NFT: Knicks Chat 7/14/2017- One Stop Shopping

Crazy for me?

What can we get? Qi or some other young guy?

The difference between Melo off this team and being on this team is very probably the difference between a 1-2-3 pick or a 7-8-9 pick.

The difference between a Frank Ntkilina and a Lonzo Ball.

What's the worth?

Trade Melo for anything. Be the worst team in the NBA next year.

The Knicks are to going anywhere for at least 3-4 seasons. We can take on virtually any bad deal. Including Ryan Anderson. It gets us closer to 2 top 3 lottery picks over the next 2 years.

In comment 13528085 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 13528083 Keith said: Quote: Everything the Knicks do gets bashed. It's the popular thing to do these days and they deserve it. I haven't read a bad thing about Perry or this move for the Knicks, it seems as though its universally approved. That's a good sign. I've seen him critiqued for being involved in the Darko decision but that presumably was a groupthink. To this day I think it's sort of BS. Darko had the skill set to be a special NBA player. Guy didn't have the heart/love of the game but when they picked him people weren't laughing at Detroit.

Hindsight is 20/20 but hard to get on anyone for the Darko pick. Most drafts without Lebron and Darko is an unanimous number 1 pick. Even when Larry Brown had him, he was convinced Darko was going to be a star.

In comment 13528102 twostepgiants said:

Quote:

Crazy for me? What can we get? Qi or some other young guy? The difference between Melo off this team and being on this team is very probably the difference between a 1-2-3 pick or a 7-8-9 pick. The difference between a Frank Ntkilina and a Lonzo Ball. What's the worth? Trade Melo for anything. Be the worst team in the NBA next year. The Knicks are to going anywhere for at least 3-4 seasons. We can take on virtually any bad deal. Including Ryan Anderson. It gets us closer to 2 top 3 lottery picks over the next 2 years.

1. What's the rush? Those same teams will be available to deal with over the next 3+ months

2. They are trying to force guys like Ryan Anderson and (reportedly) Meyers Leonard on the Knicks. If you aren't even getting back picks or a guy like Qi then the return is a net NEGATIVE. More money committed for a longer period?

right? at least not yet...Kings will offer him more money to say and he will dismiss the dysfunctional Knicks...

as much as anyone here may want it, there is no tank plan.

And yeah, taking on 3 years of a bad contract is a significant downside.

In comment 13528113 Mike in St. Louis said:

Quote:

right? at least not yet...Kings will offer him more money to say and he will dismiss the dysfunctional Knicks...

agreed to between knkcks and perry, kings and knicks working on cash compensation

Good move. They were dealing from weakness. Have to make teams think you want to keep him to get anything of value back. They'll still trade him in time.

In comment 13528086 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

I'm going to be pissed for eternity that the Knicks took fucking Frenchy over Dennis Smith.

Yeah, but triangle!!

What a clusterfuck the Jax era turned out to be.

said the Pacers offered George for Klay Thompson. Not that notable but hadn't seen that previously.

In comment 13528132 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

said the Pacers offered George for Klay Thompson. Not that notable but hadn't seen that previously.

I still can't believe they only got Olidipo and Sabonis for Paul George. How could they not get any picks from OKC? Why not take Kevin Love whos a proven nba all star? That trade made zero sense for Indiana.

He kind of has teams over a barrel.....well, unless the Knicks are a possibility, then you get a windfall in return.

In comment 13528086 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

I'm going to be pissed for eternity that the Knicks took fucking Frenchy over Dennis Smith.

DSJ is all but guaranteed to replace Artest as "guy taken right after the Knicks pick a French prospect who NYK fans go on to lament for years."

In comment 13528086 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

I'm going to be pissed for eternity that the Knicks took fucking Frenchy over Dennis Smith.

You don't know that. Smith could and likely will be the "flashier" player or more prolific scorer but we don't need that. We need the cerebral, hard working, strong silent pass first with defensive chops type. And badly. Desperately. We don't need another Jamal Crawford or highlight reel guard types. Not this team. Not comparing JR to Crawford...u get my point.

Give Frenchy time. He might be everything we need.

I am shocked at the discomfort Knicks fans are displaying with this pick. It's not like Frenchy pick was completely out of nowhere or anywhere near the blatant out in the open misstep when picking Weis over Artest. Weis was not only a reach, Artest was clearly the better prospect. That's not the case here.

Just seems odd to me that Knicks fans are lamenting this kind of pick. If Frenchy peaks he's going to be beloved in NYC. MAybe even more than KP.

