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Great Looking Team - But 2 Big Errors?

BigBlueWhale : 7/12/2017 9:48 am
Looks like 1 on each side of the ball.

Offense -

I look at our depth chart and I still see Bobbie Hart at RT. How did we let this happen again? The only competition looks to be Fluker who isn't an NFL OT, rookie 6th round pick Bisnowaty and UDFA's Wheeler, Dunker and Jones? Hart lacked play strength last year and was slow-footed in pass pro. I just really do not want to see this guy as our starting RT again. Are we praying Biz is the real deal or that Hart goes from liability to + player?

Defense -

Not getting a 3rd pass rusher (again). I love Apple but imagine having Leonard Floyd off the edge as that 3rd and long backbreaker? He put up 7 sacks, 1 FF and 2 PD's in 12 games and was that gangly speed rusher as advertised. We added Devin Taylor, Avery Moss and Evan Schwan - perhaps 1 will step up. Cosell really likes Moss and Spags said he reminds him of Hugh Douglas. Schwan reportedly showed an explosive 1st step at OTA's and mini-camp.
As of right now, we don't have a particularly scary 3rd and long DL outside Vernon and JPP.
No 3rd pass rusher??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/12/2017 9:52 am : link
We have JPP and Vernon, and the Okawara looked pretty darn good last year. Not to mention we have a few other DE's that have potential.

As for the RT situation - I'm not sure if you're assuming great tackles just grow in the Meadowlands swamps and are readily available. Every team has positions that are going to be questions marks - that doesn't make them "errors", just the reality of the NFL.
Only 1/2 Kidding  
Trainmaster : 7/12/2017 9:54 am : link
Collins is our 3rd best pass rusher.

...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/12/2017 9:56 am : link
Fluker has been getting NO snaps at right tackle, only right guard.

Right now, it's Hart's job to lose although Bisnowaty could press him.
I feel I should make one point here  
MadPlaid : 7/12/2017 9:59 am : link
Floyd was drafted before we had a chance to take him, so there is no point in worrying about him or what he could have done for the Giants.
In regards to Hart  
gmen9892 : 7/12/2017 9:59 am : link
You have to take into account that the kid is STILL only 22. He was essentially a rookie last year that was forced into duty. Lets give him 1 more year with a full training camp as a starter before we give up on the dude.

I, for one, am also a big fan of Bisnowatty. I think he is going to push Hart and we are going to get, at worst, average play out of the RT position this year. Best man will win. Last year, there was no real competition for the RT spot.
If the Giants went with Floyd over Apple  
Jay on the Island : 7/12/2017 10:04 am : link
We would be going into the season with Valentino Blake, Michael Hunter, Mykelle Thompson, and Donte Deayon battling for the nickel spot. As I am sure you know the nickel CB is a de facto starter so having an such an unproven player there could kill our season. Also you have to take into consideration the fact that DRC has been nicked up every season he has been a Giant. If he were to miss 4-5 games.
I'm guessing I'm among the very few  
Beezer : 7/12/2017 10:06 am : link
who are pretty excited that it's Bobby Hart's job to lose. He started 13 games last year, basically tossed into the fire. That was a hell of a lot of on-the-job training.

More upside ... Florida State kid who started at RT his junior and senior seasons in college, so it's not as if he's out of position. AND (some think it's better to plug perceived holes, but I believe) the fact that this line might be intact from last season ... well, that continuity could end up being a pretty big deal for improvement, as a unit.
Jay..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/12/2017 10:07 am : link
Exactly - which it is really difficult to breakdown a roster and say there are no questions. If we don't draft Beckham and get a stud LB or OL, then we'd be complaining last year of having to rely on Cruz and Shep as the targets, to go with crap at TE.

That makes exercises like this futile.
I don't think they're  
pjcas18 : 7/12/2017 10:09 am : link
errors like you say, but absolutely if you had to list the areas of concern on the Giants they'd be top 2 for me.

I just don't think you can fill every hole in an off-season through FA acquisitions, some of it has to come from organic development.

