that is something people want to believe because they hate Dolan so much. If the deal were agreed to then that's that. Not even Dolan is that dumb. Ujiri was holding out for more and threatening to sent Melo to the Nets. Dolan did get involved at this point but there was no "deal". Dolan got spooked.
come to work for Dolan? Its pretty much a career ender.
So maybe someone looking for a big final paycheck but otherwise?
The Knick organization is a joke. Being fair, is it really realistic for anyone with vision to think that they can fix this mess with the glare of the media and an irrational and paranoid owner?
is flat out scared of Ujiri. I've mentioned this before but Dolan blocked the Lowry deal mostly because he had been so "impressed" by whatever Ujiri pulled in the Melo negotiations.
Ujiri pulled it on Dolan. Walsh had parameters to make the trade, Dolan came in,blew them up & basically told Ujiri we'll give you whatever you want for Melo!
I think that is something people want to believe because they hate Dolan so much. If the deal were agreed to then that's that. Not even Dolan is that dumb. Ujiri was holding out for more and threatening to sent Melo to the Nets. Dolan did get involved at this point but there was no "deal". Dolan got spooked.
It's not about believing something, it's about what happened. Walsh was negotiating the deal, then he got "dismissed" & Dolan took over. You're right about the Nets being part of the equation but Melo (who allegedly only wanted to play for the Knicks) forced the Knicks hand to give up the farm to get him (& you're right,Ujiri parlayed that into a tremendous return on an asset they wanted to move),thus valuing $$$ more than playing for a winning team!
it or not I don't think the Knicks job is "that bad". You have a potential superstar signed for multiple seasons, you have Willy who at worst looks like a solid young big, I didn't want Frank but he should be a solid NBA player and you have a fan base who seems ready to see youth and rebuilding and not the same old garbage. Ujiri (or someone of his ilk) would likely want iron clad job security and assurances they could "rebuild" and not Derrick Rose their way to being good quickly. Lee has some value, Melo could still have some value. If 2018 ends up with KP and Willy having forward development, Frank shows flashes, the Knicks win 28 games and pick 6th and get another young player I think the arrow would be pointing firmly up. If we go chasing Derrick Rose etc then fuck this team forever.
It is survived by Kurt Rambis. In lieu of flowers, please send donations of unexpired talent to the Knicks Fans Relief Fund, 1 Penn Plaza NYC c/o some lackies.
it or not I don't think the Knicks job is "that bad". You have a potential superstar signed for multiple seasons, you have Willy who at worst looks like a solid young big, I didn't want Frank but he should be a solid NBA player and you have a fan base who seems ready to see youth and rebuilding and not the same old garbage. Ujiri (or someone of his ilk) would likely want iron clad job security and assurances they could "rebuild" and not Derrick Rose their way to being good quickly. Lee has some value, Melo could still have some value. If 2018 ends up with KP and Willy having forward development, Frank shows flashes, the Knicks win 28 games and pick 6th and get another young player I think the arrow would be pointing firmly up. If we go chasing Derrick Rose etc then fuck this team forever.
I agree. Dolan stayed out of Phil's hair, and plainly is more interested in his band and attending games than running things. The NYR job has been a good one for a while.
all I meant was there is a perception the deal was done and then Dolan ran into the room and threw in Mozgov etc. Ujiri was playing hardball and Dolan freaked out scared the Nets would land Melo. Remember at the time the Nets move to Brooklyn was set and people were acting like this would soon be a "Nets town". I'm not defending Dolan even 1%, he's a trash human being. I just meant Dolan presumably negotiates with people all the time and yet the Ujiri negotiations for whatever the reason really stuck with him.
all I meant was there is a perception the deal was done and then Dolan ran into the room and threw in Mozgov etc. Ujiri was playing hardball and Dolan freaked out scared the Nets would land Melo. Remember at the time the Nets move to Brooklyn was set and people were acting like this would soon be a "Nets town". I'm not defending Dolan even 1%, he's a trash human being. I just meant Dolan presumably negotiates with people all the time and yet the Ujiri negotiations for whatever the reason really stuck with him.
Dan, don't disagree w/that. I think Dolan realized he was played for a fool after the fact & that has stuck w/him. I remember reading an article, maybe a year later, where Dolan talked about the fact he has to stay out of negotiations, w/o ever specifically saying the Melo deal was the impetus!
Marc SteinVerified account @ESPNSteinLine
In Knicks news: League sources say former Raptors exec Tim Leiweke is poised to help them as an advisor in wake of Phil Jackson's exit.
he's also a business partner of Dolan buddy Irving Azoff.
will still have been made if the draft was tonight? These lotto picks are too important to just throw away. Hopefully this wasn't a triangle pick. Also, need a new coach now.
will still have been made if the draft was tonight? These lotto picks are too important to just throw away. Hopefully this wasn't a triangle pick. Also, need a new coach now.
I certainly hope so. Frank's value wasn't tied to the triangle. Yes, he would have fit, but shooting and defense fit in any system.
says "not a chance in hell" Ujiri is allowed to leave Toronto. If he were to ask out the Raptors would ask for "multiple" firsts. So cross him off (if accurate).
I don't think I'll ever see a worse owner than Dolan
He seems to be the only guy running the team who had a good plan and tried to stay with it. Everyone else kept switching on the fly from playoff contending to rebuilding or visa versa. My big knock on Walsh was not moving up in the draft to get Curry but who knows if it was even doable or if Dolan got involved. But I thought with Walsh in the picture there was a professional running the team and Dolan firing him makes me think Dolan is the main screw up here. Is Walsh the one who cleared all the big crappy contracts years ago?
He seems to be the only guy running the team who had a good plan and tried to stay with it. Everyone else kept switching on the fly from playoff contending to rebuilding or visa versa. My big knock on Walsh was not moving up in the draft to get Curry but who knows if it was even doable or if Dolan got involved. But I thought with Walsh in the picture there was a professional running the team and Dolan firing him makes me think Dolan is the main screw up here. Is Walsh the one who cleared all the big crappy contracts years ago?
He seems to be the only guy running the team who had a good plan and tried to stay with it. Everyone else kept switching on the fly from playoff contending to rebuilding or visa versa. My big knock on Walsh was not moving up in the draft to get Curry but who knows if it was even doable or if Dolan got involved. But I thought with Walsh in the picture there was a professional running the team and Dolan firing him makes me think Dolan is the main screw up here. Is Walsh the one who cleared all the big crappy contracts years ago?
walsh was awful
Walsh was much better than Layden, Isiah, and Jackson.
1) Organizational triangle mandate
2) Melo NTC
3) Noah contract
4) (If true) His willingness to bring Rose back.
I have a hard time taking seriously the argument that Melo's NTC was worse than the Noah contract. People are a little too nuts on the Melo issue IMO, as if Melo is the key malady holding this team back.
He seems to be the only guy running the team who had a good plan and tried to stay with it. Everyone else kept switching on the fly from playoff contending to rebuilding or visa versa. My big knock on Walsh was not moving up in the draft to get Curry but who knows if it was even doable or if Dolan got involved. But I thought with Walsh in the picture there was a professional running the team and Dolan firing him makes me think Dolan is the main screw up here. Is Walsh the one who cleared all the big crappy contracts years ago?
walsh was awful
Walsh was much better than Layden, Isiah, and Jackson.
