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NFT: Knicks chat 7/10-Melo expects to be traded...

Keith : 7/10/2017 7:29 am
Ian Begley: I’m told Carmelo Anthony is confident a deal with get done at this point with Houston. 2 hours ago – via YouTube


It appears as though the talk of a 3rd team has disappeared. This probably won't work out well for the Knicks.
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RE: RE: .  
Deej : 7/10/2017 11:41 am : link
In comment 13524264 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 13524259 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Dolan just stays out of the Rangers' affairs. That's why they've been free of the Jimmy D stench that has been all over the Knicks for what feels like forever now.

I don't think Dolan really cares about hockey at all - it's the Knicks that are his baby. The Rangers are just like that step child he doesn't really care about - which is obviously great for the Rangers.




Exactly. Unfortunately for Knicks fans, Dolan likes basketball.


Dolan likes hockey a lot too. If you believe him, he grew up more a Rangers fan than Knicks fan.
Rumor has it  
TommyWiseau : 7/10/2017 11:44 am : link
that Atlanta would have matched the THJ contract if it was around 4 years 62 to 65 mil. Who know's how true that is
RE: Rumor has it  
Deej : 7/10/2017 11:48 am : link
In comment 13524272 TommyWiseau said:
Quote:
that Atlanta would have matched the THJ contract if it was around 4 years 62 to 65 mil. Who know's how true that is


I believe it. I think we "overpaid" by a few million per season. Yeah, the great teams can get guys way below market value, but THJR's deal is pretty justifiable when compared to other young wings. We cant. We have to overpay a bit. I can live with that now. THJR's deal ends when KP's 6th season ends. That's the earliest I see us really having a shot to win a playoff round. I'd say we cant afford any overpays starting around Summer 2019 if we're on track. And if we are, we shouldnt need to overpay.
RE: Rumor has it  
Enzo : 7/10/2017 11:49 am : link
In comment 13524272 TommyWiseau said:
Quote:
that Atlanta would have matched the THJ contract if it was around 4 years 62 to 65 mil. Who know's how true that is

source?
With Jackson gone, who in the Knicks front office wants Melo traded?  
GeofromNJ : 7/10/2017 11:50 am : link
Does Mills want to make another big move to show the world who runs the team? Supposedly Dolan continues to be fond of Melo. And I find it hard to believe that Mills gives a crap what Hornacek thinks.
Do you take  
TommyWiseau : 7/10/2017 11:50 am : link
on Ryan Anderson's contract if you can land Capela and Qi or Hartenstein?
Rockets  
DanMetroMan : 7/10/2017 11:51 am : link
aren't giving up Capela.
sure id take anderson...  
Italianju : 7/10/2017 11:52 am : link
if we got Capela and Hartenstein, but HOU isnt trading capela. I think the question at this point is if you take on Anderson if you get Qi AND hartenstein. I dont think i do, but that is probably the right question at this point.
a couple of points regarding the Rangers  
Greg from LI : 7/10/2017 11:53 am : link
1)Prior to the 2004 lockout, Sather had been about as successful with the Rangers as PJax was with the Knicks. The Rangers were loaded with overpaid has-beens and washed up former stars in those days: Eric Lindros, Theoren Fleury, Bobby Holik, Darius Kasparitis, Stephane Quintal, etc etc etc. The lockout allowed a massive buyout of old contracts, cleared out a lot of the deadweight.

2)Prior to the salary cap coming on board post-lockout, they were able to pick up the disgruntled Jagr, who appeared to be declining, and his huge contract for pennies on the dollar. That proved to be an enormous boost as Jagr quickly proved that he was still a superstar by setting Rangers' single-season scoring records in 2005-06.

3)While I'm not a big Glen Sather fan, if you're going to have a crony, he's a damned sight better than Steve Mills and Allan Houston.
Capela  
brunswick : 7/10/2017 11:53 am : link
Is going nowhere...as said previously, their return for Melo will be so disappointing. Also, it wouldn't shock me if he winds up with Cavs.
RE: When Melo is gone  
Jim in Fairfax : 7/10/2017 11:55 am : link
In comment 13524248 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
And we have to watch a bag of shit team, everyone will then wish we had him back (or someone who can score). Yes Mo qualifies as a bag of shit. Late 1st rounders suck as some of you argue #8 shouldn't play over Sasha or Baker. And yes to the above poster, the Nets will be better faster.


