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NFT: Matt Harvey's Right Shoulder Muscle half the size of his lef

CMicks3110 : 7/12/2017 9:14 pm
t shoulder

thought this was interesting AND damning of the Mets training staff. If this is true, WTF, how do the trainers not check for this stuff.

Quote:
that the procedure left Harvey with weakness in the muscles behind his throwing shoulder, which led to problems as he tried to pitch during the first half. Only after Harvey went on the disabled list did doctors discover that the muscles behind his right shoulder were roughly half the size of those on his left, Warthen said.

“It totally atrophied,” he said. “He didn’t have the strength to maintain, so his bullpens wouldn’t be good. The first inning would be good and then all of a sudden that thing wouldn’t work, it wouldn’t fire. That’s been the whole thing. We’ve been building that back up the whole time.”

http://thebiglead.com/2017/07/12/muscles-in-matt-harveys-throwing-shoulder-half-the-size-of-his-other-shoulder-which-sounds-bad/ - ( New Window )
.  
arcarsenal : 7/12/2017 9:18 pm : link
More evidence in a pile up to the moon at this point that the Mets need to get rid of this entire fucking training staff. They're going to ruin half these young players.

If I were a young kid being drafted or a FA, this is one of the last teams I'd ever want to play for.
I have to ask how the hell this happens.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/12/2017 9:23 pm : link
.
Extended ST  
spike : 7/12/2017 9:25 pm : link
Is what most of us suggested for him at the start of season
Generation K  
spike : 7/12/2017 9:26 pm : link
Deja vu all over again
This is an example of why players should consider getting  
steve in ky : 7/12/2017 9:27 pm : link
a second opinion from a doctor of their choosing.
Harvey  
GF1080 : 7/12/2017 9:28 pm : link
Our doctors are some of the best in the world at Hospital for Special Surgery. Something just doesn't make sense here.
RE: Harvey  
Vanzetti : 7/13/2017 1:06 am : link
In comment 13526829 GF1080 said:
Quote:
Our doctors are some of the best in the world at Hospital for Special Surgery. Something just doesn't make sense here.


Mets doctors pay to be official team doctors. So what does that tell you? Plus, just because a guy has built a big practice, does not mean he is s great doctor for athletes. Building a practice requires marketing and business skills. No doubt Dr Altcheck has those. But the Mets injury history tells you the players are not always getting the right treatment . Remember when they put Ike Davis in a boot and cut off the blood flow to his ankle resulting in permanent damage. Basically ruined his career.'Beltran refused to be treated by their doctors.

Now we don't know how much of that is the doctors and how much the organization, But something clearly is not right
MEts problem is one that sadly cannot be removed: OWNERSHIP  
Victor in CT : 7/13/2017 8:46 am : link
The Wilpons are assholes.
This doesnt make any sense  
Deej : 7/13/2017 9:21 am : link
I thought the reason Harvey struggled is that he doesnt sit at home in shame enough.
The TOS  
pjcas18 : 7/13/2017 10:16 am : link
surgery on Harvey was performed by Dr. Robert Thompson, a TOS specialist from St. Louis who has performed the surgery on numerous athletes.

He's supposed to the the Dr. James Andrews of TOS.

I am sure the Mets training staff and team doctors are awful, but I'm not so sure a smaller muscle behind his left shoulder is on the trainers vs the specialist who performed the surgery and generally is responsible for after care and checkups.
our rehab specialists  
spike : 7/13/2017 10:21 am : link
and trainers are dreadful.
How did they not see this  
Metnut : 7/13/2017 10:30 am : link
until after he was on the DL? You'd think that with him throwing in the low 90s and even high 80s at times in the spring and early in the season they'd be looking at everything possible structurally to see what was wrong.
RE: The TOS  
arcarsenal : 7/13/2017 10:42 am : link
In comment 13527024 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
surgery on Harvey was performed by Dr. Robert Thompson, a TOS specialist from St. Louis who has performed the surgery on numerous athletes.

He's supposed to the the Dr. James Andrews of TOS.

I am sure the Mets training staff and team doctors are awful, but I'm not so sure a smaller muscle behind his left shoulder is on the trainers vs the specialist who performed the surgery and generally is responsible for after care and checkups.


The point is - how did this go unnoticed until now?
RE: RE: The TOS  
pjcas18 : 7/13/2017 10:51 am : link
In comment 13527049 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13527024 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


surgery on Harvey was performed by Dr. Robert Thompson, a TOS specialist from St. Louis who has performed the surgery on numerous athletes.

He's supposed to the the Dr. James Andrews of TOS.

I am sure the Mets training staff and team doctors are awful, but I'm not so sure a smaller muscle behind his left shoulder is on the trainers vs the specialist who performed the surgery and generally is responsible for after care and checkups.



The point is - how did this go unnoticed until now?


I don't know, and my point is none of us do either.

I think as little of the Mets training staff and team doctors as the rest of you, but finding a muscle behind his shoulder that is smaller on one side than other is not something I'm comfortable with my medical knowledge placing blame on a specific person or role.

maybe it's the team trainers who should notice this or check it, maybe it's the team doctors, or maybe as I mentioned it's something the surgeon (who was not a team doctor) should check on or instruct those people working on his rehab to check for.
RE: RE: The TOS  
Deej : 7/13/2017 11:13 am : link
In comment 13527049 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13527024 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


surgery on Harvey was performed by Dr. Robert Thompson, a TOS specialist from St. Louis who has performed the surgery on numerous athletes.

