Before i start of course Brees puts up better numbers than Eli but since his first championship in 2009 what has he really done better than Eli other than meaningless stats? People slob all over Brees and call him a top 5 quarterback even though since 2011 is teams have underachieved or flat out stunk. Since the 2011 season they both made the playoffs once but no one holds that against Brees. I try not to be an Eli homer but the disrespect is starting to get out of hand.
If he' so much better why hasn't he won more than Eli? Brees had three successful years where he actually won 2009-2011 but after that his teams produced less to or equal that of Eli's. Like i said if you want stats i'd go with Brees but this guy hasn't won nearly as much as people would want you to believe.
Yeah, those teams stunk because the Saints had atrocious defenses.
Off/Def Ranks
16': 2/31
15: 8/32
14: 9/28
13: 10/4 (they went 11-5 this year)
12: 3/31
11: 2/13 (13-3)
10: 11/7 (11-5)
09: 1/20 (13-3, won SB)
If Drew Brees had an average defense, I bet they make the playoffs every year and win another SB.
I'm sure someone has done some type of statistical study, but playing at least half your games in a dome probably provides a statistical edge
Eli is absolutely not "right there" with Aaron Rodgers.
Stop it.
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Yeah, those teams stunk because the Saints had atrocious defenses.
Off/Def Ranks
16': 2/31
15: 8/32
14: 9/28
13: 10/4 (they went 11-5 this year)
12: 3/31
11: 2/13 (13-3)
10: 11/7 (11-5)
09: 1/20 (13-3, won SB)
If Drew Brees had an average defense, I bet they make the playoffs every year and win another SB.
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Really that defense they had in that first season under Rob Ryan in 2013 was a pretty good defense and they got crushed by the Seahawks in that playoff game where Brees didn't show up. People will make any excuses in the world for why Brees doesn't win. Same could be said about if Eli had a decent defense as we seen this year.
I like Brees. Seems like a good guy, a good leader and has been the face of the saints for years. I actually think he and eli are VERY similar. Both put up good numbers, both make critical mistakes, both have excellent images.
And more importantly in regards to other discussions going on right now - both are HoF QB's.
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But not by much, his stats are better, and he also needs a good team to win, no different then Eli. I agree with the disrespect that Eli gets, agree with your point, but don't agree if you believe that Eli is better, sorry but I can't agree with that. Eli is right there with Brees and Rodgers and Ben. He is not as good as his brother or Brady, but he is in the same class as the three I mentioned, not better then them though, you can make a better argument for those three being better, but the difference is not that much in my opinion.
Eli is absolutely not "right there" with Aaron Rodgers.
Stop it.
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Ok in the regular season Rodgers is far better than Eli but i must ask you again if Aaron Rodgers is so great why is it that his play dips in the post season?
The Matt Ryan's, Cam Newton's, Drew Brees' deserve their credit as it's due. But let's remember the conference and climate they play in.
For Christ sakes Josh Frickin' Freeman looked like a darn good QB in that uncompetitive, shitty, perfect-throwing-conditions division.
Brees plays 9 games a year in a dome (8 home + 1 @ ATL). The other divisional games are at Carolina (typically good weather and ideal passing conditions, and Tampa Bay (the same as @ CAR).
I remember when he lit the league on fire a few years back and threw God-like numbers up and everyone was ranting and raving about how great he is. Look, the guy's a terrific QB but put Eli, Rivers (who also has a great passing schedule), Brady, Rodgers, etc. in those conditions and it's the same or damn close numbers-wise.
Anyone who says Brees is better than Eli is looking at 1 thing: stats.
Stats are for losers. I'll take Captain Clutch every day of the week, twice on Sunday.
Has Drew Brees beat Tom Brady/Bill Belichick in the Super Bowl? Nope. Twice? Nope. Beat arguably the greatest team of all time ruining their undefeated season? Nope. Gone into Green Bay TWICE and knocked off Brett Favre then Aaron Rodgers? Nope.
So please, spare me this BS about Brees. Eli all day.
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In comment 13525315 PaulN said:
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But not by much, his stats are better, and he also needs a good team to win, no different then Eli. I agree with the disrespect that Eli gets, agree with your point, but don't agree if you believe that Eli is better, sorry but I can't agree with that. Eli is right there with Brees and Rodgers and Ben. He is not as good as his brother or Brady, but he is in the same class as the three I mentioned, not better then them though, you can make a better argument for those three being better, but the difference is not that much in my opinion.
Eli is absolutely not "right there" with Aaron Rodgers.
Stop it.
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Ok in the regular season Rodgers is far better than Eli but i must ask you again if Aaron Rodgers is so great why is it that his play dips in the post season?
36 career playoff TD passes to 10 INTs. A Super Bowl ring and a 99.4 QBR.
I don't think you've watched much of Rodgers in the playoffs because that isn't a true statement.
Brees or Eli?
I was thinking this very same thing.
And to quantify this statement a bit, Eli is my favorite football player of all time and it's not close.
Eli's career winning%: 550
But I know, I know... Super Bowls are 2 to 1 baby. That's all that matters.
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In comment 13525292 Mike in Long Beach said:
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Yeah, those teams stunk because the Saints had atrocious defenses.
