Giants generally have a good track record on 1st rounders contributing in year one.
Apple, Flowers, Odell, Pugh, Amukamara, JPP, Nicks. Those are all Reese first rounders who contributed in year one. That is a good track record over the years indicating they know what they are doing in round 1.
It's up to Engram ultimately. But I trust the staffs judgement.
I LOVE what he brings to the table. Super quick. Explosive cutting ability. He's got better talent than Jordan Reed. And that guy is a beast in the NFL.
If the OL doesn't fall apart this team will compete for the Super Bowl this year. I'm really excited about this team.
I LOVE what he brings to the table. Super quick. Explosive cutting ability. He's got better talent than Jordan Reed. And that guy is a beast in the NFL.
If the OL doesn't fall apart this team will compete for the Super Bowl this year. I'm really excited about this team.
I often wonder if the Giants took Engram because of their experiences facing Jordan Reed. Hard to cover wideouts and the middle of the field deep.
Evan Engram seems polished. I had him at 45-600 but I'm going with 50-650-6 now as this thread has my blood going. LOL.
40-50 catches and 500 yards with a handful of touchdown
would be a huge impact if he shows that he can play right out of the gate and doesn't have any Larry Donnell or Will Tye type moments of idiocy. Just being a good player at the position would be an impact. Forget putting a yardage quota on it.
RE: 40-50 catches and 500 yards with a handful of touchdown
In comment 13521770 Ten Ton Hammer said:
[quote] would be a huge impact if he shows that he can play right out of the gate and doesn't have any Larry Donnell or Will Tye type moments of idiocy. Just being a good player at the position would be an impact. Forget putting a yardage quota on it. [/quote All Engram needs to do is scare defenses, keep safeties honest, just fly down the middle and open things up for the run game and wideouts.
But my hope is that by the last few games he is deadly and carries us into the playoffs.
personal stats that some here want to focus on. I would grade it on what improvements the offense has in overall passing stats and rankings along with overall offensive stats.
This is an important point. The Engram pick on some level had to be a counter strategy to how defenses neutralized them last year. If the WRs are making impact plays and the offense is scoring more points, I'll consider that a win even if Engram doesn't have the stats.
If Engram is as advertised, this is more about McAdoo than anything
It is Engram (not OBJ) lining up as TE or H-b who is the matchup nightmare, particularly if he is a good enough blocker to neutralize smaller players. If a CB covers EE, than you opt into a running play if down and distance allow.
If McAdoo allows it, I could see the Giants offense morphing into an option based offense with the play selected by Eli at the line depending on who is covering EE. It may be a LB, S, or CB. As a defender, each has a physical disability when trying to cover and/or tackle him that can and should be exploited.
I am not belittling OBJ here. I assume he will be covered most of the time by at least a CB with deep S help.
OBJ, Marshall, and Shepard are all established, and all demand more throws (so to speak) than EE. EE needs to come in and be part of the squad, not the leader. If he is catching 700-800 yds of passes that would be great. It would take a lot of heat off of our other guys, who are All-Pro's, and be a solid rookie contribution.
EE however, even more than BM because of his speed is the physical mismatch which may be the key to the play called at the line.
Where the ball ends up is affected but not determined by this. The greatest beneficiary of the conumdrum that Giants pose to other teams is apt to be BM. He is likely to be singled against a player the physical equivalent of Trevin Wade.
what everybody did last year with 2 deep safety look until we do something to bring them out of it. And that's either run more effectively or send an athletic TE into seem.
Not confident how much the run blocking will improve so McAdoo damn well better take this new TE out for a ride early in games....
RE: Yes but only if the O-line can sustain their blocks
If the o-line can't hold blocks long enough, teams will continue to smother OBJ and a pass-catching TE won't be a factor.
I think the addition of Brandon Marshall will be a strong factor in allowing OBJ to get open a whole lot more than he did last year and that alone will be enough to improve the running game as well......
it seemed most of the routes he ran were shallow crossing routes. I think even running these routes Engram has a chance to make big plays given his speed.
