Carroll is better than all 3 and just returned a 1 and a 2 for his remaining 30 million. Carroll is still a decent player -- would make the rotation of very good teams. LA had to attach Russell to be rid of Moz, and I think Russell would have returned 4 or 5 overall value in this draft, straight up.
These guys suck. Taking on their remaining 90-100 million should return 5 or 6 #1s IMO unless maybe you have really good cause to believe some of the picks will be high.
It's almost like people think you should get LESS for taking back a ton of bad contracts. Nuts. [/quote]
Major difference is that New Orleans is taking back the same amount of money in the trade. It's not a salary dump, it's just getting better players.
You are gambling on things blowing up in New Orleans with Cousins leaving and even possibly Davis leaving down the line. It's an outside the box trade but the reward outweighs the risk. The Knicks are already going to be capped out the next 3 years. Why not get 3 future 1sts in return?
Mills would never do this trade but I sure wish he would.
I don't think the Knicks have the pieces to get Bledsoe but I would certainly try. He is a top 25 player in the league who is in his prime. I don't get why people are so down on him.
tank plan so i dont think it would be worth spinning whatever we get from HOU/POR into Bledsoe. And without that we dont have the pieces to get him. Im pretty sure Lee and KOQ doesnt get it done, lol.
I don't think the Knicks have the pieces to get Bledsoe but I would certainly try. He is a top 25 player in the league who is in his prime. I don't get why people are so down on him.
He misses a lot of games.
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He will be 28 early next basketball season. The chances of that issue improving with age are slim.
not a swipe at anyone here but I often see stuff like "they can try".... what are they trying with? The Knicks best assets are
KP
Willy
Frank
1st round picks
they have NOTHING else of value for Eric Bledsoe. This isn't like other sports where there is a minor league system and "prospects". Bledsoe has a below market deal (2 years 14.5 per season). What are you giving up? They have nothing.
not a swipe at anyone here but I often see stuff like "they can try".... what are they trying with? The Knicks best assets are
KP
Willy
Frank
1st round picks
they have NOTHING else of value for Eric Bledsoe. This isn't like other sports where there is a minor league system and "prospects". Bledsoe has a below market deal (2 years 14.5 per season). What are you giving up? They have nothing.
i was saying if they really do get harkless and "assets" maybr the plan is to flip those assets with lee for bledsoe...
if they do not get anything otger than harkless then you are not getting bledsoe
not a swipe at anyone here but I often see stuff like "they can try".... what are they trying with? The Knicks best assets are
KP
Willy
Frank
1st round picks
they have NOTHING else of value for Eric Bledsoe. This isn't like other sports where there is a minor league system and "prospects". Bledsoe has a below market deal (2 years 14.5 per season). What are you giving up? They have nothing.
i was saying if they really do get harkless and "assets" maybr the plan is to flip those assets with lee for bledsoe...
if they do not get anything otger than harkless then you are not getting bledsoe
The Blazers aren't taking Ryan Anderson and also giving up Harkless and a 1st, that would be ridiculous and the Rockets don't have a first until 2019 and their pick figures to be awful. That's the best the Suns can do for Eric Bledsoe? Seems far fetched.
I think that would be a win for the Knicks if they got Bledsoe
Harkless is NOT part of the trade we can officially cross off Hoopsinq as a legit source, even if he is it doesn't mean anything because we've been hearing Harkless involved for weeks but they (like Jsports) have gone all-in on making definitive statements.
I think fans are going to be awfully disappointing in this return. If they are refusing to take on any "bad" contracts, they aren't getting a bundle of picks and young players. You can't have it both ways. When the rockets were looking to dump Andersen, the asking price around the league was 2 future 1sts unprotected. Mills is going to get hosed in this deal. He's in over his head based off the last 2 contracts he just did. Now he's going to successfully navigate a 3 or 4 team trade? He couldn't sign his own restricted free agent Ron Baker to a team friendly deal.
And going after Bledsoe is such a Knicks move it hurts. Nice player but not for the Knicks. It would take future picks to have a shot at him which would be idiotic for the Knicks to do.
Team Africa, comprised of players born in Africa and second-generation African players, will be led by team captains Luol Deng (Los Angeles Lakers; South Sudan) and Thabo Sefolosha (most recently with the Atlanta Hawks; Switzerland; South African parent).