Off/Def Ranks
16': 2/31
15: 8/32
14: 9/28
13: 10/4 (they went 11-5 this year)
12: 3/31
11: 2/13 (13-3)
10: 11/7 (11-5)
09: 1/20 (13-3, won SB)
If Drew Brees had an average defense, I bet they make the playoffs every year and win another SB.
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Really that defense they had in that first season under Rob Ryan in 2013 was a pretty good defense and they got crushed by the Seahawks in that playoff game where Brees didn't show up. People will make any excuses in the world for why Brees doesn't win. Same could be said about if Eli had a decent defense as we seen this year.
You're confusing the SNF or MNF game that year where the Saints did get annihilated.
The playoff game was a one score game that went down to the final play.
There are similarities between Brees and Eli....they both tend to throw a good amount of interceptions to offset their big time throws.
Eli peak is better than Brees post 2013 maybe, but on average Brees has been better. If the Saints had a top 5 defense they would definitely make noise in the postseason.
This year will be telling if the Giants defense returns to top 5 level. Eli will be expected to produce no questions asked.
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Yeah, those teams stunk because the Saints had atrocious defenses.
Off/Def Ranks
16': 2/31
15: 8/32
14: 9/28
13: 10/4 (they went 11-5 this year)
12: 3/31
11: 2/13 (13-3)
10: 11/7 (11-5)
09: 1/20 (13-3, won SB)
If Drew Brees had an average defense, I bet they make the playoffs every year and win another SB.
Pretty close to Eli, then.
Since 2005, people also have this misconception that Eli has had great defenses year after year. It's false.
Big Ben has had amazing defenses, however, and even San Diego has had better overall defenses since. Go look that up if you don't believe it.
So yes, Drew can't do it alone. But that is all the media and fans rag on Eli for.
Mike in Long Beach : 12:28 pm : link : reply
Stop it, guys.
Are we going to mock comparing two fairly equal players on extremeskins or will we mock a Cousins vs. Eli comp?
Or maybe the RGIII will be a star for decades thread?
Eli and Brees are very similar players
Jimmy Graham was pretty f-ing good in the Saints offense. He suffered the same injury Cruz did and isn't used the same way in SEA as he was in NO.
In addition to Graham, Marques Colston, Brandin Cooks, Reggie Bush, Darren Sproles and more and don't forget Brees was in SD with Ladainian Tomlinson and Antonio Gates
Anyway, agree with others, Eli and Rodgers is a silly discussion that only would exist among Giants fans.
Eli and Brees is a conversation.
Nationally, outside Giants nation Brees is far and away rated higher (and I'm not talking stats), but some of that is Eli bias, some of it is just that Brees is a damn good QB, like Eli so people have their preference.
nothing I'd get worked up over if someone had Brees over Eli or vice versa. One thing people do is give QB's too much credit for wins and losses. Too many variables on a football field to put all that responsibility on one player. But that's not going to change.
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These are the type of threads we mock on ExtremeSkins
Mike in Long Beach : 12:28 pm : link : reply
Stop it, guys.
Are we going to mock comparing two fairly equal players on extremeskins or will we mock a Cousins vs. Eli comp?
Or maybe the RGIII will be a star for decades thread?
Eli and Brees are very similar players
k.
If you put all the QBs in Eli's era and they were all the same age and you know what they can do where would you draft him?
I think if you set up a draft board like the Giants do then Eli winds up in the 2nd tier along with a bunch of other guys like Brees, Romo, McNabb, Ryan.
The 1st tier would be Peyton, Brady, Rodgers, Farve
Thats the way I see it
As a fan, I wouldn't trade a Lombardi trophy for anything. Championships is all that matters.
Not at any point.
Not at any point.
I suspect the Saints say the same thing. They would never have traded Brees for Eli.
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Stop it, guys.
And to quantify this statement a bit, Eli is my favorite football player of all time and it's not close.
What exactly are you quantifying there?
And I know, Eli is 2 years younger, so he's clearly tossing 9,000 yards and 76 touchdowns in each of the next two seasons and evening up the scorecard.
Good grief.
What's annoying is there are certainly qualifiers that absolutely legitimately do level that playing field. Brees has played in a dome for almost all of his career and that's inflated him numbers. But to lean on this as something that evens up the score is just so... I mean Jesus.
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Here's the bottom line: who's won more SB's
As a fan, I wouldn't trade a Lombardi trophy for anything. Championships is all that matters.
How does that make one player better than another.
Charles Haley has 5 rings, is he better than Lawrence Taylor (Haley started out as an 3-4 OLB before moving to 4-3 DE like LT probably would have if he played in a 4-3).
Football is a team game, basing who is better or worse among players based on team wins is flawed.
I too cherish the rings more than anything else, but I also don't give a shit if someone prefers Brees to Eli or even Cousins to Eli. Just don't give a shit.
Eli has played three season less than Brees, so while he won't match those numbers, he'll still be close and hasn't had the luxury of playing in a dome.
Like I said above - Brees' stats outside of the dome are completely different:
- Winning % - 13% lower
- Completion % - 5% lower
- QBR - 12 points lower
- In 6 more games outdoors, Brees has thrown for 5100 less yards
- 64 more TD's indoors in 6 fewer games
The differences are quite staggering.
