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Kick Returner...

Dan in the Springs : 7/6/2017 4:18 pm
Okay, it's a really slow time of year for NFL fans, so why not pick something different to discuss.

We all know that Dwayne Harris is fearless on special teams and he had a tremendous 2015 season for us. Last year was not as good, especially on returns. As the season wore on he was replaced at KOR by Bobby Rainey. With Rainey gone, who do you want to see returning kicks on opening night?

1. Harris - he played injured last year and he'll be improved this year as he's healthy again. Can't afford to take risks so give it to the vet, at least at the beginning.

2. _______ (fill in the blank).

Watcha got BBI?

My pick? I'll take Kevin Snead. Why? I don't want anyone critical getting hurt, mostly. Snead is a long shot to make the team, but he has tremendous speed (fastest man in college football) and has some experience returning kicks. I know it is very unlikely, but I'm going to say that he gets a chance to return some kicks in pre-season and flashes doing so.

I admit my choice isn't the best, so let's hear who you want BBI...
Right now it is WR D. Harris returning kicks and punts  
SGMen : 7/6/2017 4:23 pm : link
I don't think Snead makes the final 53, I think D. Powe has the 6th WR spot.

As good as he is, I don't want to risk OBJ as a punt returner except for fourth quarters when guys are maybe tired and he could spring one?
RE: Right now it is WR D. Harris returning kicks and punts  
Dan in the Springs : 7/6/2017 4:40 pm : link
In comment 13521373 SGMen said:
Quote:
I don't think Snead makes the final 53, I think D. Powe has the 6th WR spot.

As good as he is, I don't want to risk OBJ as a punt returner except for fourth quarters when guys are maybe tired and he could spring one?


Yeah - hoping Harris can return to good form on returns, especially KOR. I think of OBJ as a good weapon if we were behind in a close, critical game where both teams were having difficulty moving the ball. Other than that, keep him happy/healthy on the sideline.

I don't think Snead makes it either. I want a speedster back there though, someone who has the ability to really break away and also some experience returning kicks.
Harris.....  
Doomster : 7/6/2017 4:41 pm : link
I think many have forgotten the flubs Rainey had backer there.

As I said before, Harris took a pay cut, and is hungry this year.....I think he made a few bad decisions, because he wanted to get field position for a faltering offense.....

He was a forgotten man last season as a WR, despite the fact we were trotting guys like Cruz, Lewis and King out there....

I look for him to have a big season for us.....
Hmmm...  
Dan in the Springs : 7/6/2017 4:42 pm : link
just checked the stats and even though Harris took a step back in 2016 he was still top 10 in the league. I'm surprised and encouraged by that.

Still hoping we see a return to 2015 form.
Lost Art?  
Samiam : 7/6/2017 5:46 pm : link
Are there statistics on % kickoffs that are returned vs touchbacks? The league is clearly going in the direction of no returns. I think punt returns are more important in the ST game now and maybe the focus should be on that part of the game.
Harris  
annexOPR : 7/6/2017 6:10 pm : link
as it should be
RE: Lost Art?  
Bchurch : 7/6/2017 6:30 pm : link
In comment 13521465 Samiam said:
Quote:
Are there statistics on % kickoffs that are returned vs touchbacks? The league is clearly going in the direction of no returns. I think punt returns are more important in the ST game now and maybe the focus should be on that part of the game.


Boom... this is exactly what I was going to say.
RE: Lost Art?  
Mad Mike : 7/6/2017 8:07 pm : link
In comment 13521465 Samiam said:
Quote:
Are there statistics on % kickoffs that are returned vs touchbacks? The league is clearly going in the direction of no returns. I think punt returns are more important in the ST game now and maybe the focus should be on that part of the game.

This site shows it by team (as kicking team). You can see that last year it varied a lot, but 3/4 of the league were over 50% touchbacks, and quite a few were over 60% or even 70%.

