NFT: Knicks Chat 7/14/2017- One Stop Shopping

be pretty soul crushing if this Perry deal doesn't go through.

I get the Lonzo and DSJ hype, but Lonzo shot 6-20 and DSJ seems to be a bit of a ball hog if you watch the highlights. Still excited for Frank.

not Knick related but people are praising Bender saying he looks much improved

-Linked below a scouting report on Zhou Qi (someone many of us have mentioned as hopefully piece of a Melo deal)
Link - ( New Window )

Pausing Melo talks is NOT #LOLKNICKS, It's a reset, which makes perfect sense with a new GM (hopefully) about to come on board.

To me pausing Melo talks is a negotiating ploy where they are going to try to squeeze more out of the Rockets.

Also I've been told from someone with knowledge if the trade does go through there is no chance that Qi will be involved & that the Rockets consider him untouchable. I hope the person who told me that is wrong, but I've also seen that Jsports_ent guy on Twitter mention something similar.

falls through. Its just money which is the one area that Dolan has not let down Knick fans.

As for the pause on the trade. This is a smart move. If for no other reason then out of respect for the guy you just convinced to come to this circus and be the GM. Let him take a look at everything. The convince melo to stay part is obviously BS to try to get some more leverage, but hey its worth a shot.

In comment 13527957 Big Rick in FL said:

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To me pausing Melo talks is a negotiating ploy where they are going to try to squeeze more out of the Rockets. Also I've been told from someone with knowledge if the trade does go through there is no chance that Qi will be involved & that the Rockets consider him untouchable. I hope the person who told me that is wrong, but I've also seen that Jsports_ent guy on Twitter mention something similar.

That's basically the crux of the Melo issue. The Rockets young chips (Qi and Hartenstein) aren't amazing chips to begin with and with the Rockets according to many (including you) not making Qi available there isn't enough on the table to be in any rush to make a move. Qi isn't exactly some can't miss stud, he's not even a guaranteed NBA rotation player.

he isnt some big name retread. Now will we let him make the basketball decisions, who knows, probably not. That said it seems like everyone is praising the hire.

In comment 13527959 Italianju said:

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falls through. Its just money which is the one area that Dolan has not let down Knick fans. As for the pause on the trade. This is a smart move. If for no other reason then out of respect for the guy you just convinced to come to this circus and be the GM. Let him take a look at everything. The convince melo to stay part is obviously BS to try to get some more leverage, but hey its worth a shot.

We obviously don't know what has been discussed but on paper even the best young chips (Qi and Osman) aren't so outstanding that pausing talks is going to hurt us (and if anything since these guys just signed in theory they become "more" available if we wait). One injury and more contenders might inquire. Can't take back trash like Meyers Leonard without getting multiple picks. That's the going rate.

but if HOU doesnt want to include assets like Qi then why are we making the deal. Instead of having to worry about andersons contract and leonards contract or any other shit contract heading our way we can just trade him to CLE for expirings and Osman or whatever. Then hope you can spin shump/frye for something during the year. A playoff team might give you a young kid at the end of the bench or a euro stash for them come deadline time. And at worst you just let them expire and move on.

morey cares about what Harden or Paul have to say. But now that they are expecting to add Melo it would be funny to be in the room to hear Morey tell them that Melo is going to CLE because he wouldnt part with Qi.

think I'm pro signing Jennings at this point. Played pretty well with KP, hated the triangle which caused his release. He's 100% nothing special at all but he might do reasonably well in Hornacek's faster guard oriented offense. My wishlist

Rondo (until he signs)
Sergio (until he signs)
Jennings
Lawson
Deron






Rose

the Wizards might emerge as a potential destination for Melo at some point.

been a Hartenstein advocate but lets not forget the fact he just went 43rd overall in the draft. That doesn't mean he can't develop but that was his perceived value 3 weeks ago. He'd be a fine "get" but that's not a headliner. That's a solid project.

I think they may just want to start building around KP, Willy & Frank. Hopefully get some draft picks back and go all in on the tank. Hope for Porter/Doncic. If we keep Melo we will be at the same place we were this year. Missing out on guys like Fultz/Ball/Jackson/Tatum. I'm sure Houston knows that we want to tank so we don't have as much leverage. IMO it's an absolute must to get rid of Melo. If he isn't willing to waive his NTC I doubt our deal gets any better at the trade deadline. Houston & Cleveland might not be willing to do a deal at the deadline. In that case we're even worse off as Melo stays for the whole year. We end up drafting around 8th overall and then Melo walks for nothing.

i wasnt saying dont trade him. I was saying trade him to CLE now instead of HOU since at least CLE can give you expirings. The issue with deals with HOU is they have to include Andersons disaster of a deal.

I'm pretty sure Morey cares a lot about what Harden/Paul want. The NBA is a star driven league. The stars run the team. He has to keep them happy. From what I've heard (I've also seen this from others online) D'Antoni doesn't want Melo so that just shows the pull that Harden/CP3 have.

is he healthy. I liked his game for awhile, but the last two years he has been pretty much MIA. Also wish we had offered the Baker deal to Ian Clark, at least he has some upside. I really hate most of these PG's that are out there outside of Rondo and i guess sergio based on the fit. Since those guys are basically off the board id almost rather go with a Tyler Ennis or something then a guy like Lawson or Jennings. I know we want a "vet" but i dont think we really need one.

he cares what they think. Which makes me think it would be quite the risk to lose Melo when your two superstars (one who is very close to Melo and a FA soon) really want him. Especially to lose him over Qi who may or may not be anything. We arent talking about some top 5 pick. I think HOU is just making the smart play here, dont offer more then you have to until you have to. Dont be the knicks and throw in every asset you have just to get the deal done. I think if Morey thinks a trade to CLE is close or the knicks are serious on just keeping him then he ups the offer.

I don't know how interested Cleveland is or how interested Melo is to go there. Not sure which way that goes, but I've heard Melo is deadset on Houston.

At this point to me it doesn't really matter. We absolutely have to get rid of Melo & go full tank. Neither team is going to give us good value on Melo so to me the real highlight of the deal is that our young players can get a ton of playing time & we maybe can end up with Porter/Doncic. Porter is a potential franchise changer. We have to go all in on getting him IMO. A starting 5 of Frank, THJr, Porter, KP, Willy has potential to be pretty good. If everybody develops and reaches their potential.

Free agent PG Greivis Vasquez said he would like to play for the Wizards.
"Hopefully they�re interested, obviously they want to see me healthy," he said. "I�m still in the process of rehabbing, but that would be a great thing for my career, just play the next three or four years in D.C. and help that team, because I know I can help any team, but D.C. is a special city for me." the 30-year-old veteran has played a total of 26 games over the past two seasons and has had trouble staying healthy -- he's had two surgeries on his ankle. While the Wizards need help behind John Wall, they will probably be better off targeting a PG in the draft. Jun 15 - 1:57 PM

In comment 13527980 Italianju said:

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he cares what they think. Which makes me think it would be quite the risk to lose Melo when your two superstars (one who is very close to Melo and a FA soon) really want him. Especially to lose him over Qi who may or may not be anything. We arent talking about some top 5 pick. I think HOU is just making the smart play here, dont offer more then you have to until you have to. Dont be the knicks and throw in every asset you have just to get the deal done. I think if Morey thinks a trade to CLE is close or the knicks are serious on just keeping him then he ups the offer.

