Also said Lee has heard he'll be moved if Hardaway goes through unless Melo deal happens. Thoughts on keeping Lee if Melo is flipped? Yes to Melo to HOU - ( New Window )
Yeah I don't know the exact players. The guy I talked to said he's hearing what the players will be, but doesn't want to be wrong and look like a jackass. He did say it will be a pretty disappointing package for the Knicks.
Lee is an average player. Okafor at least has potential to be an elite scoring big man. If you could get him motivated to reach his full potential he could be a very nice fit next to KP. Provided KP develops into the defender I think he can be.
Lee is an average player. Okafor at least has potential to be an elite scoring big man. If you could get him motivated to reach his full potential he could be a very nice fit next to KP. Provided KP develops into the defender I think he can be.
You already have a guy who has similar skills next to KP but is a far far better rebounder(and similar defensive limitations).
Woj :Knicks, David Griffin moving toward contract talks for.GM
"After several conversations and a dinner meeting with franchise executive Steve Mills on Friday, the New York Knicks are progressing toward opening contract negotiations with David Griffin to become the team's next general manager, league sources told ESPN.
Griffin, the ex-Cleveland Cavaliers GM, traveled to New York this weekend to meet with Mills, with whom Griffin has continued to discuss the shaping of a potential Knicks partnership.
Griffin is also expected to meet with owner James Dolan in the near future, league sources said."
I wish we'd have gotten Jerry West as our consultant, though. I'd have loved to have him involved with the Knicks...he actually always knows what he's doing.
I wish we'd have gotten Jerry West as our consultant, though. I'd have loved to have him involved with the Knicks...he actually always knows what he's doing.
It is like Doug Marrone taking over for Gus Bradley when he was fired and then having Marrone interview other candidates. I am sure I am probably blinded by my frustration with this team but that doesn't sound weird?
I wish we'd have gotten Jerry West as our consultant, though. I'd have loved to have him involved with the Knicks...he actually always knows what he's doing.
It is like Doug Marrone taking over for Gus Bradley when he was fired and then having Marrone interview other candidates. I am sure I am probably blinded by my frustration with this team but that doesn't sound weird?
Unless Mills knows he's pretty much a lock to be president and hiring underneath him (gm only).
Therefore that is why it was comical to me that Dolan hasn't met Griffin yet. Now, what is even more worrisome is Mills is basically President and he is hiring a GM under him. That doesn't really change much of anything to me. This is why they continue to be the worst run organization in sports imo.
I just want to get this straight. People are concerned that nobody would be hired and this would be on Mills. Most felt someone other than Mills should have been making the decision on any basketball decisions. So, if true, and Mills is now the new team president people are okay with that if Griffin is brought in as the GM, a position that concedes to the President?
Either way, I don't like how this is being run. Imo, either the owner hires the President and is instrumental in that process with the help of the consultant or Mills is the President. I just disagree with the way either situation would turn out.
RE: It sounds weird to me if Mills was basically hiring his boss.
Therefore that is why it was comical to me that Dolan hasn't met Griffin yet. Now, what is even more worrisome is Mills is basically President and he is hiring a GM under him. That doesn't really change much of anything to me. This is why they continue to be the worst run organization in sports imo.
I just want to get this straight. People are concerned that nobody would be hired and this would be on Mills. Most felt someone other than Mills should have been making the decision on any basketball decisions. So, if true, and Mills is now the new team president people are okay with that if Griffin is brought in as the GM, a position that concedes to the President?
Either way, I don't like how this is being run. Imo, either the owner hires the President and is instrumental in that process with the help of the consultant or Mills is the President. I just disagree with the way either situation would turn out.
I agree w/you but it seems the alternative would be Mills as Pres/GM. At least w/Griffin as GM, there would be a voice w/NBA GM experience to counterbalance Mills. Whether Mills lets Griffin actually do his job when Mills disagrees is still to be seen!
RE: It sounds weird to me if Mills was basically hiring his boss.
