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2008: What if Osi stayed healthy?

Sonic Youth : 7/8/2017 3:36 pm
If Osi stayed healthy, do the Giants weather the Plaxico injury? The D ran out of steam at the end of the season, I figure that he would have helped.

if Plax AND Osi stay healthy, how strongly do you feel the Giants could have gone 15-1 or 16-0?
If Osi had a probowl type year and Plax hadn't shot himself  
SGMen : 7/8/2017 3:38 pm : link
I think it is a safe bet to say we make and win the SB. We got dinged late and then the shot so it is hard to say but AZ was NOT all that so I would have liked our chances to repeat for sure.
the 1 loss pre-plax  
bLiTz 2k : 7/8/2017 3:40 pm : link
was to Cleveland. God I remember that game like yesterday...honestly the Giants just didn't show up even if Osi was on the field.

Also, don't forget we lost Pierce I think vs Washington which in retrospect was a pretty bad loss as well.

I go back and forth all the time, but honestly the way the defense was playing late that year has me on the fence that they didn't have the gas to make it.
If Plax doesn't shoot himself  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/8/2017 3:56 pm : link
I'm convinced they go back to the Super Bowl.
Not sure about overall record  
SLIM_ : 7/8/2017 3:58 pm : link
but I'm very confident that they win the Super Bowl. That team early in the year was playing lights out defense and had a dominant running game. People forget that Plax was really a no show for the year and was having a terrible year. He did take the top of defenses when he was playing though.

Tuck was having a defensive MVP type season but he ran out of gas. Kiwi if people remember had a high ankle sprain when he got cheap shot in garbage time the 1st game of the year agains the Skins. If they had another pass rusher even if not dominant, they wouldn't have gotten as worn down as they did.

By the end of the year, the defense couldn't make stops. Sure Eli had a bad game against the Eagles but they were moving the ball fairly well. They just had to settle for field goal tries (I think they missed 2).

People forget how dominant that team was. When healthy, the Giants beat all 4 conference championship teams. The Eagles were probably the worst matchup they could've gotten in the divisional round and they had beaten the Eagles fairly easily earlier in the year.

I don't even think the season came down to the 1 injury but more 1 play. The Eagles season was on the ropes and if we beat them in the 2nd game, it would have been over. We would've clinched the division early and I think Coughlin was smart enough where he would have rested some players. Early in the game Hixon (replacing Plax) had gotten deep and Eli put the ball right on the money. That would've been the dagger through the heart. Hixon drops it...

Eagles go onto win that game and then we lose the next week in Dallas. We then have to go all out in that exciting game against Carolina that went to OT to secure both the division and home field. We rest some starters in Minnesota but we expended way too much energy down the stretch on defense and never recovered.

It pissed me off thinking about that year. It was the best team of the Eli era.
I think Plax being around would have kept many drives  
Big Blue '56 : 7/8/2017 4:00 pm : link
alive and the D would not have been as gassed the final 4 games and against Philly in our house during the playoffs..Osi being around would have greatly(?) mitigated the fatigue down the stretch as well, imv..

Still, the loss of Plax was the major reason for the non-repeat, imo
RE: I think Plax being around would have kept many drives  
SGMen : 7/8/2017 4:13 pm : link
In comment 13523207 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
alive and the D would not have been as gassed the final 4 games and against Philly in our house during the playoffs..Osi being around would have greatly(?) mitigated the fatigue down the stretch as well, imv..

Still, the loss of Plax was the major reason for the non-repeat, imo
BB'56, I concur losing Plax was the key blow. But it is how we lost him that counts too: a stupid gunshot. The lockerroom had to be "off" with media hype and whispers of what happened.

SLIM, 2008 was the best team of the Eli Manning era. But 2017 may just surprise....
When Osi went down, the D line was destined...  
MOOPS : 7/8/2017 5:14 pm : link
to run out of gas later in the season. The Front Office knew that. Exactly the reason they asked Strahan to come back before the start of the season. By the way, I took a lot of heat here suggesting they would do that.
Plax was the nail in the coffin, but even with Plax the D was too thin to get to the Super Bowl, IMO.
Too much guesswork to say for sure  
Overseer : 7/8/2017 5:31 pm : link
Likely they get to the Super Bowl, but that was a very good Steelers team even though, as Flounder reminds in his infamous video, NYG "beat their asses" already in a classic regular season matchup.

James Harrison's 2008 is arguably the single greatest season by a defensive player since LT or Reggie. A absolute game-changing animal who was all over the field.