Walsh was better than all 3 combined. People forget he didn't want to trade for Melo. His biggest failure was not luring Lebron, which was due to a lot more than Walsh. The Amare deal wasn't great in sum, but put the Knicks back on the map and into contention at first. On balance, the best job done of any of these schmucks since Dolan took over.
The point is, by bringing back Melo Phil bet on himself that he could reach/motivate Melo to buy in. With the NTC he clearly didnt leave himself much of a safety net in the worst case scenario which eventually played out.
Everything Phil did was based on the premise that Melo bought into his system.
He seems to be the only guy running the team who had a good plan and tried to stay with it. Everyone else kept switching on the fly from playoff contending to rebuilding or visa versa. My big knock on Walsh was not moving up in the draft to get Curry but who knows if it was even doable or if Dolan got involved. But I thought with Walsh in the picture there was a professional running the team and Dolan firing him makes me think Dolan is the main screw up here. Is Walsh the one who cleared all the big crappy contracts years ago?
walsh was awful
Walsh was much better than Layden, Isiah, and Jackson.
Walsh was better than all 3 combined. People forget he didn't want to trade for Melo. His biggest failure was not luring Lebron, which was due to a lot more than Walsh. The Amare deal wasn't great in sum, but put the Knicks back on the map and into contention at first. On balance, the best job done of any of these schmucks since Dolan took over.
that was his worst move?
how about trading crawford and zach randolph for nothing..
how about trading a first round pick to get ris of jefferies BEFORE he knew if he couks sign anyone...
how about being the biggest lous mouth when it came to the media, the guy had more leaks then titanic after getting hit by an iceberg...
how about trying to win games the 2 years before phil rather than just tanking for 2 years...
The point is, by bringing back Melo Phil bet on himself that he could reach/motivate Melo to buy in. With the NTC he clearly didnt leave himself much of a safety net in the worst case scenario which eventually played out.
Everything Phil did was based on the premise that Melo bought into his system.
I think bringing back Melo was a must (the Knicks were 100% not going to go into full rebuild anyway). Was the NTC unncessary? Maybe. But I think at the time that it was fairly assumed that Melo would waive it if the team didnt develop, and that it was really there to give him reasonable leverage on where he'd go next. I dont think anyone anticipated that he'd knock up some side piece, leading his wife to divorce him, and force him to want to stick around to be in the same city as his kid.
I think the Melo deal was a reasonable gamble. You have to evaluate decisions ex ante to some degree, and not just on whether they worked out. The Noah deal was just ridiculous. Too many years, too much money, too injured, and no appreciable upside because we simply arent in a contending window. So I think the order isnt the issue -- putting the Melo and Noah deals next to eachother is far too kind to the Noah deal.
I don't understand the obsession with Donnie Walsh.
Not only was nothing about him great, but he also cost us LeBron by being in that fucking wheelchair and slobbering all over the place during the presentation.
I don't understand the obsession with Donnie Walsh.
Not only was nothing about him great, but he also cost us LeBron by being in that fucking wheelchair and slobbering all over the place during the presentation.
I really think the issue was that the Heat cleared out the cap for 3 near-max contracts, and CAA represented all 3 guys and put it together.
Walsh's biggest mistake in courting Lebron, IMO, was jumping the gun. The Knicks open flirtation and cap clearing moves, which led to so much chatter, I think motivated other teams to get in on the LeBron sweepstakes. I cant prove that. But mostly I think Miami's salary cap, CAA, and already having Wade was the key here; Patty gets a bit too much credit.
arc just for the record, your comment crosses the line...
That's awesome of you to make fun of a guy for being in a wheelchair and "slobbering" all over himself. Since when is it cool to make fun of an old man with health issues?
That rumor has always bugged me and if that truly made a difference than LeBron James and his people are even bigger assholes than that process showed them to be.
He seems to be the only guy running the team who had a good plan and tried to stay with it. Everyone else kept switching on the fly from playoff contending to rebuilding or visa versa. My big knock on Walsh was not moving up in the draft to get Curry but who knows if it was even doable or if Dolan got involved. But I thought with Walsh in the picture there was a professional running the team and Dolan firing him makes me think Dolan is the main screw up here. Is Walsh the one who cleared all the big crappy contracts years ago?
walsh was awful
Walsh was much better than Layden, Isiah, and Jackson.
Walsh was better than all 3 combined. People forget he didn't want to trade for Melo. His biggest failure was not luring Lebron, which was due to a lot more than Walsh. The Amare deal wasn't great in sum, but put the Knicks back on the map and into contention at first. On balance, the best job done of any of these schmucks since Dolan took over.
that was his worst move?
how about trading crawford and zach randolph for nothing..
how about trading a first round pick to get ris of jefferies BEFORE he knew if he couks sign anyone...
how about being the biggest lous mouth when it came to the media, the guy had more leaks then titanic after getting hit by an iceberg...
how about trying to win games the 2 years before phil rather than just tanking for 2 years...
You don't like his style, fine...but every move you cite was done to get us out of eternal cap hell, which he stated was his plan and he achieved.
Now, did he or anyone else succeed in building a winner from there? No...but that alone made him better than anyone before or since after about 199.
And knocking him for being in a wheelchair for the Lebron meeting is pretty pathetic. The fact Lebrons team of jerkoffs mocked him for that after was weak on their part, not a knock on Dolan.
Nobody is saying Walsh was Red Auerbach. Just that he was better than Layden, Isaiah and Jax
Grunwald is the GOAT for worst in modern Knicks history
I've always been partial to Ed Tapscott. During his 2 minutes as interim prez and GM he managed to use a 1st round pick on Frederic Weis. That's tough to top when it comes to sucking
Yeah, I was just kidding around. That was some nonsense people were floating around around that time - I'm really just mocking the idea that it was what actually cost us LeBron. Obviously it wasn't.
I still didn't think much of Walsh, but... none of that really matters now.
RE: RE: Grunwald is the GOAT for worst in modern Knicks history
And traded garbage for Tyson Chandler.
And signed Jeremy Lin off the scrap heap.
And signed Jason Kidd.
And signed JR Smith for pennies.
And signed Steve Novak off the scrap heap.
And signed Pablo Prigioni.
And drafted Shumpert and Hardaway Jr. with bottom half of the 1st round picks.
The team won 54 fucking games in 2012-2013 with this guy running the team and 70 out of 100 over a 2 year span. When is that happening again?
will lose my fucking mind if Dolan gives up 1st round picks for Ujiri.
I don't see that happening - but if there's a point where someone says "I've finally had enough, I'm done with the Knicks," I think that'd be a pretty heavy straw.
will lose my fucking mind if Dolan gives up 1st round picks for Ujiri.
I don't see that happening - but if there's a point where someone says "I've finally had enough, I'm done with the Knicks," I think that'd be a pretty heavy straw.
Raptors beat guy Ryan Wolstat is pretty tied in and he insists they not only would need 1 1st it would be multiple. Even one first would make me absolutely bonkers. I think Bill Belichick is the only coach/exec worth a 1st round pick in any sport and the NBA 1sts are that much more valuable.
will lose my fucking mind if Dolan gives up 1st round picks for Ujiri.
