for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Why Giants QB Eli Manning is a lock for Hall of Fame

Oldschoolgiant : 7/10/2017 11:30 am
Numbers don't lie:
Eli is a lock - ( New Window )
Pages: 1 2 3 <<Prev | Show All |  Next>>
RE: RE: he's going to get in  
djm : 7/10/2017 1:52 pm : link
In comment 13524311 ArcadeSlumlord said:
Quote:
In comment 13524280 djm said:


Quote:


Eli is NFL royalty. He's one of the ambassadors of the game. Some of the biggest moments in NFL history are plastered with Eli Manning's play. He's got longevity and stats for days. With every TD and big play made he cements his place in Canton more and more.

He's not even done playing yet. Let the ink dry on his career before we even debate this but as of this moment it would be next to impossible to keep Eli out of Canton.

Don't expect first ballot but Eli will make the HOF. IF he has another insane postseason run he will be first ballot. If he compiles a lot more he will be first ballot. In other words, Eli Manning has got a lot of outs.



I do expect first ballot, or the whole hof is a sham.


That's a weird take. Eli as of this moment doesn't have to be a first ballot guy to validate the HOF standard. He probably shouldn't be a first ballot guy. He's never been a perfect QB and first time guys should be perfect. Think Joe Montana or Brady or Peyton or Jim Brown or LT. Those guys were as close to perfect as one could hope. Eli is not that guy.

He will get in. Don't get depressed when he's skipped over for a few years. The only way he gets in first time is if he has a shitty class of peers or he wins another title. Not out of the question, but let's see it happen first.
I think he'll get in  
bceagle05 : 7/10/2017 1:53 pm : link
and he SHOULD be a lock, but let's face it, there's a perception of him as nothing more than an average quarterback, and it wouldn't surprise me if enough HOF voters believed it, too. He needs a strong finish these last three years.
Both of these guys were trailing by one score late in the Super Bowl  
Go Terps : 7/10/2017 1:54 pm : link




Cam Newton isn't a stain in Eli Manning's underwear, and any Hall of Fame that would have the former but not the latter would be a joke.
I think a lot of the stupid criticism of Eli will fade  
mfsd : 7/10/2017 1:55 pm : link
in the few years after he retires, and people will look back with greater appreciation at his longevity, toughness, and performances.

But it would be great if he could lock in one more elite level season and/or SB win to end all debate
RE: Brees will get in, but  
djm : 7/10/2017 1:55 pm : link
In comment 13524354 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
Isn't he the biggest stat compiler of them all? He has 1 ring and a bunch of stats from a pass heavy offense.


Brees is a great QB but he's overrated. He should get in. But he's overrated because nearly everyone has him higher than Eli despite reality showing something else.
djm  
hassan : 7/10/2017 1:55 pm : link
nothing hard to comprehend. I understand that fully. I am making the point, as the article pointed out statistics, that Eli has plenty of statistical peers.

I understand the trump card he has fully with regards to Romo and Rivers.

Without beating a dead horse, and for the 'lock crowd', I posted two articles: one citing him at 40% odds, and another citing him at 72% odds but the model not factoring in for a glut of contemporaries jockeying for attention at the same postion.

Is 72% a 'lock'? To me 95% odds are a lock. Depends on how you define a lock.

Everyone can post their checklist, people can do the same thing on the other side as well. I'd still look at the model ESPN produced and say at 70% he has a good chance.

I dont believe its a lock either way.
RE: Both of these guys were trailing by one score late in the Super Bowl  
UConn4523 : 7/10/2017 1:56 pm : link
In comment 13524448 Go Terps said:
Quote:




Cam Newton isn't a stain in Eli Manning's underwear, and any Hall of Fame that would have the former but not the latter would be a joke.


Haha!
RE: I think he'll get in  
SGMen : 7/10/2017 1:56 pm : link
In comment 13524445 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
and he SHOULD be a lock, but let's face it, there's a perception of him as nothing more than an average quarterback, and it wouldn't surprise me if enough HOF voters believed it, too. He needs a strong finish these last three years.
The interceptions hurt Eli the most, especially the ones on prime time television.

