he deleted it, there is a guy on twitter who apparently is followed by begely, shelbourne and a couple others saying that harden is telling people that the deal is done...fwiw
If this does go through, I'd like to know what they have been hammering out since this was first reported as a "done deal."
never reported as "done" it was reported thay players from houston and knicks were told melo will be dealt to houston...
my guess knicks and houston locked on and worked to get a deal done together and that is how it got leaked
Was referring to that jsports guy. If he is in fact not full of shit, then again I'm interested in the particulars that have been batted back and forth since he first put that out there. Can't imagine that he would say it's happening if they were looking for a third team this whole time.
qualifications, he has said he wants to have a young core to grow together. That's why he didn't have an issue signing a 25 yr old THJ. I would have to think he is pushing for young players and/or picks. Say what you want about him but that's what we want him to do. If he works with Hornacek for which players to ask for it might work out. I'm not ready to bury him until this plays out. And if he does well then it might not be a horror show with him running the joint. He screws up from arrogance or stupidity I'll be right there calling for his head.
I can see a scenario where Phil is scapegoated and everyone else acts as if this never happened and they pretend they are contenders.
I've been saying all along he just might not be traded. I'll believe he's gone when I see it and I refuse to believe we get anything positive in return even if he's dealt.
qualifications, he has said he wants to have a young core to grow together. That's why he didn't have an issue signing a 25 yr old THJ. I would have to think he is pushing for young players and/or picks. Say what you want about him but that's what we want him to do. If he works with Hornacek for which players to ask for it might work out. I'm not ready to bury him until this plays out. And if he does well then it might not be a horror show with him running the joint. He screws up from arrogance or stupidity I'll be right there calling for his head.
Good post. Bringing in players that might actually fit with the coach's preferred style of play. What a novel concept, huh?
know absolutely positively nothing about weight training but a guy who claims he does (he sounds like he does) stated concern with Porzingis strength in a video he posted
"Let my preface this by saying that I don't think there's any need for him to become some 300lb giant, nor do I expect him to already have achieved some elite level of strength.
That said, his workout recordings are a disaster. They disguise it in places by using bumper plates (far larger and less dense than iron) to make it look like he's moving more weight, but the guy is lifting amounts the average completely untrained rookie can achieve within a month of casual training. In his most recent video, we see his bench is only at 50kg (110lbs). That's pre-draft Kevin Durant strength from a guy going into his third season. He also shows off one of the ugliest power cleans I've ever seen, catching 100% of the weight on his elbows at an angle that will cause injury long-term if not corrected. Judging from his rack pull and other recent clips, his squat and deadlift are comparably weak. It isn't even a matter of pacing him so he gets used to playing at different weights or something; he can get way stronger and more explosive without putting on a pound. That means he either wasn't doing any of these exercises until very recently or his training is being so mishandled to where he simply isn't gaining any strength.
I can't drive home enough that these are levels normal, untrained individuals don't uncommonly achieve just via day to day activity. I can't imagine a team's training staff handling a player's strength training this poorly when it's been one of his primary issues thus far. Which leads into my main concern with Porzingis in general; his brother. KP's brother is the one spearheading the training that doesn't appear to be working, handling communication with the front office that only led to increased tensions, and constantly talking about leveraging KP's position. Where a guy like Lavar is just hot air to ignore, this case seems like something that could genuinely hurt our situation going forward. I don't like seeing KP pass on the best trainers money can buy for an alright former basketball player who may very well have been raised on broscience."
George Karl, Phil Jackson and at times the Knicks fanbase have all collectively sh*t on Melo's game, but I'm still surprised by how hard trading him seems to be, especially for any real assets of value. I understand the NTC and the money, but still.
I guess I'm talking specifically about LeBron. If I was in LeBron's shoes I'd have Kevin Love on the trading block looking for a way to bring Melo in immediately. His only shot at Golden State (as long as he stays in Cleveland) is bringing in the olympic version of Carmelo Anthony to run with he and Kyrie.
George Karl, Phil Jackson and at times the Knicks fanbase have all collectively sh*t on Melo's game, but I'm still surprised by how hard trading him seems to be, especially for any real assets of value. I understand the NTC and the money, but still.