He's supposed to the the Dr. James Andrews of TOS.

I am sure the Mets training staff and team doctors are awful, but I'm not so sure a smaller muscle behind his left shoulder is on the trainers vs the specialist who performed the surgery and generally is responsible for after care and checkups.



The point is - how did this go unnoticed until now?


Is it something that is visible to the eye, or do you need to measure muscle size on an x-ray/scan? Moreover, maybe some amount of fluctuation is just normal, as guys work out, rest, pitch more/less, change diet etc. Is it really half the size or is that just a figure of speech?
.  
arcarsenal : 7/13/2017 11:18 am : link
I have no idea - I don't have enough medical knowledge to understand how this is diagnosed.

All I'm saying is, I think it has been obvious for a pretty long time now that something was wrong with Harvey. We could all see it. The velo would diminish from the first inning on and he basically hasn't looked right since the World Series.

I just have a hard time believing that it should have taken this long to figure out he had this issue. But maybe I'm way off.

I have zero faith in this training staff, personally - so, right or wrong, I tend to believe they are probably at least partially to blame in some capacity.
any imbalance in  
well...bye TC : 7/13/2017 12:18 pm : link
muscle size or strength ratio would be immediately discernable to even the most newbie PT let alone a sports ortho or surgeon etc. Hell even a good personal trainer would know within one session. Something is very much missing in this story.
RE: any imbalance in  
pjcas18 : 7/13/2017 12:26 pm : link
In comment 13527170 well...bye TC said:
Quote:
muscle size or strength ratio would be immediately discernable to even the most newbie PT let alone a sports ortho or surgeon etc. Hell even a good personal trainer would know within one session. Something is very much missing in this story.


What do you base your post on? Are you a PT or an athletic trainer?
RE: RE: any imbalance in  
well...bye TC : 7/13/2017 12:32 pm : link
In comment 13527189 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13527170 well...bye TC said:


Quote:


muscle size or strength ratio would be immediately discernable to even the most newbie PT let alone a sports ortho or surgeon etc. Hell even a good personal trainer would know within one session. Something is very much missing in this story.



What do you base your post on? Are you a PT or an athletic trainer?

Certified personal and athletic trainer 20 yrs.
RE: RE: RE: any imbalance in  
pjcas18 : 7/13/2017 12:41 pm : link
In comment 13527198 well...bye TC said:
Quote:
In comment 13527189 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 13527170 well...bye TC said:


Quote:


muscle size or strength ratio would be immediately discernable to even the most newbie PT let alone a sports ortho or surgeon etc. Hell even a good personal trainer would know within one session. Something is very much missing in this story.



What do you base your post on? Are you a PT or an athletic trainer?


Certified personal and athletic trainer 20 yrs.


Interesting, my wife is a sports medicine PT for 15 years and she said unless the patient reported pain, discomfort, or couldn't do remedial strengthening exercises a PT would probably not know about the difference in muscle size. Especially not knowing really how the size difference impacted testing strength.

She said the PT orders come from the surgeon, PT's report their progress back to the surgeon and the surgeon decides when to discharge from PT.

Most of the strengthening exercises done during PT are not "max out" weight training rather repetition of low weights to build back strength in the area, they do use both shoulders she said for comparison, but based on the strength of the smaller muscle, the differentiation may not have been noticeable at all to a PT.

anyway, just her opinion. I have no choice but to trust her opinion, LOL, but I also realize it's not exact and there are variables in play.
everything she said  
well...bye TC : 7/13/2017 12:55 pm : link
is correct. The size itself is not relelvant and would be difficult to see unless dramatic in a large muscle (ie a posterior deltoid). Generally diagnostics and movement screens will pick up a weakness in tho interms of ratio imbalance.
that being said  
well...bye TC : 7/13/2017 1:01 pm : link
the shoulder is a very complex joint with a number of smaller muscles that often arent worked in a basic s&c program. It does seem unusual to me at least that everyone down the chain would miss something this pronounced, at least as it is presented here.
RE: that being said  
pjcas18 : 7/13/2017 1:31 pm : link
In comment 13527257 well...bye TC said:
Quote:
the shoulder is a very complex joint with a number of smaller muscles that often arent worked in a basic s&c program. It does seem unusual to me at least that everyone down the chain would miss something this pronounced, at least as it is presented here.


I agree, it sounds crazy, but I don't know how muscle size manifests itself for pitchers, most pitchers, like say Pedro Martinez, are not muscular. Pedro threw mid-90's but it wasn't because of his shoulder muscles. Curt Schilling admittedly never worked out until Roger Clemens shamed him into it. He was doughy. Harvey's velocity if you look at his pitchfx averaged pretty close to where it was pre-injury.

I believe the Mets handling of injuries has been awful, from the FO/MGR reporting of them to the seemingly too quick to return attempts that cause worse injuries and I'd even buy some misdiagnoses, I'm just not sure this particular injury gets pinned on anyone. Seems obscure to me.


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