The answer to that is of course yes. That Doesn't change the fact that I would pick Eli over most QB's because he is not only a great QB but a perfect fit for the NY media.
Now I can only hope in three years that Webb is the second coming of John Elway (without the need for all those comebacks)
This past year Drew and his offense cost them several games one being a home game against an okay Lions squad, and laid an egg. But to mosr and the media, it's all the Saints defense fault. That game versus the Giants, not their defense's fault.
As far as Eli goes, the two players couldn't have played in more different conditions. From NY to NO both in weather/field as well as the sports atmosphere and expectations in their given locales.
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some of you that you're a Giants fans we're on a Giants site... so those of you saying you'd pick Eli over Brees, you're just a little biased don't ya think?
The answer to that is of course yes. That Doesn't change the fact that I would pick Eli over most QB's because he is not only a great QB but a perfect fit for the NY media.
Now I can only hope in three years that Webb is the second coming of John Elway (without the need for all those comebacks)
I personally think the 'he's a great fit for the NY media' mantra is a bit overdone as well. Plenty of QBs have played in this city and I don't think too many of them didn't succeed because of the NY media. But hey... you guys are entitled to your opinions.
Eli is a B+ quarterback who, due to fantastic durability and two runs for the ages, has an A+ resume.
Drew is an A quarterback with an A- resume.
So Brees slings it a little better. Big deal. We can still be OK with our guy.
It was pretty funny watching the Saints run their 2 min offense vs the Lions with the game out of reach only to watch Brees throw a RZ INT.
Now, he is the second coming. Please continue the stupidity.
The question is how much of a difference? I don't think it's as great as some here would have you believe.
Now, he is the second coming. Please continue the stupidity.
You're the best. You should save that thread and print it out so you can read it every now and then and have some proof of that time 16 years ago when 99% of BBI said Drew Brees sucked monkey balls and you said he didn't and the Giants should pick him.
And yes, we will continue the stupidity unless of course you care to chime in on a thread and drop some of your vast knowledge on it, otherwise yes we will continue the stupidity.
Bravo NNJ Tom, Bravo
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Because it's a TEAM game. Eli had good performances and his TEAM played well enough to win the game.
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If he' so much better why hasn't he won more than Eli? Brees had three successful years where he actually won 2009-2011 but after that his teams produced less to or equal that of Eli's. Like i said if you want stats i'd go with Brees but this guy hasn't won nearly as much as people would want you to believe.
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I think NY definitely matters. Maybe not in basketball or baseball but for Football it makes a difference. Roethlisberger doesn't survive the rape scandal in NY, IMO. Brees would have been fine, but I can see it weighing on players much more heavily than it would playing with essentially zero media coverage in new orleans.
The question is how much of a difference? I don't think it's as great as some here would have you believe.
Of course and it isn't quantifiable so there's no way to prove anything.
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In comment 13525452 UConn4523 said:
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I think NY definitely matters. Maybe not in basketball or baseball but for Football it makes a difference. Roethlisberger doesn't survive the rape scandal in NY, IMO. Brees would have been fine, but I can see it weighing on players much more heavily than it would playing with essentially zero media coverage in new orleans.
The question is how much of a difference? I don't think it's as great as some here would have you believe.
Of course and it isn't quantifiable so there's no way to prove anything.
And yet it's constantly used as a reason why Eli is better than *insert pro QB's name here*.
He's still an outstanding QB, and definitely will be in the HOF.
My point.....you know when you play the Saints, they are going to put the foot to the pedal and keep coming at you.
With that, the opposition goes in with that attitude...and attacks themselves on offense.
You never go to NO and think you're going to win 20-13......
All the stats that Brees rings up....could that actually be a detriment to his team, big picture?
Having such a bad defense effects the QB mentality and the QB is forced to always play aggressively and take risks hence he has high amounts of INTs compared to Rodgers and Brady but he is at the same level as them.. He has a higher playoff QB rating than Brady and Rodgers..
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And I know, Eli is 2 years younger, so he's clearly tossing 9,000 yards and 76 touchdowns in each of the next two seasons and evening up the scorecard.
Eli has played three season less than Brees, so while he won't match those numbers, he'll still be close and hasn't had the luxury of playing in a dome.
Like I said above - Brees' stats outside of the dome are completely different:
- Winning % - 13% lower
- Completion % - 5% lower
- QBR - 12 points lower
- In 6 more games outdoors, Brees has thrown for 5100 less yards
- 64 more TD's indoors in 6 fewer games
The differences are quite staggering.
Other than winning % which is a team stat. I am pretty sure all of the other numbers for Brees outside the dome are still better than Eli in general..
I can easily argue Eli is equal or better than Ben but Brees is on another tier or 2 above Eli.. You can still make the HoF with the numbers that Brees puts up on the road..
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In comment 13525476 T-Bone said:
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In comment 13525452 UConn4523 said:
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I think NY definitely matters. Maybe not in basketball or baseball but for Football it makes a difference. Roethlisberger doesn't survive the rape scandal in NY, IMO. Brees would have been fine, but I can see it weighing on players much more heavily than it would playing with essentially zero media coverage in new orleans.
