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Why Giants QB Eli Manning is a lock for Hall of Fame

Oldschoolgiant : 7/10/2017 11:30 am
Numbers don't lie:
Eli is a lock - ( New Window )
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As others have said...  
ZGiants98 : 7/10/2017 7:05 pm : link
If he retired today, he's a lock IMO. What he does over the next 3-4 years will determine if he's first ballot or not.
Interceptions  
gogiants : 7/10/2017 7:05 pm : link
Parcells to Phil Simms before an opening game in 1984 "‘If you don’t throw two interceptions today, you’re not taking enough chances."
Favre, Moon, Marino & Fouts = 1 Combined Super Bowl Victory  
Jimmy Googs : 7/10/2017 7:15 pm : link
Eli Manning = 2 Super Bowl Victories

i think he makes it in...
Where's Dep?  
Marty866b : 7/10/2017 7:56 pm : link
An Eli Manning discussion without Dep just seems wrong here. BTW,Eli is a lock. No doubt about it.
Cam has had a good career  
hassan : 7/10/2017 8:19 pm : link
While he does not have a body of work like Eli and is at risk of being ineffective going forward. But MVP means a lot and it is why he will be mentioned by the likes of espn. Personally he won't even make another pro bowl is my guess-the hits have hurt and his game is not to stay in the pocket.
If a bunch of computers were crunching stats and then choosing  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 7/10/2017 10:48 pm : link
who belongs, Eli would probably do fine.

It's not computers. Eli has a lot of detractors who think he is soft, unathletic, prone to tossing the ball up for grabs when under pressure.

They don't think that he deserved being a two time SB MVP. They would like to say publicly what they already say privately: that the Tyree pass and catch was one of the biggest flukes in the history of the sport.

Funny that when they talk about the Immaculate Reception, they don't call that a lucky fluke.
Really?  
lono801 : 7/11/2017 12:21 am : link
Jesus....
Even on BBI, Big Ben is overrated  
SHO'NUFF : 7/11/2017 5:28 am : link
How is he a lock, when we're not in agreement about Eli? The volume stats should not be heavily weighted in this day and age. If so, Rivers is HoF material, when in reality, he is not. It's a slippery slope because it paves the way for fantasy football Superstars that are undeserving.
RE: Even on BBI, Big Ben is overrated  
SGMen : 7/11/2017 5:47 am : link
In comment 13525055 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
How is he a lock, when we're not in agreement about Eli? The volume stats should not be heavily weighted in this day and age. If so, Rivers is HoF material, when in reality, he is not. It's a slippery slope because it paves the way for fantasy football Superstars that are undeserving.
Fantasy Football has definitely made things worse for Eli cause he isn't the "stat" guy that many others are, including Rivers in some years.

I still believe that all Eli needs is a big year this year for FF points; for NFC EAST champion points; for playoff points; and, for national TV points as we'll be on quite a bit; and finally another SB ring and he is a HoF lock even if he isn't SB MVP.
One thing about Eli that gets wildly overlooked,  
Section331 : 7/11/2017 9:21 am : link
even here on BBI, is how much impact he had on the 2nd SB run. He had the lowest ranked defense AND the lowest ranked running game in the NFL, and single-handedly kept his team in the hunt. Has another QB won a SB with the lowest ranked D and running games?

Add in 2 SB MVP's, and Fats makes a great point about how both of those being v. TOm Brady will play voters, and I think think Eli is knocking on the door. I'm not going to say he's a lock, there is this absurd anti-Eli bias among the media, but barring a complete meltdown, he's in.
And I will add one more thing -  
Section331 : 7/11/2017 9:22 am : link
getting to a SB isn't the same as winning it. Talk to me when Ryan, Cam, et al, have won SB's, not simply gotten there.
RE: One thing about Eli that gets wildly overlooked,  
Britt in VA : 7/11/2017 9:53 am : link
In comment 13525102 Section331 said:
Quote:
even here on BBI, is how much impact he had on the 2nd SB run. He had the lowest ranked defense AND the lowest ranked running game in the NFL, and single-handedly kept his team in the hunt. Has another QB won a SB with the lowest ranked D and running games?