To be honest, 2011 made me totally not give a shit about "what could have been" in 08. Totally wiped away the sour taste in my mouth.

Also, that Cardinals Eagles game was about as entertained as I have ever been by a non-Giants football game. Holy fuck was it fun watching Philly lose. I got so shitfaced during that game.

Could be and should be  
PaulN : 7/8/2017 5:44 pm : link
But let's be honest, that was the Giants best team in the Coughlin era. They beat the Super bowl winner and loser in their buildings that season. I also think Pierce was banged up and Coefield also. had they stayed healthy, I absolutely am convinced they would have won it all that year, they were clearly the best team.
I agree 11 made everything forgivable  
Sonic Youth : 7/8/2017 5:48 pm : link
Esp when you consider 11 doesn't happen if they repeat in 07 and 08.

Having said that, I should have phrased the discussion points more succinctly:

1) Is Osi's presence enough to overcome Plax's loss?

2) What is the upper boundary on the 08 squad in terms of GOAT teams if they had Plax AND Osi.

I know Plax wasn't having a great year, but he still demanded double coverage, and Toomer turned into a shell that year.
As for the Eagle playoff loss,  
Doomster : 7/8/2017 5:53 pm : link
They played half a game against the Vikings, and then had a bye week.....they were not gassed when they played the Eagles....they gave up one td drive in that game.....it was the offense that sucked......
But having Osi and Plax?  
Doomster : 7/8/2017 5:55 pm : link
Shoot, perchance to dream......would have a had an excellent chance for back to back....
RE: As for the Eagle playoff loss,  
Big Blue '56 : 7/8/2017 6:49 pm : link
In comment 13523300 Doomster said:
Quote:
They played half a game against the Vikings, and then had a bye week.....they were not gassed when they played the Eagles....they gave up one td drive in that game.....it was the offense that sucked......


Perhaps more injured than gassed..And yes, the O shit the bed, but that 3rd and 18(?) first down by McNabb deep n his own territory was the biggest failure..Inexcusable lapse/failure by the D
RE: RE: As for the Eagle playoff loss,  
SGMen : 7/8/2017 7:21 pm : link
In comment 13523349 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13523300 Doomster said:


Quote:


They played half a game against the Vikings, and then had a bye week.....they were not gassed when they played the Eagles....they gave up one td drive in that game.....it was the offense that sucked......



Perhaps more injured than gassed..And yes, the O shit the bed, but that 3rd and 18(?) first down by McNabb deep n his own territory was the biggest failure..Inexcusable lapse/failure by the D
I recall reading post-season that the players said they didn't have time to re-adjust the offense afer Plax went down. Really sucky blow, stupid move by Plax.
That season was painful  
giantgiantfan : 7/9/2017 4:37 am : link
but two improbable SB victories does ease that pain a lot.
Various  
SLIM_ : 7/9/2017 8:50 am : link
SGMen - I like your thinking.

Moops - Spot on. In season trades are hard but I saw what you saw. We should've gotten another body at the deadline. The name escapes me now but there was a very solid veteran defensive tackle/end on a bad team that I kept thinking that they should've gone out and traded for.

Another guy (since people are speaking of Plax) would have been Tony Gonzalez. As I said, Plax was screwed up from the beginning and another said Toomer was basically done. Boss had a nice sophomore year but with Jacobs/Ward and double tight sets with Gonzalez/Boss, we win going away as we have the fire power and can add more time of possession to prevent the defense from wearing down.

2007 and 2011 were great and both were surprises if you were making predictions in late November but that one still pisses me off. You only get so many opportunities and that was there for the taking.
RE: When Osi went down, the D line was destined...  
LauderdaleMatty : 7/9/2017 9:02 am : link
In comment 13523257 MOOPS said:
Quote:
to run out of gas later in the season. The Front Office knew that. Exactly the reason they asked Strahan to come back before the start of the season. By the way, I took a lot of heat here suggesting they would do that.
Plax was the nail in the coffin, but even with Plax the D was too thin to get to the Super Bowl, IMO.


The loss of Strahan's leadership hurt for sure. Osi while a great player wasn't Stray. If the Plax thing had happened w Stray maybe and that's a maybe it wouldn't have hurt so much. Think he made the right decision as his career is insane right now but what could have been.