I don't see that happening - but if there's a point where someone says "I've finally had enough, I'm done with the Knicks," I think that'd be a pretty heavy straw.
Raptors beat guy Ryan Wolstat is pretty tied in and he insists they not only would need 1 1st it would be multiple. Even one first would make me absolutely bonkers. I think Bill Belichick is the only coach/exec worth a 1st round pick in any sport and the NBA 1sts are that much more valuable.
If you told me Popovich would coach another 5+ years, I'd consider a (top 5, if not top 10 protected) 1st for him.
respect the hell out of Popovich but I suspect a Knicks turnaround (given the virtue of the NBA) would be more GM based (talent influx) than coach based and would take 2-3 years. At the end of the day the ping pong balls dictate champions not coaches. In the NFL I feel like Belichick could turn around a garbage franchise quicker than any NBA coach could.
Jackson was on the job for 1200 days. He made $60 million.
That's $50,000 a day.
$50,000 a day.
Holy shit.
I think Larry Brown might have actually done better - on an earnings per day basis.
This is a nice flashing light of a hot take (courtesy of Darren Rovell) but the reality is that even if Phil had been a success and had worked through his whole contract, he was due $33K per day. It was always a big number.
a first rounder for Pat the Riley way back when. If Ujiri did in fact want to come here (and I don't see why he would), this is the sort of thing where Silver would likely have to get involved.
respect the hell out of Popovich but I suspect a Knicks turnaround (given the virtue of the NBA) would be more GM based (talent influx) than coach based and would take 2-3 years. At the end of the day the ping pong balls dictate champions not coaches. In the NFL I feel like Belichick could turn around a garbage franchise quicker than any NBA coach could.
Oh, they definitely need some (a lot) more talent, but Pop is as good as it gets at maximizing the talent. I have no doubt KP would reach his ceiling under Pop.
a first rounder for Pat the Riley way back when. If Ujiri did in fact want to come here (and I don't see why he would), this is the sort of thing where Silver would likely have to get involved.
Big difference. The Knicks accused the Heat of tampering, the pick and money was a settlement. Riley was also a 50 year old HOF coach, Ujiri (while I like him) is not worth near that. It would be ridiculous.
a first rounder for Pat the Riley way back when. If Ujiri did in fact want to come here (and I don't see why he would), this is the sort of thing where Silver would likely have to get involved.
Big difference. The Knicks accused the Heat of tampering, the pick and money was a settlement. Riley was also a 50 year old HOF coach, Ujiri (while I like him) is not worth near that. It would be ridiculous.
the Celtics got a first rounder for Rivers. Yes he's a coach but there's no reason to think the Raptors' asking price would be any different as Ujiri is under contract for a while. But again, I don't see why he'd come here anyway.
Frank Ntilikina left his first practice with tape on his knee and appeared to walk gingerly.
You know, this isnt funny but!!!!! LMAO... All you can do is sit back and laugh at this point because this franchise is so cursed right now.... lets hope Frank is ok..
RE: i would not be shocked if knicks go after lowry
context the Raptors reportedly discussed the parameters of a 4 year 108 offer from the Raptors and Lowry declined it so the Knicks are going to outbid offers like that for a guy a year younger than Chris Paul? Melo/Lowry/Noah/Lee/KP... 6 seed time baby! With zero upside behind KP yes!!!
for some reason people think Lowry is some young chippy entering his prime, he's 2 years younger than Carmelo Anthony, 1 year younger than Noah, 7 months younger than Courtney Lee, he's actually 2.5 years OLDER than Derrick Rose.
woj reported this last year that dolan laid the ground work in case phil was fired, maybe he knows he can get him and that is why he finally pulled trigger?
i am ok with ujiri if he is a big enough name to keep dolan in the shadows
we just drafted a PG at 8. Sure he might be able to play the 2 and maybe that is where he ends up, but shouldnt we at least try him at PG before we overpay a middle of the road PG like Teague.
for some reason people think Lowry is some young chippy entering his prime, he's 2 years younger than Carmelo Anthony, 1 year younger than Noah, 7 months younger than Courtney Lee, he's actually 2.5 years OLDER than Derrick Rose.
It was recently pointed out to me that Rose has played 470 games. That's less than 6 seasons worth of games. Biyambo has 447 games played, and he's 24 years old.
is going to get anywhere near max money. Guys like teague and holliday are going to get in the ball park of 20 mill. They are not worth that, especially not worth it to the knicks. Everyone in the NBA gets overpaid, but it doesnt make any sense for the knicks to bring these guys in to win 30 games instead of 25.
of games played... Paul Millsap 11 NBA seasons, 837 games played, 76 games per season, in his draft year #2 is LMA (43 fewer games) and Gay 84 less games. Nuts.
wants to go cause the knicks is his dream job or whatever he would say to TOR they should let him within reason. I mean why keep on a GM he said he wanted to leave. That seems like a really bad move. Im not saying ujiri would work less or anything, but if your president wants to move on you might as well just let him. Take some of the knicks money and a draft pick and go from there.
Still, don't expect a reunion in New York. MLSE knows what it has in Ujiri and has done its part to ensure he stays put.
Ujiri, Webster and Jeff Weltman were given elevated job titles and raises in May of 2016 in an attempt to make poaching any of them harder. Weltman did end up leaving to become president in Orlando a month ago, but that was a promotion to head of basketball operations. Ujiri already has the highest title possible here and, if forced into a corner, MLSE would surely demand significant compensation from the Knicks.
wants to go cause the knicks is his dream job or whatever he would say to TOR they should let him within reason. I mean why keep on a GM he said he wanted to leave. That seems like a really bad move. Im not saying ujiri would work less or anything, but if your president wants to move on you might as well just let him. Take some of the knicks money and a draft pick and go from there.
"I am taking this NY job because I needed a new challenge -- building an NBA team without the crutch of just fleecing the Knicks in a trade."
I don't think Ujiri would allow that. He's too smart for that and wouldn't let Dolan do it. Atleast I hope.
If he were smart, he'd take the job, play off this supposed Dolan love, get a $60m deal, and then tank it to get fired and keep all his money like Larry Brown and Phil did.
BTW, nice job by our resident shirtless vlogger, Anak
Would mean Phil will quietly go away or not who cares
Give Allan Houston the keys
I was thinking the same thing. It was only what? 3-4 months ago that Dolan exercised that option?
Let Phil have his draft
Then look into a new direction
Hand the keys to Horny
I know we want Phil out, but if this means Melo stays than I'd be conflicted about it.
The problem with the Knicks stems from the guy in charge... I have zero confidence that if Phil were canned, we would bring in someone who understands how to build a team. We would be in the same mess as before... and before was a lot worse than it is today.
I assume there's some similar reasoning in the NBA. After a certain point, you let the guy do the draft and you have the next guy start at the beginning of the cycle.
Under that theory, it wouldn't make sense to bring in a new GM right before the draft. Then the guy's under-prepared for a huge decision that could either elevate the franchise or weigh it down for years.
Let me also say this: I'd take Sam Hinkie in a heartbeat.