Add in 2 SB MVP's, and Fats makes a great point about how both of those being v. TOm Brady will play voters, and I think think Eli is knocking on the door. I'm not going to say he's a lock, there is this absurd anti-Eli bias among the media, but barring a complete meltdown, he's in.


Another thing often not discussed about that year, were the two records he broke/tied.

7 4th quarter comebacks that season (tied for most ever)
14 4th quarter TD passes (broke longstanding record held by Unitas/Peyton)
Excuse me, 15 4th quarter TD passes  
Britt in VA : 7/11/2017 9:59 am : link
The previous record was 14.
Also, the significance of being the ONLY quarterback...  
Britt in VA : 7/11/2017 10:01 am : link
to beat Brady and Belichick, twice.

Including 18-0, which historically has the significance of the Jets over the Colts in Superbowl III. Not to mention arguably the greatest play in NFL history.
His resume is rock solid,  
Britt in VA : 7/11/2017 10:03 am : link
and frankly the ONLY thing many of these guys today that are considered locks are compiler stats. That's all they have. They don't win in the playoffs, they don't have rings, and they don't have any records or signature plays of significance other than large yard and TD totals. That's all they've got.
RE: Even on BBI, Big Ben is overrated  
Section331 : 7/11/2017 10:10 am : link
In comment 13525055 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
How is he a lock, when we're not in agreement about Eli? The volume stats should not be heavily weighted in this day and age. If so, Rivers is HoF material, when in reality, he is not. It's a slippery slope because it paves the way for fantasy football Superstars that are undeserving.


This is one of my big peeves on BBI, posters who claim Ben is a lock but Eli isn't. I think their cases are remarkably similar, Ben has a slight statistical advantage due to fewer TO's, Eli has the better performances in the big games (sorry, but Ben's first SB win was one of the worst QB performances in SB history). Ben was really good in the win over AZ, but also lost a playoff game to Tim fucking Tebow.

Personally, I don't think either is a lock, but both are really, really close.
First of all  
hassan : 7/11/2017 10:28 am : link
Brees Brady Rodgers and Big Ben and p Manning the locks are all super bowl winners and stat compilers. No one else is a lock and no one is making it just for stat compilation.

Ben R plays for a beloved franchise and has had a stat surge in his late years that helps his cause. And has made the bowl three times which helps.

If Eli played for gb or Pitt his odds would go up significantly.

Section331  
hassan : 7/11/2017 10:30 am : link
Ben is NOT much more deserving, maybe slightly more deserving, but the Steelers logo adds a lot of luster for a hof case.
How does eli..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/11/2017 10:34 am : link
get dinged for stats when he's in the top 10 of several key QB categories?

The logic used to poke holes in his candidacy is really poor.

Troy Aikman was never a stats star, but he won titles. Eli has the stats and the titles.

TRhen you have the Ben R vs. Eli comps where if you say Ben R is a lock and say Eli isn't, it is laughable by almost every metric. They have an almost identical stat line, right down to the number of titles.
Cam Newton  
Go Terps : 7/11/2017 10:35 am : link
Simply put, Cam Newton quit in the Super Bowl. In 30 years of watching sports I can't recall an athlete having a worse moment in a bigger situation. He could throw for 200,000 yards and 1,000 TDs...when he retires the first sentence in the summary of his career should be, "He quit in the Super Bowl."

You guys think I'm tough on Beckham; if Newton were our QB I'd post that GIF every day.
Lock.  
trueblueinpw : 7/11/2017 10:39 am : link
The most interesting thing on this thread is the notion that Eli and Romo are peers. They both played in the NFL. They both played in the NFC East. Not too sure what else they share in terms of accomplishments on the football field. I think Romo is by far the most overrated QB in the NFL during the four decades I've been watching. As long as we aren't counting big games, you can go ahead and put Rivers and Eli in the same group but not Romo. Gadzooks!
I think he's a HOFer  
Enzo : 7/11/2017 10:40 am : link
but I don't think it's a lock that the HOF voters elect anyone beyond the obvious upper tier from his era (Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers).
FMIC  
hassan : 7/11/2017 10:44 am : link
I won't bother getting into the stat discussion again but Ben R has a career rating 11 points higher than Eli with three super bowl appearances.