But then no OBJ etc. can't live in the past too much
Hixon  
PaulN : 7/9/2017 9:02 am : link
Dropped that sure TD pass and the rest of the game the offense was bad, plain and simple. Plax killed the Eagles, remember that.
RE: Hixon  
SGMen : 7/9/2017 9:52 am : link
In comment 13523552 PaulN said:
Quote:
Dropped that sure TD pass and the rest of the game the offense was bad, plain and simple. Plax killed the Eagles, remember that.
The Hixon drop killed for sure. The 3rd and 18 conversion the Eagles nailed killed.

You just got the sense the Giants had lost their confidence due to injuries and te "shot heard all around Giants stadium" which had to hurt the lockerroom as much as the playing field.
Killer injury rately talked about  
area junc : 7/9/2017 4:25 pm : link
IMO (of course after Strahan retired) Osi was the best DE in the NFL when he got hurt. He had hit an almost unstoppable level of play. Still remember him abusing Joe Thomas and Jordan Gross that preseason before going down vs the Jets. It was easy.
Also remember  
area junc : 7/9/2017 4:27 pm : link
that was the beginning of the end for Antonio 'Fierce' Pierce, who was in the thick of the Plax investigation after helping him get home. That had to be a major distraction for him.
No.  
BlackburnBalledOut : 7/9/2017 5:30 pm : link
.
The D  
BlackburnBalledOut : 7/9/2017 5:34 pm : link
ran out of steam bc the offense struggled w/o plax...despite having two 1,000 yard rushers the offense was hampered w/o plax. An aging Toomer and an overrated Smith couldnt sniff the production Buress provided. Defense wore out bc teams started stacking the box and challenged toomer and smith to get open. They couldnt, so drives didnt sustain and the offense became somewhat one dimensional.


2008 was the best Giants team I've ever seen. Funny how that works out.
RE: Too much guesswork to say for sure  
FStubbs : 7/9/2017 8:41 pm : link
In comment 13523275 Overseer said:
Quote:
Likely they get to the Super Bowl, but that was a very good Steelers team even though, as Flounder reminds in his infamous video, NYG "beat their asses" already in a classic regular season matchup.

James Harrison's 2008 is arguably the single greatest season by a defensive player since LT or Reggie. A absolute game-changing animal who was all over the field.

To be honest, 2011 made me totally not give a shit about "what could have been" in 08. Totally wiped away the sour taste in my mouth.

Also, that Cardinals Eagles game was about as entertained as I have ever been by a non-Giants football game. Holy fuck was it fun watching Philly lose. I got so shitfaced during that game.


Yep, 2011 took away a lot of the pain. But man, those first 11-12 games were some of the most dominant football I've ever seen out of the Giants. If that team hadn't lost Plaxico it would've gone down as one of the undisputed all time greatest teams in NFL history.
.....  
Route 9 : 7/9/2017 9:04 pm : link
That 2008 season, loved it. My life well, personally wasnít the best thing in the world. Seeing the Giants at 11-1 was just something that was unbelievable. Iíll never forget that time as long as I live.

2008, just seems like it was just yesterday and its just impossible to believe that stuff I remember clear as day was close to10 years ago.

Everything about that loss to Philly in January of 2009 was on the offense. The defense wasnít picture perfect but Eli was awful, and minus Burress there was nowhere to throw the ball. They stunk despite the opening kickoff Bradshaw return to start the game.
RE: As for the Eagle playoff loss,  
WillVAB : 7/9/2017 10:28 pm : link
In comment 13523300 Doomster said:
Quote:
They played half a game against the Vikings, and then had a bye week.....they were not gassed when they played the Eagles....they gave up one td drive in that game.....it was the offense that sucked......


This.

Osi changes nothing. They were the. NUmber one overall seed and the defense played fine vs the eagles.

The offense simply couldn't make up for the loss of Plax.
Why did it have to be the fucking Eagles though?  
Route 9 : 7/10/2017 3:38 am : link
For fucks sake. They needed 3 teams to lose in week 17, got them all to lose and they needed a win, got in. Beat Minnesota or whoever, McNabb does that stupid ass fucking dance on the sidelines when the "intercepted" the pass on the sidelines as Buck and Aikman practically fuck each other over him dancing like an asshole.

They get the Giants, without the guy who killed them since he got to the team and have been a royal pain in the ass to the Giants ever since, no matter how much they sucked.

But Kurt Warners Cardinals sending those cock-suckers packing was a thing was wonderfulness!!
Lost ring I would say but  
Jimmy Googs : 7/10/2017 5:06 am : link
it's not like football gods didn't help us out a bit as well in other years...
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