I saw the (highly suspect) ESPN figures that said he has the highest chance to be a star of any kid in the draft. Also a very high chance of being a total bust. Whatever. Drafting an 18-year-old French point guard is a huge risk, triangle or no triangle. It was a bold gamble because the kid's got a very high ceiling. But the triangle is the least of it.
Following up on @WojVerticalNBA report re: Phil Jackson. Knicks sources indicate to ESPN clarity on his future expected in the morning.
Sources told ESPN "there's definitely been a conversation going on" between Phil & Dolan as both consider what's best for the Knicks future
What if we get a new President who decides we keep Melo, signns high priced FA's, and trades future draft picks and assets...
in hopes of having a viable product on the court this season and continue selling out the garden. Which in turnn keeps the owner happy and lining his pockets.
This is a business decision for Dolan (if he gets rid of Jackson) knowing losing Melo could also mean a loss in future revenue. Especially if Jackson was ever to consider buying out Carmelo as well.
Lastly, putting KP up on the trading block, didn't help Jackson's cause either. The internet almost had a meltdown. Dolan may know he has to put an end to this circus, that Jackson created
With the history of incompetence we've had to endure, I'm not confident we can assemble a front office that could do any better, than with what we already have.
Knicks and President Phil Jackson are expected to announce that they're parting ways early Wednesday morning, sources told ESPN.
2:59 AM Jun 28, 2017
Though the relationship between Dolan and Jackson had been deteriorating for some timethe two had not spoken in months except over textthe situation was brought to a breaking point by a series of recent developments. Most recently, Dolan was angered by Jacksons decision to publicly dangle young star Kristaps Porzingis in trade talks. Sources indicate that he was also upset by Jacksons selection of French guard Frank Ntilikina over North Carolina States Dennis Smith, Jr., in last weeks draft. Finally, Dolan had become annoyed by the fact that the Knicks will likely be unable to pursue any big name free agents this offseason as they are shackled by their large contractual commitments to Carmelo Anthony and Joakim Noah.
The division between Jackson and Dolan became so severe in recent weeks that it split the front office in half. There now existed a strong internal divide, with Dolans loyalists on one end and Jacksons faithful on the other. Sources indicate that one particular point of conflict between the two sides involved the prospect of re-signing free agent point guard Derrick Rose. Jacksons side was open to the idea of bringing back the controversial point guard while Dolans faction, which includes general manager Steve Mills, was staunchly opposed to the idea.
In Dolans view, firing Phil may have been the best of a few bad financial options. Dolan had recently been presented the options of buying out Anthony or Noahs contracts and was disinclined to do either. He felt that it would be cheaper to just fire Jackson, even if that meant paying some portion of the remaining money on his contract.
In addition to the financial incentives, Dolan believed firing Jackson may have had the added benefits of pleasing Porzingis and resolving the ongoing Carmelo Anthony debacle. Now that Jackson is gone, sources say, Anthony will likely not be bought out or traded and will instead stay in New York, as is his preference.
Jacksons sudden dismissal creates a number of questions for the future of the Knicks organization. The most immediate uncertainty has to do with who will be directing the front office as it enters this off-seasons free agency period. Incumbent general manager Steve Mills served as President of Basketball Operations prior to Jacksons 2014 hire, and it had been reported by several outlets that he still served as the primary point of contact for outside organizations during the Jackson regime. Sources tell Hoops Inq. that early candidates for the presidency will be former Knicks guard and current ABC commentator Mark Jackson and former Detroit Pistons president Joe Dumars.
Given Jacksons promotion of the triangle offense within the organization, his departure from the Knicks could have drastic implications for the teams on-court product. Head coach Jeff Hornacek, who Jackson hired last summer and who sources indicate may also be on his way out, initially distanced himself from the post-centric offense. By the seasons end, however, he had begun to voice a desire to commit the team entirely to the triangle. Though it has been reported that the offense was the focus of all the Knicks pre-draft workouts, it stands to reason that Jacksons dismissal could spell the end of the triangle in New York, especially given its reported unpopularity with incumbent players and free agents.
How the organization navigates these dilemmas is a question that will have to be answered by whoever is next to hold the teams presidency. Where the Knicks go next is up in the air; for now, all thats for certain is that Phil Jackson wont be leading them there.
HoopsInquirer - ( New Window )
1. Restore instant credibility to the franchise
2. Ala Pat Riley throw his rings on the table and convince stars to come here.
Well We some how now have even less credibility than before he came, and no star free agent will even take a meeting with us let alone come here. So I'd say Phil has been complete and utter mission failure. The quicker we move on the better. Give Houston a shot or bring a young hungry GM in here who is interested in building a franchise not take a up a hobby to make a ton of $ as a retirement position.
DOES DOLAN REALIZE KEEPING MELO HERE IS A BAD FUCKING IDEA?
Sorry for the caps, but the stupidity of this timing is a bit much to take.
Bad news (so far): Melo stays, Dolan didn't like the draft pick (though he had a concert that night) and Dumars is in the mix presumably because of Isiah.
1. Restore instant credibility to the franchise
2. Ala Pat Riley throw his rings on the table and convince stars to come here.
Well We some how now have even less credibility than before he came, and no star free agent will even take a meeting with us let alone come here. So I'd say Phil has been complete and utter mission failure. The quicker we move on the better. Give Houston a shot or bring a young hungry GM in here who is interested in building a franchise not take a up a hobby to make a ton of $ as a retirement position.
That having been said its very disturbing that he was allowed to make such a huge pick. I'm all for giving Frank a chance, but another GM may have wanted to go with another player, or worse, the remaining crew wanted someone else. This organization may set a record for clusterfuckness...
Bingo.
DOES DOLAN REALIZE KEEPING MELO HERE IS A BAD FUCKING IDEA?
Sorry for the caps, but the stupidity of this timing is a bit much to take.
DOESN'T HE REALIZE THAT KEEPING MELO IS A VERY, VERY BAD FUCKING IDEA?
Sorry for the caps, but the timing of the stupidity is difficult to believe. I guess KP and Melo won. And by "won", I mean Dolan is "hands on" again. Hooray ! (Or not.)
Bad news (so far): Melo stays, Dolan didn't like the draft pick (though he had a concert that night) and Dumars is in the mix presumably because of Isiah.
However, feuding publicly with Melo and KP was just stupid.
But what happens now? Free agency starts on July 1st. The trade market is open. Thus, the Knicks will be in limbo through this process. Why wasn't this decision made a month ago, before the draft.
Jackson is gone, but the real problem with this franchise, Dolan remains.
Id love to bring in a young exec or a guy like hinkie. No more former great players or coaches or whatever. Dont give the keys to mills/houston, that scenario worries me. I just dont feel confident in Houston for some reason.
Unless the NBA steps in, I am 61 and I doubt I will ever see a truly meaningful playoff series played by the NY Knicks again.
Isn't that what we said after IT?
Fixed
The other part of me is ecstatic he's gone, the triangle is gone, and hopefully the all too frequent media appearances of throwing the players under the bus is gone.