Download and log into the new Kwes App and watch Live NBA action for free at the click of a button. Download the Android app at Google Play, or the iOS version at the App Store!
Deng and Sefolosha will be joined by Bismack Biyombo (Orlando Magic; Democratic Republic of Congo), Clint Capela (Houston Rockets; Switzerland; parents from Angola and Congo), Gorgui Dieng (Minnesota Timberwolves; Senegal), Joel Embiid (Philadelphia 76ers; Cameroon), Serge Ibaka (Toronto Raptors; Congo), Luc Mbah a Moute (most recently with the LA Clippers; Cameroon), Salah Mejri (Dallas Mavericks; Tunisia), Emmanuel Mudiay (Denver Nuggets; DRC), Victor Oladipo (Indiana Pacers; US.; Nigerian parent) and Dennis Schroder (Atlanta Hawks; Germany; Gambian parent).
Team Africa, comprised of players born in Africa and second-generation African players, will be led by team captains Luol Deng (Los Angeles Lakers; South Sudan) and Thabo Sefolosha (most recently with the Atlanta Hawks; Switzerland; South African parent).
Download and log into the new Kwes App and watch Live NBA action for free at the click of a button. Download the Android app at Google Play, or the iOS version at the App Store!
Deng and Sefolosha will be joined by Bismack Biyombo (Orlando Magic; Democratic Republic of Congo), Clint Capela (Houston Rockets; Switzerland; parents from Angola and Congo), Gorgui Dieng (Minnesota Timberwolves; Senegal), Joel Embiid (Philadelphia 76ers; Cameroon), Serge Ibaka (Toronto Raptors; Congo), Luc Mbah a Moute (most recently with the LA Clippers; Cameroon), Salah Mejri (Dallas Mavericks; Tunisia), Emmanuel Mudiay (Denver Nuggets; DRC), Victor Oladipo (Indiana Pacers; US.; Nigerian parent) and Dennis Schroder (Atlanta Hawks; Germany; Gambian parent).
a friendly salary for someone who *appears* to not be much of a difference maker. But then again, I haven't seen him play much. What's the consensus on him?
"MRW I notice Harkless part of a trade but also Leonard"
-It's pretty toxic
Hes probably one of the worst under-30 players in the NBA not on a rookie or minimum deal.
Harkless for Anderson straight up is questionable, but dumping Leonard along with it makes it better.
-Meyers Leonard is our Dirk Nowitzki...only he's terrible and not German
-But we would really like Leonard to go.
Salaries dont have to match for NY, as they have lots of room. Harkless, Leonard and Ariza are probably all headed to NY.
-Eh
Overall I dont "believe" the trade Leonard cant play next to; or replace, Porzingod. No way NYK really wants a piece of him. Harkless, on the other hand, is a better fit and slots into Melos place (badly, but they play the same position).
-We might have to give one more piece or picks to make this happen but also love the idea of finally splitting with Leonard. Were over that experiment time to move on.
what it's worth Blazers fans also don't seem too broken up about losing Harkless, some like him but there doesn't seem to be any great "love" for him or view him as a huge loss. Leonard seems like their hated player though.
I think fans are going to be awfully disappointing in this return. If they are refusing to take on any "bad" contracts, they aren't getting a bundle of picks and young players. You can't have it both ways. When the rockets were looking to dump Andersen, the asking price around the league was 2 future 1sts unprotected. Mills is going to get hosed in this deal. He's in over his head based off the last 2 contracts he just did. Now he's going to successfully navigate a 3 or 4 team trade? He couldn't sign his own restricted free agent Ron Baker to a team friendly deal.
And going after Bledsoe is such a Knicks move it hurts. Nice player but not for the Knicks. It would take future picks to have a shot at him which would be idiotic for the Knicks to do.
I think we will be disappointed in the return, but I reject the concept that we're somehow having it both ways. We're trading a star player. Queue the Melo haters. But the guy can volume score with no help, and is maintaining his career eFG. The only reason we're gonna get squat is that we're very, very poorly run. We are the player at the table that everyone else (Melo included) knows they can take advantage of.