The question is how much of a difference? I don't think it's as great as some here would have you believe.
Of course and it isn't quantifiable so there's no way to prove anything.
And yet it's constantly used as a reason why Eli is better than *insert pro QB's name here*.
I don't have a problem with it. You can insert Romo in there as well, he handled the onslaught of media attention as well as anyone over the course of his career and it never seemed to effect his play.
+1
Saying you'd take Eli over Brady, Rodgers, or any other QB is really an emotional opinion.
Brady is the correct answer to this question, and his comebacks against Seattle and Atlanta should really remove any doubt.
everyone is entitled to their opinions and I don't mean to make it seem like mine is better but if you pose this question on a national level "one game, championship on the line, team is static other than QB, you can pick any current QB" Eli isn't being picked by many ahead of Brady or Rodgers.
I don't care how many people + it after the post.
Just this morning on GMFB, the hosts were lamenting the fact that Phillip Rivers' game suffered last year because the Chargers led the league in injuries. I don't recall anyone mentioning the number of injuries the Giants had when the led they league for three years straight and missed the playoffs in those years. No, it was because Eli threw a lot of interceptions. Drives me nuts.
Then you have the folks who say that Eli's two Super Bowl MVPs are tainted because he played with great defenses. Well, first of all, what Super Bowl-winning QBs didn't play with great defenses? And it wasn't the defense that threw two TD passes in the 4th quarter to beat the Pats in 2007.
But people comparing Eli to Brady or Rodgers are just delusional.
Brees, Ben, Ryan, Wilson, better cases, but then you're splitting hairs.
the fans who compare him with Sam Bradford or Alex Smith are equally delusional but the opposite way.
Most fans of other teams will not take Eli over either of those players. And if you ask them who they would prefer to play AGAINST in a big game....they are choosing Eli.
As Giants fans we realized the intangibles that Eli brings to the table in a big game. It will be interesting to see what Eli brings to the table this upcoming year.
There are some here that feel Eli is not a lock. Brees will get in on Stats alone in a Dome no less.
Eli has comparable numbers and 2 Super Bowl wins over Brady in the 4th quarter, but will somehow struggle to get into the HOF.
Ones a Stat pusher and the other a proven winner.
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but there isn't a QB playing today (including Brady and Rodgers) that I would take over Eli with the championdhip on the line. None. Period.
Saying you'd take Eli over Brady, Rodgers, or any other QB is really an emotional opinion.
Brady is the correct answer to this question, and his comebacks against Seattle and Atlanta should really remove any doubt.
everyone is entitled to their opinions and I don't mean to make it seem like mine is better but if you pose this question on a national level "one game, championship on the line, team is static other than QB, you can pick any current QB" Eli isn't being picked by many ahead of Brady or Rodgers.
I don't care how many people + it after the post.
I don't care about the opinions of others. They are entitled. Mine is that I would take no one over Eli with a winner-take-all game on the line..It's not emotional on my part albeit certainly subjective to a degree. No more than subjective opinions on the guys you mention, both great and first ballot HOFers..In fact, I have never seen two playoff runs by ANY QB EVER anything close to what Eli helped to pull off. With the exception of Tampa Bay (2008) and POSSIBLY Atlanta (2012), the teams we played in THEIR house were, imo, much better than the Giants were..
Brady, Rodgers, NEVER had to overcome so many playoff teams en route to their SB that were CLEARLY superior to them. Better? Maybe. As superior as the away teams Eli faced? Not even close, imv..
I AM NOT making a case for Eli as better than those two as clearly he isn't, but that's not the point I'm making..
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but there isn't a QB playing today (including Brady and Rodgers) that I would take over Eli with the championdhip on the line. None. Period.
Most fans of other teams will not take Eli over either of those players. And if you ask them who they would prefer to play AGAINST in a big game....they are choosing Eli.
As Giants fans we realized the intangibles that Eli brings to the table in a big game. It will be interesting to see what Eli brings to the table this upcoming year.
Well, most fans were also left holding their dicks while watching Eli win two improbable Superbowls they gave him no chance in, during two improbable seasons, with two improbable game winning drives, each featuring two of the most improbable plays in Superbowl history on the arm of Manning.
Most fans dream about those things, and they will likely never happen for their sorry ass teams (Redskins/Eagles/Cowboys). Most fans are idiots.
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but there isn't a QB playing today (including Brady and Rodgers) that I would take over Eli with the championdhip on the line. None. Period.
Most fans of other teams will not take Eli over either of those players. And if you ask them who they would prefer to play AGAINST in a big game....they are choosing Eli.
As Giants fans we realized the intangibles that Eli brings to the table in a big game. It will be interesting to see what Eli brings to the table this upcoming year.
Per my post above this, I don't care what other teams' fans think about Eli..I have seen them all and Eli is MY PICK to QB a winner take all championship game..That is my pick for the best in a championship game..Others have theirs
He would be a lot of team's greatest player ever. Hell, he's in the discussion for greatest Giant ever, and that's one of the most, if not THE most storied team in the NFL.
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In comment 13525528 Big Blue '56 said:
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but there isn't a QB playing today (including Brady and Rodgers) that I would take over Eli with the championdhip on the line. None. Period.