Yup I agree 100%. The pause on the trade news that came out last night is the best thing we could have done. Hold out for the best deal possible, but get him traded before the season starts. Deadlines spur action. I'd assume as it gets closer to the season the more desperate they get. I can't see how a team would miss out on the guy they want over the 43rd pick in the 2016 & 2017 draft with no NBA experience at all.

be worth a look
Link - ( New Window )

- Knicks couldn't find a match with Houston

-Mills to meet with Melo hoping Melo will expand his list

-Claims Melo's "camp" leaked the "two yard" stuff

-Knicks called about Bledsoe, Suns countered with trash Knight

-Knicks have "no interest" in Anderson or "other long term deals"


Shockingly "normal" notes here... hopefully they hold strong against taking back shitty deals or Knight (unrelated)

who are you left with?

Maybe Jason Kidd feels he knows how to add Melo to the rotation in Milwaukee?

If Carmelo doesnt care about winning or playing with his friends at this point, we're pretty f*cked.

There is no rush on our part to make a deal happen. Might as well see what you can do and maybe make HOU sweat a bit.

My guess is the best offer we got was Harkless, Hartenstein, and Leonard and some second rounders. No reason at all to do that.

In comment 13527992 DanMetroMan said:

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- Knicks couldn't find a match with Houston -Mills to meet with Melo hoping Melo will expand his list -Claims Melo's "camp" leaked the "two yard" stuff -Knicks called about Bledsoe, Suns countered with trash Knight -Knicks have "no interest" in Anderson or "other long term deals" Shockingly "normal" notes here... hopefully they hold strong against taking back shitty deals or Knight (unrelated)

well we knew the 2 gard lone stuff isola got from leon rose...

hopefully knicks can get melo to expand but my guess he is dead set on houston...

feels loke a team would of taken leonard but houston did not want to gice up and asset to get it done

In comment 13527952 DanMetroMan said:

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Pausing Melo talks is NOT #LOLKNICKS, It's a reset, which makes perfect sense with a new GM (hopefully) about to come on board.

+1.5

for 10 cents on the dollar and the knicks want to trade him 50 cents on the dollar. Houston wants to get him by dumping a horrible contract and thats it.

In comment 13527998 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 13527992 DanMetroMan said: Quote: - Knicks couldn't find a match with Houston -Mills to meet with Melo hoping Melo will expand his list -Claims Melo's "camp" leaked the "two yard" stuff -Knicks called about Bledsoe, Suns countered with trash Knight -Knicks have "no interest" in Anderson or "other long term deals" Shockingly "normal" notes here... hopefully they hold strong against taking back shitty deals or Knight (unrelated) well we knew the 2 gard lone stuff isola got from leon rose... hopefully knicks can get melo to expand but my guess he is dead set on houston... feels loke a team would of taken leonard but houston did not want to gice up and asset to get it done

He can be dead set on Houston all he wants, but it takes two to tango. There is literally 0 that the Rockets have that interest me. I would have taken Dekker and a 1st for Melo, but they traded their only decent assets to LAC.

I agree with Enzo that the Wizards make a lot of sense.

Melo for Gortat, Smith, Oubre, Frazier, Satoransky and two firsts

Makes a ton of sense for both teams. Knicks get a young piece in Oubre, a PG in Frazier, no long term deals and two firsts.

Wiz get easily the best player in the deal and trade nothing but backups.

In comment 13528006 Jon in NYC said:

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In comment 13527998 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 13527992 DanMetroMan said: Quote: - Knicks couldn't find a match with Houston -Mills to meet with Melo hoping Melo will expand his list -Claims Melo's "camp" leaked the "two yard" stuff -Knicks called about Bledsoe, Suns countered with trash Knight -Knicks have "no interest" in Anderson or "other long term deals" Shockingly "normal" notes here... hopefully they hold strong against taking back shitty deals or Knight (unrelated) well we knew the 2 gard lone stuff isola got from leon rose... hopefully knicks can get melo to expand but my guess he is dead set on houston... feels loke a team would of taken leonard but houston did not want to gice up and asset to get it done He can be dead set on Houston all he wants, but it takes two to tango. There is literally 0 that the Rockets have that interest me. I would have taken Dekker and a 1st for Melo, but they traded their only decent assets to LAC. I agree with Enzo that the Wizards make a lot of sense. Melo for Gortat, Smith, Oubre, Frazier, Satoransky and two firsts Makes a ton of sense for both teams. Knicks get a young piece in Oubre, a PG in Frazier, no long term deals and two firsts. Wiz get easily the best player in the deal and trade nothing but backups.

Here is the trade. Just have to wait until August 26th for the Wizards to be able to trade Frazier
Link - ( New Window )

and thinks he'll make a difference?

No offense to Perry, who could be universally regarded and an ace as a GM - but what has changed about the Knicks that makes you think he could possibly be successful here?

You still have Mills and Houston at the top. One very successful guy saw that and abruptly did an about face when it was clear the Knicks had no intention of changing it. Why does anyone think Perry will have the autonomy to be successful?

Until the cronies are gone, it doesn't matter who else they hire the product will be the same.

They are not desperate to rid themselves of Melo. We will be very bad with or without him. Might as well hold off until you get everything you want(assets with cap space). It's not too much to ask.

In comment 13528009 jcn56 said:

Quote:

and thinks he'll make a difference? No offense to Perry, who could be universally regarded and an ace as a GM - but what has changed about the Knicks that makes you think he could possibly be successful here? You still have Mills and Houston at the top. One very successful guy saw that and abruptly did an about face when it was clear the Knicks had no intention of changing it. Why does anyone think Perry will have the autonomy to be successful? Until the cronies are gone, it doesn't matter who else they hire the product will be the same.

Well two hours in charge and the Knicks did an immediate 180 on the Melo deal, so what's to say he won't have autonomy?

but i am wondering if perry will basically run the basketball part with mills having input and mills will run business side...


i dont think he has autonomy but i am sire he has a lot of say

As pathetic as it may be, is this --- the job would appear to be extremely undesirable. The person who has allegedly accepted the job seems to have some credibility / respect / track record, and walked away from a gig that he took just recently (if I understand correctly).

So one can reasonably infer that Mills (et al) has granted a level of control / autonomy commensurate enough for a desirable candidate to accept the risk of career suicide.

Sure, it could be about the money, by I would expect a guy who's only in his 50s to be weighing the career impact quite heavily in the decision process.

In comment 13528009 jcn56 said:

Quote:

and thinks he'll make a difference? No offense to Perry, who could be universally regarded and an ace as a GM - but what has changed about the Knicks that makes you think he could possibly be successful here? You still have Mills and Houston at the top. One very successful guy saw that and abruptly did an about face when it was clear the Knicks had no intention of changing it. Why does anyone think Perry will have the autonomy to be successful? Until the cronies are gone, it doesn't matter who else they hire the product will be the same.

I'm as critical of the Knicks as anyone on here BUT if you are going to try and be somewhat optimistic the only path to a changing of the braintrust is someone like Perry coming in and giving new ideas that gain the trust of Dolan/Mills etc. I doubt there is a single Knicks fan who would prefer Dolan/Mills/Houston remaining in charge vs. a full changing of the guard but at least Perry is highly respected and a new voice.

