First, happy 4th of July to everyone.
I was going over our TE depth, considering who we keep and who we cut.
TE Ellison, Engram, Adams (upside) and Tye (he has talent, got better as the year went) all have abilities with Ellison being the chief blocker.
I don't see LaCosse making the team and I'm pretty sure he is still eligible for the PS.
So do we carry four TE's if we carry three QB's? I'm thinkng of the numbers game here and special teams play.
Will Tye is just "nifty" and knows the offense, plus he's still cheap. It is a long season so having talent around always helps. I just don't remember how Tye, Adams are as special teamers?
And I very much doubt LaCosse can beat out Tye whose proved to be a receiver at least. But hey, ya never know how much a guy improves. Camp competition should be thick.
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I wonder whether Smith or Huesman could knock both off and give us a real FB for the first time in a while.
Rhett Ellison can play fullback as I understand it so I see Smith as a practice squad, developmental type possibly.
And I very much doubt LaCosse can beat out Tye whose proved to be a receiver at least. But hey, ya never know how much a guy improves. Camp competition should be thick.
But having Ellison at FB takes him off the line. I'd rather have Ellison in line if possible. Jumbo with a true FB, Ellison, Adams, and Engram gives us more pass threat than Herz coming in to play in line.
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has he ever played FB? 216lb FB really?
I said the same thing which is why I didn't even bother typing out his name. He is totally developmental but even if he added 10 pounds of muscle by next year he'd still be too small, IMHO. Smith, on the other hand, may have potential if he can not only block for the run but pass protect and catch. The broader a full back's skills, the better his chances of sticking in this pass happy league.
216 was coming out of college as a QB. He's already added a ton of weight.
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In comment 13519231 adamg said:
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I wonder whether Smith or Huesman could knock both off and give us a real FB for the first time in a while.
Rhett Ellison can play fullback as I understand it so I see Smith as a practice squad, developmental type possibly.
And I very much doubt LaCosse can beat out Tye whose proved to be a receiver at least. But hey, ya never know how much a guy improves. Camp competition should be thick.
But having Ellison at FB takes him off the line. I'd rather have Ellison in line if possible. Jumbo with a true FB, Ellison, Adams, and Engram gives us more pass threat than Herz coming in to play in line.
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They will battle for sure but I can't see LaCosse beating out the experienced Tye? In spots, Will is fairly nifty. He just can't block despite his 260 pounds. If Tye' improved his blocking and shows well in camp LaCosse likely doesn't have a chance.
Tend to agree. LaCosse was also cut by the Jets IIRS. Tye is limited, but a proven player, a solid move the chains TE, who has already excelled on ST. But it should be an interesting camp battle.
My guess is the same as almost everyone else: Engram, Ellison, Adams, Tye.
TEs: Evan Engram, Jerell Adams, Rhett Ellison
has the makings of an NFL TE. Adams has not. If you want to talk potential, that TE on the team is Engram. If we're looking fir a TE who can catch and block, it might be La Cosse if healthy. It sure isn't Tye and might not be Adams either. Still, I think we keep 4
TEs: Evan Engram, Jerell Adams, Rhett Ellison
Otherwise, there is no way the Giants just cut a talent like Tye? There is no proven FB worthy of his spot on the current roster?? I'm anxious to see how LB/ST Herzlich does as a spot-time inline blocker. If he is the real goods, and he may very well be, it really helps UNLESS Jay Adams has really improved his blocking.
We are definitely going to carry four TE's I think due to their talent and different skillsets. Right now, Ellison is the only true proven blocker. Engram is the guy with the most receiving upside, by far. Tye is in year 3 after coming out of Stony Brook. He was raw as a rookie but still surprised, just not as a blocker. And last year we saw Will isn't much of a blocker. So lets see how he does in camp.
J Huesman pro day stats - ( New Window )
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Open with 3 TEs, the same number they opened with last year. Additional spots should be used for third QB and a FB. These players will add more value than the fourth TE.
TEs: Evan Engram, Jerell Adams, Rhett Ellison
Is it possible the Giants could trade W. Tye mid-way into camp to a team that maybe lacks a starting capable TE? Sure, but there aren't many trades in the NFL.
Otherwise, there is no way the Giants just cut a talent like Tye? There is no proven FB worthy of his spot on the current roster?? I'm anxious to see how LB/ST Herzlich does as a spot-time inline blocker. If he is the real goods, and he may very well be, it really helps UNLESS Jay Adams has really improved his blocking.