Saying you'd take Eli over Brady, Rodgers, or any other QB is really an emotional opinion.
Brady is the correct answer to this question, and his comebacks against Seattle and Atlanta should really remove any doubt.
everyone is entitled to their opinions and I don't mean to make it seem like mine is better but if you pose this question on a national level "one game, championship on the line, team is static other than QB, you can pick any current QB" Eli isn't being picked by many ahead of Brady or Rodgers.
I don't care how many people + it after the post.
I don't care about the opinions of others. They are entitled. Mine is that I would take no one over Eli with a winner-take-all game on the line..It's not emotional on my part albeit certainly subjective to a degree. No more than subjective opinions on the guys you mention, both great and first ballot HOFers..In fact, I have never seen two playoff runs by ANY QB EVER anything close to what Eli helped to pull off. With the exception of Tampa Bay (2008) and POSSIBLY Atlanta (2012), the teams we played in THEIR house were, imo, much better than the Giants were..
Brady, Rodgers, NEVER had to overcome so many playoff teams en route to their SB that were CLEARLY superior to them. Better? Maybe. As superior as the away teams Eli faced? Not even close, imv..
I AM NOT making a case for Eli as better than those two as clearly he isn't, but that's not the point I'm making..
I get it and I respect your opinion, though I disagree with it.
I like Eli, so I'm not an Eli-hating Giants fan, but I also have to consider the fact that while the Giants won the 2 SB's Eli has made it to, his team has only made it to the playoffs in 6 of his 13 seasons.
His team has only won playoff games in two of those six seasons with a playoff appearance. Why can't Eli win those big games? he only becomes invincible against all odds Eli in the Super Bowl?
I don't see how you can be so confident that if somehow his team gets to the big game, that just because he's Eli Manning he's better prepared to win it than other QB's.
You're allowed to believe it, I just find it convenient and omits a lot of losses where he didn't magically lead his team to a W.
Rodgers is absolutely a disappointment in terms of playoffs success, but I'd still take him in a one-game winner take all vs Eli. And I don't think that's anti-Eli or anti-Giants to feel that way and Brady for me is a no-brainer.
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In comment 13525558 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 13525528 Big Blue '56 said:
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but there isn't a QB playing today (including Brady and Rodgers) that I would take over Eli with the championdhip on the line. None. Period.
Saying you'd take Eli over Brady, Rodgers, or any other QB is really an emotional opinion.
Brady is the correct answer to this question, and his comebacks against Seattle and Atlanta should really remove any doubt.
everyone is entitled to their opinions and I don't mean to make it seem like mine is better but if you pose this question on a national level "one game, championship on the line, team is static other than QB, you can pick any current QB" Eli isn't being picked by many ahead of Brady or Rodgers.
I don't care how many people + it after the post.
I don't care about the opinions of others. They are entitled. Mine is that I would take no one over Eli with a winner-take-all game on the line..It's not emotional on my part albeit certainly subjective to a degree. No more than subjective opinions on the guys you mention, both great and first ballot HOFers..In fact, I have never seen two playoff runs by ANY QB EVER anything close to what Eli helped to pull off. With the exception of Tampa Bay (2008) and POSSIBLY Atlanta (2012), the teams we played in THEIR house were, imo, much better than the Giants were..
Brady, Rodgers, NEVER had to overcome so many playoff teams en route to their SB that were CLEARLY superior to them. Better? Maybe. As superior as the away teams Eli faced? Not even close, imv..
I AM NOT making a case for Eli as better than those two as clearly he isn't, but that's not the point I'm making..
I get it and I respect your opinion, though I disagree with it.
I like Eli, so I'm not an Eli-hating Giants fan, but I also have to consider the fact that while the Giants won the 2 SB's Eli has made it to, his team has only made it to the playoffs in 6 of his 13 seasons.
His team has only won playoff games in two of those six seasons with a playoff appearance. Why can't Eli win those big games? he only becomes invincible against all odds Eli in the Super Bowl?
I don't see how you can be so confident that if somehow his team gets to the big game, that just because he's Eli Manning he's better prepared to win it than other QB's.
You're allowed to believe it, I just find it convenient and omits a lot of losses where he didn't magically lead his team to a W.
Rodgers is absolutely a disappointment in terms of playoffs success, but I'd still take him in a one-game winner take all vs Eli. And I don't think that's anti-Eli or anti-Giants to feel that way and Brady for me is a no-brainer.
I respect your opinion as well..Always have
I can easily argue Eli is equal or better than Ben but Brees is on another tier or 2 above Eli.. You can still make the HoF with the numbers that Brees puts up on the road..
Brees has actually played more games outside of a dome in his career and the stats are 10-20% below the indoor numbers. Eli's outdoor stats are better. And here's the kicker - Eli's only played 16 games in a dome. Brees has played 109 in a dome and 115 outdoors.
FatMan in Charlotte : 1:11 pm : link : reply
this is a bit disingenuous.
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And I know, Eli is 2 years younger, so he's clearly tossing 9,000 yards and 76 touchdowns in each of the next two seasons and evening up the scorecard.
Eli has played three season less than Brees, so while he won't match those numbers, he'll still be close and hasn't had the luxury of playing in a dome.