However, reports out of mini-camp said he was lining up all over, split wide, etc. If they get into a situation where he motions to one side alone and they have to cover him with a safety or LB it's going to be tough. I expect when Eli sees that coverage he's going to pounce on it regularly.
it seemed most of the routes he ran were shallow crossing routes. I think even running these routes Engram has a chance to make big plays given his speed.
However, reports out of mini-camp said he was lining up all over, split wide, etc. If they get into a situation where he motions to one side alone and they have to cover him with a safety or LB it's going to be tough. I expect when Eli sees that coverage he's going to pounce on it regularly.
Agreed. I've been saying all off-season that this year Eli and staff will take a page out of the New England playbook where they just hit the wide-open or most open guy, the mismatch on the field, and move the chains and wear you down.
Engram on a LB is a "throw it to me situation" for sure.
i think we keep looking at stats as the measurement
instead of looking at multiple offensive formations and the ability to confuse a defense with alignments.
Truth. The would be the complete opposite of last year. We are going to mix it up much more this year with 2 TE sets; 3 WR sets; possibly 1 TE and 1 FB (S. Smith); etc.
Engram helps us create mis-matches due to his skillset and speed.
how can you possibly game plan to contain Marshall, Shepard, Engram, and Beckham?
If Engram is legit, this passing game is impossible to match up with. Beckham and Engram alone will be nightmares.
And if the OL improves by a good margin, our skill players truly become a nightmare matchup for most any defense. I look forward to the wrinkles that should be added.
hope to get to Eli before the pass is thrown ... I really have no idea how else you game plan for that attack.
quick outs to Shepard, slants to Beckham, back shoulder fades to Marshall, Engram vs a slower LB or smaller DB ...
I can not wait to embarrass Dallas in primetime. they do not have the personnel to exploit the OL, even if it does suck.
Agreed on Dallas with their personnel. They will struggle on defense out of the gates. I see Eli hitting the wide open (uncovered) TE, RB and the open WR, TE, and keep moving the chains just like New England does. If you blitz Eli this year and its picked up he will torch you with these personnel.
From a statistical basis as a individual performer, likely no.
That being said, his numbers dont need to be exceptional, they just need to be enough to keep defenses honest. A few catches down the seam threatening slower LBs and safeties impacts the defense. If he just murders a LB and the defense switches packages, can the Giants run the ball more effectively? If the safety has to look at Engram more because he is blowing by coverage, does that take away attention from OBJ and Marshall?
His rookie year, he just needs to be good enough that the defenses will defend him better, having a trickle down effect on everyone else.
hope to get to Eli before the pass is thrown ... I really have no idea how else you game plan for that attack.
quick outs to Shepard, slants to Beckham, back shoulder fades to Marshall, Engram vs a slower LB or smaller DB ...
I can not wait to embarrass Dallas in primetime. they do not have the personnel to exploit the OL, even if it does suck.
Agreed on Dallas with their personnel. They will struggle on defense out of the gates. I see Eli hitting the wide open (uncovered) TE, RB and the open WR, TE, and keep moving the chains just like New England does. If you blitz Eli this year and its picked up he will torch you with these personnel.
not included: swing pass to Vereen ... this season can't start soon enough
will be able to match up with our receivers and that we will be unstoppable but the other teams always do find a way to stop us, we seem to say the same things every year......
will be able to match up with our receivers and that we will be unstoppable but the other teams always do find a way to stop us, we seem to say the same things every year......
yeah ... all those seasons this team had 1 of the best players in the entire league paired with a 6'5 monster redzone target and a 2nd year slot receiver who put up 8 TDs as a rookie and a TE who is athletically superior to some of the best WRs in the game ...
will be able to match up with our receivers and that we will be unstoppable but the other teams always do find a way to stop us, we seem to say the same things every year......
That's simply not true.