IMHO, all Eli needs (as I noted above but I'll repeat myself) is a real strong regular season capped by a SB. This is the best roster we've had since 2008 and pray Eli has a 4800 - 40 - 8 type of year or something like that capped with a ring, MVP or not, and all the haters will be forced to shut their mouths and end the talk. 3 rings. Amen.
RE: In what world do Andrew Luck and Cam Newton....  
djm : 7/10/2017 1:57 pm : link
In comment 13524390 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
have that much higher percentage of getting in than Eli Manning right now?

That's statistical analysis run amok. What has Andrew Luck done at this point to even say his name and hall of fame in the same sentence?

Cam Newton and Andrew Luck projections are all about POTENTIAL. Eli's done it. It's not if he does it, he's done it.


Cam and Andrew will have the stats. But people act like 1-2 super bowls is easy to come by. They aren't. One super bowl title is 1-31 chance of happening--that's nearly impossible. Two is a pipe dream.

Fans assume postseason greatness is some sort of right of passage for the younger, great QBs. It's anything but.

Terps  
hassan : 7/10/2017 1:58 pm : link
a hall of fame with Dan Hampton but no Carson was a joke. Same with Kenny Easly over Terrel Owens today. Lots of bs goes on there.
I can't even believe this is even a debate  
steve in ky : 7/10/2017 1:59 pm : link
He will certainly be in he HOF
LOL  
PaulN : 7/10/2017 2:20 pm : link
He is not a lock because the honor is voted on, so how can this man be a lock when he is the most disrespected QB I have ever seen. The NFL network hates the Giants, we know already that ESPN hates the Giants, and these are the big influences on people, most voters have no fucking clue, this is a popularity contest that we already know Eli loses on, so where is the lock?

In my opinion he is a Hall of Fame talent, no questions asked, that means nothing. His performances obviously mean nothing, Rivers gets more respect then does Eli, in peoples minds Prescott is already better then Eli, those are FACTS, they are horrible facts, but facts non the less. That is why there is only one way to beat them, win another Super Bowl, then who gives a shit if he doers get in, it will be the biggest embarrassment for the voters credibility, plus it will kill people if Eli actually ends up with more titles then the beloved rapist.
How kind to Eli is the national media?  
Mr. Bungle : 7/10/2017 2:23 pm : link
They vote for Hall of Fame induction, after all.
PaulN  
hassan : 7/10/2017 2:28 pm : link
Amen.
I got no opinion  
LCtheINTMachine : 7/10/2017 2:52 pm : link
but I'd be pretty shocked if he didn't get in.

Another factor is that the NFL is a declining sport with guys blowing their brains out and the millenial generation antics. Eli represents the sport well and it's a chance to make HOF weekend about Peyton so football needs him in the HOF when it comes down to it for the image of the sport.
The interception things is a head scratcher  
weeg in the bronx : 7/10/2017 5:53 pm : link
Many HOF QBs were INT machines. Of course Favre with 6 seasons over 20 INTs, but Fouts with 5 and Marino with 4. Moon has as many as Eli at 3. All but Marino have a higher % as well.
Why do people love to bring cam up?  
OBJ_AllDay : 7/10/2017 5:55 pm : link
He's had one monster year with a top of the league defense. He played out of his mind I'll give it to him. But last year he was a disaster and the year before the Super Bowl appearance I remember him constantly shooting the ball 5 yards over wide open players heads constantly.
RE: The interception things is a head scratcher  
SGMen : 7/10/2017 5:58 pm : link
In comment 13524688 weeg in the bronx said:
Quote:
Many HOF QBs were INT machines. Of course Favre with 6 seasons over 20 INTs, but Fouts with 5 and Marino with 4. Moon has as many as Eli at 3. All but Marino have a higher % as well.
Favre, Moon, Marino, Fouts - I got to watch them all play and all were risk takers, especially Favre.

I'll say it one last time, if Eli has that "year" where he just nails 4800+ - 40+ - 10 or less int, plus gets the Giants to the SB, he becomes a 1st ballot lock in my mind. A probowl, maybe those are even All-Pro numbers, and it will be hard to argue. The main reason I like him for a lot of TD's this year is turnovers. I think our defense will get him a good number as well as provide good field position.

