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Will TE Engram be able to impact the Giants as a Rookie?

gidiefor : Mod : 7/6/2017 11:21 am
With the demand being high and the track records of rookie TEs being low - how reasonable is it to argue that he can have an impact this year?
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40-50 catches and 500 yards with a handful of touchdown  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/7/2017 12:25 am : link
would be a huge impact if he shows that he can play right out of the gate and doesn't have any Larry Donnell or Will Tye type moments of idiocy. Just being a good player at the position would be an impact. Forget putting a yardage quota on it.
RE: 40-50 catches and 500 yards with a handful of touchdown  
SGMen : 7/7/2017 12:31 am : link
In comment 13521770 Ten Ton Hammer said:
[quote] would be a huge impact if he shows that he can play right out of the gate and doesn't have any Larry Donnell or Will Tye type moments of idiocy. Just being a good player at the position would be an impact. Forget putting a yardage quota on it. [/quote All Engram needs to do is scare defenses, keep safeties honest, just fly down the middle and open things up for the run game and wideouts.

But my hope is that by the last few games he is deadly and carries us into the playoffs.
RE: His IMPACT will not be in his  
WillVAB : 7/7/2017 12:42 am : link
In comment 13521522 MarvelousMike said:
Quote:
personal stats that some here want to focus on. I would grade it on what improvements the offense has in overall passing stats and rankings along with overall offensive stats.


This is an important point. The Engram pick on some level had to be a counter strategy to how defenses neutralized them last year. If the WRs are making impact plays and the offense is scoring more points, I'll consider that a win even if Engram doesn't have the stats.
If Engram is as advertised, this is more about McAdoo than anything  
Bob in Newburgh : 7/7/2017 9:37 am : link
It is Engram (not OBJ) lining up as TE or H-b who is the matchup nightmare, particularly if he is a good enough blocker to neutralize smaller players. If a CB covers EE, than you opt into a running play if down and distance allow.

If McAdoo allows it, I could see the Giants offense morphing into an option based offense with the play selected by Eli at the line depending on who is covering EE. It may be a LB, S, or CB. As a defender, each has a physical disability when trying to cover and/or tackle him that can and should be exploited.

I am not belittling OBJ here. I assume he will be covered most of the time by at least a CB with deep S help.
EE is not the only one out there  
PatersonPlank : 7/7/2017 9:42 am : link
OBJ, Marshall, and Shepard are all established, and all demand more throws (so to speak) than EE. EE needs to come in and be part of the squad, not the leader. If he is catching 700-800 yds of passes that would be great. It would take a lot of heat off of our other guys, who are All-Pro's, and be a solid rookie contribution.
No argument here  
Bob in Newburgh : 7/7/2017 10:01 am : link
EE however, even more than BM because of his speed is the physical mismatch which may be the key to the play called at the line.

Where the ball ends up is affected but not determined by this. The greatest beneficiary of the conumdrum that Giants pose to other teams is apt to be BM. He is likely to be singled against a player the physical equivalent of Trevin Wade.
..  
Dodge : 7/7/2017 1:58 pm : link
2016:
Sheppard had 65/683/8
Tye had 48/395/1

If Engram has ~55 catches and 450 yards with a handful of TDs I would call that impactful for a rookie.

He he closes in on 90% of Sheps's stats from last year, watch out.
In terms of mismatches, gotta be able to get Engram  
Jimmy Googs : 7/7/2017 2:07 pm : link
lined up in coverage versus a few LBs and make the defense pay.

That will draw Safety attention to keep an eye on him. And then we fire off a few to OBJ when they dare to single him up.

Easy...
And I know it's not that easy but we should expect  
Jimmy Googs : 7/7/2017 2:23 pm : link
what everybody did last year with 2 deep safety look until we do something to bring them out of it. And that's either run more effectively or send an athletic TE into seem.

Not confident how much the run blocking will improve so McAdoo damn well better take this new TE out for a ride early in games....
RE: Yes but only if the O-line can sustain their blocks  
Jersey55 : 7/7/2017 4:20 pm : link
In comment 13521142 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
If the o-line can't hold blocks long enough, teams will continue to smother OBJ and a pass-catching TE won't be a factor.

