in that teams know the relationship is toxic and one they're trying to get out of.
I agree that teams would be offering less to take him off of the Knicks hands... just look at how stingy the KP offers were. But we live in a world where Paul George and DeMarcus Cousins (different circumstances, I know) get "disappointing returns".
I think if there were several teams looking at him and saying, "That's a player we absolutely have to acquire", it wouldn't matter. I'm not sure there's even one team saying that. What could we have legitimately expected for a guy who's expensive and clearly past his prime? I just think that drives the return more than anything Phil could've said.
other crony Ronald Lazenby is now saying Mills was part of the reason Phil didn't work here. Mills "obstructed" Jackson's initiatives.
Why are these idiots even bothering with this horseshit now? Phil is gone and he got a pile of money. Was one of "Phil's initiatives" making that imbecile Kurt Rambis the head coach?
other crony Ronald Lazenby is now saying Mills was part of the reason Phil didn't work here. Mills "obstructed" Jackson's initiatives.
Why are these idiots even bothering with this horseshit now? Phil is gone and he got a pile of money. Was one of "Phil's initiatives" making that imbecile Kurt Rambis the head coach?
lazenby also proclaimed rambis would be head coach and that he already had the job
other crony Ronald Lazenby is now saying Mills was part of the reason Phil didn't work here. Mills "obstructed" Jackson's initiatives.
Why are these idiots even bothering with this horseshit now? Phil is gone and he got a pile of money. Was one of "Phil's initiatives" making that imbecile Kurt Rambis the head coach?
lazenby also proclaimed rambis would be head coach and that he already had the job
why do the Knicks keep giving these PO out? Even Hardaways deal has one after 3? The Knicks are the ones with the leverage in these situations and they still lose the deals.
why do the Knicks keep giving these PO out? Even Hardaways deal has one after 3? The Knicks are the ones with the leverage in these situations and they still lose the deals.
Because everyone knows that the Knicks are so desperate to be chosen by the player that they dont say no to this stuff. It's a gross lack of organizational self confidence. And no one worries about 3 years later because they'll be thru 2 more GMs by then.
why do the Knicks keep giving these PO out? Even Hardaways deal has one after 3? The Knicks are the ones with the leverage in these situations and they still lose the deals.
knicks never have leverage because they suck so bad...
look at durant taking less money so the warriors can sign their bench guys and the gm said he offered to take even less...
did melo do that? nope, he could of taken continuous 2 year deals to give knicks flexibility but of course melo had to have his money...
courtney lee has to be kicking himself right now, took less to be here and now he probably wont even start
Is at all like Durant going to play for a perennial contender and a team that played in the finals and won one the last two years. But keep bashing him if it helps.
As fans who want to continue rooting for the team, we don't have a choice.
Sad part is that KP is probably going to come in any play the whole season in F-U mode, and average something like 24-8-2.5, and make Jimmy and Mills look better than they should look.
Is at all like Durant going to play for a perennial contender and a team that played in the finals and won one the last two years. But keep bashing him if it helps.
That's his point. When you are the knicks and you are a joke, players play for money, not to win.
At the end of the 2015 season, Minny and New York were in similar situations. I know Minnesota had Wiggins/ Lavine and all their picks but they were similar situations. T wolves truly tanked the end of the year while the Knicks won meaningless games that bumped them to 4th. Both teams still came away with 2 franchise talents from the 2015 draft.
Fast forward 2 years and compare the 2. T Wolves have an elite head coach. The Knicks are on their 3rd coach in 2 years and zero direction as a franchise. Minny acquired Jimmy Butler, Jeff Teague, Justin Patton and Taj Gibson this offseason. Along with an extra 1st round pick from Utah. They also own all their future picks and didn't try to trade KAT.
2 Franchises going in complete different directions over 2 years.
Well, the Knicks have their picks, but we'll see how long that lasts Â
At the end of the 2015 season, Minny and New York were in similar situations. I know Minnesota had Wiggins/ Lavine and all their picks but they were similar situations. T wolves truly tanked the end of the year while the Knicks won meaningless games that bumped them to 4th. Both teams still came away with 2 franchise talents from the 2015 draft.
