Manning gets picked apart more than any other two-time Super Bowl MVP. Then again, there are very few players that would even qualify for such criticism. Manning, Terry Bradshaw, Bart Starr, Joe Montana and Tom Brady are the only players to win multiple Super Bowl MVP awards
I would totally LOVE to see Eli Manning have his career year this year Â
That 4800-45-8 type year that gets him All-PRO honors; another SB ring; and automatic HOF entrance. If he wins a 3rd SB ring, MVP or not, he is a LOCK even if he doesn't have ALL-PRO numbers.
Eli's biggest issue as a pro is that he sometimes tries to force the ball when he should throw it away. That is the one area of his game that has hurt him and brought ridicule to his resume.
Eli is NFL royalty. He's one of the ambassadors of the game. Some of the biggest moments in NFL history are plastered with Eli Manning's play. He's got longevity and stats for days. With every TD and big play made he cements his place in Canton more and more.
He's not even done playing yet. Let the ink dry on his career before we even debate this but as of this moment it would be next to impossible to keep Eli out of Canton.
Don't expect first ballot but Eli will make the HOF. IF he has another insane postseason run he will be first ballot. If he compiles a lot more he will be first ballot. In other words, Eli Manning has got a lot of outs.
He's not any kind of lock. He may get in he may not.
QB stats look very different in 21st century. By this argument Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan should he get to another super bowl, and others will be locks as well.
Brees Brady Rodgers and Ben R will get in before Manning as his contemporaries go. His brother as well. Rivers is a peer to Eli without wins in playoff so he probably waits longer but statistically a peer. Romo as well same as Rivers.
When you had ONE WR, no running backs, a third tier TE and you complain why any QB forces it in ....
When your OT jumps, or holds while waiting for your one WR to get open and your great play on 3 and 5 becomes longer and you throw a pick you wonder why its forced in ....
I do think Eli tosses more than his share of INT's.
But there have many times he had little choice.
He will not be a first ballot HOF player in part because his brother will be, and second his own fans do not fully appreciate his efforts being the greatest QB in the history of Giants football.
Being a simms guy growing up, at least he had great defenses around him. Big Ben with Pittsburgh always seems o have top 5 defenses with skill players.
This season will tell us a lot with a tough schedule on the docket and "on paper" a better squad? Will see.
He's not any kind of lock. He may get in he may not.
QB stats look very different in 21st century. By this argument Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan should he get to another super bowl, and others will be locks as well.
Brees Brady Rodgers and Ben R will get in before Manning as his contemporaries go. His brother as well. Rivers is a peer to Eli without wins in playoff so he probably waits longer but statistically a peer. Romo as well same as Rivers.
A lot of qbs already there in discussion.
Manning is a lock if he has a great year that leads to a SB ring #3. Even if he isn't SB MVP, a third ring and a solid season (probowl type stats) get him in. This is the best set of skill players he's ever had during his tenure in NY. If he finally has that 4800-40-8 type of year and follows with a ring he is a lock for the HOF first ballot. But that is asking an awful lot.
But I get the arguments for why he wouldn't be first ballot as he does have some serious contemporary competition as noted.
Eli is NFL royalty. He's one of the ambassadors of the game. Some of the biggest moments in NFL history are plastered with Eli Manning's play. He's got longevity and stats for days. With every TD and big play made he cements his place in Canton more and more.
He's not even done playing yet. Let the ink dry on his career before we even debate this but as of this moment it would be next to impossible to keep Eli out of Canton.
Don't expect first ballot but Eli will make the HOF. IF he has another insane postseason run he will be first ballot. If he compiles a lot more he will be first ballot. In other words, Eli Manning has got a lot of outs.
I do expect first ballot, or the whole hof is a sham.
He is not a lock today. A lot of writers list him on overrated lists and can't get past his campaigns like 2013. Fair or not these are the voters.
And the article citing the volume stats are ridiculous. Elis best case for hof I is his awesome road warrior record in the playoffs and his sb runs. I believe he needs to add to those or go out with a few more top notch ratings.
The passing records will be wiped clean with new players in next 15 years. Those lists will change very soon.
We have had this debate many times
hassan : 12:08 pm : link : reply
He's not any kind of lock. He may get in he may not.
Guys like Namath and Bradshaw are in the Hall. Eli will be too, if only for the 2 SB wins and stat compilation. Even if he were to retire now, he'd be the #1 QB in several stats left out of the Hall.
that he had 2 4th quarter comebacks against the Patriots in the Super Bowl. Each with its own amazing Pass/Catch. He did it twice, against the juggernauts, when all the chips were in the middle of the table.
I was thinking he shouldn't be a first ballet lock, but just because of the teams he beat to win those Super Bowls. He should be a first ballet HOF!
The voters won't want to include more than two or three qbs from the aughts through now. Brady P Manning and Brees will get those slots.
They will have to include more as it was the era of qbs-Ben r gets in so does Rodgers.
The careers of Ryan and Wilson will loom large by the time Eli voting starts-Ryan has a chance to get playoff success. Wilson qb rating will be much higher than Eli most likely if he gets to another sb he could lock Eli out as well.
Anyone who says it's clear cut either way is not looking at the fuller picture.
HoF enshrinement for Piazza, I would love to drive to Ohio for Eli's enshrinement.
I think he has a great chance. Some great numbers ... playing on the largest stage with the most scrutiny ... handling it beautifully ... and his durability as an NFL quarterback. Then we get to his two rings and two SB MVPs.
Even if he doesn't win another title - which please sweet baby Jesus, all 6 pounds 7 ounces of you make that happen at LEAST once - I still think his chances are very good.
The Hall of Fame is inconsistent with its criteria. More than anything these days, it boils down to whether the voters like you. Jerome Bettis is in the Hall of Fame, but Terrell Owens has to wait.
is that Eli is in the Top 10 already in TD's, yards, completions and attempts. Add in his consevutive games streak, the 2 SB wins and MVP's and his Manning name, and he's a lock for the HoF.
Even inflated passing statistics aren't enough for voters to keep a guy with hardware and stats out.
The big picture simply rewards stat compilers and guys who are in the top 10 ALLTIME in categories. The last thing voters want to look is foolish or have to answer questions year in and out on how they could exclude a player in the top 7 of multiple categories out of the Hall.
yes I would agree Eli seems like a more logical HOF pick than Len Dawson or Namath (not Bradshaw but that is another debate).
However, he faces huge competition moreso than those QBs you mentioned.
If the hall is of the mind to push 8-10 qbs (and the hall certainly has its weirdness which could effect this),in from a 15-25 year span than I think he gets in today without another snap. If its a smaller set then I think he is a case where his enshrinment get delayed like a Harry Carson or a Stabler or even outright passed over, or he needs another good run to push other qb contemporaries out.
if Eli were simply a guy who amassed stats without any titles or MVP's, it becomes a different discussion. An Archie Manning discussion.
But when guys like George Blanda are in the Hall for stat compilation, or Bob Griese for being part of the Dolphins SB's, Eli's getting in. Maybe not first ballot, but he's a lock to get in. They are more nostalgic now, but guys like Bart Starr and Roger Staubach were as much a product of their team's success and reputation than carrying teams, and they are both rightfully in the HoF.
Kurt Warner is in the HoF.
If eli were to be left out, you'd have arguments from both a statistical point and a team success point where he is head and shoulders above other people already enshrined. Heck, if he plays 2 more years, he'll retire in the top 5 or higher in most statistical categories.
When OJ Anderson was left out of the Hall retiring as the 9th leading rusher of all-time, the voters used the logic that he didn't have enough sustained longevity. They won't be able to use that argument for Eli.