Smith could be one of those scorers/-players that looks good on paper but doesn't really have the impact we are looking for here. Or he's a demi-god in waiting.

than KP? C'mon lol Based on what? No knocking Frank but KP has a chance to be a franchise player, Frank does not.

actually praised the Knicks...Knicks smart to refuse to take Ryan Anderson in potential Carmelo Anthony deal

"But the Knicks front office, led now and maybe forever by Steve Mills, is making total financial sense by refusing to take on Anderson and his enormous contract in a proposed trade for Anthony."

Why don't they need a scorer? Outside of Kristaps, who is going to score for this team long term? Willy will pitch in some, but who else?

You go for the most talent in the top ten. You can get solid glue guy types elsewhere.

I hate getting into all these labels. Franchise player and great player and max player...whatever. Frenchy has a chance to be the floor general this franchise has been looking for since Walt Frazier. I want a floor general. A guy that defends and makes the team go. Call that what you will but Frenchy has a good chance to be a legit PG. And yes, NYC will eat that up. I remember when Mark Jackson set this town on fire. Frenchy could be even better.

I don't care about Franchise players. I want a great PG. An underrated PG. Gimme that over the Marbury types any day of the week.

they don't need "talent" as much as they need leadership and intangibles from the PG position. And Frenchy has talent. He's 18 years old and was able to hold his own in a man's league. Give him a chance before bailing on his career.

In comment 13528173 djm said:

Quote:

I am shocked at the discomfort Knicks fans are displaying with this pick. It's not like Frenchy pick was completely out of nowhere or anywhere near the blatant out in the open misstep when picking Weis over Artest. Weis was not only a reach, Artest was clearly the better prospect. That's not the case here. Just seems odd to me that Knicks fans are lamenting this kind of pick. If Frenchy peaks he's going to be beloved in NYC. MAybe even more than KP. Smith could be one of those scorers/-players that looks good on paper but doesn't really have the impact we are looking for here. Or he's a demi-god in waiting.

I think the discomfort comes from the fact that this may have been the most talent rich collegiate draft class since '03, and we took the unknown in a European based off him fitting an archaic system. Calling this a misstep may be premature, but, all things considered, it sure seems like it looks like, swims like, and quacks like a duck.

has an array of talents that we sorely need here. I am on board with the pick. I also fully admit to not knowing much about him other than the vids we have all seen--same as you all.

It's too early but this kid was not a reach, on paper.

But where does everyone get the idea that frank can't be a stud. I'm going to take a chance and say 95% of you who trash him have no fucking clue what his potential is. You just regurgitate things about his ceiling is low. You don't know this to be a fact. Let the kid play and showcase his game

In comment 13528195 djm said:

Quote:

I hate getting into all these labels. Franchise player and great player and max player...whatever. Frenchy has a chance to be the floor general this franchise has been looking for since Walt Frazier. I want a floor general. A guy that defends and makes the team go. Call that what you will but Frenchy has a good chance to be a legit PG. And yes, NYC will eat that up. I remember when Mark Jackson set this town on fire. Frenchy could be even better. I don't care about Franchise players. I want a great PG. An underrated PG. Gimme that over the Marbury types any day of the week.

A franchise player is a player you build around. Stephon Marbury was never considered a "franchise player". Kevin Garnett was. Max player means the view of the player is he's worth max money. It's wonderful to be optimistic about Frank but to call his upside greater than KP's is ridiculous. KP goes #1 overall in this past draft.

if a guy can play in the triangle he can play in any system. Forget that crap. It's over. Even if they fell in love with his so called triangle talents they will translate to any system.

He's a Knick now. See what happens. He's got a unique blend of talents.

ceiling is lower than KP's. That's just a fact based on physical attributes. It's not even really debatable based on facts or "dreaming on the unknown".

How unfair it is to him that the Knicks told him he's being traded and he's been prepared for 2 weeks now and then change their mind. I won't even link the article because it's so slanted. We don't owe this guy a thing. If you want to be traded so bad, open your list pal. Otherwise, shut up.

So I think you're going to keep waiting for that floor general.

MArbury was compared to the best PGs of all time. He came into the NBA with a ton of fan fair and was traded straight up for Jason Kidd after racking up a billion pts/assists early on and no one blamed the Suns for making the deal. Suns? I think it was the Suns and Nets who made that deal...


Marbury was more heralded and shiny than Smith ever was. That was my point. And Smith is a shiny scorer type prospect.