We are definitely going to carry four TE's I think due to their talent and different skillsets. Right now, Ellison is the only true proven blocker. Engram is the guy with the most receiving upside, by far. Tye is in year 3 after coming out of Stony Brook. He was raw as a rookie but still surprised, just not as a blocker. And last year we saw Will isn't much of a blocker. So lets see how he does in camp.
What is this talent of Tye that you speak of? Poor blocking, slow, lumbering. The only reason Tye was the starter was because Leaping Larry was a dipshit and Adams was too green. No one is going to trade for a player who will be cut. No one is going to sign this guy to their 53-man roster. And there is no reason to reserve a roster spot for Tye. He'll head to the Stony Brook Ready Reserve and await his call if injuries necessitate his activation.
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At his pro day a year ago.
Even 226 is light. Assuming he's added some weight since last year's pro-day, how much can it be? 235? I guess we'll have to wait 25 or so days when the first reports start filtering in and maybe someone notes how he looks. Not sure if they publish weights that quickly or update them publicly that quickly? Plus, he is learning a whole new position isn't he? Big Transition?
Considering what WR Pryor did within a year, I wouldn't rule him out. He transitioned to RB over the past year so I assume he'd have more offensive versatility than Smith if not the same blocking potential.
If only he could run in shorts and t-shirt in the game. It is a struggle for him to get any separation and down field.
4.57 or 4.62 isn't setting records. He plays with average speed imo.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=113205&draftyear=2015&genpos=TE
https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/will-tye/
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4.5 is not slow
4.57 or 4.62 isn't setting records. He plays with average speed imo.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=113205&draftyear=2015&genpos=TE
https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/will-tye/
Usually the 4th TE or 6th WR boils down to upside and special teams play. Can a WR like say D. Powe really flash and just beat out Tye based on potential? Sure...just not seeing it right now.
Of course you do, when it's marginal talent at best. You know what else you do? You sign a free agent TE who's a much better blocker, inline or in the backfield. You draft a "21st Century TE" with good size, blazing speed, ten-inch hands, who's already a polished route-runner. You also keep the kid you drafted last year who has, as Sy '56 said about him prior to last year's draft, "more upside than any TE in the class."
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Open with 3 TEs, the same number they opened with last year. Additional spots should be used for third QB and a FB. These players will add more value than the fourth TE.
TEs: Evan Engram, Jerell Adams, Rhett Ellison
Is it possible the Giants could trade W. Tye mid-way into camp to a team that maybe lacks a starting capable TE? Sure, but there aren't many trades in the NFL.
Otherwise, there is no way the Giants just cut a talent like Tye? There is no proven FB worthy of his spot on the current roster?? I'm anxious to see how LB/ST Herzlich does as a spot-time inline blocker. If he is the real goods, and he may very well be, it really helps UNLESS Jay Adams has really improved his blocking.
We are definitely going to carry four TE's I think due to their talent and different skillsets. Right now, Ellison is the only true proven blocker. Engram is the guy with the most receiving upside, by far. Tye is in year 3 after coming out of Stony Brook. He was raw as a rookie but still surprised, just not as a blocker. And last year we saw Will isn't much of a blocker. So lets see how he does in camp.
The last time we were in the top half of the league in rushing yards per attempt we had FB Hynoski playing 41% of offensive snaps. In 2016 six of the eight teams with the highest Offensive Snap Percentages for fullbacks were in the top ten teams for rushing touchdowns. Shane Smith is an athletic beast. He was the lead blocker for Tyler Ervin in 2015 when Ervin ran for 1600 yards. Shane also has experience playing special teams.
How much would Tye actually play with Engram, Adams and Ellison on the roster? I see Engram as the number 1. Adams was graded by PFF as a better blocker than Tye. Ellison has been regarded by Reese as one of the best blocking tight ends in the league. Ellison is also said to have soft hands. In 78 career targets he had just 3 drops. Ellison averaged 8.5 yards after catch for his career.
Tye is a good player. I just believe with our recent onslaught of acquiring tight ends he will fall to the number 4 tight end and not get that many snaps.
We need 3 QBs because you don't want to have to throw Webb into the fire if something should happen to Eli. I believe we would get more value in a FB than carrying a fourth TE who could have very limited playing time.