Also, don't underestimate how his consecutive games streak is viewed.
a lock. He might not get in on the first ballot because we don't know who else will be nominated at that time. But he''ll get in very quickly, as he should. He doesn't need a third SB MVP to be inducted IMO.
He's not any kind of lock. He may get in he may not.
QB stats look very different in 21st century. By this argument Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan should he get to another super bowl, and others will be locks as well.
Brees Brady Rodgers and Ben R will get in before Manning as his contemporaries go. His brother as well. Rivers is a peer to Eli without wins in playoff so he probably waits longer but statistically a peer. Romo as well same as Rivers.
A lot of qbs already there in discussion.
I very much disagree. If he doesn't play another down he gets in, the question is just when. He can still dictate how fast he gets in but 2 rings + 2 SB MVPS in addition to his iron man streak isn't something that will be glossed over (which you'd have to do to keep him out).
the article I posted claims Eli is at a 40pct chance. Says Luck is at 55% at Cam is at 80%, Wilson also high. I may personally disagree with some or all being more likely or fair., but ESPN is reflective of a writer aggregation of opinion, sad as that may be.
And btw, those older examples are really not good. Stats were such a different animal in football back then and guys on great teams made it in way more often than will be the case going forward (see Blanda, Swann, Griese, etc).
In our fantasy obsessed era, Eli will need to not drop significantly on those lists by the time balloting happens for him (a class of guys waiting to add number to pass by him) and would be helped with another deep playoff run significantly.
Eli has about as many halftime heave/2 minute drill down late when the games over chuck and hope to score 60 yards downfield type picks when the game is already over or the play is essentially meaningless out of any quarterback I can remember. He isn't obsessed over his pick numbers and stats. He is a lock.
And btw, those older examples are really not good. Stats were such a different animal in football back then and guys on great teams made it in way more often than will be the case going forward
That's one of the reasons Eli is a lock. He isn't just a stats guy, he also has the rings and an impressive consecutive games streak.
What I'm saying is he has all the bases covered. He checks all the boxes.
He's not done anything to piss off the voting body and heck, he'll get a lot of votes, not just because of the SB MVP's, but because he beat Brady in both. There's no way Brady's foil gets left out.
Says he has a 70ish pct chance, but acknolwedges the glut of contemporaries ahead of Eli which the model does not factor for. Says if he wins another super bowl its 97% likely. That to me is a lock.
for the record, I do think he deserves it for the reasons you stated. But I dont feel he is a lock as already stated.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. For me he checks the hardware box, the longevity box, and is already high enough on some of the all time stat categories that the box is somewhat checked now already. I also don't believe their is going to be an agenda of limiting X players at a given position. IN reality there's really only 5 guys ahead of him in this era (Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, I guess Roethlisberger) and that hardly seems like enough players to implement a cutoff. Factor in Newton and anyone else playing for the next 10 years and they won't even be a factor for the current crop.
and he will get it this year. fades to Marshall, slants to Beckham, outs to Shepard, deep middle to Engram, ...
I've never heard of a QB needing 3 SB rings to get into the HOF.........
I think if Eli had just one, the going rate would be he needs a second to prove it.
What did Parcells say? You can win one and be lucky....but if you win two, you've earned it.
He'll be in the HOF. His numbers are WAY up there, plus he has the two rings, two MVPs, and two game winning drives with two incredible throws versus what is the best dynasty ever, including their coach and QB.
Might not be first ballot, and probably shouldn't be. But he'll be in the HOF and it will be extremely deserving.
PS - add in his class act of playing in the toughest sports town, at the toughest position in sports.
Im suggesting Blanda, Griese etc got voted in when great teams had a lot of players go in. The Pats on the other hand of today will have Belichick and Brady go in. Who else? Gronk. Wilfork? Not nearly as many.
Stats are obivioulsy important, but stats relative to your peers is most important. Brees goes in because of his off the wall stats relative to his peers. Im not sure eli's stats look as great when considered relative to his peers.
And Eli is controversial. People still dont like his SD stance.
Personally I do believe he should make it and he will over time but I also think it will take him a decade after his retirement at least and I would not use the word lock. I guess its also matters when Ben R, Brady, others retire. And also if the hall is ready to put 5 or 10 qbs in during a short timeframe.
all-time stats? check.
championship(s)? check.
signature plays? check.
respected by his peers? check.
clean off the field? check.
ambassador of the game? check.
respected by the press? this one's close, but I would venture to say that those who know the game best respect what eli has done and what he brings to the table.
are pretty similar to those debated before. So, I'll just say this: There is zero question in my mind that Eli makes it in, especially given the requisite stats he'll have accumulated and the HOF voters usually splooge over. The ONLY question to me, is WHEN he gets in after the 5 years have elapsed post-retirement..
certainly it does. You are aware the media is not that objective right? A lot of it is a popularity contest. LT was not a unanimous vote into the hall because voters did not like him as a person. Beyond silly but true.
Stats are relative. titles and MVP's on the biggest stage aren't. There's not much argumentation writers can use to keep him out, and frankly, they don't want that scrutiny.
You put him up against his peers NOW, and he's right there in stats and success. Do it 2 years from now, and he's even further ahead.
I think if Eli were to have played his last down, he's in the HoF. I doubt (nor do I want to) that argument will come into play, but like I said above - you aren't going to leave a guy who will likely be in the Top 5 of all key stats with 2 titles out of the Hall. It isn't going to happen.
There's not a single instance of a guy who retired in the top 5 of most major categories not being in the Hall on the offensive side of the ball. The most glaring example is OJ Anderson, and that's 35 years ago now.
a good chance we will also never see a case where more qbs replace existing qbs in top 5 categories as we will in the next 10 years. Lucks, Wilsons, Winstons, Mariottas of the world will be air raiding defenses.
Where Eli sits once he is eligible for hall consideration vs his retirement will be interesting on all those lists.
He's not any kind of lock. He may get in he may not.
QB stats look very different in 21st century. By this argument Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan should he get to another super bowl, and others will be locks as well.
Brees Brady Rodgers and Ben R will get in before Manning as his contemporaries go. His brother as well. Rivers is a peer to Eli without wins in playoff so he probably waits longer but statistically a peer. Romo as well same as Rivers.
A lot of qbs already there in discussion.
Again, Eli has the stats and the super bowls. And Ryan and Wilson also have to compile the stats for another 7 years or so.
Wilson is close too. Ryan has a lot of work to do. He had a shot last february but decided to choke in the 4th quarter. Wilson...somewhat similar but he has one under his belt.
Stats are one thing. Two Supe MVPs along with the stats and he's still going? That's quite another.
He's not any kind of lock. He may get in he may not.
QB stats look very different in 21st century. By this argument Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan should he get to another super bowl, and others will be locks as well.
Brees Brady Rodgers and Ben R will get in before Manning as his contemporaries go. His brother as well. Rivers is a peer to Eli without wins in playoff so he probably waits longer but statistically a peer. Romo as well same as Rivers.
A lot of qbs already there in discussion.
And you cannot put romo and rivers in the same convo as Eli. They didn't win two super bowl titles.
I don't know why this is so hard to comprehend. The super bowl MVPs carry a shit load of weight.
Eli is NFL royalty. He's one of the ambassadors of the game. Some of the biggest moments in NFL history are plastered with Eli Manning's play. He's got longevity and stats for days. With every TD and big play made he cements his place in Canton more and more.
He's not even done playing yet. Let the ink dry on his career before we even debate this but as of this moment it would be next to impossible to keep Eli out of Canton.
