from being relevant. They will be terrible in 2017 and get a top pick for 2018 which will go to Boston. The Nets will be terrible again in 2018 and should get a good pick in 2019. You hope whoever they draft in 2019 hits and they should get another good pick in 2020. They better hope they hit on those 2 and hope that in 2021 they are relevant. In between now and then, they aren't getting any real superstars to sign there.
are not horrible. You would think you could spin them to someone for some youth, a euro stash, 2nd rounders, etc... They arent bad players and with contracts getting absurd they really dont make that much. Plus they are expirings.
RE: I used to say set your expectations at the bare minimum
metrics like Big Walter (in admitted VERY limited minutes), he played well in the Dleague 11 and 7 with 3 blocks and he's 25 years old and 7'3 so even if he's just a huge slug we could do worse. Link - ( New Window )
I don't mind that we didn't end up with Griffin as the GM, it is hard to evaluate the job that he did in Cleveland because so much of it revolved around Lebron. If Lebron doesn't return to the Cavs then who knows what would have happened there.
The issue is that this is the sign of a bigger problem. Either they weren't all that enamored with Griffin, which if that's the case why get as far into the process as they did, or Mills is seizing this opportunity to make a serious power play and we aren't going to be able to find a GM with any type of track record that is going to agree to coming in to answer to Steve Mills.
At this point we might be better off just letting Mills and Houston run the show, and if they fail then we can finally be rid of them and start to see real change. Who knows, maybe Mills will surprise us and do a good job. He has taken a lot of heat because of his close connection to Dolan, but we really don't know what type of job he will do as the head executive. He had a short stint before Phil arrived where he basically didn't do anything of note for 6 months. He was the one in charge when we almost dealt Shumpert and spare parts to Toronto for Lowry, which would have been a great move, but then Dolan vetoed it at the last second.
Even with the Hardaway contract, which I don't think is as terrible as others have made it seem, if we can walk away from this offseason with a new core of a PG, SG, PF, and C all under the age of 25 while also having gotten rid of Carmelo and Derrick Rose, then I would rate the offseason as a success. We now at least have a young nucleus with all of our draft picks going forward, and a roster that while filled with potential, isn't going to win shit this year and should put us in the top 5-6 picks in next years draft.
Make them give Gordon, who will go to a 3rd team to get assets back for NYK. Or no Melo. Stop trying to come up with ways to get Melo on to other teams for no pain.
The only reason I'd just dump Melo is if they intended to tank, and I dont believe that they have that intent. I think they'll put Melo's money back into vets who will help this team win an extra 5-10 games.
sounds like an awful plan (no offense). Let them fail and hope Dolan cans them? He's kept Zeke around off and on for over a decade. The one thing you have to give Dolan "credit" for is he's beyond loyal to his guys. The Knicks have been a disaster for years now and yet guys like Houston and Mills have kept their jobs. Dolan isn't firing either one of them for "not winning".
Why is that jsports guy used as a valid source so often. All he did was tweet that melo is going to the rockets. He's got a 50/50 shot of it happening. Everyone already knows that it's either cavs or rockets and there's been nothing going on as of late with the cavs so he tweets. Melo to the rockets and gives absolutely zero details. What makes him better than incarcerated bob
really clear why we should believe this guy but the guy linked claims the Knicks will be getting Harkness and a #1 (again I don't believe him even 1% but people are retweeting him) Link - ( New Window )
Why is that jsports guy used as a valid source so often. All he did was tweet that melo is going to the rockets. He's got a 50/50 shot of it happening. Everyone already knows that it's either cavs or rockets and there's been nothing going on as of late with the cavs so he tweets. Melo to the rockets and gives absolutely zero details. What makes him better than incarcerated bob
really clear why we should believe this guy but the guy linked claims the Knicks will be getting Harkness and a #1 (again I don't believe him even 1% but people are retweeting him) Link - ( New Window )
really clear why we should believe this guy but the guy linked claims the Knicks will be getting Harkness and a #1 (again I don't believe him even 1% but people are retweeting him) Link - ( New Window )
Wrong link
No that's his website which is why I linked it. He said exactly what I said, that Melo was going to Houston and the Knicks were getting Harkness and a 1st.