Like I said above - Brees' stats outside of the dome are completely different:
- Winning % - 13% lower
- Completion % - 5% lower
- QBR - 12 points lower
- In 6 more games outdoors, Brees has thrown for 5100 less yards
- 64 more TD's indoors in 6 fewer games
The differences are quite staggering.
You also have to post Eli's regular season road game stats.....are they lower?
As Giant fans, of course we favor Eli.....one advantage Brees has, I think, he has thrown way more td's inside the 10 yard line than Eli has......the Giants, under Coughlin, tended to run the ball in there, rather than pass....
Is there a stat somewhere that validates this?
It is Brees' lowest rate of completion
In 1st and goal situations, Brees is 97-181 with 49TD's
Eli is 53-128 and 35 TD's. Eli has 14 less TD's on 53 fewer completions.
But the Saints do throw more at the goaline. The Giants have 1.7 x the rushing TD's the Saints do in 1st and goal situations
This is about "eye candy" as much as stats. Brees is smooth, uncannily accurate, he produces "oh's, ahhh's, and wows.
Try to make a list of the ten best songs or films. You can't do it, my ten best would probably have thirty best films...The oblique point..at a certain level you can't differentiate, you can just say "it's on my ten best list" and smile because there's thirty on your ten best.
Over the last 4 years Eli about 17000 yds and 119 TDS.
If he matched those that puts him on the ballpark of Brees doesnt it?
Eli would have 65000 yds and 440 TDs compared to Brees now at 66000 yds and 465 TDs.
That's just using Elis last 4 seasons and saying he matches them. Those seem pretty comparable especially if you attribute a Dome friendly pass environment.
In comment 13525384 Mike in Long Beach said:
And I know, Eli is 2 years younger, so he's clearly tossing 9,000 yards and 76 touchdowns in each of the next two seasons and evening up the scorecard.
Good grief.
What's annoying is there are certainly qualifiers that absolutely legitimately do level that playing field. Brees has played in a dome for almost all of his career and that's inflated him numbers. But to lean on this as something that evens up the score is just so... I mean Jesus.
For instance, look at Mannings numbers in the dome on the road. In 4 games in the dome he was 10 TDs, 2 Ints, and 1100 yards. Imagine those numbers in the dome over an entire season? Granted the New Orleans defense has always sucked. Brees has definitely shined at home against the Giants with 17 TDs over 4 games. Switch fields though. In 3 games at Giants stadium... Brees has only 3 TDs to Mannings 5 TDs. I don't feel like breaking down all the stats, but they are all there on Pro football Reference in the game logs.
I'm saying very different QBs, very different offenses, very different home fields.
The SB wins point is ridiculous. One more SB win? Really?
Brees has been close to a 70% passer for a decade while averaging about 35TDs and fewer INTs than Eli.
hes an exceptional athlete and very tough. He doesn't lack anything that cows his team games.
Gotta remember too fellas, most of us don't watch every snap Brees takes. Brees seems like a solid guy off the field and I take nothing away from his HOF career. But I do think Eli is every bit as good.
Gotta remember too fellas, most of us don't watch every snap Brees takes. Brees seems like a solid guy off the field and I take nothing away from his HOF career. But I do think Eli is every bit as good.
+1 Excellent point.
You say half of them wouldn't be in the league.
That's great stuff right there.
The thing I'm pissed about is how the NYG football organization refused to simply copy the "QB Friendly" systems these other QBs were using.
Also, Eli's career TDs inside the 5 would be a lot higher if TC called his number more often instead of running the ball. Unlike the previously mentioned QBs that feasted on 1-yard TDs, Eli either didn't get the call or unselfishly checked into a run.
hes an exceptional athlete and very tough. He doesn't lack anything that cows his team games.
Kwall, my post was a fair point. Brees isn't the same qb outdoors, then add in the elements in those career defining games.
But here's the huge difference, Eli has played only 16 games indoors compared to Brees playing almost 110! And the other thing that is interesting - if you extrapolate eli's indoor stats to over 100 games, what do you know - he's again very close or better than Brees.
But no, weather can't possibly make a difference......
I'll repeat, with thanks to Uncle Junior's: Brees is a hot house flower. The next game he wins after getting the shit kicked out of him all day like Eli did againt the Niners in the2011 NFC Title game will be the first.
QB debates get a lot tougher when you compare guys like Eli and Brees and the rest. It's all but impossible to say who is truly better. Brees has some of the numbers but Eli has the two rings. Everyone says Brees but in reality it's not that simple. Brees plays in a dome and has probably had the more static offensive system than Eli has played in.
If you swapped Brees for Eli would the Saints really be worse off in the long run? Would the Giants be better off? Would the Giants have two more super bowl titles after 1990? I can't say for sure they would. They'd possibly have the more "prolific" QB but would Brees have delived the two titles in NY? I don't think so. MAybe one yes...but two? You're gonna guarantee that? You can't.
If you go by stats, fine, knock yourself out, but it's not that simple.
Or you could say BRees is clearly better based on his higher TD totals and higher completion %. It's not THAT much higher where we have to turn a blind eye to some of the differences in intangibles. Plus, Brees has started more games.
I'd be happy with either guy but I know Eli won two titles here. Bird in the hand...i'll keep it.