Don't expect first ballot but Eli will make the HOF. IF he has another insane postseason run he will be first ballot. If he compiles a lot more he will be first ballot. In other words, Eli Manning has got a lot of outs.
I do expect first ballot, or the whole hof is a sham.
That's a weird take. Eli as of this moment doesn't have to be a first ballot guy to validate the HOF standard. He probably shouldn't be a first ballot guy. He's never been a perfect QB and first time guys should be perfect. Think Joe Montana or Brady or Peyton or Jim Brown or LT. Those guys were as close to perfect as one could hope. Eli is not that guy.
He will get in. Don't get depressed when he's skipped over for a few years. The only way he gets in first time is if he has a shitty class of peers or he wins another title. Not out of the question, but let's see it happen first.
and he SHOULD be a lock, but let's face it, there's a perception of him as nothing more than an average quarterback, and it wouldn't surprise me if enough HOF voters believed it, too. He needs a strong finish these last three years.
Both of these guys were trailing by one score late in the Super Bowl Â
Isn't he the biggest stat compiler of them all? He has 1 ring and a bunch of stats from a pass heavy offense.
Brees is a great QB but he's overrated. He should get in. But he's overrated because nearly everyone has him higher than Eli despite reality showing something else.
nothing hard to comprehend. I understand that fully. I am making the point, as the article pointed out statistics, that Eli has plenty of statistical peers.
I understand the trump card he has fully with regards to Romo and Rivers.
Without beating a dead horse, and for the 'lock crowd', I posted two articles: one citing him at 40% odds, and another citing him at 72% odds but the model not factoring in for a glut of contemporaries jockeying for attention at the same postion.
Is 72% a 'lock'? To me 95% odds are a lock. Depends on how you define a lock.
Everyone can post their checklist, people can do the same thing on the other side as well. I'd still look at the model ESPN produced and say at 70% he has a good chance.
I dont believe its a lock either way.
RE: Both of these guys were trailing by one score late in the Super Bowl Â
and he SHOULD be a lock, but let's face it, there's a perception of him as nothing more than an average quarterback, and it wouldn't surprise me if enough HOF voters believed it, too. He needs a strong finish these last three years.
The interceptions hurt Eli the most, especially the ones on prime time television.
IMHO, all Eli needs (as I noted above but I'll repeat myself) is a real strong regular season capped by a SB. This is the best roster we've had since 2008 and pray Eli has a 4800 - 40 - 8 type of year or something like that capped with a ring, MVP or not, and all the haters will be forced to shut their mouths and end the talk. 3 rings. Amen.
RE: In what world do Andrew Luck and Cam Newton.... Â
have that much higher percentage of getting in than Eli Manning right now?
That's statistical analysis run amok. What has Andrew Luck done at this point to even say his name and hall of fame in the same sentence?
Cam Newton and Andrew Luck projections are all about POTENTIAL. Eli's done it. It's not if he does it, he's done it.
Cam and Andrew will have the stats. But people act like 1-2 super bowls is easy to come by. They aren't. One super bowl title is 1-31 chance of happening--that's nearly impossible. Two is a pipe dream.
Fans assume postseason greatness is some sort of right of passage for the younger, great QBs. It's anything but.
He is not a lock because the honor is voted on, so how can this man be a lock when he is the most disrespected QB I have ever seen. The NFL network hates the Giants, we know already that ESPN hates the Giants, and these are the big influences on people, most voters have no fucking clue, this is a popularity contest that we already know Eli loses on, so where is the lock?
In my opinion he is a Hall of Fame talent, no questions asked, that means nothing. His performances obviously mean nothing, Rivers gets more respect then does Eli, in peoples minds Prescott is already better then Eli, those are FACTS, they are horrible facts, but facts non the less. That is why there is only one way to beat them, win another Super Bowl, then who gives a shit if he doers get in, it will be the biggest embarrassment for the voters credibility, plus it will kill people if Eli actually ends up with more titles then the beloved rapist.
Another factor is that the NFL is a declining sport with guys blowing their brains out and the millenial generation antics. Eli represents the sport well and it's a chance to make HOF weekend about Peyton so football needs him in the HOF when it comes down to it for the image of the sport.
Many HOF QBs were INT machines. Of course Favre with 6 seasons over 20 INTs, but Fouts with 5 and Marino with 4. Moon has as many as Eli at 3. All but Marino have a higher % as well.
He's had one monster year with a top of the league defense. He played out of his mind I'll give it to him. But last year he was a disaster and the year before the Super Bowl appearance I remember him constantly shooting the ball 5 yards over wide open players heads constantly.
Many HOF QBs were INT machines. Of course Favre with 6 seasons over 20 INTs, but Fouts with 5 and Marino with 4. Moon has as many as Eli at 3. All but Marino have a higher % as well.
Favre, Moon, Marino, Fouts - I got to watch them all play and all were risk takers, especially Favre.
I'll say it one last time, if Eli has that "year" where he just nails 4800+ - 40+ - 10 or less int, plus gets the Giants to the SB, he becomes a 1st ballot lock in my mind. A probowl, maybe those are even All-Pro numbers, and it will be hard to argue. The main reason I like him for a lot of TD's this year is turnovers. I think our defense will get him a good number as well as provide good field position.
Marshall, Engram, Ellison, J. Adams all improve the greenzone offense. FG attempts become TD's.
In an objective world, 2 SBs, 2 SB MVPs, being the only team to beat the Patriots... twice. That should be enough.
IMO being Peyton's brother only enhances his chances. Being the only brothers to be in the HOF is something that the Hall would probably be very interested in promoting.
And I think with the Chargers leaving San Diego, any lingering bitterness about the 2004 draft drama should be eased.
That being said... the HOF Selection Committee consists of 1 representative each from the 32 teams and 16 at large media members. A candidate must obtain 80% of the vote to be enshrined... so 39 votes minimum.
I think it will be hard for Eli to get a lot of the at large votes because most of those writers at one point or another mocked his pre-draft behavior or his play.
So I think that alone will kill his chances of getting in anytime soon.
While he does not have a body of work like Eli and is at risk of being ineffective going forward. But MVP means a lot and it is why he will be mentioned by the likes of espn. Personally he won't even make another pro bowl is my guess-the hits have hurt and his game is not to stay in the pocket.
If a bunch of computers were crunching stats and then choosing Â
It's not computers. Eli has a lot of detractors who think he is soft, unathletic, prone to tossing the ball up for grabs when under pressure.
They don't think that he deserved being a two time SB MVP. They would like to say publicly what they already say privately: that the Tyree pass and catch was one of the biggest flukes in the history of the sport.
Funny that when they talk about the Immaculate Reception, they don't call that a lucky fluke.
How is he a lock, when we're not in agreement about Eli? The volume stats should not be heavily weighted in this day and age. If so, Rivers is HoF material, when in reality, he is not. It's a slippery slope because it paves the way for fantasy football Superstars that are undeserving.
How is he a lock, when we're not in agreement about Eli? The volume stats should not be heavily weighted in this day and age. If so, Rivers is HoF material, when in reality, he is not. It's a slippery slope because it paves the way for fantasy football Superstars that are undeserving.
Fantasy Football has definitely made things worse for Eli cause he isn't the "stat" guy that many others are, including Rivers in some years.
I still believe that all Eli needs is a big year this year for FF points; for NFC EAST champion points; for playoff points; and, for national TV points as we'll be on quite a bit; and finally another SB ring and he is a HoF lock even if he isn't SB MVP.
