Before i start of course Brees puts up better numbers than Eli but since his first championship in 2009 what has he really done better than Eli other than meaningless stats? People slob all over Brees and call him a top 5 quarterback even though since 2011 is teams have underachieved or flat out stunk. Since the 2011 season they both made the playoffs once but no one holds that against Brees. I try not to be an Eli homer but the disrespect is starting to get out of hand.
But here's the huge difference, Eli has played only 16 games indoors compared to Brees playing almost 110! And the other thing that is interesting - if you extrapolate eli's indoor stats to over 100 games, what do you know - he's again very close or better than Brees.
But no, weather can't possibly make a difference......
I'll repeat, with thanks to Uncle Junior's: Brees is a hot house flower. The next game he wins after getting the shit kicked out of him all day like Eli did againt the Niners in the2011 NFC Title game will be the first.
QB debates get a lot tougher when you compare guys like Eli and Brees and the rest. It's all but impossible to say who is truly better. Brees has some of the numbers but Eli has the two rings. Everyone says Brees but in reality it's not that simple. Brees plays in a dome and has probably had the more static offensive system than Eli has played in.
If you swapped Brees for Eli would the Saints really be worse off in the long run? Would the Giants be better off? Would the Giants have two more super bowl titles after 1990? I can't say for sure they would. They'd possibly have the more "prolific" QB but would Brees have delived the two titles in NY? I don't think so. MAybe one yes...but two? You're gonna guarantee that? You can't.
If you go by stats, fine, knock yourself out, but it's not that simple.
Or you could say BRees is clearly better based on his higher TD totals and higher completion %. It's not THAT much higher where we have to turn a blind eye to some of the differences in intangibles. Plus, Brees has started more games.
I'd be happy with either guy but I know Eli won two titles here. Bird in the hand...i'll keep it.
I'm not sure Brees ever played with the type of defense that the Giants had in the playoffs in 07 and 11. There's certainly some arguments in favor of Eli (mainly that Brees' numbers are inflated with 8 games in a dome each year versus Eli playing outside in sometimes cold weather) but the extra ring doesn't really swing much for me here.
Don't tell me Eli doesn't have better career stats if he plays in 100 more dome games. I can't take that take seriously. Just about any QB would put up better stats if they played more dome games.
Meanwhile, Brees' stats outside are very similar to Eli's.
That's why I don't buy the argument that stats tell the whole story and that saying Eli is as good as brees is laughable as a couple people have pointed out, not surprisingly one of them being KWALL.....
People are writing Eli off based on alleged struggles in 2016. I aint buyint it. I think Eli has a great 4th quarter of his career lined up. His team is nasty. Brees has hot garbage other than good WRs and RBs. His team won't win jack shit with that defense.
Eli is not done. He's going to have a big year.
Rodgers is the best pure QB alive. It's not even close.
You typically can't put QBs in a vacuum when judging their game but in the case of Rodgers, you can. He's a transcendent QB talent the likes of which we really haven't seen. He'd play well in a parking lot. He's elevate any franchise. He's Marino with better mobility and on the run ability and he's got a ring. He's a ridiculous QB. No one is in his class.
Eli is not the best QB in the NFL. But people who try to say that Ben R, Brees, Rivers or anyone else around is head and shoulders above him, I just can't take that argument seriously either.
Don't tell me Eli doesn't have better career stats if he plays in 100 more dome games. I can't take that take seriously. Just about any QB would put up better stats if they played more dome games.
I meant to say if you give Eli 60 more TDs.
Meanwhile, Brees' stats outside are very similar to Eli's.
That's why I don't buy the argument that stats tell the whole story and that saying Eli is as good as brees is laughable as a couple people have pointed out, not surprisingly one of them being KWALL.....
Yup fair enough. I knew the splits would show a difference just wasn't sure how much.
Like I said, if you're gonna sit here and tell me that the Giants franchise would be better off with Brees at the helm since 2005 over Eli I will say you're fucking nuts. There's evidence to support the claim that the Giants would NOT be better off with Brees, and it's possible they'd be worse off, if only by a little bit.