Not a knock on the Knicks or Frank, but Lonzo and DSJ looked really good. Lonzo's confidence and unselfishness are infectious to his teammates. I know its only summer league but he doesn't seem overwhelmed at all.

DSJ just looks like a special athlete. Incredibly explosive. Really surprised the Bulls took Markkanenn over him. But DSJ is in a great situation in Dallas. Looking forward to watching him play this season. This has the potential for an all time great rookie class.

but what worries me more is that Isiah Thomas is "shadow" controlling the Knicks.

is that Mills may think he's getting short offers because other teams are testing his ability to do the job. It's not terrible to involve the new guy who may be a more experienced negotiator, but with anything Knicks-related there's always a catch.

Call me highly skeptical that you're getting five players and two picks for Melo. I would like to see the math on that valuation, because I can't see how one could asses his worth that way with anything other than orange and blue goggles on. That's arguably more than the Nuggets got for trading him during his age 26 season when he was a a near top-5 player.

In comment 13528045 Chris684 said:

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but what worries me more is that Isiah Thomas is "shadow" controlling the Knicks.

ok isola

looking a bit more muscular
Link - ( New Window )

I'm as critical as any Knicks fan out there, but I like the Perry move. If Mills takes on a "owner role" as President and truly lets Perry run the basketball side, then maybe this can work. Mills=John Mara, and Perry= Reese- I know that's really looking at the bright side. It was only a few months, but Perry just worked with Vlade and Vivek in Sacramento.

I would have loved for a guy like Masaii to come here and clean house but I'm optimistic about this move. I'm not really disappointed in them missing out on Griffin. Honestly I didn't really like most of his moves with Cleveland and he really just seems like a media darling.

a deal with the Knicks must be pretty bizarre for opposing GM's

Woj had Scott Perry on his podcast a month ago. Talks a lot about his mindset and his experience on the basketball ops side of things. Seems like a smart guy. I especially liked around the 20 minutes remaining mark where he talks about what he wants from a player and his ideas of team success/buying in.
Woj podcast: Scott Perry - ( New Window )

from the shadows? Do you really believe that?

Everything the Knicks do gets bashed. It's the popular thing to do these days and they deserve it. I haven't read a bad thing about Perry or this move for the Knicks, it seems as though its universally approved. That's a good sign.

In comment 13528083 Keith said:

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Everything the Knicks do gets bashed. It's the popular thing to do these days and they deserve it. I haven't read a bad thing about Perry or this move for the Knicks, it seems as though its universally approved. That's a good sign.

I've seen him critiqued for being involved in the Darko decision but that presumably was a groupthink. To this day I think it's sort of BS. Darko had the skill set to be a special NBA player. Guy didn't have the heart/love of the game but when they picked him people weren't laughing at Detroit.

I'm going to be pissed for eternity that the Knicks took fucking Frenchy over Dennis Smith.

Wow,he's got hops.

Is like the Emperor, Mills is Vader. Thomas is lurking in the shadows pulling all the strings!!!!

Crazy for me?

What can we get? Qi or some other young guy?

The difference between Melo off this team and being on this team is very probably the difference between a 1-2-3 pick or a 7-8-9 pick.

The difference between a Frank Ntkilina and a Lonzo Ball.

What's the worth?

Trade Melo for anything. Be the worst team in the NBA next year.

The Knicks are to going anywhere for at least 3-4 seasons. We can take on virtually any bad deal. Including Ryan Anderson. It gets us closer to 2 top 3 lottery picks over the next 2 years.

In comment 13528085 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 13528083 Keith said: Quote: Everything the Knicks do gets bashed. It's the popular thing to do these days and they deserve it. I haven't read a bad thing about Perry or this move for the Knicks, it seems as though its universally approved. That's a good sign. I've seen him critiqued for being involved in the Darko decision but that presumably was a groupthink. To this day I think it's sort of BS. Darko had the skill set to be a special NBA player. Guy didn't have the heart/love of the game but when they picked him people weren't laughing at Detroit.

Hindsight is 20/20 but hard to get on anyone for the Darko pick. Most drafts without Lebron and Darko is an unanimous number 1 pick. Even when Larry Brown had him, he was convinced Darko was going to be a star.

In comment 13528102 twostepgiants said:

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Crazy for me? What can we get? Qi or some other young guy? The difference between Melo off this team and being on this team is very probably the difference between a 1-2-3 pick or a 7-8-9 pick. The difference between a Frank Ntkilina and a Lonzo Ball. What's the worth? Trade Melo for anything. Be the worst team in the NBA next year. The Knicks are to going anywhere for at least 3-4 seasons. We can take on virtually any bad deal. Including Ryan Anderson. It gets us closer to 2 top 3 lottery picks over the next 2 years.

1. What's the rush? Those same teams will be available to deal with over the next 3+ months

2. They are trying to force guys like Ryan Anderson and (reportedly) Meyers Leonard on the Knicks. If you aren't even getting back picks or a guy like Qi then the return is a net NEGATIVE. More money committed for a longer period?

right? at least not yet...Kings will offer him more money to say and he will dismiss the dysfunctional Knicks...

as much as anyone here may want it, there is no tank plan.

And yeah, taking on 3 years of a bad contract is a significant downside.

In comment 13528113 Mike in St. Louis said:

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right? at least not yet...Kings will offer him more money to say and he will dismiss the dysfunctional Knicks...

agreed to between knkcks and perry, kings and knicks working on cash compensation

Good move. They were dealing from weakness. Have to make teams think you want to keep him to get anything of value back. They'll still trade him in time.

In comment 13528086 Greg from LI said:

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I'm going to be pissed for eternity that the Knicks took fucking Frenchy over Dennis Smith.

Yeah, but triangle!!

What a clusterfuck the Jax era turned out to be.

said the Pacers offered George for Klay Thompson. Not that notable but hadn't seen that previously.

In comment 13528132 DanMetroMan said:

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said the Pacers offered George for Klay Thompson. Not that notable but hadn't seen that previously.

I still can't believe they only got Olidipo and Sabonis for Paul George. How could they not get any picks from OKC? Why not take Kevin Love whos a proven nba all star? That trade made zero sense for Indiana.

He kind of has teams over a barrel.....well, unless the Knicks are a possibility, then you get a windfall in return.

In comment 13528086 Greg from LI said:

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I'm going to be pissed for eternity that the Knicks took fucking Frenchy over Dennis Smith.

DSJ is all but guaranteed to replace Artest as "guy taken right after the Knicks pick a French prospect who NYK fans go on to lament for years."

In comment 13528086 Greg from LI said:

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I'm going to be pissed for eternity that the Knicks took fucking Frenchy over Dennis Smith.

You don't know that. Smith could and likely will be the "flashier" player or more prolific scorer but we don't need that. We need the cerebral, hard working, strong silent pass first with defensive chops type. And badly. Desperately. We don't need another Jamal Crawford or highlight reel guard types. Not this team. Not comparing JR to Crawford...u get my point.

Give Frenchy time. He might be everything we need.