So Owkara, Odi (who knows where he's at), Moss, etc. need to contribute at DE.

And on the OL, Flowers is the key, even more than RT, Flowers needs to show a big improvement from last year.

Going into the season, knowing those are the two biggest areas of concern, I'm a lot more confident than I've been in a long time.
RE: In regards to Hart  
x meadowlander : 7/12/2017 10:11 am : link
In comment 13526092 gmen9892 said:
Quote:
You have to take into account that the kid is STILL only 22. He was essentially a rookie last year that was forced into duty. Lets give him 1 more year with a full training camp as a starter before we give up on the dude.

I, for one, am also a big fan of Bisnowatty. I think he is going to push Hart and we are going to get, at worst, average play out of the RT position this year. Best man will win. Last year, there was no real competition for the RT spot.
Flowers is 23, Hart is 22.

For all the hand-wringing, the Giants could potentially be set at Tackle for a decade.

Mr. Preseason Optomist says it is so. We will see continued improvement from both players. And yes - they ARE our starters. No rookie is bumping Hart, unless he completely self-destructs.
Reading about how hard Flowers and Hart  
Beezer : 7/12/2017 10:15 am : link
are working, in the weight room, on techniques and in the classroom, how can Giants fans NOT be at least excited to see how things shake out?

I'm a big fan of these guys and the way they're going at it. They're very young, so for them to have that work ethic is very promising.
If you had said weaknesses rather than errors I could buy it  
njm : 7/12/2017 10:33 am : link
.
RE: RE: In regards to Hart  
KeoweeFan : 7/12/2017 10:39 am : link
In comment 13526111 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
In comment 13526092 gmen9892 said:


Quote:


You have to take into account that the kid is STILL only 22. He was essentially a rookie last year that was forced into duty. Lets give him 1 more year with a full training camp as a starter before we give up on the dude.

I, for one, am also a big fan of Bisnowatty. I think he is going to push Hart and we are going to get, at worst, average play out of the RT position this year. Best man will win. Last year, there was no real competition for the RT spot.

Flowers is 23, Hart is 22.

For all the hand-wringing, the Giants could potentially be set at Tackle for a decade.

Mr. Preseason Optomist says it is so. We will see continued improvement from both players. And yes - they ARE our starters. No rookie is bumping Hart, unless he completely self-destructs.


This is the time of the year for unbridled optimism and rose colored glasses.
My recollection is in BOTH stints with the Giants Spagnola's defense took two years to gel (NYG defense was last in the NFL in his first year as DC.)
So not only are Flowers and Hart youngsters, but Solari is only entering his 2nd year.
Hopefully the pieces will fall in place in year 2.
Not having Floyd isn't an 'error'...  
Torrag : 7/12/2017 10:47 am : link
...he wasn't available when we drafted.
I'm totally optimistic about both Flowers and Hart  
SGMen : 7/12/2017 10:50 am : link
Young. Learning. Hard working off-seasons. Year #2 under Solari. Pride on the line due to bad media relays about their play. These two will give their very best which may just be "NFL average OT's" or maybe slightly better than that. August 11 and the first pre-season game can't come fast enough.

My gut tells me Fluker is the top backup RG and likely RT to start the season. Bisnotway may be the 3rd RT and backup LT if the Giants think his college experience is enough for him to hold the fort while Flowers heals. Or Pugh slides to LT and B. Jones moves to LG. Hard to say until the pads go on and we see what we have.

D. Taylor can rush as can R. Okwara. I think we have more rush this year than last year.
OL is def a weakness. It would be nice to have another  
Keith : 7/12/2017 10:50 am : link
pass rusher, but I certainly don't think our DL is a weakness. It's probably our biggest strength. I guess you can argue that the depth is a weakness, but that may not matter.

All that being said, every single team has weaknesses all over the field. I would be willing to bet that the majority of teams have more question marks than we do. We are about as stacked as we can be everywhere on the field except OL.
Blocking Tight Ends  
NYG007 : 7/12/2017 11:07 am : link
We now have 2 of them, instead of zero, will drastically improve our flaws on the line. Having a poor LT & RT plus NO contribution in the least from a TE who could chip, let alone block, made us terrible on the line.