If the return for Melo is ho hum futures and Harkless, a well run team would pass. It wouldnt fall into some trap of believing that you have to trade Melo now and move on. It would stop trading guys at the nadir of their value, stop acquiring guys well past their peak, and stop signing free agents to overpays.
is Portland even involved in this deal? Taking on Anderson's contract when you can't really compete in the West is a pretty shocking move. I'd think they'd want to shed money no?
what it's worth Blazers fans also don't seem too broken up about losing Harkless, some like him but there doesn't seem to be any great "love" for him or view him as a huge loss. Leonard seems like their hated player though.
I really don't think Harkless is worth taking on Leonard. Would have to be picks included to make it worth it. He's really not any good and not on a good contract.
is Portland even involved in this deal? Taking on Anderson's contract when you can't really compete in the West is a pretty shocking move. I'd think they'd want to shed money no?
This only really seems to make sense for HOU, which is getting Melo for a negative value Anderson and some not very impressive assets (because they really dont have futures to trade).
perspective, Morey is all in for next season. But this would not be a good trade for Portland. They seemed destined to be in that 7-8 seed role year over year, and this just adds salary to the team.
sources say that Portland is even in the deal other than Jsports a week ago but he also said yesterday he doesn't know if that's the current framework. It seems like he said that and then all the Tommy Dee's of the world started to throw Portland in there and guess that it's close or done to claim credit and now it has become assumed that Portland is in there. They makes sense as a third time but I don't think they have any higher likelihood of being in the deal as say the Pelicans, Suns or Denver does.
sources say that Portland is even in the deal other than Jsports a week ago but he also said yesterday he doesn't know if that's the current framework. It seems like he said that and then all the Tommy Dee's of the world started to throw Portland in there and guess that it's close or done to claim credit and now it has become assumed that Portland is in there. They makes sense as a third time but I don't think they have any higher likelihood of being in the deal as say the Pelicans, Suns or Denver does.
woj said yesterday that the knicks and rockets feel confident they have a 3 team bit there is one player that neither wants and they are looking for a 4th team...
everyone assunes it is portland and leonard is the player no one wants
for anderson i dont think its a bad move for POR. It turns two bad contracts into one bad contract, but Anderson is by far the best player of the 3. Now if POR throws in anything else then i dont really get it for them. That said lots of teams still want to try to make the playoffs.
There was an article in the Post today hinting that the Pelicans may be interested in getting Anderson back (he used to play there). However, with Davis and Cousins, that might be hard to do.
There is a possible 4 way deal that involves Portland and New Orleans, if each team is willing to take a risk.
Suppose the Knicks send Melo to Houston and Lee to Portland.
Portland sends Harkless, Ezeli, Davis and Vonleh to the Knicks with a 1st rounder.
Houston sends Anderson and Gordon to N.O. and Ariza to the Knicks.
New Orleans sends Cousins to Houston and Asik to Portland.
Obviously, some filler all around would be required to make salaries match.
For Houston, it would be a massive gamble that Melo, Cousins, Paul and Harden can co-exist- but on paper, that is a team that could legitimately contend in the West- while still having a decent bench.
For the Knicks, outside of a 1st rounder, they aren't getting much- if any- in player value for Melo or Lee. However, they would get a fistful of expiring deals and some cap relief.
For New Orleans, they aren't getting much of a return on Cousins- but they might have trouble signing him in FA anyway. They would add two outside scorers would could better space the floor for Davis and give Holiday options to distribute. They would not be a contender, but might be more balanced and competitive in the West.
Portland gets not very much talent for what amounts to 4 bench players- but they would get some minor cap relief. They could extend the cap relief even more if they could slide say, Leonard for Moore from N.O. It would also allow them to market CJ McCollum for some real 3-4 spot talent.
It isn't a perfect trade for any of the teams, and all would assume some degree of risk, with only Houston having obvious upside. However, each team has holes and issues- and this at least tries to address those issues for all.
and let Melo rebuild his trade value leading up to the trade deadline this season hoping that a team (Cleveland/Houston/Miami...name another) would see him as the piece they need to get over the top?
and let Melo rebuild his trade value leading up to the trade deadline this season hoping that a team (Cleveland/Houston/Miami...name another) would see him as the piece they need to get over the top?