He is a similar player historically with less mistakes and a better logo in the court of public opinion. That is hardly laughable.



And btw fmic  
hassan : 7/11/2017 10:46 am : link
You suggested players with aggregate stats on offense always make it. Why are Bruce and Holt not in yet?

Maybe there is a growing recognition of the fantasy era we are in overstating the value of these players.
Kurt Warner..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/11/2017 10:48 am : link
being in the Hall paves the way for a lot of guys who have titles. You can't make many arguments for Warner that aren't covered when talking about Eli or Ben.

and that's the rub - for every QB with questionable credentials - Eli passes him on a couple or several levels.

Moon - no NFL titles, but longevity and the CFL career - Eli - 2 SB MVP's and in the top 10 for stats

Namath - Made a bold prediction and won a SB vs. the NFL stalwart Colts. Star of NYC - Eli has 2 SB MVP's vs. the NFL stalwart Pats's. Star of NYC

Warner - went from grocery store guy to NFL MVP and SB winner. Short career - Eli has the longevity and two titles

There's really not going to be a compelling argument to keep him out and when HoF voters look up and see a guy in the top 5 of almost every QB stat, with what might end up being the longest consecutive game streak ever - he's a lock.
I forgot about the Cam Newton "play"  
Ron Johnson 30 : 7/11/2017 10:51 am : link
man, that is ugly. How does a player live that down?
I think..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/11/2017 10:54 am : link
both Bruce and Holt will be in the HoF at some point.

And again - if you overvalue stats with Eli, you then have the two titles and MVP's.

What I'm saying is that by some criteria, Eli has it covered, whether it be statistical - titles - consecutive game streak (toughness) - high-profile team.

Making it seem like the steelers are a vaunted franchise and the Giants aren't is also disingenuous.

If voters point to weaknesses in Eli, you can literally point to several players already in the Hall that eli is better than on any of his "weaknesses". Voters will put him in, and 5 years after he's done playing, the legacy of beating Brady will remain strong - especially if no other QB beats him - Thank You Matt ryan!!
There is only one QB that won two Super Bowls who isn't in Canton  
Greg from LI : 7/11/2017 10:59 am : link
And it's Jim Plunkett, who was awful early in his career in New England and San Francisco before landing in Oakland as Stabler's backup. Every other multiple SB-winning QB is in the Hall.
Saying the Steelers  
hassan : 7/11/2017 11:17 am : link
Have more cachet than ny Giants isn't suggesting the NY Giants are chopped liver. You yourself have researched ref bias against nyg. There are lots of writers who are anti ny. So 'disingenuous'??

We have beaten this to death. I would suggest Eli is a polarizing figure and may be the outlier.
RE: Section331  
Section331 : 7/11/2017 11:20 am : link
In comment 13525193 hassan said:
Quote:
Ben is NOT much more deserving, maybe slightly more deserving, but the Steelers logo adds a lot of luster for a hof case.


Why does a Steelers' logo add more luster than a Giants'? I don't buy that at all.
RE: FMIC  
Section331 : 7/11/2017 11:25 am : link
In comment 13525207 hassan said:
Quote:
I won't bother getting into the stat discussion again but Ben R has a career rating 11 points higher than Eli with three super bowl appearances.

He is a similar player historically with less mistakes and a better logo in the court of public opinion. That is hardly laughable.



And he also won SB's with the 4th rated defense and 5th rated rushing attack, and then the highest rated for both. Context matters. Again, Eli's 2nd SB is all on him. I can't think of any SB winning QB who did more with less.
If Eli stays on pace  
blueblood : 7/11/2017 11:26 am : link
in three years he will have all the numbers needed to get in.. but he wont be first ballot..

Another Superbowl ring would help immensely..

