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NFT: Yankees Thread - 7/14 - Pineda needs TJS

Pego61 : 7/14/2017 12:05 pm
Cashman just announced. He'll get a second opinion, but its a partial UCL tear.

That's the last you'll see of Michael Pineda as a Yankee.
well, that would certainly explain why his performance went down  
Greg from LI : 7/14/2017 12:08 pm : link
the toilet after May.

Kind of at a crossroads here. They could try to acquire pitching for a stretch run, but should they? Should they look to sell instead? Tough decision....I could see it going either way.
I guess that Adams ight get a shot now?  
LarmerTJR : 7/14/2017 12:09 pm : link
Hoping?
Time for Chance Adams  
Kyle in NY : 7/14/2017 12:09 pm : link
Really tough break for Pineda ahead of free agency
Does  
mitch300 : 7/14/2017 12:09 pm : link
Adams get a chance now?
Cashman  
mitch300 : 7/14/2017 12:13 pm : link
says short term Mitchell will start on Sunday in the DH and Cesa in Minny. Per Jack Curry.
Tough news  
EddieNYG : 7/14/2017 12:13 pm : link
Would love to see Chance Adams get called up!
Not sure they will do that  
Greg from LI : 7/14/2017 12:15 pm : link
If they don't think he's ready (and, despite his overall performance, there are some warning signs that he isn't), they aren't going to deviate from their plans to fill a temporary hole.

And, even if they do put Adams in the rotation now, there is going to be a problem late in the year because he is going to get shut down eventually. He was a reliever until last year and has never thrown more than 127 innings. He's already at 92 this year.
damn  
djm : 7/14/2017 12:15 pm : link
that may explain why Pineda was falling apart the last few starts. He was on his way to a career season before this. Sucks. Oh well..next man up.
Time to move on from Pineda.  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/14/2017 12:19 pm : link
I'm fine with any of the other options. Finally time to move on.
MLB can discuss changes all it wants,  
section125 : 7/14/2017 12:21 pm : link
but something needs to be done with the UCLs tearing up like paper on a good percentage of players. Everybody over throwing to reach 95+ mph is likely the cause, but what is the answer?


RE: Not sure they will do that  
Danny Kanell : 7/14/2017 12:21 pm : link
In comment 13528188 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
If they don't think he's ready (and, despite his overall performance, there are some warning signs that he isn't), they aren't going to deviate from their plans to fill a temporary hole.

And, even if they do put Adams in the rotation now, there is going to be a problem late in the year because he is going to get shut down eventually. He was a reliever until last year and has never thrown more than 127 innings. He's already at 92 this year.


Yeah, for that reason I don't think they'll bring him up. I think alot will hinge on this series this weekend. If we lose ground, I think we'll conservatively sell / bring up from within. If we win 3 of 4 or sweep, I think they'll definitely go out and get a pitcher. Probably 2.
From Curry  
mitch300 : 7/14/2017 12:29 pm : link
Bird has inflammation of os trigonum (extra bone behind ankle). Doc says might be his issue. Options? Another cortisone shot or remove bone. Cooper will be called up sometime this weekend in Boston.
RE: MLB can discuss changes all it wants,  
Stu11 : 7/14/2017 12:31 pm : link
In comment 13528197 section125 said:
Quote:
but something needs to be done with the UCLs tearing up like paper on a good percentage of players. Everybody over throwing to reach 95+ mph is likely the cause, but what is the answer?


During the AS game the other night the whole family was watching the first few innings. Its a miracle Sale and Scherzer's UCL's have not snapped already. I was backing it up and replaying as they pitched and FOX was showing it in slow motion. There is no way the elbow ligaments can tolerate being rotated at that torque and speed 100 times or more per game.
With Pineda,  
Pego61 : 7/14/2017 12:31 pm : link
realistically, he's a 4th starter, with stuff that means he should be better than that, but for whatever reason, he's not.

So, if that's the case, if you need to go out and replace Pineda on the trade market, that doesn't mean you need to go shopping at the top end of it. You can get a back end guy if you don't think you have an internal answer, and that will function as a like for like replacement.

Don't panic before the deadline. This team, if healthy, is good enough to make the playoffs as is. And Pineda doesn't really change that.