Marshall, Engram, Ellison, J. Adams all improve the greenzone offense. FG attempts become TD's.
Hard to predict.  
Sarcastic Sam : 7/10/2017 7:01 pm : link
In an objective world, 2 SBs, 2 SB MVPs, being the only team to beat the Patriots... twice. That should be enough.

IMO being Peyton's brother only enhances his chances. Being the only brothers to be in the HOF is something that the Hall would probably be very interested in promoting.

And I think with the Chargers leaving San Diego, any lingering bitterness about the 2004 draft drama should be eased.

That being said... the HOF Selection Committee consists of 1 representative each from the 32 teams and 16 at large media members. A candidate must obtain 80% of the vote to be enshrined... so 39 votes minimum.

I think it will be hard for Eli to get a lot of the at large votes because most of those writers at one point or another mocked his pre-draft behavior or his play.

So I think that alone will kill his chances of getting in anytime soon.
As others have said...  
ZGiants98 : 7/10/2017 7:05 pm : link
If he retired today, he's a lock IMO. What he does over the next 3-4 years will determine if he's first ballot or not.
Interceptions  
gogiants : 7/10/2017 7:05 pm : link
Parcells to Phil Simms before an opening game in 1984 "‘If you don’t throw two interceptions today, you’re not taking enough chances."
Favre, Moon, Marino & Fouts = 1 Combined Super Bowl Victory  
Jimmy Googs : 7/10/2017 7:15 pm : link
Eli Manning = 2 Super Bowl Victories

i think he makes it in...
Where's Dep?  
Marty866b : 7/10/2017 7:56 pm : link
An Eli Manning discussion without Dep just seems wrong here. BTW,Eli is a lock. No doubt about it.
Cam has had a good career  
hassan : 7/10/2017 8:19 pm : link
While he does not have a body of work like Eli and is at risk of being ineffective going forward. But MVP means a lot and it is why he will be mentioned by the likes of espn. Personally he won't even make another pro bowl is my guess-the hits have hurt and his game is not to stay in the pocket.
If a bunch of computers were crunching stats and then choosing  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 7/10/2017 10:48 pm : link
who belongs, Eli would probably do fine.

It's not computers. Eli has a lot of detractors who think he is soft, unathletic, prone to tossing the ball up for grabs when under pressure.

They don't think that he deserved being a two time SB MVP. They would like to say publicly what they already say privately: that the Tyree pass and catch was one of the biggest flukes in the history of the sport.

Funny that when they talk about the Immaculate Reception, they don't call that a lucky fluke.
Really?  
lono801 : 7/11/2017 12:21 am : link
Jesus....
Even on BBI, Big Ben is overrated  
SHO'NUFF : 7/11/2017 5:28 am : link
How is he a lock, when we're not in agreement about Eli? The volume stats should not be heavily weighted in this day and age. If so, Rivers is HoF material, when in reality, he is not. It's a slippery slope because it paves the way for fantasy football Superstars that are undeserving.
RE: Even on BBI, Big Ben is overrated  
SGMen : 7/11/2017 5:47 am : link
In comment 13525055 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
How is he a lock, when we're not in agreement about Eli? The volume stats should not be heavily weighted in this day and age. If so, Rivers is HoF material, when in reality, he is not. It's a slippery slope because it paves the way for fantasy football Superstars that are undeserving.
Fantasy Football has definitely made things worse for Eli cause he isn't the "stat" guy that many others are, including Rivers in some years.

I still believe that all Eli needs is a big year this year for FF points; for NFC EAST champion points; for playoff points; and, for national TV points as we'll be on quite a bit; and finally another SB ring and he is a HoF lock even if he isn't SB MVP.
One thing about Eli that gets wildly overlooked,  
Section331 : 7/11/2017 9:21 am : link
even here on BBI, is how much impact he had on the 2nd SB run. He had the lowest ranked defense AND the lowest ranked running game in the NFL, and single-handedly kept his team in the hunt. Has another QB won a SB with the lowest ranked D and running games?