I am shocked at the discomfort Knicks fans are displaying with this pick. It's not like Frenchy pick was completely out of nowhere or anywhere near the blatant out in the open misstep when picking Weis over Artest. Weis was not only a reach, Artest was clearly the better prospect. That's not the case here.

Just seems odd to me that Knicks fans are lamenting this kind of pick. If Frenchy peaks he's going to be beloved in NYC. MAybe even more than KP.

Smith could be one of those scorers/-players that looks good on paper but doesn't really have the impact we are looking for here. Or he's a demi-god in waiting.

than KP? C'mon lol Based on what? No knocking Frank but KP has a chance to be a franchise player, Frank does not.

actually praised the Knicks...Knicks smart to refuse to take Ryan Anderson in potential Carmelo Anthony deal

"But the Knicks front office, led now and maybe forever by Steve Mills, is making total financial sense by refusing to take on Anderson and his enormous contract in a proposed trade for Anthony."

Why don't they need a scorer? Outside of Kristaps, who is going to score for this team long term? Willy will pitch in some, but who else?

You go for the most talent in the top ten. You can get solid glue guy types elsewhere.

I hate getting into all these labels. Franchise player and great player and max player...whatever. Frenchy has a chance to be the floor general this franchise has been looking for since Walt Frazier. I want a floor general. A guy that defends and makes the team go. Call that what you will but Frenchy has a good chance to be a legit PG. And yes, NYC will eat that up. I remember when Mark Jackson set this town on fire. Frenchy could be even better.

I don't care about Franchise players. I want a great PG. An underrated PG. Gimme that over the Marbury types any day of the week.

they don't need "talent" as much as they need leadership and intangibles from the PG position. And Frenchy has talent. He's 18 years old and was able to hold his own in a man's league. Give him a chance before bailing on his career.

In comment 13528173 djm said:

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I am shocked at the discomfort Knicks fans are displaying with this pick. It's not like Frenchy pick was completely out of nowhere or anywhere near the blatant out in the open misstep when picking Weis over Artest. Weis was not only a reach, Artest was clearly the better prospect. That's not the case here. Just seems odd to me that Knicks fans are lamenting this kind of pick. If Frenchy peaks he's going to be beloved in NYC. MAybe even more than KP. Smith could be one of those scorers/-players that looks good on paper but doesn't really have the impact we are looking for here. Or he's a demi-god in waiting.

I think the discomfort comes from the fact that this may have been the most talent rich collegiate draft class since '03, and we took the unknown in a European based off him fitting an archaic system. Calling this a misstep may be premature, but, all things considered, it sure seems like it looks like, swims like, and quacks like a duck.

has an array of talents that we sorely need here. I am on board with the pick. I also fully admit to not knowing much about him other than the vids we have all seen--same as you all.

It's too early but this kid was not a reach, on paper.

But where does everyone get the idea that frank can't be a stud. I'm going to take a chance and say 95% of you who trash him have no fucking clue what his potential is. You just regurgitate things about his ceiling is low. You don't know this to be a fact. Let the kid play and showcase his game

In comment 13528195 djm said:

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I hate getting into all these labels. Franchise player and great player and max player...whatever. Frenchy has a chance to be the floor general this franchise has been looking for since Walt Frazier. I want a floor general. A guy that defends and makes the team go. Call that what you will but Frenchy has a good chance to be a legit PG. And yes, NYC will eat that up. I remember when Mark Jackson set this town on fire. Frenchy could be even better. I don't care about Franchise players. I want a great PG. An underrated PG. Gimme that over the Marbury types any day of the week.

A franchise player is a player you build around. Stephon Marbury was never considered a "franchise player". Kevin Garnett was. Max player means the view of the player is he's worth max money. It's wonderful to be optimistic about Frank but to call his upside greater than KP's is ridiculous. KP goes #1 overall in this past draft.

if a guy can play in the triangle he can play in any system. Forget that crap. It's over. Even if they fell in love with his so called triangle talents they will translate to any system.

He's a Knick now. See what happens. He's got a unique blend of talents.

ceiling is lower than KP's. That's just a fact based on physical attributes. It's not even really debatable based on facts or "dreaming on the unknown".

How unfair it is to him that the Knicks told him he's being traded and he's been prepared for 2 weeks now and then change their mind. I won't even link the article because it's so slanted. We don't owe this guy a thing. If you want to be traded so bad, open your list pal. Otherwise, shut up.

So I think you're going to keep waiting for that floor general.

MArbury was compared to the best PGs of all time. He came into the NBA with a ton of fan fair and was traded straight up for Jason Kidd after racking up a billion pts/assists early on and no one blamed the Suns for making the deal. Suns? I think it was the Suns and Nets who made that deal...


Marbury was more heralded and shiny than Smith ever was. That was my point. And Smith is a shiny scorer type prospect.

He was rough around the edges and light as a feather, but he's an athletic giant with a nice shooting touch. He has rare attributes. I've never seen anyone tell me what is exceptional about Frank except for wingspan, which is a nice thing to have but doesn't de facto mean he is a great defender.

In comment 13528206 DanMetroMan said:

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ceiling is lower than KP's. That's just a fact based on physical attributes. It's not even really debatable based on facts or "dreaming on the unknown".

JFC Dan I know. I didn't say potential I said BELOVED.

Relax. You can win.

Melo asked Phil for a buyout, Phil said no but that they would work together on a deal to one of his hand picked destinations which explains Isola's article

TIL: The Knicks have been scouting Kuz for at least 7 years now
Link - ( New Window )

Frenchy has middling point guard potential in your world. I do NOT agree. It's laughable that you'd close the book on a kid's ceiling before he can shave but whatever works.

Talk to me in 2 years or so.

In comment 13528213 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 13528206 DanMetroMan said: Quote: ceiling is lower than KP's. That's just a fact based on physical attributes. It's not even really debatable based on facts or "dreaming on the unknown". JFC Dan I know. I didn't say potential I said BELOVED. Relax. You can win.

So if he's Derek Harper 2.0 (an excellent outcome) he's going to be more beloved by fans than a likely perennial all-star? It's great to be high on Frank but you are really inflating his case here. He has a chance to be a very nice piece and good at all facets, KP already has the fan base licking his balls and barring something unforeseen will join Patrick, Frazier, Reed in the pantheon of Knick "greats".

In comment 13528205 djm said:

Quote:

if a guy can play in the triangle he can play in any system. Forget that crap. It's over. Even if they fell in love with his so called triangle talents they will translate to any system. He's a Knick now. See what happens. He's got a unique blend of talents.

what exactly are this talents as of now?

I get the fear factor but the Knicks actually scout young talent as well as most teams if not better than most. It's their FA decision making and overall climate that's been awful.

The Knicks seem to have the euro talent thing down pretty tight. I am not going to lie I give them benefit of the doubt on drafting, to an extent.

In comment 13528224 Enzo said:

Quote:

In comment 13528205 djm said: Quote: if a guy can play in the triangle he can play in any system. Forget that crap. It's over. Even if they fell in love with his so called triangle talents they will translate to any system. He's a Knick now. See what happens. He's got a unique blend of talents. what exactly are this talents as of now?

Cmon dude....

I get that a lot of you don't follow the ACC closely, but while both Marbury and Smith were known for explosive athleticism, they are NOT close comps. Marbury's assist numbers were much lower than Smith despite the fact that Smith was playing with complete garbage while Marbury was on a pretty strong GT squad that featured two guys who played in the NBA (Matt Harpring and Drew Barry). Assists per 40: Smith 7.1, Marbury 4.8.