Therefore that is why it was comical to me that Dolan hasn't met Griffin yet. Now, what is even more worrisome is Mills is basically President and he is hiring a GM under him. That doesn't really change much of anything to me. This is why they continue to be the worst run organization in sports imo.
I just want to get this straight. People are concerned that nobody would be hired and this would be on Mills. Most felt someone other than Mills should have been making the decision on any basketball decisions. So, if true, and Mills is now the new team president people are okay with that if Griffin is brought in as the GM, a position that concedes to the President?
Either way, I don't like how this is being run. Imo, either the owner hires the President and is instrumental in that process with the help of the consultant or Mills is the President. I just disagree with the way either situation would turn out.
It really depends on whether or not they give the GM power over personal decisions. If Mills deals more with organizational and contract matters and leaves the GM alone it could work fine, but that is the big if.
It's hard to liken this to the Giants, but the role of a team president isn't to make roster moves. It's to hire the person that does.
That would be nice and makes sense if it was any team other than the Knicks. The thing that is truly worrisome is in basketball more than any other sport is that one wrong move can set you back like 4+ years. Take the Noah contract for example. That is something that is near impossible to move and the only true way to fix it is just to let it expire. That is what I worry about with THJ. People keep looking at the brightside. I get it. But with any investment you have to look at the good and the bad. What is the downside? The downside is that he doesn't live up to the contract and the 15% trade kicker makes it near impossible to trade. So, when making a bet it is alwags wiser to play the field. There are many more things that could go wrong with that deal than the positive part that some are focusing on.
People also focus on the youth aspect. That is nice but just reading people say we are young so it is great. To me that is like saying that I have a car that rides smooth. That is nice but if it keeps breaking down, or the gas mileage is like 10 miles to the gallon, or it is leaking oil, etc. then it doesn't make much sense. Yes, a youth movement is nice. There is nothing wrong with it. All I am saying is that being young is just one of many factors that should be analyzed.
And when I say one bad move can set you back 4+ years
I am saying having Mills or Dolan step in at any point like Dolan did with the Melo deal. Now, Dolan does seem more hands off now which is a good thing (I still don't agree with how this hiring process is being run though) with the day to day operations. But, with Mills being in a higher position he would get final say over Griffin which 100% concerns me.
RE: If Griffin can't bring in his own guys this is likely doomed
Yup. The first warning sign of the Jackson regime was the continued presence of Mills and Houston. If those two stick around, so be it, but we need some fresh blood, too.
RE: RE: If Griffin can't bring in his own guys this is likely doomed
Yup. The first warning sign of the Jackson regime was the continued presence of Mills and Houston. If those two stick around, so be it, but we need some fresh blood, too.
woj made it sound like griffin wont take the job unless he can bring in his own guys...
also if the structure is business mills and all basketball is griffin that is fine...
a lot of teams operate that way
But if Mills is the business side of things as president
That brings us right back to why the hell is he making personnel moves to cap us out before he has hired a GM? Dolan's call obviously. He didn't want to miss out on a free agent splash just because of the inconvenience of not having a real GM in place.
Griffin is also expected to meet with owner James Dolan in the near future, league sources said."
I can imagine how that meeting will go.
Griffin:"It's an honor to meet you Mr. Dol.."
Dolan"Do you like great music?"
Griffin:"Um yeah I guess so but I don't see what this has to do wi.."
Dolan "Have you ever seen my band perform?":
Griffin " No sir I have not."
Dolan: "This interview is over! Get out of my office!"
Even if he gets the job, he's going to be saddled with Alan Houston, Steve Mills and the rest of the garden cronies. If they give him the job with full power on everything basketball- that's great news. Anything less is same old Knicks and same old results.
1. Everything I've read suggests he wants to bring "some" of his own guys. Knowing the Knicks that will mean 1-2 guys added to the guys they already have. I'd be blown away if Houston and Mills are gone. I think you see 1-2 guys added to what is already an over crowded FO situation.