This is not a bad job for a prospective GM. Dolan did not interfere with Phil and he paid him a shit ton. You have KP, Willy, Frank, and your picks. I really hope that Dolan finds a talented and smart candidate, and not just a loyal guy.
anyway the timing sucks but the knicks are not going to be players in free agency anyway so who cares?
so his hornacek next?
Dolan time to spend your money on a top president
Hopefully Dolan is smart enough to build everything around him.
He's had the hots for him for a while apparently.
Oh happy day (oh happy day)
Oh happy day (oh happy day)
He's had the hots for him for a while apparently.
Getting Masai would be a grand slam but he signed an extension last year. I'm sure he would cost the Knicks some draft picks. Probably worth it though.
Very interested to hear the other targets. Why not offer RC Buford the same deal Phil got? Would he turn down all that money?
I'm just happy the Phil Jackson era is over.
But I think at the end it was the Melo situation that forced Dolan to act. I bet Phil told him that they have to buyout Melo, and Dolan said no.
Quote:
to throw everything he has at Masai Ujiri.
He's had the hots for him for a while apparently.
Getting Masai would be a grand slam but he signed an extension last year. I'm sure he would cost the Knicks some draft picks. Probably worth it though.
Very interested to hear the other targets. Why not offer RC Buford the same deal Phil got? Would he turn down all that money?
I'm just happy the Phil Jackson era is over.
i also wonder if they fire hornacek, or do they give him a chance to coach without phil's triangle influence
But I think at the end it was the Melo situation that forced Dolan to act. I bet Phil told him that they have to buyout Melo, and Dolan said no.
you know melo called dolan and said fire phil and knicks can sign cp3...
As someone who didn't like the Frank pick, it's salt in the wound to read that JD wanted DSJ. Holly smokes!
It sucks, because Jackson drove the rickety broken down Knicks into a ditch. But at least JD is taking away the keys. Maybe Dolan can finally turn things around.
But I think at the end it was the Melo situation that forced Dolan to act. I bet Phil told him that they have to buyout Melo, and Dolan said no.
I would agree with this.
KP comes out a victor here, but he needs to continue to act right.
It's tough to see Dolan agreeing to buyout Melo. The optics of that are just so shitty.
As an aside, how about Melo winning battles against the current coach of the year and an 11 time NBA champion? Go figure.
But why would toronto just let him go? knicks going to give them a 1st?
I'm glad he's gone, but the cancer still remains.
But I think at the end it was the Melo situation that forced Dolan to act. I bet Phil told him that they have to buyout Melo, and Dolan said no.
I'll never understand the buy out Melo chorus. Devaluing assets is all Phil was good at. Now you hope he plays well and you trade him at the deadline. Melo is a pro. He will accept a trade to a good team (as long as Phil isn't the guy making the trade)
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Reportedly is flat out scared of Masai (in a good way). Hankies, anyone but Allan Houston (was told he has no clue) thanks!
But why would toronto just let him go? knicks going to give them a 1st?
Oh they most certainly won't and he won't be a real option for this reason but Dolan thinks the world of Masai. I was told "Allan Houston is a great guy but fully unqualified"
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In comment 13513255 DanMetroMan said:
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Reportedly is flat out scared of Masai (in a good way). Hankies, anyone but Allan Houston (was told he has no clue) thanks!
But why would toronto just let him go? knicks going to give them a 1st?
Oh they most certainly won't and he won't be a real option for this reason but Dolan thinks the world of Masai. I was told "Allan Houston is a great guy but fully unqualified"
dolan is going to hire someone he thinks players respect, i dont think he liked hesring how players did not want to come tk new york because of phil...
we heard recently how melo wamted to stay, guarantee melo was in dolans ear...
he is going to hire griffin in hopes he can get the banana boat 4some in new yorm
I think it's why he was so loyal to Sather (Rangers), another HOF name.
I suspect the next President/GM will be a name. Maybe not Phil famous, but someone who is big enough to take all the heat if Dolan looks hands off.
That's $50,000 a day.
$50,000 a day.
Holy shit.
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Dolan also had told confidantes that Jacksons best asset was the fact the president took the heat off himself.
I think it's why he was so loyal to Sather (Rangers), another HOF name.
I suspect the next President/GM will be a name. Maybe not Phil famous, but someone who is big enough to take all the heat if Dolan looks hands off.
he wants what he has with the rangers, everyone says ohe doesnt like hockey so he stays away, no he stays away because sather is there..
There wasn't really a plan with Phil either, to be honest.
I'd like to see Dumars, but with Dolan around, don't be surprised if he reaches for somebody like Kevin McHale or the return of Isiah!
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.
There wasn't really a plan with Phil either, to be honest.
I mean, when is there a plan when you fire a GM?
We're rebuilding (aka we suck). There are really 2 ways to go about this. 1) slow burn drafting/development rebuild, 2) go out in FA and trade and get vets to be better quickly.
Pick one, and then you figure out what variation within those two options you're pursuing -- is slow rebuild, are you willing to get worse at first (e.g. the Process)? Are you playing it straight, keeping your picks and developing them? Or do you see value in making a strategic trade for a vet (e.g. the Wolves, either KG leadership or Butler talent acquisitions)? If going the vet route, are you supplementing your current core, trading them off, or stripping down to replicate the Summer of LeBron.
This isnt rocket science. Mostly its about drafting well and handing out good contracts. It's not easy, but it doesnt require a master plan.
That's $50,000 a day.
$50,000 a day.
Holy shit.
I think Larry Brown might have actually done better - on an earnings per day basis.
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From the post today
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Dolan also had told confidantes that Jacksons best asset was the fact the president took the heat off himself.
I think it's why he was so loyal to Sather (Rangers), another HOF name.
I suspect the next President/GM will be a name. Maybe not Phil famous, but someone who is big enough to take all the heat if Dolan looks hands off.
he wants what he has with the rangers, everyone says ohe doesnt like hockey so he stays away, no he stays away because sather is there..
Very true. He thought that's what he was getting in Phil. Say what you want about Dolan, but he was very hands off while Jackson was here lets just hope this time he hires a GM that actually knows what he's doing.
Perfect summary. People forget the Melo trade also had to do with Dolan panicking about Prokhorov & the Nets.
just because you never seen a player play doesnt make him a bad pick...
he passed on dennis smith who.plays no defense and has bad knees..
malik monk is a 6 foot 3 shooting guard, if he cant play point how succesful do you think he will be?
One question that I am curious about, assume Melo stays for the whole year, do you think he will opt out next year or would he opt in?
This, x1000. I'm not crazy about the job Jackson did either, but at least he had some sort of plan. It's entirely possible that it goes down hill from here. Allan Houston? Good lord..
Beer Man : 8:38 am : link : reply
Could coach a team, that didn't have the best players in the game, to a championship. For now, the answer isapparently not.
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slightly happy about Phil being gone when Dolan still owns the Knicks.
This, x1000. I'm not crazy about the job Jackson did either, but at least he had some sort of plan. It's entirely possible that it goes down hill from here. Allan Houston? Good lord..
Agree, although my issue with Phil is that he veered from his "plan" too often (re-signing Carmelo, bringing in a non triangle coach and aging vets on me first 1 year deals).
this is true - but Phil's issues went beyond the usual lousy free agent signings and stupid trades we have around here.
