Also said Lee has heard he'll be moved if Hardaway goes through unless Melo deal happens. Thoughts on keeping Lee if Melo is flipped? Yes to Melo to HOU - ( New Window )
The other thread was about THJ. This is about the Melo trade. Just because a few people are posting on the other thread doesn't mean it is as noticeable as this thread. This is new news so I am glad there is a new thread.
basically breaks even salary wise, adds a young piece and gets the 2nd best player in the trade. Im sure the Rockets would add a pick and money as well.
He is broken down and might not play real minutes again.
Its wishful thinking for anyone to take that contract.
That would be a deal breaker
If he retires does his contract remain against the cap?
The Knicks would need to buy him out or they could get a medical but I don't think he would fail a physical.
Basically that deal will haunt this team for the next 4 years.
He is broken down and might not play real minutes again.
Its wishful thinking for anyone to take that contract.
That would be a deal breaker
If he retires does his contract remain against the cap?
The Knicks would need to buy him out or they could get a medical but I don't think he would fail a physical.
Basically that deal will haunt this team for the next 4 years.
Thankfully, larry, it will only haunt them for 3 more years. But I'm guessing he'll be bought out after this season if they can't unload him (fat chance of that, of course).
Mills would guide the team through free agency. If he does a good job here then he should be considered for the job on a permanent basis. Forming a young core to grow together is Absolutely the way to go.
signing. Its an overpay, but he is 25 and has improved consistently. Maybe we finally get lucky and overpay a young up and comer who actually continues to get better. I liked THJR when he was here, i mean i was thrilled to get a first for him, but he has improved. I just hope he can be more then just a scorer.
Really hope this Melo trade gets done soon. I know we wont get much back, but at least we hopefully get Qi and something else. It just increases our assets. Let a young team develop, get another top pick, and hope that KP becomes the star we thing we can be.
And i really hope we move Lee, he does nothing for this team. Lets roll with THJR/Dotson. Get another asset for Lee and let the kids play. Noah can still be the vet leader.
for the bockers... Good for both sides IMO - ( New Window )
How exactly is that good for the Knicks? Gordon plays the same position as THjr, Anderson the same position as KP, Capela the same position as Willy. So you're just adding redundant depth for a cap savings of $8M while taking on longer contracts and giving up the best contract in the deal with KOQ.
Where is this notion that THJ has improved consistently come from?
for the bockers... Good for both sides IMO - ( New Window )
How exactly is that good for the Knicks? Gordon plays the same position as THjr, Anderson the same position as KP, Capela the same position as Willy. So you're just adding redundant depth for a cap savings of $8M while taking on longer contracts and giving up the best contract in the deal with KOQ.
Dunk please take the Knicks' GM job. It's obvious you know what you're doing . I think the Hardaway signing was insane . Melo will soon be gone. Then it will be time for Nixon's Checkers speech because the Knicks and their fans won't have him to kick around anymore more. Life after Melo should prove interesting . As in life without a #1 scorer . The Knicks are shaping up to be a Top 3 worst team for the coming season . Maybe that's the plan but I suspect they will truly blow .
I think we need to be getting picks back too. Yes, we have our firsts which is nice but we gave away a shit load of seconds. It would be nice to recoup some of those or a late first.
I was just talking to someone with knowledge of the trade. He said it's definitely going to happen. He also said it's probably not going to include Qi as Houston considers him untouchable. Hopefully that's not true.
I definitely wouldn't mind Llull though. He won Euroleague MVP this past year. He averaged 16 points, 6 assists and 2 rebounds in 26 minutes with Real Madrid this yes. He plays for my 2nd favorite team right now so I'd really love for him to join my favorite basketball team.
Yeah I don't know the exact players. The guy I talked to said he's hearing what the players will be, but doesn't want to be wrong and look like a jackass. He did say it will be a pretty disappointing package for the Knicks.
Lee is an average player. Okafor at least has potential to be an elite scoring big man. If you could get him motivated to reach his full potential he could be a very nice fit next to KP. Provided KP develops into the defender I think he can be.
Lee is an average player. Okafor at least has potential to be an elite scoring big man. If you could get him motivated to reach his full potential he could be a very nice fit next to KP. Provided KP develops into the defender I think he can be.
You already have a guy who has similar skills next to KP but is a far far better rebounder(and similar defensive limitations).
Woj :Knicks, David Griffin moving toward contract talks for.GM
"After several conversations and a dinner meeting with franchise executive Steve Mills on Friday, the New York Knicks are progressing toward opening contract negotiations with David Griffin to become the team's next general manager, league sources told ESPN.
Griffin, the ex-Cleveland Cavaliers GM, traveled to New York this weekend to meet with Mills, with whom Griffin has continued to discuss the shaping of a potential Knicks partnership.
Griffin is also expected to meet with owner James Dolan in the near future, league sources said."
I wish we'd have gotten Jerry West as our consultant, though. I'd have loved to have him involved with the Knicks...he actually always knows what he's doing.
I wish we'd have gotten Jerry West as our consultant, though. I'd have loved to have him involved with the Knicks...he actually always knows what he's doing.
It is like Doug Marrone taking over for Gus Bradley when he was fired and then having Marrone interview other candidates. I am sure I am probably blinded by my frustration with this team but that doesn't sound weird?
I wish we'd have gotten Jerry West as our consultant, though. I'd have loved to have him involved with the Knicks...he actually always knows what he's doing.
It is like Doug Marrone taking over for Gus Bradley when he was fired and then having Marrone interview other candidates. I am sure I am probably blinded by my frustration with this team but that doesn't sound weird?
Unless Mills knows he's pretty much a lock to be president and hiring underneath him (gm only).
Therefore that is why it was comical to me that Dolan hasn't met Griffin yet. Now, what is even more worrisome is Mills is basically President and he is hiring a GM under him. That doesn't really change much of anything to me. This is why they continue to be the worst run organization in sports imo.
I just want to get this straight. People are concerned that nobody would be hired and this would be on Mills. Most felt someone other than Mills should have been making the decision on any basketball decisions. So, if true, and Mills is now the new team president people are okay with that if Griffin is brought in as the GM, a position that concedes to the President?
Either way, I don't like how this is being run. Imo, either the owner hires the President and is instrumental in that process with the help of the consultant or Mills is the President. I just disagree with the way either situation would turn out.
RE: It sounds weird to me if Mills was basically hiring his boss.
Therefore that is why it was comical to me that Dolan hasn't met Griffin yet. Now, what is even more worrisome is Mills is basically President and he is hiring a GM under him. That doesn't really change much of anything to me. This is why they continue to be the worst run organization in sports imo.
I just want to get this straight. People are concerned that nobody would be hired and this would be on Mills. Most felt someone other than Mills should have been making the decision on any basketball decisions. So, if true, and Mills is now the new team president people are okay with that if Griffin is brought in as the GM, a position that concedes to the President?
Either way, I don't like how this is being run. Imo, either the owner hires the President and is instrumental in that process with the help of the consultant or Mills is the President. I just disagree with the way either situation would turn out.
I agree w/you but it seems the alternative would be Mills as Pres/GM. At least w/Griffin as GM, there would be a voice w/NBA GM experience to counterbalance Mills. Whether Mills lets Griffin actually do his job when Mills disagrees is still to be seen!
RE: It sounds weird to me if Mills was basically hiring his boss.
Therefore that is why it was comical to me that Dolan hasn't met Griffin yet. Now, what is even more worrisome is Mills is basically President and he is hiring a GM under him. That doesn't really change much of anything to me. This is why they continue to be the worst run organization in sports imo.