2. I'd be pretty shocked if they dumped Hornacek but presumably the leash isn't going to be that long. Tough spot for Hornacek.
Qi or hartenstein why are we making the move? For the right to pay Harkless or Leonard or whatever a bunch of money over the next few seasons. There has to be something enticing in the deal otherwise we might as well go back to considering a buyout or letting him play for this year and hope he opts out. Id rather buy him out then trade him for harkless. Id hold strong on Qi and hartenstein. Tell HOU we will buy him out otherwise and then they miss out cause he will go to CLE.
is NBA ready or close to it. Hartenstein has some back concerns/makeup concerns but I need AT least one for this to be a decent deal. Both are talented.
if HOU doesnt want to deal him then we dont trade them Melo. Im not expecting a good deal, but again if we arent getting at least some sort of prospect then why do we make the deal. It would be one thing if we are dumping the salary, but we will need to take back a pretty similar amount (and most likely longer deals) so we arent even getting capspace. So we are trading Melo for longer contracts on crappier players just so we can hope we suck more and get a better pick.
I'm quite sure you hear things in your head all the time, so I would definitely believe you are hearing that.
Lee is a dead end for the Knicks.
okafor was the 2 pick just 2 years ago, highly touted as a potential franchise player. Averaged 17 ppg as a rookie. He has size you can't teach.
He obviously regressed a bit last year, but still got 11 ppg as a second year player.
The kid is just 21 years old and has Duke pedigree.
To me, this exactly the type of move the Knicks should go for. A good risk.
Lee is a dead end for the Knicks.
okafor was the 2 pick just 2 years ago, highly touted as a potential franchise player. Averaged 17 ppg as a rookie. He has size you can't teach.
He obviously regressed a bit last year, but still got 11 ppg as a second year player.
I so agree. Tell that to that putz Sgrets
The kid is just 21 years old and has Duke pedigree.
To me, this exactly the type of move the Knicks should go for. A good risk.
Yeah I don't know the exact players. The guy I talked to said he's hearing what the players will be, but doesn't want to be wrong and look like a jackass. He did say it will be a pretty disappointing package for the Knicks.
You already have a guy who has similar skills next to KP but is a far far better rebounder(and similar defensive limitations).
Griffin, the ex-Cleveland Cavaliers GM, traveled to New York this weekend to meet with Mills, with whom Griffin has continued to discuss the shaping of a potential Knicks partnership.
Griffin is also expected to meet with owner James Dolan in the near future, league sources said."
dolan is not leading the search, they have a consultant doing that
west actually recommended griffin to the knicks
Quote:
I wish we'd have gotten Jerry West as our consultant, though. I'd have loved to have him involved with the Knicks...he actually always knows what he's doing.
west actually recommended griffin to the knicks
True. I just wish he'd be a part of our FO.
Besides, doesn't everyone NOT want Dolan involved?
Unless Mills knows he's pretty much a lock to be president and hiring underneath him (gm only).
I just want to get this straight. People are concerned that nobody would be hired and this would be on Mills. Most felt someone other than Mills should have been making the decision on any basketball decisions. So, if true, and Mills is now the new team president people are okay with that if Griffin is brought in as the GM, a position that concedes to the President?
Either way, I don't like how this is being run. Imo, either the owner hires the President and is instrumental in that process with the help of the consultant or Mills is the President. I just disagree with the way either situation would turn out.
I just want to get this straight. People are concerned that nobody would be hired and this would be on Mills. Most felt someone other than Mills should have been making the decision on any basketball decisions. So, if true, and Mills is now the new team president people are okay with that if Griffin is brought in as the GM, a position that concedes to the President?
Either way, I don't like how this is being run. Imo, either the owner hires the President and is instrumental in that process with the help of the consultant or Mills is the President. I just disagree with the way either situation would turn out.
I agree w/you but it seems the alternative would be Mills as Pres/GM. At least w/Griffin as GM, there would be a voice w/NBA GM experience to counterbalance Mills. Whether Mills lets Griffin actually do his job when Mills disagrees is still to be seen!
