Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Giants 2017 Positional Breakdown: Offensive Line

Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/12/2017 9:23 am
FYI...
Giants 2017 Positional Breakdown: Offensive Line - ( New Window )
I hope the Giants keep 9 offensive linemen  
Jay on the Island : 7/12/2017 9:47 am : link
Assuming the starters are the same 5 as last year then I would like to see Fluker, Jones, Bisnowaty, and Wheeler as the backups. Gettis' value as a backup is limited since he can only play guard. Halapio is intriguing but we haven't see anything from him yet. Jones made a dramatic improvement from year 1 to year 2 and if he continues to improve he might allow the Giants to let Richburg walk IF Richburg doesn't stay healthy and play more like he did two seasons ago.

I am very high on Wheeler and I would hate to lose him on waivers by trying to stash him on the PS. Dunker and Jarron Jones are raw developmental offensive linemen who could be placed on the PS. Dunker is a very exciting player as well as he is extremely athletic but he needs a lot of technique work.
Jay on the Island  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/12/2017 9:55 am : link
Gettis has received some snaps at center. It's why I put Halapio, Gettis, and Jones in the same category. I think only one of the three make the team.
RE: Jay on the Island  
Jay on the Island : 7/12/2017 10:01 am : link
In comment 13526086 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Gettis has received some snaps at center. It's why I put Halapio, Gettis, and Jones in the same category. I think only one of the three make the team.

Yeah I've read that but I don't think he has played center in an actual game, preseason or regular season.
Jay  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/12/2017 10:11 am : link
Gettis played center last preseason. I just checked last year's game preseason game reviews.
Eric  
lugnut : 7/12/2017 10:18 am : link
On Pugh -- "who talks a lot and wants a huge contract..."

Yikes! - Got a problem with him?
Breakdown: Offensive Line  
Jimmy Googs : 7/12/2017 10:22 am : link
or maybe better said...

Breakdown: an offensive Line

Giants will carry 8 OL's this year like last year....  
SGMen : 7/12/2017 10:44 am : link
We'll start the season with the same starting 5 as 2016; lots of continuity; expect coach Solari's training to take root; and, also for maturity to set in for young guys like Flowers, Hart, Jones, and practice squaders Wheeler, Desmer, Halapio (2 of 3 I'm guessing).

Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Hart
(Bisnotway-Jones-Jones-Fluker-Fluker) are the backups.
Gettis is guy 54, tough cut due to versatility, a shame but due to 3 QB's he takes the hit.

There was an article from yesterday that said the Giants OL ranked #2 pass blocking; #24 run blocking; but, I took this as bullcrap cause Eli fires so fast. Eli clearly had some happy feet last year and didn't stand in the pocket as long as he could have at times likely due to fear of getting hammered by a few 300+ pound guys.

If Flowers and Hart become "average NFL starters, middle of the pack" even we'll be fine. If they are slightly better than average we'll be very good due to our excellent skill position players. I think Ellison, Engram, Adams, LaCosse give us a big boost in the blocking department so overall, we may ear a truer #2 pass blocking ranking and hopefully work our way from #24 to say #12 run blocking? That would be truly awesome.
RE: Eric  
Klaatu : 7/12/2017 10:45 am : link
In comment 13526119 lugnut said:
Quote:
On Pugh -- "who talks a lot and wants a huge contract..."

Yikes! - Got a problem with him?


"Justin, thanks for pissing off Muhammed Wilkerson."
- Eli Manning.
RE: Eric  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/12/2017 11:06 am : link
In comment 13526119 lugnut said:
Quote:
On Pugh -- "who talks a lot and wants a huge contract..."

Yikes! - Got a problem with him?


I think Justin Pugh is very high on Justin Pugh. But I want to see a player who plays a full 16 games and helps to elevate the line. He's not at Geoff Schwartz-level mouthiness, but I'd prefer his play do the talking.
RE: RE: Eric  
SGMen : 7/12/2017 11:11 am : link
In comment 13526182 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 13526119 lugnut said:


Quote:


On Pugh -- "who talks a lot and wants a huge contract..."