I just want to get this straight. People are concerned that nobody would be hired and this would be on Mills. Most felt someone other than Mills should have been making the decision on any basketball decisions. So, if true, and Mills is now the new team president people are okay with that if Griffin is brought in as the GM, a position that concedes to the President?
Either way, I don't like how this is being run. Imo, either the owner hires the President and is instrumental in that process with the help of the consultant or Mills is the President. I just disagree with the way either situation would turn out.
It really depends on whether or not they give the GM power over personal decisions. If Mills deals more with organizational and contract matters and leaves the GM alone it could work fine, but that is the big if.
It's hard to liken this to the Giants, but the role of a team president isn't to make roster moves. It's to hire the person that does.
That would be nice and makes sense if it was any team other than the Knicks. The thing that is truly worrisome is in basketball more than any other sport is that one wrong move can set you back like 4+ years. Take the Noah contract for example. That is something that is near impossible to move and the only true way to fix it is just to let it expire. That is what I worry about with THJ. People keep looking at the brightside. I get it. But with any investment you have to look at the good and the bad. What is the downside? The downside is that he doesn't live up to the contract and the 15% trade kicker makes it near impossible to trade. So, when making a bet it is alwags wiser to play the field. There are many more things that could go wrong with that deal than the positive part that some are focusing on.
People also focus on the youth aspect. That is nice but just reading people say we are young so it is great. To me that is like saying that I have a car that rides smooth. That is nice but if it keeps breaking down, or the gas mileage is like 10 miles to the gallon, or it is leaking oil, etc. then it doesn't make much sense. Yes, a youth movement is nice. There is nothing wrong with it. All I am saying is that being young is just one of many factors that should be analyzed.
And when I say one bad move can set you back 4+ years
I am saying having Mills or Dolan step in at any point like Dolan did with the Melo deal. Now, Dolan does seem more hands off now which is a good thing (I still don't agree with how this hiring process is being run though) with the day to day operations. But, with Mills being in a higher position he would get final say over Griffin which 100% concerns me.
RE: If Griffin can't bring in his own guys this is likely doomed
Yup. The first warning sign of the Jackson regime was the continued presence of Mills and Houston. If those two stick around, so be it, but we need some fresh blood, too.
RE: RE: If Griffin can't bring in his own guys this is likely doomed
Yup. The first warning sign of the Jackson regime was the continued presence of Mills and Houston. If those two stick around, so be it, but we need some fresh blood, too.
woj made it sound like griffin wont take the job unless he can bring in his own guys...
also if the structure is business mills and all basketball is griffin that is fine...
a lot of teams operate that way
But if Mills is the business side of things as president
That brings us right back to why the hell is he making personnel moves to cap us out before he has hired a GM? Dolan's call obviously. He didn't want to miss out on a free agent splash just because of the inconvenience of not having a real GM in place.
Griffin is also expected to meet with owner James Dolan in the near future, league sources said."
I can imagine how that meeting will go.
Griffin:"It's an honor to meet you Mr. Dol.."
Dolan"Do you like great music?"
Griffin:"Um yeah I guess so but I don't see what this has to do wi.."
Dolan "Have you ever seen my band perform?":
Griffin " No sir I have not."
Dolan: "This interview is over! Get out of my office!"
Even if he gets the job, he's going to be saddled with Alan Houston, Steve Mills and the rest of the garden cronies. If they give him the job with full power on everything basketball- that's great news. Anything less is same old Knicks and same old results.
1. Everything I've read suggests he wants to bring "some" of his own guys. Knowing the Knicks that will mean 1-2 guys added to the guys they already have. I'd be blown away if Houston and Mills are gone. I think you see 1-2 guys added to what is already an over crowded FO situation.
2. I'd be pretty shocked if they dumped Hornacek but presumably the leash isn't going to be that long. Tough spot for Hornacek.
Qi or hartenstein why are we making the move? For the right to pay Harkless or Leonard or whatever a bunch of money over the next few seasons. There has to be something enticing in the deal otherwise we might as well go back to considering a buyout or letting him play for this year and hope he opts out. Id rather buy him out then trade him for harkless. Id hold strong on Qi and hartenstein. Tell HOU we will buy him out otherwise and then they miss out cause he will go to CLE.
is NBA ready or close to it. Hartenstein has some back concerns/makeup concerns but I need AT least one for this to be a decent deal. Both are talented.
if HOU doesnt want to deal him then we dont trade them Melo. Im not expecting a good deal, but again if we arent getting at least some sort of prospect then why do we make the deal. It would be one thing if we are dumping the salary, but we will need to take back a pretty similar amount (and most likely longer deals) so we arent even getting capspace. So we are trading Melo for longer contracts on crappier players just so we can hope we suck more and get a better pick.
Same, I liked him a lot and thought he would make a nice fit here. I am excited about Frank as well and think he can be a good player. Only time will tell
My only hope for the Knicks to not get suckered on this potential deal is that Griffin had to be very clear with management to not make any trades (including the biggest of all, Melo) until he has signed. I have to believe Griffin wants to be the one negotiating with Houston et al.
Knicks executive leadership is incredibly inept but hopefully they're waiting to find their GM before trading Melo
Then at least we'll have a professional trying to squeeze as much out of Melo as he can or otherwise sitting on him until the trade deadline mid season
to make any deals. What if he doesnt sign. Then you could quite easily miss opportunities..
Yeah, I'd hate to miss more opportunities to do deals like $71M for a pretty ordinary player. Can't miss things like that.
This team always does thing ass backwards. Fires Jackson AFTER he drafts, signs THJR w/o a real GM in place...and those are only our latest examples of 20 years of ineptitude.
RE: RE: The Knicks arent going to wait until he signs
to make any deals. What if he doesnt sign. Then you could quite easily miss opportunities..
Yeah, I'd hate to miss more opportunities to do deals like $71M for a pretty ordinary player. Can't miss things like that.
This team always does thing ass backwards. Fires Jackson AFTER he drafts, signs THJR w/o a real GM in place...and those are only our latest examples of 20 years of ineptitude.
im only stating the facts.. and the reality is that in this NBA landscape. thats what an ordinary player can get..
See. We're fucked. They won't unload some of the dead weight or give him the power he needs to be effective, I'm guessing. What a shit show. You'd figure that even Dolan could recognize something that hasn't worked for two decades and let someone really run the organization.
blueblood, it's not you I'm frustrated with; it's the completely dysfunctional organization we have.
There remains mutual interest between the Knicks and free agent point guard Rajon Rondo, per league sources. Both sides are in touch as the Knicks continue to search for a veteran point guard. Rondo is likely one of several guards they are considering. New York has less than $2 million in cap space and a $4.3 million exception to offer free agents at the moment. But the club may create cap space via trade; the Knicks remain interested in trading Carmelo Anthony. There isn't unanimous support in the organization for signing Rondo. But it's worth noting that young players in Sacramento and Chicago have raved about Rondo's mentorship and his ability to assist with player development. The Knicks are looking for a mentor to rookie Frank Ntilikina.
See. We're fucked. They won't unload some of the dead weight or give him the power he needs to be effective, I'm guessing. What a shit show. You'd figure that even Dolan could recognize something that hasn't worked for two decades and let someone really run the organization.
blueblood, it's not you I'm frustrated with; it's the completely dysfunctional organization we have.
I know..I just realize this franchise is inept and I KNEW they would never be able to attract someone like Griffin..