We've had to watch a bag of shit team WITH Carmelo. So: no.
RE: RE: When Melo is gone  
Strahan91 : 7/10/2017 11:55 am : link
In comment 13524255 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13524248 Carl in CT said:


Quote:


And we have to watch a bag of shit team, everyone will then wish we had him back (or someone who can score). Yes Mo qualifies as a bag of shit. Late 1st rounders suck as some of you argue #8 shouldn't play over Sasha or Baker. And yes to the above poster, the Nets will be better faster.



or they suck get a top pick and add more to their young team...


This. The Nets are absolutely making better decisions than the Knicks but they'll need a lot to go right to overtake the Knicks in a few years time. The Knicks will have a high pick again to add to their stable of young guys with upside and Harkless is a 25 year old with the arrow pointing up. If he was a FA he'd be in high demand and he's on a very favorable contract (Leonard would cancel that out but I'm hoping he's not coming here). You also can't praise the Nets while trashing late first round picks. The best thing Marks has done is get picks in the 20's for taking on bad contracts. Russell was a good low risk/high reward move for a team in their position but he's certainly shown no signs of having KP's upside...If teams around the league believed he was likely to become anything more than a decent NBA player the Lakers would've gotten more for him even with Mozgov's deal.

The amazing thing about all this is-- other than dealing Melo, Mills and the rest of his stable of clowns literally don't have to do anything to turn this team around. Get Harkless and a late first for Melo and you have 5 guys 25 and under who can grow together and get a top 6 pick next year they can add to that. If they still suck in a year after doing nothing, you get to draft again in the top 6. This isn't rocket science yet still everyone (myself included) is totally petrified that they'll try and win now by signing Rondo, eventually dealing picks for vets or to shed salary to sign guys at prices they have no business paying. It's incredible how stupid they are. This is nothing but common sense and even the dumbest fans know this should be the plan (excluding the Melo fan club who believe they shouldn't deal him because he's better than what they'll get). I'd love for them to dump Lee somewhere although that might be asking too much.
Qi  
DanMetroMan : 7/10/2017 11:55 am : link
and Hartenstein aren't enough to take back Anderson (unless of course you have a deal lined up to spin Anderson). I think both are potential lottery tickets but neither one is even a guaranteed NBA contributor let alone star. Hartenstein was a mid-late 2nd rounder, teams likely could have had him for cash.
RE: RE: RE: .  
Greg from LI : 7/10/2017 11:59 am : link
In comment 13524266 Deej said:
Quote:
Dolan likes hockey a lot too. If you believe him, he grew up more a Rangers fan than Knicks fan.


Eh, he's said things like that but he's always been much more visible around the Knicks than the Rangers.
I'm not a Sather fan either  
Phil in LA : 7/10/2017 12:00 pm : link
But I think he has given a lot of power to Gorton, Gordie and the scouts and I think that's created a winning culture the Knicks have not approached in decades.
Winderman  
DanMetroMan : 7/10/2017 12:01 pm : link
thinks Miami may shop Tyler Johnson
Capela  
Deej : 7/10/2017 12:12 pm : link
I know he's a good player, and the advanced stats love him (21 PER, .184 WS48). But next offseason he's getting maxed. $25 million a year. Lets say in 30 minutes he's a 15/10/1.5 guy. Less of a PNR threat here with less of a lead guard. Foul rates suggest he possibly cant be a 35 minute a night center.

How excited is anyone here about maxing Capela? I'd happily do it if I was already a title competitor. But if your pieces are KP, Willy, Frank, THJR and future picks, is it wise to max Capela? I think there is not an obvious answer.
All aboard the Mike Zarren train  
Anakim : 7/10/2017 12:14 pm : link
Though he probably won't want to come here and be one of Dolan's yes men
RE: All aboard the Mike Zarren train  
Strahan91 : 7/10/2017 12:18 pm : link
In comment 13524306 Anakim said:
Quote:
Though he probably won't want to come here and be one of Dolan's yes men


The Knicks lucking into someone like Zarren is the only hope we have. His "own guys" will still be with their respective teams and given that he's never been the GM before maybe he's willing to put up with it until he gains Dolan's trust and slowly but surely can bring in his own guys who eventually overtake the clown car. It's too much to hope for though, since it's looking more and more likely that Houston or Warkentien will be named the full time GM...
This trade  
DpeeFor2 : 7/10/2017 12:27 pm : link
Is the one I pray will happen but won't. Thoughts?
Link - ( New Window )
RE: This trade  
Anakim : 7/10/2017 12:29 pm : link
In comment 13524317 DpeeFor2 said:
Quote:
Is the one I pray will happen but won't. Thoughts? Link - ( New Window )


No chance. There's no chance that giving up Melo would even net us Chriss alone
RE: All aboard the Mike Zarren train  
Enzo : 7/10/2017 12:31 pm : link
In comment 13524306 Anakim said:
Quote:
Though he probably won't want to come here and be one of Dolan's yes men

if this guy ever shook loose from Boston half the teams in the league would be looking to hire him.
Zarren  
TyreeHelmet : 7/10/2017 12:32 pm : link
Is Zarren actually a candidate or is that just speculation?