Steven Tsakanikas @SteveTsak 19m19 minutes ago
More
Replying to @SteveTsak
Update: I'm told it's a 3-team deal involving Portland and that Moe Harkless and a 1st rounder are headed to NY in the trade.
Not watching, but apparently Begley reported on SportsCenter
that Dolan is open to a new guy and Mills is trying to prove that a new guy isn't needed. This is indeed a Steve Mills power play. Dolan should channel Leo from "Miller's Crossing" and tell him to take his flunkie (Allan Houston) and dangle.
RE: Not watching, but apparently Begley reported on SportsCenter
that Dolan is open to a new guy and Mills is trying to prove that a new guy isn't needed. This is indeed a Steve Mills power play. Dolan should channel Leo from "Miller's Crossing" and tell him to take his flunkie (Allan Houston) and dangle.
Well who is the fucking boss.
Show some balls for a change Jimmy
RE: RE: Not watching, but apparently Begley reported on SportsCenter
that Dolan is open to a new guy and Mills is trying to prove that a new guy isn't needed. This is indeed a Steve Mills power play. Dolan should channel Leo from "Miller's Crossing" and tell him to take his flunkie (Allan Houston) and dangle.
Well who is the fucking boss.
Show some balls for a change Jimmy
Based on the Phil firing press release, Dolan wants it known that he's not really involved. Which opens a power vacuum for Mills, who knows that Dolan will want him to stay to look over things, rather than just turning everything over to an outsider.
if the consultant tells you 'hey, hire this guy' and you piss him off to the point where he removes himself from consideration?
This is why I'll never hold PJ 100% accountable for the mess he left. I highly doubt that he ever had full control with both Mills and Houston here. Given his half-in/half-out status, he probably had a great deal of control over basketball decisions but was undermined by the other two plenty.
RE: Not watching, but apparently Begley reported on SportsCenter
that Dolan is open to a new guy and Mills is trying to prove that a new guy isn't needed. This is indeed a Steve Mills power play. Dolan should channel Leo from "Miller's Crossing" and tell him to take his flunkie (Allan Houston) and dangle.
what's odd is that Mills met with Griffin - which seems to indicate Mills is part of the hiring process for either his replacement or his own boss or his own employee. It's a fucking mess.
and was willing to give Mills and Houston something to do. Kudos to Griffin for understanding it may be career suicide. He's a young-ish guy with plenty of opportunities left.
pulling his name has worked out rather well for him. The media is praising him and laughing at the knicks(righfully so). Griffin has come out of this with his name looking better than it was.
none. They could have a good year here and there like the 54 win season from a few seasons back but there will never be any sustained run of greatness or even consistent play. Nothing grows here. Nothing will ever grow here. Just sad. I am the eternal optimist with my teams but always color things with realistic tones. I can't take this franchise anymore.
Yet another indication that Dolan is the root of the Knicks' problems
they need to get a 1st rounder out of it but not next years they should look for an unprotected 2020-2022 1st rounder when some the stars on either team begin to rapidly decline similar to what Boston did with the Nets.
and was willing to give Mills and Houston something to do. Kudos to Griffin for understanding it may be career suicide. He's a young-ish guy with plenty of opportunities left.
Yeah I think Mills reported to Phil on all basketball stuff. An old fart like Phil could use a guy like Mills to run the scouts, do initial trade calls etc. I dont think Mills or Dolan really stood in Phil's way on basketball stuff, until the very end with Melo/KP. Though it would be interesting to know whether Rose and Noah were 100% Phil's doing, or whether there was some ownership pressure on those deals.
