Adrian Wojnarowski& #8207;Verified account @WojVerticalNBA
Owner James Dolan is weighing the future of Phil Jackson as New York Knicks President, league sources tell @TheVertical. Story online soon.
The last thing I want, is someone new to come in, feel a need to prove themselves with some foolish trades/signings, and leave us worse off than we already are. Phil is not great by any means, but at least he has this organization moving in the right direction, albeit by accident.
The problem with the Knicks stems from the guy in charge... I have zero confidence that if Phil were canned, we would bring in someone who understands how to build a team. We would be in the same mess as before... and before was a lot worse than it is today.
being "done" with this team if Rose is re-signed or KP is traded, but I would truly be done forever if Isiah is named president or GM. I'd expect Mills and Houston to take over - two idiots who have their fingerprints all over the last 20 years of ineptitude. Neither would have jobs in the league if not for Jimmy.
and just before free agency. I like Frank, but you let Phil draft a good triangle fit and then fire him a week later? Can we do anything right?
I heard an NFL front office expert break this down after some NFL team (the Bills?) fired their GM right after the draft. He said the reasoning is: Prepping for the draft takes months. Once that process is under way, you can't easily start it over again. So you let the guy do the thing he's prepped to do and have the new guy start fresh and have the full year to prep for the next draft.
I assume there's some similar reasoning in the NBA. After a certain point, you let the guy do the draft and you have the next guy start at the beginning of the cycle.
Under that theory, it wouldn't make sense to bring in a new GM right before the draft. Then the guy's under-prepared for a huge decision that could either elevate the franchise or weigh it down for years.
because the French kid is supposed to be good for the triangle. But he's also supposed to have the potential to be good, period. So if he can shoot, penetrate, distribute, play defense, and is a good kid, how is the possibility that he might suit the triangle a negative.
I saw the (highly suspect) ESPN figures that said he has the highest chance to be a star of any kid in the draft. Also a very high chance of being a total bust. Whatever. Drafting an 18-year-old French point guard is a huge risk, triangle or no triangle. It was a bold gamble because the kid's got a very high ceiling. But the triangle is the least of it.
Ramona Shelburne ✔@ramonashelburne
Following up on @WojVerticalNBA report re: Phil Jackson. Knicks sources indicate to ESPN clarity on his future expected in the morning.
Ramona ShelburneVerified account @ramonashelburne
Sources told ESPN "there's definitely been a conversation going on" between Phil & Dolan as both consider what's best for the Knicks future
What if we get a new President who decides we keep Melo, signns high priced FA's, and trades future draft picks and assets...
in hopes of having a viable product on the court this season and continue selling out the garden. Which in turnn keeps the owner happy and lining his pockets.
This is a business decision for Dolan (if he gets rid of Jackson) knowing losing Melo could also mean a loss in future revenue. Especially if Jackson was ever to consider buying out Carmelo as well.
Lastly, putting KP up on the trading block, didn't help Jackson's cause either. The internet almost had a meltdown. Dolan may know he has to put an end to this circus, that Jackson created
With the history of incompetence we've had to endure, I'm not confident we can assemble a front office that could do any better, than with what we already have.
Mills and Houston will likely take over, and Melo is here another two seasons, stunting the growth of the young guys and costing us precious spots in the draft order - assuming we even keep our picks.
LITERALLY just tried to trade our best draft pick in 30 years. And wanted to resign Rose. And it's been confirmed FAs look at the Knicks as a last resort. I'm pretty sure we can only go up from here.
After three seasons, four head coaches, and 166 losses, the Phil Jackson era has come to a crashing end in New York. After holding a meeting late tonight with high ranking Knicks officials to discuss Jacksons future with the organization, team owner James Dolan made the final decision to fire Jackson from his position as President of Basketball Operations effective immediately, sources tell Hoops Inq.
Though the relationship between Dolan and Jackson had been deteriorating for some timethe two had not spoken in months except over textthe situation was brought to a breaking point by a series of recent developments. Most recently, Dolan was angered by Jacksons decision to publicly dangle young star Kristaps Porzingis in trade talks. Sources indicate that he was also upset by Jacksons selection of French guard Frank Ntilikina over North Carolina States Dennis Smith, Jr., in last weeks draft. Finally, Dolan had become annoyed by the fact that the Knicks will likely be unable to pursue any big name free agents this offseason as they are shackled by their large contractual commitments to Carmelo Anthony and Joakim Noah.
The division between Jackson and Dolan became so severe in recent weeks that it split the front office in half. There now existed a strong internal divide, with Dolans loyalists on one end and Jacksons faithful on the other. Sources indicate that one particular point of conflict between the two sides involved the prospect of re-signing free agent point guard Derrick Rose. Jacksons side was open to the idea of bringing back the controversial point guard while Dolans faction, which includes general manager Steve Mills, was staunchly opposed to the idea.