He was rough around the edges and light as a feather, but he's an athletic giant with a nice shooting touch. He has rare attributes. I've never seen anyone tell me what is exceptional about Frank except for wingspan, which is a nice thing to have but doesn't de facto mean he is a great defender.

In comment 13528206 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

ceiling is lower than KP's. That's just a fact based on physical attributes. It's not even really debatable based on facts or "dreaming on the unknown".

JFC Dan I know. I didn't say potential I said BELOVED.

Relax. You can win.

Melo asked Phil for a buyout, Phil said no but that they would work together on a deal to one of his hand picked destinations which explains Isola's article

TIL: The Knicks have been scouting Kuz for at least 7 years now
Link - ( New Window )

Frenchy has middling point guard potential in your world. I do NOT agree. It's laughable that you'd close the book on a kid's ceiling before he can shave but whatever works.

Talk to me in 2 years or so.

In comment 13528213 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 13528206 DanMetroMan said: Quote: ceiling is lower than KP's. That's just a fact based on physical attributes. It's not even really debatable based on facts or "dreaming on the unknown". JFC Dan I know. I didn't say potential I said BELOVED. Relax. You can win.

So if he's Derek Harper 2.0 (an excellent outcome) he's going to be more beloved by fans than a likely perennial all-star? It's great to be high on Frank but you are really inflating his case here. He has a chance to be a very nice piece and good at all facets, KP already has the fan base licking his balls and barring something unforeseen will join Patrick, Frazier, Reed in the pantheon of Knick "greats".

In comment 13528205 djm said:

Quote:

if a guy can play in the triangle he can play in any system. Forget that crap. It's over. Even if they fell in love with his so called triangle talents they will translate to any system. He's a Knick now. See what happens. He's got a unique blend of talents.

what exactly are this talents as of now?

I get the fear factor but the Knicks actually scout young talent as well as most teams if not better than most. It's their FA decision making and overall climate that's been awful.

The Knicks seem to have the euro talent thing down pretty tight. I am not going to lie I give them benefit of the doubt on drafting, to an extent.

In comment 13528224 Enzo said:

Quote:

In comment 13528205 djm said: Quote: if a guy can play in the triangle he can play in any system. Forget that crap. It's over. Even if they fell in love with his so called triangle talents they will translate to any system. He's a Knick now. See what happens. He's got a unique blend of talents. what exactly are this talents as of now?

Cmon dude....

I get that a lot of you don't follow the ACC closely, but while both Marbury and Smith were known for explosive athleticism, they are NOT close comps. Marbury's assist numbers were much lower than Smith despite the fact that Smith was playing with complete garbage while Marbury was on a pretty strong GT squad that featured two guys who played in the NBA (Matt Harpring and Drew Barry). Assists per 40: Smith 7.1, Marbury 4.8.

Smith for the most part tried to be a facilitator and play within the offense, but the simple fact was that he had no one to pass to. Can any of you name two other players on the Wuffies? Probably not, because they all suck ass. When your best passing options are Terry Henderson and a guy best known for his resemblance to Napoleon Dynamite, resorting to heroball is going to happen.

first say knicks should keep melo..then say trade is almost done, then knicks pull out because do not like what they are getting and then kill knicks for being patient and write an article on how he was roght but knicks screwed it up

great height and still growing? Insane wing span for a PG? Defensively gifted? Willingness to fight through screens?
Ability to get skinny when needed? Great head on his shoulders? Unselfish on the court, grounded off it? Able to hold is own with grown men? Very good outside shot, but maybe one that needs a little work IE release? Oh, and EIGHTEEN YEARS OLD.

I know you know this.

amazing Kevin Wilson has been with the Knicks even longer than I realized. Not sure exactly when he was hired but he's been with them for at least 15 years. Crazy they have been "in" on Kuz for 7 years now.

In comment 13528228 djm said:

Quote:

In comment 13528224 Enzo said: Quote: In comment 13528205 djm said: Quote: if a guy can play in the triangle he can play in any system. Forget that crap. It's over. Even if they fell in love with his so called triangle talents they will translate to any system. He's a Knick now. See what happens. He's got a unique blend of talents. what exactly are this talents as of now? Cmon dude....

It was your statement. Everything I've read about this guys screams that he's a huge project. So what's he good at right now? Having long arms doesn't count.

are you really saying Smith is the better PG prospect than MArbury was??????? At best they are equals.