It sucks but it's going to take a big name high profile person to convince Dolan to clean house and have ultimate power. I'm not sure who that person. I'm still holding out hope they find a way to get Ujiri.
Big  
DanMetroMan : 7/10/2017 12:33 pm : link
Sauce signs with the Suns. 3 years 17
RE: Zarren  
Strahan91 : 7/10/2017 12:47 pm : link
In comment 13524325 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
Is Zarren actually a candidate or is that just speculation?

It sucks but it's going to take a big name high profile person to convince Dolan to clean house and have ultimate power. I'm not sure who that person. I'm still holding out hope they find a way to get Ujiri.


Speculation
Dolan will have no patience  
Deej : 7/10/2017 1:09 pm : link
to do what the Celts are doing (which btw isnt necessarily getting them anywhere -- they still lack the #1 and #2 horses to contend for a title, and I dont think Tatum will be such a player in time either).
People  
DanMetroMan : 7/10/2017 1:12 pm : link
are going bonkers over how good Tatum looks in summer league. Some are comparing his offensive upside to... Melo.
I'm not sure the  
Metnut : 7/10/2017 1:15 pm : link
league is a binary situation where you are either a top 3 team and title contender or a zero. You'd need to look at the league through that prism to say the Celtics aren't going anywhere.

You can argue that the Celtics have a 50ish win floor set up for the next 7 or so years. They have young exciting talent everywhere and their fans can count on seeing good basketball and good players for a long time. There's a ton of value in that even if they never make the finals IMO.
At this point  
steve in ky : 7/10/2017 1:17 pm : link
Since it looks like Mills as President and they likley wont get anyone great coming in from the outside I would almost rather they promote Houston to the GM and see what he could do making the personnel decisions rather than Mills.
Celtics are also in a unique situation  
giants#1 : 7/10/2017 1:21 pm : link
where they'll likely have a top 3 team in the Conference and still add a top 5 player in the following draft. Basically they have the chance to add a Tim Duncan to David Robinson without doing the tank...
Current NBA landscape  
Chris684 : 7/10/2017 1:28 pm : link
and why a potential Carmelo deal is huge.

Alone by themselves, Golden State.

Cleveland is still easily the 2nd best team in the league as long as LeBron is there.

The only other relevant teams that can potentially enter the stratosphere of either are Houston, OKC, San Antonio and Boston.

For Houston or Cleveland, Carmelo is an X factor. I think with Carmelo, Houston jumps ahead of Spurs and OKC as clear challenger to GS out west.

I'm not sure why Cleveland is not all over the Knicks about working out a deal for Anthony. Boston has closed some of the gap in my opinion, and I don't see a logical argument that this version of the Cavs can beat GS with KD.

It seems Carmelo can really shake up the NBA hierarchy.
RE: People  
Deej : 7/10/2017 1:28 pm : link
In comment 13524376 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
are going bonkers over how good Tatum looks in summer league. Some are comparing his offensive upside to... Melo.


I like Tatum. I just dont think he's got it in him to be your #1 superstar. I feel/felt the same about Melo.
RE: At this point  
yankeeslover : 7/10/2017 1:28 pm : link
In comment 13524383 steve in ky said:
Quote:
Since it looks like Mills as President and they likley wont get anyone great coming in from the outside I would almost rather they promote Houston to the GM and see what he could do making the personnel decisions rather than Mills.


I agree... might as well....nothing to lose at this point..
Allan  
DanMetroMan : 7/10/2017 1:30 pm : link
Houston has zero coaching or scouting experience. He's on the payroll because he's friends with Jimmy D. I've heard off the record that Houston comes off "poorly" when discussing the game and Isola noted that Houston (while a great guy) is not viewed highly around the league as a potential GM. No thank you. I'd sooner rehire Zeke (not kidding either).
RE: I'm not sure the  
Deej : 7/10/2017 1:31 pm : link
In comment 13524379 Metnut said:
Quote:
league is a binary situation where you are either a top 3 team and title contender or a zero. You'd need to look at the league through that prism to say the Celtics aren't going anywhere.

You can argue that the Celtics have a 50ish win floor set up for the next 7 or so years. They have young exciting talent everywhere and their fans can count on seeing good basketball and good players for a long time. There's a ton of value in that even if they never make the finals IMO.