In Dolans view, firing Phil may have been the best of a few bad financial options. Dolan had recently been presented the options of buying out Anthony or Noahs contracts and was disinclined to do either. He felt that it would be cheaper to just fire Jackson, even if that meant paying some portion of the remaining money on his contract.
In addition to the financial incentives, Dolan believed firing Jackson may have had the added benefits of pleasing Porzingis and resolving the ongoing Carmelo Anthony debacle. Now that Jackson is gone, sources say, Anthony will likely not be bought out or traded and will instead stay in New York, as is his preference.
Jacksons sudden dismissal creates a number of questions for the future of the Knicks organization. The most immediate uncertainty has to do with who will be directing the front office as it enters this off-seasons free agency period. Incumbent general manager Steve Mills served as President of Basketball Operations prior to Jacksons 2014 hire, and it had been reported by several outlets that he still served as the primary point of contact for outside organizations during the Jackson regime. Sources tell Hoops Inq. that early candidates for the presidency will be former Knicks guard and current ABC commentator Mark Jackson and former Detroit Pistons president Joe Dumars.
Given Jacksons promotion of the triangle offense within the organization, his departure from the Knicks could have drastic implications for the teams on-court product. Head coach Jeff Hornacek, who Jackson hired last summer and who sources indicate may also be on his way out, initially distanced himself from the post-centric offense. By the seasons end, however, he had begun to voice a desire to commit the team entirely to the triangle. Though it has been reported that the offense was the focus of all the Knicks pre-draft workouts, it stands to reason that Jacksons dismissal could spell the end of the triangle in New York, especially given its reported unpopularity with incumbent players and free agents.
How the organization navigates these dilemmas is a question that will have to be answered by whoever is next to hold the teams presidency. Where the Knicks go next is up in the air; for now, all thats for certain is that Phil Jackson wont be leading them there.
He was brought here for 2 reasons:
1. Restore instant credibility to the franchise
2. Ala Pat Riley throw his rings on the table and convince stars to come here.
Well We some how now have even less credibility than before he came, and no star free agent will even take a meeting with us let alone come here. So I'd say Phil has been complete and utter mission failure. The quicker we move on the better. Give Houston a shot or bring a young hungry GM in here who is interested in building a franchise not take a up a hobby to make a ton of $ as a retirement position.
Phil's out, Rambis out, Derrick Rose out (most likely).
Bad news (so far): Melo stays, Dolan didn't like the draft pick (though he had a concert that night) and Dumars is in the mix presumably because of Isiah.
He was brought here for 2 reasons:
1. Restore instant credibility to the franchise
2. Ala Pat Riley throw his rings on the table and convince stars to come here.
Well We some how now have even less credibility than before he came, and no star free agent will even take a meeting with us let alone come here. So I'd say Phil has been complete and utter mission failure. The quicker we move on the better. Give Houston a shot or bring a young hungry GM in here who is interested in building a franchise not take a up a hobby to make a ton of $ as a retirement position.
That having been said its very disturbing that he was allowed to make such a huge pick. I'm all for giving Frank a chance, but another GM may have wanted to go with another player, or worse, the remaining crew wanted someone else. This organization may set a record for clusterfuckness...
Mills and Houston will likely take over, and Melo is here another two seasons, stunting the growth of the young guys and costing us precious spots in the draft order - assuming we even keep our picks.
DOESN'T HE REALIZE THAT KEEPING MELO IS A VERY, VERY BAD FUCKING IDEA?
Sorry for the caps, but the timing of the stupidity is difficult to believe. I guess KP and Melo won. And by "won", I mean Dolan is "hands on" again. Hooray ! (Or not.)
Phil's out, Rambis out, Derrick Rose out (most likely).
Bad news (so far): Melo stays, Dolan didn't like the draft pick (though he had a concert that night) and Dumars is in the mix presumably because of Isiah.
Jackson probably was a poor choice as GM although he had the right idea about building through the draft, not trading about picks Willy Nilly, and moving away from ISO-Melo.
However, feuding publicly with Melo and KP was just stupid.
But what happens now? Free agency starts on July 1st. The trade market is open. Thus, the Knicks will be in limbo through this process. Why wasn't this decision made a month ago, before the draft.
Jackson is gone, but the real problem with this franchise, Dolan remains.
Of course it adds to the circus that is the NY knicks..
but this is a good move. I had such high hopes for Jackson, i figured he at least would bring us credibility, but he was a mess. I honestly did not hate a lot of his moves when we made them. That said the way he has handled the melo situation has been horrible and now he is working on alienating KP.
Id love to bring in a young exec or a guy like hinkie. No more former great players or coaches or whatever. Dont give the keys to mills/houston, that scenario worries me. I just dont feel confident in Houston for some reason.