NO ONE is coming in here to rescue the Knicks.. as long as DOLAN has his fingerprints on this team.. its going NOWHERE
you diehard fans. Seriously. You guys give new meaning to diehard when it comes to the Knicks. It's never going to get better with Dolan as owner but you guys follow the team just the same. I have thrown in the towel
I fail to see how he's sure fire. He had Kyrie. Landed the top pic, and traded it for love. Who the cava seemingly want out. And who he would have shipped out. Traded for old washed up players. Frye Korver added demon Williams. And lucked into having a once in a lifetime player grow up in Cleveland and be willing to come back.
Look at some of the contracts he handed out as well
Dolan does something really awful soon where Silver forces him to sell like Donald Sterling. That's the Knicks only hope. Until he dies the Knicks are fucked
Sources told ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski that Griffin and the Knicks were at odds over Griffin not having full authority on basketball decisions and Griffin preferring to bring in his own staff.
RE: Good look or not. Why is everyone so sure griffin will be great
I fail to see how he's sure fire. He had Kyrie. Landed the top pic, and traded it for love. Who the cava seemingly want out. And who he would have shipped out. Traded for old washed up players. Frye Korver added demon Williams. And lucked into having a once in a lifetime player grow up in Cleveland and be willing to come back.
Look at some of the contracts he handed out as well
It's not about Griffin (for me) it's about balking at letting him replace Dolan's cronies.
that Dolan doesnt want to turn over the basketball reigns to an outsider.
Clearly the people who have been there for a while are awful at what they do. It should be a total house cleaning but wont be.
Shame on any of us who actually pay money to go see the Knicks. I did it last year to take my nephew to see Steph Curry, but never again. Until Dolan sells the team I am not going to a Knicks game at MSG.
The only reason Mills and Houston have jobs in an NBA front office is because James Dolan insists on keeping them around. God forbid we give authority on basketball decisions to an NBA title-winning GM who has the blessing of Jerry West. Nah, Dolan and his kiss-ass cronies got this...
stop showing up and stop paying ridiculous prices to see the Knicks, maybe thats the way to get Dolan out. It's absurd that a publicly traded company is allowed to be run like the Knicks are. But it continues because idiots (me included) have continued to spend money to see them. I'm not doing it ever again. Hopefully others follow suit but it wont happen. If that building was half empty every night he would be forced out
RE: RE: Good look or not. Why is everyone so sure griffin will be great
I fail to see how he's sure fire. He had Kyrie. Landed the top pic, and traded it for love. Who the cava seemingly want out. And who he would have shipped out. Traded for old washed up players. Frye Korver added demon Williams. And lucked into having a once in a lifetime player grow up in Cleveland and be willing to come back.
Look at some of the contracts he handed out as well
It's not about Griffin (for me) it's about balking at letting him replace Dolan's cronies.
That's fair. I'm more or less speaking to the people who I've heard been calling griffin a top 5 gm.
but if we're being honest, in all of professional sports the Knicks are without a doubt the worst organization with no hope for the future. The Browns have a better chance of winning a title in the next decade than the Knicks do.
Rondo, Lee, Hardaway, KP and Willy, with Hornacek and Rambis on the bench and Mills and Houston at the helm. What could possibly go wrong? And we'll win just enough to stay out of the top five.
Rondo, Lee, Hardaway, KP and Willy, with Hornacek and Rambis on the bench and Mills and Houston at the helm. What could possibly go wrong? And we'll win just enough to stay out of the top five.
it is sad knicks can get any gm or oresident they want but dolan needs his lackies in the front office...
they actually have young players to build around and could have a nice future
is ever coming here with Dolan as owner. It's to that point. And you can't blame them.
Kristaps could reach his full ability and it still wont matter because we're never going to be able to attract a top free agent with Dolan as owner
this i dont agree with, gilbert is one of the worst and most meddling owners in sports who wrote a letter killing lebron and kebron still came back...
players dont care about the owners they care about the players...
dolan owns the rangers dkes that stop players from coming? no because the rangers are good...
when the knicks had carmelo and stat, chandler took less to come, jason kidd took less to come...
if the players are here other players will come...
LeBron came back because he loved Cleveland and wanted to win a title for his hometown.
If he wasn't from Cleveland, he never even thinks about it.
And Dolan is a significantly worse owner than Gilbert.
Players don't come here. One did and he wasn't coming unless the Knicks traded for him because he wasnt waiting until free agency.
Years and years of striking out on free agents. Players don't want to come here because of Dolan. He has created an awful toxic environment around the Knicks that no players want any part of
is ever coming here with Dolan as owner. It's to that point. And you can't blame them.
Kristaps could reach his full ability and it still wont matter because we're never going to be able to attract a top free agent with Dolan as owner
this i dont agree with, gilbert is one of the worst and most meddling owners in sports who wrote a letter killing lebron and kebron still came back...
players dont care about the owners they care about the players...
dolan owns the rangers dkes that stop players from coming? no because the rangers are good...
when the knicks had carmelo and stat, chandler took less to come, jason kidd took less to come...
if the players are here other players will come...
LeBron came back because he loved Cleveland and wanted to win a title for his hometown.
If he wasn't from Cleveland, he never even thinks about it.
And Dolan is a significantly worse owner than Gilbert.
Players don't come here. One did and he wasn't coming unless the Knicks traded for him because he wasnt waiting until free agency.
Years and years of striking out on free agents. Players don't want to come here because of Dolan. He has created an awful toxic environment around the Knicks that no players want any part of
players because the team fucking sucks...
if the team didnt suck players would come it has nothing to do with dolan...
how do you explain the rangers being so good?
is dolan a fucking moron? absokutely but he took a step back for 3 years and still no one came, because the team still sucked...
is the Garden is filled with non-Knicks fans. Tourists, Wall Street dipshits, celebrities - Leslie Jones isn't watching YouTube videos of Ntilikina and Monk prior to the draft. She'll just go cheer the uniform and get herself on camera.
nets are probably one of the best run organizations right now
culture wise, how many big name free agents want to go there? no offense to nets fans but until they get a player to build around no player will go there...
RE: nets are probably one of the best run organizations right now
culture wise, how many big name free agents want to go there? no offense to nets fans but until they get a player to build around no player will go there...
this is in response to mook saying dolan is the reason free agents wont come...
need to mass boycott. It would actually work. Dolan would be removed if the stock tanked because the building was half empty for a couple years.
It's never going to happen, but because they are publicly traded a mass boycott would actually work.
I'm guessing that the Dolan family owns more than 50% of the stock, and if that's true he's not gonna get ousted. And Dolan doesn't give a shit about money lost, so a boycott will likely do nothing to change him. Like another famous man, he's so narcissistic that he couldn't care less what other people think or feel.
LeBron came back because he loved Cleveland and wanted to win a title for his hometown.
If he wasn't from Cleveland, he never even thinks about it.
And Dolan is a significantly worse owner than Gilbert.
Players don't come here. One did and he wasn't coming unless the Knicks traded for him because he wasnt waiting until free agency.
Years and years of striking out on free agents. Players don't want to come here because of Dolan. He has created an awful toxic environment around the Knicks that no players want any part of
I realize you're pissed, but this is all bullshit (no offense). If the Knicks get lucky in the draft (and the lottery is quite simply about luck), procure talent, and have cap space, players will come here. To say otherwise is really silly. And I would argue that the Cleveland Cavaliers haven't been run any better than the Knicks. They've just beyond all comprehension managed to get lucky in the lottery 4 times in 12 years, despite only having the worst record once during that span. They were run so poorly after they got LeBron, that he left.Because of Irving, the asset of Wiggins, and salary cap space, LeBron James decided to go back to Cleveland and play for the idiot who wrote "The Letter". And they're being run so poorly now that LeBron is going to leave again.