I get all that. It's hard to hold it against an Ainge or any other GM that GSW managed to draft 3 Team USA Talents with a mid lottery, a mid/late lottery, and a #2, and then signed one of the top 5 players in the game as a UFA. Oh, and everyone is now willing to take massive hometown discounts.
RE: RE: People  
DanMetroMan : 7/10/2017 1:32 pm : link
In comment 13524394 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13524376 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


are going bonkers over how good Tatum looks in summer league. Some are comparing his offensive upside to... Melo.



I like Tatum. I just dont think he's got it in him to be your #1 superstar. I feel/felt the same about Melo.


Deej,
To be clear I wasn't really disputing what you said (though I'd argue I'd rather be the Celtics than any other organization not named Warriors) over the next 3-5 years. I was just commenting on the massive buzz Tatum has right now.
heh....saw this in the comments at Posting and Toasting  
Greg from LI : 7/10/2017 1:33 pm : link
I laughed.

Quote:
Somewhere in the Garden there’s a photo from a New Year’s Eve party from 1921, and Steve Mills is front and center. Like the Shining. Sigh.
What  
DanMetroMan : 7/10/2017 1:34 pm : link
gives you any indication Allan Houston would be a good hire? He's extremely close with the owner, his "role" has been GM of the Westchester Knicks which means outside of moves to fill the roster he's simply doing as the Knicks GM tells him to do. He's not signing FA, drafting college players or even working with other GM's on trades. He so highly thought of you never once have heard of another team trying to poach him. There is no scenario he's the best candidate (even in a world where we accept Mills as president). He'd be a puppet.
RE: Allan  
hitdog42 : 7/10/2017 1:35 pm : link
In comment 13524402 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Houston has zero coaching or scouting experience. He's on the payroll because he's friends with Jimmy D. I've heard off the record that Houston comes off "poorly" when discussing the game and Isola noted that Houston (while a great guy) is not viewed highly around the league as a potential GM. No thank you. I'd sooner rehire Zeke (not kidding either).


agree with all those views and the rumblings on ah
The only benefit I see to promoting AH is that he's preventing NYK  
Heisenberg : 7/10/2017 1:39 pm : link
from hiring a legit GM by his presence as mandatory assistant. So, Dolan should just give him the fucking job already rather than insist on him remaining in this position. If he succeeds, ok. If he fails, he gets fired and at least he's not in the way of the next guy.

To be clear, this scenario also completely sucks. It just sucks in a different way than trying to hire a legit GM into this dysfunction junction.
RE: RE: RE: People  
Deej : 7/10/2017 1:41 pm : link
In comment 13524405 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13524394 Deej said:


Quote:


In comment 13524376 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


are going bonkers over how good Tatum looks in summer league. Some are comparing his offensive upside to... Melo.



I like Tatum. I just dont think he's got it in him to be your #1 superstar. I feel/felt the same about Melo.



Deej,
To be clear I wasn't really disputing what you said (though I'd argue I'd rather be the Celtics than any other organization not named Warriors) over the next 3-5 years. I was just commenting on the massive buzz Tatum has right now.


I think I'd rather be the Wolves or Sixers. I see a clearer title path for both of those teams. I think they have the potentials for having the #1 and #2 player on a title team. I think the Celts have interesting pieces to consistently win 55-60+ games and then lose to the Cavs/Warriors. And that is with resigning Thomas, which is a risk I think they wont take (better chance now with GH on board).
Yeah I've made this point before about Allan Houston...  
bceagle05 : 7/10/2017 1:44 pm : link
He's been the assistant GM for a while now, and has been in the Knicks front office in one capacity or another for even longer. How come he hasn't gotten a whiff of a GM job? Has there ever been an interview request? The Nets were looking for a GM a couple of years back - what better way to stick it to their crosstown rivals than poaching a supposedly up-and-coming, bright basketball mind right out from under them? But no, he's just a "Dolan guy" cashing paychecks. It's one thing for Starks and LJ to be paid as ambassadors and trotted out for charitable causes, but to let Houston be involved in personnel? Gimme a freaking break.
Regarding the Celtics, I'd be underwhelmed if I were a Celts fan.  
bceagle05 : 7/10/2017 1:46 pm : link
Brown and Tatum are not what I had in mind with these Brooklyn picks. The Nets have dodged the bullets so far - just get through one more year without handing the Celtics a superstar and the whole division can move on. I hope the Nets add another piece or two to get themselves out of the top five. If they want Ryan Anderson, I'm sure the Knicks and Rockets would happily oblige.
RE: What  
steve in ky : 7/10/2017 1:48 pm : link
In comment 13524409 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
gives you any indication Allan Houston would be a good hire? He's extremely close with the owner, his "role" has been GM of the Westchester Knicks which means outside of moves to fill the roster he's simply doing as the Knicks GM tells him to do. He's not signing FA, drafting college players or even working with other GM's on trades. He so highly thought of you never once have heard of another team trying to poach him. There is no scenario he's the best candidate (even in a world where we accept Mills as president). He'd be a puppet.


