NFT: Knicks Chat 7/14/2017- One Stop Shopping

be pretty soul crushing if this Perry deal doesn't go through.

I get the Lonzo and DSJ hype, but Lonzo shot 6-20 and DSJ seems to be a bit of a ball hog if you watch the highlights. Still excited for Frank.

not Knick related but people are praising Bender saying he looks much improved

-Linked below a scouting report on Zhou Qi (someone many of us have mentioned as hopefully piece of a Melo deal)
Link - ( New Window )

Pausing Melo talks is NOT #LOLKNICKS, It's a reset, which makes perfect sense with a new GM (hopefully) about to come on board.

To me pausing Melo talks is a negotiating ploy where they are going to try to squeeze more out of the Rockets.

Also I've been told from someone with knowledge if the trade does go through there is no chance that Qi will be involved & that the Rockets consider him untouchable. I hope the person who told me that is wrong, but I've also seen that Jsports_ent guy on Twitter mention something similar.

falls through. Its just money which is the one area that Dolan has not let down Knick fans.

As for the pause on the trade. This is a smart move. If for no other reason then out of respect for the guy you just convinced to come to this circus and be the GM. Let him take a look at everything. The convince melo to stay part is obviously BS to try to get some more leverage, but hey its worth a shot.

In comment 13527957 Big Rick in FL said:

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To me pausing Melo talks is a negotiating ploy where they are going to try to squeeze more out of the Rockets. Also I've been told from someone with knowledge if the trade does go through there is no chance that Qi will be involved & that the Rockets consider him untouchable. I hope the person who told me that is wrong, but I've also seen that Jsports_ent guy on Twitter mention something similar.

That's basically the crux of the Melo issue. The Rockets young chips (Qi and Hartenstein) aren't amazing chips to begin with and with the Rockets according to many (including you) not making Qi available there isn't enough on the table to be in any rush to make a move. Qi isn't exactly some can't miss stud, he's not even a guaranteed NBA rotation player.

he isnt some big name retread. Now will we let him make the basketball decisions, who knows, probably not. That said it seems like everyone is praising the hire.

In comment 13527959 Italianju said:

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falls through. Its just money which is the one area that Dolan has not let down Knick fans. As for the pause on the trade. This is a smart move. If for no other reason then out of respect for the guy you just convinced to come to this circus and be the GM. Let him take a look at everything. The convince melo to stay part is obviously BS to try to get some more leverage, but hey its worth a shot.

We obviously don't know what has been discussed but on paper even the best young chips (Qi and Osman) aren't so outstanding that pausing talks is going to hurt us (and if anything since these guys just signed in theory they become "more" available if we wait). One injury and more contenders might inquire. Can't take back trash like Meyers Leonard without getting multiple picks. That's the going rate.

but if HOU doesnt want to include assets like Qi then why are we making the deal. Instead of having to worry about andersons contract and leonards contract or any other shit contract heading our way we can just trade him to CLE for expirings and Osman or whatever. Then hope you can spin shump/frye for something during the year. A playoff team might give you a young kid at the end of the bench or a euro stash for them come deadline time. And at worst you just let them expire and move on.

morey cares about what Harden or Paul have to say. But now that they are expecting to add Melo it would be funny to be in the room to hear Morey tell them that Melo is going to CLE because he wouldnt part with Qi.

think I'm pro signing Jennings at this point. Played pretty well with KP, hated the triangle which caused his release. He's 100% nothing special at all but he might do reasonably well in Hornacek's faster guard oriented offense. My wishlist

Rondo (until he signs)
Sergio (until he signs)
Jennings
Lawson
Deron






Rose

the Wizards might emerge as a potential destination for Melo at some point.

been a Hartenstein advocate but lets not forget the fact he just went 43rd overall in the draft. That doesn't mean he can't develop but that was his perceived value 3 weeks ago. He'd be a fine "get" but that's not a headliner. That's a solid project.

I think they may just want to start building around KP, Willy & Frank. Hopefully get some draft picks back and go all in on the tank. Hope for Porter/Doncic. If we keep Melo we will be at the same place we were this year. Missing out on guys like Fultz/Ball/Jackson/Tatum. I'm sure Houston knows that we want to tank so we don't have as much leverage. IMO it's an absolute must to get rid of Melo. If he isn't willing to waive his NTC I doubt our deal gets any better at the trade deadline. Houston & Cleveland might not be willing to do a deal at the deadline. In that case we're even worse off as Melo stays for the whole year. We end up drafting around 8th overall and then Melo walks for nothing.

i wasnt saying dont trade him. I was saying trade him to CLE now instead of HOU since at least CLE can give you expirings. The issue with deals with HOU is they have to include Andersons disaster of a deal.