Fast forward 2 years and compare the 2. T Wolves have an elite head coach. The Knicks are on their 3rd coach in 2 years and zero direction as a franchise. Minny acquired Jimmy Butler, Jeff Teague, Justin Patton and Taj Gibson this offseason. Along with an extra 1st round pick from Utah. They also own all their future picks and didn't try to trade KAT.
2 Franchises going in complete different directions over 2 years.
Wiggins, Lavine, all of their picks =/= all that similar, even putting aside the fact that they won the lottery.
At the end of the 2015 season, Minny and New York were in similar situations. I know Minnesota had Wiggins/ Lavine and all their picks but they were similar situations. T wolves truly tanked the end of the year while the Knicks won meaningless games that bumped them to 4th. Both teams still came away with 2 franchise talents from the 2015 draft.
Fast forward 2 years and compare the 2. T Wolves have an elite head coach. The Knicks are on their 3rd coach in 2 years and zero direction as a franchise. Minny acquired Jimmy Butler, Jeff Teague, Justin Patton and Taj Gibson this offseason. Along with an extra 1st round pick from Utah. They also own all their future picks and didn't try to trade KAT.
2 Franchises going in complete different directions over 2 years.
I completely disagree that these teams were in similar situations... that's not even remotely true. The T'Wolves have whiffed on a bunch of really high picks (Flynn, Wesley Johnson, Derrick Williams), yet still were in a better position than the Knicks because they've ALWAYS had their picks.
KAT joined a team that already had 4 T'Wolves first round picks on it and that doesn't even include Andrew Wiggins.
KP joined a team that had Jerian Grant.
That's a big difference in assets and upside. Sure the Knicks could've gotten Thibs. Would they be able to trade for Jimmy Butler? No. They don't even have the assets to match the substandard return the Bulls got. I know people hate Phil Jackson, but I seriously doubt even the best of front office people would've turned the Knicks around in 3+ years because they all would've been dealing with the same issue of depleted assets in terms of traded draft picks and a roster without attractive trading pieces like a 25 year-old Kevin Love.
At the end of the 2015 season, Minny and New York were in similar situations. I know Minnesota had Wiggins/ Lavine and all their picks but they were similar situations. T wolves truly tanked the end of the year while the Knicks won meaningless games that bumped them to 4th. Both teams still came away with 2 franchise talents from the 2015 draft.
Fast forward 2 years and compare the 2. T Wolves have an elite head coach. The Knicks are on their 3rd coach in 2 years and zero direction as a franchise. Minny acquired Jimmy Butler, Jeff Teague, Justin Patton and Taj Gibson this offseason. Along with an extra 1st round pick from Utah. They also own all their future picks and didn't try to trade KAT.
2 Franchises going in complete different directions over 2 years.
I completely disagree that these teams were in similar situations... that's not even remotely true. The T'Wolves have whiffed on a bunch of really high picks (Flynn, Wesley Johnson, Derrick Williams), yet still were in a better position than the Knicks because they've ALWAYS had their picks.
KAT joined a team that already had 4 T'Wolves first round picks on it and that doesn't even include Andrew Wiggins.
KP joined a team that had Jerian Grant.
That's a big difference in assets and upside. Sure the Knicks could've gotten Thibs. Would they be able to trade for Jimmy Butler? No. They don't even have the assets to match the substandard return the Bulls got. I know people hate Phil Jackson, but I seriously doubt even the best of front office people would've turned the Knicks around in 3+ years because they all would've been dealing with the same issue of depleted assets in terms of traded draft picks and a roster without attractive trading pieces like a 25 year-old Kevin Love.
And the Knicks had Carmelo who was a year away from finishing 3rd in the MVP voting. Situations aren't all that different.
My overall point is even a dreaful franchise can turn it around with the right leadership. The Knicks don't have that leadership. Every trade/ contract/ signing sucks for the team.
And the Knicks had Carmelo who was a year away from finishing 3rd in the MVP voting. Situations aren't all that different.
My overall point is even a dreaful franchise can turn it around with the right leadership. The Knicks don't have that leadership. Every trade/ contract/ signing sucks for the team.
Whatever one thinks of Phil, he was severely hamstrung by decisions made before he took the job. IMO, the ONLY thing Phil could've done to drastically change the direction of the franchise over the course of 3+ years was to trade Melo immediately. But how many people thought he should do that? I know I didn't.