Beating Tom Brady again in a SB would make it a lock..
Section  
hassan : 7/11/2017 11:27 am : link
Read any Harris poll-Pitt is a more popular te than nyg consistently
But..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/11/2017 11:51 am : link
Quote:
Saying the Steelers
hassan : 11:17 am : link : reply
Have more cachet than ny Giants isn't suggesting the NY Giants are chopped liver. You yourself have researched ref bias against nyg


The research also showed a bias against Pitt too. What the research showed was the teams who supported replacement refs way back in the day found themselves consistently on the short end of calls. Mara and Rooney were both supporters.

The images of the Steelers and the Giants are quite similar, down to a professional friendship. Basically saying that the steelers logo holds more sway is splitting hairs, since both are flagship franchises of the NFL. It would be like comparing the status of the Bears vs. the Lions.
Eli is a lock  
Rudy5757 : 7/11/2017 12:14 pm : link
Just not a lock for 1st ballot. The problem with the HOF is there is no consistency on why one person gets in and another doesn't. Eli has some good strong case for and a good case against.

The Good - 2 SB MVPs, consecutive games streak, longevity, 1 really great season, a few very strong seasons, lots of TDs, holds several NFL records

The Bad - average W/L record, low completion %, only 4 pro bowls in 13 seasons, led the league in INTs several times, high INT totals, inconsistent, Never an All-Pro, Never a league MVP


I like Eli, I think he is a very good QB but to my eye he was never one of the best that I've seen. I personally think the HOF should be reserved for the best of the best. Eli has provided some great moments but not a great consistent career. A HOFer should have can have bad games but shouldnt have bad seasons or st least not until the end. Stats are good and all but I think you need at least 10 seasons in the NFL or at least 5 pro bowls or 1 league MVP to be considered. It's OK to not have someone voted in every year.

Just look at the difference between 2 QBs who played a lot in the same era Eli Manning and Peyton Manning. Eli's stats are not even close to Peyton. That's the type of people he should be compared to, the best of the best. I would put Eli in the 2nd tier of QBs in his Era with guys like Romo. Very good just not great but you see a lot of very good in the HOF too and Eli will get there but may not be 1st ballot, depends on who else is there when election time comes.



But you can't do this...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/11/2017 12:19 pm : link
Quote:
Just look at the difference between 2 QBs who played a lot in the same era Eli Manning and Peyton Manning. Eli's stats are not even close to Peyton.


If you are going to do side-by-sides will you normalize for things like playing in a dome? If Eli plays another 4 years, he will compare very favorably with Peyton, and even if he doesn't play again, he'd have 2 SB MVP's, beating the best team in football both times.

What I keep saying is that where Eli has a weakness, it is made up with a strength that bolsters the HoF argument. Eli is 2-0 in SB's, being the MVP twice. His brother has a horrendous loss in a SB and another loss. Eli has had to play in the NFC East his entire career. Peyton could sleepwalk through the regular season most years and get to the postseason.
I think he's in  
Mike in Long Beach : 7/11/2017 12:27 pm : link
more likely than not.

But "lock" is a word that means 100%, and it's not 100%.

So no, he is not a lock.
Eli should be in.  
BrettNYG10 : 7/11/2017 2:25 pm : link
I just don't have the same faith in the voters that some of you do.

I think of the active guys right now, Brees, Big Ben, Brady, Rodgers definitely get in. Eli is a likely to me. I'm ignoring some of the younger guys like Luck for now.

I also think Ryan gets in if he wins a Super Bowl.
I don't have faith in the voters either  
djm : 7/11/2017 2:39 pm : link
but I thin Eli will be the exception to the dumb anti NY bias rule. Eli has a lot of cache with the media. He's always been open and media friendly and just his name alone, the guy's an NFL pillar.

Anyone else (NYG bubble HOF) and i'd be leery but I think Eli will beat the odds.
I think Eli is one of the more unique cases.  
BrettNYG10 : 7/11/2017 2:53 pm : link
If he didn't have the rings, he wouldn't get in. If he didn't have the longevity, he wouldn't get in either. Only once (IMO, and the media disagrees) was he a top 3 QB during the season.