I think the addition of Brandon Marshall will be a strong factor in allowing OBJ to get open a whole lot more than he did last year and that alone will be enough to improve the running game as well......
In the past with Tye...  
Dan in the Springs : 7/7/2017 4:25 pm : link
it seemed most of the routes he ran were shallow crossing routes. I think even running these routes Engram has a chance to make big plays given his speed.

However, reports out of mini-camp said he was lining up all over, split wide, etc. If they get into a situation where he motions to one side alone and they have to cover him with a safety or LB it's going to be tough. I expect when Eli sees that coverage he's going to pounce on it regularly.
RE: In the past with Tye...  
SGMen : 7/7/2017 5:41 pm : link
In comment 13522510 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
it seemed most of the routes he ran were shallow crossing routes. I think even running these routes Engram has a chance to make big plays given his speed.

However, reports out of mini-camp said he was lining up all over, split wide, etc. If they get into a situation where he motions to one side alone and they have to cover him with a safety or LB it's going to be tough. I expect when Eli sees that coverage he's going to pounce on it regularly.
Agreed. I've been saying all off-season that this year Eli and staff will take a page out of the New England playbook where they just hit the wide-open or most open guy, the mismatch on the field, and move the chains and wear you down.

Engram on a LB is a "throw it to me situation" for sure.
i think we keep looking at stats as the measurement  
blueblood : 7/7/2017 9:00 pm : link
instead of looking at multiple offensive formations and the ability to confuse a defense with alignments.
RE: i think we keep looking at stats as the measurement  
SGMen : 7/7/2017 9:02 pm : link
In comment 13522758 blueblood said:
Quote:
instead of looking at multiple offensive formations and the ability to confuse a defense with alignments.
Truth. The would be the complete opposite of last year. We are going to mix it up much more this year with 2 TE sets; 3 WR sets; possibly 1 TE and 1 FB (S. Smith); etc.

Engram helps us create mis-matches due to his skillset and speed.
forget stats  
annexOPR : 7/7/2017 9:10 pm : link
how can you possibly game plan to contain Marshall, Shepard, Engram, and Beckham?

If Engram is legit, this passing game is impossible to match up with. Beckham and Engram alone will be nightmares.
RE: forget stats  
SGMen : 7/7/2017 9:14 pm : link
In comment 13522762 annexOPR said:
Quote:
how can you possibly game plan to contain Marshall, Shepard, Engram, and Beckham?

If Engram is legit, this passing game is impossible to match up with. Beckham and Engram alone will be nightmares.
And if the OL improves by a good margin, our skill players truly become a nightmare matchup for most any defense. I look forward to the wrinkles that should be added.
blitz, blitz, blitz,  
annexOPR : 7/7/2017 9:19 pm : link
hope to get to Eli before the pass is thrown ... I really have no idea how else you game plan for that attack.

quick outs to Shepard, slants to Beckham, back shoulder fades to Marshall, Engram vs a slower LB or smaller DB ...

I can not wait to embarrass Dallas in primetime. they do not have the personnel to exploit the OL, even if it does suck.
RE: blitz, blitz, blitz,  
SGMen : 7/7/2017 9:22 pm : link
In comment 13522775 annexOPR said:
Quote:
hope to get to Eli before the pass is thrown ... I really have no idea how else you game plan for that attack.

quick outs to Shepard, slants to Beckham, back shoulder fades to Marshall, Engram vs a slower LB or smaller DB ...

I can not wait to embarrass Dallas in primetime. they do not have the personnel to exploit the OL, even if it does suck.
Agreed on Dallas with their personnel. They will struggle on defense out of the gates. I see Eli hitting the wide open (uncovered) TE, RB and the open WR, TE, and keep moving the chains just like New England does. If you blitz Eli this year and its picked up he will torch you with these personnel.
From a statistical basis as a individual performer, likely no.  
Jim in Forest Hills : 7/8/2017 10:07 am : link
That being said, his numbers dont need to be exceptional, they just need to be enough to keep defenses honest. A few catches down the seam threatening slower LBs and safeties impacts the defense. If he just murders a LB and the defense switches packages, can the Giants run the ball more effectively? If the safety has to look at Engram more because he is blowing by coverage, does that take away attention from OBJ and Marshall?

