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NFT: Cubs acquire Quintana for top prospects Jimenez, Cease

Dunedin81 : 7/13/2017 11:28 am
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#WhiteSox have acquired OF Eloy Jiménez, RHP Dylan Cease, 1B Matt Rose & INF Bryant Flete from the Cubs in exchange for LHP José Quintana.
MLB Radio was suggesting the Yanks would pursue Quintana...  
Dunedin81 : 7/13/2017 11:32 am : link
or Sonny Gray but wouldn't give up Frazier or Torres. This is giving up one of them and then throwing in a Chance Adams or a Justus Sheffield for good measure.
Quintana  
DanMetroMan : 7/13/2017 11:33 am : link
is underrated with a great contract but I love it for the White Sox.
great deal for the Cubs  
feelflows : 7/13/2017 11:39 am : link
Quintana to the Cubs gives them a good lefty starter, and keeps him away from the Brewers.

Prospects are just that. This is not just a way to improve the team NOW, but for the three years after at a great contract.

Very smart move by Theo.
Eloy  
DanMetroMan : 7/13/2017 11:43 am : link
is a top 5-10 prospect in the game, Cease has 1-2 starter upside. Pointed out to me by someone else but the Cubs have been oddly thrifty since winning the WS considering the extra revenue and market. Likely explains "overvaluing" Quintana.
Dunedin81  
Jay in Toronto : 7/13/2017 11:44 am : link
I know this is a tough question, but what might the Yankee comparables been to what the Cubs gave up?
Cubs just parted..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/13/2017 11:45 am : link
with two very high prospects to try and make up a significant deficit to win the division. It really isn't that smart a move for them, and it weakens their farm.
Even hurt, Torres is in the same category...  
Dunedin81 : 7/13/2017 11:46 am : link
Frazier slightly below but same ballpark. For pitching, Cease is a back end of the top 100 guy, analogous to maybe Chance Adams or Sheffield but with a few prospect guys who like him a lot more.
Gleybor  
DanMetroMan : 7/13/2017 11:47 am : link
Torres would have had to be part of any Yankee package that "beat" this. Torres and Adams would likely be the headliners of a Yankee deal.
For  
DanMetroMan : 7/13/2017 11:50 am : link
what it's worth BA's most recent list had Jimenez #5, Cease 83, Torres 3, Frazier 49, Adams 56. Rose and Flete are filler.
I have zero objection to trading prospects...  
Dunedin81 : 7/13/2017 11:52 am : link
it's a question of value and opportunity cost. Quintana is a good pitcher on a great contract. It is Hamels in the sense that it's not just for this year. But could a package centered around Jimenez have gotten someone better than Quintana? Or could a lesser package have landed someone like JV, and still left you plenty to address needs later?
RE: I have zero objection to trading prospects...  
DanMetroMan : 7/13/2017 11:53 am : link
In comment 13527133 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
it's a question of value and opportunity cost. Quintana is a good pitcher on a great contract. It is Hamels in the sense that it's not just for this year. But could a package centered around Jimenez have gotten someone better than Quintana? Or could a lesser package have landed someone like JV, and still left you plenty to address needs later?


Quintana isn't a guy who I would be overly excited over pitching game one or 2 of a playoff series. He's quite solid (and I've defended him many times) but Jimenez seems like a chip you give up for an ace. Maybe aces aren't available but the Cubs may regret this move.
DMM  
pjcas18 : 7/13/2017 11:58 am : link
would you trade deGrom for Jimenez?

obviously it's hypotehtical now, but if the opportunity presents itself (with the Yankees say and a Torres) would you trade deGrom for him?
I am so glad that he was finally traded  
Jay on the Island : 7/13/2017 12:01 pm : link
The Braves were once again rumored to be interested in him and they would have had to give up Acuna and Allard for him which they would have regretted in 2-3 years.
RE: I have zero objection to trading prospects...  
feelflows : 7/13/2017 12:02 pm : link
In comment 13527133 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
it's a question of value and opportunity cost. Quintana is a good pitcher on a great contract. It is Hamels in the sense that it's not just for this year. But could a package centered around Jimenez have gotten someone better than Quintana? Or could a lesser package have landed someone like JV, and still left you plenty to address needs later?


