Adrian Wojnarowski& #8207;Verified account @WojVerticalNBA
Owner James Dolan is weighing the future of Phil Jackson as New York Knicks President, league sources tell @TheVertical. Story online soon.
I mean, he seems competent enough, which would be a big step up for the Knicks, but it's not as if the guy is a magician or anything. Nuggets and Raptors....BFD.
I mean, he seems competent enough, which would be a big step up for the Knicks, but it's not as if the guy is a magician or anything. Nuggets and Raptors....BFD.
the precailing thought is dolan is basically afraid of him
unlike Phil has shown ability as a GM. I wonder if Ujiri would come here without a promise of full or near full autonomy. His Toronto situation is much much better than ours.
just signed an extension last fall. No idea what the terms were. My assumption is that getting this guy out of his contract, and from a team in our division, is going to be costly. This is sort of funny as Dolan obviously knows him from the Melo trade. My guess is whatever "shortlist" Dolan has in his head of potential GM hires is probably very limited, simply because he doesn't know many from around the league. He's going to gravitate to guys like Phil or Isiah instead of interviewing assistants from successful front offices around the league.
I mean, he seems competent enough, which would be a big step up for the Knicks, but it's not as if the guy is a magician or anything. Nuggets and Raptors....BFD.
he's definitely overrated, but he'd be a step up in quality for us.
Please hire somebody that is intelligent, has a viable long term plan, has a working knowledge/respect for quantitative analysis and isn't necessarily a former player/coach (skills that aren't necessarily translatable to working in an NBA front office).
Can we all just stop with the bitching about the Ntilikina pick?
Triangle or not, he was arguably the best player on the board. There was a lot of talk before the draft that Dallas was looking to jump in front of us to grab him, if Minnesota doesn't ship their pick to Chicago it's very possible that happens. Secondly, if we had taken Smith as many are crying over then Dallas probably grabs Frank at 9 so it's not like taking him at 8 was some huge reach. He went right in the range that he was expected to go. He has size, projects as a plus defender, is an efficient scorer and has been a high percentage shooter from 3. We have a 19 year old kid with a ton of potential regardless of what the offensive system is.
is flat out scared of Ujiri. I've mentioned this before but Dolan blocked the Lowry deal mostly because he had been so "impressed" by whatever Ujiri pulled in the Melo negotiations.
better than he found it. When Phil got hired, the team's 2 best players under the age of 25 were Iman Shumpert and Tim Hardaway Jr. Plus, they had no draft picks.
Outside of his pillaging of the Knicks, what has Ujiri done since he left Denver? All of the best players (and the coach) on Toronto were already there when he got the job. Most of his draft picks have sucked.
of the last time a team poached an executive, and the compensation that it required?
The Orlando Magic will send the Toronto Raptors a 2018 second-round draft pick as compensation for hiring new president of basketball operations Jeff Weltman, league sources told The Vertical.
I think the correct move is paying off Phil to hit the road and dealing with Carmelo for a bit longer in order to trade at the deadline for whatever you can get. Paying Phil $24 million to leave makes much more sense than paying over double that to get rid of Anthony and get nothing else in return.
But Phil needs to go. His ego is too big and the current well of young talent shouldn't be poisoned.
of the last time a team poached an executive, and the compensation that it required?
The Orlando Magic will send the Toronto Raptors a 2018 second-round draft pick as compensation for hiring new president of basketball operations Jeff Weltman, league sources told The Vertical.
to becoming a good to very good team in 3-4 years, mainly because we have a major piece in place and still have our first round draft picks. Moreover, it wouldn't take a GM who's a mastermind to execute the plan; merely one who's patient and half-way competent.
The issue, as it's always been, is Dolan and whether he'll be hands off and willing to wait.
is flat out scared of Ujiri. I've mentioned this before but Dolan blocked the Lowry deal mostly because he had been so "impressed" by whatever Ujiri pulled in the Melo negotiations.
Ujiri pulled it on Dolan. Walsh had parameters to make the trade, Dolan came in,blew them up & basically told Ujiri we'll give you whatever you want for Melo!
but let's not pretend like this is some great day.
I think in order, Phil's biggest mistakes were:
1) Organizational triangle mandate
2) Melo NTC
3) Noah contract
4) (If true) His willingness to bring Rose back.
