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NFT: Carmelo Trade

PaulN : 7/12/2017 4:48 pm
Is supposedly on the Two yard line. It is on twitter also.
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And KP and Dirk?  
Deej : 7/13/2017 9:42 am : link
Are they in some sort of heel role as reps for European colonialism?

Is Wilson Chandler 2nd generation immigrant? Guy has a name so WASPy it sounds like a law firm.
RE: And KP and Dirk?  
Jon in NYC : 7/13/2017 9:46 am : link
In comment 13527000 Deej said:
Quote:
Are they in some sort of heel role as reps for European colonialism?

Is Wilson Chandler 2nd generation immigrant? Guy has a name so WASPy it sounds like a law firm.


They are on team world.
For  
DanMetroMan : 7/13/2017 9:46 am : link
what it's worth Blazers fans also don't seem too broken up about losing Harkless, some like him but there doesn't seem to be any great "love" for him or view him as a huge loss. Leonard seems like their hated player though.
RE: Return  
Deej : 7/13/2017 9:47 am : link
In comment 13526987 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
I think fans are going to be awfully disappointing in this return. If they are refusing to take on any "bad" contracts, they aren't getting a bundle of picks and young players. You can't have it both ways. When the rockets were looking to dump Andersen, the asking price around the league was 2 future 1sts unprotected. Mills is going to get hosed in this deal. He's in over his head based off the last 2 contracts he just did. Now he's going to successfully navigate a 3 or 4 team trade? He couldn't sign his own restricted free agent Ron Baker to a team friendly deal.

And going after Bledsoe is such a Knicks move it hurts. Nice player but not for the Knicks. It would take future picks to have a shot at him which would be idiotic for the Knicks to do.


I think we will be disappointed in the return, but I reject the concept that we're somehow having it both ways. We're trading a star player. Queue the Melo haters. But the guy can volume score with no help, and is maintaining his career eFG. The only reason we're gonna get squat is that we're very, very poorly run. We are the player at the table that everyone else (Melo included) knows they can take advantage of.

If the return for Melo is ho hum futures and Harkless, a well run team would pass. It wouldnt fall into some trap of believing that you have to trade Melo now and move on. It would stop trading guys at the nadir of their value, stop acquiring guys well past their peak, and stop signing free agents to overpays.
Why the hell  
ryanmkeane : 7/13/2017 9:47 am : link
is Portland even involved in this deal? Taking on Anderson's contract when you can't really compete in the West is a pretty shocking move. I'd think they'd want to shed money no?
RE: For  
TyreeHelmet : 7/13/2017 9:49 am : link
In comment 13527004 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
what it's worth Blazers fans also don't seem too broken up about losing Harkless, some like him but there doesn't seem to be any great "love" for him or view him as a huge loss. Leonard seems like their hated player though.


I really don't think Harkless is worth taking on Leonard. Would have to be picks included to make it worth it. He's really not any good and not on a good contract.
RE: Why the hell  
Deej : 7/13/2017 9:49 am : link
In comment 13527006 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
is Portland even involved in this deal? Taking on Anderson's contract when you can't really compete in the West is a pretty shocking move. I'd think they'd want to shed money no?


This only really seems to make sense for HOU, which is getting Melo for a negative value Anderson and some not very impressive assets (because they really dont have futures to trade).
The Law Offices of Wilson Chandler and Associates  
Greg from LI : 7/13/2017 9:50 am : link
haha
I get it from Houston's  
ryanmkeane : 7/13/2017 9:52 am : link
perspective, Morey is all in for next season. But this would not be a good trade for Portland. They seemed destined to be in that 7-8 seed role year over year, and this just adds salary to the team.
Jazz  
DanMetroMan : 7/13/2017 9:57 am : link
sign Ekpe Udoh 2 years 6.5. He became a player in Europe. Hayward fucked them but I really like the off-season they are having all things considered.
I haven't seen any legit  
Strahan91 : 7/13/2017 10:01 am : link
sources say that Portland is even in the deal other than Jsports a week ago but he also said yesterday he doesn't know if that's the current framework. It seems like he said that and then all the Tommy Dee's of the world started to throw Portland in there and guess that it's close or done to claim credit and now it has become assumed that Portland is in there. They makes sense as a third time but I don't think they have any higher likelihood of being in the deal as say the Pelicans, Suns or Denver does.
RE: Jazz  
Enzo : 7/13/2017 10:03 am : link
In comment 13527016 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
sign Ekpe Udoh 2 years 6.5. He became a player in Europe. Hayward fucked them but I really like the off-season they are having all things considered.