Add in 2 SB MVP's, and Fats makes a great point about how both of those being v. TOm Brady will play voters, and I think think Eli is knocking on the door. I'm not going to say he's a lock, there is this absurd anti-Eli bias among the media, but barring a complete meltdown, he's in.
And I will add one more thing -  
Section331 : 7/11/2017 9:22 am : link
getting to a SB isn't the same as winning it. Talk to me when Ryan, Cam, et al, have won SB's, not simply gotten there.
RE: One thing about Eli that gets wildly overlooked,  
Britt in VA : 7/11/2017 9:53 am : link
In comment 13525102 Section331 said:
Quote:
even here on BBI, is how much impact he had on the 2nd SB run. He had the lowest ranked defense AND the lowest ranked running game in the NFL, and single-handedly kept his team in the hunt. Has another QB won a SB with the lowest ranked D and running games?

Add in 2 SB MVP's, and Fats makes a great point about how both of those being v. TOm Brady will play voters, and I think think Eli is knocking on the door. I'm not going to say he's a lock, there is this absurd anti-Eli bias among the media, but barring a complete meltdown, he's in.


Another thing often not discussed about that year, were the two records he broke/tied.

7 4th quarter comebacks that season (tied for most ever)
14 4th quarter TD passes (broke longstanding record held by Unitas/Peyton)
Excuse me, 15 4th quarter TD passes  
Britt in VA : 7/11/2017 9:59 am : link
The previous record was 14.
Also, the significance of being the ONLY quarterback...  
Britt in VA : 7/11/2017 10:01 am : link
to beat Brady and Belichick, twice.

Including 18-0, which historically has the significance of the Jets over the Colts in Superbowl III. Not to mention arguably the greatest play in NFL history.
His resume is rock solid,  
Britt in VA : 7/11/2017 10:03 am : link
and frankly the ONLY thing many of these guys today that are considered locks are compiler stats. That's all they have. They don't win in the playoffs, they don't have rings, and they don't have any records or signature plays of significance other than large yard and TD totals. That's all they've got.
RE: Even on BBI, Big Ben is overrated  
Section331 : 7/11/2017 10:10 am : link
In comment 13525055 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
How is he a lock, when we're not in agreement about Eli? The volume stats should not be heavily weighted in this day and age. If so, Rivers is HoF material, when in reality, he is not. It's a slippery slope because it paves the way for fantasy football Superstars that are undeserving.


This is one of my big peeves on BBI, posters who claim Ben is a lock but Eli isn't. I think their cases are remarkably similar, Ben has a slight statistical advantage due to fewer TO's, Eli has the better performances in the big games (sorry, but Ben's first SB win was one of the worst QB performances in SB history). Ben was really good in the win over AZ, but also lost a playoff game to Tim fucking Tebow.

Personally, I don't think either is a lock, but both are really, really close.
First of all  
hassan : 7/11/2017 10:28 am : link
Brees Brady Rodgers and Big Ben and p Manning the locks are all super bowl winners and stat compilers. No one else is a lock and no one is making it just for stat compilation.

Ben R plays for a beloved franchise and has had a stat surge in his late years that helps his cause. And has made the bowl three times which helps.

If Eli played for gb or Pitt his odds would go up significantly.

Section331  
hassan : 7/11/2017 10:30 am : link
Ben is NOT much more deserving, maybe slightly more deserving, but the Steelers logo adds a lot of luster for a hof case.
How does eli..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/11/2017 10:34 am : link
get dinged for stats when he's in the top 10 of several key QB categories?

The logic used to poke holes in his candidacy is really poor.

Troy Aikman was never a stats star, but he won titles. Eli has the stats and the titles.

TRhen you have the Ben R vs. Eli comps where if you say Ben R is a lock and say Eli isn't, it is laughable by almost every metric. They have an almost identical stat line, right down to the number of titles.
Cam Newton  
Go Terps : 7/11/2017 10:35 am : link
Simply put, Cam Newton quit in the Super Bowl. In 30 years of watching sports I can't recall an athlete having a worse moment in a bigger situation. He could throw for 200,000 yards and 1,000 TDs...when he retires the first sentence in the summary of his career should be, "He quit in the Super Bowl."