Best guess is Engram, Ellison, (Signed through '21.) Adams, and either LaCosse or Tye. Both LaCosse and Tye get praised by the coaches, but I haven't seen enough of LaCosse to know if that's anymore than encouragement. I happen to think Will Tye is a very limited athlete who is stiff, has poor change of direction ability and not great hands. He'll eventually get cut, but whether it's this time or the next depends upon how camp unfolds.
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In comment 13519269 gogiants said:
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The last time we were in the top half of the league in rushing yards per attempt we had FB Hynoski playing 41% of offensive snaps. In 2016 six of the eight teams with the highest Offensive Snap Percentages for fullbacks were in the top ten teams for rushing touchdowns. Shane Smith is an athletic beast. He was the lead blocker for Tyler Ervin in 2015 when Ervin ran for 1600 yards. Shane also has experience playing special teams.
How much would Tye actually play with Engram, Adams and Ellison on the roster? I see Engram as the number 1. Adams was graded by PFF as a better blocker than Tye. Ellison has been regarded by Reese as one of the best blocking tight ends in the league. Ellison is also said to have soft hands. In 78 career targets he had just 3 drops. Ellison averaged 8.5 yards after catch for his career.
Tye is a good player. I just believe with our recent onslaught of acquiring tight ends he will fall to the number 4 tight end and not get that many snaps.
We need 3 QBs because you don't want to have to throw Webb into the fire if something should happen to Eli. I believe we would get more value in a FB than carrying a fourth TE who could have very limited playing time.
You can have Geno Smith or Johnson play "safe" football should Eli miss time for the first time in his career, carrying the team just enough to eek out close wins. I'm not sure Webb can do that.
The fact that he comes from a spread offense and from what I read he has little experience calling plays from a huddle or taking snaps from center. If he could be the potential QB of the future I think you want to build him into that. Look at Geno Smith thrown in his first year.
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You just don't cut talent.
Of course you do, when it's marginal talent at best. You know what else you do? You sign a free agent TE who's a much better blocker, inline or in the backfield. You draft a "21st Century TE" with good size, blazing speed, ten-inch hands, who's already a polished route-runner. You also keep the kid you drafted last year who has, as Sy '56 said about him prior to last year's draft, "more upside than any TE in the class."
But I doubt anyone would give us a 7th round pick for him, not with all the cuts that will happen at the end of camp.
If you put a gun to my head though, I say we end up keeping four TE's....
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I think Webb will be given a chance and it is up to him with his work ethic and performance. Let me say this ... why can't he beat out Johnson and Smith? These aren't top backups. Hell, we went with just Jared Lorenzen as a backup once and he was a young player (if I remember that correctly). Yes, that was under Coughlin and McAdoo wasn't even here. However, I don't think it should be automatically dismissed. It should be a good preseason to see these guys compete. I just wonder if there are enough snaps for 4 QBs to get a good enough evaluation on the 3 not named Eli.
Well, camp will be quite telling, of course, but my understanding from the writeups is that Webb is "raw" and doesn't come from a pro-style offense in college. Also, he needs technique work. He has the arm, the work ethic and so forth but may need a year to watch and learn plus another off-season working with a QB coach amongst other things. You can't risk the season with a rookie backup QB?? That is how I come out.
You can have Geno Smith or Johnson play "safe" football should Eli miss time for the first time in his career, carrying the team just enough to eek out close wins. I'm not sure Webb can do that.
Your mentality is what happened in the past. My outlook is the future. All I said is don't rule it out. What is wrong with that? Also, not every player is mentally weak and needs to be coddled. All I said is that he could beat out the other players. If he does then I don't want Johnson or Smith just to not fuck things up. If that is the case then make the game plan specific for Webb to not fuck it up (assuming he beats out the other two). Obviously, if he doesn't and looks like a guy that cannot call a play, run an NFL offense, etc. then you have to go with one of Johnson or Smith. You are making it sound like things are already predetermined. I am just saying lets wait and see what happens. If you go by the camp reports then Webb has exceeded expectations so far. That holds way more weight to me than scouting reports of him before the draft.