I don't think the comparisons to the other multiple SB winning QB's is appropriate - outside of Ben, the others had far superior regular season accolades. I think I'd put Eli in before Ben, but I doubt the average voter agrees.
But then,  
Doomster : 7/11/2017 4:36 pm : link
Eli is a lock
Rudy5757 : 12:14 pm : link : reply
Just look at the difference between 2 QBs who played a lot in the same era Eli Manning and Peyton Manning. Eli's stats are not even close to Peyton. That's the type of people he should be compared to, the best of the best.


Then every ball player should be compared to Babe Ruth......if they did that, the Hall would be empty....

It's not just about his stats....what about his team's stats? What did he have for a defense? What did he have for a running game? What did he have for receivers? He hasn't had a decent OL, the last 5 seasons, and yet he still put up respectable stats....the last 5 seasons, he has had an injured Nicks, an injured Cruz, and no TE's. Outside of OBj, and a rookie slot receiver, who did he have to throw to last season? Besides Bradshaw in 2012, who has Eli had for a RB these past 5 seasons? It's hard to carry the offense when you have no OL and no weapons....
RE: Section  
Section331 : 7/11/2017 4:54 pm : link
In comment 13525274 hassan said:
Quote:
Read any Harris poll-Pitt is a more popular te than nyg consistently


Even if this is true, it has no bearing on any HOF vote. Any voter who thinks, "If he played for Pitt, I'd vote for him, but..." shouldn't have his/her vote pulled, he/she should be fired. The organization a player plays for his no bearing on whether he's a HOF'er or not.
RE: RE: Section  
Enzo : 7/11/2017 4:56 pm : link
In comment 13525681 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 13525274 hassan said:


Quote:


Read any Harris poll-Pitt is a more popular te than nyg consistently



Even if this is true, it has no bearing on any HOF vote. Any voter who thinks, "If he played for Pitt, I'd vote for him, but..." shouldn't have his/her vote pulled, he/she should be fired. The organization a player plays for his no bearing on whether he's a HOF'er or not.

agree with this, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were voters from other parts of the country that felt Eli was the benefit of the NY media hype machine.
The NY media hypes up Eli Manning to be more than he is?  
Jimmy Googs : 7/11/2017 5:18 pm : link
i gotta' think about that one...
Enzo has it right  
hassan : 7/11/2017 5:40 pm : link
Section the voters are dumb and have an anti ny bias overall. Hence my bringing this up. Should it matter? Of course not. Will it be a real obstacle? Yes, I believe so.
The NY media definitely does NOT hype up Eli Manning  
SGMen : 7/11/2017 7:31 pm : link
Yes, they give him props for two SB's BUT they give him more digs for interceptions in key spots and times than anything else. NY is a tough town and they are tough on Eli.

Think about it: if Eli had 2 less interceptions in big spots per season (just 2 passes) we likely wouldn't be debating whether he deserves HOF first ballot or not. That is how close it is in my humble opinion. A key bad toss on prime time here and there each season has left Eli's rep a bit tarnished.

But one last time: have a big year this year, statistically and in the playoffs, and Eli is a first ballot lock with another ring, MVP or not.
Look...if he simply just stopped throwing pick-6s versus Eagles  
Jimmy Googs : 7/11/2017 8:47 pm : link
he would be a lock.

But alas, it likely will continue...
One reason why he is NOT a "LOCK"  
EricJ : 7/11/2017 8:55 pm : link
is that this is a vote and many of the voters are not pro-Eli.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 7/13/2017 4:56 pm : link
This article makes the argument Eli is unlikely to get in because of his lack of credentials. I think it's a bit harsh.
Football Perspective - ( New Window )
He is not a "lock"  
annexOPR : 7/13/2017 6:51 pm : link
he's been hated on / ridiculously underrated throughout his career ... they will knock his all time stats as being part of an easier era to throw ...

He is nowhere near a lock. (This has nothing to do with how I feel about him. Talk to pretty much any non Giant fan and Eli is not so highly regarded. I've loved Eli ever since that brutal NFC championship against San Fran ... surviving that game alone should get him into the HOF)
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