I like what I am hearing about Biz, Hart & Flowers work ethic. Tight ends will help some of the flaws
Giants will have a Detroit starter as #3 DE. How bad can this be?  
Ivan15 : 7/12/2017 11:09 am : link
Everyone has depth issues. The cap and free agency have caused that. Look at Dallas o-line last year compared to this year. Dallas may skate through it, but maybe not.

I look at Taylor signing as about the same as Ayers. That worked out okay for everyone. And the Giants have some young prospects who can work in to the lineup if Taylor doesn't produce enough. The catch is they will probably have to keep 5 DEs on the 53 in order to develop one prospect.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/12/2017 11:12 am : link
Can anyone name an NFL team without a weakness somewhere?

(I'll save you the time, there aren't any)

And I think people sort of lose sight of this when they talk about the Giants. I think a lot of people get older and really only pay close attention to NYG (which is fine) and don't really know much about the other teams in the league which leads them to make certain assumptions that aren't necessarily accurate.

Of course I'd like if our OL was 100% solidified without question marks and we had a bevy of pass rushers to send in waves but you can't have unlimited depth everywhere in this league and I'd say the vast majority of teams in this league would LOVE to have the pair of DE's we have.

It's fine to acknowledge perceived weaknesses - but it's important to understand context and be realistic.
I'd rather Apple  
UConn4523 : 7/12/2017 11:22 am : link
especially if he turns into an above average CB. Another pass rusher is great but teams can gameplan around it and carve up anweak secondary, which we experienced in the playoffs last year when DRC went down.
Enough of the Leonard Floyd shit. I was thrilled that the Bears  
Victor in CT : 7/12/2017 11:24 am : link
saved the Giants from taking him. He's the tweener that never works in this scheme. I'll take Apple any day.
and I like Fluker at RG. Heprovides some needed beef inside.  
Victor in CT : 7/12/2017 11:25 am : link
I think Hart could be okay with a physically strong, reliable RG next to him. And Bisnowaty looks like he can press for playing time as the season progresses.
.  
arcarsenal : 7/12/2017 11:27 am : link
If NYG had taken Floyd, we'd be saying we don't have enough DB depth now and are totally screwed if either DRC or Jenkins were to go down.

Can't have everything.
I can't disagree  
giantgiantfan : 7/12/2017 11:30 am : link
but they really couldn't address the holes you listed with what was available versus what they had to spend versus other needs. In the draft they got 3 needs: TE, DT, and QB.

If they hadn't gotten a TE or DT then those would be on your list. In FA, they grabbed a blocking TE and WR. If not for grabbing those, then those would be on your list.

You can argue they should've gotten an OL or pass rusher in the 3rd round, but the changes of a 3rd rounder stepping up in those departments is small. I am less concerned then you on the pass rushing department because there is a good chance that between Bromley, Moss, Okwara, and Kennard someone will step up. The fact is Spags has a great defense to work with, its up to him to scheme up pressure now.

On the OL, welcome to choir, we are always looking for new preachers.
RE: Giants will have a Detroit starter as #3 DE. How bad can this be?  
SGMen : 7/12/2017 11:31 am : link
In comment 13526187 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
Everyone has depth issues. The cap and free agency have caused that. Look at Dallas o-line last year compared to this year. Dallas may skate through it, but maybe not.

I look at Taylor signing as about the same as Ayers. That worked out okay for everyone. And the Giants have some young prospects who can work in to the lineup if Taylor doesn't produce enough. The catch is they will probably have to keep 5 DEs on the 53 in order to develop one prospect.
Dallas lost RT Doug Free, a savvy veteran who exceled when healthy. That loss hurt the most. Dallas also lost a bunch of DB's and are young on defense. They have the suspensions coming as well to DL Lawrence, DB Carroll and a SLB who likes toting a gun and running women over. All teams have problems indeed.
RE: Reading about how hard Flowers and Hart  
Alan in Toledo : 7/12/2017 11:31 am : link
In comment 13526114 Beezer said:
Quote:
are working, in the weight room, on techniques and in the classroom, how can Giants fans NOT be at least excited to see how things shake out?