Smith for the most part tried to be a facilitator and play within the offense, but the simple fact was that he had no one to pass to. Can any of you name two other players on the Wuffies? Probably not, because they all suck ass. When your best passing options are Terry Henderson and a guy best known for his resemblance to Napoleon Dynamite, resorting to heroball is going to happen.

first say knicks should keep melo..then say trade is almost done, then knicks pull out because do not like what they are getting and then kill knicks for being patient and write an article on how he was roght but knicks screwed it up

great height and still growing? Insane wing span for a PG? Defensively gifted? Willingness to fight through screens?
Ability to get skinny when needed? Great head on his shoulders? Unselfish on the court, grounded off it? Able to hold is own with grown men? Very good outside shot, but maybe one that needs a little work IE release? Oh, and EIGHTEEN YEARS OLD.

I know you know this.

amazing Kevin Wilson has been with the Knicks even longer than I realized. Not sure exactly when he was hired but he's been with them for at least 15 years. Crazy they have been "in" on Kuz for 7 years now.

In comment 13528228 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 13528224 Enzo said: Quote: In comment 13528205 djm said: Quote: if a guy can play in the triangle he can play in any system. Forget that crap. It's over. Even if they fell in love with his so called triangle talents they will translate to any system. He's a Knick now. See what happens. He's got a unique blend of talents. what exactly are this talents as of now? Cmon dude....

It was your statement. Everything I've read about this guys screams that he's a huge project. So what's he good at right now? Having long arms doesn't count.

are you really saying Smith is the better PG prospect than MArbury was??????? At best they are equals.

Quote:

Name: Stephon Marbury College: Georgia Tech Height: 6'1" Weight: 180 Born: 2/20/77 Position: Point Guard Other Position: Shooting Guard Strengths: Great overall skills, defense Weaknesses: Streaky shooter His strengths are many, an excelent defender and ballhandler he can control his offense and disrupt the opponents offense. He is a good shooter but is a little streaky (ie inconsistent) and must get better. His range easily goes to three point range. He is a master at breaking down the defense with his dribble and should have no trouble penetrating in the NBA. He has great basketball instincts. All those wonderful strengths aside, Marbury does have some weaknesses: He did not have a good assist to turnover ratio, 161 to 115 (although he showed *much* improvement at the end of the year). He needs to bulk up some, this was apparent the way the physical backcourt of Cincinnati dominated him in the NCAA's. Overall, Marbury is a special player. Like so many he is coming out way to soon and could use an extra year or two to mature as a person. Given some time he will be a star in the NBA for years to come. He should be a top 5 pick.

In comment 13528240 Enzo said:

Quote:

In comment 13528228 djm said: Quote: In comment 13528224 Enzo said: Quote: In comment 13528205 djm said: Quote: if a guy can play in the triangle he can play in any system. Forget that crap. It's over. Even if they fell in love with his so called triangle talents they will translate to any system. He's a Knick now. See what happens. He's got a unique blend of talents. what exactly are this talents as of now? Cmon dude.... It was your statement. Everything I've read about this guys screams that he's a huge project. So what's he good at right now? Having long arms doesn't count.

Shooting and defense

In comment 13528221 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 13528213 djm said: Quote: In comment 13528206 DanMetroMan said: Quote: ceiling is lower than KP's. That's just a fact based on physical attributes. It's not even really debatable based on facts or "dreaming on the unknown". JFC Dan I know. I didn't say potential I said BELOVED. Relax. You can win. So if he's Derek Harper 2.0 (an excellent outcome) he's going to be more beloved by fans than a likely perennial all-star? It's great to be high on Frank but you are really inflating his case here. He has a chance to be a very nice piece and good at all facets, KP already has the fan base licking his balls and barring something unforeseen will join Patrick, Frazier, Reed in the pantheon of Knick "greats".

You like pick weird battles. You're wasting a lot of energy on my saying a good to great PG would be insanely beloved in NYC. Ok fine, no one will like him more than KP. Move on.

In comment 13528195 djm said:

Quote:

I hate getting into all these labels. Franchise player and great player and max player...whatever. Frenchy has a chance to be the floor general this franchise has been looking for since Walt Frazier. I want a floor general. A guy that defends and makes the team go. Call that what you will but Frenchy has a good chance to be a legit PG. And yes, NYC will eat that up. I remember when Mark Jackson set this town on fire. Frenchy could be even better. I don't care about Franchise players. I want a great PG. An underrated PG. Gimme that over the Marbury types any day of the week.

Walt Frazier? If Frank had the potential to be Walt Frazier he would have been the first pick in the draft. "Intangibles and leadership" is nice but talent wins in the NBA. Outside of his length, what does Frank do better than DSJ, Monk or Mitchell? No one describes him as this raw explosive athlete.

I get most people don't like Marbury but he was an awesome nba talent. If Frank ever averages 20 and 9, that pick is a home run. But is anyone projecting that for him? Sure seems like his potential is more of a role player. I would have rather swung for the fences with DSJ, Monk or Mitchell. I hope I'm wrong though.

In comment 13528248 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

In comment 13528240 Enzo said: Quote: In comment 13528228 djm said: Quote: In comment 13528224 Enzo said: Quote: In comment 13528205 djm said: Quote: if a guy can play in the triangle he can play in any system. Forget that crap. It's over. Even if they fell in love with his so called triangle talents they will translate to any system. He's a Knick now. See what happens. He's got a unique blend of talents. what exactly are this talents as of now? Cmon dude.... It was your statement. Everything I've read about this guys screams that he's a huge project. So what's he good at right now? Having long arms doesn't count. Shooting and defense

saying he's a good shooter now would seem to be a huge reach given most reports have him with a slow release and lacking the ability to shoot off the dribble.

who they love more: Phil Simms or Lawrence Taylor. For every 100 fans i'd bet at least 50 of them say Simms. And those same 50 would acknowledge that LT was the best player in NYG history.

Not comparing the players or KP to LT or Joe Blow. Just making a point.

but based on most reports his ball-handling and first step are concerns. His jumper is ok but he doesn't have a quick release and he can't shoot off the dribble. Sorry, but none of this screams "future star PG" to me.

all of a sudden Knicks fans want instant player over long term contributions.

Again, I never said right now. Can you all stop putting words in my mouth?

PG? Let's assume he's not first ballot HOFers Chris Paul or potential first ballot guys like Curry/Westbrook. If he's a top 10 NBA PG (a great outcome)... a Kyle Lowry, a Kemba Walker, a Mike Conley... he would be more beloved than what Porzingis likely becomes? It's a little much.

might reclassify which would make him eligible for next years draft (would give the class at minimum 3 guys viewed as potential superstars). Jerry Meyer of 247Sports absolutely loves Zion Williamson. In videos he looks like a monster sized kid vs. much small kids but apparently he's closer to a Lebron than a Stephenson (the two most recent examples of monster sized HS wings I can think of). Should be interesting to follow.... (I'm not saying Williamson is Lebron for the record). RJ Barrett is another guy I can't wait to follow, crazy buzz.

with Williamson is he almost plays TOO hard, will his body hold up? Already 1 knee injury.
Link - ( New Window )

Everyone references Franks age (turning 19 in a few weeks) but it's not like Monk, DSJ and Mitchell are 23 year old college seniors. Monk and DSJ are 19 and Mitchell is 20. Far from finished products. DSJ was also coming off the ACL injury which has be to factored in.