Everywhere I go, I hear everybody say
‘What you gonna do to make that team play’
From the folks in the street at 34th and 6th
Everyone who calls says, ‘Hey man, fix the Knicks’
(Chorus)
Fix the Knicks and make them shine
Get ’em to win like it’s ’69
Hitting all their free throws and no more shooting bricks
Time to get it right and fix the Knicks
Doing my best and that’s my problem
I check with my friend called Isiah Thomas
Pay no mind to those nasty critics
They haven’t done a thing to fix the Knicks
(Chorus)
We know we’re getting better, but still no respect
We score a lot of points, but where’s the defense?
Everyone’s an expert saying ‘Trade your draft picks’
You got to get ‘this guy’ to fix the Knicks
(Chorus)
At this point Morey can't take anything less than a total fleecing of Â
And the Knicks had Carmelo who was a year away from finishing 3rd in the MVP voting. Situations aren't all that different.
My overall point is even a dreaful franchise can turn it around with the right leadership. The Knicks don't have that leadership. Every trade/ contract/ signing sucks for the team.
Whatever one thinks of Phil, he was severely hamstrung by decisions made before he took the job. IMO, the ONLY thing Phil could've done to drastically change the direction of the franchise over the course of 3+ years was to trade Melo immediately. But how many people thought he should do that? I know I didn't.
Not having draft picks in 2014 and 2016 definitely hurt and probably preventing you from truly rebuilding/tanking. But does anyone believe Phil would have gone through a full rebuild?
Trading Carmelo would have been unpopular and hard to do. But thats what good GMs do. Phil's bad trades is what really hurt the Knicks. He didn't make one good trade. And he definitely could have moved Melo in a sign and trade to get some assets. He was just really bad at his job.
Not having draft picks in 2014 and 2016 definitely hurt and probably preventing you from truly rebuilding/tanking. But does anyone believe Phil would have gone through a full rebuild?
Trading Carmelo would have been unpopular and hard to do. But thats what good GMs do. Phil's bad trades is what really hurt the Knicks. He didn't make one good trade. And he definitely could have moved Melo in a sign and trade to get some assets. He was just really bad at his job.
That leads to the next question of whether Dolan would've allowed Phil to trade Melo 12+ months after he finished top 3 in the MVP voting. Phil was in control, but just like anywhere else, the owner can still make the final decision whenever he wants (like he did when he killed the Rambis head coach idea).
Keeping 1st round picks is hardly a guarantee for success (see some of the AWFUL lottery picks made by Sacramento), but they're extremely valuable assets. Even a guy who hasn't shown much like Kris Dunn has value. We could complain about the coaches, the triangle, the Noah contract, or the return for Tyson Chandler, but think about the players who were drafted in 2014 and 2016 in their spots (Saric and Jamal Murray)... how different would the Knicks look with those guys on the roster? Keep in mind, those 2 weren't even the best players the Knicks could've selected there.
Chris Paul on the possibility of Melo joining Houston- "Man just sit back and wait".
Based off the Baker and THJ contracts, hard to have any faith in Mills or whoever is running things to get a decent return. What a disappointing offseason for the Knicks.
RE: Executive Chairman of Madison Square Garden Comments Â
Everywhere I go, I hear everybody say
‘What you gonna do to make that team play’
From the folks in the street at 34th and 6th
Everyone who calls says, ‘Hey man, fix the Knicks’
(Chorus)
Fix the Knicks and make them shine
Get ’em to win like it’s ’69
Hitting all their free throws and no more shooting bricks
Time to get it right and fix the Knicks
Doing my best and that’s my problem
I check with my friend called Isiah Thomas
Pay no mind to those nasty critics
They haven’t done a thing to fix the Knicks
(Chorus)
We know we’re getting better, but still no respect
We score a lot of points, but where’s the defense?
Everyone’s an expert saying ‘Trade your draft picks’
You got to get ‘this guy’ to fix the Knicks
(Chorus)
I'd question whether this is actually true. But it has to be. It just has to be.
I want Dolan dead. I'm not afraid to say it. Damn me to hell for all I care. I'll burn for all eternity for knicks nation.