Yes, the Knicks suck and there's no denying that. But players aren't going anyplace with a bad team, so to single out Dolan or the Knicks is pointless.
RE: RE: Good look or not. Why is everyone so sure griffin will be great
I fail to see how he's sure fire. He had Kyrie. Landed the top pic, and traded it for love. Who the cava seemingly want out. And who he would have shipped out. Traded for old washed up players. Frye Korver added demon Williams. And lucked into having a once in a lifetime player grow up in Cleveland and be willing to come back.
Look at some of the contracts he handed out as well
It's not about Griffin (for me) it's about balking at letting him replace Dolan's cronies.
Spot on Dan. This is the issue to me. I wasn't sold on Griffin as this savior but this is why the Knicks lose. Even Phil Jackson only brought on 1 person (Gaines) to the front office. The Dolan cronies will survive no matter what.
It's why I wanted Ujiri. He has the gravitas to truly be a president and clean house. This is the most ass backwards franchise ever. How can you not let a GM bring in his own staff? It's almost like not letting the head coach hire his own staff or run his own offense. Oh wait the Knicks already do that.
Knicks are by far the worst run team in the NBA. Utterly pathetic.
and are in the process of ruining him. A once-in-a-lifetime player like Lebron can overcome anything, but you typically need to mix top talent with good coaching and solid organizational structure. Larry Brown, Mike D'Antoni and Phil Jackson all seemed pretty smart before they got here. Forget David Griffin - we need a priest to exorcise these demons.
Got in me for criticizing the draft pick. But smith and Mitchell were such safer picks and they look very legit. Frank looked average against awful competition and is - non athletic point guard. That just doesn't work in today's nba. I am hoping for the best but I know the best he will bring will be well short of a superstar. It's fine that everyone else has this false hope, but if you watch tape of him it's very obvious to see
Got in me for criticizing the draft pick. But smith and Mitchell were such safer picks and they look very legit. Frank looked average against awful competition and is - non athletic point guard. That just doesn't work in today's nba. I am hoping for the best but I know the best he will bring will be well short of a superstar. It's fine that everyone else has this false hope, but if you watch tape of him it's very obvious to see
I trust your draft analysis as much as I trust Dolan running the Knicks.
It's his knees that concern people. And if you want to carry the flag for Donovan Mitchell, go ahead. Playing in Utah, he'll need all the attention he can get.
need to mass boycott. It would actually work. Dolan would be removed if the stock tanked because the building was half empty for a couple years.
It's never going to happen, but because they are publicly traded a mass boycott would actually work.
No, he wouldn't. In fact, he's actively trying to re-privatize the company. Besides, he (and the Dolan family trust) control the voting interest by a wide margin - he's not getting removed.
I can't blame anyone for forcing their way outta here.
Everyone brings up the money he'll be leaving on the table, but money isn't everything. The Knicks have an opportunity to build a good young team over the next couple of years - if they fail this time, when will they ever get it right?
RE: I can't blame anyone for forcing their way outta here.
Everyone brings up the money he'll be leaving on the table, but money isn't everything. The Knicks have an opportunity to build a good young team over the next couple of years - if they fail this time, when will they ever get it right?
this is the most troubling part of this, we now know no one competeting is going to take the job..
sad part is knicks have sone good guys in this front office but they are overshadowed by morons
Who didn't see Griffin pulling out after the personnel request
management is clueless and detrimental to the future of the team.
Apparently Dolan doesn't read the press and doesn't realize that the Knicks are a laughingstock. The only way is to go to games and chant "fire Mills" or something like that.
Dolan is that big of an idiot.
RE: It takes a special idiot to not recognize that the current
management is clueless and detrimental to the future of the team.
Apparently Dolan doesn't read the press and doesn't realize that the Knicks are a laughingstock. The only way is to go to games and chant "fire Mills" or something like that.
Dolan is that big of an idiot.
That will never work. Dolan has basically said in so many words that the fans are idiots and he doesn't give a shit about them.
Someone else said it best. He surrounds himself with yes men. If you cross him you are finished. The perfect example is when one of his employees asked to see his badge. He didn't have it. The woman wouldn't let him in. He was ranting and raving who he was. He dropped his name. The woman didn't know who he was. He fired her. It was all over the news so he hired her back. That just shows the type of person he is. He fired someone for doing their job. God forbid.
The team needs to be turned over. There needs to be all mew people to get rid of the current culture. It is so toxic. It is like buying a house that has been on fire amd the foundation is shot but instead of knocking it down amd building it back up right they try hanging a picture on the wall convincing themselves that it looks so much better. Meanwhile, the house just gets worse and worse.
Got in me for criticizing the draft pick. But smith and Mitchell were such safer picks and they look very legit. Frank looked average against awful competition and is - non athletic point guard. That just doesn't work in today's nba. I am hoping for the best but I know the best he will bring will be well short of a superstar. It's fine that everyone else has this false hope, but if you watch tape of him it's very obvious to see
You're in a bad place if you cannot even wait past summer league to try to play the told you so card. And please don't be dishonest and say you "hope for the best". Considering how much these comments are on repeat, what you're acting hoping for is to be able to say you're right.
You seem like a pretty knowledgeable basketball guy from the years I have seen you posting. I think I am pretty knowledable myself. You are in full denial if you think frenchy was the right pick over Mitchell or Dennis smith jr. Basketball is one of the few sports where after watching film you can tell retty quickly if a player has it or not, obviously there are exceptions, but you cannot teach athleticism and if you watch all the available film on Frenchy and there is plenty available and you watch the competition and his handle, etc. it is quite simple to see he will never be an elite guard in the NBA whereas the other 2 guys at least have a shot if they put the work in and that's what I have been adamant. At #8 on a rebuilding team you go for the home run upside and we went for the George hill/derek Harper pg, which is a good 4th or 5th piece on a championship team. I think Mitchell and smith have a shot at being #1 or #2 guys if they put the work in. Hey if I am wrong I will be the first to admit it and of course I hope I am wrong. As for monk he seems to be an elite shooter and athletic so he can present a potential big time as player as wel, but I have not watched him play enough to make that call.
A source told the Daily News that one of Griffins requests was to remove Houston, who has been with the Knicks as a player or an executive for the majority of the last 20 years. With Dolans support as one of the owners all-time favorite players (remember that $100 million contract extension), Houston rapidly ascended in New Yorks front office and many believe hes being groomed as the next GM under Mills.
And I don't know what would compel him to relinquish control to an actual basketball mind.
At this point I am fairly certain the Nets will return to prominence before the Knicks brass get a clue.
It is tiresome to be so negative continually and even being a diehard has its limit. I hope Dolan lives to see an entire generation of NY basketball fans not caring about the Knicks and nightly empty seats at MSG.
In the years Houston has been with the Knicks, have any teams around the league requested permission to interview him for GM vacancies? You'd think a young and supposedly bright basketball mind would be in high demand.
The latest episode is denying a qualified GM from bringing in his own team. Heaven forbid the staff that has won one playoff series in a decade gets replaced.
It is clear he is a horrible judge of management talent, is loyal just to sycophants and protects his "special" employees over the fan base.
Unless the league steps in, the Knicks will never win.
I've been a fanatical Knick fan since the 1970's and a season ticket holder since the early 1989,s but it's time to say goodbye.