His rookie year, he just needs to be good enough that the defenses will defend him better, having a trickle down effect on everyone else.
RE: RE: blitz, blitz, blitz,  
annexOPR : 7/8/2017 10:18 am : link
In comment 13522780 SGMen said:
Quote:
In comment 13522775 annexOPR said:


Quote:


hope to get to Eli before the pass is thrown ... I really have no idea how else you game plan for that attack.

quick outs to Shepard, slants to Beckham, back shoulder fades to Marshall, Engram vs a slower LB or smaller DB ...

I can not wait to embarrass Dallas in primetime. they do not have the personnel to exploit the OL, even if it does suck.

Agreed on Dallas with their personnel. They will struggle on defense out of the gates. I see Eli hitting the wide open (uncovered) TE, RB and the open WR, TE, and keep moving the chains just like New England does. If you blitz Eli this year and its picked up he will torch you with these personnel.


not included: swing pass to Vereen ... this season can't start soon enough
every off season we say that no team  
Jersey55 : 7/8/2017 10:56 am : link
will be able to match up with our receivers and that we will be unstoppable but the other teams always do find a way to stop us, we seem to say the same things every year......
RE: every off season we say that no team  
annexOPR : 7/8/2017 11:01 am : link
In comment 13522984 Jersey55 said:
Quote:
will be able to match up with our receivers and that we will be unstoppable but the other teams always do find a way to stop us, we seem to say the same things every year......


yeah ... all those seasons this team had 1 of the best players in the entire league paired with a 6'5 monster redzone target and a 2nd year slot receiver who put up 8 TDs as a rookie and a TE who is athletically superior to some of the best WRs in the game ...

RE: every off season we say that no team  
Klaatu : 7/8/2017 11:10 am : link
In comment 13522984 Jersey55 said:
Quote:
will be able to match up with our receivers and that we will be unstoppable but the other teams always do find a way to stop us, we seem to say the same things every year......


That's simply not true.

Maybe last year many of us expected a lot more from Victor Cruz and a couple of our TEs, but it's not like it's said every offseason. Quite the contrary, I believe.
RE: every off season we say that no team  
Jimmy Googs : 7/8/2017 11:46 am : link
In comment 13522984 Jersey55 said:
Quote:
will be able to match up with our receivers and that we will be unstoppable but the other teams always do find a way to stop us, we seem to say the same things every year......


just pacing ourselves really...
RE: every off season we say that no team  
SGMen : 7/8/2017 1:40 pm : link
In comment 13522984 Jersey55 said:
Quote:
will be able to match up with our receivers and that we will be unstoppable but the other teams always do find a way to stop us, we seem to say the same things every year......
2016 was the only year I can think of where many prognosticators, including myself, over-valued the team's receiving corps.

While we had a great year with injuries overall, losing blocking FB/TE Johnson (neck burner); RB Vereen (triceps); and seeing not development from Tye or Donnell really hurt.

I've said all off-season had just Johnson an Vereen stayed healthy all year we'd have had much better success. But I guess every team can say that?
Engram has to demonstrate that he can get off the line of scrimmage  
GeofromNJ : 7/9/2017 2:58 pm : link
and lose defenders. This means, besting NFL linebackers and eluding NFL free safeties. If he can do both, he will have an impact. Otherwise, he will spend 2017 learning the NFL game.
RE: Engram has to demonstrate that he can get off the line of scrimmage  
SGMen : 7/9/2017 5:05 pm : link
In comment 13523765 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
and lose defenders. This means, besting NFL linebackers and eluding NFL free safeties. If he can do both, he will have an impact. Otherwise, he will spend 2017 learning the NFL game.
Beating the inline JAM will be absolutely key in determining how good Evan Engram will (or won't) be for the Giants. Some guys are "so so" versus the JAM. But with Engram you can move him so he doesn't have as much of an issue at least.

We'll know more about that about half-way into camp I guess and certainly by the end of the first quarter of the season, just watching how the Giants use him.
...  
annexOPR : 7/9/2017 6:10 pm : link
if only players were allowed to go in motion before the snap ...
RE: ...  
Klaatu : 7/9/2017 7:19 pm : link
In comment 13523935 annexOPR said:
Quote:
if only players were allowed to go in motion before the snap ...