One thing about Eli that gets wildly overlooked, Â
even here on BBI, is how much impact he had on the 2nd SB run. He had the lowest ranked defense AND the lowest ranked running game in the NFL, and single-handedly kept his team in the hunt. Has another QB won a SB with the lowest ranked D and running games?
Add in 2 SB MVP's, and Fats makes a great point about how both of those being v. TOm Brady will play voters, and I think think Eli is knocking on the door. I'm not going to say he's a lock, there is this absurd anti-Eli bias among the media, but barring a complete meltdown, he's in.
even here on BBI, is how much impact he had on the 2nd SB run. He had the lowest ranked defense AND the lowest ranked running game in the NFL, and single-handedly kept his team in the hunt. Has another QB won a SB with the lowest ranked D and running games?
Add in 2 SB MVP's, and Fats makes a great point about how both of those being v. TOm Brady will play voters, and I think think Eli is knocking on the door. I'm not going to say he's a lock, there is this absurd anti-Eli bias among the media, but barring a complete meltdown, he's in.
Another thing often not discussed about that year, were the two records he broke/tied.
7 4th quarter comebacks that season (tied for most ever)
14 4th quarter TD passes (broke longstanding record held by Unitas/Peyton)
Including 18-0, which historically has the significance of the Jets over the Colts in Superbowl III. Not to mention arguably the greatest play in NFL history.
and frankly the ONLY thing many of these guys today that are considered locks are compiler stats. That's all they have. They don't win in the playoffs, they don't have rings, and they don't have any records or signature plays of significance other than large yard and TD totals. That's all they've got.
How is he a lock, when we're not in agreement about Eli? The volume stats should not be heavily weighted in this day and age. If so, Rivers is HoF material, when in reality, he is not. It's a slippery slope because it paves the way for fantasy football Superstars that are undeserving.
This is one of my big peeves on BBI, posters who claim Ben is a lock but Eli isn't. I think their cases are remarkably similar, Ben has a slight statistical advantage due to fewer TO's, Eli has the better performances in the big games (sorry, but Ben's first SB win was one of the worst QB performances in SB history). Ben was really good in the win over AZ, but also lost a playoff game to Tim fucking Tebow.
Personally, I don't think either is a lock, but both are really, really close.
Brees Brady Rodgers and Big Ben and p Manning the locks are all super bowl winners and stat compilers. No one else is a lock and no one is making it just for stat compilation.
Ben R plays for a beloved franchise and has had a stat surge in his late years that helps his cause. And has made the bowl three times which helps.
If Eli played for gb or Pitt his odds would go up significantly.
get dinged for stats when he's in the top 10 of several key QB categories?
The logic used to poke holes in his candidacy is really poor.
Troy Aikman was never a stats star, but he won titles. Eli has the stats and the titles.
TRhen you have the Ben R vs. Eli comps where if you say Ben R is a lock and say Eli isn't, it is laughable by almost every metric. They have an almost identical stat line, right down to the number of titles.
Simply put, Cam Newton quit in the Super Bowl. In 30 years of watching sports I can't recall an athlete having a worse moment in a bigger situation. He could throw for 200,000 yards and 1,000 TDs...when he retires the first sentence in the summary of his career should be, "He quit in the Super Bowl."
You guys think I'm tough on Beckham; if Newton were our QB I'd post that GIF every day.
The most interesting thing on this thread is the notion that Eli and Romo are peers. They both played in the NFL. They both played in the NFC East. Not too sure what else they share in terms of accomplishments on the football field. I think Romo is by far the most overrated QB in the NFL during the four decades I've been watching. As long as we aren't counting big games, you can go ahead and put Rivers and Eli in the same group but not Romo. Gadzooks!
being in the Hall paves the way for a lot of guys who have titles. You can't make many arguments for Warner that aren't covered when talking about Eli or Ben.
and that's the rub - for every QB with questionable credentials - Eli passes him on a couple or several levels.
Moon - no NFL titles, but longevity and the CFL career - Eli - 2 SB MVP's and in the top 10 for stats
Namath - Made a bold prediction and won a SB vs. the NFL stalwart Colts. Star of NYC - Eli has 2 SB MVP's vs. the NFL stalwart Pats's. Star of NYC
Warner - went from grocery store guy to NFL MVP and SB winner. Short career - Eli has the longevity and two titles
There's really not going to be a compelling argument to keep him out and when HoF voters look up and see a guy in the top 5 of almost every QB stat, with what might end up being the longest consecutive game streak ever - he's a lock.
both Bruce and Holt will be in the HoF at some point.
And again - if you overvalue stats with Eli, you then have the two titles and MVP's.
What I'm saying is that by some criteria, Eli has it covered, whether it be statistical - titles - consecutive game streak (toughness) - high-profile team.
Making it seem like the steelers are a vaunted franchise and the Giants aren't is also disingenuous.
If voters point to weaknesses in Eli, you can literally point to several players already in the Hall that eli is better than on any of his "weaknesses". Voters will put him in, and 5 years after he's done playing, the legacy of beating Brady will remain strong - especially if no other QB beats him - Thank You Matt ryan!!
There is only one QB that won two Super Bowls who isn't in Canton Â
And it's Jim Plunkett, who was awful early in his career in New England and San Francisco before landing in Oakland as Stabler's backup. Every other multiple SB-winning QB is in the Hall.
Have more cachet than ny Giants isn't suggesting the NY Giants are chopped liver. You yourself have researched ref bias against nyg. There are lots of writers who are anti ny. So 'disingenuous'??
We have beaten this to death. I would suggest Eli is a polarizing figure and may be the outlier.
I won't bother getting into the stat discussion again but Ben R has a career rating 11 points higher than Eli with three super bowl appearances.
He is a similar player historically with less mistakes and a better logo in the court of public opinion. That is hardly laughable.
And he also won SB's with the 4th rated defense and 5th rated rushing attack, and then the highest rated for both. Context matters. Again, Eli's 2nd SB is all on him. I can't think of any SB winning QB who did more with less.
Saying the Steelers
hassan : 11:17 am : link : reply
Have more cachet than ny Giants isn't suggesting the NY Giants are chopped liver. You yourself have researched ref bias against nyg
The research also showed a bias against Pitt too. What the research showed was the teams who supported replacement refs way back in the day found themselves consistently on the short end of calls. Mara and Rooney were both supporters.
The images of the Steelers and the Giants are quite similar, down to a professional friendship. Basically saying that the steelers logo holds more sway is splitting hairs, since both are flagship franchises of the NFL. It would be like comparing the status of the Bears vs. the Lions.
Just not a lock for 1st ballot. The problem with the HOF is there is no consistency on why one person gets in and another doesn't. Eli has some good strong case for and a good case against.
The Good - 2 SB MVPs, consecutive games streak, longevity, 1 really great season, a few very strong seasons, lots of TDs, holds several NFL records
The Bad - average W/L record, low completion %, only 4 pro bowls in 13 seasons, led the league in INTs several times, high INT totals, inconsistent, Never an All-Pro, Never a league MVP
I like Eli, I think he is a very good QB but to my eye he was never one of the best that I've seen. I personally think the HOF should be reserved for the best of the best. Eli has provided some great moments but not a great consistent career. A HOFer should have can have bad games but shouldnt have bad seasons or st least not until the end. Stats are good and all but I think you need at least 10 seasons in the NFL or at least 5 pro bowls or 1 league MVP to be considered. It's OK to not have someone voted in every year.