I guess I'm talking specifically about LeBron. If I was in LeBron's shoes I'd have Kevin Love on the trading block looking for a way to bring Melo in immediately. His only shot at Golden State (as long as he stays in Cleveland) is bringing in the olympic version of Carmelo Anthony to run with he and Kyrie.
I think a lot of it is the NTC and the fact that teams he is eyeballing are tapped out of future assets. Save Cleveland, which so far seems to want to keep it's future #1s out of fear LeBron is leaving in a year.
Following up on the Griffin story, Stefan Bondy of The New York Daily News reports that one of the requests made by the former Cavs GM was to remove assistant GM Allan Houston from the front office. The Knicks’ unwillingness to part with Houston or to let Griffin bring in his own staff was one reason why the potential partnership didn’t pan out.
Currently, Mills is focusing on potentially trading Carmelo Anthony, finding a veteran point guard, and figuring out how to smooth things over with Kristaps Porzingis, according to Begley.
On the point guard front, the club has remained in touch with Rajon Rondo, and there’s mutual interest there, says Begley. However, the Knicks are out of cap room for the moment, so it’s not clear if Rondo would be willing to settle for the $4.3MM room exception, or if the team is looking to create cap space in order to make a more substantial offer.
A trade for a veteran point guard is a possibility too, according to Begley, who says New York had “strong” interest in Patrick Beverley before Houston traded him to the Clippers. Begley also mentions Brandon Knight or Eric Bledsoe as possible trade candidates, though there’s no indication the Knicks have talked to Phoenix about those vets.
No Carmelo deal is imminent, but the Knicks and Anthony “feel good” about getting something done at some point, sources tell Begley. For his part, newly-signed Knick Tim Hardaway said he’d “definitely” like to see Anthony return to the team next season (link via Begley).
It's like an arms race to stay in that top % of the league and also have a shot at GS (who by the way improved its team again this offseason).
OKC made their move.
Houston made their move, looking for more.
Boston is taking more of a measured approach through the drafts, but they are still right there.
San Antonio and Cleveland I'd argue are the ones who need to keep up at this point. Of course you trust them with LeBron, Pop and Kawhi. But as age creeps in, don't you need reinforcements?
George Karl, Phil Jackson and at times the Knicks fanbase have all collectively sh*t on Melo's game, but I'm still surprised by how hard trading him seems to be, especially for any real assets of value. I understand the NTC and the money, but still.
even without the NTC it wouldn't be easy. Only a contending team is going to want Melo - and it's hard for a contending team to send back matching salaries without breaking up their existing core players.
It's so much easier to pull off these kinds of deals in MLB. You can trade a star player making $100 million for 3 guys who aren't even in the majors.
"Begley also mentions Brandon Knight or Eric Bledsoe" Â
is not happening. There are only a few teams that could absorb a courtney Lee into capspace and they arent going to do it for free. The teams that have capspace dont need a courtney lee.
As for Knight, i think going to PHX, the land of a thousand guards really hurt him. That said his contract is horrible so id have no interest in him for the knicks.
Knight sure seems to have fallen off quite a bit from earlier in his career. Anyone know what's gone on with him?
Earl Watson repeatedly mentioned a lack of effort on defense from Knight last season. He's ALWAYS hurt (169 games played since 2013-2014 out of 246 team games) and by WS/48 he's been straight garbage all but 1 season. That's an ugly contract for the player he's been 3 years 44 million. I'd pass. Wouldn't want him for 3 years and even Lee for Knight doesn't really do much for me.
Knight sure seems to have fallen off quite a bit from earlier in his career. Anyone know what's gone on with him?
What is that quote from? Would love Knight or Bledsoe. Both are pretty good buy low opportunities due to the Suns glut at PG.
You'd pay Brandon Knight 43 million? I wouldn't.
Last 2 season .032 WS/48, 58 games missed. The corpse of Deron Williams .077 WS/48 over the same period 35 games missed. Deron Williams will be lucky to get 1 year 4.3 million.
The Suns are an interesting 3rd team in a Melo deal though.
They have a glut at PG and 24M in cap room, so the Knicks could trade Melo for Knight and save 13M this year and next in salary. Would obviously hope they got more in return, but that is intriguing.
the Suns seemingly shut him down last year even though he was healthy. weird.