Are you crazy? The league would never allow it!
Learning the NFL game?  
annexOPR : 7/9/2017 8:24 pm : link
He's a 230+ pound freak of nature who can outrun AJ Green and Deandre Hopkins while 1 of the best players in the league draws almost all of the defense's attention

I believe the NFL is going to be forced to learn how to deal with him, not the other way around.
RE: Learning the NFL game?  
SGMen : 7/9/2017 8:37 pm : link
In comment 13523968 annexOPR said:
Quote:
He's a 230+ pound freak of nature who can outrun AJ Green and Deandre Hopkins while 1 of the best players in the league draws almost all of the defense's attention

I believe the NFL is going to be forced to learn how to deal with him, not the other way around.
I hope you are right. I believe that by the second half of the season he'll be quite special.
I see Evan Engram in motion; inline; even in the slot finding the mismatches that will be there. I for one am super glad we drafted this young man with big upside.
Some of these comments, if you didn't know anything of the pick  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/9/2017 8:37 pm : link
would make you think the Giants drafted a fifth-round guy they're just hoping can add something.
He was lined up everywhere at OTAs  
annexOPR : 7/9/2017 8:44 pm : link
... the Giants drafted their own version of Jordan Reed/Aaron Hernandez

only ours is faster, isn't a known gang member, and has Odell Beckham Jr. occupying defenses.

I can't f'ing wait for the Dallas game.

To answer the OP  
adamg : 7/9/2017 8:45 pm : link
Yes. I expect he'll show that his refined game, speed, hands, and most importantly his mentality (smarts, dedication, and drive) will prove to be enough that he can be hot from out of the gate.

Hunter Henry was the consensus top TE last year. He joined a team with an All Pro TE already which limited his utility, and he ended up with 8 TDs and near 500 yards. That was on fewer targets than Will Tye got (who finished with 400 yards and 1 single TD). So, if we can imagine Engram as not only a better player (drafter higher by a team with a good track record in the first) but a player whose skillset was lauded mostly for his receiving skills, we may assume he'll have an even bigger season than Henry did last year (in 15 games with 10 starts).

I'm thinking and 50 catch 800 yard 8 TD year is within reach and not a stretch, especially with how game ready a lot of these receivers and TEs have been as of late.
RE: Learning the NFL game?  
David in LA : 7/9/2017 9:03 pm : link
In comment 13523968 annexOPR said:
Quote:
He's a 230+ pound freak of nature who can outrun AJ Green and Deandre Hopkins while 1 of the best players in the league draws almost all of the defense's attention

I believe the NFL is going to be forced to learn how to deal with him, not the other way around.


That 2 deep shell coverage will be rendered obsolete with Engram's presence, and especially so if Perkins is the real deal on the ground.
RE: RE: Learning the NFL game?  
SGMen : 7/10/2017 12:33 am : link
In comment 13523990 David in LA said:
Quote:
In comment 13523968 annexOPR said:


Quote:


He's a 230+ pound freak of nature who can outrun AJ Green and Deandre Hopkins while 1 of the best players in the league draws almost all of the defense's attention

I believe the NFL is going to be forced to learn how to deal with him, not the other way around.



That 2 deep shell coverage will be rendered obsolete with Engram's presence, and especially so if Perkins is the real deal on the ground.
The 2 deep shell worked to take away OBJ and leave the rest of our receiving corps single covered. We had limited formations we could line up in due to a lack of talent.

This year, we can go 3 WR; 2 WR; 1 WR and 3 TE; the list should be pretty long and diverse which is a huge bonus and will make it hard for teams to prepare for us. We just need the OL to develop. That is the big question mark, especially OT
...  
annexOPR : 7/10/2017 12:27 pm : link
here's a little refresher of this guy's freakish (unfair?) athleticism ...

jordan reed is considered a "matchup nightmare"
Engram ... go deep - ( New Window )
RE: ...  
SGMen : 7/10/2017 12:34 pm : link
In comment 13524316 annexOPR said:
Quote:
here's a little refresher of this guy's freakish (unfair?) athleticism ...

jordan reed is considered a "matchup nightmare" Engram ... go deep - ( New Window )
4.42 at 234 pounds is outright sick speed. Engram and OBJ go "stride for stride" based on the stats. I can see this kid juking out many a LB or SS. If teams put a 3rd corner on him you also have the option to mix up a run as he can block (he's willing and able as the coaches stated) and such.
Imagine if he has an "OBJ rookie year" type impact for the season? 65-900-8 type numbers or something? Eli's mouth has to be watering with this type of vertical threat down the middle.
RE: RE: ...  
annexOPR : 7/10/2017 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13524328 SGMen said:
Quote:
In comment 13524316 annexOPR said:


