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4th. best NYG Defensive player...all time.

grizz299 : 7/6/2017 10:12 am
Em Tunnell has to be the second best..and I'm gonna count Stray as no. 3.
fourth??? Banks? Carson, Huff, Robestelli, Hamilton, Mendanhall??? Jason Sehorn if he'd been healthy ?

I have a feeling that it's none of the above and that he's playing for us right now. That's how good I think this crew is.
And to make it even better (and to put it into perspective) I think it could be any of: Snacks, Collins, JackRabbit, JPP, or Vernon (we haven't seen his best side yet).
That's an incredible statement, but when you analyse it...it's tough to disagree with and makes testimony to how good this unit is (or potentially could be).
The man who never (in my judgement) gets enough credit is Cromartie, but objectively this guy should be in the hunt too.
To extend the point...Kennard, Robinson, Apple, D.Thompson and Cassillas are all very good pros too...So I think it's time (as long as we limit it to potential) to start wondering if this unit overall [because LT had Toast and some other weak links] is the strongest unit we've ever fielded.
My personal answer? Yes - provided Tomlinson and D. Thompson are top notch - this unit has the potential to be the strongest defensive unit overall that we've ever fielded....(well, Grier, Kat, Andy, Mo, Livingstone, Savre, Huff, Patton, Barnes, Lynch, Nolan, please forgive me, it's a slow time when speculation is allowed).
Carson has to be given  
joeinpa : 7/6/2017 10:17 am : link
The edge here, but Mendenhall was a great player during a down era for the Giants
healthy sehorn  
annexOPR : 7/6/2017 10:18 am : link
was the 1st to come to mind ... oh what could've been.
But what Banks did in  
joeinpa : 7/6/2017 10:19 am : link
90 Super Bowl is tough to overlook
Tuck  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 7/6/2017 10:22 am : link
Tuck is an all time Giant.
Banks belongs in the top 5, no doubt.  
annexOPR : 7/6/2017 10:23 am : link
I just really started following the Giants as Sehorn was "ascending" (I'm early 30s) and remember being in awe of his potential ...

at full health he was literally a prototype corner. I felt sick when he got injured.
Carson.....  
No Where Man : 7/6/2017 10:26 am : link
9 Pro Bowls....
RE: Banks belongs in the top 5, no doubt.  
annexOPR : 7/6/2017 10:27 am : link
In comment 13520927 annexOPR said:
Quote:
I just really started following the Giants as Sehorn was "ascending" (I'm early 30s) and remember being in awe of his potential ...

at full health he was literally a prototype corner. I felt sick when he got injured.


whoops ... I meant Carson. *sorry work meeting
I think you gotta go Sam Huff here  
Jimmy Googs : 7/6/2017 10:39 am : link
at some point soon.

To think he is not in the Top 5 would be head-scratching...
I don't think you can play "all time"  
Moondawg : 7/6/2017 10:41 am : link
if you can't name defensive 30 players before 1957.
Its either Huff, Robustelli, or Carson, no one else should even be in  
Elisha10 : 7/6/2017 10:47 am : link
the conversation. I will go with Carson because he was a life long Giant.

LT, Tunnell, Carson, Robustelli  
Big Blue '56 : 7/6/2017 10:55 am : link
.
Don't know that I would pick him as #4 all time  
Greg from LI : 7/6/2017 10:58 am : link
But a guy who should be in the conversation, yet rarely is, is Leonard Marshall.
Carson  
Sec 103 : 7/6/2017 11:02 am : link
Mendenhall was a beast but alas for lousy teams.
Doesn't anyone else remember Spider Lockhart?  
njm : 7/6/2017 11:11 am : link
He should be in the conversation.
Spider was a great Giant, but he wouldn't even crack the top 10  
Elisha10 : 7/6/2017 11:25 am : link
He wouldn't even be the Giants second best safety, that would be Jimmy Patton, why hasn't he been mentioned yet, how does Spider or Sehorn get mentioned before him, he was a 5 time pro bowler, 5 time all pro, 12 years as a Giants, part of the 1956 Giants, should be in the HOF!
I was thinking of Patton and for 4-5 years, Erich Barnes,  
Big Blue '56 : 7/6/2017 11:28 am : link
but I'll stick with my 4 mentioned above
RE: LT, Tunnell, Carson, Robustelli  
dune69 : 7/6/2017 11:36 am : link
In comment 13520995 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
.