Just look at the difference between 2 QBs who played a lot in the same era Eli Manning and Peyton Manning. Eli's stats are not even close to Peyton. That's the type of people he should be compared to, the best of the best. I would put Eli in the 2nd tier of QBs in his Era with guys like Romo. Very good just not great but you see a lot of very good in the HOF too and Eli will get there but may not be 1st ballot, depends on who else is there when election time comes.
Just look at the difference between 2 QBs who played a lot in the same era Eli Manning and Peyton Manning. Eli's stats are not even close to Peyton.
If you are going to do side-by-sides will you normalize for things like playing in a dome? If Eli plays another 4 years, he will compare very favorably with Peyton, and even if he doesn't play again, he'd have 2 SB MVP's, beating the best team in football both times.
What I keep saying is that where Eli has a weakness, it is made up with a strength that bolsters the HoF argument. Eli is 2-0 in SB's, being the MVP twice. His brother has a horrendous loss in a SB and another loss. Eli has had to play in the NFC East his entire career. Peyton could sleepwalk through the regular season most years and get to the postseason.
I just don't have the same faith in the voters that some of you do.
I think of the active guys right now, Brees, Big Ben, Brady, Rodgers definitely get in. Eli is a likely to me. I'm ignoring some of the younger guys like Luck for now.
I also think Ryan gets in if he wins a Super Bowl.
but I thin Eli will be the exception to the dumb anti NY bias rule. Eli has a lot of cache with the media. He's always been open and media friendly and just his name alone, the guy's an NFL pillar.
Anyone else (NYG bubble HOF) and i'd be leery but I think Eli will beat the odds.
If he didn't have the rings, he wouldn't get in. If he didn't have the longevity, he wouldn't get in either. Only once (IMO, and the media disagrees) was he a top 3 QB during the season.
I don't think the comparisons to the other multiple SB winning QB's is appropriate - outside of Ben, the others had far superior regular season accolades. I think I'd put Eli in before Ben, but I doubt the average voter agrees.
Eli is a lock
Rudy5757 : 12:14 pm : link : reply
Just look at the difference between 2 QBs who played a lot in the same era Eli Manning and Peyton Manning. Eli's stats are not even close to Peyton. That's the type of people he should be compared to, the best of the best.
Then every ball player should be compared to Babe Ruth......if they did that, the Hall would be empty....
It's not just about his stats....what about his team's stats? What did he have for a defense? What did he have for a running game? What did he have for receivers? He hasn't had a decent OL, the last 5 seasons, and yet he still put up respectable stats....the last 5 seasons, he has had an injured Nicks, an injured Cruz, and no TE's. Outside of OBj, and a rookie slot receiver, who did he have to throw to last season? Besides Bradshaw in 2012, who has Eli had for a RB these past 5 seasons? It's hard to carry the offense when you have no OL and no weapons....
Read any Harris poll-Pitt is a more popular te than nyg consistently
Even if this is true, it has no bearing on any HOF vote. Any voter who thinks, "If he played for Pitt, I'd vote for him, but..." shouldn't have his/her vote pulled, he/she should be fired. The organization a player plays for his no bearing on whether he's a HOF'er or not.
Read any Harris poll-Pitt is a more popular te than nyg consistently
Even if this is true, it has no bearing on any HOF vote. Any voter who thinks, "If he played for Pitt, I'd vote for him, but..." shouldn't have his/her vote pulled, he/she should be fired. The organization a player plays for his no bearing on whether he's a HOF'er or not.
agree with this, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were voters from other parts of the country that felt Eli was the benefit of the NY media hype machine.
The NY media hypes up Eli Manning to be more than he is? Â
Section the voters are dumb and have an anti ny bias overall. Hence my bringing this up. Should it matter? Of course not. Will it be a real obstacle? Yes, I believe so.
The NY media definitely does NOT hype up Eli Manning Â
Yes, they give him props for two SB's BUT they give him more digs for interceptions in key spots and times than anything else. NY is a tough town and they are tough on Eli.
Think about it: if Eli had 2 less interceptions in big spots per season (just 2 passes) we likely wouldn't be debating whether he deserves HOF first ballot or not. That is how close it is in my humble opinion. A key bad toss on prime time here and there each season has left Eli's rep a bit tarnished.
But one last time: have a big year this year, statistically and in the playoffs, and Eli is a first ballot lock with another ring, MVP or not.
Look...if he simply just stopped throwing pick-6s versus Eagles Â
This article makes the argument Eli is unlikely to get in because of his lack of credentials. I think it's a bit harsh. Football Perspective - ( New Window )
he's been hated on / ridiculously underrated throughout his career ... they will knock his all time stats as being part of an easier era to throw ...
He is nowhere near a lock. (This has nothing to do with how I feel about him. Talk to pretty much any non Giant fan and Eli is not so highly regarded. I've loved Eli ever since that brutal NFC championship against San Fran ... surviving that game alone should get him into the HOF)
Eli's biggest issue as a pro is that he sometimes tries to force the ball when he should throw it away. That is the one area of his game that has hurt him and brought ridicule to his resume.
He's not even done playing yet. Let the ink dry on his career before we even debate this but as of this moment it would be next to impossible to keep Eli out of Canton.
Don't expect first ballot but Eli will make the HOF. IF he has another insane postseason run he will be first ballot. If he compiles a lot more he will be first ballot. In other words, Eli Manning has got a lot of outs.
QB stats look very different in 21st century. By this argument Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan should he get to another super bowl, and others will be locks as well.
Brees Brady Rodgers and Ben R will get in before Manning as his contemporaries go. His brother as well. Rivers is a peer to Eli without wins in playoff so he probably waits longer but statistically a peer. Romo as well same as Rivers.
A lot of qbs already there in discussion.
When your OT jumps, or holds while waiting for your one WR to get open and your great play on 3 and 5 becomes longer and you throw a pick you wonder why its forced in ....
I do think Eli tosses more than his share of INT's.
But there have many times he had little choice.
He will not be a first ballot HOF player in part because his brother will be, and second his own fans do not fully appreciate his efforts being the greatest QB in the history of Giants football.
Being a simms guy growing up, at least he had great defenses around him. Big Ben with Pittsburgh always seems o have top 5 defenses with skill players.
This season will tell us a lot with a tough schedule on the docket and "on paper" a better squad? Will see.
QB stats look very different in 21st century. By this argument Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan should he get to another super bowl, and others will be locks as well.
Brees Brady Rodgers and Ben R will get in before Manning as his contemporaries go. His brother as well. Rivers is a peer to Eli without wins in playoff so he probably waits longer but statistically a peer. Romo as well same as Rivers.
A lot of qbs already there in discussion.
But I get the arguments for why he wouldn't be first ballot as he does have some serious contemporary competition as noted.
and he will get it this year. fades to Marshall, slants to Beckham, outs to Shepard, deep middle to Engram, ...
He's not even done playing yet. Let the ink dry on his career before we even debate this but as of this moment it would be next to impossible to keep Eli out of Canton.
Don't expect first ballot but Eli will make the HOF. IF he has another insane postseason run he will be first ballot. If he compiles a lot more he will be first ballot. In other words, Eli Manning has got a lot of outs.
I do expect first ballot, or the whole hof is a sham.
He is not a lock today. A lot of writers list him on overrated lists and can't get past his campaigns like 2013. Fair or not these are the voters.
And the article citing the volume stats are ridiculous. Elis best case for hof I is his awesome road warrior record in the playoffs and his sb runs. I believe he needs to add to those or go out with a few more top notch ratings.
The passing records will be wiped clean with new players in next 15 years. Those lists will change very soon.
hassan : 12:08 pm : link : reply
He's not any kind of lock. He may get in he may not.