This seems like a different situation with Phil out. Sounds like Mills wants to be (or just will be) the boss of who they bring in.
and was willing to give Mills and Houston something to do. Kudos to Griffin for understanding it may be career suicide. He's a young-ish guy with plenty of opportunities left.
Yeah I think Mills reported to Phil on all basketball stuff. An old fart like Phil could use a guy like Mills to run the scouts, do initial trade calls etc. I dont think Mills or Dolan really stood in Phil's way on basketball stuff, until the very end with Melo/KP. Though it would be interesting to know whether Rose and Noah were 100% Phil's doing, or whether there was some ownership pressure on those deals.
This seems like a different situation with Phil out. Sounds like Mills wants to be (or just will be) the boss of who they bring in.
You know how this works, though. There's different types of interference/getting in the way.
One is having authority as an approver. I highly doubt Mills ever jumped in and said 'I don't want to do this'.
The other is by having direct or indirect control over staff. Who knows how many times Jackson's directions or information going up to him were altered by Mills being in the chain.
Someone needed to go in and purge MSG of all it's MSG-ness. That's not happening with Mills and Houston there. Yes, this is all Dolan's doing, no question. But you can't say 'hey, Dolan's been hands off, look at the Rangers' when Mills and Houston remain long time constants there. If he's really going to be hands off, it means that organization has to be swept clean and new blood brought in, with the autonomy to make decisions for good or bad.
Griffin saw and recognized that, and wanted no part of MSG once it was clear they had no intentions of changing their SOP.
How they are a successful franchise while the Knicks arent?
What has Dolan done, or not done with the Rangers that allows them to be successful, while the Knicks continue to suck?
I dont think Dolan was ever hands on with the Rangers... You dont hear much of anything with Dolan and Hockey... Seems to me that he is leaning that way towards the basketball end of it now, but he built up too many loyal friends in the process and wont cut bait now.
He's 5 years in and seems to have settled into a career that shows he is a solid defender, average finisher and below average statistical performer in other areas i.e. passing, perimeter shooting.
Do you agree with this thumbnail sketch?
Is he regarded as a good locker room guy? Decent bball IQ?
If given the choice, do you think Al Farooq Aminu is the better player to target?
And we have to watch a bag of shit team, everyone will then wish we had him back (or someone who can score). Yes Mo qualifies as a bag of shit. Late 1st rounders suck as some of you argue #8 shouldn't play over Sasha or Baker. And yes to the above poster, the Nets will be better faster.
And we have to watch a bag of shit team, everyone will then wish we had him back (or someone who can score). Yes Mo qualifies as a bag of shit. Late 1st rounders suck as some of you argue #8 shouldn't play over Sasha or Baker. And yes to the above poster, the Nets will be better faster.
And we have to watch a bag of shit team, everyone will then wish we had him back (or someone who can score). Yes Mo qualifies as a bag of shit. Late 1st rounders suck as some of you argue #8 shouldn't play over Sasha or Baker. And yes to the above poster, the Nets will be better faster.
or they suck get a top pick and add more to their young team...
Dolan just stays out of the Rangers' affairs. That's why they've been free of the Jimmy D stench that has been all over the Knicks for what feels like forever now.
I don't think Dolan really cares about hockey at all - it's the Knicks that are his baby. The Rangers are just like that step child he doesn't really care about - which is obviously great for the Rangers.
RE: RE: Are the Knicks the worst organization in professional sports history?
Dolan just stays out of the Rangers' affairs. That's why they've been free of the Jimmy D stench that has been all over the Knicks for what feels like forever now.
I don't think Dolan really cares about hockey at all - it's the Knicks that are his baby. The Rangers are just like that step child he doesn't really care about - which is obviously great for the Rangers.
Exactly. Unfortunately for Knicks fans, Dolan likes basketball.
How they are a successful franchise while the Knicks arent?
What has Dolan done, or not done with the Rangers that allows them to be successful, while the Knicks continue to suck?