You seem like a pretty knowledgeable basketball guy from the years I have seen you posting. I think I am pretty knowledable myself. You are in full denial if you think frenchy was the right pick over Mitchell or Dennis smith jr. Basketball is one of the few sports where after watching film you can tell retty quickly if a player has it or not, obviously there are exceptions, but you cannot teach athleticism and if you watch all the available film on Frenchy and there is plenty available and you watch the competition and his handle, etc. it is quite simple to see he will never be an elite guard in the NBA whereas the other 2 guys at least have a shot if they put the work in and that's what I have been adamant. At #8 on a rebuilding team you go for the home run upside and we went for the George hill/derek Harper pg, which is a good 4th or 5th piece on a championship team. I think Mitchell and smith have a shot at being #1 or #2 guys if they put the work in. Hey if I am wrong I will be the first to admit it and of course I hope I am wrong. As for monk he seems to be an elite shooter and athletic so he can present a potential big time as player as wel, but I have not watched him play enough to make that call.
That's fine, we've had this discussion before.
Posting here every time DSJ has a summer league game bitching and moaning about the pick does nothing. If Frank turns out to be a bust, go ahead and have a field day.
I don't remember that, I usually don't speak too confidently about football players, hard for me to judge football players out of college, def more of a basketball guy.
a lot of you on this thread are actually to blame. 400 plus posts breaking down what the Knicks will do for FA. The passion is there and until there is indifference, nothing will change. But you guys can't help yourselves, you get all excited every offseason talking about all the rumors. The franchise is the worst run in all of sports.
a lot of you on this thread are actually to blame. 400 plus posts breaking down what the Knicks will do for FA. The passion is there and until there is indifference, nothing will change. But you guys can't help yourselves, you get all excited every offseason talking about all the rumors. The franchise is the worst run in all of sports.
I'm not going to apologize for continuing to root for the Knicks.
What a terrible take.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Frenchy couldn't
bring the ball up against full court press by quick, harrassing PG's (see Randle against Dallas) and would have to play SG for a couple of years. Of course they then drafted Dotson AND signed Hardaway for more money than everybody anticipated.
I mean, does that sound like they know what they are doing?
After reading that Begley article, man I despise that foursome so much. Especially Mills, my god what credentials does he have?
As Knicks fans we need to embarrass the organization.
But I'm not gonna be one to stop rooting and supporting the Knicks. Thinking that eventually Dolan will sell. If you guys only care about winning. Go join on the golden state dynasty and enjoy the championships.
Im a fan of this team and I'll root for them and always try and see the best. All I've ever known is terrible knick teams. And I'm sticking it out because that's what being a fan is. Being a giants/Yankees/duke fan. I've seen championships and amazing moments. Someday I'll witness it with the Knicks. I'm not gonna give up on them no matter how shitty they are
a lot of you on this thread are actually to blame. 400 plus posts breaking down what the Knicks will do for FA. The passion is there and until there is indifference, nothing will change. But you guys can't help yourselves, you get all excited every offseason talking about all the rumors. The franchise is the worst run in all of sports.
yes kill the fans for rooting for the team they have loved since they were born...
sorry i am not a bandwagon jumper, rather be a die hard who goes through all the crap because winning makes it feel that much better...
a lot of you on this thread are actually to blame. 400 plus posts breaking down what the Knicks will do for FA. The passion is there and until there is indifference, nothing will change. But you guys can't help yourselves, you get all excited every offseason talking about all the rumors. The franchise is the worst run in all of sports.
yes kill the fans for rooting for the team they have loved since they were born...
sorry i am not a bandwagon jumper, rather be a die hard who goes through all the crap because winning makes it feel that much better...
I think sometimes you have blind loyalty 16, you can be a diehard fan and still kill the organization for the ridiculously dumb shit they do. You sometimes defend moves that are indefensible. I respect how much you love the Knicks thiugh. Ive had enough personally. Wake me up when Dolan dies or sells the team
a lot of you on this thread are actually to blame. 400 plus posts breaking down what the Knicks will do for FA. The passion is there and until there is indifference, nothing will change. But you guys can't help yourselves, you get all excited every offseason talking about all the rumors. The franchise is the worst run in all of sports.
yes kill the fans for rooting for the team they have loved since they were born...
sorry i am not a bandwagon jumper, rather be a die hard who goes through all the crap because winning makes it feel that much better...
I think sometimes you have blind loyalty 16, you can be a diehard fan and still kill the organization for the ridiculously dumb shit they do. You sometimes defend moves that are indefensible. I respect how much you love the Knicks thiugh. Ive had enough personally. Wake me up when Dolan dies or sells the team
oh i definitely have blind loyalty and have admitted that...
but i have also killed the knicks and dolan on thia thread for how they handled griffin and even said they will not make a good hire...
my frustration is the knicks do have a future dolan is just to stupid to hire a guy with experience and give them the keys...
but now I realize he was right. All he wanted was part ownership and control of personnel. In the years since we've had a million GM's & the worst owner in sports. Riley saw the writing on the wall and got the fuck out. Good for him. He's got 3 titles in Miami since.
Shams CharaniaVerified account @ShamsCharania
Restricted free agent Alan Williams has agreed to a three-year, $17M deal to stay with the Phoenix Suns, league sources tell The Vertical.
A whole lot of smoke but no flames.
A whole lot of smoke but no flames.
The guy I linked isn't a clickable guy. He's as legit as I've seen.
Also, *simplicity's
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Why the hell would Portland do that deal? Are they getting to first rounders?
Interesting.
I can't see either team having any interest in Ryan Anderson.
Its wishful thinking for anyone to take that contract.
That would be a deal breaker
Its wishful thinking for anyone to take that contract.
That would be a deal breaker
If he retires does his contract remain against the cap?
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He is broken down and might not play real minutes again.
Its wishful thinking for anyone to take that contract.
That would be a deal breaker
If he retires does his contract remain against the cap?
The Knicks would need to buy him out or they could get a medical but I don't think he would fail a physical.
Basically that deal will haunt this team for the next 4 years.
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In comment 13523263 larryflower37 said:
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He is broken down and might not play real minutes again.
Its wishful thinking for anyone to take that contract.
That would be a deal breaker
If he retires does his contract remain against the cap?
The Knicks would need to buy him out or they could get a medical but I don't think he would fail a physical.
Basically that deal will haunt this team for the next 4 years.
Thankfully, larry, it will only haunt them for 3 more years. But I'm guessing he'll be bought out after this season if they can't unload him (fat chance of that, of course).
Really hope this Melo trade gets done soon. I know we wont get much back, but at least we hopefully get Qi and something else. It just increases our assets. Let a young team develop, get another top pick, and hope that KP becomes the star we thing we can be.
And i really hope we move Lee, he does nothing for this team. Lets roll with THJR/Dotson. Get another asset for Lee and let the kids play. Noah can still be the vet leader.
4 times the player of THjr
Good for both sides IMO - ( New Window )
How exactly is that good for the Knicks? Gordon plays the same position as THjr, Anderson the same position as KP, Capela the same position as Willy. So you're just adding redundant depth for a cap savings of $8M while taking on longer contracts and giving up the best contract in the deal with KOQ.
he was the same sucko player he's always been.
Longer contract than Melo. Makes absolutely zero sense
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for the bockers... Good for both sides IMO - ( New Window )
How exactly is that good for the Knicks? Gordon plays the same position as THjr, Anderson the same position as KP, Capela the same position as Willy. So you're just adding redundant depth for a cap savings of $8M while taking on longer contracts and giving up the best contract in the deal with KOQ.