Guys like Namath and Bradshaw are in the Hall. Eli will be too, if only for the 2 SB wins and stat compilation. Even if he were to retire now, he'd be the #1 QB in several stats left out of the Hall.
He checks all the boxes and will be enshrined.
I was thinking he shouldn't be a first ballet lock, but just because of the teams he beat to win those Super Bowls. He should be a first ballet HOF!
They will have to include more as it was the era of qbs-Ben r gets in so does Rodgers.
The careers of Ryan and Wilson will loom large by the time Eli voting starts-Ryan has a chance to get playoff success. Wilson qb rating will be much higher than Eli most likely if he gets to another sb he could lock Eli out as well.
Anyone who says it's clear cut either way is not looking at the fuller picture.
I think he has a great chance. Some great numbers ... playing on the largest stage with the most scrutiny ... handling it beautifully ... and his durability as an NFL quarterback. Then we get to his two rings and two SB MVPs.
Even if he doesn't win another title - which please sweet baby Jesus, all 6 pounds 7 ounces of you make that happen at LEAST once - I still think his chances are very good.
A 3rd SB win or a league MVP (very unlikely) or 4 - 5 more years of play at his current level to pad his stats will be required for Eli to be a lock.
Even inflated passing statistics aren't enough for voters to keep a guy with hardware and stats out.
The big picture simply rewards stat compilers and guys who are in the top 10 ALLTIME in categories. The last thing voters want to look is foolish or have to answer questions year in and out on how they could exclude a player in the top 7 of multiple categories out of the Hall.
However, he faces huge competition moreso than those QBs you mentioned.
If the hall is of the mind to push 8-10 qbs (and the hall certainly has its weirdness which could effect this),in from a 15-25 year span than I think he gets in today without another snap. If its a smaller set then I think he is a case where his enshrinment get delayed like a Harry Carson or a Stabler or even outright passed over, or he needs another good run to push other qb contemporaries out.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/BarnwellNFLPreview160803/projecting-future-nfl-hall-famers-eli-manning-new-york-giants-cam-newton-carolina-panthers-make-pro-football-hall-fame
But when guys like George Blanda are in the Hall for stat compilation, or Bob Griese for being part of the Dolphins SB's, Eli's getting in. Maybe not first ballot, but he's a lock to get in. They are more nostalgic now, but guys like Bart Starr and Roger Staubach were as much a product of their team's success and reputation than carrying teams, and they are both rightfully in the HoF.
Kurt Warner is in the HoF.
If eli were to be left out, you'd have arguments from both a statistical point and a team success point where he is head and shoulders above other people already enshrined. Heck, if he plays 2 more years, he'll retire in the top 5 or higher in most statistical categories.
When OJ Anderson was left out of the Hall retiring as the 9th leading rusher of all-time, the voters used the logic that he didn't have enough sustained longevity. They won't be able to use that argument for Eli.
Also, don't underestimate how his consecutive games streak is viewed.
QB stats look very different in 21st century. By this argument Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan should he get to another super bowl, and others will be locks as well.
Brees Brady Rodgers and Ben R will get in before Manning as his contemporaries go. His brother as well. Rivers is a peer to Eli without wins in playoff so he probably waits longer but statistically a peer. Romo as well same as Rivers.
A lot of qbs already there in discussion.
I very much disagree. If he doesn't play another down he gets in, the question is just when. He can still dictate how fast he gets in but 2 rings + 2 SB MVPS in addition to his iron man streak isn't something that will be glossed over (which you'd have to do to keep him out).
And btw, those older examples are really not good. Stats were such a different animal in football back then and guys on great teams made it in way more often than will be the case going forward (see Blanda, Swann, Griese, etc).
In our fantasy obsessed era, Eli will need to not drop significantly on those lists by the time balloting happens for him (a class of guys waiting to add number to pass by him) and would be helped with another deep playoff run significantly.
That's one of the reasons Eli is a lock. He isn't just a stats guy, he also has the rings and an impressive consecutive games streak.
What I'm saying is he has all the bases covered. He checks all the boxes.
STATS - check
RINGS - check
TOUGHNESS/LONGEVITY - check
NON-CONTROVERSIAL - check
He's not done anything to piss off the voting body and heck, he'll get a lot of votes, not just because of the SB MVP's, but because he beat Brady in both. There's no way Brady's foil gets left out.
Says he has a 70ish pct chance, but acknolwedges the glut of contemporaries ahead of Eli which the model does not factor for. Says if he wins another super bowl its 97% likely. That to me is a lock.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. For me he checks the hardware box, the longevity box, and is already high enough on some of the all time stat categories that the box is somewhat checked now already. I also don't believe their is going to be an agenda of limiting X players at a given position. IN reality there's really only 5 guys ahead of him in this era (Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, I guess Roethlisberger) and that hardly seems like enough players to implement a cutoff. Factor in Newton and anyone else playing for the next 10 years and they won't even be a factor for the current crop.
and he will get it this year. fades to Marshall, slants to Beckham, outs to Shepard, deep middle to Engram, ...
I've never heard of a QB needing 3 SB rings to get into the HOF.........
I think if Eli had just one, the going rate would be he needs a second to prove it.
What did Parcells say? You can win one and be lucky....but if you win two, you've earned it.
He'll be in the HOF. His numbers are WAY up there, plus he has the two rings, two MVPs, and two game winning drives with two incredible throws versus what is the best dynasty ever, including their coach and QB.
Might not be first ballot, and probably shouldn't be. But he'll be in the HOF and it will be extremely deserving.
PS - add in his class act of playing in the toughest sports town, at the toughest position in sports.
That's statistical analysis run amok. What has Andrew Luck done at this point to even say his name and hall of fame in the same sentence?
Cam Newton and Andrew Luck projections are all about POTENTIAL. Eli's done it. It's not if he does it, he's done it.
Stats are obivioulsy important, but stats relative to your peers is most important. Brees goes in because of his off the wall stats relative to his peers. Im not sure eli's stats look as great when considered relative to his peers.
And Eli is controversial. People still dont like his SD stance.
Personally I do believe he should make it and he will over time but I also think it will take him a decade after his retirement at least and I would not use the word lock. I guess its also matters when Ben R, Brady, others retire. And also if the hall is ready to put 5 or 10 qbs in during a short timeframe.
championship(s)? check.
signature plays? check.
respected by his peers? check.
clean off the field? check.
ambassador of the game? check.
respected by the press? this one's close, but I would venture to say that those who know the game best respect what eli has done and what he brings to the table.
he's in even if he retired today.
You've got to be kidding, right?
That has nothing to do with getting into the HOF.
Stats are relative. titles and MVP's on the biggest stage aren't. There's not much argumentation writers can use to keep him out, and frankly, they don't want that scrutiny.
You put him up against his peers NOW, and he's right there in stats and success. Do it 2 years from now, and he's even further ahead.
I think if Eli were to have played his last down, he's in the HoF. I doubt (nor do I want to) that argument will come into play, but like I said above - you aren't going to leave a guy who will likely be in the Top 5 of all key stats with 2 titles out of the Hall. It isn't going to happen.
There's not a single instance of a guy who retired in the top 5 of most major categories not being in the Hall on the offensive side of the ball. The most glaring example is OJ Anderson, and that's 35 years ago now.
Without his SBs he has zero chance at the hall.
It won't ever get to the point where Archie and Peyton need to lobby for him.
Where Eli sits once he is eligible for hall consideration vs his retirement will be interesting on all those lists.
QB stats look very different in 21st century. By this argument Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan should he get to another super bowl, and others will be locks as well.