I agree with this order. I did not see Tunnell play but I wish I had the chance. LT is obvious, loved Carson and Robustelli.
How can it not be Harry Carson?  
PatersonPlank : 7/6/2017 11:37 am : link
Football HOF 2006
9 Pro Bowls
Super Bowl winner
Captain

IMO, that resume puts him above Strahan and probably Tunnell as the #2 defensive player.
Are we talking career or for peak season?  
mfsd : 7/6/2017 11:54 am : link
Career, it's Carson, easily IMO

If we're talking for one season (or for brief period in their peak), you could make the case for 97 Sehorn, 2016 Collins, Banks in his prime, Tuck at his best, 2000 Armstead too I think, and I'm sure many others I'm forgetting
#4? Choose from among Carson, Banks, Huff and Sehorn  
Ivan15 : 7/6/2017 12:16 pm : link
I will pick a guy who can dominate and absolutely take over a game.

I could accept any of these four but, in my mind, Huff stands out as the one player who could totally shut down an offense. Banks and Carson are close too.
I'd go with Sam Huff,  
Ira : 7/6/2017 12:31 pm : link
but it's a tough choice. A lot of good arguments have been made for some great Giants.
Mel Hein.  
truebluelarry : 7/6/2017 12:41 pm : link
He could tackle a monster like Bronko Nagurski one week then cover the best WR of all time Don Hutson the next.

And he played 60 minutes of every game at center on offense.

Hein might actually be tied with Lawrence Taylor for #1.
Agree with Carson as #2  
WideRight : 7/6/2017 12:47 pm : link
Don't know Tunnel at all, so can't compare to Strahan...
And I don't think there is anyone on this team that cracks the top ten  
WideRight : 7/6/2017 12:49 pm : link
Yet....
of course, we also had  
grizz299 : 7/6/2017 1:19 pm : link
a pretty good defensive back named Tom Landry.
Maybe "peripherals" should count. Not only a HOF coach, but a pilot in WWII. He flew before the P-51 and when the squadrons were unaccompanied and defenseless against the Luftwaffe and anti aircraft guns. The average life of a bomber crew was about four missions. They sent you home if you survived 12, it was that dangerous.
You could make the argument, that he's the most innovative coach of all time.. Introduces the 4-3, sophisticated zone coverages, the flex defense, men in motion and mulitple sets. Takes a track star named Bullet Bob and introduces speed to the game in a different changing way.
Broaden the proposition and he might have to be considered....
All those posts  
grizz299 : 7/6/2017 1:31 pm : link
and not one mention of Stray....C'mon he has to be in the conversation.
And no one thinks the current crew will supply a candidate?
I think that even at this point...Snacks is top ten and moving up.
Everytime I see one of these lists  
Elisthebest : 7/6/2017 1:35 pm : link
(although enjoyable) in my head I think Carl Banks is the most underrated athlete in the history of mankind
RE: All those posts  
bradshaw44 : 7/6/2017 3:06 pm : link
In comment 13521215 grizz299 said:
Quote:
and not one mention of Stray....C'mon he has to be in the conversation.
And no one thinks the current crew will supply a candidate?
I think that even at this point...Snacks is top ten and moving up.


Strahan is listed several times above.
Lawrence Taylor, Michael Strahan, Emlen Tunnel and Harry Carson #4  
SGMen : 7/6/2017 3:11 pm : link
with Carol Banks #5.