37 pts and 7 steals. I know it's summer league but he is draining long threes draining jumpers of the dribble and finishing at the room, but it does not matter because we have frenchy and Baker running the show.
37 pts and 7 steals. I know it's summer league but he is draining long threes draining jumpers of the dribble and finishing at the room, but it does not matter because we have frenchy and Baker running the show.
He looks awesome. Still it's summer league. But the Jazz lose Heyward for nothing and still have a better offseason than the Knicks.
Should I wish him to go broke? Better yet I wish that Dolan would find peace and joy and enlightenment -- enough enlightenment as to sway his mindset and lifestyle away from corporate msg land. He can go off the grid and live a self sustained life. Hunt and gather. That's better.
It's like a sitcom where Mills thinks that if he just starts doing the job, he'll get to keep it.
The ploy will likely work.
I agree that teams would be offering less to take him off of the Knicks hands... just look at how stingy the KP offers were. But we live in a world where Paul George and DeMarcus Cousins (different circumstances, I know) get "disappointing returns".
I think if there were several teams looking at him and saying, "That's a player we absolutely have to acquire", it wouldn't matter. I'm not sure there's even one team saying that. What could we have legitimately expected for a guy who's expensive and clearly past his prime? I just think that drives the return more than anything Phil could've said.
Why are these idiots even bothering with this horseshit now? Phil is gone and he got a pile of money. Was one of "Phil's initiatives" making that imbecile Kurt Rambis the head coach?
Quote:
other crony Ronald Lazenby is now saying Mills was part of the reason Phil didn't work here. Mills "obstructed" Jackson's initiatives.
Why are these idiots even bothering with this horseshit now? Phil is gone and he got a pile of money. Was one of "Phil's initiatives" making that imbecile Kurt Rambis the head coach?
lazenby also proclaimed rambis would be head coach and that he already had the job
Quote:
In comment 13525592 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
other crony Ronald Lazenby is now saying Mills was part of the reason Phil didn't work here. Mills "obstructed" Jackson's initiatives.
Why are these idiots even bothering with this horseshit now? Phil is gone and he got a pile of money. Was one of "Phil's initiatives" making that imbecile Kurt Rambis the head coach?
lazenby also proclaimed rambis would be head coach and that he already had the job
And was a forgettable Bond
Shit, with the amounts that Mills is doling us, it wouldn't surprise me if he signed Noah to that deal.
The ploy will likely work.
Steve Mills: Not Penske material
Because everyone knows that the Knicks are so desperate to be chosen by the player that they dont say no to this stuff. It's a gross lack of organizational self confidence. And no one worries about 3 years later because they'll be thru 2 more GMs by then.
knicks never have leverage because they suck so bad...
look at durant taking less money so the warriors can sign their bench guys and the gm said he offered to take even less...
did melo do that? nope, he could of taken continuous 2 year deals to give knicks flexibility but of course melo had to have his money...
courtney lee has to be kicking himself right now, took less to be here and now he probably wont even start
actually it was magic johnson, they offered him the job first and he said no and said they should hire Isaiah
Sad part is that KP is probably going to come in any play the whole season in F-U mode, and average something like 24-8-2.5, and make Jimmy and Mills look better than they should look.
That's his point. When you are the knicks and you are a joke, players play for money, not to win.
Fast forward 2 years and compare the 2. T Wolves have an elite head coach. The Knicks are on their 3rd coach in 2 years and zero direction as a franchise. Minny acquired Jimmy Butler, Jeff Teague, Justin Patton and Taj Gibson this offseason. Along with an extra 1st round pick from Utah. They also own all their future picks and didn't try to trade KAT.
2 Franchises going in complete different directions over 2 years.
Though I don't think anyone's losing sleep about Jeff Teague.
Though I don't think anyone's losing sleep about Jeff Teague.
Somehow we will end up with Ryan Anderson in the Melo trade and the Rockets will be the ones with the right to swap picks...
Fast forward 2 years and compare the 2. T Wolves have an elite head coach. The Knicks are on their 3rd coach in 2 years and zero direction as a franchise. Minny acquired Jimmy Butler, Jeff Teague, Justin Patton and Taj Gibson this offseason. Along with an extra 1st round pick from Utah. They also own all their future picks and didn't try to trade KAT.