Brees Brady Rodgers and Ben R will get in before Manning as his contemporaries go. His brother as well. Rivers is a peer to Eli without wins in playoff so he probably waits longer but statistically a peer. Romo as well same as Rivers.
A lot of qbs already there in discussion.
Again, Eli has the stats and the super bowls. And Ryan and Wilson also have to compile the stats for another 7 years or so.
Wilson is close too. Ryan has a lot of work to do. He had a shot last february but decided to choke in the 4th quarter. Wilson...somewhat similar but he has one under his belt.
Stats are one thing. Two Supe MVPs along with the stats and he's still going? That's quite another.
QB stats look very different in 21st century. By this argument Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan should he get to another super bowl, and others will be locks as well.
Brees Brady Rodgers and Ben R will get in before Manning as his contemporaries go. His brother as well. Rivers is a peer to Eli without wins in playoff so he probably waits longer but statistically a peer. Romo as well same as Rivers.
A lot of qbs already there in discussion.
And you cannot put romo and rivers in the same convo as Eli. They didn't win two super bowl titles.
I don't know why this is so hard to comprehend. The super bowl MVPs carry a shit load of weight.
Quote:
Eli is NFL royalty. He's one of the ambassadors of the game. Some of the biggest moments in NFL history are plastered with Eli Manning's play. He's got longevity and stats for days. With every TD and big play made he cements his place in Canton more and more.
He's not even done playing yet. Let the ink dry on his career before we even debate this but as of this moment it would be next to impossible to keep Eli out of Canton.
Don't expect first ballot but Eli will make the HOF. IF he has another insane postseason run he will be first ballot. If he compiles a lot more he will be first ballot. In other words, Eli Manning has got a lot of outs.
I do expect first ballot, or the whole hof is a sham.
That's a weird take. Eli as of this moment doesn't have to be a first ballot guy to validate the HOF standard. He probably shouldn't be a first ballot guy. He's never been a perfect QB and first time guys should be perfect. Think Joe Montana or Brady or Peyton or Jim Brown or LT. Those guys were as close to perfect as one could hope. Eli is not that guy.
He will get in. Don't get depressed when he's skipped over for a few years. The only way he gets in first time is if he has a shitty class of peers or he wins another title. Not out of the question, but let's see it happen first.
Cam Newton isn't a stain in Eli Manning's underwear, and any Hall of Fame that would have the former but not the latter would be a joke.
But it would be great if he could lock in one more elite level season and/or SB win to end all debate
Brees is a great QB but he's overrated. He should get in. But he's overrated because nearly everyone has him higher than Eli despite reality showing something else.
I understand the trump card he has fully with regards to Romo and Rivers.
Without beating a dead horse, and for the 'lock crowd', I posted two articles: one citing him at 40% odds, and another citing him at 72% odds but the model not factoring in for a glut of contemporaries jockeying for attention at the same postion.
Is 72% a 'lock'? To me 95% odds are a lock. Depends on how you define a lock.
Everyone can post their checklist, people can do the same thing on the other side as well. I'd still look at the model ESPN produced and say at 70% he has a good chance.
I dont believe its a lock either way.
Cam Newton isn't a stain in Eli Manning's underwear, and any Hall of Fame that would have the former but not the latter would be a joke.
Haha!
IMHO, all Eli needs (as I noted above but I'll repeat myself) is a real strong regular season capped by a SB. This is the best roster we've had since 2008 and pray Eli has a 4800 - 40 - 8 type of year or something like that capped with a ring, MVP or not, and all the haters will be forced to shut their mouths and end the talk. 3 rings. Amen.
That's statistical analysis run amok. What has Andrew Luck done at this point to even say his name and hall of fame in the same sentence?
Cam Newton and Andrew Luck projections are all about POTENTIAL. Eli's done it. It's not if he does it, he's done it.
Cam and Andrew will have the stats. But people act like 1-2 super bowls is easy to come by. They aren't. One super bowl title is 1-31 chance of happening--that's nearly impossible. Two is a pipe dream.
Fans assume postseason greatness is some sort of right of passage for the younger, great QBs. It's anything but.
In my opinion he is a Hall of Fame talent, no questions asked, that means nothing. His performances obviously mean nothing, Rivers gets more respect then does Eli, in peoples minds Prescott is already better then Eli, those are FACTS, they are horrible facts, but facts non the less. That is why there is only one way to beat them, win another Super Bowl, then who gives a shit if he doers get in, it will be the biggest embarrassment for the voters credibility, plus it will kill people if Eli actually ends up with more titles then the beloved rapist.
Another factor is that the NFL is a declining sport with guys blowing their brains out and the millenial generation antics. Eli represents the sport well and it's a chance to make HOF weekend about Peyton so football needs him in the HOF when it comes down to it for the image of the sport.
I'll say it one last time, if Eli has that "year" where he just nails 4800+ - 40+ - 10 or less int, plus gets the Giants to the SB, he becomes a 1st ballot lock in my mind. A probowl, maybe those are even All-Pro numbers, and it will be hard to argue. The main reason I like him for a lot of TD's this year is turnovers. I think our defense will get him a good number as well as provide good field position.
Marshall, Engram, Ellison, J. Adams all improve the greenzone offense. FG attempts become TD's.
IMO being Peyton's brother only enhances his chances. Being the only brothers to be in the HOF is something that the Hall would probably be very interested in promoting.
And I think with the Chargers leaving San Diego, any lingering bitterness about the 2004 draft drama should be eased.
That being said... the HOF Selection Committee consists of 1 representative each from the 32 teams and 16 at large media members. A candidate must obtain 80% of the vote to be enshrined... so 39 votes minimum.
I think it will be hard for Eli to get a lot of the at large votes because most of those writers at one point or another mocked his pre-draft behavior or his play.
So I think that alone will kill his chances of getting in anytime soon.
i think he makes it in...
It's not computers. Eli has a lot of detractors who think he is soft, unathletic, prone to tossing the ball up for grabs when under pressure.
They don't think that he deserved being a two time SB MVP. They would like to say publicly what they already say privately: that the Tyree pass and catch was one of the biggest flukes in the history of the sport.
Funny that when they talk about the Immaculate Reception, they don't call that a lucky fluke.
I still believe that all Eli needs is a big year this year for FF points; for NFC EAST champion points; for playoff points; and, for national TV points as we'll be on quite a bit; and finally another SB ring and he is a HoF lock even if he isn't SB MVP.
Add in 2 SB MVP's, and Fats makes a great point about how both of those being v. TOm Brady will play voters, and I think think Eli is knocking on the door. I'm not going to say he's a lock, there is this absurd anti-Eli bias among the media, but barring a complete meltdown, he's in.
Add in 2 SB MVP's, and Fats makes a great point about how both of those being v. TOm Brady will play voters, and I think think Eli is knocking on the door. I'm not going to say he's a lock, there is this absurd anti-Eli bias among the media, but barring a complete meltdown, he's in.
Another thing often not discussed about that year, were the two records he broke/tied.
7 4th quarter comebacks that season (tied for most ever)
14 4th quarter TD passes (broke longstanding record held by Unitas/Peyton)
Including 18-0, which historically has the significance of the Jets over the Colts in Superbowl III. Not to mention arguably the greatest play in NFL history.
This is one of my big peeves on BBI, posters who claim Ben is a lock but Eli isn't. I think their cases are remarkably similar, Ben has a slight statistical advantage due to fewer TO's, Eli has the better performances in the big games (sorry, but Ben's first SB win was one of the worst QB performances in SB history). Ben was really good in the win over AZ, but also lost a playoff game to Tim fucking Tebow.