The one constant is Dolan. His overruling panic trade to get Melo all those years ago, set the franchise, which was just about to be in a good place, down this road. His hiring decisions are awful and he doesn't have any idea how to be the owner that complements the professionals, as opposed to be the owner that detracts and derails.
Unless the NBA steps in, I am 61 and I doubt I will ever see a truly meaningful playoff series played by the NY Knicks again.
LITERALLY just tried to trade our best draft pick in 30 years. And wanted to resign Rose. And it's been confirmed FAs look at the Knicks as a last resort. I'm pretty sure we can only go up from here.
Part of me asks whether it made sense to let Phil take Frank if you were this close to firing him. I get the need to prep for the draft, I just wonder how different it is for the NBA with less picks and a relatively better known universe of "top talent" vs. the NFL.
The other part of me is ecstatic he's gone, the triangle is gone, and hopefully the all too frequent media appearances of throwing the players under the bus is gone.
for all we know, Dolan's objection was that Phil thinks the rebuild could take so long that we're still bad when KP hits FA.
This is not a bad job for a prospective GM. Dolan did not interfere with Phil and he paid him a shit ton. You have KP, Willy, Frank, and your picks. I really hope that Dolan finds a talented and smart candidate, and not just a loyal guy.
Would mean Phil will quietly go away or not who cares
Give Allan Houston the keys
I was thinking the same thing. It was only what? 3-4 months ago that Dolan exercised that option?
Let Phil have his draft
Then look into a new direction
Hand the keys to Horny
I know we want Phil out, but if this means Melo stays than I'd be conflicted about it.
The problem with the Knicks stems from the guy in charge... I have zero confidence that if Phil were canned, we would bring in someone who understands how to build a team. We would be in the same mess as before... and before was a lot worse than it is today.
I assume there's some similar reasoning in the NBA. After a certain point, you let the guy do the draft and you have the next guy start at the beginning of the cycle.
Under that theory, it wouldn't make sense to bring in a new GM right before the draft. Then the guy's under-prepared for a huge decision that could either elevate the franchise or weigh it down for years.
Let me also say this: I'd take Sam Hinkie in a heartbeat.
I saw the (highly suspect) ESPN figures that said he has the highest chance to be a star of any kid in the draft. Also a very high chance of being a total bust. Whatever. Drafting an 18-year-old French point guard is a huge risk, triangle or no triangle. It was a bold gamble because the kid's got a very high ceiling. But the triangle is the least of it.
Following up on @WojVerticalNBA report re: Phil Jackson. Knicks sources indicate to ESPN clarity on his future expected in the morning.
Sources told ESPN "there's definitely been a conversation going on" between Phil & Dolan as both consider what's best for the Knicks future
What if we get a new President who decides we keep Melo, signns high priced FA's, and trades future draft picks and assets...
in hopes of having a viable product on the court this season and continue selling out the garden. Which in turnn keeps the owner happy and lining his pockets.
This is a business decision for Dolan (if he gets rid of Jackson) knowing losing Melo could also mean a loss in future revenue. Especially if Jackson was ever to consider buying out Carmelo as well.
Lastly, putting KP up on the trading block, didn't help Jackson's cause either. The internet almost had a meltdown. Dolan may know he has to put an end to this circus, that Jackson created
With the history of incompetence we've had to endure, I'm not confident we can assemble a front office that could do any better, than with what we already have.
Knicks and President Phil Jackson are expected to announce that they're parting ways early Wednesday morning, sources told ESPN.
2:59 AM Jun 28, 2017
Though the relationship between Dolan and Jackson had been deteriorating for some timethe two had not spoken in months except over textthe situation was brought to a breaking point by a series of recent developments. Most recently, Dolan was angered by Jacksons decision to publicly dangle young star Kristaps Porzingis in trade talks. Sources indicate that he was also upset by Jacksons selection of French guard Frank Ntilikina over North Carolina States Dennis Smith, Jr., in last weeks draft. Finally, Dolan had become annoyed by the fact that the Knicks will likely be unable to pursue any big name free agents this offseason as they are shackled by their large contractual commitments to Carmelo Anthony and Joakim Noah.
The division between Jackson and Dolan became so severe in recent weeks that it split the front office in half. There now existed a strong internal divide, with Dolans loyalists on one end and Jacksons faithful on the other. Sources indicate that one particular point of conflict between the two sides involved the prospect of re-signing free agent point guard Derrick Rose. Jacksons side was open to the idea of bringing back the controversial point guard while Dolans faction, which includes general manager Steve Mills, was staunchly opposed to the idea.