I'm a big fan of these guys and the way they're going at it. They're very young, so for them to have that work ethic is very promising.


+1
To be honest  
NNJ Tom : 7/12/2017 11:38 am : link
I'm more concerned about who the F our kicker is going to be than RT.

Who the F is Aldrick Rosas?


Do you really..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/12/2017 11:40 am : link
know any kicker? I mean you can plug in just about anyone these days and get 80% or higher on FG's. One of the last things I ever worry about anymore is the PK.
The OL will be a strength  
MasherJints : 7/12/2017 11:41 am : link
I want the answer to one question from all the nay sayers and pessimists on this site. When was hard work, dedication and focus not returned positive results? We are talking about 2, 22 year old players entering their 3rd year in the NFL. Two young men who forewent their off season break to improve their strength, technique, agility at the team facility. Do you think no one was paying attention? That even though no direct coaching was allowed, that these young men weren't given an outline to follow.

Optimism within the Giants organization does not usually manifest from wishful thinking. I believe that they are fully aware of individual development of these young men. Also I expect that the depth on the OL has been greatly improved. Bisnowaty and Wheeler are 4 year starters from major college programs, Pitt and USC respectively. Fluker was an early first round selection who played well his first season at tackle, then moved to guard. I think that he will surprise many on this forum. Jerry has been training at Bentley OL training facility in Arizona.

OL coach Solari has been successful developing a good to outstanding run blocking OL in the past, is it the belief that he has somehow forgotten how to coach? This is the 2nd year of his tenure, I expect that the OL may take a great leap forward. If all the hard work pays dividends and this outcome manifests, the Giants O will become a juggernaut and Eli Manning will have his greatest season to date.

I suggest that the many doubters take solace in the effort being employed by many front line members of this unit. Since hard work usually pays off, at least reserve the criticism until they put the pads on and test their meddle against one of the best DL in the NFL. If the old adage iron sharpens iron is true, the Giants practice field may prove to be a blacksmiths forge tempering steel.
RE: .  
Keith : 7/12/2017 11:43 am : link
In comment 13526197 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Can anyone name an NFL team without a weakness somewhere?

(I'll save you the time, there aren't any)

And I think people sort of lose sight of this when they talk about the Giants. I think a lot of people get older and really only pay close attention to NYG (which is fine) and don't really know much about the other teams in the league which leads them to make certain assumptions that aren't necessarily accurate.

Of course I'd like if our OL was 100% solidified without question marks and we had a bevy of pass rushers to send in waves but you can't have unlimited depth everywhere in this league and I'd say the vast majority of teams in this league would LOVE to have the pair of DE's we have.

It's fine to acknowledge perceived weaknesses - but it's important to understand context and be realistic.


Nailed it.
Don't use hyperbole..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/12/2017 11:47 am : link
Quote:
When was hard work, dedication and focus not returned positive results?


The vast majority of players that don't make it in the NFL have the heart and work ethic to make it, but lack the talent.

It is very trite to make it sound like all you need to do was work hard and you'll be a successful athlete at the top level. Every year, you'll find LB's and linemen who tear it up in college, but often are bottom of the roster guys or cut. Ben Boulware was a maniac on the field for Clemson and right now he has a slim chance of sticking as a UDFA with Carolina. His story isn't unique. Meanwhile, you'll find players with not a great work ethic who excel because of talent. LT avoided the weight room like the plague. Some guys have non-football interests.