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I think Webb will be given a chance and it is up to him with his work ethic and performance. Let me say this ... why can't he beat out Johnson and Smith? These aren't top backups. Hell, we went with just Jared Lorenzen as a backup once and he was a young player (if I remember that correctly). Yes, that was under Coughlin and McAdoo wasn't even here. However, I don't think it should be automatically dismissed. It should be a good preseason to see these guys compete. I just wonder if there are enough snaps for 4 QBs to get a good enough evaluation on the 3 not named Eli.
The fact that he comes from a spread offense and from what I read he has little experience calling plays from a huddle or taking snaps from center. If he could be the potential QB of the future I think you want to build him into that. Look at Geno Smith thrown in his first year.
Read my previous post. He has worked on his calls and snaps prior to the draft and impressed with that so far. Have you read any OTA reports? He was doing well. Not perfect but very well. Also, what does Geno Smith starting as a rookie on the Jets who are completely inept have to do with being a backup QB?
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In comment 13519322 robbieballs2003 said:
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I think Webb will be given a chance and it is up to him with his work ethic and performance. Let me say this ... why can't he beat out Johnson and Smith? These aren't top backups. Hell, we went with just Jared Lorenzen as a backup once and he was a young player (if I remember that correctly). Yes, that was under Coughlin and McAdoo wasn't even here. However, I don't think it should be automatically dismissed. It should be a good preseason to see these guys compete. I just wonder if there are enough snaps for 4 QBs to get a good enough evaluation on the 3 not named Eli.
Well, camp will be quite telling, of course, but my understanding from the writeups is that Webb is "raw" and doesn't come from a pro-style offense in college. Also, he needs technique work. He has the arm, the work ethic and so forth but may need a year to watch and learn plus another off-season working with a QB coach amongst other things. You can't risk the season with a rookie backup QB?? That is how I come out.
You can have Geno Smith or Johnson play "safe" football should Eli miss time for the first time in his career, carrying the team just enough to eek out close wins. I'm not sure Webb can do that.
Your mentality is what happened in the past. My outlook is the future. All I said is don't rule it out. What is wrong with that? Also, not every player is mentally weak and needs to be coddled. All I said is that he could beat out the other players. If he does then I don't want Johnson or Smith just to not fuck things up. If that is the case then make the game plan specific for Webb to not fuck it up (assuming he beats out the other two). Obviously, if he doesn't and looks like a guy that cannot call a play, run an NFL offense, etc. then you have to go with one of Johnson or Smith. You are making it sound like things are already predetermined. I am just saying lets wait and see what happens. If you go by the camp reports then Webb has exceeded expectations so far. That holds way more weight to me than scouting reports of him before the draft.
It would be awesome if he did win that back up QB not just because we get to keep another positional player but more because it gives us confidence that we finally hit on a QB in the draft that can give us a smooth transition if we decide to move on from Eli over the next 4 years.
It would be awesome if he did win that back up QB not just because we get to keep another positional player but more because it gives us confidence that we finally hit on a QB in the draft that can give us a smooth transition if we decide to move on from Eli over the next 4 years.
If we go two QB's it is better, of course, as we get to keep that extra FB or TE or Safety or DL. We have talent this year and our cuts are going to get picked up by other teams.
He played in a system where he never played under center. That was part of the camp reports: him needing reps under center. I hope he can win the backup spot this year, but it's still a long shot.
2. A big knock on Tye this offseason was his coachability
Gibridge - TEs coach - said that a big impact this offseason was that the increased competition (Ellison, Engram, etc.) would hopefully get Tye to work better. The implications were that he didn't take to the coaching well and that he was the frontrunner among the fourth spot seekers, but that he was beatable given his lack of proper orientation towards the game and 'perfecting his craft'.
He played in a system where he never played under center. That was part of the camp reports: him needing reps under center. I hope he can win the backup spot this year, but it's still a long shot.
2. A big knock on Tye this offseason was his coachability
Gibridge - TEs coach - said that a big impact this offseason was that the increased competition (Ellison, Engram, etc.) would hopefully get Tye to work better. The implications were that he didn't take to the coaching well and that he was the frontrunner among the fourth spot seekers, but that he was beatable given his lack of proper orientation towards the game and 'perfecting his craft'.
As for Webb, I too think he needs all sorts of pro-style offense work before he is ready for the NFL. Can he do it in one off-season? We will see.
A certain number of guys make the team because they're serviceable backups on offense and defense but "starters" on special teams. Mark Herzlich seems to be in that category.