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slightly happy about Phil being gone when Dolan still owns the Knicks.
This, x1000. I'm not crazy about the job Jackson did either, but at least he had some sort of plan. It's entirely possible that it goes down hill from here. Allan Houston? Good lord..
Phil's "plan" changed several different times here. That was one of his problems.
And on and on it will go.
And on and on it will go.
Pretty much. The heat is squarely on Dolan, Melo and KP now. I think they're gonna miss having their scapegoat to kick around.
the precailing thought is dolan is basically afraid of him
Wow, this is possibly the post of the year.
he's definitely overrated, but he'd be a step up in quality for us.
Outside of his pillaging of the Knicks, what has Ujiri done since he left Denver? All of the best players (and the coach) on Toronto were already there when he got the job. Most of his draft picks have sucked.
The Orlando Magic will send the Toronto Raptors a 2018 second-round draft pick as compensation for hiring new president of basketball operations Jeff Weltman, league sources told The Vertical.
Usually yes. Looks like the going rate is a 2nd round pick
But Phil needs to go. His ego is too big and the current well of young talent shouldn't be poisoned.
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of the last time a team poached an executive, and the compensation that it required?
The Orlando Magic will send the Toronto Raptors a 2018 second-round draft pick as compensation for hiring new president of basketball operations Jeff Weltman, league sources told The Vertical.
That's really not all that bad.
President, Bobby Webster is the GM
The issue, as it's always been, is Dolan and whether he'll be hands off and willing to wait.
Ujiri pulled it on Dolan. Walsh had parameters to make the trade, Dolan came in,blew them up & basically told Ujiri we'll give you whatever you want for Melo!
I think in order, Phil's biggest mistakes were:
1) Organizational triangle mandate
2) Melo NTC
3) Noah contract
4) (If true) His willingness to bring Rose back.
All that said, Carmelo Anthony did no favors for Phil or this organization. Aside from the fact that many wanted Melo back, I think Phil tried to mentally challenge Melo into becoming a leader of the team.
Instead of building trust with one another, their relationship evaporated, throw in the NTC and at that point the flood gates opened up. The truth about Melo is that he never bought in and never seemed to value leadership or prioritize winning.
The Rose deal was a very reasonable, very low risk/high reward move. I actually thought that was a decent gamble that didnt work out. Any interest level in him at this point is totally nuts. If it's true Phil was open to that...there's another mistake.
As far as KP? I can't be a hypocrite. I screamed when they took him. I thought he was just another skinny Euro and I was devastated (kind of still am) that they missed out on KAT because they played to win games down the stretch of that season. However, it is a credit to Phil that the KP pick was a home run. I think all the noise surrounding him last week was mostly overreaction. I would listen to every offer with the amount of future assets some teams have and the current "meaningless" state of trying to win anything in the NBA short term.
All in all, there is some sense of relief, but also what do we do now? More than that I think the prevailing thought is, so we still have to watch Carmelo Anthony?
Get ready to pick 8, 9 or 10 again.
The pentagon
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In comment 13513344 Jon in NYC said:
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of the last time a team poached an executive, and the compensation that it required?
The Orlando Magic will send the Toronto Raptors a 2018 second-round draft pick as compensation for hiring new president of basketball operations Jeff Weltman, league sources told The Vertical.
That's really not all that bad.
Do we have any 2nd round picks in the immediate future or do the Sixers have them all?
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is flat out scared of Ujiri. I've mentioned this before but Dolan blocked the Lowry deal mostly because he had been so "impressed" by whatever Ujiri pulled in the Melo negotiations.
Ujiri pulled it on Dolan. Walsh had parameters to make the trade, Dolan came in,blew them up & basically told Ujiri we'll give you whatever you want for Melo!
I think that is something people want to believe because they hate Dolan so much. If the deal were agreed to then that's that. Not even Dolan is that dumb. Ujiri was holding out for more and threatening to sent Melo to the Nets. Dolan did get involved at this point but there was no "deal". Dolan got spooked.
So maybe someone looking for a big final paycheck but otherwise?
The Knick organization is a joke. Being fair, is it really realistic for anyone with vision to think that they can fix this mess with the glare of the media and an irrational and paranoid owner?
This. He's also set to make 3x the money if he bails.
This organization is just a complete dumpster fire. It's embarrassing that they really haven't been relevant in almost two decades.
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In comment 13513343 DanMetroMan said:
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is flat out scared of Ujiri. I've mentioned this before but Dolan blocked the Lowry deal mostly because he had been so "impressed" by whatever Ujiri pulled in the Melo negotiations.
Ujiri pulled it on Dolan. Walsh had parameters to make the trade, Dolan came in,blew them up & basically told Ujiri we'll give you whatever you want for Melo!
I think that is something people want to believe because they hate Dolan so much. If the deal were agreed to then that's that. Not even Dolan is that dumb. Ujiri was holding out for more and threatening to sent Melo to the Nets. Dolan did get involved at this point but there was no "deal". Dolan got spooked.
It's not about believing something, it's about what happened. Walsh was negotiating the deal, then he got "dismissed" & Dolan took over. You're right about the Nets being part of the equation but Melo (who allegedly only wanted to play for the Knicks) forced the Knicks hand to give up the farm to get him (& you're right,Ujiri parlayed that into a tremendous return on an asset they wanted to move),thus valuing $$$ more than playing for a winning team!
I agree. Dolan stayed out of Phil's hair, and plainly is more interested in his band and attending games than running things. The NYR job has been a good one for a while.
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Tim Leiweke, who hired Masai Ujiri in Toronto, is advising the Knicks on their direction.
Dan, don't disagree w/that. I think Dolan realized he was played for a fool after the fact & that has stuck w/him. I remember reading an article, maybe a year later, where Dolan talked about the fact he has to stay out of negotiations, w/o ever specifically saying the Melo deal was the impetus!
In Knicks news: League sources say former Raptors exec Tim Leiweke is poised to help them as an advisor in wake of Phil Jackson's exit.
he's also a business partner of Dolan buddy Irving Azoff.
I certainly hope so. Frank's value wasn't tied to the triangle. Yes, he would have fit, but shooting and defense fit in any system.
If he thinks it's ugly now,with all the jokes and criticism,I think it's only gonna get worse.
But for the NBA, I don't know the extent of which teams can block people from leaving for another job, be it equal or greater than their present job.
Anybody have insight?
walsh was awful
Yeah man, varied interests, gotta keep up. Don't forget my 1,040 followers!
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He seems to be the only guy running the team who had a good plan and tried to stay with it. Everyone else kept switching on the fly from playoff contending to rebuilding or visa versa. My big knock on Walsh was not moving up in the draft to get Curry but who knows if it was even doable or if Dolan got involved. But I thought with Walsh in the picture there was a professional running the team and Dolan firing him makes me think Dolan is the main screw up here. Is Walsh the one who cleared all the big crappy contracts years ago?
walsh was awful
Walsh was much better than Layden, Isiah, and Jackson.
I think in order, Phil's biggest mistakes were:
1) Organizational triangle mandate
2) Melo NTC
3) Noah contract
4) (If true) His willingness to bring Rose back.