All that said, Carmelo Anthony did no favors for Phil or this organization. Aside from the fact that many wanted Melo back, I think Phil tried to mentally challenge Melo into becoming a leader of the team.
Instead of building trust with one another, their relationship evaporated, throw in the NTC and at that point the flood gates opened up. The truth about Melo is that he never bought in and never seemed to value leadership or prioritize winning.
The Rose deal was a very reasonable, very low risk/high reward move. I actually thought that was a decent gamble that didnt work out. Any interest level in him at this point is totally nuts. If it's true Phil was open to that...there's another mistake.
As far as KP? I can't be a hypocrite. I screamed when they took him. I thought he was just another skinny Euro and I was devastated (kind of still am) that they missed out on KAT because they played to win games down the stretch of that season. However, it is a credit to Phil that the KP pick was a home run. I think all the noise surrounding him last week was mostly overreaction. I would listen to every offer with the amount of future assets some teams have and the current "meaningless" state of trying to win anything in the NBA short term.
All in all, there is some sense of relief, but also what do we do now? More than that I think the prevailing thought is, so we still have to watch Carmelo Anthony?
of the last time a team poached an executive, and the compensation that it required?
The Orlando Magic will send the Toronto Raptors a 2018 second-round draft pick as compensation for hiring new president of basketball operations Jeff Weltman, league sources told The Vertical.
That's really not all that bad.
Do we have any 2nd round picks in the immediate future or do the Sixers have them all?
is flat out scared of Ujiri. I've mentioned this before but Dolan blocked the Lowry deal mostly because he had been so "impressed" by whatever Ujiri pulled in the Melo negotiations.
Ujiri pulled it on Dolan. Walsh had parameters to make the trade, Dolan came in,blew them up & basically told Ujiri we'll give you whatever you want for Melo!
I think that is something people want to believe because they hate Dolan so much. If the deal were agreed to then that's that. Not even Dolan is that dumb. Ujiri was holding out for more and threatening to sent Melo to the Nets. Dolan did get involved at this point but there was no "deal". Dolan got spooked.
come to work for Dolan? Its pretty much a career ender.
So maybe someone looking for a big final paycheck but otherwise?
The Knick organization is a joke. Being fair, is it really realistic for anyone with vision to think that they can fix this mess with the glare of the media and an irrational and paranoid owner?
is flat out scared of Ujiri. I've mentioned this before but Dolan blocked the Lowry deal mostly because he had been so "impressed" by whatever Ujiri pulled in the Melo negotiations.
Ujiri pulled it on Dolan. Walsh had parameters to make the trade, Dolan came in,blew them up & basically told Ujiri we'll give you whatever you want for Melo!
I think that is something people want to believe because they hate Dolan so much. If the deal were agreed to then that's that. Not even Dolan is that dumb. Ujiri was holding out for more and threatening to sent Melo to the Nets. Dolan did get involved at this point but there was no "deal". Dolan got spooked.
It's not about believing something, it's about what happened. Walsh was negotiating the deal, then he got "dismissed" & Dolan took over. You're right about the Nets being part of the equation but Melo (who allegedly only wanted to play for the Knicks) forced the Knicks hand to give up the farm to get him (& you're right,Ujiri parlayed that into a tremendous return on an asset they wanted to move),thus valuing $$$ more than playing for a winning team!
it or not I don't think the Knicks job is "that bad". You have a potential superstar signed for multiple seasons, you have Willy who at worst looks like a solid young big, I didn't want Frank but he should be a solid NBA player and you have a fan base who seems ready to see youth and rebuilding and not the same old garbage. Ujiri (or someone of his ilk) would likely want iron clad job security and assurances they could "rebuild" and not Derrick Rose their way to being good quickly. Lee has some value, Melo could still have some value. If 2018 ends up with KP and Willy having forward development, Frank shows flashes, the Knicks win 28 games and pick 6th and get another young player I think the arrow would be pointing firmly up. If we go chasing Derrick Rose etc then fuck this team forever.