I'm pretty sure Morey cares a lot about what Harden/Paul want. The NBA is a star driven league. The stars run the team. He has to keep them happy. From what I've heard (I've also seen this from others online) D'Antoni doesn't want Melo so that just shows the pull that Harden/CP3 have.

is he healthy. I liked his game for awhile, but the last two years he has been pretty much MIA. Also wish we had offered the Baker deal to Ian Clark, at least he has some upside. I really hate most of these PG's that are out there outside of Rondo and i guess sergio based on the fit. Since those guys are basically off the board id almost rather go with a Tyler Ennis or something then a guy like Lawson or Jennings. I know we want a "vet" but i dont think we really need one.

he cares what they think. Which makes me think it would be quite the risk to lose Melo when your two superstars (one who is very close to Melo and a FA soon) really want him. Especially to lose him over Qi who may or may not be anything. We arent talking about some top 5 pick. I think HOU is just making the smart play here, dont offer more then you have to until you have to. Dont be the knicks and throw in every asset you have just to get the deal done. I think if Morey thinks a trade to CLE is close or the knicks are serious on just keeping him then he ups the offer.

I don't know how interested Cleveland is or how interested Melo is to go there. Not sure which way that goes, but I've heard Melo is deadset on Houston.

At this point to me it doesn't really matter. We absolutely have to get rid of Melo & go full tank. Neither team is going to give us good value on Melo so to me the real highlight of the deal is that our young players can get a ton of playing time & we maybe can end up with Porter/Doncic. Porter is a potential franchise changer. We have to go all in on getting him IMO. A starting 5 of Frank, THJr, Porter, KP, Willy has potential to be pretty good. If everybody develops and reaches their potential.

Free agent PG Greivis Vasquez said he would like to play for the Wizards.
"Hopefully they’re interested, obviously they want to see me healthy," he said. "I’m still in the process of rehabbing, but that would be a great thing for my career, just play the next three or four years in D.C. and help that team, because I know I can help any team, but D.C. is a special city for me." the 30-year-old veteran has played a total of 26 games over the past two seasons and has had trouble staying healthy -- he's had two surgeries on his ankle. While the Wizards need help behind John Wall, they will probably be better off targeting a PG in the draft. Jun 15 - 1:57 PM

In comment 13527980 Italianju said:

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he cares what they think. Which makes me think it would be quite the risk to lose Melo when your two superstars (one who is very close to Melo and a FA soon) really want him. Especially to lose him over Qi who may or may not be anything. We arent talking about some top 5 pick. I think HOU is just making the smart play here, dont offer more then you have to until you have to. Dont be the knicks and throw in every asset you have just to get the deal done. I think if Morey thinks a trade to CLE is close or the knicks are serious on just keeping him then he ups the offer.

Yup I agree 100%. The pause on the trade news that came out last night is the best thing we could have done. Hold out for the best deal possible, but get him traded before the season starts. Deadlines spur action. I'd assume as it gets closer to the season the more desperate they get. I can't see how a team would miss out on the guy they want over the 43rd pick in the 2016 & 2017 draft with no NBA experience at all.

be worth a look
Link - ( New Window )

- Knicks couldn't find a match with Houston

-Mills to meet with Melo hoping Melo will expand his list

-Claims Melo's "camp" leaked the "two yard" stuff

-Knicks called about Bledsoe, Suns countered with trash Knight

-Knicks have "no interest" in Anderson or "other long term deals"


Shockingly "normal" notes here... hopefully they hold strong against taking back shitty deals or Knight (unrelated)

who are you left with?

Maybe Jason Kidd feels he knows how to add Melo to the rotation in Milwaukee?

If Carmelo doesnt care about winning or playing with his friends at this point, we're pretty f*cked.

There is no rush on our part to make a deal happen. Might as well see what you can do and maybe make HOU sweat a bit.

My guess is the best offer we got was Harkless, Hartenstein, and Leonard and some second rounders. No reason at all to do that.