I have a hard time taking seriously the argument that Melo's NTC was worse than the Noah contract. People are a little too nuts on the Melo issue IMO, as if Melo is the key malady holding this team back.
Kyle Lowry is 32 in March, Chris Paul is 33 in May. I have a hard time taking anyone seriously that wants Kyle Lowry for this team.
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In comment 13513403 Samiam said:
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He seems to be the only guy running the team who had a good plan and tried to stay with it. Everyone else kept switching on the fly from playoff contending to rebuilding or visa versa. My big knock on Walsh was not moving up in the draft to get Curry but who knows if it was even doable or if Dolan got involved. But I thought with Walsh in the picture there was a professional running the team and Dolan firing him makes me think Dolan is the main screw up here. Is Walsh the one who cleared all the big crappy contracts years ago?
walsh was awful
Walsh was much better than Layden, Isiah, and Jackson.
Walsh was better than all 3 combined. People forget he didn't want to trade for Melo. His biggest failure was not luring Lebron, which was due to a lot more than Walsh. The Amare deal wasn't great in sum, but put the Knicks back on the map and into contention at first. On balance, the best job done of any of these schmucks since Dolan took over.
The point is, by bringing back Melo Phil bet on himself that he could reach/motivate Melo to buy in. With the NTC he clearly didnt leave himself much of a safety net in the worst case scenario which eventually played out.
Everything Phil did was based on the premise that Melo bought into his system.
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In comment 13513407 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 13513403 Samiam said:
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He seems to be the only guy running the team who had a good plan and tried to stay with it. Everyone else kept switching on the fly from playoff contending to rebuilding or visa versa. My big knock on Walsh was not moving up in the draft to get Curry but who knows if it was even doable or if Dolan got involved. But I thought with Walsh in the picture there was a professional running the team and Dolan firing him makes me think Dolan is the main screw up here. Is Walsh the one who cleared all the big crappy contracts years ago?
walsh was awful
Walsh was much better than Layden, Isiah, and Jackson.
Walsh was better than all 3 combined. People forget he didn't want to trade for Melo. His biggest failure was not luring Lebron, which was due to a lot more than Walsh. The Amare deal wasn't great in sum, but put the Knicks back on the map and into contention at first. On balance, the best job done of any of these schmucks since Dolan took over.
that was his worst move?
how about trading crawford and zach randolph for nothing..
how about trading a first round pick to get ris of jefferies BEFORE he knew if he couks sign anyone...
how about being the biggest lous mouth when it came to the media, the guy had more leaks then titanic after getting hit by an iceberg...
how about trying to win games the 2 years before phil rather than just tanking for 2 years...
The point is, by bringing back Melo Phil bet on himself that he could reach/motivate Melo to buy in. With the NTC he clearly didnt leave himself much of a safety net in the worst case scenario which eventually played out.
Everything Phil did was based on the premise that Melo bought into his system.
I think bringing back Melo was a must (the Knicks were 100% not going to go into full rebuild anyway). Was the NTC unncessary? Maybe. But I think at the time that it was fairly assumed that Melo would waive it if the team didnt develop, and that it was really there to give him reasonable leverage on where he'd go next. I dont think anyone anticipated that he'd knock up some side piece, leading his wife to divorce him, and force him to want to stick around to be in the same city as his kid.
I think the Melo deal was a reasonable gamble. You have to evaluate decisions ex ante to some degree, and not just on whether they worked out. The Noah deal was just ridiculous. Too many years, too much money, too injured, and no appreciable upside because we simply arent in a contending window. So I think the order isnt the issue -- putting the Melo and Noah deals next to eachother is far too kind to the Noah deal.
Not only was nothing about him great, but he also cost us LeBron by being in that fucking wheelchair and slobbering all over the place during the presentation.
Not only was nothing about him great, but he also cost us LeBron by being in that fucking wheelchair and slobbering all over the place during the presentation.
I really think the issue was that the Heat cleared out the cap for 3 near-max contracts, and CAA represented all 3 guys and put it together.
Walsh's biggest mistake in courting Lebron, IMO, was jumping the gun. The Knicks open flirtation and cap clearing moves, which led to so much chatter, I think motivated other teams to get in on the LeBron sweepstakes. I cant prove that. But mostly I think Miami's salary cap, CAA, and already having Wade was the key here; Patty gets a bit too much credit.
That rumor has always bugged me and if that truly made a difference than LeBron James and his people are even bigger assholes than that process showed them to be.
Everything else was a dog and pony show so that LeBron could get his ego stroked.
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In comment 13513423 Jay on the Island said:
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In comment 13513407 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 13513403 Samiam said:
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He seems to be the only guy running the team who had a good plan and tried to stay with it. Everyone else kept switching on the fly from playoff contending to rebuilding or visa versa. My big knock on Walsh was not moving up in the draft to get Curry but who knows if it was even doable or if Dolan got involved. But I thought with Walsh in the picture there was a professional running the team and Dolan firing him makes me think Dolan is the main screw up here. Is Walsh the one who cleared all the big crappy contracts years ago?
walsh was awful
Walsh was much better than Layden, Isiah, and Jackson.
Walsh was better than all 3 combined. People forget he didn't want to trade for Melo. His biggest failure was not luring Lebron, which was due to a lot more than Walsh. The Amare deal wasn't great in sum, but put the Knicks back on the map and into contention at first. On balance, the best job done of any of these schmucks since Dolan took over.
that was his worst move?
how about trading crawford and zach randolph for nothing..
how about trading a first round pick to get ris of jefferies BEFORE he knew if he couks sign anyone...
how about being the biggest lous mouth when it came to the media, the guy had more leaks then titanic after getting hit by an iceberg...
how about trying to win games the 2 years before phil rather than just tanking for 2 years...
You don't like his style, fine...but every move you cite was done to get us out of eternal cap hell, which he stated was his plan and he achieved.
Now, did he or anyone else succeed in building a winner from there? No...but that alone made him better than anyone before or since after about 199.
And knocking him for being in a wheelchair for the Lebron meeting is pretty pathetic. The fact Lebrons team of jerkoffs mocked him for that after was weak on their part, not a knock on Dolan.
Nobody is saying Walsh was Red Auerbach. Just that he was better than Layden, Isaiah and Jax
Amnestys Billups after picking up his option
All in 2 mins
In all fairness, Phil's advice in that picture is wise.
Amnestys Billups after picking up his option
All in 2 mins
I've always been partial to Ed Tapscott. During his 2 minutes as interim prez and GM he managed to use a 1st round pick on Frederic Weis. That's tough to top when it comes to sucking
Suckers.
Suckers.
You'd think by now we'd learn. Well played
Amnestys Billups after picking up his option
All in 2 mins
"afraid the facts mixed up"
Walsh picked up Billups' option. Grunwald was supposedly forced out because he was AGAINST the Bargs trade.
Sore subject.
Knicks could hire Putin next and this fan base is so broken we'd be like "let's see how this plays out"
Sore subject.
Yeah, I was just kidding around. That was some nonsense people were floating around around that time - I'm really just mocking the idea that it was what actually cost us LeBron. Obviously it wasn't.
I still didn't think much of Walsh, but... none of that really matters now.