It is survived by Kurt Rambis. In lieu of flowers, please send donations of unexpired talent to the Knicks Fans Relief Fund, 1 Penn Plaza NYC c/o some lackies.
it or not I don't think the Knicks job is "that bad". You have a potential superstar signed for multiple seasons, you have Willy who at worst looks like a solid young big, I didn't want Frank but he should be a solid NBA player and you have a fan base who seems ready to see youth and rebuilding and not the same old garbage. Ujiri (or someone of his ilk) would likely want iron clad job security and assurances they could "rebuild" and not Derrick Rose their way to being good quickly. Lee has some value, Melo could still have some value. If 2018 ends up with KP and Willy having forward development, Frank shows flashes, the Knicks win 28 games and pick 6th and get another young player I think the arrow would be pointing firmly up. If we go chasing Derrick Rose etc then fuck this team forever.
I agree. Dolan stayed out of Phil's hair, and plainly is more interested in his band and attending games than running things. The NYR job has been a good one for a while.
all I meant was there is a perception the deal was done and then Dolan ran into the room and threw in Mozgov etc. Ujiri was playing hardball and Dolan freaked out scared the Nets would land Melo. Remember at the time the Nets move to Brooklyn was set and people were acting like this would soon be a "Nets town". I'm not defending Dolan even 1%, he's a trash human being. I just meant Dolan presumably negotiates with people all the time and yet the Ujiri negotiations for whatever the reason really stuck with him.
all I meant was there is a perception the deal was done and then Dolan ran into the room and threw in Mozgov etc. Ujiri was playing hardball and Dolan freaked out scared the Nets would land Melo. Remember at the time the Nets move to Brooklyn was set and people were acting like this would soon be a "Nets town". I'm not defending Dolan even 1%, he's a trash human being. I just meant Dolan presumably negotiates with people all the time and yet the Ujiri negotiations for whatever the reason really stuck with him.
Dan, don't disagree w/that. I think Dolan realized he was played for a fool after the fact & that has stuck w/him. I remember reading an article, maybe a year later, where Dolan talked about the fact he has to stay out of negotiations, w/o ever specifically saying the Melo deal was the impetus!
Marc SteinVerified account @ESPNSteinLine
In Knicks news: League sources say former Raptors exec Tim Leiweke is poised to help them as an advisor in wake of Phil Jackson's exit.
he's also a business partner of Dolan buddy Irving Azoff.
will still have been made if the draft was tonight? These lotto picks are too important to just throw away. Hopefully this wasn't a triangle pick. Also, need a new coach now.
will still have been made if the draft was tonight? These lotto picks are too important to just throw away. Hopefully this wasn't a triangle pick. Also, need a new coach now.
I certainly hope so. Frank's value wasn't tied to the triangle. Yes, he would have fit, but shooting and defense fit in any system.
the precailing thought is dolan is basically afraid of him
Wow, this is possibly the post of the year.
he's definitely overrated, but he'd be a step up in quality for us.
Outside of his pillaging of the Knicks, what has Ujiri done since he left Denver? All of the best players (and the coach) on Toronto were already there when he got the job. Most of his draft picks have sucked.
The Orlando Magic will send the Toronto Raptors a 2018 second-round draft pick as compensation for hiring new president of basketball operations Jeff Weltman, league sources told The Vertical.
Usually yes. Looks like the going rate is a 2nd round pick
But Phil needs to go. His ego is too big and the current well of young talent shouldn't be poisoned.
Quote:
of the last time a team poached an executive, and the compensation that it required?
The Orlando Magic will send the Toronto Raptors a 2018 second-round draft pick as compensation for hiring new president of basketball operations Jeff Weltman, league sources told The Vertical.
That's really not all that bad.
President, Bobby Webster is the GM
The issue, as it's always been, is Dolan and whether he'll be hands off and willing to wait.
Ujiri pulled it on Dolan. Walsh had parameters to make the trade, Dolan came in,blew them up & basically told Ujiri we'll give you whatever you want for Melo!
I think in order, Phil's biggest mistakes were:
1) Organizational triangle mandate
2) Melo NTC
3) Noah contract
4) (If true) His willingness to bring Rose back.
All that said, Carmelo Anthony did no favors for Phil or this organization. Aside from the fact that many wanted Melo back, I think Phil tried to mentally challenge Melo into becoming a leader of the team.