I'm not sure Brees ever played with the type of defense that the Giants had in the playoffs in 07 and 11. There's certainly some arguments in favor of Eli (mainly that Brees' numbers are inflated with 8 games in a dome each year versus Eli playing outside in sometimes cold weather) but the extra ring doesn't really swing much for me here.
Don't tell me Eli doesn't have better career stats if he plays in 100 more dome games. I can't take that take seriously. Just about any QB would put up better stats if they played more dome games.
Meanwhile, Brees' stats outside are very similar to Eli's.
That's why I don't buy the argument that stats tell the whole story and that saying Eli is as good as brees is laughable as a couple people have pointed out, not surprisingly one of them being KWALL.....
People are writing Eli off based on alleged struggles in 2016. I aint buyint it. I think Eli has a great 4th quarter of his career lined up. His team is nasty. Brees has hot garbage other than good WRs and RBs. His team won't win jack shit with that defense.
Eli is not done. He's going to have a big year.
Rodgers is the best pure QB alive. It's not even close.
You typically can't put QBs in a vacuum when judging their game but in the case of Rodgers, you can. He's a transcendent QB talent the likes of which we really haven't seen. He'd play well in a parking lot. He's elevate any franchise. He's Marino with better mobility and on the run ability and he's got a ring. He's a ridiculous QB. No one is in his class.
Eli is not the best QB in the NFL. But people who try to say that Ben R, Brees, Rivers or anyone else around is head and shoulders above him, I just can't take that argument seriously either.
Don't tell me Eli doesn't have better career stats if he plays in 100 more dome games. I can't take that take seriously. Just about any QB would put up better stats if they played more dome games.
I meant to say if you give Eli 60 more TDs.
Meanwhile, Brees' stats outside are very similar to Eli's.
That's why I don't buy the argument that stats tell the whole story and that saying Eli is as good as brees is laughable as a couple people have pointed out, not surprisingly one of them being KWALL.....
Yup fair enough. I knew the splits would show a difference just wasn't sure how much.
Like I said, if you're gonna sit here and tell me that the Giants franchise would be better off with Brees at the helm since 2005 over Eli I will say you're fucking nuts. There's evidence to support the claim that the Giants would NOT be better off with Brees, and it's possible they'd be worse off, if only by a little bit.
Brees is a great QB. So is Eli. We know Eli won in NY and won twice. We also know that Brees is not the same QB outside and doesn't raise his game on the road in the playoffs like Eli has. These are facts. Stats are not the end all be all.
That was the worst quarter of fundamental football I have seen in my 40 yrs as a Giants fan, and it came at the most important time. I for one still will not forgive OBJ until he proves it in January.
Go back and study the tape. That first quarter, playoff Eli showed up trying to put the team on his back. The pass catchers let him down, massively.
Gotta love BBI
...and both should be in the Hall of Fame one day.
And Brees is a greater "great" than Eli.
Is there really any question about this?
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Gotta love BBI
Yea, where people credit one player for a game that has three phases and 11 players in each.
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In comment 13526243 Gmen1982 said:
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Gotta love BBI
Yea, where people credit one player for a game that has three phases and 11 players in each.
One constant about this place is the need for some fans to minimize the contributions of the rest of the team, and other QB's to prop up Eli. I love me some Eli, but some of the posters here are WAY too insecure, and take slight criticism as something to be offended by. I think both Brees and Eli are HOFers, but I think Brees has a better shot at making it on the first ballot than Eli.
Don't tell me Eli doesn't have better career stats if he plays in 100 more dome games. I can't take that take seriously. Just about any QB would put up better stats if they played more dome games.
What did Eli have, like 6 TDs in their dome a couple of years ago? Don't forget, Payton likes to run up the score and Brees loves to cherry-pick those little 1-yard TDs at the goalline. The TC era Giants get a decent lead and start to get run happy and go into clock kill mode.
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In comment 13526265 NYG007 said:
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In comment 13526243 Gmen1982 said:
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Gotta love BBI
Yea, where people credit one player for a game that has three phases and 11 players in each.
One constant about this place is the need for some fans to minimize the contributions of the rest of the team, and other QB's to prop up Eli. I love me some Eli, but some of the posters here are WAY too insecure, and take slight criticism as something to be offended by. I think both Brees and Eli are HOFers, but I think Brees has a better shot at making it on the first ballot than Eli.
People aren't hating. It's the perception that Eli isn't in Brees's league by the media and other fans. Ultimately, this perception will cost Eli at least a first ballot HoF selection.
I love me some Brees. Won me a lot of fantasy games.
First of all, he wouldn't be playing the dome defenses in every game would he? It would be great if NYG got to play the STL, DET, NO, and IND defense every week. MIN? not so much and he really struggled in the 4 games vs MIN.
He played 18 dome games. Not 16. The median game? Not so impressive.
His best and worst dome games were in 2015. Vs the 32nd ranked defense in NO, he threw 6 TDs-0Int. A few weeks later vs MIN he was 15-29 with 1-3.
Take away the best and worst game and we have 16 games for an average season. That average isn't close to Brees. In fact, that 16 game average in the dome games, would be a below average season for Eli.
Just like the quality of the opposing defense which I think would be a bigger factor, wouldn't you?