Maybe last year many of us expected a lot more from Victor Cruz and a couple of our TEs, but it's not like it's said every offseason. Quite the contrary, I believe.
will be able to match up with our receivers and that we will be unstoppable but the other teams always do find a way to stop us, we seem to say the same things every year......
will be able to match up with our receivers and that we will be unstoppable but the other teams always do find a way to stop us, we seem to say the same things every year......
2016 was the only year I can think of where many prognosticators, including myself, over-valued the team's receiving corps.
While we had a great year with injuries overall, losing blocking FB/TE Johnson (neck burner); RB Vereen (triceps); and seeing not development from Tye or Donnell really hurt.
I've said all off-season had just Johnson an Vereen stayed healthy all year we'd have had much better success. But I guess every team can say that?
Engram has to demonstrate that he can get off the line of scrimmage
and lose defenders. This means, besting NFL linebackers and eluding NFL free safeties. If he can do both, he will have an impact. Otherwise, he will spend 2017 learning the NFL game.
RE: Engram has to demonstrate that he can get off the line of scrimmage
and lose defenders. This means, besting NFL linebackers and eluding NFL free safeties. If he can do both, he will have an impact. Otherwise, he will spend 2017 learning the NFL game.
Beating the inline JAM will be absolutely key in determining how good Evan Engram will (or won't) be for the Giants. Some guys are "so so" versus the JAM. But with Engram you can move him so he doesn't have as much of an issue at least.
We'll know more about that about half-way into camp I guess and certainly by the end of the first quarter of the season, just watching how the Giants use him.
He's a 230+ pound freak of nature who can outrun AJ Green and Deandre Hopkins while 1 of the best players in the league draws almost all of the defense's attention
I believe the NFL is going to be forced to learn how to deal with him, not the other way around.
He's a 230+ pound freak of nature who can outrun AJ Green and Deandre Hopkins while 1 of the best players in the league draws almost all of the defense's attention
I believe the NFL is going to be forced to learn how to deal with him, not the other way around.
I hope you are right. I believe that by the second half of the season he'll be quite special.
I see Evan Engram in motion; inline; even in the slot finding the mismatches that will be there. I for one am super glad we drafted this young man with big upside.
Some of these comments, if you didn't know anything of the pick
Yes. I expect he'll show that his refined game, speed, hands, and most importantly his mentality (smarts, dedication, and drive) will prove to be enough that he can be hot from out of the gate.
Hunter Henry was the consensus top TE last year. He joined a team with an All Pro TE already which limited his utility, and he ended up with 8 TDs and near 500 yards. That was on fewer targets than Will Tye got (who finished with 400 yards and 1 single TD). So, if we can imagine Engram as not only a better player (drafter higher by a team with a good track record in the first) but a player whose skillset was lauded mostly for his receiving skills, we may assume he'll have an even bigger season than Henry did last year (in 15 games with 10 starts).
I'm thinking and 50 catch 800 yard 8 TD year is within reach and not a stretch, especially with how game ready a lot of these receivers and TEs have been as of late.
He's a 230+ pound freak of nature who can outrun AJ Green and Deandre Hopkins while 1 of the best players in the league draws almost all of the defense's attention
I believe the NFL is going to be forced to learn how to deal with him, not the other way around.
That 2 deep shell coverage will be rendered obsolete with Engram's presence, and especially so if Perkins is the real deal on the ground.
He's a 230+ pound freak of nature who can outrun AJ Green and Deandre Hopkins while 1 of the best players in the league draws almost all of the defense's attention
I believe the NFL is going to be forced to learn how to deal with him, not the other way around.
That 2 deep shell coverage will be rendered obsolete with Engram's presence, and especially so if Perkins is the real deal on the ground.
The 2 deep shell worked to take away OBJ and leave the rest of our receiving corps single covered. We had limited formations we could line up in due to a lack of talent.