Sather was in place much earlier in Dolan's tenure. Sather and Phil are both huge, winning names, and I think both got total deference from Dolan. Sather had executive experience and also never picked fights in public like Phil did this year. So he got a lot more rope. After a few years and the institution of a salary cap, Sather realized that you cant spend your way to contention. I think Phil was getting to the same place by the way. Big differences as I see it:
1) Sather had more room to grow into the job due to a more forgiving fan/media environment, plus he had extensive experience and was probably just a better exec than Phil. But in any event, by being there and stabilizing early in Dolan's tenure, Sather wasnt saddled with the hangers like Mills and Zeke and Houston;
2) It's easier to be a successful NHL exec IMO.
3) The Rangers drafted the best goalie of his generation in the 7th round in 2001, and he kept them competitive and selling tickets through the rough spots, i.e. when the Rangers had little talent. Imagine if Phil were here at a time when KP played like a top 10 player (occasional MVP candidate) and there was no risk that he'd leave -- Phil would have Sather's job security.
4) Sather did not see his job as an opportunity to prove that he was right about something (e.g. the Triangle). Indeed, he made several big adjustments. First, he came over believing that MSG's unlimited resources would let him buy a title team, and he adjusted when it didnt work and a cap came in. Second, he canned a successful coach in Torts when he observed that the more successful teams were playing a more open, offensive, speedy style.
There are other issues, but those are the biggies.
Congrats to the Nets from going to 30 to 29.
I don't think the bare minimum gets it done anymore. Whatever happens here, you know it's going to be bad.
They keep lowering the bar on "bare minimum".
Link - ( New Window )
The issue is that this is the sign of a bigger problem. Either they weren't all that enamored with Griffin, which if that's the case why get as far into the process as they did, or Mills is seizing this opportunity to make a serious power play and we aren't going to be able to find a GM with any type of track record that is going to agree to coming in to answer to Steve Mills.
At this point we might be better off just letting Mills and Houston run the show, and if they fail then we can finally be rid of them and start to see real change. Who knows, maybe Mills will surprise us and do a good job. He has taken a lot of heat because of his close connection to Dolan, but we really don't know what type of job he will do as the head executive. He had a short stint before Phil arrived where he basically didn't do anything of note for 6 months. He was the one in charge when we almost dealt Shumpert and spare parts to Toronto for Lowry, which would have been a great move, but then Dolan vetoed it at the last second.
Even with the Hardaway contract, which I don't think is as terrible as others have made it seem, if we can walk away from this offseason with a new core of a PG, SG, PF, and C all under the age of 25 while also having gotten rid of Carmelo and Derrick Rose, then I would rate the offseason as a success. We now at least have a young nucleus with all of our draft picks going forward, and a roster that while filled with potential, isn't going to win shit this year and should put us in the top 5-6 picks in next years draft.
The only reason I'd just dump Melo is if they intended to tank, and I dont believe that they have that intent. I think they'll put Melo's money back into vets who will help this team win an extra 5-10 games.
Quote:
In comment 13524099 TommyWiseau said:
Quote:
In comment 13524095 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
houston and knicks looking for 3rd team to take anderson, says still being told melo will be a rocket...
my guess knicks told melo that they are working with houston and will get a deal done...
rockets told harden and paul that they will get houston...
knicks told lee they will not trade him because they are trading melo to houston (jsports) source
Give me Qi or no deal
i dont think you are getting qi, maybe hartenstein and picks but not qi...
Then keep Melo and let him ride the pine. We don't HAVE to trade him
Qi just signed last week and can't be traded for a month.
Knicks get
Crabbe or Turner and Ariza
Houston gets
Anthony and Ezeli
Portland gets
Anderson.
Trade machine - ( New Window )
Link - ( New Window )
He's been 100% accurate in the past.