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Guy was here 2 mins and traded for Bargs
Amnestys Billups after picking up his option
All in 2 mins
"afraid the facts mixed up"
Walsh picked up Billups' option. Grunwald was supposedly forced out because he was AGAINST the Bargs trade.
Grunwald was probably actually the most competent of the recent GM's here.
Grunwald was probably actually the most competent of the recent GM's here.
Exactly.
Amnestys Billups after picking up his option
All in 2 mins
And traded garbage for Tyson Chandler.
And signed Jeremy Lin off the scrap heap.
And signed Jason Kidd.
And signed JR Smith for pennies.
And signed Steve Novak off the scrap heap.
And signed Pablo Prigioni.
And drafted Shumpert and Hardaway Jr. with bottom half of the 1st round picks.
The team won 54 fucking games in 2012-2013 with this guy running the team and 70 out of 100 over a 2 year span. When is that happening again?
it was likely some awful combination of CAA influence, Dolan, and Mills.
I don't see that happening - but if there's a point where someone says "I've finally had enough, I'm done with the Knicks," I think that'd be a pretty heavy straw.
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will lose my fucking mind if Dolan gives up 1st round picks for Ujiri.
I don't see that happening - but if there's a point where someone says "I've finally had enough, I'm done with the Knicks," I think that'd be a pretty heavy straw.
Raptors beat guy Ryan Wolstat is pretty tied in and he insists they not only would need 1 1st it would be multiple. Even one first would make me absolutely bonkers. I think Bill Belichick is the only coach/exec worth a 1st round pick in any sport and the NBA 1sts are that much more valuable.
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In comment 13513558 DanMetroMan said:
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will lose my fucking mind if Dolan gives up 1st round picks for Ujiri.
I don't see that happening - but if there's a point where someone says "I've finally had enough, I'm done with the Knicks," I think that'd be a pretty heavy straw.
Raptors beat guy Ryan Wolstat is pretty tied in and he insists they not only would need 1 1st it would be multiple. Even one first would make me absolutely bonkers. I think Bill Belichick is the only coach/exec worth a 1st round pick in any sport and the NBA 1sts are that much more valuable.
If you told me Popovich would coach another 5+ years, I'd consider a (top 5, if not top 10 protected) 1st for him.
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Jackson was on the job for 1200 days. He made $60 million.
That's $50,000 a day.
$50,000 a day.
Holy shit.
I think Larry Brown might have actually done better - on an earnings per day basis.
This is a nice flashing light of a hot take (courtesy of Darren Rovell) but the reality is that even if Phil had been a success and had worked through his whole contract, he was due $33K per day. It was always a big number.
Oh, they definitely need some (a lot) more talent, but Pop is as good as it gets at maximizing the talent. I have no doubt KP would reach his ceiling under Pop.
Big difference. The Knicks accused the Heat of tampering, the pick and money was a settlement. Riley was also a 50 year old HOF coach, Ujiri (while I like him) is not worth near that. It would be ridiculous.
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With Phil out & the triangle de-emphasized, there is mutual interest between PG Jeff Teague & NYK.
The new Herb Williams.
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is Rambis still employed? ugh
The new Herb Williams.
Don't diss Herb. He was infinitely less destructive than Rambis. Outside of Phil, literally no one liked Rambis.
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a first rounder for Pat the Riley way back when. If Ujiri did in fact want to come here (and I don't see why he would), this is the sort of thing where Silver would likely have to get involved.
Big difference. The Knicks accused the Heat of tampering, the pick and money was a settlement. Riley was also a 50 year old HOF coach, Ujiri (while I like him) is not worth near that. It would be ridiculous.
the Celtics got a first rounder for Rivers. Yes he's a coach but there's no reason to think the Raptors' asking price would be any different as Ujiri is under contract for a while. But again, I don't see why he'd come here anyway.
Or Blake is getting the super max?
Dekker, Houston 1st, Austin Rivers, Crawford and a future 1.
Link - ( New Window )
It's utterly bonkers if true.
stupid move but with this new guy running the team he has a raptir connection and i believe he brought in lowry
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Frank Ntilikina left his first practice with tape on his knee and appeared to walk gingerly.
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Frank Ntilikina left his first practice with tape on his knee and appeared to walk gingerly.
You know, this isnt funny but!!!!! LMAO... All you can do is sit back and laugh at this point because this franchise is so cursed right now.... lets hope Frank is ok..
stupid move but with this new guy running the team he has a raptir connection and i believe he brought in lowry
Lowry is going to need max money to come to the Knicks. That would be beyond ridiculous. I think I'd finally turn in my Knicks card. Go Kings.
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frank learns behind him...
stupid move but with this new guy running the team he has a raptir connection and i believe he brought in lowry
Lowry is going to need max money to come to the Knicks. That would be beyond ridiculous. I think I'd finally turn in my Knicks card. Go Kings.
haha i am waoting for the explosion
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frank learns behind him...
stupid move but with this new guy running the team he has a raptir connection and i believe he brought in lowry
Lowry is going to need max money to come to the Knicks. That would be beyond ridiculous. I think I'd finally turn in my Knicks card. Go Kings.
You have too many ultimatums about what would cause you to stop being a Knicks fan. Why is Lowry the hill to die on but not Noah?
#Knicks are fairly confident they could land Masai Ujiri, a source tells @HoopsInq
12:35 PM - 28 Jun 2017
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Nick Martinez @NickMartinezNY
#Knicks are fairly confident they could land Masai Ujiri, a source tells @HoopsInq
12:35 PM - 28 Jun 2017
Nick Martinez, he of 76 twitter followers
Right but you didnt turn in your fan card
woj reported this last year that dolan laid the ground work in case phil was fired, maybe he knows he can get him and that is why he finally pulled trigger?
i am ok with ujiri if he is a big enough name to keep dolan in the shadows
Fran FraschillaVerified account @franfraschilla 3m3 minutes ago
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So the Knicks want to run now with Hornacek but Dennis Smith, Jr. is in Dallas.
He was the guy hyping up Frank...
It was recently pointed out to me that Rose has played 470 games. That's less than 6 seasons worth of games. Biyambo has 447 games played, and he's 24 years old.
I really hope they can lock up Ujiri and soon. The Raps can't hold him hostage there.
Ujiri, Webster and Jeff Weltman were given elevated job titles and raises in May of 2016 in an attempt to make poaching any of them harder. Weltman did end up leaving to become president in Orlando a month ago, but that was a promotion to head of basketball operations. Ujiri already has the highest title possible here and, if forced into a corner, MLSE would surely demand significant compensation from the Knicks.
Yes. The Knicks are dumb. They would need to make cap space first. But more likely is that someone else maxes him, likely LAC.
"I am taking this NY job because I needed a new challenge -- building an NBA team without the crutch of just fleecing the Knicks in a trade."
I don't think Ujiri would allow that. He's too smart for that and wouldn't let Dolan do it. Atleast I hope.
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I'm gonna fucking strangle someone.
I don't think Ujiri would allow that. He's too smart for that and wouldn't let Dolan do it. Atleast I hope.
If he were smart, he'd take the job, play off this supposed Dolan love, get a $60m deal, and then tank it to get fired and keep all his money like Larry Brown and Phil did.