Quote:


here's a little refresher of this guy's freakish (unfair?) athleticism ...

jordan reed is considered a "matchup nightmare" Engram ... go deep - ( New Window )

4.42 at 234 pounds is outright sick speed. Engram and OBJ go "stride for stride" based on the stats. I can see this kid juking out many a LB or SS. If teams put a 3rd corner on him you also have the option to mix up a run as he can block (he's willing and able as the coaches stated) and such.
Imagine if he has an "OBJ rookie year" type impact for the season? 65-900-8 type numbers or something? Eli's mouth has to be watering with this type of vertical threat down the middle.


with a 3-cone identical to aj green, better than mike Evans/sammy Watkins ... and more short area quickness than Julio Jones.

I'm so glad the "TE" label allowed him to drop ... I have no idea why those WRs went so much earlier than him.


F R E A K - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: ...  
SGMen : 7/10/2017 1:44 pm : link
In comment 13524334 annexOPR said:
Quote:
In comment 13524328 SGMen said:


Quote:


In comment 13524316 annexOPR said:


Quote:


here's a little refresher of this guy's freakish (unfair?) athleticism ...

jordan reed is considered a "matchup nightmare" Engram ... go deep - ( New Window )

4.42 at 234 pounds is outright sick speed. Engram and OBJ go "stride for stride" based on the stats. I can see this kid juking out many a LB or SS. If teams put a 3rd corner on him you also have the option to mix up a run as he can block (he's willing and able as the coaches stated) and such.
Imagine if he has an "OBJ rookie year" type impact for the season? 65-900-8 type numbers or something? Eli's mouth has to be watering with this type of vertical threat down the middle.



with a 3-cone identical to aj green, better than mike Evans/sammy Watkins ... and more short area quickness than Julio Jones.

I'm so glad the "TE" label allowed him to drop ... I have no idea why those WRs went so much earlier than him.
F R E A K - ( New Window )
August 11 and the first pre-season game can't come fast enough. I'll be focusing on the first team OL; Engram and D. Tomlinson the most. Engram is a physical beast.
his biggest impact will be moving the chains ala Witten  
gtt350 : 7/12/2017 9:04 am : link
.
I don't think he has to make a huge impact, but he'll help.  
Andy in Halifax : 7/12/2017 9:17 am : link
He's most likely 4th or 5th on the team in targets assuming everyone stays healthy. I'll guess 50-60 targets 40-45 catches for 500 yards.
Yes, I expect him to have a significant  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/12/2017 9:21 am : link
impact.
the "impact"  
annexOPR : 7/12/2017 10:05 am : link
will not be a monster season stat line ...

it'll be when forcing teams to think twice about that cover 2 shell / double Odell they saw all year last season ... and he will burn them accordingly

4.4 speed at his size will be doing a lot more than "moving the chains"
Long Post Warning..  
blueblood : 7/12/2017 10:51 am : link
Im going to reiterate some things I have said on prioer threads shortly after the draft. Evan Engram should have significant impact on the Giants this year BEYOND how many catches, yards and TD. Those are stats.. I believe what is far more important is formations and how you stress the defense.

What Engram will allow the Giants to do ( as well as the additions of other players) is be multiple.

As McAdoo said in his interview on Wfan after the draft and it was a small point that most didnt pick up on. They will be MULTIPLE.. meaning they will be Multiple in their offensive formations and fronts. Obviously they can very depending on the defensive alignments they see, down, distance and position on the field.. which is good.

Giants played 1062 snaps on offense last year.

Will Tye played 682 of those snaps 64.12%...

think bout that for a second.. Will Tye played 65% of the Giants offensive snap counts..

Would you rather have Will Tye out there 65% of the time.. or Evan Engram out there 65% of the time?? Who do you think the defense is going to worry about more? Poor route running Tye or Good route running Big and FAST Engram.. That already stresses the defense. I can easily cover Tye with a LB or Safety.. Engram is too fast for most LB's and Safeties.. So do I then utilize a corner.. but if I do that then that opens up things for Marshall, OBJ or Shep. If I put a safety on Engram then that means there is no over the top help for the guy covering OBJ.