Wrong link
Quote:
really clear why we should believe this guy but the guy linked claims the Knicks will be getting Harkness and a #1 (again I don't believe him even 1% but people are retweeting him) Link - ( New Window )
Wrong link
No that's his website which is why I linked it. He said exactly what I said, that Melo was going to Houston and the Knicks were getting Harkness and a 1st.
Steven Tsakanikas @SteveTsak 19m19 minutes ago
More
Replying to @SteveTsak
Update: I'm told it's a 3-team deal involving Portland and that Moe Harkless and a 1st rounder are headed to NY in the trade.
Well who is the fucking boss.
Show some balls for a change Jimmy
Quote:
that Dolan is open to a new guy and Mills is trying to prove that a new guy isn't needed. This is indeed a Steve Mills power play. Dolan should channel Leo from "Miller's Crossing" and tell him to take his flunkie (Allan Houston) and dangle.
Well who is the fucking boss.
Show some balls for a change Jimmy
Based on the Phil firing press release, Dolan wants it known that he's not really involved. Which opens a power vacuum for Mills, who knows that Dolan will want him to stay to look over things, rather than just turning everything over to an outsider.
This is why I'll never hold PJ 100% accountable for the mess he left. I highly doubt that he ever had full control with both Mills and Houston here. Given his half-in/half-out status, he probably had a great deal of control over basketball decisions but was undermined by the other two plenty.
what's odd is that Mills met with Griffin - which seems to indicate Mills is part of the hiring process for either his replacement or his own boss or his own employee. It's a fucking mess.
This is also true - not fair of me to call what PJ left a mess, although I don't think dysfunction covers it.
Yeah I think Mills reported to Phil on all basketball stuff. An old fart like Phil could use a guy like Mills to run the scouts, do initial trade calls etc. I dont think Mills or Dolan really stood in Phil's way on basketball stuff, until the very end with Melo/KP. Though it would be interesting to know whether Rose and Noah were 100% Phil's doing, or whether there was some ownership pressure on those deals.
This seems like a different situation with Phil out. Sounds like Mills wants to be (or just will be) the boss of who they bring in.
Quote:
In comment 13524101 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13524099 TommyWiseau said:
Quote:
In comment 13524095 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
houston and knicks looking for 3rd team to take anderson, says still being told melo will be a rocket...
my guess knicks told melo that they are working with houston and will get a deal done...
rockets told harden and paul that they will get houston...
knicks told lee they will not trade him because they are trading melo to houston (jsports) source
Give me Qi or no deal
i dont think you are getting qi, maybe hartenstein and picks but not qi...
Then keep Melo and let him ride the pine. We don't HAVE to trade him
Qi just signed last week and can't be traded for a month.
No one said Melo has to be traded today, wait the 3 weeks and get Qi in the deal
What has Dolan done, or not done with the Rangers that allows them to be successful, while the Knicks continue to suck?
Quote:
and was willing to give Mills and Houston something to do. Kudos to Griffin for understanding it may be career suicide. He's a young-ish guy with plenty of opportunities left.
Yeah I think Mills reported to Phil on all basketball stuff. An old fart like Phil could use a guy like Mills to run the scouts, do initial trade calls etc. I dont think Mills or Dolan really stood in Phil's way on basketball stuff, until the very end with Melo/KP. Though it would be interesting to know whether Rose and Noah were 100% Phil's doing, or whether there was some ownership pressure on those deals.
This seems like a different situation with Phil out. Sounds like Mills wants to be (or just will be) the boss of who they bring in.
You know how this works, though. There's different types of interference/getting in the way.
One is having authority as an approver. I highly doubt Mills ever jumped in and said 'I don't want to do this'.
The other is by having direct or indirect control over staff. Who knows how many times Jackson's directions or information going up to him were altered by Mills being in the chain.