2 Franchises going in complete different directions over 2 years.
Wiggins, Lavine, all of their picks =/= all that similar, even putting aside the fact that they won the lottery.
Fast forward 2 years and compare the 2. T Wolves have an elite head coach. The Knicks are on their 3rd coach in 2 years and zero direction as a franchise. Minny acquired Jimmy Butler, Jeff Teague, Justin Patton and Taj Gibson this offseason. Along with an extra 1st round pick from Utah. They also own all their future picks and didn't try to trade KAT.
2 Franchises going in complete different directions over 2 years.
I completely disagree that these teams were in similar situations... that's not even remotely true. The T'Wolves have whiffed on a bunch of really high picks (Flynn, Wesley Johnson, Derrick Williams), yet still were in a better position than the Knicks because they've ALWAYS had their picks.
KAT joined a team that already had 4 T'Wolves first round picks on it and that doesn't even include Andrew Wiggins.
KP joined a team that had Jerian Grant.
That's a big difference in assets and upside. Sure the Knicks could've gotten Thibs. Would they be able to trade for Jimmy Butler? No. They don't even have the assets to match the substandard return the Bulls got. I know people hate Phil Jackson, but I seriously doubt even the best of front office people would've turned the Knicks around in 3+ years because they all would've been dealing with the same issue of depleted assets in terms of traded draft picks and a roster without attractive trading pieces like a 25 year-old Kevin Love.
Quote:
At the end of the 2015 season, Minny and New York were in similar situations. I know Minnesota had Wiggins/ Lavine and all their picks but they were similar situations. T wolves truly tanked the end of the year while the Knicks won meaningless games that bumped them to 4th. Both teams still came away with 2 franchise talents from the 2015 draft.
Fast forward 2 years and compare the 2. T Wolves have an elite head coach. The Knicks are on their 3rd coach in 2 years and zero direction as a franchise. Minny acquired Jimmy Butler, Jeff Teague, Justin Patton and Taj Gibson this offseason. Along with an extra 1st round pick from Utah. They also own all their future picks and didn't try to trade KAT.
2 Franchises going in complete different directions over 2 years.
I completely disagree that these teams were in similar situations... that's not even remotely true. The T'Wolves have whiffed on a bunch of really high picks (Flynn, Wesley Johnson, Derrick Williams), yet still were in a better position than the Knicks because they've ALWAYS had their picks.
KAT joined a team that already had 4 T'Wolves first round picks on it and that doesn't even include Andrew Wiggins.
KP joined a team that had Jerian Grant.
That's a big difference in assets and upside. Sure the Knicks could've gotten Thibs. Would they be able to trade for Jimmy Butler? No. They don't even have the assets to match the substandard return the Bulls got. I know people hate Phil Jackson, but I seriously doubt even the best of front office people would've turned the Knicks around in 3+ years because they all would've been dealing with the same issue of depleted assets in terms of traded draft picks and a roster without attractive trading pieces like a 25 year-old Kevin Love.
And the Knicks had Carmelo who was a year away from finishing 3rd in the MVP voting. Situations aren't all that different.
My overall point is even a dreaful franchise can turn it around with the right leadership. The Knicks don't have that leadership. Every trade/ contract/ signing sucks for the team.
And the Knicks had Carmelo who was a year away from finishing 3rd in the MVP voting. Situations aren't all that different.
My overall point is even a dreaful franchise can turn it around with the right leadership. The Knicks don't have that leadership. Every trade/ contract/ signing sucks for the team.
Whatever one thinks of Phil, he was severely hamstrung by decisions made before he took the job. IMO, the ONLY thing Phil could've done to drastically change the direction of the franchise over the course of 3+ years was to trade Melo immediately. But how many people thought he should do that? I know I didn't.
Everywhere I go, I hear everybody say
‘What you gonna do to make that team play’
From the folks in the street at 34th and 6th
Everyone who calls says, ‘Hey man, fix the Knicks’
(Chorus)
Fix the Knicks and make them shine
Get ’em to win like it’s ’69
Hitting all their free throws and no more shooting bricks
Time to get it right and fix the Knicks
Doing my best and that’s my problem
I check with my friend called Isiah Thomas
Pay no mind to those nasty critics
They haven’t done a thing to fix the Knicks
(Chorus)
We know we’re getting better, but still no respect
We score a lot of points, but where’s the defense?