Dunedin.. I agree..but the Hamels trade is a great example.

The big prospect the Phillies got back was Jake Thompson, who hasn't panned out. He was supposed to be a stud. Eikhoff (sp?) did OK last year, but he too has been horrid this year.

"overpaying" with prospects is a lot different that overpaying with known entities.
RE: DMM  
DanMetroMan : 7/13/2017 12:04 pm : link
In comment 13527139 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
would you trade deGrom for Jimenez?

obviously it's hypotehtical now, but if the opportunity presents itself (with the Yankees say and a Torres) would you trade deGrom for him?


I think the Mets are going to try and "forget" this season and try and contend next season again but in a theoretical "value" situation I think it's a little light (DeGrom is better than Quintana with more years of control) but I do really like Jimenez. I think he's a potential star.
Savvy move (as usual)  
Metnut : 7/13/2017 12:04 pm : link
by the Cubs. They give up two prospects in order to 3.5 years of a proven really good MLB pitcher. I like it from the White Sox pov too.
Beane  
DanMetroMan : 7/13/2017 12:06 pm : link
has to be happy, bidding war for Sonny Gray likely about to break out.
I believe that there were rumors...  
LarmerTJR : 7/13/2017 12:06 pm : link
lats year that the Cubs let the Yanks pick from Torres or Jimenez to headline the Chapman deal. Not 100% sure, but I think I remember hearing that theory floated around.
RE: I believe that there were rumors...  
DanMetroMan : 7/13/2017 12:08 pm : link
In comment 13527150 LarmerTJR said:
Quote:
lats year that the Cubs let the Yanks pick from Torres or Jimenez to headline the Chapman deal. Not 100% sure, but I think I remember hearing that theory floated around.


Pretty much accepted as fact
Some  
DanMetroMan : 7/13/2017 12:10 pm : link
whispers of teams engaging the Blue Jays in a mega-deal.
Look  
mdthedream : 7/13/2017 12:11 pm : link
the Cubs are a World Series team and they want to get back there again.They also got a guy that is cheap salary wise and if they want can trade him for a lot of young guys after. I see it as a win win for the Cubs. White Sox get young talent for the future so its good for them as well.
.  
pjcas18 : 7/13/2017 12:13 pm : link
Quote:
Daren Willman‏Verified account @darenw 4m4 minutes ago

Players that have hit a ball 119.4 MPH+ recorded by @statcast in the last calendar year

Judge
Stanton
Jimenez (in the @MLBazFallLeague)
RE: Some  
Greg from LI : 7/13/2017 12:14 pm : link
In comment 13527155 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
whispers of teams engaging the Blue Jays in a mega-deal.

With the Jays as buyers or sellers? Could see an argument either way.
RE: RE: Some  
DanMetroMan : 7/13/2017 12:16 pm : link
In comment 13527160 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13527155 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


whispers of teams engaging the Blue Jays in a mega-deal.


With the Jays as buyers or sellers? Could see an argument either way.