In 2010, before they moved the kickoff up, one team was at 46%, everyone else was 30% or below.
teamrankings - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Lost Art?  
SGMen : 7/6/2017 8:19 pm : link
In comment 13521563 Mad Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 13521465 Samiam said:


Quote:


Are there statistics on % kickoffs that are returned vs touchbacks? The league is clearly going in the direction of no returns. I think punt returns are more important in the ST game now and maybe the focus should be on that part of the game.


This site shows it by team (as kicking team). You can see that last year it varied a lot, but 3/4 of the league were over 50% touchbacks, and quite a few were over 60% or even 70%.

In 2010, before they moved the kickoff up, one team was at 46%, everyone else was 30% or below. teamrankings - ( New Window )
KOR lead to injuries hence the league's desire to change things and put the ball on the 25. Make sense, I have no problem with the rule.
This might be his last season with the Giants  
giantgiantfan : 7/6/2017 9:09 pm : link
he'll turn 30 around week 2 of the season, he'll need a good season to stick around another. I don't think motivation or skill was his problem last year though, it was injuries. It's his job and if he returns to form he should deliver us at least 1 win on specials like he did his first year with us when he turned a KR into a TD against Dallas.

If not him then you have maybe Shep or an unknown guy who will emerge in pre season. McAdoo is not opposed to throwing Odell back there either in crucial spots.
I'd love to see OBJ return punts  
gtt350 : 7/6/2017 9:31 pm : link
he's deadly if we could stop blocking in the back
RE: I'd love to see OBJ return punts  
SGMen : 7/6/2017 9:45 pm : link
In comment 13521611 gtt350 said:
Quote:
he's deadly if we could stop blocking in the back
My only issue with letting OBJ return punts full-time is the possibility of injury. Punt returns can be brutal as guys are hauling ass all out.

I'm all for using OBJ in the fourth quarter when guys are tired and may be more likely to miss OBJ.

And yeah, the blocks in the back were killer.
I'm gonna be somewhat unconventional here  
BlackburnBalledOut : 7/7/2017 12:25 am : link
and go with one of the backup running backs. Darkwa or Gallman. Why not have a running back, who is trained to carry/ protect the football and read blocks, try their hand at returns.

Just a FYI  
adamg : 7/7/2017 1:16 am : link
Schmeelk and Pauly Dots were saying that Travis Rudolph returned kicks more often than any other player in OTAs. Rudolph is also P Dots darkhorse to make the 53.
RE: Just a FYI  
SGMen : 7/7/2017 3:58 am : link
In comment 13521805 adamg said:
Quote:
Schmeelk and Pauly Dots were saying that Travis Rudolph returned kicks more often than any other player in OTAs. Rudolph is also P Dots darkhorse to make the 53.
I forgot that about Rudolph. Does he return kicks an punts or just kicks? He could be the 6th WR if he is that talented.
RE: I'd love to see OBJ return punts  
I Love Clams Casino : 7/7/2017 10:59 am : link
In comment 13521611 gtt350 said:
Quote:
he's deadly if we could stop blocking in the back


Yes, 2 TD's called back I think?

I'd say a good 50% of TD kick returns are called back because of clipping...it's hard to block and not clip and full speed
Harris  
HoustonGiant : 7/7/2017 12:06 pm : link
for nothing else, crushing the Cowboys' souls in 2015 has made it his position.
Harris really sucked last season with returns and  
Jimmy Googs : 7/7/2017 1:42 pm : link
made it even worse when he started pressing trying to make something happen.

He was solid on coverage though I recall.

Give him one more year at the job, sprinkle in OBJ and backup RB here and there. Harris is not a keeper much longer.

RE: Harris really sucked last season with returns and  
Johnny5 : 7/7/2017 3:27 pm : link
In comment 13522322 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
made it even worse when he started pressing trying to make something happen.

He was solid on coverage though I recall.

Give him one more year at the job, sprinkle in OBJ and backup RB here and there. Harris is not a keeper much longer.