Someone needed to go in and purge MSG of all it's MSG-ness. That's not happening with Mills and Houston there. Yes, this is all Dolan's doing, no question. But you can't say 'hey, Dolan's been hands off, look at the Rangers' when Mills and Houston remain long time constants there. If he's really going to be hands off, it means that organization has to be swept clean and new blood brought in, with the autonomy to make decisions for good or bad.
Griffin saw and recognized that, and wanted no part of MSG once it was clear they had no intentions of changing their SOP.
What has Dolan done, or not done with the Rangers that allows them to be successful, while the Knicks continue to suck?
I dont think Dolan was ever hands on with the Rangers... You dont hear much of anything with Dolan and Hockey... Seems to me that he is leaning that way towards the basketball end of it now, but he built up too many loyal friends in the process and wont cut bait now.
He's 5 years in and seems to have settled into a career that shows he is a solid defender, average finisher and below average statistical performer in other areas i.e. passing, perimeter shooting.
Do you agree with this thumbnail sketch?
Is he regarded as a good locker room guy? Decent bball IQ?
If given the choice, do you think Al Farooq Aminu is the better player to target?
What has Dolan done, or not done with the Rangers that allows them to be successful, while the Knicks continue to suck?
I think the issue is Dolan know's jack shit about hockey and probably knows just a little tiny bit about Basketball so he meddles in what he "knows"
What has Dolan done, or not done with the Rangers that allows them to be successful, while the Knicks continue to suck?
dolan hired sather and he didnt have to do anything..
Quote:
How they are a successful franchise while the Knicks arent?
What has Dolan done, or not done with the Rangers that allows them to be successful, while the Knicks continue to suck?
I think the issue is Dolan know's jack shit about hockey and probably knows just a little tiny bit about Basketball so he meddles in what he "knows"
no, they have sather hired and dolan does not have to do anything
Um no. No. And yeah, no.
What a terrible post.
or they suck get a top pick and add more to their young team...
I don't think Dolan really cares about hockey at all - it's the Knicks that are his baby. The Rangers are just like that step child he doesn't really care about - which is obviously great for the Rangers.
Quote:
Ever? In any sport?
They do have titles and all time greats and a playoff win in the current decade.. So the current iteration of the browns is still worse
It's harder to make the postseason in the NFL. The Knicks should be nuked from orbit.
I don't think Dolan really cares about hockey at all - it's the Knicks that are his baby. The Rangers are just like that step child he doesn't really care about - which is obviously great for the Rangers.
Exactly. Unfortunately for Knicks fans, Dolan likes basketball.
What has Dolan done, or not done with the Rangers that allows them to be successful, while the Knicks continue to suck?
Sather was in place much earlier in Dolan's tenure. Sather and Phil are both huge, winning names, and I think both got total deference from Dolan. Sather had executive experience and also never picked fights in public like Phil did this year. So he got a lot more rope. After a few years and the institution of a salary cap, Sather realized that you cant spend your way to contention. I think Phil was getting to the same place by the way. Big differences as I see it:
1) Sather had more room to grow into the job due to a more forgiving fan/media environment, plus he had extensive experience and was probably just a better exec than Phil. But in any event, by being there and stabilizing early in Dolan's tenure, Sather wasnt saddled with the hangers like Mills and Zeke and Houston;
2) It's easier to be a successful NHL exec IMO.
3) The Rangers drafted the best goalie of his generation in the 7th round in 2001, and he kept them competitive and selling tickets through the rough spots, i.e. when the Rangers had little talent. Imagine if Phil were here at a time when KP played like a top 10 player (occasional MVP candidate) and there was no risk that he'd leave -- Phil would have Sather's job security.
4) Sather did not see his job as an opportunity to prove that he was right about something (e.g. the Triangle). Indeed, he made several big adjustments. First, he came over believing that MSG's unlimited resources would let him buy a title team, and he adjusted when it didnt work and a cap came in. Second, he canned a successful coach in Torts when he observed that the more successful teams were playing a more open, offensive, speedy style.
There are other issues, but those are the biggies.