The rumor is as sellers but who knows how true?
Do the Jays really blow it up?  
LarmerTJR : 7/13/2017 12:24 pm : link
I know Batista is a one year deal and easy to move, but to they sell Donaldson? He still has an arb year left, granted it will be expensive. Tulo is over paid for like 4 more years. Stroman goes to arb again and will be getting raises...Liriano?
If the Blue Jays are blowing it  
Metnut : 7/13/2017 12:28 pm : link
up they should be willing to move Osuna too. Relievers can be fickle and trading him at peak value could be a great way to jump start a rebuild.
Osuna has been awesome, but, two things...  
LarmerTJR : 7/13/2017 12:30 pm : link
1.) He's only 22.
2.) The metal health issue from earlier this year may limit the expected return, right or wrong, so it might be better value to keep the 22 lights out closer.
Why wouldn't they blow it up?  
Greg from LI : 7/13/2017 12:31 pm : link
This group had their window and it looks pretty firmly closed now. Bautista is 36, Donaldson 31, Smoak 30, Martin 34, Morales 34, Tulowiztki 32, Happ 34. Not much in the way of promising youngsters at the moment. IF I were the Jays, I'd have everyone other than Stroman, Sanchez, and Osuna on the block.
Bautista can go until..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/13/2017 12:34 pm : link
he's 75 with all the chemicals he's pumping in his body.
Cubs absolutely  
ChicagoMarty : 7/13/2017 12:34 pm : link
had to bolster their starting pitching if they are to make a run THIS year.

Cubs have a young roster and lineup overall which would limit the liklihood that the prospects would have much impact anytime soon.

Cubs expect their current lineup to improve run production and I think that is a realistic expectation.

Hendricks should be back in a week or two to further bolster starting pitching. Bullpen is decent.

Lackey may have to take a seat. Lester and Arrieta absolutely have to pitch better. Really no reason not to.

Surprised about a cross town trade but Sox did the right thing. They are going no where. Why not bring in some prospects. Theo showed them the way. Going with youth works if the talent is there.

Lets see if Cubs hitting improves second half. Its not too late
Feel like the Cubs  
Phil in LA : 7/13/2017 12:36 pm : link
overpaid. I don't think there was anyone avaiable this deadline that was worth that package.
RE: Beane  
JoeMoney19 : 7/13/2017 12:39 pm : link
In comment 13527149 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
has to be happy, bidding war for Sonny Gray likely about to break out.

Except when was the last time Beane actually made a good "mega" deal? He got killed on the Lester and Donaldson trades.
Cubs  
DanMetroMan : 7/13/2017 12:39 pm : link
apparently "checked in" on DeGrom (among others) before making this deal
Price was high  
ChicagoMarty : 7/13/2017 12:41 pm : link
but Cubs can afford it.

They currently have young talent at every position. They don't even have room in their everyday lineup for Almora and Baez.

If they didn't secure better starting pitching they were done for THIS year.

Price was worth it imo if they get back in the chase.
RE: RE: Beane  
DanMetroMan : 7/13/2017 12:42 pm : link
In comment 13527208 JoeMoney19 said:
Quote:
In comment 13527149 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


has to be happy, bidding war for Sonny Gray likely about to break out.


Except when was the last time Beane actually made a good "mega" deal? He got killed on the Lester and Donaldson trades.


Doesn't really have to make a "megadeal" to realize there isn't much inventory available so with Quintana off the market Gray's price should go up. I wasn't even complimenting Beane, just think those with SP available are happy right now.
glad  
Steve in Greenwich : 7/13/2017 12:42 pm : link
the Cubs did it so that the Yankees wont. Wanted nothing to do with trading for him. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a great pitcher, but the Yankees should never be in a situation where they need to overpay on talent in order to acquire a bargain contract. I get the luxury tax, and by no means am I ever the one who thinks the Yankees should go out and buy all the top free agents, but they still are the Yankees and should never have to make trades where they give additional talent to get lower dollar amounts on contracts.
RE: Why wouldn't they blow it up?  
Stu11 : 7/13/2017 12:43 pm : link
In comment 13527196 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
This group had their window and it looks pretty firmly closed now. Bautista is 36, Donaldson 31, Smoak 30, Martin 34, Morales 34, Tulowiztki 32, Happ 34. Not much in the way of promising youngsters at the moment. IF I were the Jays, I'd have everyone other than Stroman, Sanchez, and Osuna on the block.