Quote:

Name: Stephon Marbury College: Georgia Tech Height: 6'1" Weight: 180 Born: 2/20/77 Position: Point Guard Other Position: Shooting Guard Strengths: Great overall skills, defense Weaknesses: Streaky shooter His strengths are many, an excelent defender and ballhandler he can control his offense and disrupt the opponents offense. He is a good shooter but is a little streaky (ie inconsistent) and must get better. His range easily goes to three point range. He is a master at breaking down the defense with his dribble and should have no trouble penetrating in the NBA. He has great basketball instincts. All those wonderful strengths aside, Marbury does have some weaknesses: He did not have a good assist to turnover ratio, 161 to 115 (although he showed *much* improvement at the end of the year). He needs to bulk up some, this was apparent the way the physical backcourt of Cincinnati dominated him in the NCAA's. Overall, Marbury is a special player. Like so many he is coming out way to soon and could use an extra year or two to mature as a person. Given some time he will be a star in the NBA for years to come. He should be a top 5 pick.

In comment 13528240 Enzo said:

Quote:

In comment 13528228 djm said: Quote: In comment 13528224 Enzo said: Quote: In comment 13528205 djm said: Quote: if a guy can play in the triangle he can play in any system. Forget that crap. It's over. Even if they fell in love with his so called triangle talents they will translate to any system. He's a Knick now. See what happens. He's got a unique blend of talents. what exactly are this talents as of now? Cmon dude.... It was your statement. Everything I've read about this guys screams that he's a huge project. So what's he good at right now? Having long arms doesn't count.

Shooting and defense

In comment 13528221 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 13528213 djm said: Quote: In comment 13528206 DanMetroMan said: Quote: ceiling is lower than KP's. That's just a fact based on physical attributes. It's not even really debatable based on facts or "dreaming on the unknown". JFC Dan I know. I didn't say potential I said BELOVED. Relax. You can win. So if he's Derek Harper 2.0 (an excellent outcome) he's going to be more beloved by fans than a likely perennial all-star? It's great to be high on Frank but you are really inflating his case here. He has a chance to be a very nice piece and good at all facets, KP already has the fan base licking his balls and barring something unforeseen will join Patrick, Frazier, Reed in the pantheon of Knick "greats".

You like pick weird battles. You're wasting a lot of energy on my saying a good to great PG would be insanely beloved in NYC. Ok fine, no one will like him more than KP. Move on.

In comment 13528195 djm said:

Quote:

I hate getting into all these labels. Franchise player and great player and max player...whatever. Frenchy has a chance to be the floor general this franchise has been looking for since Walt Frazier. I want a floor general. A guy that defends and makes the team go. Call that what you will but Frenchy has a good chance to be a legit PG. And yes, NYC will eat that up. I remember when Mark Jackson set this town on fire. Frenchy could be even better. I don't care about Franchise players. I want a great PG. An underrated PG. Gimme that over the Marbury types any day of the week.

Walt Frazier? If Frank had the potential to be Walt Frazier he would have been the first pick in the draft. "Intangibles and leadership" is nice but talent wins in the NBA. Outside of his length, what does Frank do better than DSJ, Monk or Mitchell? No one describes him as this raw explosive athlete.

I get most people don't like Marbury but he was an awesome nba talent. If Frank ever averages 20 and 9, that pick is a home run. But is anyone projecting that for him? Sure seems like his potential is more of a role player. I would have rather swung for the fences with DSJ, Monk or Mitchell. I hope I'm wrong though.

In comment 13528248 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

In comment 13528240 Enzo said: Quote: In comment 13528228 djm said: Quote: In comment 13528224 Enzo said: Quote: In comment 13528205 djm said: Quote: if a guy can play in the triangle he can play in any system. Forget that crap. It's over. Even if they fell in love with his so called triangle talents they will translate to any system. He's a Knick now. See what happens. He's got a unique blend of talents. what exactly are this talents as of now? Cmon dude.... It was your statement. Everything I've read about this guys screams that he's a huge project. So what's he good at right now? Having long arms doesn't count. Shooting and defense

saying he's a good shooter now would seem to be a huge reach given most reports have him with a slow release and lacking the ability to shoot off the dribble.

who they love more: Phil Simms or Lawrence Taylor. For every 100 fans i'd bet at least 50 of them say Simms. And those same 50 would acknowledge that LT was the best player in NYG history.

Not comparing the players or KP to LT or Joe Blow. Just making a point.

but based on most reports his ball-handling and first step are concerns. His jumper is ok but he doesn't have a quick release and he can't shoot off the dribble. Sorry, but none of this screams "future star PG" to me.

all of a sudden Knicks fans want instant player over long term contributions.

Again, I never said right now. Can you all stop putting words in my mouth?