Hard work, dedication and focus exist in nearly everyone of the players vying for roster spots, so you have a shitload of athletes cut every year who exhibit those traits and are unemployed in football terms.
RE: The OL will be a strength  
Sec 103 : 7/12/2017 11:50 am : link
In comment 13526249 MasherJints said:
Quote:
I want the answer to one question from all the nay sayers and pessimists on this site. When was hard work, dedication and focus not returned positive results? We are talking about 2, 22 year old players entering their 3rd year in the NFL. Two young men who forewent their off season break to improve their strength, technique, agility at the team facility. Do you think no one was paying attention? That even though no direct coaching was allowed, that these young men weren't given an outline to follow.

Optimism within the Giants organization does not usually manifest from wishful thinking. I believe that they are fully aware of individual development of these young men. Also I expect that the depth on the OL has been greatly improved. Bisnowaty and Wheeler are 4 year starters from major college programs, Pitt and USC respectively. Fluker was an early first round selection who played well his first season at tackle, then moved to guard. I think that he will surprise many on this forum. Jerry has been training at Bentley OL training facility in Arizona.

OL coach Solari has been successful developing a good to outstanding run blocking OL in the past, is it the belief that he has somehow forgotten how to coach? This is the 2nd year of his tenure, I expect that the OL may take a great leap forward. If all the hard work pays dividends and this outcome manifests, the Giants O will become a juggernaut and Eli Manning will have his greatest season to date.

I suggest that the many doubters take solace in the effort being employed by many front line members of this unit. Since hard work usually pays off, at least reserve the criticism until they put the pads on and test their meddle against one of the best DL in the NFL. If the old adage iron sharpens iron is true, the Giants practice field may prove to be a blacksmiths forge tempering steel.


Very well put sir!
Name the last player who forewent their time off to get better  
MasherJints : 7/12/2017 12:12 pm : link
I don't recall anyone, much less being so young. You are right there are many athletes that despite their effort and focus are limited by their natural athleticism. We are talking about 2 young men who started at big time programs. Hart was a starting tackle on a national championship team with Florida State. Flowers is a powerful young tackle with technique limitations. Taking boxing training should help greatly improve an area of concern of his quickness of his feet in getting set, his hand placement and punch.

We are not speaking of limited athleticism, but undeveloped technique. The premise you offered is a legitimate one but, I think this training camp and preseason will be a revelation to many. If what I suspect is true and the OL takes a leap forward, the Giants Offense will be hard to defend.

The Giants DL will be a severe challenge to all opponents this season. Imagine how this level of competition will challenge and improve the OL performance through continuous practice. My only concern is injury from the ferocity which may be exhibited by the heighten level of competition.
Regarding Apple, he was a good choice. He had a good rookie season  
Ira : 7/12/2017 12:14 pm : link
despite having only 2 years of college play. Regarding the ol, I wanted to see them sign or draft a starting lt and move Flowers to the right. But I'm encouraged by what we're hearing about the work these two young players put in this off season, so I'll join the group that wants to wait and see.
Flowers, Fluker,  
Reale01 : 7/12/2017 12:35 pm : link
These are huge, strong, athletic, and very mean players. They are also young. Our OL has potentially become a lot nastier with addition players like Flowers, Fluker, Bisnow. If technique catches up we will be fine.
RE: Only 1/2 Kidding  
Big Blue Blogger : 7/12/2017 1:32 pm : link
Trainmaster said:
Quote:
Collins is our 3rd best pass rusher.
It won't be a surprise at all if Landon Collins winds up third on the team in sacks. In fact, if I had to make a prediction today, he might be my pick.
What do you mean by this??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/12/2017 4:30 pm : link
Quote:
Name the last player who forewent their time off to get better
MasherJints : 12:12 pm : link : reply
I don't recall anyone, much less being so young.


The list would be in the hundreds and more. Every professional athlete I've known works out religiously and strives to be the best they can be in their sport.

Look at the stories of camp invitees and UDFA's - they put the bodies on the line, often to the detriment of getting injured, just in training camp. Guys use the offseason to attend camps, to work on specific skills, etc.

I love hearing stories that extra work is being put in, but let's not make this seem like the exception instead of the norm.
RE: What do you mean by this??  
SGMen : 7/12/2017 8:51 pm : link
In comment 13526594 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


Name the last player who forewent their time off to get better
MasherJints : 12:12 pm : link : reply
I don't recall anyone, much less being so young.