Instead of building trust with one another, their relationship evaporated, throw in the NTC and at that point the flood gates opened up. The truth about Melo is that he never bought in and never seemed to value leadership or prioritize winning.
The Rose deal was a very reasonable, very low risk/high reward move. I actually thought that was a decent gamble that didnt work out. Any interest level in him at this point is totally nuts. If it's true Phil was open to that...there's another mistake.
As far as KP? I can't be a hypocrite. I screamed when they took him. I thought he was just another skinny Euro and I was devastated (kind of still am) that they missed out on KAT because they played to win games down the stretch of that season. However, it is a credit to Phil that the KP pick was a home run. I think all the noise surrounding him last week was mostly overreaction. I would listen to every offer with the amount of future assets some teams have and the current "meaningless" state of trying to win anything in the NBA short term.
All in all, there is some sense of relief, but also what do we do now? More than that I think the prevailing thought is, so we still have to watch Carmelo Anthony?
Get ready to pick 8, 9 or 10 again.
The pentagon
Quote:
In comment 13513344 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
of the last time a team poached an executive, and the compensation that it required?
The Orlando Magic will send the Toronto Raptors a 2018 second-round draft pick as compensation for hiring new president of basketball operations Jeff Weltman, league sources told The Vertical.
That's really not all that bad.
Do we have any 2nd round picks in the immediate future or do the Sixers have them all?
Quote:
is flat out scared of Ujiri. I've mentioned this before but Dolan blocked the Lowry deal mostly because he had been so "impressed" by whatever Ujiri pulled in the Melo negotiations.
Ujiri pulled it on Dolan. Walsh had parameters to make the trade, Dolan came in,blew them up & basically told Ujiri we'll give you whatever you want for Melo!
I think that is something people want to believe because they hate Dolan so much. If the deal were agreed to then that's that. Not even Dolan is that dumb. Ujiri was holding out for more and threatening to sent Melo to the Nets. Dolan did get involved at this point but there was no "deal". Dolan got spooked.
So maybe someone looking for a big final paycheck but otherwise?
The Knick organization is a joke. Being fair, is it really realistic for anyone with vision to think that they can fix this mess with the glare of the media and an irrational and paranoid owner?
This. He's also set to make 3x the money if he bails.
This organization is just a complete dumpster fire. It's embarrassing that they really haven't been relevant in almost two decades.
Quote:
In comment 13513343 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
is flat out scared of Ujiri. I've mentioned this before but Dolan blocked the Lowry deal mostly because he had been so "impressed" by whatever Ujiri pulled in the Melo negotiations.
Ujiri pulled it on Dolan. Walsh had parameters to make the trade, Dolan came in,blew them up & basically told Ujiri we'll give you whatever you want for Melo!
I think that is something people want to believe because they hate Dolan so much. If the deal were agreed to then that's that. Not even Dolan is that dumb. Ujiri was holding out for more and threatening to sent Melo to the Nets. Dolan did get involved at this point but there was no "deal". Dolan got spooked.
It's not about believing something, it's about what happened. Walsh was negotiating the deal, then he got "dismissed" & Dolan took over. You're right about the Nets being part of the equation but Melo (who allegedly only wanted to play for the Knicks) forced the Knicks hand to give up the farm to get him (& you're right,Ujiri parlayed that into a tremendous return on an asset they wanted to move),thus valuing $$$ more than playing for a winning team!
I agree. Dolan stayed out of Phil's hair, and plainly is more interested in his band and attending games than running things. The NYR job has been a good one for a while.
@SBondyNYDN
Following
More
Tim Leiweke, who hired Masai Ujiri in Toronto, is advising the Knicks on their direction.
Dan, don't disagree w/that. I think Dolan realized he was played for a fool after the fact & that has stuck w/him. I remember reading an article, maybe a year later, where Dolan talked about the fact he has to stay out of negotiations, w/o ever specifically saying the Melo deal was the impetus!
In Knicks news: League sources say former Raptors exec Tim Leiweke is poised to help them as an advisor in wake of Phil Jackson's exit.
he's also a business partner of Dolan buddy Irving Azoff.
I certainly hope so. Frank's value wasn't tied to the triangle. Yes, he would have fit, but shooting and defense fit in any system.