Already on his 3rd team and being shopped again, my guess is he's not the kind of player coaches like to deal with... here is Watson on Knight and why he wasn't playing over Ullis.... exactly the kind of players we should be avoiding... especially at 43 million owed
Ball pressure is most important at that position,” Watson said. “We feel like Tyler Ulis gives us that every time we put him on the court. It’s not scoring points, it’s not — you have 20 points and be efficient or offensively — it’s can you create a presence defensively. When you talk about building a culture, you go through your first season and you identify the players who are going to commit to the mindset or the physical sacrifice of defensively building that culture.”
"“You have to break down the mental barrier of where they see value in themselves,” Watson said of his team overall. “For us, we have to go from a me-team to a we-team. So the me-team is, ‘I’m good enough to change the game offensively. I’m good enough to score enough points to stay in the game, have an impact.’ The we-team is, ‘I have to give everything I have defensively. When we get to offense, I have to move the ball and share the ball to regain some wind and some stamina.’ We have to change that mindset and that action.”"
the Suns seemingly shut him down last year even though he was healthy. weird.
Already on his 3rd team and being shopped again, my guess is he's not the kind of player coaches like to deal with... here is Watson on Knight and why he wasn't playing over Ullis.... exactly the kind of players we should be avoiding... especially at 43 million owed
Ball pressure is most important at that position,” Watson said. “We feel like Tyler Ulis gives us that every time we put him on the court. It’s not scoring points, it’s not — you have 20 points and be efficient or offensively — it’s can you create a presence defensively. When you talk about building a culture, you go through your first season and you identify the players who are going to commit to the mindset or the physical sacrifice of defensively building that culture.”
"“You have to break down the mental barrier of where they see value in themselves,” Watson said of his team overall. “For us, we have to go from a me-team to a we-team. So the me-team is, ‘I’m good enough to change the game offensively. I’m good enough to score enough points to stay in the game, have an impact.’ The we-team is, ‘I have to give everything I have defensively. When we get to offense, I have to move the ball and share the ball to regain some wind and some stamina.’ We have to change that mindset and that action.”"
Love this quote. Exactly why I wanted frank over smith
He played for Hornacek 1 season (2015-2016) and 11 games the previous year and sucked. .043 WS/48. He's only had one stretch of good play in his career. 52 games with the Bucks during the 2014-2015 season.
Im sure most coaches believe it. The great coaches get players to buy in, which isnt easy. I think it's even harder when you've got a transient roster like we tend to have. Plus, Melo and Rose are not great leaders by example on this front.
he deleted it, there is a guy on twitter who apparently is followed by begely, shelbourne and a couple others saying that harden is telling people that the deal is done...fwiw
If this does go through, I'd like to know what they have been hammering out since this was first reported as a "done deal."
If this does go through, I'd like to know what they have been hammering out since this was first reported as a "done deal."
never reported as "done" it was reported thay players from houston and knicks were told melo will be dealt to houston...
my guess knicks and houston locked on and worked to get a deal done together and that is how it got leaked
Quote:
like everyone else.
If this does go through, I'd like to know what they have been hammering out since this was first reported as a "done deal."
never reported as "done" it was reported thay players from houston and knicks were told melo will be dealt to houston...
my guess knicks and houston locked on and worked to get a deal done together and that is how it got leaked
Was referring to that jsports guy. If he is in fact not full of shit, then again I'm interested in the particulars that have been batted back and forth since he first put that out there. Can't imagine that he would say it's happening if they were looking for a third team this whole time.
I can see a scenario where Phil is scapegoated and everyone else acts as if this never happened and they pretend they are contenders.
I've been saying all along he just might not be traded. I'll believe he's gone when I see it and I refuse to believe we get anything positive in return even if he's dealt.
Good post. Bringing in players that might actually fit with the coach's preferred style of play. What a novel concept, huh?
He also said he wanted to build a culture of accountability, and then didn't even show his face at a press conference.
vet minimum sure...
i almost wonder if rondo is waiting to see if the knicks can open up a little more cap space before signing somewhwer...
kind of like keenan robinson did with giants and jpp
Link - ( New Window )
Then he'd be a perfect fit.
I hope the Knicks don't win a game next year.
Quote:
during the NBA finals.
Then he'd be a perfect fit.
I hope the Knicks don't win a game next year.
Or ever again, as long as Dolan owns them.
He also was open about "hating" New York when he got out of town and landed in Dallas. He's known as a bit of a tool.