It's hard to argue that Phil didn't make this pick with the triangle in mind. He clearly admired the fundamentals of Euro players and wasn't looking for a "triple double crazy athlete".

In comment 13528259 djm said:

Quote:

all of a sudden Knicks fans want instant player over long term contributions. Again, I never said right now. Can you all stop putting words in my mouth?

you said "He's got a unique blend of talents." If ball-handling, quickness, foot speed, and overall athleticism aren't among them...that doesn't leave much. Certain things will obviously improve if he puts in the time (eg jumper) - but based on what I'm reading the guy seems more like a small wing than a big guard. And a lot of the projecting with this guy has more to do with intangibles instead of measurables. Hope I'm wrong.

I'm saying that using a comparison to Marbury to tarnish Smith as a selfish point guard is inaccurate. He was much more of a distributor despite having teammates who are far inferior to Marbury 's Georgia Tech team.

@wojespn
Scott Perry has agreed to a five-year contract to become New York's general manager, league sources tell ESPN.


The Knicks are slated to get the worst 2 of Orlando's, Cleveland's, and Houston's 2nd rounders in 2019. Kings will get the best of those two

to NYK finalized. 5 year deal.

2nd rounder in 2019 as compensation to Sacto

..moving on.

but not the cerebral type that Frankie might become.

Whatever. It's laughable and insane that you all have the book written on an 18 year old kid. I'm sorry but you're nuts to proclaim ceilings and potentials and top 10 this or that at this stage. That's it i'm done.

because I can some of you taking that line and beating my over the head with it. Defensive intensity is what I will go with it.

Done.

looks like Chris Broussard's long lost clean shaven twin?

needs to go from respected around the league pretty bright mind to Moses, Jesus, Allah and JErry West rolled into one. PLease.

you feel good about the Perry hire
Link - ( New Window )

He's an undersized PF, but he's got incredible length and he's already a very good shot-blocker and rebounder. He's definitely worth taking a gamble on.

While Mills will hold ultimate authority in the front office, Perry will be afforded tremendous freedom to operate as he chooses, league sources said. He will be the day-to-day voice running the basketball side.

New York has been searching for a GM who won't push for an overhaul of the front-office staff, league sources said, as well as an executive who can coexist with Mills, who will have ultimate authority.

In comment 13528410 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

While Mills will hold ultimate authority in the front office, Perry will be afforded tremendous freedom to operate as he chooses, league sources said. He will be the day-to-day voice running the basketball side. New York has been searching for a GM who won't push for an overhaul of the front-office staff, league sources said, as well as an executive who can coexist with Mills, who will have ultimate authority.

I figured this was the case. Mills was offering to let the GM "basically" be in charge. Stuff gets run past Mills but he's not gonna veto or dictate things except in extreme circumstances. The bigger the star or more money at issue, the more Mills buy in there needs to be. Just my guess. And who knows if Mills wont then meddle anyway.

So Mills basically took Phil's role and hired a guy who was willing to forego ultimate authority to keep the same inept people in place. Our whole search was predicated on that fact alone.

Nice.

is the structure. So not getting to clean house is big and suggests more of the same.

A lot of cooks in the kitchen, some of which are long-timers who are the eyes and ears of the owner, so he can continue to pretend that he's now hands-off.

In comment 13528251 TyreeHelmet said:

Quote:

In comment 13528195 djm said: Quote: I hate getting into all these labels. Franchise player and great player and max player...whatever. Frenchy has a chance to be the floor general this franchise has been looking for since Walt Frazier. I want a floor general. A guy that defends and makes the team go. Call that what you will but Frenchy has a good chance to be a legit PG. And yes, NYC will eat that up. I remember when Mark Jackson set this town on fire. Frenchy could be even better. I don't care about Franchise players. I want a great PG. An underrated PG. Gimme that over the Marbury types any day of the week. Walt Frazier? If Frank had the potential to be Walt Frazier he would have been the first pick in the draft. "Intangibles and leadership" is nice but talent wins in the NBA. Outside of his length, what does Frank do better than DSJ, Monk or Mitchell? No one describes him as this raw explosive athlete. I get most people don't like Marbury but he was an awesome nba talent. If Frank ever averages 20 and 9, that pick is a home run. But is anyone projecting that for him? Sure seems like his potential is more of a role player. I would have rather swung for the fences with DSJ, Monk or Mitchell. I hope I'm wrong though.

Well, Walt Frazier had the potential of Walt Frazier and he wasn't the first pick in the NBA draft.

was obviously before my time, why exactly was his prime so short? Looks like from 23-27 he was an animal and then he declined from 28 on, did he get hurt? Father time? Or just a matter of the stats back then not being able to account for his game?

In comment 13528459 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

was obviously before my time, why exactly was his prime so short? Looks like from 23-27 he was an animal and then he declined from 28 on, did he get hurt? Father time? Or just a matter of the stats back then not being able to account for his game?

Before my time too but I know he dealt with bad foot fractures and injuries they struggled to solve/heal late in his career. Also sounds like it ended pretty messy with the Knicks. They paid a portion of salary to Cleveland and really wanted him gone.

.

In comment 13528446 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

is the structure. So not getting to clean house is big and suggests more of the same. A lot of cooks in the kitchen, some of which are long-timers who are the eyes and ears of the owner, so he can continue to pretend that he's now hands-off.

Now Mills has a fall guy if/when things go south.

In comment 13528446 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

is the structure. So not getting to clean house is big and suggests more of the same. A lot of cooks in the kitchen, some of which are long-timers who are the eyes and ears of the owner, so he can continue to pretend that he's now hands-off.

Where does this place exist in professional sports where the owner lets major things happen with no input? Every single person in this particular sport who has "final say on personnel matters" answers to the owner at some point.

I'm not saying you in particular, but people can't have it both ways... bitching about the owner doing a show during the draft (for example), then saying he's pretending to be hands-off. If they pick a coach or trade a major player, the owner of EVERY team is going to be involved. However, he's not picking between Dennis Smith Jr. and Frank Ntilikina.

lands Simmons, 3 for 20. Steal.

...

In comment 13528522 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

lands Simmons, 3 for 20. Steal.

Hardaway contract day looks worse every passing day. Could have come away with Simmons, Clark and either Sergio or Rondo all for less years than what Hardaway got.

Why not take multiple fliers and land a vet PG?

one is much young, and is a better player. Simmons shooting issues limit him to a bench role.

I may eat my words on this, but I think he's going to fade into relative anonymity. Role players always get too much hype on great teams.

Magic have some interesting long athletes. It's a shame what their old GM did in an effort to save his job.

So basically Perry can draft whoever he wants in the 2nd round

In comment 13528410 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

While Mills will hold ultimate authority in the front office, Perry will be afforded tremendous freedom to operate as he chooses, league sources said. He will be the day-to-day voice running the basketball side. New York has been searching for a GM who won't push for an overhaul of the front-office staff, league sources said, as well as an executive who can coexist with Mills, who will have ultimate authority.