In comment 13527992 DanMetroMan said:

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- Knicks couldn't find a match with Houston -Mills to meet with Melo hoping Melo will expand his list -Claims Melo's "camp" leaked the "two yard" stuff -Knicks called about Bledsoe, Suns countered with trash Knight -Knicks have "no interest" in Anderson or "other long term deals" Shockingly "normal" notes here... hopefully they hold strong against taking back shitty deals or Knight (unrelated)

well we knew the 2 gard lone stuff isola got from leon rose...

hopefully knicks can get melo to expand but my guess he is dead set on houston...

feels loke a team would of taken leonard but houston did not want to gice up and asset to get it done

In comment 13527952 DanMetroMan said:

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Pausing Melo talks is NOT #LOLKNICKS, It's a reset, which makes perfect sense with a new GM (hopefully) about to come on board.

+1.5

for 10 cents on the dollar and the knicks want to trade him 50 cents on the dollar. Houston wants to get him by dumping a horrible contract and thats it.

In comment 13527998 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 13527992 DanMetroMan said: Quote: - Knicks couldn't find a match with Houston -Mills to meet with Melo hoping Melo will expand his list -Claims Melo's "camp" leaked the "two yard" stuff -Knicks called about Bledsoe, Suns countered with trash Knight -Knicks have "no interest" in Anderson or "other long term deals" Shockingly "normal" notes here... hopefully they hold strong against taking back shitty deals or Knight (unrelated) well we knew the 2 gard lone stuff isola got from leon rose... hopefully knicks can get melo to expand but my guess he is dead set on houston... feels loke a team would of taken leonard but houston did not want to gice up and asset to get it done

He can be dead set on Houston all he wants, but it takes two to tango. There is literally 0 that the Rockets have that interest me. I would have taken Dekker and a 1st for Melo, but they traded their only decent assets to LAC.

I agree with Enzo that the Wizards make a lot of sense.

Melo for Gortat, Smith, Oubre, Frazier, Satoransky and two firsts

Makes a ton of sense for both teams. Knicks get a young piece in Oubre, a PG in Frazier, no long term deals and two firsts.

Wiz get easily the best player in the deal and trade nothing but backups.

In comment 13528006 Jon in NYC said:

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In comment 13527998 nygiants16 said: Quote: In comment 13527992 DanMetroMan said: Quote: - Knicks couldn't find a match with Houston -Mills to meet with Melo hoping Melo will expand his list -Claims Melo's "camp" leaked the "two yard" stuff -Knicks called about Bledsoe, Suns countered with trash Knight -Knicks have "no interest" in Anderson or "other long term deals" Shockingly "normal" notes here... hopefully they hold strong against taking back shitty deals or Knight (unrelated) well we knew the 2 gard lone stuff isola got from leon rose... hopefully knicks can get melo to expand but my guess he is dead set on houston... feels loke a team would of taken leonard but houston did not want to gice up and asset to get it done He can be dead set on Houston all he wants, but it takes two to tango. There is literally 0 that the Rockets have that interest me. I would have taken Dekker and a 1st for Melo, but they traded their only decent assets to LAC. I agree with Enzo that the Wizards make a lot of sense. Melo for Gortat, Smith, Oubre, Frazier, Satoransky and two firsts Makes a ton of sense for both teams. Knicks get a young piece in Oubre, a PG in Frazier, no long term deals and two firsts. Wiz get easily the best player in the deal and trade nothing but backups.

Here is the trade. Just have to wait until August 26th for the Wizards to be able to trade Frazier
Link - ( New Window )

and thinks he'll make a difference?

No offense to Perry, who could be universally regarded and an ace as a GM - but what has changed about the Knicks that makes you think he could possibly be successful here?

You still have Mills and Houston at the top. One very successful guy saw that and abruptly did an about face when it was clear the Knicks had no intention of changing it. Why does anyone think Perry will have the autonomy to be successful?

Until the cronies are gone, it doesn't matter who else they hire the product will be the same.

They are not desperate to rid themselves of Melo. We will be very bad with or without him. Might as well hold off until you get everything you want(assets with cap space). It's not too much to ask.

In comment 13528009 jcn56 said:

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and thinks he'll make a difference? No offense to Perry, who could be universally regarded and an ace as a GM - but what has changed about the Knicks that makes you think he could possibly be successful here? You still have Mills and Houston at the top. One very successful guy saw that and abruptly did an about face when it was clear the Knicks had no intention of changing it. Why does anyone think Perry will have the autonomy to be successful? Until the cronies are gone, it doesn't matter who else they hire the product will be the same.