Dunk please take the Knicks' GM job. It's obvious you know what you're doing . I think the Hardaway signing was insane . Melo will soon be gone. Then it will be time for Nixon's Checkers speech because the Knicks and their fans won't have him to kick around anymore more. Life after Melo should prove interesting . As in life without a #1 scorer . The Knicks are shaping up to be a Top 3 worst team for the coming season . Maybe that's the plan but I suspect they will truly blow .
NYK get: Mo Harkless, Festus Ezeli, rights to Sergio Llull, Isiah Hartenstein
Portland gets Anderson and obviously, Melo to Houston.
And on Lee:
link to quoted text^ - ( New Window )
And on Lee:
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Courtney Lee has been told when Melo is moved the preference is to play him with THJ
link to quoted text^ - ( New Window )
That tweet was a joke
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and the fanbase will hate the trade per this tweet
And on Lee:
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Courtney Lee has been told when Melo is moved the preference is to play him with THJ
link to quoted text^ - ( New Window )
That tweet was a joke
I just realized. I'm so anxious to hear about this man... urgh
I'm quite sure you hear things in your head all the time, so I would definitely believe you are hearing that.
Lee is a dead end for the Knicks.
okafor was the 2 pick just 2 years ago, highly touted as a potential franchise player. Averaged 17 ppg as a rookie. He has size you can't teach.
He obviously regressed a bit last year, but still got 11 ppg as a second year player.
The kid is just 21 years old and has Duke pedigree.
To me, this exactly the type of move the Knicks should go for. A good risk.
Lee is a dead end for the Knicks.
okafor was the 2 pick just 2 years ago, highly touted as a potential franchise player. Averaged 17 ppg as a rookie. He has size you can't teach.
He obviously regressed a bit last year, but still got 11 ppg as a second year player.
I so agree. Tell that to that putz Sgrets
The kid is just 21 years old and has Duke pedigree.
To me, this exactly the type of move the Knicks should go for. A good risk.
Yeah I don't know the exact players. The guy I talked to said he's hearing what the players will be, but doesn't want to be wrong and look like a jackass. He did say it will be a pretty disappointing package for the Knicks.
You already have a guy who has similar skills next to KP but is a far far better rebounder(and similar defensive limitations).
Griffin, the ex-Cleveland Cavaliers GM, traveled to New York this weekend to meet with Mills, with whom Griffin has continued to discuss the shaping of a potential Knicks partnership.
Griffin is also expected to meet with owner James Dolan in the near future, league sources said."
dolan is not leading the search, they have a consultant doing that
west actually recommended griffin to the knicks
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I wish we'd have gotten Jerry West as our consultant, though. I'd have loved to have him involved with the Knicks...he actually always knows what he's doing.
west actually recommended griffin to the knicks
True. I just wish he'd be a part of our FO.
Besides, doesn't everyone NOT want Dolan involved?
Unless Mills knows he's pretty much a lock to be president and hiring underneath him (gm only).
I just want to get this straight. People are concerned that nobody would be hired and this would be on Mills. Most felt someone other than Mills should have been making the decision on any basketball decisions. So, if true, and Mills is now the new team president people are okay with that if Griffin is brought in as the GM, a position that concedes to the President?
Either way, I don't like how this is being run. Imo, either the owner hires the President and is instrumental in that process with the help of the consultant or Mills is the President. I just disagree with the way either situation would turn out.
I just want to get this straight. People are concerned that nobody would be hired and this would be on Mills. Most felt someone other than Mills should have been making the decision on any basketball decisions. So, if true, and Mills is now the new team president people are okay with that if Griffin is brought in as the GM, a position that concedes to the President?
Either way, I don't like how this is being run. Imo, either the owner hires the President and is instrumental in that process with the help of the consultant or Mills is the President. I just disagree with the way either situation would turn out.
I agree w/you but it seems the alternative would be Mills as Pres/GM. At least w/Griffin as GM, there would be a voice w/NBA GM experience to counterbalance Mills. Whether Mills lets Griffin actually do his job when Mills disagrees is still to be seen!
I just want to get this straight. People are concerned that nobody would be hired and this would be on Mills. Most felt someone other than Mills should have been making the decision on any basketball decisions. So, if true, and Mills is now the new team president people are okay with that if Griffin is brought in as the GM, a position that concedes to the President?
Either way, I don't like how this is being run. Imo, either the owner hires the President and is instrumental in that process with the help of the consultant or Mills is the President. I just disagree with the way either situation would turn out.
It really depends on whether or not they give the GM power over personal decisions. If Mills deals more with organizational and contract matters and leaves the GM alone it could work fine, but that is the big if.
woj made mention though that griffin will not take job unless he can bring in his own guys
It's hard to liken this to the Giants, but the role of a team president isn't to make roster moves. It's to hire the person that does.
Hopefully he wouldn't stand for it.
Phil only brought one person with him, but I remember him wanting to make other changes and that seemingly going nowhere.
It's hard to liken this to the Giants, but the role of a team president isn't to make roster moves. It's to hire the person that does.
That would be nice and makes sense if it was any team other than the Knicks. The thing that is truly worrisome is in basketball more than any other sport is that one wrong move can set you back like 4+ years. Take the Noah contract for example. That is something that is near impossible to move and the only true way to fix it is just to let it expire. That is what I worry about with THJ. People keep looking at the brightside. I get it. But with any investment you have to look at the good and the bad. What is the downside? The downside is that he doesn't live up to the contract and the 15% trade kicker makes it near impossible to trade. So, when making a bet it is alwags wiser to play the field. There are many more things that could go wrong with that deal than the positive part that some are focusing on.
People also focus on the youth aspect. That is nice but just reading people say we are young so it is great. To me that is like saying that I have a car that rides smooth. That is nice but if it keeps breaking down, or the gas mileage is like 10 miles to the gallon, or it is leaking oil, etc. then it doesn't make much sense. Yes, a youth movement is nice. There is nothing wrong with it. All I am saying is that being young is just one of many factors that should be analyzed.
Yup. The first warning sign of the Jackson regime was the continued presence of Mills and Houston. If those two stick around, so be it, but we need some fresh blood, too.
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to failure.
Yup. The first warning sign of the Jackson regime was the continued presence of Mills and Houston. If those two stick around, so be it, but we need some fresh blood, too.
woj made it sound like griffin wont take the job unless he can bring in his own guys...
also if the structure is business mills and all basketball is griffin that is fine...
a lot of teams operate that way
Griffin is part of long line of GM/Presidents that were going to be allowed to run the basketball part of the business untouched.
Dolan will screw it up...
Griffin is also expected to meet with owner James Dolan in the near future, league sources said."
I can imagine how that meeting will go.
Griffin:"It's an honor to meet you Mr. Dol.."
Dolan"Do you like great music?"
Griffin:"Um yeah I guess so but I don't see what this has to do wi.."
Dolan "Have you ever seen my band perform?":
Griffin " No sir I have not."
Dolan: "This interview is over! Get out of my office!"
1. Everything I've read suggests he wants to bring "some" of his own guys. Knowing the Knicks that will mean 1-2 guys added to the guys they already have. I'd be blown away if Houston and Mills are gone. I think you see 1-2 guys added to what is already an over crowded FO situation.
2. I'd be pretty shocked if they dumped Hornacek but presumably the leash isn't going to be that long. Tough spot for Hornacek.
Give me an Ewing moment and add Porter..
Porter, Porz and Willy in the front court.
Frank and THJ
and yes allow a man to dream...
Give me an Ewing moment and add Porter..
Porter, Porz and Willy in the front court.
Frank and THJ
and yes allow a man to dream...
This is the Knicks we are talking about. There are no dreams only nightmares.