This year, we can go 3 WR; 2 WR; 1 WR and 3 TE; the list should be pretty long and diverse which is a huge bonus and will make it hard for teams to prepare for us. We just need the OL to develop. That is the big question mark, especially OT
here's a little refresher of this guy's freakish (unfair?) athleticism ...
jordan reed is considered a "matchup nightmare" Engram ... go deep - ( New Window )
4.42 at 234 pounds is outright sick speed. Engram and OBJ go "stride for stride" based on the stats. I can see this kid juking out many a LB or SS. If teams put a 3rd corner on him you also have the option to mix up a run as he can block (he's willing and able as the coaches stated) and such.
Imagine if he has an "OBJ rookie year" type impact for the season? 65-900-8 type numbers or something? Eli's mouth has to be watering with this type of vertical threat down the middle.
here's a little refresher of this guy's freakish (unfair?) athleticism ...
jordan reed is considered a "matchup nightmare" Engram ... go deep - ( New Window )
4.42 at 234 pounds is outright sick speed. Engram and OBJ go "stride for stride" based on the stats. I can see this kid juking out many a LB or SS. If teams put a 3rd corner on him you also have the option to mix up a run as he can block (he's willing and able as the coaches stated) and such.
Imagine if he has an "OBJ rookie year" type impact for the season? 65-900-8 type numbers or something? Eli's mouth has to be watering with this type of vertical threat down the middle.
with a 3-cone identical to aj green, better than mike Evans/sammy Watkins ... and more short area quickness than Julio Jones.
I'm so glad the "TE" label allowed him to drop ... I have no idea why those WRs went so much earlier than him.
here's a little refresher of this guy's freakish (unfair?) athleticism ...
jordan reed is considered a "matchup nightmare" Engram ... go deep - ( New Window )
4.42 at 234 pounds is outright sick speed. Engram and OBJ go "stride for stride" based on the stats. I can see this kid juking out many a LB or SS. If teams put a 3rd corner on him you also have the option to mix up a run as he can block (he's willing and able as the coaches stated) and such.
Imagine if he has an "OBJ rookie year" type impact for the season? 65-900-8 type numbers or something? Eli's mouth has to be watering with this type of vertical threat down the middle.
with a 3-cone identical to aj green, better than mike Evans/sammy Watkins ... and more short area quickness than Julio Jones.
I'm so glad the "TE" label allowed him to drop ... I have no idea why those WRs went so much earlier than him.
F R E A K - ( New Window )
August 11 and the first pre-season game can't come fast enough. I'll be focusing on the first team OL; Engram and D. Tomlinson the most. Engram is a physical beast.
his biggest impact will be moving the chains ala Witten
Apple, Flowers, Odell, Pugh, Amukamara, JPP, Nicks. Those are all Reese first rounders who contributed in year one. That is a good track record over the years indicating they know what they are doing in round 1.
It's up to Engram ultimately. But I trust the staffs judgement.
Quote:
Be ready to make plays in the postseason... a la Steve Smith
Yeah, but let's hope he doesn't miss eleven games due to an injury in his rookie year, like Smith did.
Preach
This is a home run...
If the OL doesn't fall apart this team will compete for the Super Bowl this year. I'm really excited about this team.
If the OL doesn't fall apart this team will compete for the Super Bowl this year. I'm really excited about this team.
Evan Engram seems polished. I had him at 45-600 but I'm going with 50-650-6 now as this thread has my blood going. LOL.
[quote] would be a huge impact if he shows that he can play right out of the gate and doesn't have any Larry Donnell or Will Tye type moments of idiocy. Just being a good player at the position would be an impact. Forget putting a yardage quota on it. [/quote All Engram needs to do is scare defenses, keep safeties honest, just fly down the middle and open things up for the run game and wideouts.
But my hope is that by the last few games he is deadly and carries us into the playoffs.
This is an important point. The Engram pick on some level had to be a counter strategy to how defenses neutralized them last year. If the WRs are making impact plays and the offense is scoring more points, I'll consider that a win even if Engram doesn't have the stats.