Well two hours in charge and the Knicks did an immediate 180 on the Melo deal, so what's to say he won't have autonomy?

but i am wondering if perry will basically run the basketball part with mills having input and mills will run business side...


i dont think he has autonomy but i am sire he has a lot of say

As pathetic as it may be, is this --- the job would appear to be extremely undesirable. The person who has allegedly accepted the job seems to have some credibility / respect / track record, and walked away from a gig that he took just recently (if I understand correctly).

So one can reasonably infer that Mills (et al) has granted a level of control / autonomy commensurate enough for a desirable candidate to accept the risk of career suicide.

Sure, it could be about the money, by I would expect a guy who's only in his 50s to be weighing the career impact quite heavily in the decision process.

In comment 13528009 jcn56 said:

Quote:

and thinks he'll make a difference? No offense to Perry, who could be universally regarded and an ace as a GM - but what has changed about the Knicks that makes you think he could possibly be successful here? You still have Mills and Houston at the top. One very successful guy saw that and abruptly did an about face when it was clear the Knicks had no intention of changing it. Why does anyone think Perry will have the autonomy to be successful? Until the cronies are gone, it doesn't matter who else they hire the product will be the same.

I'm as critical of the Knicks as anyone on here BUT if you are going to try and be somewhat optimistic the only path to a changing of the braintrust is someone like Perry coming in and giving new ideas that gain the trust of Dolan/Mills etc. I doubt there is a single Knicks fan who would prefer Dolan/Mills/Houston remaining in charge vs. a full changing of the guard but at least Perry is highly respected and a new voice.

Not a knock on the Knicks or Frank, but Lonzo and DSJ looked really good. Lonzo's confidence and unselfishness are infectious to his teammates. I know its only summer league but he doesn't seem overwhelmed at all.

DSJ just looks like a special athlete. Incredibly explosive. Really surprised the Bulls took Markkanenn over him. But DSJ is in a great situation in Dallas. Looking forward to watching him play this season. This has the potential for an all time great rookie class.

but what worries me more is that Isiah Thomas is "shadow" controlling the Knicks.

is that Mills may think he's getting short offers because other teams are testing his ability to do the job. It's not terrible to involve the new guy who may be a more experienced negotiator, but with anything Knicks-related there's always a catch.

Call me highly skeptical that you're getting five players and two picks for Melo. I would like to see the math on that valuation, because I can't see how one could asses his worth that way with anything other than orange and blue goggles on. That's arguably more than the Nuggets got for trading him during his age 26 season when he was a a near top-5 player.

In comment 13528045 Chris684 said:

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but what worries me more is that Isiah Thomas is "shadow" controlling the Knicks.

ok isola

looking a bit more muscular
Link - ( New Window )

I'm as critical as any Knicks fan out there, but I like the Perry move. If Mills takes on a "owner role" as President and truly lets Perry run the basketball side, then maybe this can work. Mills=John Mara, and Perry= Reese- I know that's really looking at the bright side. It was only a few months, but Perry just worked with Vlade and Vivek in Sacramento.

I would have loved for a guy like Masaii to come here and clean house but I'm optimistic about this move. I'm not really disappointed in them missing out on Griffin. Honestly I didn't really like most of his moves with Cleveland and he really just seems like a media darling.

a deal with the Knicks must be pretty bizarre for opposing GM's

Woj had Scott Perry on his podcast a month ago. Talks a lot about his mindset and his experience on the basketball ops side of things. Seems like a smart guy. I especially liked around the 20 minutes remaining mark where he talks about what he wants from a player and his ideas of team success/buying in.
Woj podcast: Scott Perry - ( New Window )

from the shadows? Do you really believe that?

Everything the Knicks do gets bashed. It's the popular thing to do these days and they deserve it. I haven't read a bad thing about Perry or this move for the Knicks, it seems as though its universally approved. That's a good sign.

In comment 13528083 Keith said:

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Everything the Knicks do gets bashed. It's the popular thing to do these days and they deserve it. I haven't read a bad thing about Perry or this move for the Knicks, it seems as though its universally approved. That's a good sign.

I've seen him critiqued for being involved in the Darko decision but that presumably was a groupthink. To this day I think it's sort of BS. Darko had the skill set to be a special NBA player. Guy didn't have the heart/love of the game but when they picked him people weren't laughing at Detroit.

I'm going to be pissed for eternity that the Knicks took fucking Frenchy over Dennis Smith.

Wow,he's got hops.

Is like the Emperor, Mills is Vader. Thomas is lurking in the shadows pulling all the strings!!!!