As DMM said Qi has to be part of the deal for me. Hopefully they can expand this to a 3 team trade that includes an expiring contract or two.
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Really don't see that type of fortune following the Knicks.
Same, I liked him a lot and thought he would make a nice fit here. I am excited about Frank as well and think he can be a good player. Only time will tell
Knicks executive leadership is incredibly inept but hopefully they're waiting to find their GM before trading Melo
Then at least we'll have a professional trying to squeeze as much out of Melo as he can or otherwise sitting on him until the trade deadline mid season
Yeah, I'd hate to miss more opportunities to do deals like $71M for a pretty ordinary player. Can't miss things like that.
This team always does thing ass backwards. Fires Jackson AFTER he drafts, signs THJR w/o a real GM in place...and those are only our latest examples of 20 years of ineptitude.
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to make any deals. What if he doesnt sign. Then you could quite easily miss opportunities..
Yeah, I'd hate to miss more opportunities to do deals like $71M for a pretty ordinary player. Can't miss things like that.
This team always does thing ass backwards. Fires Jackson AFTER he drafts, signs THJR w/o a real GM in place...and those are only our latest examples of 20 years of ineptitude.
im only stating the facts.. and the reality is that in this NBA landscape. thats what an ordinary player can get..
someway.. somehow.. they will let you down..
See. We're fucked. They won't unload some of the dead weight or give him the power he needs to be effective, I'm guessing. What a shit show. You'd figure that even Dolan could recognize something that hasn't worked for two decades and let someone really run the organization.
blueblood, it's not you I'm frustrated with; it's the completely dysfunctional organization we have.
Ian Begley, ESPN Staff Writer
basically houston and mills are untouchable..
knicks could get a really good gm but dolan would rather have his ass kissers
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Not ideal
See. We're fucked. They won't unload some of the dead weight or give him the power he needs to be effective, I'm guessing. What a shit show. You'd figure that even Dolan could recognize something that hasn't worked for two decades and let someone really run the organization.
blueblood, it's not you I'm frustrated with; it's the completely dysfunctional organization we have.
I know..I just realize this franchise is inept and I KNEW they would never be able to attract someone like Griffin..
NO ONE is coming in here to rescue the Knicks.. as long as DOLAN has his fingerprints on this team.. its going NOWHERE
Look at some of the contracts he handed out as well
Look at some of the contracts he handed out as well
It's not about Griffin (for me) it's about balking at letting him replace Dolan's cronies.
Clearly the people who have been there for a while are awful at what they do. It should be a total house cleaning but wont be.
Shame on any of us who actually pay money to go see the Knicks. I did it last year to take my nephew to see Steph Curry, but never again. Until Dolan sells the team I am not going to a Knicks game at MSG.
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I fail to see how he's sure fire. He had Kyrie. Landed the top pic, and traded it for love. Who the cava seemingly want out. And who he would have shipped out. Traded for old washed up players. Frye Korver added demon Williams. And lucked into having a once in a lifetime player grow up in Cleveland and be willing to come back.
Look at some of the contracts he handed out as well
It's not about Griffin (for me) it's about balking at letting him replace Dolan's cronies.
That's fair. I'm more or less speaking to the people who I've heard been calling griffin a top 5 gm.
Kristaps could reach his full ability and it still wont matter because we're never going to be able to attract a top free agent with Dolan as owner
Everything about this franchise is an embarrassment.
Kristaps could reach his full ability and it still wont matter because we're never going to be able to attract a top free agent with Dolan as owner
this i dont agree with, gilbert is one of the worst and most meddling owners in sports who wrote a letter killing lebron and kebron still came back...
players dont care about the owners they care about the players...
dolan owns the rangers dkes that stop players from coming? no because the rangers are good...
when the knicks had carmelo and stat, chandler took less to come, jason kidd took less to come...
if the players are here other players will come...
it is sad knicks can get any gm or oresident they want but dolan needs his lackies in the front office...
they actually have young players to build around and could have a nice future
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is ever coming here with Dolan as owner. It's to that point. And you can't blame them.
Kristaps could reach his full ability and it still wont matter because we're never going to be able to attract a top free agent with Dolan as owner
this i dont agree with, gilbert is one of the worst and most meddling owners in sports who wrote a letter killing lebron and kebron still came back...
players dont care about the owners they care about the players...
dolan owns the rangers dkes that stop players from coming? no because the rangers are good...
when the knicks had carmelo and stat, chandler took less to come, jason kidd took less to come...
if the players are here other players will come...
LeBron came back because he loved Cleveland and wanted to win a title for his hometown.
If he wasn't from Cleveland, he never even thinks about it.
And Dolan is a significantly worse owner than Gilbert.
Players don't come here. One did and he wasn't coming unless the Knicks traded for him because he wasnt waiting until free agency.
Years and years of striking out on free agents. Players don't want to come here because of Dolan. He has created an awful toxic environment around the Knicks that no players want any part of
This is so fucking depressing.
Really don't see that type of fortune following the Knicks.
Didn't Qi sign and is therefore not trade-eligible for the next 30 days? I think it's Hartenstein or bust as far as Houston's prospects go.
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In comment 13523843 MookGiants said:
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is ever coming here with Dolan as owner. It's to that point. And you can't blame them.
Kristaps could reach his full ability and it still wont matter because we're never going to be able to attract a top free agent with Dolan as owner
this i dont agree with, gilbert is one of the worst and most meddling owners in sports who wrote a letter killing lebron and kebron still came back...
players dont care about the owners they care about the players...
dolan owns the rangers dkes that stop players from coming? no because the rangers are good...
when the knicks had carmelo and stat, chandler took less to come, jason kidd took less to come...
if the players are here other players will come...
LeBron came back because he loved Cleveland and wanted to win a title for his hometown.
If he wasn't from Cleveland, he never even thinks about it.
And Dolan is a significantly worse owner than Gilbert.
Players don't come here. One did and he wasn't coming unless the Knicks traded for him because he wasnt waiting until free agency.
Years and years of striking out on free agents. Players don't want to come here because of Dolan. He has created an awful toxic environment around the Knicks that no players want any part of
players because the team fucking sucks...
if the team didnt suck players would come it has nothing to do with dolan...
how do you explain the rangers being so good?
is dolan a fucking moron? absokutely but he took a step back for 3 years and still no one came, because the team still sucked...
and the only reason lebron went back to cleveland is becauae of kyrie, had nlthing to do with going home...
if the cavs were a dumpster fire he never goes back to cleveland
The guy he hired didn't change anything ( Jackson)
It's never going to happen, but because they are publicly traded a mass boycott would actually work.
The guy he hired didn't change
anything ( Jackson)
that doesnt matter to dolan, for 3 and a half years he was not public enemy number 1, phil jackson was...
that is all he cares about, he doesnt care about the team winning, he cares about his name not being on the back page...
phil jackson was his shield, doesnt matter if jackson was horrible
this is in response to mook saying dolan is the reason free agents wont come...
It's never going to happen, but because they are publicly traded a mass boycott would actually work.
I'm guessing that the Dolan family owns more than 50% of the stock, and if that's true he's not gonna get ousted. And Dolan doesn't give a shit about money lost, so a boycott will likely do nothing to change him. Like another famous man, he's so narcissistic that he couldn't care less what other people think or feel.
Same. Smith Jr. looks like a real player so far. I hope Frank balls out.
I can see myself thinking of the Knicks with the same wistfulness I might have felt for a long time lover after we broke up.
Pathetic, but I'm not gonna root for a mismanaged shit show like this any longer.