If McAdoo allows it, I could see the Giants offense morphing into an option based offense with the play selected by Eli at the line depending on who is covering EE. It may be a LB, S, or CB. As a defender, each has a physical disability when trying to cover and/or tackle him that can and should be exploited.
I am not belittling OBJ here. I assume he will be covered most of the time by at least a CB with deep S help.
Where the ball ends up is affected but not determined by this. The greatest beneficiary of the conumdrum that Giants pose to other teams is apt to be BM. He is likely to be singled against a player the physical equivalent of Trevin Wade.
Sheppard had 65/683/8
Tye had 48/395/1
If Engram has ~55 catches and 450 yards with a handful of TDs I would call that impactful for a rookie.
He he closes in on 90% of Sheps's stats from last year, watch out.
That will draw Safety attention to keep an eye on him. And then we fire off a few to OBJ when they dare to single him up.
Easy...
Not confident how much the run blocking will improve so McAdoo damn well better take this new TE out for a ride early in games....
I think the addition of Brandon Marshall will be a strong factor in allowing OBJ to get open a whole lot more than he did last year and that alone will be enough to improve the running game as well......
However, reports out of mini-camp said he was lining up all over, split wide, etc. If they get into a situation where he motions to one side alone and they have to cover him with a safety or LB it's going to be tough. I expect when Eli sees that coverage he's going to pounce on it regularly.
However, reports out of mini-camp said he was lining up all over, split wide, etc. If they get into a situation where he motions to one side alone and they have to cover him with a safety or LB it's going to be tough. I expect when Eli sees that coverage he's going to pounce on it regularly.
Engram on a LB is a "throw it to me situation" for sure.
Engram helps us create mis-matches due to his skillset and speed.
If Engram is legit, this passing game is impossible to match up with. Beckham and Engram alone will be nightmares.
If Engram is legit, this passing game is impossible to match up with. Beckham and Engram alone will be nightmares.
quick outs to Shepard, slants to Beckham, back shoulder fades to Marshall, Engram vs a slower LB or smaller DB ...
I can not wait to embarrass Dallas in primetime. they do not have the personnel to exploit the OL, even if it does suck.
quick outs to Shepard, slants to Beckham, back shoulder fades to Marshall, Engram vs a slower LB or smaller DB ...
I can not wait to embarrass Dallas in primetime. they do not have the personnel to exploit the OL, even if it does suck.
His rookie year, he just needs to be good enough that the defenses will defend him better, having a trickle down effect on everyone else.
Quote:
hope to get to Eli before the pass is thrown ... I really have no idea how else you game plan for that attack.
quick outs to Shepard, slants to Beckham, back shoulder fades to Marshall, Engram vs a slower LB or smaller DB ...
I can not wait to embarrass Dallas in primetime. they do not have the personnel to exploit the OL, even if it does suck.
Agreed on Dallas with their personnel. They will struggle on defense out of the gates. I see Eli hitting the wide open (uncovered) TE, RB and the open WR, TE, and keep moving the chains just like New England does. If you blitz Eli this year and its picked up he will torch you with these personnel.
not included: swing pass to Vereen ... this season can't start soon enough
yeah ... all those seasons this team had 1 of the best players in the entire league paired with a 6'5 monster redzone target and a 2nd year slot receiver who put up 8 TDs as a rookie and a TE who is athletically superior to some of the best WRs in the game ...
That's simply not true.
Maybe last year many of us expected a lot more from Victor Cruz and a couple of our TEs, but it's not like it's said every offseason. Quite the contrary, I believe.
just pacing ourselves really...
While we had a great year with injuries overall, losing blocking FB/TE Johnson (neck burner); RB Vereen (triceps); and seeing not development from Tye or Donnell really hurt.
I've said all off-season had just Johnson an Vereen stayed healthy all year we'd have had much better success. But I guess every team can say that?
We'll know more about that about half-way into camp I guess and certainly by the end of the first quarter of the season, just watching how the Giants use him.