I just want to get this straight. People are concerned that nobody would be hired and this would be on Mills. Most felt someone other than Mills should have been making the decision on any basketball decisions. So, if true, and Mills is now the new team president people are okay with that if Griffin is brought in as the GM, a position that concedes to the President?
Either way, I don't like how this is being run. Imo, either the owner hires the President and is instrumental in that process with the help of the consultant or Mills is the President. I just disagree with the way either situation would turn out.
It really depends on whether or not they give the GM power over personal decisions. If Mills deals more with organizational and contract matters and leaves the GM alone it could work fine, but that is the big if.
woj made mention though that griffin will not take job unless he can bring in his own guys
It's hard to liken this to the Giants, but the role of a team president isn't to make roster moves. It's to hire the person that does.
Hopefully he wouldn't stand for it.
Phil only brought one person with him, but I remember him wanting to make other changes and that seemingly going nowhere.
It's hard to liken this to the Giants, but the role of a team president isn't to make roster moves. It's to hire the person that does.
That would be nice and makes sense if it was any team other than the Knicks. The thing that is truly worrisome is in basketball more than any other sport is that one wrong move can set you back like 4+ years. Take the Noah contract for example. That is something that is near impossible to move and the only true way to fix it is just to let it expire. That is what I worry about with THJ. People keep looking at the brightside. I get it. But with any investment you have to look at the good and the bad. What is the downside? The downside is that he doesn't live up to the contract and the 15% trade kicker makes it near impossible to trade. So, when making a bet it is alwags wiser to play the field. There are many more things that could go wrong with that deal than the positive part that some are focusing on.
People also focus on the youth aspect. That is nice but just reading people say we are young so it is great. To me that is like saying that I have a car that rides smooth. That is nice but if it keeps breaking down, or the gas mileage is like 10 miles to the gallon, or it is leaking oil, etc. then it doesn't make much sense. Yes, a youth movement is nice. There is nothing wrong with it. All I am saying is that being young is just one of many factors that should be analyzed.
Yup. The first warning sign of the Jackson regime was the continued presence of Mills and Houston. If those two stick around, so be it, but we need some fresh blood, too.
Quote:
to failure.
Yup. The first warning sign of the Jackson regime was the continued presence of Mills and Houston. If those two stick around, so be it, but we need some fresh blood, too.
woj made it sound like griffin wont take the job unless he can bring in his own guys...
also if the structure is business mills and all basketball is griffin that is fine...
a lot of teams operate that way
Griffin is part of long line of GM/Presidents that were going to be allowed to run the basketball part of the business untouched.
Dolan will screw it up...
Griffin is also expected to meet with owner James Dolan in the near future, league sources said."
I can imagine how that meeting will go.
Griffin:"It's an honor to meet you Mr. Dol.."
Dolan"Do you like great music?"
Griffin:"Um yeah I guess so but I don't see what this has to do wi.."
Dolan "Have you ever seen my band perform?":
Griffin " No sir I have not."
Dolan: "This interview is over! Get out of my office!"
1. Everything I've read suggests he wants to bring "some" of his own guys. Knowing the Knicks that will mean 1-2 guys added to the guys they already have. I'd be blown away if Houston and Mills are gone. I think you see 1-2 guys added to what is already an over crowded FO situation.
2. I'd be pretty shocked if they dumped Hornacek but presumably the leash isn't going to be that long. Tough spot for Hornacek.
Give me an Ewing moment and add Porter..
Porter, Porz and Willy in the front court.
Frank and THJ
and yes allow a man to dream...
Give me an Ewing moment and add Porter..
Porter, Porz and Willy in the front court.
Frank and THJ
and yes allow a man to dream...
This is the Knicks we are talking about. There are no dreams only nightmares.
As DMM said Qi has to be part of the deal for me. Hopefully they can expand this to a 3 team trade that includes an expiring contract or two.