I think if we ever tried putting together a depth chart for the special teams units (KO, KO return; punt, punt return; field goal; field goal defense) we'd find these decisions make a little more sense. Who's better on those six units: Tye or LaCosse or one of the FBs or Tavarres King or a young linebacker or one of the safeties?
I have no idea, really.
But I think specials might account for some guys who aren't popular on BBI making the team. Besides Herzlich, maybe Behre, even Bromley. We're all looking for the next Victor Cruz. The coaches would love to find that guy, but they also need the next Reyna Thompson or David Tyree.
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Open with 3 TEs, the same number they opened with last year. Additional spots should be used for third QB and a FB. These players will add more value than the fourth TE.
TEs: Evan Engram, Jerell Adams, Rhett Ellison
Is it possible the Giants could trade W. Tye mid-way into camp to a team that maybe lacks a starting capable TE? Sure, but there aren't many trades in the NFL.
Otherwise, there is no way the Giants just cut a talent like Tye? There is no proven FB worthy of his spot on the current roster?? I'm anxious to see how LB/ST Herzlich does as a spot-time inline blocker. If he is the real goods, and he may very well be, it really helps UNLESS Jay Adams has really improved his blocking.
We are definitely going to carry four TE's I think due to their talent and different skillsets. Right now, Ellison is the only true proven blocker. Engram is the guy with the most receiving upside, by far. Tye is in year 3 after coming out of Stony Brook. He was raw as a rookie but still surprised, just not as a blocker. And last year we saw Will isn't much of a blocker. So lets see how he does in camp.
A talent like Tye? He's the dictionary definition of JAG. This is bordering on John Jerry level overvaluation.
And it's Jerell Adams, not Jay.
I'm not sure what the coaches truly think of Adams and Tye. Obviously they weren't thrilled or there would be no Ellison and Engram. I like Adams chances better simply because he has the size and physical tools to be a complete TE, whereas Tye is more limited to the pass-catching variety.
Based on his squatty physical makeup, I would like to see them work Tye as an H-back who lines up or motions into the backfield and makes FB type lead blocks. Naturally, if he does not have the mental makeup to stick his head in there, this will not work. Just trying to maximize his contributions here. Based on what UDFAs out of Stony Brook normally produce, his pro stats so far suggest a much better player than given credit for.
Based on his squatty physical makeup, I would like to see them work Tye as an H-back who lines up or motions into the backfield and makes FB type lead blocks. Naturally, if he does not have the mental makeup to stick his head in there, this will not work. Just trying to maximize his contributions here. Based on what UDFAs out of Stony Brook normally produce, his pro stats so far suggest a much better player than given credit for.
First, you want a guy who is terrible at blocking to make "FB type lead blocks? Second, the only reason Tye has compiled the stats to date is because the position group has been a black-hole of talent led by Leaping Larry. Tye has realized his potential and I applaud him for that, but so many have alluded to his "talent" and being a much better player only demonstrates the lowly acceptance that has been instilled to us fans by the blatant disregard by the front office in addressing the TE position.
Yes, Engram is a TE and one of the 4
No, nobody is going to trade for Tye unless about 50 Tght Ends around the league go on IR this summer...
Based on his squatty physical makeup, I would like to see them work Tye as an H-back who lines up or motions into the backfield and makes FB type lead blocks. Naturally, if he does not have the mental makeup to stick his head in there, this will not work. Just trying to maximize his contributions here. Based on what UDFAs out of Stony Brook normally produce, his pro stats so far suggest a much better player than given credit for.
As this thread has sprouted points galore, I am beginning to truly consider whether LaCosse could in fact beat out Tye due to his superior blocking skills? Camp will be telling as we have some serious competition at TE.
But I am pretty sure Ellison, Engram and Adams are three locks, with Tye & LaCosse or possibly Smith for FB battling it out for a roster slot.
Your second comment has nothing to back it up other than an absolute statement you make which I will take for what it is probably worth - absolutely nothing.
I'm not sure what the coaches truly think of Adams and Tye. Obviously they weren't thrilled or there would be no Ellison and Engram. I like Adams chances better simply because he has the size and physical tools to be a complete TE, whereas Tye is more limited to the pass-catching variety.
So hypothetically, if he is our second best blocker, I mean a good blocker not just a "by default 2nd" and his pass catching is on par with Tye, well its a no brainer.