we should start a running list of all the players who got less money than Baker.
RE: I haven't seen any legit  
nygiants16 : 7/13/2017 10:19 am : link
In comment 13527018 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
sources say that Portland is even in the deal other than Jsports a week ago but he also said yesterday he doesn't know if that's the current framework. It seems like he said that and then all the Tommy Dee's of the world started to throw Portland in there and guess that it's close or done to claim credit and now it has become assumed that Portland is in there. They makes sense as a third time but I don't think they have any higher likelihood of being in the deal as say the Pelicans, Suns or Denver does.


woj said yesterday that the knicks and rockets feel confident they have a 3 team bit there is one player that neither wants and they are looking for a 4th team...

everyone assunes it is portland and leonard is the player no one wants
If its just Harkless/Leonard....  
Italianju : 7/13/2017 10:28 am : link
for anderson i dont think its a bad move for POR. It turns two bad contracts into one bad contract, but Anderson is by far the best player of the 3. Now if POR throws in anything else then i dont really get it for them. That said lots of teams still want to try to make the playoffs.
If the Pelicans are involved  
rich in DC : 7/13/2017 10:45 am : link
There was an article in the Post today hinting that the Pelicans may be interested in getting Anderson back (he used to play there). However, with Davis and Cousins, that might be hard to do.

There is a possible 4 way deal that involves Portland and New Orleans, if each team is willing to take a risk.

Suppose the Knicks send Melo to Houston and Lee to Portland.

Portland sends Harkless, Ezeli, Davis and Vonleh to the Knicks with a 1st rounder.

Houston sends Anderson and Gordon to N.O. and Ariza to the Knicks.

New Orleans sends Cousins to Houston and Asik to Portland.

Obviously, some filler all around would be required to make salaries match.

For Houston, it would be a massive gamble that Melo, Cousins, Paul and Harden can co-exist- but on paper, that is a team that could legitimately contend in the West- while still having a decent bench.

For the Knicks, outside of a 1st rounder, they aren't getting much- if any- in player value for Melo or Lee. However, they would get a fistful of expiring deals and some cap relief.

For New Orleans, they aren't getting much of a return on Cousins- but they might have trouble signing him in FA anyway. They would add two outside scorers would could better space the floor for Davis and give Holiday options to distribute. They would not be a contender, but might be more balanced and competitive in the West.

Portland gets not very much talent for what amounts to 4 bench players- but they would get some minor cap relief. They could extend the cap relief even more if they could slide say, Leonard for Moore from N.O. It would also allow them to market CJ McCollum for some real 3-4 spot talent.

It isn't a perfect trade for any of the teams, and all would assume some degree of risk, with only Houston having obvious upside. However, each team has holes and issues- and this at least tries to address those issues for all.
Harkless is most certainly an asset.  
Keith : 7/13/2017 10:55 am : link
He's young(in age) and he's proven to be a solid player. At $10M per for 3 years in todays NBA, that's not a bad deal. I would def call him an asset.
New Orleans  
Jon in NYC : 7/13/2017 10:56 am : link
is sending Boogie out for two shitty contracts less than one year after giving up considerable assets to get him?
Would the Knicks do better to wait  
andrew_nyg : 7/13/2017 10:58 am : link
and let Melo rebuild his trade value leading up to the trade deadline this season hoping that a team (Cleveland/Houston/Miami...name another) would see him as the piece they need to get over the top?
RE: Would the Knicks do better to wait  
ADeP7 : 7/13/2017 11:05 am : link
In comment 13527062 andrew_nyg said:
Quote:
and let Melo rebuild his trade value leading up to the trade deadline this season hoping that a team (Cleveland/Houston/Miami...name another) would see him as the piece they need to get over the top?