Yikes! - Got a problem with him?



I think Justin Pugh is very high on Justin Pugh. But I want to see a player who plays a full 16 games and helps to elevate the line. He's not at Geoff Schwartz-level mouthiness, but I'd prefer his play do the talking.
Truth. I'd love a season where Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Jerry and Hart play at least 15 games each (guys get dinged in game and miss a game, happens), 16 preferably. Continuity is key for any OL.
No reason to think  
AnnapolisMike : 7/12/2017 11:13 am : link
The OL will not be better. The line is young with a good coach. Health is the key.
Although you can never predict injuries across the league....  
njm : 7/12/2017 11:16 am : link
I don't see losing Wheeler off (or on the way to) the practice squad unless some team gets decimated.
Wheeler  
lugnut : 7/12/2017 11:35 am : link
I'd want to secure him more than most people here would, I think. He was highly (or at least mid-ly) regarded not long ago until he seemed to go a little nuts, and at 21-22 y.o. or whatever has gotta offer more upside than the likes of Gettis, Halapaio, etc.
RE: RE: Eric  
Victor in CT : 7/12/2017 11:53 am : link
In comment 13526182 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 13526119 lugnut said:


Quote:


On Pugh -- "who talks a lot and wants a huge contract..."

Yikes! - Got a problem with him?



I think Justin Pugh is very high on Justin Pugh. But I want to see a player who plays a full 16 games and helps to elevate the line. He's not at Geoff Schwartz-level mouthiness, but I'd prefer his play do the talking.


Amen brother
also, maybe Solari isn't necessarily the huge upgrade that many here  
Victor in CT : 7/12/2017 11:55 am : link
claim he is over Flaherty? Maybe Flaherty didn't get stupid, but the FO brought in inferior players compared to the old guard, despite having expended premium picks on the OL 3 yrs in a row?
RE: Wheeler  
Klaatu : 7/12/2017 12:03 pm : link
In comment 13526244 lugnut said:
Quote:
I'd want to secure him more than most people here would, I think. He was highly (or at least mid-ly) regarded not long ago until he seemed to go a little nuts, and at 21-22 y.o. or whatever has gotta offer more upside than the likes of Gettis, Halapaio, etc.


It's not just his run-in with the law. His injury history is pretty extensive, too. I think he needs a year on the PS, and I doubt another team would poach him since they'd have to activate him if they did.

Same goes for Dunker.
Reese is taking two big gambles.  
Klaatu : 7/12/2017 12:09 pm : link
First, he's gambling that Flowers and Hart will both show a good bit of improvement this year, and at least become serviceable if not spectacular.

Second, he's gambling on the moves he's made on the periphery of the offense compensating for another year of sub-par O-Line play, if Flowers and Hart fail to develop.

Only time will tell if his bets pay off.
Is Gettis still eligible  
TJ : 7/12/2017 12:10 pm : link
for practice squad?
RE: Wheeler  
Jay on the Island : 7/12/2017 12:47 pm : link
In comment 13526244 lugnut said:
Quote:
I'd want to secure him more than most people here would, I think. He was highly (or at least mid-ly) regarded not long ago until he seemed to go a little nuts, and at 21-22 y.o. or whatever has gotta offer more upside than the likes of Gettis, Halapaio, etc.

I am also very high on Wheeler. I hope he makes the 53 man roster because I don't think he will clear waivers unless he is injured. Dunker and Jones are likely PS bound and I would rather go with Wheeler and his upside over Gettis who is JAG.
RE: Jay  
Jay on the Island : 7/12/2017 12:48 pm : link
In comment 13526110 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Gettis played center last preseason. I just checked last year's game preseason game reviews.