Brees is a great QB. So is Eli. We know Eli won in NY and won twice. We also know that Brees is not the same QB outside and doesn't raise his game on the road in the playoffs like Eli has. These are facts. Stats are not the end all be all.
That was the worst quarter of fundamental football I have seen in my 40 yrs as a Giants fan, and it came at the most important time. I for one still will not forgive OBJ until he proves it in January.
Go back and study the tape. That first quarter, playoff Eli showed up trying to put the team on his back. The pass catchers let him down, massively.
Gotta love BBI
...and both should be in the Hall of Fame one day.
And Brees is a greater "great" than Eli.
Is there really any question about this?
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Gotta love BBI
Yea, where people credit one player for a game that has three phases and 11 players in each.
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In comment 13526243 Gmen1982 said:
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Gotta love BBI
Yea, where people credit one player for a game that has three phases and 11 players in each.
One constant about this place is the need for some fans to minimize the contributions of the rest of the team, and other QB's to prop up Eli. I love me some Eli, but some of the posters here are WAY too insecure, and take slight criticism as something to be offended by. I think both Brees and Eli are HOFers, but I think Brees has a better shot at making it on the first ballot than Eli.
Don't tell me Eli doesn't have better career stats if he plays in 100 more dome games. I can't take that take seriously. Just about any QB would put up better stats if they played more dome games.
What did Eli have, like 6 TDs in their dome a couple of years ago? Don't forget, Payton likes to run up the score and Brees loves to cherry-pick those little 1-yard TDs at the goalline. The TC era Giants get a decent lead and start to get run happy and go into clock kill mode.
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In comment 13526265 NYG007 said:
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In comment 13526243 Gmen1982 said:
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Gotta love BBI
Yea, where people credit one player for a game that has three phases and 11 players in each.
One constant about this place is the need for some fans to minimize the contributions of the rest of the team, and other QB's to prop up Eli. I love me some Eli, but some of the posters here are WAY too insecure, and take slight criticism as something to be offended by. I think both Brees and Eli are HOFers, but I think Brees has a better shot at making it on the first ballot than Eli.
People aren't hating. It's the perception that Eli isn't in Brees's league by the media and other fans. Ultimately, this perception will cost Eli at least a first ballot HoF selection.
I love me some Brees. Won me a lot of fantasy games.
First of all, he wouldn't be playing the dome defenses in every game would he? It would be great if NYG got to play the STL, DET, NO, and IND defense every week. MIN? not so much and he really struggled in the 4 games vs MIN.
He played 18 dome games. Not 16. The median game? Not so impressive.
His best and worst dome games were in 2015. Vs the 32nd ranked defense in NO, he threw 6 TDs-0Int. A few weeks later vs MIN he was 15-29 with 1-3.
Take away the best and worst game and we have 16 games for an average season. That average isn't close to Brees. In fact, that 16 game average in the dome games, would be a below average season for Eli.
Just like the quality of the opposing defense which I think would be a bigger factor, wouldn't you?
Just like the quality of the opposing defense which I think would be a bigger factor, wouldn't you?
I agree. I don't think the sample of outdoor games for Eli is big enough to draw a strong conclusion, in part because of the quality of defense issue. When you have a 100 game sample, those things matter less.
I wouldn't go back in time and swap Eli for Brees given the two SB's, but I think Brees has been a better QB than Eli.
4600 yards, 45Tds, 9Int
His season:
61.4% completion. 20 TDs. 16 Ints.
I'd be inclined to say Brees is a better quarterback than Eli; that's no insult to Eli...Brees is better than almost everybody. Technically he's damn near perfect.
But I don't see the need to rank guys linearly. There are things Brees does better than Eli (mechanics, accuracy), but there are things I think Eli does better than Brees, too...I think he's better at reading the defense pre-snap, and I think he's better under pressure.
I think it's been proven that you can do just fine with either guy.
I'd be inclined to say Brees is a better quarterback than Eli; that's no insult to Eli...Brees is better than almost everybody. Technically he's damn near perfect.