The list would be in the hundreds and more. Every professional athlete I've known works out religiously and strives to be the best they can be in their sport.

Look at the stories of camp invitees and UDFA's - they put the bodies on the line, often to the detriment of getting injured, just in training camp. Guys use the offseason to attend camps, to work on specific skills, etc.

I love hearing stories that extra work is being put in, but let's not make this seem like the exception instead of the norm.
I concur. It was clear that Erek Flowers & Will Tye maybe didn't give their best last off-season and it showed on the field. I don't really recall hearing the whispers so much last year but my memory isn't the best anyway but it sort of came out this year.

NFL careers are short and all draft picks, UDFA's and "on the bubble" veterans are certainly going to work 110%. Established bets, 109%. LOL
RE: What do you mean by this??  
LauderdaleMatty : 7/12/2017 11:33 pm : link
In comment 13526594 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


Name the last player who forewent their time off to get better
MasherJints : 12:12 pm : link : reply
I don't recall anyone, much less being so young.



The list would be in the hundreds and more. Every professional athlete I've known works out religiously and strives to be the best they can be in their sport.

Look at the stories of camp invitees and UDFA's - they put the bodies on the line, often to the detriment of getting injured, just in training camp. Guys use the offseason to attend camps, to work on specific skills, etc.

I love hearing stories that extra work is being put in, but let's not make this seem like the exception instead of the norm.


Sorry. Know plenty of pros wondont out the same effort into it.

Know personally of one UFC fighter who luckily hasn't got popped or smoking pot but was seen smoking all the time. He also has missed weight numerous times. Not a small timer but a relatively know name and a young guy who could have made a run.

You really think all players put forth the same effort. Would that include Will Hill? Damontre Moore. Marvin Austin?
No..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/13/2017 7:53 am : link
I don't think all players put forth the same effort.

That's different than saying two guys putting in a lot of effort are some sort of anomaly.

The professional athletes who take their careers seriously understand that maintaining their ability level, health and fitness is paramount to success. The vast majority of them work out at team facilities, have personal trainers on the side and a lot even have dieticians and other "health guides".

Very rarely are you going to find a guy just camping out in his room smoking pot and eating cheeseburgers while playing the Xbox anytime they aren't on the field.

And don't necessarily equate pot smoking with laziness. Keith Hamilton was a notorious pot smoker and was one of the hardest working Giants ever. Practically the entire NBA smokes pot and a lot of guys are workout maniacs.

The bottom line is two players working hard should be noted - but not as being some sort of outlier or extraordinary event.
I don't think we make the playoffs,  
Doomster : 7/13/2017 3:17 pm : link
if we drafted Floyd instead of Apple......that means DRC stays at corner and you have crap for the corner slot.....teams would have exploited that all day.....

The few games I watched Floyd, he really didn't show much....he did have two sacks I saw, where the qb was running away from someone right into Floyd.....
'The OL will be a strength'...  
Torrag : 7/13/2017 3:26 pm : link
Highly unlikely. If we can get moderate improvement that results in a functional line that is league average I'd be satisfied. I'm dubious even that will happen.
The O-line will play better in 2017  
Jimmy Googs : 7/13/2017 6:43 pm : link
simply because they can't get worse.

Unfortunately, that's all I got...
RE: 'The OL will be a strength'...  
SGMen : 7/13/2017 9:42 pm : link
In comment 13527457 Torrag said:
Quote:
Highly unlikely. If we can get moderate improvement that results in a functional line that is league average I'd be satisfied. I'm dubious even that will happen.
The problem we had last year is that BOTH OT's sucked AND we had no TE's that could truly help them. Add to that Pugh's 5 game injury; B. Jones injury; Richburg's poor play - especially early; and, well, you had a formula for disaster.

Young guys like Flowers 23 and Hart 22 (think about how young, there are rookies like Bisnotway age 24 older then either ofthese 3rd year players, and you have a "formula" for improvement. I also think Fluker will finally step up and challenge at OG, giving us depth.