Just like the quality of the opposing defense which I think would be a bigger factor, wouldn't you?
I agree. I don't think the sample of outdoor games for Eli is big enough to draw a strong conclusion, in part because of the quality of defense issue. When you have a 100 game sample, those things matter less.
I wouldn't go back in time and swap Eli for Brees given the two SB's, but I think Brees has been a better QB than Eli.
4600 yards, 45Tds, 9Int
His season:
61.4% completion. 20 TDs. 16 Ints.
I'd be inclined to say Brees is a better quarterback than Eli; that's no insult to Eli...Brees is better than almost everybody. Technically he's damn near perfect.
But I don't see the need to rank guys linearly. There are things Brees does better than Eli (mechanics, accuracy), but there are things I think Eli does better than Brees, too...I think he's better at reading the defense pre-snap, and I think he's better under pressure.
I think it's been proven that you can do just fine with either guy.
I'd be inclined to say Brees is a better quarterback than Eli; that's no insult to Eli...Brees is better than almost everybody. Technically he's damn near perfect.
But I don't see the need to rank guys linearly. There are things Brees does better than Eli (mechanics, accuracy), but there are things I think Eli does better than Brees, too...I think he's better at reading the defense pre-snap, and I think he's better under pressure.
I think it's been proven that you can do just fine with either guy.
This really is the best take on both QBs. I agree with the whole linear thing, especially in regards to QBs.
If you want to go on stats and even at times, the eye test, Brees has had the more prolific career. To me it goes beyond that stuff when analyzing both QBs. They are very close, stats be damned.
In 18 dome games, its 224/game. This is below his career average on the road.
Not including rookie year. (no dome games in rookie year).
11 seasons:
Eli averaged 247 yards/game in outdoor road games.
His 16 game average on the road:
3950 yards. 25Tds 17Ints
That's better than his play in the 18 dome games. More yards/game. Better TD%, YPA, and INT%. Completion % is higher in the dome.
Numbers in 18 Dome: 61.7% 4.4% TD 3.2% INT 6.87 YPA
Road numbers (minus all dome games): 59% 4.7%TD 3.0 INT% 7.1YPA
Some of the best, such as Rodgers, Brady and Ben do not see any drop.
Nothing was posted on Brees in the article. He's only had a 9 games under 40 but his numbers are very good in these games. 18-7 TD to INT and 100+ rating.
Brees has been good in windy games. He has a 98 QB rating 5 games with 15+ MPH.
You can't knock Brees about cold weather. Combine the cold and windy games you have 15 games, a 100+ QB rating and they are all road games.
He played at Purdue. He has enormous hands. He's proven to be a QB where the weather doesn't really impact his play.
QBs play in cold - ( New Window )
A coach and his system can make our break a player's career.
TC would have made Jimmy Graham either block, or sit the bench.
Both are very good QBs, very similar W/L records. The difference between the Great QBs and the very good QBs is usually the records of the teams. The great QBs seem to find a way to get their teams to the playoffs every season, the very good ones are usually on the cusp of getting in so between 7-10 wins each season, some a little more some less. The bad ones rarely get to the playoffs.
What city did Eli save after Hurricane Sandy? Hoboken.
Case closed.
It's actually at least 9 games a year in a dome because he plays Atlanta on the road every year.
We haven't seen a jump in Eli's numbers in the dome. Dome numbers are not better than his road numbers in outdoor games.
All of you knocking Brees outside of the dome? You have it wrong. His numbers on the road are some of the best ever at the position.
Brees: 16 seasons, 3rd all-time in passing yards, 3rd all-time passing touchdowns.
Eli: 13 seasons, 8th all-time in passing yards, 7th all-time in passing touchdowns.
But "not in his league." LOL. Whatever.
Even doing that the gap between Manning and Bree's in these categories is enormous. 20,000 more yards. 150 more TDs. While throwing the same number of INTs. And playing much better than Eli outdoors and on the road.
Bree's is elite. Eli isn't. He's been very good at times. Never misses a game. But his best never reached Bree's level and he doesn't come close to the consistency Bree's has shown in 10+ years.
We have people trying to knock Bree's as only a dome guy but the numbers tell a different story. He's been excellent away from Domes, on the road, in cold weather and in windy conditions.
Aaron Rodgers is better than Eli
and it is not close.
Even doing that the gap between Manning and Bree's in these categories is enormous. 20,000 more yards. 150 more TDs. While throwing the same number of INTs. And playing much better than Eli outdoors and on the road.
Bree's is elite. Eli isn't. He's been very good at times. Never misses a game. But his best never reached Bree's level and he doesn't come close to the consistency Bree's has shown in 10+ years.
We have people trying to knock Bree's as only a dome guy but the numbers tell a different story. He's been excellent away from Domes, on the road, in cold weather and in windy conditions.
Saying Eli isn't in Brees' league is ridiculous. Brees is a better quarterback. Can't that be enough? Must hyperbole be a part of every discussion?
For over 10 years Bree's has been elite. And he did it iyear after year after year. Consistently a top 5 QB.
Eli hasn't. When was Eli top 5? Maybe once.
That separates the "leagues" between these players.
In the end, I think Eli is too unselfish.