t shoulder
thought this was interesting AND damning of the Mets training staff. If this is true, WTF, how do the trainers not check for this stuff.
that the procedure left Harvey with weakness in the muscles behind his throwing shoulder, which led to problems as he tried to pitch during the first half. Only after Harvey went on the disabled list did doctors discover that the muscles behind his right shoulder were roughly half the size of those on his left, Warthen said.
“It totally atrophied,” he said. “He didn’t have the strength to maintain, so his bullpens wouldn’t be good. The first inning would be good and then all of a sudden that thing wouldn’t work, it wouldn’t fire. That’s been the whole thing. We’ve been building that back up the whole time.”
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http://thebiglead.com/2017/07/12/muscles-in-matt-harveys-throwing-shoulder-half-the-size-of-his-other-shoulder-which-sounds-bad/ - (
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If I were a young kid being drafted or a FA, this is one of the last teams I'd ever want to play for.
Mets doctors pay to be official team doctors. So what does that tell you? Plus, just because a guy has built a big practice, does not mean he is s great doctor for athletes. Building a practice requires marketing and business skills. No doubt Dr Altcheck has those. But the Mets injury history tells you the players are not always getting the right treatment . Remember when they put Ike Davis in a boot and cut off the blood flow to his ankle resulting in permanent damage. Basically ruined his career.'Beltran refused to be treated by their doctors.
Now we don't know how much of that is the doctors and how much the organization, But something clearly is not right
He's supposed to the the Dr. James Andrews of TOS.
I am sure the Mets training staff and team doctors are awful, but I'm not so sure a smaller muscle behind his left shoulder is on the trainers vs the specialist who performed the surgery and generally is responsible for after care and checkups.
He's supposed to the the Dr. James Andrews of TOS.
I am sure the Mets training staff and team doctors are awful, but I'm not so sure a smaller muscle behind his left shoulder is on the trainers vs the specialist who performed the surgery and generally is responsible for after care and checkups.
The point is - how did this go unnoticed until now?
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surgery on Harvey was performed by Dr. Robert Thompson, a TOS specialist from St. Louis who has performed the surgery on numerous athletes.
He's supposed to the the Dr. James Andrews of TOS.
I am sure the Mets training staff and team doctors are awful, but I'm not so sure a smaller muscle behind his left shoulder is on the trainers vs the specialist who performed the surgery and generally is responsible for after care and checkups.
The point is - how did this go unnoticed until now?
I don't know, and my point is none of us do either.
I think as little of the Mets training staff and team doctors as the rest of you, but finding a muscle behind his shoulder that is smaller on one side than other is not something I'm comfortable with my medical knowledge placing blame on a specific person or role.
maybe it's the team trainers who should notice this or check it, maybe it's the team doctors, or maybe as I mentioned it's something the surgeon (who was not a team doctor) should check on or instruct those people working on his rehab to check for.
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surgery on Harvey was performed by Dr. Robert Thompson, a TOS specialist from St. Louis who has performed the surgery on numerous athletes.
He's supposed to the the Dr. James Andrews of TOS.
I am sure the Mets training staff and team doctors are awful, but I'm not so sure a smaller muscle behind his left shoulder is on the trainers vs the specialist who performed the surgery and generally is responsible for after care and checkups.
The point is - how did this go unnoticed until now?
Is it something that is visible to the eye, or do you need to measure muscle size on an x-ray/scan? Moreover, maybe some amount of fluctuation is just normal, as guys work out, rest, pitch more/less, change diet etc. Is it really half the size or is that just a figure of speech?
All I'm saying is, I think it has been obvious for a pretty long time now that something was wrong with Harvey. We could all see it. The velo would diminish from the first inning on and he basically hasn't looked right since the World Series.
I just have a hard time believing that it should have taken this long to figure out he had this issue. But maybe I'm way off.
I have zero faith in this training staff, personally - so, right or wrong, I tend to believe they are probably at least partially to blame in some capacity.
What do you base your post on? Are you a PT or an athletic trainer?
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muscle size or strength ratio would be immediately discernable to even the most newbie PT let alone a sports ortho or surgeon etc. Hell even a good personal trainer would know within one session. Something is very much missing in this story.
What do you base your post on? Are you a PT or an athletic trainer?
Certified personal and athletic trainer 20 yrs.
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In comment 13527170 well...bye TC said:
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muscle size or strength ratio would be immediately discernable to even the most newbie PT let alone a sports ortho or surgeon etc. Hell even a good personal trainer would know within one session. Something is very much missing in this story.
What do you base your post on? Are you a PT or an athletic trainer?
Certified personal and athletic trainer 20 yrs.
Interesting, my wife is a sports medicine PT for 15 years and she said unless the patient reported pain, discomfort, or couldn't do remedial strengthening exercises a PT would probably not know about the difference in muscle size. Especially not knowing really how the size difference impacted testing strength.
She said the PT orders come from the surgeon, PT's report their progress back to the surgeon and the surgeon decides when to discharge from PT.
Most of the strengthening exercises done during PT are not "max out" weight training rather repetition of low weights to build back strength in the area, they do use both shoulders she said for comparison, but based on the strength of the smaller muscle, the differentiation may not have been noticeable at all to a PT.
anyway, just her opinion. I have no choice but to trust her opinion, LOL, but I also realize it's not exact and there are variables in play.
I agree, it sounds crazy, but I don't know how muscle size manifests itself for pitchers, most pitchers, like say Pedro Martinez, are not muscular. Pedro threw mid-90's but it wasn't because of his shoulder muscles. Curt Schilling admittedly never worked out until Roger Clemens shamed him into it. He was doughy. Harvey's velocity if you look at his pitchfx averaged pretty close to where it was pre-injury.
I believe the Mets handling of injuries has been awful, from the FO/MGR reporting of them to the seemingly too quick to return attempts that cause worse injuries and I'd even buy some misdiagnoses, I'm just not sure this particular injury gets pinned on anyone. Seems obscure to me.