Quote:

"Today marks a culture change for our organization where we reestablish the pride, work ethic and responsibility that comes with playing for the Knicks and representing New York," Knicks owner Jim Dolan said in a statement announcing the hires, the terms of which were undisclosed. "I'm confident that Steve is the right person to take on this role, and ensure that we return to one of the elite teams of the NBA. He's got an ambitious plan that centers on building a young team focused on player development, communication and teamwork."

Link - ( New Window )

.

Dolan

Quote:

James Dolan says that 'as Steve (Mills) and Scott (Perry) move forward, I will continue to not be involved in the operations of the team.

Frank has a chance to be a solid NBA player, he has absolutely no chance of being a 'superstar' or number 1 guy on a team because he does not have skill that he is Excellent at. Does everything good but nothing great and he is an average athlete. Will Likely have to play 2 guard becaus ehe has a very average handle,, should be a solid defender. Hopefully clue ends up being a solid 3 or 4 guy on a team and hopefully smith, Mitchell and monk end up sucking

A lot of teams had him ranked in the top 10 or so from what I read. They must have seen something they liked.

Not saying anyone here is wrong, just a matter of insufficient evidence.

I'm curious about how many people, who posted about Frank can and cannot do and what he will or will not become in the future, have seen the guy play in person or on tv. For this purpose, youtube doesn't count. Has anybody here seen a game he's played?

anyone can say they know this at this point. Even the best scouts can't be absolute about draft prospects.

Quote:

Frank has a chance to be a solid NBA player, he has absolutely no chance of being a 'superstar'

In comment 13528642 steve in ky said:

Quote:

anyone can say they know this at this point. Even the best scouts can't be absolute about draft prospects. Quote: Frank has a chance to be a solid NBA player, he has absolutely no chance of being a 'superstar'

They can't say it. I am swinging for the fences with Frank. I don't necessarily think it's a safe pick at all. I wouldn't like it if it was safe.

In comment 13528520 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

Quote:

In comment 13528446 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: is the structure. So not getting to clean house is big and suggests more of the same. A lot of cooks in the kitchen, some of which are long-timers who are the eyes and ears of the owner, so he can continue to pretend that he's now hands-off. Where does this place exist in professional sports where the owner lets major things happen with no input? Every single person in this particular sport who has "final say on personnel matters" answers to the owner at some point. I'm not saying you in particular, but people can't have it both ways... bitching about the owner doing a show during the draft (for example), then saying he's pretending to be hands-off. If they pick a coach or trade a major player, the owner of EVERY team is going to be involved. However, he's not picking between Dennis Smith Jr. and Frank Ntilikina.

When I say hands-off, I don't mean input on big money moves. That's part of sports.

Not hiring a general manager because you wouldn't allow him to decide who works in the front office he's allegedly going to be in charge of, that's what I'm talking about. Continuing to go forward with this bizarre, secretive, and wildly ineffective organizational structure that holds over the same cast of known-owner friendly cronies through failed regime after failed regime and then having the balls to conduct business in a totally adversarial relationship with the media, allowing your interim GM to spend 30 million dollars more than the bidding price for a middling free agent and then not even taking questions on why such a thing would be allowed to happen, that's what I'm talking about. Picking up Phil Jackson's option years when he didn't do anything to deserve it, then firing him two weeks later after being allowed to determine the draft pick, that's what I'm talking about.

I'm hoping that Perry's hire is somewhat like George Young's hire when the Giants had the same problems back when. Actually, the Giants' problems were worse than the Knicks' in those days. The league stepped in and made a "suggestion" that the team followed.

But that may just be wishful thinking ...

In comment 13528758 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

When I say hands-off, I don't mean input on big money moves. That's part of sports. Not hiring a general manager because you wouldn't allow him to decide who works in the front office he's allegedly going to be in charge of, that's what I'm talking about. Continuing to go forward with this bizarre, secretive, and wildly ineffective organizational structure that holds over the same cast of known-owner friendly cronies through failed regime after failed regime and then having the balls to conduct business in a totally adversarial relationship with the media, allowing your interim GM to spend 30 million dollars more than the bidding price for a middling free agent and then not even taking questions on why such a thing would be allowed to happen, that's what I'm talking about. Picking up Phil Jackson's option years when he didn't do anything to deserve it, then firing him two weeks later after being allowed to determine the draft pick, that's what I'm talking about.

I don't give a rat's ass about their relationship with the media. The "known owner cronies" thing doesn't matter because those guys haven't been making the decisions until now. They were all beneath Phil in the pecking order. Mills was close to Isiah, but was still beneath him in the pecking order. There's no evidence they were calling shots instead of Donnie Walsh (although Dolan commandeered the Melo trade). What's the purpose of complaining about Allan Houston when he had no power? Mills may have been a "Dolan spy", but with the exception of not being able to hire Rambis full-time, Phil got to do whatever the fuck he wanted anyway. The cronies weren't the ones causing issues with Melo or annoying KP. The cronies didn't decide to draft Jordan Hill or Michael Sweetney. The cronies didn't have the authority to give STAT his awful contract. IMO, that's something people complain about with this franchise because they're going to complain about everything.

David Griffin wouldn't do the job with those restrictions, but there are plenty of people who will. It didn't take long to find a guy who would. And Griffin isn't exactly Red Auerbach. There are/were plenty of coaches willing to do the job with Phil standing over their shoulder.

ITA that the new person should've made the decision on THJ and it would've been better to fire Phil before the draft. The problem is the first of the two things that led to Phil's dismissal reached DEFCON 1 just a few days before the draft while the second and most publicly used reason for the dismissal happened after the draft (Melo buy-out). I hated the THJ signing. I wouldn't have drafted Frank either. At this point, I feel like people are just complaining about anything this team does now regardless of it's importance.

is critical for any sports team, and if Griffin wanted to bring in his assistant and was denied the ability to, it says a lot about how much authority he has, and how much trust Dolan gives guys like Mills and Houston as opposed to him. Even Jackson was only allowed to bring in one guy, Gaines. That's nuts. To pay a guy $60M and then tie his hands to ANY extent is ridiculous, unless you want him as the front man and the guy to take the heat, while you unintentionally sabotage his efforts at the same time.

I can't defend the job PJ did, but I also can't say one thing nice about Dolan, who has brought shit to the team for two decades: from the Layden era, to IT's reign, to his blowing of the Melo trade when he undercut Walsh, to the Jackson years. The man's a paranoid and narcissistic control freak who plays with his toy however he wants, and only listens to his yes men.

On ESPN's real plus minus, Hardaway is listed as the 15th best shooting guard and Simmons the 35th.

What I mean by that is that the level of competition is poor. If a high draft pick has problems in summer league, that's a very bad sign. If he plays well in summer league, wait and see.