So long as Rhett Ellison's calf isn't an issue and he's an effective blocker; so long as Hart and Flowers step up to "middle of the pack"; so long as Pugh finally puts 16 healthy, strong games together; and, so long as Richburg learned at Bentley's camp this off-season and brings the joy we'll be fine. The OL just has to be "NFL average" for our offense to produce. If it really does gel year #2 and is better than average (say 10th to 12th range rather than 14th to 17th middle) we'll be dynamite with our weapons and TE blocking help.
As for Hart,  
Doomster : 7/14/2017 7:59 am : link
all that was there in free agency, was way overpriced, and our cap was tight.....

As for the draft, it wasn't a great one for OLmen......We needed a TE....we were basically forced to choose Tomlinson with Hankins gone.....I thought they would go OL or S/CB in the third round, but instead they went for Webb......

Most of BBI think he is the future......I would have used that pick, to play for now....
RE: As for Hart,  
section125 : 7/14/2017 8:21 am : link
In comment 13527985 Doomster said:
Quote:
all that was there in free agency, was way overpriced, and our cap was tight.....

As for the draft, it wasn't a great one for OLmen......We needed a TE....we were basically forced to choose Tomlinson with Hankins gone.....I thought they would go OL or S/CB in the third round, but instead they went for Webb......

Most of BBI think he is the future......I would have used that pick, to play for now....


Asking a 3rd round pick to play for now? If the Giants got Eli's replacement with 3rd rd pick, then they beat the curve. By next year he will be cheaper than Geno and Josh.
RE: RE: As for Hart,  
SGMen : 7/14/2017 8:32 am : link
In comment 13527996 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13527985 Doomster said:


Quote:


all that was there in free agency, was way overpriced, and our cap was tight.....

As for the draft, it wasn't a great one for OLmen......We needed a TE....we were basically forced to choose Tomlinson with Hankins gone.....I thought they would go OL or S/CB in the third round, but instead they went for Webb......

Most of BBI think he is the future......I would have used that pick, to play for now....



Asking a 3rd round pick to play for now? If the Giants got Eli's replacement with 3rd rd pick, then they beat the curve. By next year he will be cheaper than Geno and Josh.
If QB D. Webb isn't flashing a bit here and there this camp, I'd be disappointed but not totally surprised given his college resume.

But if Webb isn't the bonafide #2 next year with no #3 (unless we draft a QB next year as well....) I'd be upset.
My brother and I were discussing QB Webb and he said he was a college transfer cause he couldn't beat out the other guy ahead of him. I believe that was the case but that doesn't mean Webb, with the big arm, big heart, smarts and solid frame can't be the answer down the road.

When you see a QB you like, you take him over a DB which is the position of the most depth in this year's draft I do believe. You take a QB you like in any draft despite the depth you may or may not have. That is how I come out.
That's a little disingenuous SGMen.  
BigBlueWhale : 7/14/2017 2:50 pm : link
Perhaps I'm nitpicking but Webb was coming off an ankle injury & Patrick Mahomes (who ended up being a top 10 pick) just lit it up. Mahomes was implanted as the starter and a perfect fit for the spread, you know how football works, they weren't going to bench him just because Webb was healthy again.

The minute Webb realized it, he transferred because he wanted to play so bad, and threw for 4300 yards and 37 TDs at Cal while enrolled in masters classes. Now he's here.

A snippet from the article linked below:

Quote:
Spike Dykes tries not to advise his son, Sonny, on how to run Cal’s football program. But in December, when Texas Tech quarterback Davis Webb announced his intention to transfer, the elder Dykes couldn’t resist.

“My dad called me every name in the book,” Sonny Dykes said of his 78-year-old father, the second winningest coach in Red Raiders history. “He was like, ‘If you don’t try to get this guy, you’re the biggest moron on the face of the Earth.’”