I get the idea. But the Knicks need to tank. And after all of the shit that has gone on. The Knicks and melo need this relationship to end. He has to be gone come training camp
This is a chance to start fresh and grow some chemistry between young guys
(Frank,thj,porz,Gomez). Also to build what hornacek wants in place.
If you keep melo you just keep the media on top of the trade rumors and keep the ball stopper who doesn't help develop anyone. Add in that melo will hurt the ability to tank by having his nights of 35 points and it's just not smart to keep him
Blazers  
DanMetroMan : 7/13/2017 11:09 am : link
fan to me on twitter

"Leonard is absolutely awful. Low IQ, great body, that's about it"

I can't claim I've watched him enough to comment on his IQ but when I've seen him play he looks jacked but that's all you notice. He sucks. Please no.
When in the f*ck is this trade happening?  
Chris684 : 7/13/2017 11:11 am : link
Granted I'm probably anticipating it far too much for the value (or lack thereof) in return for the Knicks but still.
leonard sucks...  
Italianju : 7/13/2017 11:14 am : link
no question about that. And he is overpaid.

POR or HOU or whoever would have to be throwing a couple more assets are way for me to take on Leonard.
RE: RE: I haven't seen any legit  
Strahan91 : 7/13/2017 11:57 am : link
In comment 13527026 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13527018 Strahan91 said:


Quote:


sources say that Portland is even in the deal other than Jsports a week ago but he also said yesterday he doesn't know if that's the current framework. It seems like he said that and then all the Tommy Dee's of the world started to throw Portland in there and guess that it's close or done to claim credit and now it has become assumed that Portland is in there. They makes sense as a third time but I don't think they have any higher likelihood of being in the deal as say the Pelicans, Suns or Denver does.



woj said yesterday that the knicks and rockets feel confident they have a 3 team bit there is one player that neither wants and they are looking for a 4th team...

everyone assunes it is portland and leonard is the player no one wants


That's what I was saying. Seems like everyone is just assuming that's the case. I also wouldn't be surprised if that deal fell apart because of Leonard and they gained traction the past two days on a different trade (maybe involving the Pelicans). Just reading between the lines after I can remember who but some reporter wrote that it seemed like talks had stalled over the weekend and then picked up on Tuesday.
UGH...  
Italianju : 7/13/2017 12:03 pm : link
Shams Charania‏Verified account @ShamsCharania 2m2 minutes ago
More
Sources: The San Antonio Spurs have renounced guard Jonathon Simmons, making him an unrestricted free agent.

Glad we have no money left.
prolly could have got Simmons...  
Italianju : 7/13/2017 12:06 pm : link
for half the THJR contract now.
The problem here is that Houston isnt giving fair value  
Deej : 7/13/2017 12:06 pm : link
they're getting Melo and shipping off Anderson, who has negative value of at least -2 #1 picks. Houston does not have enough assets to plug back into the equation to even get to net neutral value on the Anderson piece, let alone give a return for Melo, unless they are putting in Gordon and someone will pay significantly for him.

I'm hopeful that the trade is not actually Anderson based for this reason. Anderson and pieces for Melo is a gift to the Rockets.
RE: prolly could have got Simmons...  
Deej : 7/13/2017 12:09 pm : link
In comment 13527148 Italianju said:
Quote:
for half the THJR contract now.


THJR is a better player.
im not sure he is...  
Italianju : 7/13/2017 12:11 pm : link
but even if he is, Is he twice the salary commitment better?
seemingly every possible  
Enzo : 7/13/2017 12:16 pm : link
Houston trade sucks. One of the recent articles said the Cavs are still showing interest. To me, something with them seems potentially more workable.
It's  
DanMetroMan : 7/13/2017 12:19 pm : link
believed Jsports knows/is friendly with Courtney Lee aka "his source".
Cavs still being interested is what gives us the...  
Italianju : 7/13/2017 12:19 pm : link
tiny bit of leverage in these talks. If we arent getting back extra pieces like Qi or whatever then why make this deal. Just go to CLE and trade him for all expirings like Shump/Frye and move on. You can try to spin shump/frye during the year or whatever. It would be better then taking on crappy deals like Anderson or Leonard.
I know given Knicks management this is impossible  
jcn56 : 7/13/2017 12:21 pm : link
but maybe the thought of giving Melo away to the Rockets is enough to prod the Cavs into giving something useful?
RE: Cavs still being interested is what gives us the...  
Enzo : 7/13/2017 12:24 pm : link
In comment 13527175 Italianju said:
Quote:
tiny bit of leverage in these talks. If we arent getting back extra pieces like Qi or whatever then why make this deal. Just go to CLE and trade him for all expirings like Shump/Frye and move on. You can try to spin shump/frye during the year or whatever. It would be better then taking on crappy deals like Anderson or Leonard.