In Dolans view, firing Phil may have been the best of a few bad financial options. Dolan had recently been presented the options of buying out Anthony or Noahs contracts and was disinclined to do either. He felt that it would be cheaper to just fire Jackson, even if that meant paying some portion of the remaining money on his contract.
In addition to the financial incentives, Dolan believed firing Jackson may have had the added benefits of pleasing Porzingis and resolving the ongoing Carmelo Anthony debacle. Now that Jackson is gone, sources say, Anthony will likely not be bought out or traded and will instead stay in New York, as is his preference.
Jacksons sudden dismissal creates a number of questions for the future of the Knicks organization. The most immediate uncertainty has to do with who will be directing the front office as it enters this off-seasons free agency period. Incumbent general manager Steve Mills served as President of Basketball Operations prior to Jacksons 2014 hire, and it had been reported by several outlets that he still served as the primary point of contact for outside organizations during the Jackson regime. Sources tell Hoops Inq. that early candidates for the presidency will be former Knicks guard and current ABC commentator Mark Jackson and former Detroit Pistons president Joe Dumars.
Given Jacksons promotion of the triangle offense within the organization, his departure from the Knicks could have drastic implications for the teams on-court product. Head coach Jeff Hornacek, who Jackson hired last summer and who sources indicate may also be on his way out, initially distanced himself from the post-centric offense. By the seasons end, however, he had begun to voice a desire to commit the team entirely to the triangle. Though it has been reported that the offense was the focus of all the Knicks pre-draft workouts, it stands to reason that Jacksons dismissal could spell the end of the triangle in New York, especially given its reported unpopularity with incumbent players and free agents.
How the organization navigates these dilemmas is a question that will have to be answered by whoever is next to hold the teams presidency. Where the Knicks go next is up in the air; for now, all thats for certain is that Phil Jackson wont be leading them there.
HoopsInquirer - ( New Window )
1. Restore instant credibility to the franchise
2. Ala Pat Riley throw his rings on the table and convince stars to come here.
Well We some how now have even less credibility than before he came, and no star free agent will even take a meeting with us let alone come here. So I'd say Phil has been complete and utter mission failure. The quicker we move on the better. Give Houston a shot or bring a young hungry GM in here who is interested in building a franchise not take a up a hobby to make a ton of $ as a retirement position.
DOES DOLAN REALIZE KEEPING MELO HERE IS A BAD FUCKING IDEA?
Sorry for the caps, but the stupidity of this timing is a bit much to take.
Bad news (so far): Melo stays, Dolan didn't like the draft pick (though he had a concert that night) and Dumars is in the mix presumably because of Isiah.
1. Restore instant credibility to the franchise
2. Ala Pat Riley throw his rings on the table and convince stars to come here.
Well We some how now have even less credibility than before he came, and no star free agent will even take a meeting with us let alone come here. So I'd say Phil has been complete and utter mission failure. The quicker we move on the better. Give Houston a shot or bring a young hungry GM in here who is interested in building a franchise not take a up a hobby to make a ton of $ as a retirement position.
That having been said its very disturbing that he was allowed to make such a huge pick. I'm all for giving Frank a chance, but another GM may have wanted to go with another player, or worse, the remaining crew wanted someone else. This organization may set a record for clusterfuckness...
Bingo.
DOES DOLAN REALIZE KEEPING MELO HERE IS A BAD FUCKING IDEA?
Sorry for the caps, but the stupidity of this timing is a bit much to take.
DOESN'T HE REALIZE THAT KEEPING MELO IS A VERY, VERY BAD FUCKING IDEA?
Sorry for the caps, but the timing of the stupidity is difficult to believe. I guess KP and Melo won. And by "won", I mean Dolan is "hands on" again. Hooray ! (Or not.)
Bad news (so far): Melo stays, Dolan didn't like the draft pick (though he had a concert that night) and Dumars is in the mix presumably because of Isiah.
However, feuding publicly with Melo and KP was just stupid.
But what happens now? Free agency starts on July 1st. The trade market is open. Thus, the Knicks will be in limbo through this process. Why wasn't this decision made a month ago, before the draft.
Jackson is gone, but the real problem with this franchise, Dolan remains.
Id love to bring in a young exec or a guy like hinkie. No more former great players or coaches or whatever. Dont give the keys to mills/houston, that scenario worries me. I just dont feel confident in Houston for some reason.
Unless the NBA steps in, I am 61 and I doubt I will ever see a truly meaningful playoff series played by the NY Knicks again.
Isn't that what we said after IT?
Fixed
The other part of me is ecstatic he's gone, the triangle is gone, and hopefully the all too frequent media appearances of throwing the players under the bus is gone.
This is not a bad job for a prospective GM. Dolan did not interfere with Phil and he paid him a shit ton. You have KP, Willy, Frank, and your picks. I really hope that Dolan finds a talented and smart candidate, and not just a loyal guy.