I don't think Tye is a "JAG" per se but clearly he needs to work at his craft more if he wants to stick around in the NFL.
And I agree, trading Tye seem unlikely unless it is a "player for player" type thing with two teams looking to dump excess, about a 200 to 1 shot. LOL.
The seems like a nice story but we've upgraded the talent level at the position as last season's results demanded. I think we move on.
The seems like a nice story but we've upgraded the talent level at the position as last season's results demanded. I think we move on.
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Tye's best asset as a TE is his receiving ability, which is compromised by his lack of size. He's not a particularly effective blocker. On this team, with the receiving talent we have, you don't keep a 4th TE because he's a serviceable pass catcher.
The seems like a nice story but we've upgraded the talent level at the position as last season's results demanded. I think we move on.
Pat Traina of Inside Football did a roster projection exercise and she likes M. LaCosse over Tye. It appears LaCosse has had a strong off-season and OTA's; has changed his workout regiment to help with injuries; and, he is likely a far better blocker than W. Tye.
Of course, the issue with LaCosse is durability. The guy certainly passes the 'eye test' with prototypical size, speed, athleticism and hands for a two-way TE. Hopefully those changes to his offseason routine will allow him to stay healthy and be in a position to contribute. Still, even with his OTA all-star label, the Giants might be able to stash him on the PS.
I still don't see us keeping 4 TEs if Engram/Ellison/Adams are healthy coming out of camp.
Ellison is here to block. Only injury will keep him off the field.
Adams is a 6th round pick. 6th round picks are not locks. His tenure depends on his showing that he has improved over his rookie season and that he is now a dependable blocker.
I think that the specter of Adrien Robinson hangs over the TE corps-and it should. I think that Robinson showed the Giants that even if you are big, strong and fast, AND a good receiver, if you are also liability on the field, you have no place on the Giants. The key word here is "liability."
Will Tye has shown that so far, he is not a dependable blocker. It is a liability.
LaCosse is a mystery. He is unproven as a TE. He could be good or bad. But even if he is good, his injury history make still makes him a liability.
As of now, I see three TEs making the team. Both Tye and LaCosse are battling it out with each other because they are equals. In addition to winning THAT battle, for either of them to convince McAdoo to go with 4 TEs, the winner ALSO has to show that he is at least as good as Adams.
Could we go with 4 TEs? If, (and it is a big if) if after a month of training camp and pre-season games, our 6th WR is not promising, or if LaCosse stays healthy and actually can block, or if Tye improves dramatically as a blocker (Hey, we expect Flowers to improve as a blocker), then yeah, we could go with 4 TEs. But right now, my opinion is 3 TEs.
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In comment 13519328 SGMen said:
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In comment 13519322 robbieballs2003 said:
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I think Webb will be given a chance and it is up to him with his work ethic and performance. Let me say this ... why can't he beat out Johnson and Smith? These aren't top backups. Hell, we went with just Jared Lorenzen as a backup once and he was a young player (if I remember that correctly). Yes, that was under Coughlin and McAdoo wasn't even here. However, I don't think it should be automatically dismissed. It should be a good preseason to see these guys compete. I just wonder if there are enough snaps for 4 QBs to get a good enough evaluation on the 3 not named Eli.
Well, camp will be quite telling, of course, but my understanding from the writeups is that Webb is "raw" and doesn't come from a pro-style offense in college. Also, he needs technique work. He has the arm, the work ethic and so forth but may need a year to watch and learn plus another off-season working with a QB coach amongst other things. You can't risk the season with a rookie backup QB?? That is how I come out.
You can have Geno Smith or Johnson play "safe" football should Eli miss time for the first time in his career, carrying the team just enough to eek out close wins. I'm not sure Webb can do that.
Your mentality is what happened in the past. My outlook is the future. All I said is don't rule it out. What is wrong with that? Also, not every player is mentally weak and needs to be coddled. All I said is that he could beat out the other players. If he does then I don't want Johnson or Smith just to not fuck things up. If that is the case then make the game plan specific for Webb to not fuck it up (assuming he beats out the other two). Obviously, if he doesn't and looks like a guy that cannot call a play, run an NFL offense, etc. then you have to go with one of Johnson or Smith. You are making it sound like things are already predetermined. I am just saying lets wait and see what happens. If you go by the camp reports then Webb has exceeded expectations so far. That holds way more weight to me than scouting reports of him before the draft.