You guys think I'm tough on Beckham; if Newton were our QB I'd post that GIF every day.
Lock.  
trueblueinpw : 7/11/2017 10:39 am : link
The most interesting thing on this thread is the notion that Eli and Romo are peers. They both played in the NFL. They both played in the NFC East. Not too sure what else they share in terms of accomplishments on the football field. I think Romo is by far the most overrated QB in the NFL during the four decades I've been watching. As long as we aren't counting big games, you can go ahead and put Rivers and Eli in the same group but not Romo. Gadzooks!
I think he's a HOFer  
Enzo : 7/11/2017 10:40 am : link
but I don't think it's a lock that the HOF voters elect anyone beyond the obvious upper tier from his era (Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers).
FMIC  
hassan : 7/11/2017 10:44 am : link
I won't bother getting into the stat discussion again but Ben R has a career rating 11 points higher than Eli with three super bowl appearances.

He is a similar player historically with less mistakes and a better logo in the court of public opinion. That is hardly laughable.



And btw fmic  
hassan : 7/11/2017 10:46 am : link
You suggested players with aggregate stats on offense always make it. Why are Bruce and Holt not in yet?

Maybe there is a growing recognition of the fantasy era we are in overstating the value of these players.
Kurt Warner..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/11/2017 10:48 am : link
being in the Hall paves the way for a lot of guys who have titles. You can't make many arguments for Warner that aren't covered when talking about Eli or Ben.

and that's the rub - for every QB with questionable credentials - Eli passes him on a couple or several levels.

Moon - no NFL titles, but longevity and the CFL career - Eli - 2 SB MVP's and in the top 10 for stats

Namath - Made a bold prediction and won a SB vs. the NFL stalwart Colts. Star of NYC - Eli has 2 SB MVP's vs. the NFL stalwart Pats's. Star of NYC

Warner - went from grocery store guy to NFL MVP and SB winner. Short career - Eli has the longevity and two titles

There's really not going to be a compelling argument to keep him out and when HoF voters look up and see a guy in the top 5 of almost every QB stat, with what might end up being the longest consecutive game streak ever - he's a lock.
I forgot about the Cam Newton "play"  
Ron Johnson 30 : 7/11/2017 10:51 am : link
man, that is ugly. How does a player live that down?
I think..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/11/2017 10:54 am : link
both Bruce and Holt will be in the HoF at some point.

And again - if you overvalue stats with Eli, you then have the two titles and MVP's.

What I'm saying is that by some criteria, Eli has it covered, whether it be statistical - titles - consecutive game streak (toughness) - high-profile team.

Making it seem like the steelers are a vaunted franchise and the Giants aren't is also disingenuous.

If voters point to weaknesses in Eli, you can literally point to several players already in the Hall that eli is better than on any of his "weaknesses". Voters will put him in, and 5 years after he's done playing, the legacy of beating Brady will remain strong - especially if no other QB beats him - Thank You Matt ryan!!
There is only one QB that won two Super Bowls who isn't in Canton  
Greg from LI : 7/11/2017 10:59 am : link
And it's Jim Plunkett, who was awful early in his career in New England and San Francisco before landing in Oakland as Stabler's backup. Every other multiple SB-winning QB is in the Hall.
Saying the Steelers  
hassan : 7/11/2017 11:17 am : link
Have more cachet than ny Giants isn't suggesting the NY Giants are chopped liver. You yourself have researched ref bias against nyg. There are lots of writers who are anti ny. So 'disingenuous'??

We have beaten this to death. I would suggest Eli is a polarizing figure and may be the outlier.
RE: Section331  
Section331 : 7/11/2017 11:20 am : link
In comment 13525193 hassan said:
Quote:
Ben is NOT much more deserving, maybe slightly more deserving, but the Steelers logo adds a lot of luster for a hof case.


Why does a Steelers' logo add more luster than a Giants'? I don't buy that at all.
RE: FMIC  
Section331 : 7/11/2017 11:25 am : link
In comment 13525207 hassan said:
Quote:
I won't bother getting into the stat discussion again but Ben R has a career rating 11 points higher than Eli with three super bowl appearances.

He is a similar player historically with less mistakes and a better logo in the court of public opinion. That is hardly laughable.



And he also won SB's with the 4th rated defense and 5th rated rushing attack, and then the highest rated for both. Context matters. Again, Eli's 2nd SB is all on him. I can't think of any SB winning QB who did more with less.
Pages: 1 2 3 <<Prev | Show All |  Next>>
Back to the Corner