This
Stroman is probably their biggest and best chip...  
Dunedin81 : 7/13/2017 12:51 pm : link
Donaldson would bring a significant return, Smoak would bring a significant one but the brief duration of his success would limit that. Stroman could land a monster return. Who is taking on Tulo right now? Bautista? A lot of dead weight on that team. Maybe move Happ and Estrada, certainly Osuna could go, but the biggest package is going to come from Stroman.
But Stroman's only 24 or 25  
Greg from LI : 7/13/2017 12:58 pm : link
I'd rather keep him and try to build around him.
Sure  
PaulN : 7/13/2017 1:21 pm : link
He was on a great contract, but the guy is nowhere near an ace! Thank goodness the yanks passed, I am certain they would have asked for Frazier and Adams. No way am I doing that for a 2 or 3 starter, no way.
Frazier and Adams  
arniefez : 7/13/2017 1:37 pm : link
May never have more value to the Yankees than they do right now. Phil Hughes was going to be Tom Seaver when he was in AA & AAA. Joba was going to be Don Drysdale. Quintana is a top 20 pitcher in MLB probably top 10 in the NL. Cubs are loaded with young position players. Seems like a smart move. On the other side the White Sox are building quite a system for the future.
Keep the kids  
PaulN : 7/13/2017 1:58 pm : link
Play them and evaluate your young talent, that is what the Yanks need to do, but the impatience is already growing. Their value may be nowhere near what it will be in a year or two also, your argument is flawed, badly flawed and Quintana is no ace pitcher, he is a 2 or 3 starter, and no more, you don't give up Frazier or Torres for this guy, no way! I am glad Cashman is running things and not some impatient and spoiled fans.
Yanks and WS  
old man : 7/13/2017 3:40 pm : link
have picked up lots of highly rated prospects from last offseason and up to the moment, and SFG already said they are 'open for business'
Obviously not this deal, but airlines will be happy because it looks like lots of players will be changing locations.
The Yankees stink at evaluating their own talent  
arniefez : 7/13/2017 5:53 pm : link
Has been a major weakness of Cashman's for a decade. You do realize the guy who was traded today was given away by Cashman for nothing right?
RE: The Yankees stink at evaluating their own talent  
rich in DC : 7/13/2017 6:18 pm : link
In comment 13527632 arniefez said:
Quote:
Has been a major weakness of Cashman's for a decade. You do realize the guy who was traded today was given away by Cashman for nothing right?


Once again, WRONG.

Quintana was a minor league FA that the Yanks had at AA. The White Sox were smart enough to offer him a major league contract- adding him to the 40 man roster. The Yanks simply did not have an open spot on their 40 man roster.

Such is FA. So, once again, MASSIVE FAIL on your part. But don't let that stop you from continuing to display your ignorance- it hasn't in the past.
Brother in law is a huge Cubs fan.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/13/2017 7:10 pm : link
Asked him about the trade...he likes it, especially since Quintana is under team control through the 2020 season. He didn't like giving up Jimenez, but he said they're a win now team and 5.5 back of Milwaukee, who they apparently play a lot more games against, isn't insurmountable.
The Braves were reportedly very involved  
Jay on the Island : 7/13/2017 7:43 pm : link
until the end. The trade broke down after Atlanta refused to part with CF Ronald Acuna.
Great Pitcher  
PaulN : 7/13/2017 9:24 pm : link
4-8 with a 4.5 ERA and we are talking about him like a Cy Young award winner, like I said, he is at best a 2 or 3 starter, and this season a horrible one, glad we did not pursue him. Your opinion of Cashman is so pathetic that it does not warrant a response.
BA HA HA..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/13/2017 9:38 pm : link
Quote:
The Yankees stink at evaluating their own talent
arniefez : 5:53 pm : link : reply
Has been a major weakness of Cashman's for a decade. You do realize the guy who was traded today was given away by Cashman for nothing right?


Excellent timing with this comment seeing that the Yanks lineup has pretty much been dominated by the young guys the past year and a half.

what the fuck?
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