I get the idea. But the Knicks need to tank. And after all of the shit that has gone on. The Knicks and melo need this relationship to end. He has to be gone come training camp
This is a chance to start fresh and grow some chemistry between young guys
(Frank,thj,porz,Gomez). Also to build what hornacek wants in place.
If you keep melo you just keep the media on top of the trade rumors and keep the ball stopper who doesn't help develop anyone. Add in that melo will hurt the ability to tank by having his nights of 35 points and it's just not smart to keep him
sources say that Portland is even in the deal other than Jsports a week ago but he also said yesterday he doesn't know if that's the current framework. It seems like he said that and then all the Tommy Dee's of the world started to throw Portland in there and guess that it's close or done to claim credit and now it has become assumed that Portland is in there. They makes sense as a third time but I don't think they have any higher likelihood of being in the deal as say the Pelicans, Suns or Denver does.
woj said yesterday that the knicks and rockets feel confident they have a 3 team bit there is one player that neither wants and they are looking for a 4th team...
everyone assunes it is portland and leonard is the player no one wants
That's what I was saying. Seems like everyone is just assuming that's the case. I also wouldn't be surprised if that deal fell apart because of Leonard and they gained traction the past two days on a different trade (maybe involving the Pelicans). Just reading between the lines after I can remember who but some reporter wrote that it seemed like talks had stalled over the weekend and then picked up on Tuesday.
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Sources: The San Antonio Spurs have renounced guard Jonathon Simmons, making him an unrestricted free agent.
they're getting Melo and shipping off Anderson, who has negative value of at least -2 #1 picks. Houston does not have enough assets to plug back into the equation to even get to net neutral value on the Anderson piece, let alone give a return for Melo, unless they are putting in Gordon and someone will pay significantly for him.
I'm hopeful that the trade is not actually Anderson based for this reason. Anderson and pieces for Melo is a gift to the Rockets.
OK, that's my thought as well. Guy avg 21 & 7 last year. We don't have anything that gets him.
Carroll is better than all 3 and just returned a 1 and a 2 for his remaining 30 million. Carroll is still a decent player -- would make the rotation of very good teams. LA had to attach Russell to be rid of Moz, and I think Russell would have returned 4 or 5 overall value in this draft, straight up.
These guys suck. Taking on their remaining 90-100 million should return 5 or 6 #1s IMO unless maybe you have really good cause to believe some of the picks will be high.
It's almost like people think you should get LESS for taking back a ton of bad contracts. Nuts. [/quote]
Major difference is that New Orleans is taking back the same amount of money in the trade. It's not a salary dump, it's just getting better players.
You are gambling on things blowing up in New Orleans with Cousins leaving and even possibly Davis leaving down the line. It's an outside the box trade but the reward outweighs the risk. The Knicks are already going to be capped out the next 3 years. Why not get 3 future 1sts in return?
Mills would never do this trade but I sure wish he would.
He misses a lot of games.
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He will be 28 early next basketball season. The chances of that issue improving with age are slim.
KP
Willy
Frank
1st round picks
they have NOTHING else of value for Eric Bledsoe. This isn't like other sports where there is a minor league system and "prospects". Bledsoe has a below market deal (2 years 14.5 per season). What are you giving up? They have nothing.
KP
Willy
Frank
1st round picks
they have NOTHING else of value for Eric Bledsoe. This isn't like other sports where there is a minor league system and "prospects". Bledsoe has a below market deal (2 years 14.5 per season). What are you giving up? They have nothing.
i was saying if they really do get harkless and "assets" maybr the plan is to flip those assets with lee for bledsoe...
if they do not get anything otger than harkless then you are not getting bledsoe
Quote:
not a swipe at anyone here but I often see stuff like "they can try".... what are they trying with? The Knicks best assets are
KP
Willy
Frank
1st round picks
they have NOTHING else of value for Eric Bledsoe. This isn't like other sports where there is a minor league system and "prospects". Bledsoe has a below market deal (2 years 14.5 per season). What are you giving up? They have nothing.
i was saying if they really do get harkless and "assets" maybr the plan is to flip those assets with lee for bledsoe...
if they do not get anything otger than harkless then you are not getting bledsoe
The Blazers aren't taking Ryan Anderson and also giving up Harkless and a 1st, that would be ridiculous and the Rockets don't have a first until 2019 and their pick figures to be awful. That's the best the Suns can do for Eric Bledsoe? Seems far fetched.