I see your point and it holds water. Camp will be quite telling.
The other point to consider is the practice squad. I believe that if Johnson or Geno were put on the PS they would not get picked up by someone else. Webb would be snatched up within 2 minutes. So it is possible in my view, that Webb is #2 on the depth chart just so he is on the game roster, and the other "winner" is #3 and put on the PS. If Eli gets hurt Webb would finish that game, but after that Johnson (for example) would be called off the PS and compete to start.
Ellison is here to block. Only injury will keep him off the field.
Adams is a 6th round pick. 6th round picks are not locks. His tenure depends on his showing that he has improved over his rookie season and that he is now a dependable blocker.
I think that the specter of Adrien Robinson hangs over the TE corps-and it should. I think that Robinson showed the Giants that even if you are big, strong and fast, AND a good receiver, if you are also liability on the field, you have no place on the Giants. The key word here is "liability."
Will Tye has shown that so far, he is not a dependable blocker. It is a liability.
LaCosse is a mystery. He is unproven as a TE. He could be good or bad. But even if he is good, his injury history make still makes him a liability.
As of now, I see three TEs making the team. Both Tye and LaCosse are battling it out with each other because they are equals. In addition to winning THAT battle, for either of them to convince McAdoo to go with 4 TEs, the winner ALSO has to show that he is at least as good as Adams.
Could we go with 4 TEs? If, (and it is a big if) if after a month of training camp and pre-season games, our 6th WR is not promising, or if LaCosse stays healthy and actually can block, or if Tye improves dramatically as a blocker (Hey, we expect Flowers to improve as a blocker), then yeah, we could go with 4 TEs. But right now, my opinion is 3 TEs.
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In comment 13519352 robbieballs2003 said:
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In comment 13519328 SGMen said:
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In comment 13519322 robbieballs2003 said:
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I think Webb will be given a chance and it is up to him with his work ethic and performance. Let me say this ... why can't he beat out Johnson and Smith? These aren't top backups. Hell, we went with just Jared Lorenzen as a backup once and he was a young player (if I remember that correctly). Yes, that was under Coughlin and McAdoo wasn't even here. However, I don't think it should be automatically dismissed. It should be a good preseason to see these guys compete. I just wonder if there are enough snaps for 4 QBs to get a good enough evaluation on the 3 not named Eli.
Well, camp will be quite telling, of course, but my understanding from the writeups is that Webb is "raw" and doesn't come from a pro-style offense in college. Also, he needs technique work. He has the arm, the work ethic and so forth but may need a year to watch and learn plus another off-season working with a QB coach amongst other things. You can't risk the season with a rookie backup QB?? That is how I come out.
You can have Geno Smith or Johnson play "safe" football should Eli miss time for the first time in his career, carrying the team just enough to eek out close wins. I'm not sure Webb can do that.
Your mentality is what happened in the past. My outlook is the future. All I said is don't rule it out. What is wrong with that? Also, not every player is mentally weak and needs to be coddled. All I said is that he could beat out the other players. If he does then I don't want Johnson or Smith just to not fuck things up. If that is the case then make the game plan specific for Webb to not fuck it up (assuming he beats out the other two). Obviously, if he doesn't and looks like a guy that cannot call a play, run an NFL offense, etc. then you have to go with one of Johnson or Smith. You are making it sound like things are already predetermined. I am just saying lets wait and see what happens. If you go by the camp reports then Webb has exceeded expectations so far. That holds way more weight to me than scouting reports of him before the draft.
I see your point and it holds water. Camp will be quite telling.
The other point to consider is the practice squad. I believe that if Johnson or Geno were put on the PS they would not get picked up by someone else. Webb would be snatched up within 2 minutes. So it is possible in my view, that Webb is #2 on the depth chart just so he is on the game roster, and the other "winner" is #3 and put on the PS. If Eli gets hurt Webb would finish that game, but after that Johnson (for example) would be called off the PS and compete to start.
I am like 99.999999% sure Johnson and Smith are not eligible for the PS.
LaCosse can play.
Engram - Ellison - LaCosse - Adams: solid group.
Will Tye? Goodbye and good luck. A TE who cant block, cant play FB and isnt much of a threat in the receiving game is not an NFL player.
LaCosse can play.
Engram - Ellison - LaCosse - Adams: solid group.