Sorry Eric I missed that.
RE: Jay on the Island  
AcidTest : 7/12/2017 12:51 pm : link
In comment 13526086 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Gettis has received some snaps at center. It's why I put Halapio, Gettis, and Jones in the same category. I think only one of the three make the team.


Great write-up as usual. I think it will be Jones between the three. I'm OK carrying eight OL, nine if Wheeler shows anything during preseason.
I think Wheeler is already over rated by some of you  
ZogZerg : 7/12/2017 1:06 pm : link
Unless he really impresses during camp, he's looking at the PS.
Count me among the votes for eight OL on the roster...  
Big Blue Blogger : 7/12/2017 1:10 pm : link
...and ~three on the practice squad. Even with eight, you might have a healthy scratch some weeks: dressing seven, and sitting the eighth. And I'm not losing sleep over exposing Chad Wheeler to the waiver wire. I can remember similar hand-wringing over the likes of Xavier Grimble and Kelcy Quarles.

Fans who sh!t on Reese for wishful OL thinking might want to read up on Ian Allen and Tam Hopkins, who entered camp as the right side of the Giants' line in 2003.

OK  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/12/2017 1:27 pm : link
we just re-recorded the first podcast, focusing on the offense. Should be up soon (probably tomorrow morning).
About Pugh  
grizz299 : 7/12/2017 2:01 pm : link
Never felt comfortable with the man... A premonition?? I think his career is going to be short and likely gone to concussions. He doesn't seem big, overdeveloped on a not gigantic frame..
A nonsense thought and likely wrong..at least I hope so.
The reason the OL ranks high on pass protection...  
Dan in the Springs : 7/12/2017 2:03 pm : link
1. Eli's immobility, and
2. Eli's pocket presence.

Eli feels pressure well. He also knows he can't scramble. As a result, he rarely tries to create anything. He simply throws the ball, at times trying to force a play. This results in one of the quickest release times in the league and a higher number of INT's than your average QB.

QBs with poor pocket presence take a lot of sacks.

Players who are mobile will often get positive results when they scramble, but this counts as a pressure and brings the overall grade of their OL down.
Eric: Spot On Analysis Of This Key Unit  
Trainmaster : 7/12/2017 7:04 pm : link
Sounds like the Giants "plan" is mostly based on "hope" that Flowers and Hart will improve.

Minor typo / missing word under TRAINING CAMP ...

Quote:
The real issue is that despite the significant allocation of resources, Reese has failed to [put] together a viable unit since David Diehl, Richie Seubert, Shaun OíHara, Chris Snee, and Kareem McKenzie retired.
Thanks Eric  
Tark10 : 7/12/2017 7:23 pm : link
Nice review of the O-Line. I still consider this the junkyard of this team. A 36 year old QB with 2 SB rings deserves far better.
RE: Thanks Eric  
SGMen : 7/12/2017 8:59 pm : link
In comment 13526743 Tark10 said:
Quote:
Nice review of the O-Line. I still consider this the junkyard of this team. A 36 year old QB with 2 SB rings deserves far better.
In coach Mike Solari, I TRUST. He had to have seen progress; worked progress; and Reese had to trust there will be development from Flowers & Hart; that W. Richburg went to Bentley's camp so he could come back at his best; and J. Jerry had his best year last year, steady.

There will be continuity this year and the young players will improve. We have blocking TE's and possibly a blocking FB. Eli will feel more at ease and have the best season of his CAREER this year. Ooh Rah, OL!
Overly Simplistic false hood?  
WillVAB : 7/12/2017 11:17 pm : link
Quote:
It is the opinion of many that the only thing that can hold back the Giants in 2017 is the offensive line. While this is clearly an overly-simplistic falsehood, the line has been a team weak spot for years. If a team canít block up front, it is very difficult to consistently move the football.