Everyone’s an expert saying ‘Trade your draft picks’
You got to get ‘this guy’ to fix the Knicks
(Chorus)
Quote:
And the Knicks had Carmelo who was a year away from finishing 3rd in the MVP voting. Situations aren't all that different.
My overall point is even a dreaful franchise can turn it around with the right leadership. The Knicks don't have that leadership. Every trade/ contract/ signing sucks for the team.
Whatever one thinks of Phil, he was severely hamstrung by decisions made before he took the job. IMO, the ONLY thing Phil could've done to drastically change the direction of the franchise over the course of 3+ years was to trade Melo immediately. But how many people thought he should do that? I know I didn't.
Not having draft picks in 2014 and 2016 definitely hurt and probably preventing you from truly rebuilding/tanking. But does anyone believe Phil would have gone through a full rebuild?
Trading Carmelo would have been unpopular and hard to do. But thats what good GMs do. Phil's bad trades is what really hurt the Knicks. He didn't make one good trade. And he definitely could have moved Melo in a sign and trade to get some assets. He was just really bad at his job.
freat defensive mind but he is a bad head coach...
his bulls teams were anchkred by a great defensive player and his kffense was carried by derrick rose...
Not having draft picks in 2014 and 2016 definitely hurt and probably preventing you from truly rebuilding/tanking. But does anyone believe Phil would have gone through a full rebuild?
Trading Carmelo would have been unpopular and hard to do. But thats what good GMs do. Phil's bad trades is what really hurt the Knicks. He didn't make one good trade. And he definitely could have moved Melo in a sign and trade to get some assets. He was just really bad at his job.
That leads to the next question of whether Dolan would've allowed Phil to trade Melo 12+ months after he finished top 3 in the MVP voting. Phil was in control, but just like anywhere else, the owner can still make the final decision whenever he wants (like he did when he killed the Rambis head coach idea).
Keeping 1st round picks is hardly a guarantee for success (see some of the AWFUL lottery picks made by Sacramento), but they're extremely valuable assets. Even a guy who hasn't shown much like Kris Dunn has value. We could complain about the coaches, the triangle, the Noah contract, or the return for Tyson Chandler, but think about the players who were drafted in 2014 and 2016 in their spots (Saric and Jamal Murray)... how different would the Knicks look with those guys on the roster? Keep in mind, those 2 weren't even the best players the Knicks could've selected there.
Based off the Baker and THJ contracts, hard to have any faith in Mills or whoever is running things to get a decent return. What a disappointing offseason for the Knicks.
Everywhere I go, I hear everybody say
‘What you gonna do to make that team play’
From the folks in the street at 34th and 6th
Everyone who calls says, ‘Hey man, fix the Knicks’
(Chorus)
Fix the Knicks and make them shine
Get ’em to win like it’s ’69
Hitting all their free throws and no more shooting bricks
Time to get it right and fix the Knicks
Doing my best and that’s my problem
I check with my friend called Isiah Thomas
Pay no mind to those nasty critics
They haven’t done a thing to fix the Knicks
(Chorus)
We know we’re getting better, but still no respect
We score a lot of points, but where’s the defense?
Everyone’s an expert saying ‘Trade your draft picks’
You got to get ‘this guy’ to fix the Knicks
(Chorus)
I'd question whether this is actually true. But it has to be. It just has to be.
I want Dolan dead. I'm not afraid to say it. Damn me to hell for all I care. I'll burn for all eternity for knicks nation.
He looks awesome. Still it's summer league. But the Jazz lose Heyward for nothing and still have a better offseason than the Knicks.
You're trying to make a joke, but there's a good chance getting Sam Cassell would be better value than whatever the Knicks get back for Melo.
Quote:
Knicks just traded Carmelo Anthony for the rights to Sam Cassell! Nice job Mills. Great PG.
You're trying to make a joke, but there's a good chance getting Sam Cassell would be better value than whatever the Knicks get back for Melo.
Like I said. Nice job Mills.