Don't forget Steve Francis
Stop!
"Let my preface this by saying that I don't think there's any need for him to become some 300lb giant, nor do I expect him to already have achieved some elite level of strength.
That said, his workout recordings are a disaster. They disguise it in places by using bumper plates (far larger and less dense than iron) to make it look like he's moving more weight, but the guy is lifting amounts the average completely untrained rookie can achieve within a month of casual training. In his most recent video, we see his bench is only at 50kg (110lbs). That's pre-draft Kevin Durant strength from a guy going into his third season. He also shows off one of the ugliest power cleans I've ever seen, catching 100% of the weight on his elbows at an angle that will cause injury long-term if not corrected. Judging from his rack pull and other recent clips, his squat and deadlift are comparably weak. It isn't even a matter of pacing him so he gets used to playing at different weights or something; he can get way stronger and more explosive without putting on a pound. That means he either wasn't doing any of these exercises until very recently or his training is being so mishandled to where he simply isn't gaining any strength.
I can't drive home enough that these are levels normal, untrained individuals don't uncommonly achieve just via day to day activity. I can't imagine a team's training staff handling a player's strength training this poorly when it's been one of his primary issues thus far. Which leads into my main concern with Porzingis in general; his brother. KP's brother is the one spearheading the training that doesn't appear to be working, handling communication with the front office that only led to increased tensions, and constantly talking about leveraging KP's position. Where a guy like Lavar is just hot air to ignore, this case seems like something that could genuinely hurt our situation going forward. I don't like seeing KP pass on the best trainers money can buy for an alright former basketball player who may very well have been raised on broscience."
Linked below is the video
Link - ( New Window )
Stop!
Ryan Anderson a 2nd rounder doesn't do it for you? I'm at the point where I will be selling myself on Cameron Oliver as a "first round talent!" lol
Quote:
and now Deron. MSG, where old PGs come to die.
Don't forget Steve Francis
he actually had a few games with the Rockets after his Knicks tenure. But yeah...
I guess I'm talking specifically about LeBron. If I was in LeBron's shoes I'd have Kevin Love on the trading block looking for a way to bring Melo in immediately. His only shot at Golden State (as long as he stays in Cleveland) is bringing in the olympic version of Carmelo Anthony to run with he and Kyrie.
I guess I'm talking specifically about LeBron. If I was in LeBron's shoes I'd have Kevin Love on the trading block looking for a way to bring Melo in immediately. His only shot at Golden State (as long as he stays in Cleveland) is bringing in the olympic version of Carmelo Anthony to run with he and Kyrie.
I think a lot of it is the NTC and the fact that teams he is eyeballing are tapped out of future assets. Save Cleveland, which so far seems to want to keep it's future #1s out of fear LeBron is leaving in a year.
Currently, Mills is focusing on potentially trading Carmelo Anthony, finding a veteran point guard, and figuring out how to smooth things over with Kristaps Porzingis, according to Begley.
On the point guard front, the club has remained in touch with Rajon Rondo, and there’s mutual interest there, says Begley. However, the Knicks are out of cap room for the moment, so it’s not clear if Rondo would be willing to settle for the $4.3MM room exception, or if the team is looking to create cap space in order to make a more substantial offer.
A trade for a veteran point guard is a possibility too, according to Begley, who says New York had “strong” interest in Patrick Beverley before Houston traded him to the Clippers. Begley also mentions Brandon Knight or Eric Bledsoe as possible trade candidates, though there’s no indication the Knicks have talked to Phoenix about those vets.
No Carmelo deal is imminent, but the Knicks and Anthony “feel good” about getting something done at some point, sources tell Begley. For his part, newly-signed Knick Tim Hardaway said he’d “definitely” like to see Anthony return to the team next season (link via Begley).
Houston
SA
OKC
Cleveland
Boston
It's like an arms race to stay in that top % of the league and also have a shot at GS (who by the way improved its team again this offseason).
OKC made their move.
Houston made their move, looking for more.
Boston is taking more of a measured approach through the drafts, but they are still right there.
San Antonio and Cleveland I'd argue are the ones who need to keep up at this point. Of course you trust them with LeBron, Pop and Kawhi. But as age creeps in, don't you need reinforcements?
even without the NTC it wouldn't be easy. Only a contending team is going to want Melo - and it's hard for a contending team to send back matching salaries without breaking up their existing core players.