Impact.. without even catching a pass..

Just looking at a post on Personnel groupings and thinking about the Giants. It seems that 11 Personnel is the dominant package for NFL teams who play out of it more than 50% of the time.

I think the issue with the Giants is WHO makes up that group. They have the flexibility to utilize different players in that group and now they have the ability to " be Multiple " in terms of which formation or set they are in.

For example I was looking and thinking..

They could come out in a 12 Personnel package.. One RB, 2 TE's and 2 WR's with Perkins, Ellison, Marshall, OBJ, Engram. Then they could flex Engram out wide into an 11 Personnel package with Engram being a WR. They could also do the reverse.

If your the defense.. now what do you do.. It looked like a 2 TE run package and now its a 3WR package which they could run or pass out of easily..

They can easily use 00, 01, 02(a favorite of the Patriots when they had Hernandez), 10, 11, 12, even 13,

They could use a 20 package with 3 WR's and 2 RB's with Perkins and Vereen on the field could become a 10 with Vereen being used as a WR.. Or they could put Engram in the backfield as an Hback with Perkins OR Vereen. They could put Engram and Vereen in the backfield and then switch to either a 00 or Five WR's with Engram and Vereen becoming receivers.. OR they go to a 10 with Vereen staying in at RB and Engram being the 4th WR

Because of the personnel they should be able to show a defense multiple looks and multiple formation and better disguise what they are doing or change to one formation or another to potentially exploit a defense.

This is also why people worrying about Engram cutting into Shepard's snaps is somewhat overblown. There are at least 6 of these formations that utilize a minimum of 3 receivers. And with Engram being a Move TE or Hback (he has lined up in the backfield in college) both he and Shepard can be on the field at the same time in at least 4 of these formations..

Idiotsavant has also brought up on several occasions how the Falcons utilize a 13 personnel that they both run and pass very effectively out of with multiple TE's especially in the red zone.

It will be interesting to see what McAdoo does with the tools he has now..

So that being said.. I can easily see Engram having IMPACT in the way his abilities allow the Giants to run multiple offensive formations which will challenge a stretch a defense.

Think about this for a second. OBJ has been an absolute MONSTER his first three years with Ruben Randle, a broke down, not suited for the outside Victor Cruz and NO TE.. and a poor running game..

Imagine how much can open up for him with a solid WR opposite him, an improved running game with Perkins, Gallman and a healthy Vereen AND a TE who can attack and stress defenders...

IMPACT


...  
annexOPR : 7/12/2017 11:01 am : link
this will do. I'm expecting at least 1 of these @ Dallas.
"Impact" - ( New Window )
RE: Long Post Warning..  
SGMen : 7/12/2017 11:22 am : link
In comment 13526166 blueblood said:
Quote:
Im going to reiterate some things I have said on prioer threads shortly after the draft. Evan Engram should have significant impact on the Giants this year BEYOND how many catches, yards and TD. Those are stats.. I believe what is far more important is formations and how you stress the defense.

What Engram will allow the Giants to do ( as well as the additions of other players) is be multiple.

As McAdoo said in his interview on Wfan after the draft and it was a small point that most didnt pick up on. They will be MULTIPLE.. meaning they will be Multiple in their offensive formations and fronts. Obviously they can very depending on the defensive alignments they see, down, distance and position on the field.. which is good.

Giants played 1062 snaps on offense last year.

Will Tye played 682 of those snaps 64.12%...

think bout that for a second.. Will Tye played 65% of the Giants offensive snap counts..

Would you rather have Will Tye out there 65% of the time.. or Evan Engram out there 65% of the time?? Who do you think the defense is going to worry about more? Poor route running Tye or Good route running Big and FAST Engram.. That already stresses the defense. I can easily cover Tye with a LB or Safety.. Engram is too fast for most LB's and Safeties.. So do I then utilize a corner.. but if I do that then that opens up things for Marshall, OBJ or Shep. If I put a safety on Engram then that means there is no over the top help for the guy covering OBJ.

Impact.. without even catching a pass..

Just looking at a post on Personnel groupings and thinking about the Giants. It seems that 11 Personnel is the dominant package for NFL teams who play out of it more than 50% of the time.