He and Frank could play together some, too, with Frank off the ball.
And going after Bledsoe is such a Knicks move it hurts. Nice player but not for the Knicks. It would take future picks to have a shot at him which would be idiotic for the Knicks to do.
Team Africa, comprised of players born in Africa and second-generation African players, will be led by team captains Luol Deng (Los Angeles Lakers; South Sudan) and Thabo Sefolosha (most recently with the Atlanta Hawks; Switzerland; South African parent).
Download and log into the new Kwes App and watch Live NBA action for free at the click of a button. Download the Android app at Google Play, or the iOS version at the App Store!
Deng and Sefolosha will be joined by Bismack Biyombo (Orlando Magic; Democratic Republic of Congo), Clint Capela (Houston Rockets; Switzerland; parents from Angola and Congo), Gorgui Dieng (Minnesota Timberwolves; Senegal), Joel Embiid (Philadelphia 76ers; Cameroon), Serge Ibaka (Toronto Raptors; Congo), Luc Mbah a Moute (most recently with the LA Clippers; Cameroon), Salah Mejri (Dallas Mavericks; Tunisia), Emmanuel Mudiay (Denver Nuggets; DRC), Victor Oladipo (Indiana Pacers; US.; Nigerian parent) and Dennis Schroder (Atlanta Hawks; Germany; Gambian parent).
Quote:
is on Team Africa?
Team Africa, comprised of players born in Africa and second-generation African players, will be led by team captains Luol Deng (Los Angeles Lakers; South Sudan) and Thabo Sefolosha (most recently with the Atlanta Hawks; Switzerland; South African parent).
Download and log into the new Kwes App and watch Live NBA action for free at the click of a button. Download the Android app at Google Play, or the iOS version at the App Store!
Deng and Sefolosha will be joined by Bismack Biyombo (Orlando Magic; Democratic Republic of Congo), Clint Capela (Houston Rockets; Switzerland; parents from Angola and Congo), Gorgui Dieng (Minnesota Timberwolves; Senegal), Joel Embiid (Philadelphia 76ers; Cameroon), Serge Ibaka (Toronto Raptors; Congo), Luc Mbah a Moute (most recently with the LA Clippers; Cameroon), Salah Mejri (Dallas Mavericks; Tunisia), Emmanuel Mudiay (Denver Nuggets; DRC), Victor Oladipo (Indiana Pacers; US.; Nigerian parent) and Dennis Schroder (Atlanta Hawks; Germany; Gambian parent).
Thanks. Should be a fun game. Lot of good bigs.
-It's pretty toxic
Hes probably one of the worst under-30 players in the NBA not on a rookie or minimum deal.
Harkless for Anderson straight up is questionable, but dumping Leonard along with it makes it better.
-Meyers Leonard is our Dirk Nowitzki...only he's terrible and not German
-But we would really like Leonard to go.
Salaries dont have to match for NY, as they have lots of room. Harkless, Leonard and Ariza are probably all headed to NY.
-Eh
Overall I dont "believe" the trade Leonard cant play next to; or replace, Porzingod. No way NYK really wants a piece of him. Harkless, on the other hand, is a better fit and slots into Melos place (badly, but they play the same position).
-We might have to give one more piece or picks to make this happen but also love the idea of finally splitting with Leonard. Were over that experiment time to move on.
Is Wilson Chandler 2nd generation immigrant? Guy has a name so WASPy it sounds like a law firm.
Is Wilson Chandler 2nd generation immigrant? Guy has a name so WASPy it sounds like a law firm.
They are on team world.
And going after Bledsoe is such a Knicks move it hurts. Nice player but not for the Knicks. It would take future picks to have a shot at him which would be idiotic for the Knicks to do.
I think we will be disappointed in the return, but I reject the concept that we're somehow having it both ways. We're trading a star player. Queue the Melo haters. But the guy can volume score with no help, and is maintaining his career eFG. The only reason we're gonna get squat is that we're very, very poorly run. We are the player at the table that everyone else (Melo included) knows they can take advantage of.