or just tell Houston you want Ariza and Gordon and a pick. Or make it: Melo/Noah for Anderson/Ariza/Gordon. And when they say no just walk away. There's no need to make this trade in July.
cavs dont have anything useful....  
Italianju : 7/13/2017 12:24 pm : link
they know they arent any better if they swap love for Melo.
maybe there's a crazy 3 way or 4 way deal  
Enzo : 7/13/2017 12:31 pm : link
that could involve the Spurs and Cavs with Melo going to Cleveland, Love to the Spurs, and LMA going somewhere for assets.
and other stuff  
Enzo : 7/13/2017 12:32 pm : link
like Lee/Lance going to the Cavs for expirings or whatever to build up their bench/rotation.
RE: im not sure he is...  
Deej : 7/13/2017 12:37 pm : link
In comment 13527156 Italianju said:
Quote:
but even if he is, Is he twice the salary commitment better?


I think he's probably worth twice as much. Simmons is vastly overrated. This happens all the time with role players on very good teams.

Simmons is not a good shooter at SG, which will cause problems if you try to lean on him for anything. THJR is a lot younger and can therefore be expected to see more improvement, and already wins the advanced stats battles over the last two seasons (THJR vs. JS):

PER: 14.2 vs 10.6
WS48: .106 vs .087
Net o/d rtg: +2 vs. -2
BPM: -.8 vs -1.5
VORP: .9 vs 0.3

THJR had to do it in a tougher situation. Especially last year when that Hawks team was really lacking a playmaker beyond Schroeder. Simmons has generally been more sheltered, having better teammates. On the plus side he held up well in the playoffs.

To me THJR is a class above Simmons. Simmons is 100% a bench guy, with only improbable upside to develop into a starter (or he could start on an overpowered team that can eat a good defensive SG in the lineup, but it would limit them). THJR is a budding starter, or a very good 6th man. One can quibble with 71 million for such a player, but he's better than Simmons.





simmons probably best suited  
hitdog42 : 7/13/2017 12:48 pm : link
in a 3/4 role on a motion team- i think
agree as a SG you cannot sacrifice the consistent shooting
Is caldwell-pope a better player? He's the name a few  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/13/2017 12:53 pm : link
People have said they should have waited for.
Sorry Dan...  
Italianju : 7/13/2017 1:05 pm : link
Ramona Shelburne‏Verified account @ramonashelburne 6m6 minutes
The Lakers are signing Alex Caruso, their summer league sensation, to a two year deal. It'll be a two-way... http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0677197110369590955-4
RE: Is caldwell-pope a better player? He's the name a few  
Jon in NYC : 7/13/2017 1:14 pm : link
In comment 13527243 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
People have said they should have waited for.


He's a considerably worse scorer and a marginally better defender. All things equal I think I'd rather have THJR
RE: Is caldwell-pope a better player? He's the name a few  
Deej : 7/13/2017 1:21 pm : link
In comment 13527243 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
People have said they should have waited for.


KCP turned down 80 million over 5 and got made a UFA. He signed a one year deal to try to get back to market next 7/1 as a UFA and get a max deal.

I'd rather have signed the KCP contract because I dont like the bargain we struck with THJR. They're getting the same $$ annually. I think they're players of similar value, but if I was building a team I'd have a preference for KCP. I think he's more of a sure thing because he can always hang his hat on his good D.
RE: RE: Is caldwell-pope a better player? He's the name a few  
Strahan91 : 7/13/2017 1:32 pm : link
In comment 13527288 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13527243 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


People have said they should have waited for.



KCP turned down 80 million over 5 and got made a UFA. He signed a one year deal to try to get back to market next 7/1 as a UFA and get a max deal.

I'd rather have signed the KCP contract because I dont like the bargain we struck with THJR. They're getting the same $$ annually. I think they're players of similar value, but if I was building a team I'd have a preference for KCP. I think he's more of a sure thing because he can always hang his hat on his good D.