I think the issue with the Giants is WHO makes up that group. They have the flexibility to utilize different players in that group and now they have the ability to " be Multiple " in terms of which formation or set they are in.

For example I was looking and thinking..

They could come out in a 12 Personnel package.. One RB, 2 TE's and 2 WR's with Perkins, Ellison, Marshall, OBJ, Engram. Then they could flex Engram out wide into an 11 Personnel package with Engram being a WR. They could also do the reverse.

If your the defense.. now what do you do.. It looked like a 2 TE run package and now its a 3WR package which they could run or pass out of easily..

They can easily use 00, 01, 02(a favorite of the Patriots when they had Hernandez), 10, 11, 12, even 13,

They could use a 20 package with 3 WR's and 2 RB's with Perkins and Vereen on the field could become a 10 with Vereen being used as a WR.. Or they could put Engram in the backfield as an Hback with Perkins OR Vereen. They could put Engram and Vereen in the backfield and then switch to either a 00 or Five WR's with Engram and Vereen becoming receivers.. OR they go to a 10 with Vereen staying in at RB and Engram being the 4th WR

Because of the personnel they should be able to show a defense multiple looks and multiple formation and better disguise what they are doing or change to one formation or another to potentially exploit a defense.

This is also why people worrying about Engram cutting into Shepard's snaps is somewhat overblown. There are at least 6 of these formations that utilize a minimum of 3 receivers. And with Engram being a Move TE or Hback (he has lined up in the backfield in college) both he and Shepard can be on the field at the same time in at least 4 of these formations..

Idiotsavant has also brought up on several occasions how the Falcons utilize a 13 personnel that they both run and pass very effectively out of with multiple TE's especially in the red zone.

It will be interesting to see what McAdoo does with the tools he has now..

So that being said.. I can easily see Engram having IMPACT in the way his abilities allow the Giants to run multiple offensive formations which will challenge a stretch a defense.

Think about this for a second. OBJ has been an absolute MONSTER his first three years with Ruben Randle, a broke down, not suited for the outside Victor Cruz and NO TE.. and a poor running game..

Imagine how much can open up for him with a solid WR opposite him, an improved running game with Perkins, Gallman and a healthy Vereen AND a TE who can attack and stress defenders...

IMPACT

I totally concur with your first paragraph: Engram automatically stresses a defense due to his size & speed ration which is outright sick good at 4.42 40 yd dash, as fast as OBJ, .01 faster actually and he is 3" and 35 pounds bigger to boot!
If Engram can beat that young Dallas secondary deep down the middle for 40 or more yards and a score he will set the tone for himself and the offense the rest of the year as safeties will be put on him and they'll stay back a bit due to his size and speed. He beats a jam and its over.
I know it's not this easy ...  
annexOPR : 7/12/2017 12:07 pm : link
but line Odell / Engram up on the same side of the formation ... Odell - go route; Engram - deep post ...

laugh at the cowboys "enthusiastic" defensive backs ...
RE: I know it's not this easy ...  
SGMen : 7/12/2017 9:34 pm : link
In comment 13526282 annexOPR said:
Quote:
but line Odell / Engram up on the same side of the formation ... Odell - go route; Engram - deep post ...

laugh at the cowboys "enthusiastic" defensive backs ...
I'm guessing there will be a lot of formations with Engram moving all over, Odell moving too, just various ones.

I'm really looking forward to the August 1st pre-season game, just to see how Engram does down the field as I'm sure they'll try him deep at least once for the experience.

RE: RE: I know it's not this easy ...  
annexOPR : 7/13/2017 11:20 am : link
In comment 13526833 SGMen said:
Quote:
In comment 13526282 annexOPR said:


Quote:


but line Odell / Engram up on the same side of the formation ... Odell - go route; Engram - deep post ...

laugh at the cowboys "enthusiastic" defensive backs ...

I'm guessing there will be a lot of formations with Engram moving all over, Odell moving too, just various ones.

I'm really looking forward to the August 1st pre-season game, just to see how Engram does down the field as I'm sure they'll try him deep at least once for the experience.


the possibilities are endless ... as along as Engram doesn't drop the ball - I really have no idea how defenses are going to contain Beckham and Engram ... while Shepard moves the chains ...

oh yeah, and then Brandon Marshall instead of the ghost of Victor Cruz ... Week 1 can not come fast enough.
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