Where did I say I felt he would be a good hire?

I am saying since it appears they can't get a good hire from the outside because Dolan is keeping his core group in power I would at this point rather see Houston given a shot than go backwards to Mills (or Thomas as you suggest).

RE: RE: What  
DanMetroMan : 7/10/2017 1:58 pm : link
In comment 13524438 steve in ky said:
Quote:
In comment 13524409 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


gives you any indication Allan Houston would be a good hire? He's extremely close with the owner, his "role" has been GM of the Westchester Knicks which means outside of moves to fill the roster he's simply doing as the Knicks GM tells him to do. He's not signing FA, drafting college players or even working with other GM's on trades. He so highly thought of you never once have heard of another team trying to poach him. There is no scenario he's the best candidate (even in a world where we accept Mills as president). He'd be a puppet.



Where did I say I felt he would be a good hire?

I am saying since it appears they can't get a good hire from the outside because Dolan is keeping his core group in power I would at this point rather see Houston given a shot than go backwards to Mills (or Thomas as you suggest).


We already have had Mills/Houston in "positions of power". Houston being the GM would be the worst case scenario. At least if they hired someone internal but not previously "high up" this mystery man could conceivably come in and surprise with his previously unknown thoughts and beliefs. Maybe Walker Russell is that guy, maybe it's Kevin Wilson, maybe that guy doesn't exist but I sure as hell wouldn't bet on the status quo duo "surprising" us. If the Knicks fired Allan Houston tomorrow I'm sure he'd get some sort of role (he's an ex all-star, decent enough human being etc) but nobody is frothing at the mouth to hire Allan Houston as a decision maker.
PS  
DanMetroMan : 7/10/2017 1:59 pm : link
I also think SOMEONE is going to accept the Knicks current set up either for the sweet cash, or the belief they can make it work (or both). Doesn't mean it will be the right guy but I'll still take my chances on Mr. Man X vs. Houston, again this mystery man at least will be a new voice.
RE: RE: RE: What  
giants#1 : 7/10/2017 2:01 pm : link
In comment 13524458 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:




We already have had Mills/Houston in "positions of power". Houston being the GM would be the worst case scenario. At least if they hired someone internal but not previously "high up" this mystery man could conceivably come in and surprise with his previously unknown thoughts and beliefs. Maybe Walker Russell is that guy, maybe it's Kevin Wilson, maybe that guy doesn't exist but I sure as hell wouldn't bet on the status quo duo "surprising" us. If the Knicks fired Allan Houston tomorrow I'm sure he'd get some sort of role (he's an ex all-star, decent enough human being etc) but nobody is frothing at the mouth to hire Allan Houston as a decision maker.


They've been in positions of power, but took Cris Carter's advice and made sure they had fall guys in place to take the blame when things went south. If/when they are named President and GM, at least they'll be no one left to blame when things go further south and maybe (doubtful) Dolan will finally get rid of those two.
I've  
DanMetroMan : 7/10/2017 2:03 pm : link
yet to see any indication Dolan really cares about the Knicks actually being good. If they sell out the garden that's really all that matters and they have no real problem doing that because of corporate accounts, celebs etc. You guys really want to sit through 2+ years of Mills/Houston praying they are either shockingly good or prove they are so bad that we are trying again? I don't personally believe KP will leave as a FA but I wouldn't risk getting this close to the sun. Another really bad regime and yeah, I think he's a goner.
Lets  
DanMetroMan : 7/10/2017 2:05 pm : link
put it this way, WE care about the Knicks being title contenders. Dolan is high fiving Allan Houston and the 7 seed Knicks with Rondo/Melo/THjr etc. The Knicks can both win more games AND be a disaster. The owner cares about asses in the seats, nothing else.
RE: I've  
steve in ky : 7/10/2017 2:10 pm : link
In comment 13524465 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
You guys really want to sit through 2+ years of Mills/Houston praying they are either shockingly good or prove they are so bad that we are trying again?


Don't put words in my mouth, I prefer to have no part of that. But I did say:

Quote:
At this point
steve in ky : 1:17 pm : link : reply
Since it looks like Mills as President and they likley wont get anyone great coming in from the outside I would almost rather they promote Houston to the GM and see what he could do making the personnel decisions rather than Mills.


Surely you can see the distinction between that and wanting Mills/Houston

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