How Texas Tech transfer Davis Webb ended up at Cal - ( New Window )
with the upgrades at WR/TE  
msh : 7/15/2017 12:51 pm : link
this line wont have to hold up very long,add to that the focus the OT starters have made on getting better and the fact they are 3rd year players while still be 2-3 years younger than the rookies they just drafted

every team in the league has been scrambling to upgrade thier OL its why so many teams have moved up to draft them in recent years the demand and a very small pool of top tier talent at the position in a poor OL year they still managed to get fluker,bisnowaty,dunker and wheeler to upgrade the depth

if they do in fact add a fullback plus the blocking TE that will help in obvious running situations ,vereen needs to hold onto the ball better far too many fumbles before his injury last year, added to perkins and gallman the arrow is pointing up in the run game

but the biggest improvement comes in the receiving corp when they line up with OBJ,marshall,shepard and engram with either perkins or vereen in the back field that looks like a helluva ask for any defence to cover,ironically the giants are one of the few teams that cold deal with that assuming all the starters in the secondary are fit or course

getting goodson in at MB and possibly darian thompson in at free safety or nat berhe staying healthy the defence could and probably will be better than it already was too
RE: That's a little disingenuous SGMen.  
SGMen : 7/15/2017 12:56 pm : link
In comment 13528392 BigBlueWhale said:
Quote:
Perhaps I'm nitpicking but Webb was coming off an ankle injury & Patrick Mahomes (who ended up being a top 10 pick) just lit it up. Mahomes was implanted as the starter and a perfect fit for the spread, you know how football works, they weren't going to bench him just because Webb was healthy again.

The minute Webb realized it, he transferred because he wanted to play so bad, and threw for 4300 yards and 37 TDs at Cal while enrolled in masters classes. Now he's here.

A snippet from the article linked below:



Quote:


Spike Dykes tries not to advise his son, Sonny, on how to run Cal’s football program. But in December, when Texas Tech quarterback Davis Webb announced his intention to transfer, the elder Dykes couldn’t resist.

“My dad called me every name in the book,” Sonny Dykes said of his 78-year-old father, the second winningest coach in Red Raiders history. “He was like, ‘If you don’t try to get this guy, you’re the biggest moron on the face of the Earth.’”

How Texas Tech transfer Davis Webb ended up at Cal - ( New Window )
Interesting, this information is new to me. No one wants to see QB D. Webb perform well & excel quickly than me as I am a rabid Giants fan. I believe Eli has two solid years left in him, maybe 3, and if D. Webb starts year 4 of his contract (final year) and tears it up than we sign him long term, tag him or whatever. I'm not trying to put the cart before the horse but I love when I hear Webb speak he seems mature, ready, hardworking, dedicated and desiring of greatness. OOH RAH, Webb
I know the Quarterback position  
BigBlueWhale : 7/15/2017 1:39 pm : link
in particular is tough to quantify. (Draft talk.) Brian Billick used to say, more than any other position, a guy can appear to have all the tools and you just can't predict how they'll handle A) the physicality of the NFL and B) the sophisticated defenses played by 11 men who aren't taking any false steps. Compared to what they saw in college it looks like there's 13 men on the field.

All that said - I have no idea why Davis Webb wasn't a 1st round QB. Look at the QBs drafted in the 1st round the last several years: Webb fits right in. Great size, and good mobility for it. Has that Rodgers-esque ability to throw from any arm angle and be pinpoint. Great work ethic. World class arm (I believe he threw the highest mph of any QB at the Combine in the last few years.) Highly productive for 2 different programs. By all accounts, great teammate. Lives and breathes football.

How this guy ended up in the 3rd round, I have no idea, but I think we're extremely fortunate. Compare him side by side to Trubisky and even Jared Goff - who would you rather have? Trubisky was a 1-hit wonder while Webb proved himself with 3 solid years and even played as a true freshman at TT. Both carry the same "spread" question marks but it was Webb who (of course) maniacally worked out with Jim Zorn in the offseason to learn WCO footwork.

I like Webb better than any QB in this class and I believe he will prove me right, as he's already said he would.
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