Will Tye? Goodbye and good luck. A TE who cant block, cant play FB and isnt much of a threat in the receiving game is not an NFL player.
I am a bit worried about Rhett Ellison's calf injury for camp. If LaCosse is the next best blocker on the team, he surely makes it as the fourth TE and we do in fact keep four TE's rather than 3, waiting on Ellison to heal up. But I'm getting ahead of myself as I don't truly know the extent of that calf injury. Could all be precautionary.
If we had 3 blocking TE's, guys that are truly worthy, it would make for a HUGE difference as compared to last year.
I would like to hear word from the coaches about LaCosse. But, we know Tye isn't a blocking specialist. We know he's very limited. LaCosse by all indications isn't the same player: based on his size, past performance, and his performance in practice based on reporters observations. Ellison's potential injury and his injury history don't scare me, but they do caution me, and make a guy like LaCosse seem all the more invaluable for the 53.
And an addendum on this line of thought: Smith or Huesman as a FB make sense as well. Ellison can't be both in-line and in the back field at the same time. Having two TEs plus a FB on the field would help us in the running game. I'm really rooting for one of those FBs to stick to the 53.
I would like to hear word from the coaches about LaCosse. But, we know Tye isn't a blocking specialist. We know he's very limited. LaCosse by all indications isn't the same player: based on his size, past performance, and his performance in practice based on reporters observations. Ellison's potential injury and his injury history don't scare me, but they do caution me, and make a guy like LaCosse seem all the more invaluable for the 53.
And an addendum on this line of thought: Smith or Huesman as a FB make sense as well. Ellison can't be both in-line and in the back field at the same time. Having two TEs plus a FB on the field would help us in the running game. I'm really rooting for one of those FBs to stick to the 53.
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The statement by Gilbride about his lack of effort in listening to coaching really stuck with me since coaches almost never say much of interest let alone something so negative about a player.
I would like to hear word from the coaches about LaCosse. But, we know Tye isn't a blocking specialist. We know he's very limited. LaCosse by all indications isn't the same player: based on his size, past performance, and his performance in practice based on reporters observations. Ellison's potential injury and his injury history don't scare me, but they do caution me, and make a guy like LaCosse seem all the more invaluable for the 53.
And an addendum on this line of thought: Smith or Huesman as a FB make sense as well. Ellison can't be both in-line and in the back field at the same time. Having two TEs plus a FB on the field would help us in the running game. I'm really rooting for one of those FBs to stick to the 53.
I could be wrong but I don't think I recall ever seeing a two TE, one FB alignment? That would leave you with one receiver. I'm likely wrong I just don't ever recall. One TE, One FB - that you see regularly of course.
22 personnel.
Could have Beckham or Marshall out wide with Engram in the h back or slot position.
Inside The Pylon In Depth Look - ( New Window )
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In comment 13520543 adamg said:
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The statement by Gilbride about his lack of effort in listening to coaching really stuck with me since coaches almost never say much of interest let alone something so negative about a player.
I would like to hear word from the coaches about LaCosse. But, we know Tye isn't a blocking specialist. We know he's very limited. LaCosse by all indications isn't the same player: based on his size, past performance, and his performance in practice based on reporters observations. Ellison's potential injury and his injury history don't scare me, but they do caution me, and make a guy like LaCosse seem all the more invaluable for the 53.
And an addendum on this line of thought: Smith or Huesman as a FB make sense as well. Ellison can't be both in-line and in the back field at the same time. Having two TEs plus a FB on the field would help us in the running game. I'm really rooting for one of those FBs to stick to the 53.
I could be wrong but I don't think I recall ever seeing a two TE, one FB alignment? That would leave you with one receiver. I'm likely wrong I just don't ever recall. One TE, One FB - that you see regularly of course.
22 personnel.
Could have Beckham or Marshall out wide with Engram in the h back or slot position. Inside The Pylon In Depth Look - ( New Window )
tye is not anything spectacular but he has shown the ability to catch the football, though blocking is not a strength.
lacosse can block so i like him as more of a complete tightend compared to tye who is basically a low grade receiving tight end.
theres a chance they take 4 but it will depend on how many receivers make it. if there are 5 WR then def could see 4 TE but for now i see 3 with tye and lacosse tring to make the 3rd spot.
Why? Engram can line up everywhere
Why? Engram can line up everywhere
My bet is he lands on the practice squad.