But I don't see the need to rank guys linearly. There are things Brees does better than Eli (mechanics, accuracy), but there are things I think Eli does better than Brees, too...I think he's better at reading the defense pre-snap, and I think he's better under pressure.
I think it's been proven that you can do just fine with either guy.
This really is the best take on both QBs. I agree with the whole linear thing, especially in regards to QBs.
If you want to go on stats and even at times, the eye test, Brees has had the more prolific career. To me it goes beyond that stuff when analyzing both QBs. They are very close, stats be damned.
In 18 dome games, its 224/game. This is below his career average on the road.
Not including rookie year. (no dome games in rookie year).
11 seasons:
Eli averaged 247 yards/game in outdoor road games.
His 16 game average on the road:
3950 yards. 25Tds 17Ints
That's better than his play in the 18 dome games. More yards/game. Better TD%, YPA, and INT%. Completion % is higher in the dome.
Numbers in 18 Dome: 61.7% 4.4% TD 3.2% INT 6.87 YPA
Road numbers (minus all dome games): 59% 4.7%TD 3.0 INT% 7.1YPA
Some of the best, such as Rodgers, Brady and Ben do not see any drop.
Nothing was posted on Brees in the article. He's only had a 9 games under 40 but his numbers are very good in these games. 18-7 TD to INT and 100+ rating.
Brees has been good in windy games. He has a 98 QB rating 5 games with 15+ MPH.
You can't knock Brees about cold weather. Combine the cold and windy games you have 15 games, a 100+ QB rating and they are all road games.
He played at Purdue. He has enormous hands. He's proven to be a QB where the weather doesn't really impact his play.
QBs play in cold - ( New Window )
A coach and his system can make our break a player's career.
TC would have made Jimmy Graham either block, or sit the bench.
Both are very good QBs, very similar W/L records. The difference between the Great QBs and the very good QBs is usually the records of the teams. The great QBs seem to find a way to get their teams to the playoffs every season, the very good ones are usually on the cusp of getting in so between 7-10 wins each season, some a little more some less. The bad ones rarely get to the playoffs.
What city did Eli save after Hurricane Sandy? Hoboken.
Case closed.
It's actually at least 9 games a year in a dome because he plays Atlanta on the road every year.
We haven't seen a jump in Eli's numbers in the dome. Dome numbers are not better than his road numbers in outdoor games.
All of you knocking Brees outside of the dome? You have it wrong. His numbers on the road are some of the best ever at the position.
Brees: 16 seasons, 3rd all-time in passing yards, 3rd all-time passing touchdowns.
Eli: 13 seasons, 8th all-time in passing yards, 7th all-time in passing touchdowns.
But "not in his league." LOL. Whatever.
Even doing that the gap between Manning and Bree's in these categories is enormous. 20,000 more yards. 150 more TDs. While throwing the same number of INTs. And playing much better than Eli outdoors and on the road.
Bree's is elite. Eli isn't. He's been very good at times. Never misses a game. But his best never reached Bree's level and he doesn't come close to the consistency Bree's has shown in 10+ years.
We have people trying to knock Bree's as only a dome guy but the numbers tell a different story. He's been excellent away from Domes, on the road, in cold weather and in windy conditions.
Aaron Rodgers is better than Eli
and it is not close.
Even doing that the gap between Manning and Bree's in these categories is enormous. 20,000 more yards. 150 more TDs. While throwing the same number of INTs. And playing much better than Eli outdoors and on the road.
Bree's is elite. Eli isn't. He's been very good at times. Never misses a game. But his best never reached Bree's level and he doesn't come close to the consistency Bree's has shown in 10+ years.
We have people trying to knock Bree's as only a dome guy but the numbers tell a different story. He's been excellent away from Domes, on the road, in cold weather and in windy conditions.
Saying Eli isn't in Brees' league is ridiculous. Brees is a better quarterback. Can't that be enough? Must hyperbole be a part of every discussion?
For over 10 years Bree's has been elite. And he did it iyear after year after year. Consistently a top 5 QB.
Eli hasn't. When was Eli top 5? Maybe once.
That separates the "leagues" between these players.
In the end, I think Eli is too unselfish.