The defense is essentially the same as '16. The offense received upgrades at WR (Marshall, '15 version or not) and two TE spots. Simplistic or not, the OL is the Achilles heel of this team right now until proven otherwise and everyone knows it.
Trainmaster  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/13/2017 12:54 am : link
Thanks for catching that typo!
Besides staying healthy  
old man : 7/13/2017 11:31 pm : link
It'd be really nice if Flowers improved, and, if at least one of Fluker, Jones, Bis or Wheeler became very much a surprise major contributor on the OL.
Despite carrying eight OL last year (and I think the year before)...  
Milton : 7/14/2017 3:21 am : link
The Giants have historically carried nine and even ten OL on the 53 man roster in years past. I think it's only the last two years that they've carried as few as eight. It's not as if they think eight is the ideal number, it's been a reflection of the talent. So if Wheeler impresses, no reason not to carry him. They can much more easily get away with carrying five WRs than they can carrying eight OL.
RE: Despite carrying eight OL last year (and I think the year before)...  
SGMen : 7/14/2017 7:38 am : link
In comment 13527927 Milton said:
Quote:
The Giants have historically carried nine and even ten OL on the 53 man roster in years past. I think it's only the last two years that they've carried as few as eight. It's not as if they think eight is the ideal number, it's been a reflection of the talent. So if Wheeler impresses, no reason not to carry him. They can much more easily get away with carrying five WRs than they can carrying eight OL.
Milton, you are quite right, it has been a total reflection of the talent but also a reflection of our need for special teamer types.

If we carry 3 QB's, and we will, we will carry 8 OL; and, we may carry as many as 3 Practice Squad OL's such as Wheeler, Desmer and Halapio.

My OL:

Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Hart
(Bisnotaway)-(B. Jones)- (Fluker)

Now, if we went only 3 TE's and put M. Lacosse on the PS, we may carry A. Gettis as well. Hard to say and camp injuries may impact final 53 as well.
Here's how I look at it...  
Milton : 7/14/2017 8:24 pm : link
To make the 53 man roster Wheeler needs to have a healthy camp, behave maturely, and perform at a level consistent with how he played at USC. This is why he was given the $20K signing bonus. As I understand it, Rudolph was the only other undrafted addition to receive bonus money ($10K). I could look it up right now to verify, but I'm lazy.

Taverres King is never gonna be a starter for the Giants via anything but injuries. Same for Will Tye at TE. But if Chad Wheeler were to become a starting quality left tackle in the league, you wouldn't hear any scouts saying "Wow, I never saw that coming!" Instead I suspect what you'd hear is "Good for him, he overcame his early history of injuries and off-field immaturity."

So if Wheeler were to make the 53 man roster, I would consider that a good sign. It would mean the Giants were impressed enough that they didn't want to risk losing him via the practice squad. I know that could be said of anyone, but it's easier to project when it's a prospect whose talent isn't in question.
RE: Here's how I look at it...  
SGMen : 7/15/2017 12:51 pm : link
In comment 13528654 Milton said:
Quote:
To make the 53 man roster Wheeler needs to have a healthy camp, behave maturely, and perform at a level consistent with how he played at USC. This is why he was given the $20K signing bonus. As I understand it, Rudolph was the only other undrafted addition to receive bonus money ($10K). I could look it up right now to verify, but I'm lazy.

Taverres King is never gonna be a starter for the Giants via anything but injuries. Same for Will Tye at TE. But if Chad Wheeler were to become a starting quality left tackle in the league, you wouldn't hear any scouts saying "Wow, I never saw that coming!" Instead I suspect what you'd hear is "Good for him, he overcame his early history of injuries and off-field immaturity."

So if Wheeler were to make the 53 man roster, I would consider that a good sign. It would mean the Giants were impressed enough that they didn't want to risk losing him via the practice squad. I know that could be said of anyone, but it's easier to project when it's a prospect whose talent isn't in question.
Agree, if Wheeler makes it on TALENT and our desire is not to lose him from the PS, well, that bodes well for the young man and the team. There have been UDFA's who have done well in this league, with 1980's Redskin OT Joe Jacoby coming to mind first and foremost.
Back to the Corner