Are you crazy? The league would never allow it!
I believe the NFL is going to be forced to learn how to deal with him, not the other way around.
I believe the NFL is going to be forced to learn how to deal with him, not the other way around.
I see Evan Engram in motion; inline; even in the slot finding the mismatches that will be there. I for one am super glad we drafted this young man with big upside.
only ours is faster, isn't a known gang member, and has Odell Beckham Jr. occupying defenses.
I can't f'ing wait for the Dallas game.
Hunter Henry was the consensus top TE last year. He joined a team with an All Pro TE already which limited his utility, and he ended up with 8 TDs and near 500 yards. That was on fewer targets than Will Tye got (who finished with 400 yards and 1 single TD). So, if we can imagine Engram as not only a better player (drafter higher by a team with a good track record in the first) but a player whose skillset was lauded mostly for his receiving skills, we may assume he'll have an even bigger season than Henry did last year (in 15 games with 10 starts).
I'm thinking and 50 catch 800 yard 8 TD year is within reach and not a stretch, especially with how game ready a lot of these receivers and TEs have been as of late.
I believe the NFL is going to be forced to learn how to deal with him, not the other way around.
That 2 deep shell coverage will be rendered obsolete with Engram's presence, and especially so if Perkins is the real deal on the ground.
Quote:
He's a 230+ pound freak of nature who can outrun AJ Green and Deandre Hopkins while 1 of the best players in the league draws almost all of the defense's attention
I believe the NFL is going to be forced to learn how to deal with him, not the other way around.
That 2 deep shell coverage will be rendered obsolete with Engram's presence, and especially so if Perkins is the real deal on the ground.
This year, we can go 3 WR; 2 WR; 1 WR and 3 TE; the list should be pretty long and diverse which is a huge bonus and will make it hard for teams to prepare for us. We just need the OL to develop. That is the big question mark, especially OT
jordan reed is considered a "matchup nightmare"
Engram ... go deep - ( New Window )
jordan reed is considered a "matchup nightmare" Engram ... go deep - ( New Window )
Imagine if he has an "OBJ rookie year" type impact for the season? 65-900-8 type numbers or something? Eli's mouth has to be watering with this type of vertical threat down the middle.
Quote:
here's a little refresher of this guy's freakish (unfair?) athleticism ...
jordan reed is considered a "matchup nightmare" Engram ... go deep - ( New Window )
4.42 at 234 pounds is outright sick speed. Engram and OBJ go "stride for stride" based on the stats. I can see this kid juking out many a LB or SS. If teams put a 3rd corner on him you also have the option to mix up a run as he can block (he's willing and able as the coaches stated) and such.
Imagine if he has an "OBJ rookie year" type impact for the season? 65-900-8 type numbers or something? Eli's mouth has to be watering with this type of vertical threat down the middle.
with a 3-cone identical to aj green, better than mike Evans/sammy Watkins ... and more short area quickness than Julio Jones.
I'm so glad the "TE" label allowed him to drop ... I have no idea why those WRs went so much earlier than him.
F R E A K - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 13524316 annexOPR said:
Quote:
here's a little refresher of this guy's freakish (unfair?) athleticism ...
jordan reed is considered a "matchup nightmare" Engram ... go deep - ( New Window )
4.42 at 234 pounds is outright sick speed. Engram and OBJ go "stride for stride" based on the stats. I can see this kid juking out many a LB or SS. If teams put a 3rd corner on him you also have the option to mix up a run as he can block (he's willing and able as the coaches stated) and such.
Imagine if he has an "OBJ rookie year" type impact for the season? 65-900-8 type numbers or something? Eli's mouth has to be watering with this type of vertical threat down the middle.
with a 3-cone identical to aj green, better than mike Evans/sammy Watkins ... and more short area quickness than Julio Jones.
I'm so glad the "TE" label allowed him to drop ... I have no idea why those WRs went so much earlier than him.
F R E A K - ( New Window )