If the return for Melo is ho hum futures and Harkless, a well run team would pass. It wouldnt fall into some trap of believing that you have to trade Melo now and move on. It would stop trading guys at the nadir of their value, stop acquiring guys well past their peak, and stop signing free agents to overpays.
I really don't think Harkless is worth taking on Leonard. Would have to be picks included to make it worth it. He's really not any good and not on a good contract.
This only really seems to make sense for HOU, which is getting Melo for a negative value Anderson and some not very impressive assets (because they really dont have futures to trade).
we should start a running list of all the players who got less money than Baker.
woj said yesterday that the knicks and rockets feel confident they have a 3 team bit there is one player that neither wants and they are looking for a 4th team...
everyone assunes it is portland and leonard is the player no one wants
There is a possible 4 way deal that involves Portland and New Orleans, if each team is willing to take a risk.
Suppose the Knicks send Melo to Houston and Lee to Portland.
Portland sends Harkless, Ezeli, Davis and Vonleh to the Knicks with a 1st rounder.
Houston sends Anderson and Gordon to N.O. and Ariza to the Knicks.
New Orleans sends Cousins to Houston and Asik to Portland.
Obviously, some filler all around would be required to make salaries match.
For Houston, it would be a massive gamble that Melo, Cousins, Paul and Harden can co-exist- but on paper, that is a team that could legitimately contend in the West- while still having a decent bench.
For the Knicks, outside of a 1st rounder, they aren't getting much- if any- in player value for Melo or Lee. However, they would get a fistful of expiring deals and some cap relief.
For New Orleans, they aren't getting much of a return on Cousins- but they might have trouble signing him in FA anyway. They would add two outside scorers would could better space the floor for Davis and give Holiday options to distribute. They would not be a contender, but might be more balanced and competitive in the West.
Portland gets not very much talent for what amounts to 4 bench players- but they would get some minor cap relief. They could extend the cap relief even more if they could slide say, Leonard for Moore from N.O. It would also allow them to market CJ McCollum for some real 3-4 spot talent.
It isn't a perfect trade for any of the teams, and all would assume some degree of risk, with only Houston having obvious upside. However, each team has holes and issues- and this at least tries to address those issues for all.
I get the idea. But the Knicks need to tank. And after all of the shit that has gone on. The Knicks and melo need this relationship to end. He has to be gone come training camp
This is a chance to start fresh and grow some chemistry between young guys
(Frank,thj,porz,Gomez). Also to build what hornacek wants in place.
If you keep melo you just keep the media on top of the trade rumors and keep the ball stopper who doesn't help develop anyone. Add in that melo will hurt the ability to tank by having his nights of 35 points and it's just not smart to keep him
"Leonard is absolutely awful. Low IQ, great body, that's about it"
I can't claim I've watched him enough to comment on his IQ but when I've seen him play he looks jacked but that's all you notice. He sucks. Please no.
POR or HOU or whoever would have to be throwing a couple more assets are way for me to take on Leonard.
Quote:
sources say that Portland is even in the deal other than Jsports a week ago but he also said yesterday he doesn't know if that's the current framework. It seems like he said that and then all the Tommy Dee's of the world started to throw Portland in there and guess that it's close or done to claim credit and now it has become assumed that Portland is in there. They makes sense as a third time but I don't think they have any higher likelihood of being in the deal as say the Pelicans, Suns or Denver does.
woj said yesterday that the knicks and rockets feel confident they have a 3 team bit there is one player that neither wants and they are looking for a 4th team...
everyone assunes it is portland and leonard is the player no one wants
That's what I was saying. Seems like everyone is just assuming that's the case. I also wouldn't be surprised if that deal fell apart because of Leonard and they gained traction the past two days on a different trade (maybe involving the Pelicans). Just reading between the lines after I can remember who but some reporter wrote that it seemed like talks had stalled over the weekend and then picked up on Tuesday.
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Sources: The San Antonio Spurs have renounced guard Jonathon Simmons, making him an unrestricted free agent.
Glad we have no money left.
I'm hopeful that the trade is not actually Anderson based for this reason. Anderson and pieces for Melo is a gift to the Rockets.
THJR is a better player.