LeBron came back because he loved Cleveland and wanted to win a title for his hometown.
If he wasn't from Cleveland, he never even thinks about it.
And Dolan is a significantly worse owner than Gilbert.
Players don't come here. One did and he wasn't coming unless the Knicks traded for him because he wasnt waiting until free agency.
Years and years of striking out on free agents. Players don't want to come here because of Dolan. He has created an awful toxic environment around the Knicks that no players want any part of
I realize you're pissed, but this is all bullshit (no offense). If the Knicks get lucky in the draft (and the lottery is quite simply about luck), procure talent, and have cap space, players will come here. To say otherwise is really silly. And I would argue that the Cleveland Cavaliers haven't been run any better than the Knicks. They've just beyond all comprehension managed to get lucky in the lottery 4 times in 12 years, despite only having the worst record once during that span. They were run so poorly after they got LeBron, that he left.Because of Irving, the asset of Wiggins, and salary cap space, LeBron James decided to go back to Cleveland and play for the idiot who wrote "The Letter". And they're being run so poorly now that LeBron is going to leave again.
Yes, the Knicks suck and there's no denying that. But players aren't going anyplace with a bad team, so to single out Dolan or the Knicks is pointless.
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I fail to see how he's sure fire. He had Kyrie. Landed the top pic, and traded it for love. Who the cava seemingly want out. And who he would have shipped out. Traded for old washed up players. Frye Korver added demon Williams. And lucked into having a once in a lifetime player grow up in Cleveland and be willing to come back.
Look at some of the contracts he handed out as well
It's not about Griffin (for me) it's about balking at letting him replace Dolan's cronies.
Spot on Dan. This is the issue to me. I wasn't sold on Griffin as this savior but this is why the Knicks lose. Even Phil Jackson only brought on 1 person (Gaines) to the front office. The Dolan cronies will survive no matter what.
It's why I wanted Ujiri. He has the gravitas to truly be a president and clean house. This is the most ass backwards franchise ever. How can you not let a GM bring in his own staff? It's almost like not letting the head coach hire his own staff or run his own offense. Oh wait the Knicks already do that.
Knicks are by far the worst run team in the NBA. Utterly pathetic.
I trust your draft analysis as much as I trust Dolan running the Knicks.
We knew that.
Who is Kristops?
It's never going to happen, but because they are publicly traded a mass boycott would actually work.
No, he wouldn't. In fact, he's actively trying to re-privatize the company. Besides, he (and the Dolan family trust) control the voting interest by a wide margin - he's not getting removed.
this is the most troubling part of this, we now know no one competeting is going to take the job..
sad part is knicks have sone good guys in this front office but they are overshadowed by morons
At this point is there any doubt he goes elsewhere when he's eligible for free agency?
Apparently Dolan doesn't read the press and doesn't realize that the Knicks are a laughingstock. The only way is to go to games and chant "fire Mills" or something like that.
Dolan is that big of an idiot.
Apparently Dolan doesn't read the press and doesn't realize that the Knicks are a laughingstock. The only way is to go to games and chant "fire Mills" or something like that.
Dolan is that big of an idiot.
That will never work. Dolan has basically said in so many words that the fans are idiots and he doesn't give a shit about them.
Someone else said it best. He surrounds himself with yes men. If you cross him you are finished. The perfect example is when one of his employees asked to see his badge. He didn't have it. The woman wouldn't let him in. He was ranting and raving who he was. He dropped his name. The woman didn't know who he was. He fired her. It was all over the news so he hired her back. That just shows the type of person he is. He fired someone for doing their job. God forbid.
The team needs to be turned over. There needs to be all mew people to get rid of the current culture. It is so toxic. It is like buying a house that has been on fire amd the foundation is shot but instead of knocking it down amd building it back up right they try hanging a picture on the wall convincing themselves that it looks so much better. Meanwhile, the house just gets worse and worse.
You're in a bad place if you cannot even wait past summer league to try to play the told you so card. And please don't be dishonest and say you "hope for the best". Considering how much these comments are on repeat, what you're acting hoping for is to be able to say you're right.
LOLKnicks - ( New Window )
At this point I am fairly certain the Nets will return to prominence before the Knicks brass get a clue.
It is tiresome to be so negative continually and even being a diehard has its limit. I hope Dolan lives to see an entire generation of NY basketball fans not caring about the Knicks and nightly empty seats at MSG.
Who was the BBIer that wouldn't stop talking about Duke Johnson?
The latest episode is denying a qualified GM from bringing in his own team. Heaven forbid the staff that has won one playoff series in a decade gets replaced.
It is clear he is a horrible judge of management talent, is loyal just to sycophants and protects his "special" employees over the fan base.
Unless the league steps in, the Knicks will never win.
I've been a fanatical Knick fan since the 1970's and a season ticket holder since the early 1989,s but it's time to say goodbye.
That's fine, we've had this discussion before.
Posting here every time DSJ has a summer league game bitching and moaning about the pick does nothing. If Frank turns out to be a bust, go ahead and have a field day.
I'm not going to apologize for continuing to root for the Knicks.
What a terrible take.
I mean, does that sound like they know what they are doing?
After reading that Begley article, man I despise that foursome so much. Especially Mills, my god what credentials does he have?
Instead of Alcoholics Anonymous we need Knicks Fans Anonymous.
Im a fan of this team and I'll root for them and always try and see the best. All I've ever known is terrible knick teams. And I'm sticking it out because that's what being a fan is. Being a giants/Yankees/duke fan. I've seen championships and amazing moments. Someday I'll witness it with the Knicks. I'm not gonna give up on them no matter how shitty they are
yes kill the fans for rooting for the team they have loved since they were born...
sorry i am not a bandwagon jumper, rather be a die hard who goes through all the crap because winning makes it feel that much better...
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a lot of you on this thread are actually to blame. 400 plus posts breaking down what the Knicks will do for FA. The passion is there and until there is indifference, nothing will change. But you guys can't help yourselves, you get all excited every offseason talking about all the rumors. The franchise is the worst run in all of sports.
yes kill the fans for rooting for the team they have loved since they were born...
sorry i am not a bandwagon jumper, rather be a die hard who goes through all the crap because winning makes it feel that much better...
I think sometimes you have blind loyalty 16, you can be a diehard fan and still kill the organization for the ridiculously dumb shit they do. You sometimes defend moves that are indefensible. I respect how much you love the Knicks thiugh. Ive had enough personally. Wake me up when Dolan dies or sells the team
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In comment 13524009 Sean said:
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a lot of you on this thread are actually to blame. 400 plus posts breaking down what the Knicks will do for FA. The passion is there and until there is indifference, nothing will change. But you guys can't help yourselves, you get all excited every offseason talking about all the rumors. The franchise is the worst run in all of sports.
yes kill the fans for rooting for the team they have loved since they were born...
sorry i am not a bandwagon jumper, rather be a die hard who goes through all the crap because winning makes it feel that much better...
I think sometimes you have blind loyalty 16, you can be a diehard fan and still kill the organization for the ridiculously dumb shit they do. You sometimes defend moves that are indefensible. I respect how much you love the Knicks thiugh. Ive had enough personally. Wake me up when Dolan dies or sells the team
oh i definitely have blind loyalty and have admitted that...
but i have also killed the knicks and dolan on thia thread for how they handled griffin and even said they will not make a good hire...
my frustration is the knicks do have a future dolan is just to stupid to hire a guy with experience and give them the keys...
Restricted free agent Alan Williams has agreed to a three-year, $17M deal to stay with the Phoenix Suns, league sources tell The Vertical.