There is not one single Giant who right now is even near Top 10 and that includes JPP. You can't put a guy whose played for us for but one year on a Top 10 list. 5 years minimum I' think. Hard to compare 50's to 90's to current times due to UFA.
Spider Lockhart has to be considered  
WillieYoung : 7/6/2017 3:15 pm : link
Jim Files broke my heart by retiring early so he's off my list. Mark Haynes was good but not good enough for this list.
Sadly, I have to ask  
Elisthebest : 7/6/2017 3:25 pm : link
Would Troy Archer be in the conversation?
Because I'm 58...  
mvftw : 7/6/2017 4:05 pm : link
I love Carson, but Banks was a beast at the Strong Side...and won 2 rings...
RE: Because I'm 58...  
SGMen : 7/6/2017 4:25 pm : link
In comment 13521352 mvftw said:
Quote:
I love Carson, but Banks was a beast at the Strong Side...and won 2 rings...
Banks would still start in today's NFL. Harry Carson would likely be too slow in this passing league. But you go by the era they played in an Harry was the best at stuffing the run. I've run into Harry Carson in Bergen County more than once, nice guy, same with Howard Cross.
Jimmy Patton?  
Doomster : 7/6/2017 5:03 pm : link
What about Dick Lynch?
DL Arnie Weinmeister (the forgotton legend)  
kinard : 7/6/2017 5:25 pm : link
Though he played only four seasons with the Giants, he absolutely dominated on defense during that time.

Elected to both the Pro Bowl and the All Pro team from 1950-1953 (his four years with the Jints).

Sure, because he was only a a Giant for four years, its a stretch to consider him 4th best ever but that 4 year run was good as anyone whoever played on the Giants (with the exception of maybe ET and that guy #56).

RE: DL Arnie Weinmeister (the forgotton legend)  
Ed A. : 7/6/2017 5:46 pm : link
In comment 13521447 kinard said:
Quote:
Though he played only four seasons with the Giants, he absolutely dominated on defense during that time.

Elected to both the Pro Bowl and the All Pro team from 1950-1953 (his four years with the Jints).

Sure, because he was only a a Giant for four years, its a stretch to consider him 4th best ever but that 4 year run was good as anyone whoever played on the Giants (with the exception of maybe ET and that guy #56).

You nailed it. Most posters do not remember the old timers and tend to ignore them. Weinmeister was the first DT to make a tremendous impact. Extremely strong and quick.
Still trying to find stats on this guy....  
Doomster : 7/7/2017 7:48 am : link
DL Arnie Weinmeister (the forgotton legend)
kinard : 7/6/2017 5:25 pm : link : reply

Sure, because he was only a a Giant for four years, its a stretch to consider him 4th best ever but that 4 year run was good as anyone whoever played on the Giants (with the exception of maybe ET and that guy #56).

It's Banks...  
x meadowlander : 7/7/2017 11:15 am : link
...playing in LT's shadow, in 85 and 86, Banks wasn't just the best linebacker on the Giants - I think he was the leagues best defensive player, period.

And in the playoffs, he REALLY turned it on.
Anybody that rates  
section125 : 7/7/2017 1:35 pm : link
Carl Banks over Harry Carson is nuts. Not a put down of Carl who was a great OLB, but Carson was better longer than Carl. Carl may have had what some could consider a better/more dynamic season or two lifetime, but Harry was better longer (9 Pro Bowls and belated HoF) and the Captain.

LT
Strahan
Tunnell
Carson
Huff/Robustelli/Banks
Mendenhall/Marshall

Anyway, my opinion, with respect to all.
Mel Hein (played both OL and DL)...  
BMac : 7/7/2017 1:52 pm : link
...Dick Lynch, Jim Katcavage, Arnie Weinmeister.
Belichick  
bigfish703 : 7/8/2017 12:18 pm : link
If you extend your concept of great defense.
You got the top 3 right  
Torrag : 7/8/2017 12:23 pm : link
With the Giants storied defensive history spanning decades we'll just call it an eighteen way tie for 4th and leave it at that.
In their prime ...  
Manny in CA : 7/8/2017 9:18 pm : link

LT, Tunnell, JPP, Huff
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