It's so much easier to pull off these kinds of deals in MLB. You can trade a star player making $100 million for 3 guys who aren't even in the majors.
As for Knight, i think going to PHX, the land of a thousand guards really hurt him. That said his contract is horrible so id have no interest in him for the knicks.
What is that quote from? Would love Knight or Bledsoe. Both are pretty good buy low opportunities due to the Suns glut at PG.
Earl Watson repeatedly mentioned a lack of effort on defense from Knight last season. He's ALWAYS hurt (169 games played since 2013-2014 out of 246 team games) and by WS/48 he's been straight garbage all but 1 season. That's an ugly contract for the player he's been 3 years 44 million. I'd pass. Wouldn't want him for 3 years and even Lee for Knight doesn't really do much for me.
Quote:
Knight sure seems to have fallen off quite a bit from earlier in his career. Anyone know what's gone on with him?
What is that quote from? Would love Knight or Bledsoe. Both are pretty good buy low opportunities due to the Suns glut at PG.
You'd pay Brandon Knight 43 million? I wouldn't.
Last 2 season .032 WS/48, 58 games missed. The corpse of Deron Williams .077 WS/48 over the same period 35 games missed. Deron Williams will be lucky to get 1 year 4.3 million.
The Suns are an interesting 3rd team in a Melo deal though.
They have a glut at PG and 24M in cap room, so the Knicks could trade Melo for Knight and save 13M this year and next in salary. Would obviously hope they got more in return, but that is intriguing.
Already on his 3rd team and being shopped again, my guess is he's not the kind of player coaches like to deal with... here is Watson on Knight and why he wasn't playing over Ullis.... exactly the kind of players we should be avoiding... especially at 43 million owed
Ball pressure is most important at that position,” Watson said. “We feel like Tyler Ulis gives us that every time we put him on the court. It’s not scoring points, it’s not — you have 20 points and be efficient or offensively — it’s can you create a presence defensively. When you talk about building a culture, you go through your first season and you identify the players who are going to commit to the mindset or the physical sacrifice of defensively building that culture.”
"“You have to break down the mental barrier of where they see value in themselves,” Watson said of his team overall. “For us, we have to go from a me-team to a we-team. So the me-team is, ‘I’m good enough to change the game offensively. I’m good enough to score enough points to stay in the game, have an impact.’ The we-team is, ‘I have to give everything I have defensively. When we get to offense, I have to move the ball and share the ball to regain some wind and some stamina.’ We have to change that mindset and that action.”"
Deron .077 WS/48
Rose .039
Rondo .076
Jennings .058
Lawson .063 (very quietly played pretty well for the Kings)
Knicks get: Knight, rights to Llull/Hartenstein, Bender, Ariza
Rockets give: Anderson, Ariza
Rockets get: Melo
Suns give: Knight, Bender
Suns get: Anderson
Also, how was Knight under Hornacek in Phoenix?
Quote:
the Suns seemingly shut him down last year even though he was healthy. weird.
Already on his 3rd team and being shopped again, my guess is he's not the kind of player coaches like to deal with... here is Watson on Knight and why he wasn't playing over Ullis.... exactly the kind of players we should be avoiding... especially at 43 million owed
Ball pressure is most important at that position,” Watson said. “We feel like Tyler Ulis gives us that every time we put him on the court. It’s not scoring points, it’s not — you have 20 points and be efficient or offensively — it’s can you create a presence defensively. When you talk about building a culture, you go through your first season and you identify the players who are going to commit to the mindset or the physical sacrifice of defensively building that culture.”
"“You have to break down the mental barrier of where they see value in themselves,” Watson said of his team overall. “For us, we have to go from a me-team to a we-team. So the me-team is, ‘I’m good enough to change the game offensively. I’m good enough to score enough points to stay in the game, have an impact.’ The we-team is, ‘I have to give everything I have defensively. When we get to offense, I have to move the ball and share the ball to regain some wind and some stamina.’ We have to change that mindset and that action.”"
Love this quote. Exactly why I wanted frank over smith
Also, how was Knight under Hornacek in Phoenix?
He played for Hornacek 1 season (2015-2016) and 11 games the previous year and sucked. .043 WS/48. He's only had one stretch of good play in his career. 52 games with the Bucks during the 2014-2015 season.