In comment 13528789 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

Quote:

In comment 13528758 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: When I say hands-off, I don't mean input on big money moves. That's part of sports. Not hiring a general manager because you wouldn't allow him to decide who works in the front office he's allegedly going to be in charge of, that's what I'm talking about. Continuing to go forward with this bizarre, secretive, and wildly ineffective organizational structure that holds over the same cast of known-owner friendly cronies through failed regime after failed regime and then having the balls to conduct business in a totally adversarial relationship with the media, allowing your interim GM to spend 30 million dollars more than the bidding price for a middling free agent and then not even taking questions on why such a thing would be allowed to happen, that's what I'm talking about. Picking up Phil Jackson's option years when he didn't do anything to deserve it, then firing him two weeks later after being allowed to determine the draft pick, that's what I'm talking about. I don't give a rat's ass about their relationship with the media. The "known owner cronies" thing doesn't matter because those guys haven't been making the decisions until now. They were all beneath Phil in the pecking order. Mills was close to Isiah, but was still beneath him in the pecking order. There's no evidence they were calling shots instead of Donnie Walsh (although Dolan commandeered the Melo trade). What's the purpose of complaining about Allan Houston when he had no power? Mills may have been a "Dolan spy", but with the exception of not being able to hire Rambis full-time, Phil got to do whatever the fuck he wanted anyway. The cronies weren't the ones causing issues with Melo or annoying KP. The cronies didn't decide to draft Jordan Hill or Michael Sweetney. The cronies didn't have the authority to give STAT his awful contract. IMO, that's something people complain about with this franchise because they're going to complain about everything. David Griffin wouldn't do the job with those restrictions, but there are plenty of people who will. It didn't take long to find a guy who would. And Griffin isn't exactly Red Auerbach. There are/were plenty of coaches willing to do the job with Phil standing over their shoulder. ITA that the new person should've made the decision on THJ and it would've been better to fire Phil before the draft. The problem is the first of the two things that led to Phil's dismissal reached DEFCON 1 just a few days before the draft while the second and most publicly used reason for the dismissal happened after the draft (Melo buy-out). I hated the THJ signing. I wouldn't have drafted Frank either. At this point, I feel like people are just complaining about anything this team does now regardless of it's importance.

We don't know who's making decisions or who has input in what. I'm not sure why you seem so confident to know all that, but nobody else can say with any certainty exactly what Steve Mills or Allan Houston's roles are or their qualification are to be untouchable. And the media thing matters in the sense that this team bumbles from one fuck up to the next without ever even having to answer a single question about anything.

The fact that there's tons of holdovers from years of failure and strong resistance to any kind of staffing change is pretty obviously a poor way to go about business. Even the Giants, as patiently conservative as they are, don't keep running into a wall for two decades. They don't have the credibility to hire an accomplished GM and tell him he cannot have his own staff.

Shams Charania‏Verified account @ShamsCharania
Free agent Rajon Rondo has reached agreement on a one-year deal with the New Orleans Pelicans, league sources tell The Vertical

In comment 13528795 Ira said:

Quote:

What I mean by that is that the level of competition is poor. If a high draft pick has problems in summer league, that's a very bad sign. If he plays well in summer league, wait and see.

Exhibit A: Chasson Randle

In comment 13528853 Anakim said:

Quote:

Shams Charania‏Verified account @ShamsCharania Free agent Rajon Rondo has reached agreement on a one-year deal with the New Orleans Pelicans, league sources tell The Vertical

getting closer and closer to a Brandon Jennings reunion.

But I'm getting nervous that Rose is still out there.

at this ppint almost rather just throw ntlikina to the fire...

i dont think rose is taking vet minimum

Screw that guy.

He's always been a shoot first point guard, but he's lost his explosion since his Achilles injury. He won't be a Knick.

Nt

Lots of young guys are out there for the taking:

Jordan Mickey (who I REALLY hope we claim), Michael Gbinije, Georges Niang, Rakeem Christmas, Stephen Zimmerman (who I'd MUCH rather have than Marshall Plumlee)...

.

In comment 13528908 Anakim said:

Quote:

.

*Or Tyler Ennis


I think Ennis or Burke would be better at this point than Brandon Knight, Derrick Rose, Deron Williams, Brandon Jennings, etc.

Perry isn't dumb enough to bring in Rose. We need someone who's going to get KP involved early and often. Too bad we could not land Rubio, he would have been a perfect fit

1. Would Melo waive his NTC tp play with Dame/CJ and no one else? I highly doubt it.

2. If the goal is to get younger, could they get a haul like Crabbe, Harkless, Vonleh and Collins for Melo and O'Quinn?

back Leonard if they added Collins.

Harkless, Leonard, Collins for Melo?

In comment 13528853 Anakim said:

Quote:

Shams Charania‏Verified account @ShamsCharania Free agent Rajon Rondo has reached agreement on a one-year deal with the New Orleans Pelicans, league sources tell The Vertical

That to me is one of the more interesting moves this offseason.

But to me, there is no doubt it was the correct pick. I just watched two highlight videos, one of Frank, and one if Smith Jr.-while Smith I'd an incedible athlete, it's also clear that he us basically another Stephon Marbury. We all know how well that worked out for the Knicks. I am so glad Frank was the pick-the Knicks need a pg of the future who will play D, hit three's, and will pass the ball. Smith can score and shoot, but no way in hell does he pass enough, or play good defense. At least Phil got us Porzingus and Frank, two players who I believe will eventually help bring a championship to New York.

Assuming Melo magically agrees to go to Portland b cause Knicks aren't satisfied with Houston or Cleveland offers. knowing the Knicks cap space is disastrous for the next 3-4 years, would you make this trade:

Portland gets:
Melo
Courtney Lee

Knicks get:
2019 unprotected #1st Rd
2021 unprotected 1sr Rd
2019 2nd Rd from Lakers
Moe Harkless
Myles Leonard
Evan Turner

Obviously 2 of the 3 players they are getting are worthless, but the contracts expire at same time as Noah and Lance Thomas. Additionally assuming Portland will be good in 2018, Melo def leaves after 2018 so prob not as good in 2019 so pick could be better lottery pick. knicks can obviously make the future picks or they can be used with any of these terrible expiring contracts in 2019 to package for a team that is starting a rebuild that has a talented player locked in for a few years.

I know big hypothetical, but I'm assuming Portland would at least consider this offer to get rid of all of the awful contracts and pick up 2 pretty good pieces to add to a pretty talented team. With Melo and Courtney Lee I'm assuming Portland is a top 5 in the west?

I think best team if it were feasible would be to get traded to New Orleans
Roll out a lineup of

Rondo
Holiday
Melo
Davis
Cousins

I Like that better than

Paul
Harden
Ariza
Melo
Capella

But Melo to New Orleans has to be absolutely impossible. Aren't they like $14 Million over the cap BEFORE signing Rondo?

Not happening

In comment 13529300 BigBlueShock said:

Quote:

But Melo to New Orleans has to be absolutely impossible. Aren't they like $14 Million over the cap BEFORE signing Rondo? Not happening

Oh I know it wouldn't happen. I don't think they have anything we'd want anyway. That team has massive boom or bust potential though. Just think it'd be an awesome potential lineup to watch

In comment 13528936 Anakim said:

Quote:

In comment 13528908 Anakim said: Quote: . *Or Tyler Ennis I think Ennis or Burke would be better at this point than Brandon Knight, Derrick Rose, Deron Williams, Brandon Jennings, etc.

Add Demetrius Jackson to that list

problem is all the players are crap and they dont have anything else to offer.

As for that POR deal i dont trust that those picks would be anywhere near good enough to take on 2 horrible contracts and a descent one. They would need to give way more.