To be clear, I'm no fan of the THJ contract but a 1-yr deal for KCP makes little sense. If he plays well, he walks and cashes in on a big payday so for the one season you have him he could improve your win total and the Knicks are a team that is better served getting the highest pick possible. Wouldn't make much sense for them in my opinion but there's certainly a devil's advocate argument one can make.

If we're talking equal years/dollars, I think Hardaway is a better fit next to Frank. Frank will hopefully be a very good defensive player which can mask Hardaway's deficiencies but since it's unlikely he's a guy that can easily create his own shot, putting him next to KCP makes little sense since they share that attribute or lack thereof. Hardaway on the other hand is a threat to score anywhere on the floor and can create his own shot which should open things up for the offense and fit nicely next to Frank in 2 years.
RE: Sorry Dan...  
DanMetroMan : 7/13/2017 1:46 pm : link
In comment 13527262 Italianju said:
Quote:
Ramona Shelburne‏Verified account @ramonashelburne 6m6 minutes
The Lakers are signing Alex Caruso, their summer league sensation, to a two year deal. It'll be a two-way... http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0677197110369590955-4


Boooooooooooooooooooooo
Rondo  
DanMetroMan : 7/13/2017 1:47 pm : link
in talks with the Pelicans. 1 year deal
RE: RE: RE: Is caldwell-pope a better player? He's the name a few  
David in LA : 7/13/2017 1:48 pm : link
In comment 13527297 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 13527288 Deej said:


Quote:


In comment 13527243 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


People have said they should have waited for.



KCP turned down 80 million over 5 and got made a UFA. He signed a one year deal to try to get back to market next 7/1 as a UFA and get a max deal.

I'd rather have signed the KCP contract because I dont like the bargain we struck with THJR. They're getting the same $$ annually. I think they're players of similar value, but if I was building a team I'd have a preference for KCP. I think he's more of a sure thing because he can always hang his hat on his good D.



To be clear, I'm no fan of the THJ contract but a 1-yr deal for KCP makes little sense. If he plays well, he walks and cashes in on a big payday so for the one season you have him he could improve your win total and the Knicks are a team that is better served getting the highest pick possible. Wouldn't make much sense for them in my opinion but there's certainly a devil's advocate argument one can make.

If we're talking equal years/dollars, I think Hardaway is a better fit next to Frank. Frank will hopefully be a very good defensive player which can mask Hardaway's deficiencies but since it's unlikely he's a guy that can easily create his own shot, putting him next to KCP makes little sense since they share that attribute or lack thereof. Hardaway on the other hand is a threat to score anywhere on the floor and can create his own shot which should open things up for the offense and fit nicely next to Frank in 2 years.


Lakers' plan is to keep the cap space next year in tact. I like the one year deal for KCP, and he'll have a chance to cash in next year with someone else. I think he's a great fit with Lonzo in the back court. This is the first time in a while that I've been optimistic about this season. Lonzo looked like the truth last night.
...  
Keith : 7/13/2017 9:24 pm : link
The Knicks have paused Carmelo Anthony trade talks with Houston and Cleveland, according to ESPN.com.
This probably has a lot to do with the Knicks hiring Scott Perry to be their new general manager. The Knicks aren't really in a rush to get a deal done anyway, especially since the Rockets and Cavs aren't oozing with young talent or draft picks.
Totally  
Jon in NYC : 7/13/2017 9:26 pm : link
fine with that.

Not like we were getting some haul in return.
So  
DanMetroMan : 7/13/2017 9:27 pm : link
Jsports is officially not a source. Said the deal was done with houston.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Is caldwell-pope a better player? He's the name a few  
Deej : 7/13/2017 9:43 pm : link
In comment 13527334 David in LA said:
Quote:


Lakers' plan is to keep the cap space next year in tact. I like the one year deal for KCP, and he'll have a chance to cash in next year with someone else. I think he's a great fit with Lonzo in the back court. This is the first time in a while that I've been optimistic about this season. Lonzo looked like the truth last night.


He should make them better, which will paradoxically make them a better UFA draw, even if the UFA displaces him. Basically, my working theory is that UFAs are not very imaginative (or willing to go on hope), and are more interested in going to a team that won the year before rather than projecting how good a team will be once they join.
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