I agree, just posted in Eric's WR review thread I think he is on the bubble. He ended up being a liability on returns. I'm sure it depends 100% on what if anything any of the other WRs show on Specials.
RE: Harris really sucked last season with returns and  
Dan in the Springs : 7/7/2017 4:22 pm : link
In comment 13522322 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
made it even worse when he started pressing trying to make something happen.

He was solid on coverage though I recall.

Give him one more year at the job, sprinkle in OBJ and backup RB here and there. Harris is not a keeper much longer.


See, I started this thread because that was my recollection as well. I was not sure what value Harris provided. I was watching all of last year's games (in reverse order), noticing that at the end he wasn't returning kicks at all, and when he was he was struggling to get it out to the 20 when he should have been downing it in the endzone.

Then I looked up the averages in 2016 for all KR in the league and saw that even with his measly <25 avg he was still #10 overall in the league. He definitely took a step backward and there's a chance an injury was affecting him, but he still ended up a decent returner overall. Must have had some good returns early on that I don't remember. I'll be finishing the season over the next few days and will see.
RE: RE: Harris really sucked last season with returns and  
SGMen : 7/7/2017 5:50 pm : link
In comment 13522507 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
In comment 13522322 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


made it even worse when he started pressing trying to make something happen.

He was solid on coverage though I recall.

Give him one more year at the job, sprinkle in OBJ and backup RB here and there. Harris is not a keeper much longer.




See, I started this thread because that was my recollection as well. I was not sure what value Harris provided. I was watching all of last year's games (in reverse order), noticing that at the end he wasn't returning kicks at all, and when he was he was struggling to get it out to the 20 when he should have been downing it in the endzone.

Then I looked up the averages in 2016 for all KR in the league and saw that even with his measly <25 avg he was still #10 overall in the league. He definitely took a step backward and there's a chance an injury was affecting him, but he still ended up a decent returner overall. Must have had some good returns early on that I don't remember. I'll be finishing the season over the next few days and will see.
D. Harris played hurt last year. If healthy, I think he gets first nod for KR, PR and ST ace. His ST abilities alone may keep him on the team.
Snead's speed  
ChicagoMarty : 7/7/2017 7:02 pm : link
could be a difference maker.

If Snead makes the team he would almost have to make it over Harris and I really don't have a problem with that.

The number of KRs are definitely down which is really Harris's forte

Harris does not provide much in his sub wr role

Why not put Snead out there on the edge to run go routes and really pressure the opposing D and possibly stretch the D and open up some intermediate routes for Marshall, Engram, Shep and Beck?

Harris won't stretch any D.

I know Snead barely has any experience but you can't teach speed. Running a few Go routes and some basic other routes from the tree can provide a real complement to our other weapons.

Return a few kicks and provide some real speed at gunner on cover teams might buy Snead some time to learn his trade and become more of a whole player.

If you are selling Snead, I'm buying. What do we really have to lose in replacing Harris with Snead?
RE: Snead's speed  
SGMen : 7/7/2017 7:17 pm : link
In comment 13522668 ChicagoMarty said:
Quote:
could be a difference maker.

If Snead makes the team he would almost have to make it over Harris and I really don't have a problem with that.

The number of KRs are definitely down which is really Harris's forte

Harris does not provide much in his sub wr role

Why not put Snead out there on the edge to run go routes and really pressure the opposing D and possibly stretch the D and open up some intermediate routes for Marshall, Engram, Shep and Beck?

Harris won't stretch any D.

I know Snead barely has any experience but you can't teach speed. Running a few Go routes and some basic other routes from the tree can provide a real complement to our other weapons.

Return a few kicks and provide some real speed at gunner on cover teams might buy Snead some time to learn his trade and become more of a whole player.

If you are selling Snead, I'm buying. What do we really have to lose in replacing Harris with Snead?
To answer your question, if we cut Harris for Snead we lose our special teams ace. That is how I come out. Harris played hurt last year and I suspect he'll rebound this year. Now, could Snead be the 6th receiver? Possibly...
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