Personally, I don't think either is a lock, but both are really, really close.
Ben R plays for a beloved franchise and has had a stat surge in his late years that helps his cause. And has made the bowl three times which helps.
If Eli played for gb or Pitt his odds would go up significantly.
The logic used to poke holes in his candidacy is really poor.
Troy Aikman was never a stats star, but he won titles. Eli has the stats and the titles.
TRhen you have the Ben R vs. Eli comps where if you say Ben R is a lock and say Eli isn't, it is laughable by almost every metric. They have an almost identical stat line, right down to the number of titles.
You guys think I'm tough on Beckham; if Newton were our QB I'd post that GIF every day.
He is a similar player historically with less mistakes and a better logo in the court of public opinion. That is hardly laughable.
Maybe there is a growing recognition of the fantasy era we are in overstating the value of these players.
and that's the rub - for every QB with questionable credentials - Eli passes him on a couple or several levels.
Moon - no NFL titles, but longevity and the CFL career - Eli - 2 SB MVP's and in the top 10 for stats
Namath - Made a bold prediction and won a SB vs. the NFL stalwart Colts. Star of NYC - Eli has 2 SB MVP's vs. the NFL stalwart Pats's. Star of NYC
Warner - went from grocery store guy to NFL MVP and SB winner. Short career - Eli has the longevity and two titles
There's really not going to be a compelling argument to keep him out and when HoF voters look up and see a guy in the top 5 of almost every QB stat, with what might end up being the longest consecutive game streak ever - he's a lock.
And again - if you overvalue stats with Eli, you then have the two titles and MVP's.
What I'm saying is that by some criteria, Eli has it covered, whether it be statistical - titles - consecutive game streak (toughness) - high-profile team.
Making it seem like the steelers are a vaunted franchise and the Giants aren't is also disingenuous.
If voters point to weaknesses in Eli, you can literally point to several players already in the Hall that eli is better than on any of his "weaknesses". Voters will put him in, and 5 years after he's done playing, the legacy of beating Brady will remain strong - especially if no other QB beats him - Thank You Matt ryan!!
We have beaten this to death. I would suggest Eli is a polarizing figure and may be the outlier.
Why does a Steelers' logo add more luster than a Giants'? I don't buy that at all.
He is a similar player historically with less mistakes and a better logo in the court of public opinion. That is hardly laughable.
And he also won SB's with the 4th rated defense and 5th rated rushing attack, and then the highest rated for both. Context matters. Again, Eli's 2nd SB is all on him. I can't think of any SB winning QB who did more with less.
Another Superbowl ring would help immensely..
Beating Tom Brady again in a SB would make it a lock..
hassan : 11:17 am : link : reply
Have more cachet than ny Giants isn't suggesting the NY Giants are chopped liver. You yourself have researched ref bias against nyg
The research also showed a bias against Pitt too. What the research showed was the teams who supported replacement refs way back in the day found themselves consistently on the short end of calls. Mara and Rooney were both supporters.
The images of the Steelers and the Giants are quite similar, down to a professional friendship. Basically saying that the steelers logo holds more sway is splitting hairs, since both are flagship franchises of the NFL. It would be like comparing the status of the Bears vs. the Lions.
The Good - 2 SB MVPs, consecutive games streak, longevity, 1 really great season, a few very strong seasons, lots of TDs, holds several NFL records
The Bad - average W/L record, low completion %, only 4 pro bowls in 13 seasons, led the league in INTs several times, high INT totals, inconsistent, Never an All-Pro, Never a league MVP
I like Eli, I think he is a very good QB but to my eye he was never one of the best that I've seen. I personally think the HOF should be reserved for the best of the best. Eli has provided some great moments but not a great consistent career. A HOFer should have can have bad games but shouldnt have bad seasons or st least not until the end. Stats are good and all but I think you need at least 10 seasons in the NFL or at least 5 pro bowls or 1 league MVP to be considered. It's OK to not have someone voted in every year.
Just look at the difference between 2 QBs who played a lot in the same era Eli Manning and Peyton Manning. Eli's stats are not even close to Peyton. That's the type of people he should be compared to, the best of the best. I would put Eli in the 2nd tier of QBs in his Era with guys like Romo. Very good just not great but you see a lot of very good in the HOF too and Eli will get there but may not be 1st ballot, depends on who else is there when election time comes.
If you are going to do side-by-sides will you normalize for things like playing in a dome? If Eli plays another 4 years, he will compare very favorably with Peyton, and even if he doesn't play again, he'd have 2 SB MVP's, beating the best team in football both times.
What I keep saying is that where Eli has a weakness, it is made up with a strength that bolsters the HoF argument. Eli is 2-0 in SB's, being the MVP twice. His brother has a horrendous loss in a SB and another loss. Eli has had to play in the NFC East his entire career. Peyton could sleepwalk through the regular season most years and get to the postseason.
But "lock" is a word that means 100%, and it's not 100%.
So no, he is not a lock.
I think of the active guys right now, Brees, Big Ben, Brady, Rodgers definitely get in. Eli is a likely to me. I'm ignoring some of the younger guys like Luck for now.
I also think Ryan gets in if he wins a Super Bowl.
Anyone else (NYG bubble HOF) and i'd be leery but I think Eli will beat the odds.
I don't think the comparisons to the other multiple SB winning QB's is appropriate - outside of Ben, the others had far superior regular season accolades. I think I'd put Eli in before Ben, but I doubt the average voter agrees.
Rudy5757 : 12:14 pm : link : reply
Just look at the difference between 2 QBs who played a lot in the same era Eli Manning and Peyton Manning. Eli's stats are not even close to Peyton. That's the type of people he should be compared to, the best of the best.
Then every ball player should be compared to Babe Ruth......if they did that, the Hall would be empty....
It's not just about his stats....what about his team's stats? What did he have for a defense? What did he have for a running game? What did he have for receivers? He hasn't had a decent OL, the last 5 seasons, and yet he still put up respectable stats....the last 5 seasons, he has had an injured Nicks, an injured Cruz, and no TE's. Outside of OBj, and a rookie slot receiver, who did he have to throw to last season? Besides Bradshaw in 2012, who has Eli had for a RB these past 5 seasons? It's hard to carry the offense when you have no OL and no weapons....
Even if this is true, it has no bearing on any HOF vote. Any voter who thinks, "If he played for Pitt, I'd vote for him, but..." shouldn't have his/her vote pulled, he/she should be fired. The organization a player plays for his no bearing on whether he's a HOF'er or not.
Quote:
Read any Harris poll-Pitt is a more popular te than nyg consistently
Even if this is true, it has no bearing on any HOF vote. Any voter who thinks, "If he played for Pitt, I'd vote for him, but..." shouldn't have his/her vote pulled, he/she should be fired. The organization a player plays for his no bearing on whether he's a HOF'er or not.
agree with this, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were voters from other parts of the country that felt Eli was the benefit of the NY media hype machine.
Think about it: if Eli had 2 less interceptions in big spots per season (just 2 passes) we likely wouldn't be debating whether he deserves HOF first ballot or not. That is how close it is in my humble opinion. A key bad toss on prime time here and there each season has left Eli's rep a bit tarnished.
But one last time: have a big year this year, statistically and in the playoffs, and Eli is a first ballot lock with another ring, MVP or not.
But alas, it likely will continue...
Football Perspective - ( New Window )
He is nowhere near a lock. (This has nothing to do with how I feel about him. Talk to pretty much any non Giant fan and Eli is not so highly regarded. I've loved Eli ever since that brutal NFC championship against San Fran ... surviving that game alone should get him into the HOF)