We're probably not ready to win a championship this year, but if we can get to the playoffs that's great. At the very least, it's a good experience for the young guys.

As an aside, I feel bad for Pineda, going into his walk year. He was inconsistent, but when he was good, he was very good. Sucks he never put it all together.
RE: RE: MLB can discuss changes all it wants,  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/14/2017 12:32 pm : link
In comment 13528217 Stu11 said:
Quote:
In comment 13528197 section125 said:


Quote:


but something needs to be done with the UCLs tearing up like paper on a good percentage of players. Everybody over throwing to reach 95+ mph is likely the cause, but what is the answer?




During the AS game the other night the whole family was watching the first few innings. Its a miracle Sale and Scherzer's UCL's have not snapped already. I was backing it up and replaying as they pitched and FOX was showing it in slow motion. There is no way the elbow ligaments can tolerate being rotated at that torque and speed 100 times or more per game.


Yep. Sales' UCL will eventually go, too. Just a matter of time.
Don't see us selling any time soon  
Stu11 : 7/14/2017 12:33 pm : link
unless the swoon lasts through this road trip and we go like 3-8. Hopefully we can get through this for the short term and see if we can add a 3rd or 4th type ML starter.
Not  
mitch300 : 7/14/2017 12:33 pm : link
pitching CC in Boston. Yanks say he is healthy.
They should be pitching  
Phil in LA : 7/14/2017 12:37 pm : link
Adams and German instead of Mitchell and Cessa.
GD it  
RasputinPrime : 7/14/2017 12:51 pm : link
hopefully we can hold on to Big Mike and he can make his second comeback for us in 2019.

Garrett Cooper called up  
EddieNYG : 7/14/2017 12:51 pm : link
Will make his debut tonight in Boston!
Link - ( New Window )
RE: From Curry  
RasputinPrime : 7/14/2017 12:55 pm : link
In comment 13528212 mitch300 said:
Quote:
Bird has inflammation of os trigonum (extra bone behind ankle). Doc says might be his issue. Options? Another cortisone shot or remove bone. Cooper will be called up sometime this weekend in Boston.


Just want a solution that gets him on the field this year. He can't lose any more development time.
RE: GD it  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/14/2017 12:57 pm : link
In comment 13528263 RasputinPrime said:
Quote:
hopefully we can hold on to Big Mike and he can make his second comeback for us in 2019.


Uh, no.
Sonny Gray?  
old man : 7/14/2017 1:18 pm : link
A SF starter?
Sonny Gray?  
old man : 7/14/2017 1:18 pm : link
A SF starter?
I'd consider a move for Samardzija,  
Pego61 : 7/14/2017 1:21 pm : link
but only if we could move salary in return. That means either Ellsbury or Headley. Which is doubtful.
RE: RE: GD it  
RasputinPrime : 7/14/2017 1:22 pm : link
In comment 13528271 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 13528263 RasputinPrime said:


Quote:


hopefully we can hold on to Big Mike and he can make his second comeback for us in 2019.




Uh, no.


Wishful thinking when I think it is safe to say he isn't going to pitch for us again.
RE: GD it  
nygnyy274 : 7/14/2017 1:23 pm : link
In comment 13528263 RasputinPrime said:
Quote:
hopefully we can hold on to Big Mike and he can make his second comeback for us in 2019.


You got to be kidding?
RE: RE: RE: GD it  
Dave in Hoboken : 7/14/2017 1:25 pm : link
In comment 13528308 RasputinPrime said:
Quote:
In comment 13528271 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


In comment 13528263 RasputinPrime said:


Quote:


hopefully we can hold on to Big Mike and he can make his second comeback for us in 2019.




Uh, no.



Wishful thinking when I think it is safe to say he isn't going to pitch for us again.


Nah. I'm okay with moving on.
RE: RE: RE: MLB can discuss changes all it wants,  
section125 : 7/14/2017 1:29 pm : link
In comment 13528220 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 13528217 Stu11 said:


Quote:


In comment 13528197 section125 said:


Quote:


but something needs to be done with the UCLs tearing up like paper on a good percentage of players. Everybody over throwing to reach 95+ mph is likely the cause, but what is the answer?




During the AS game the other night the whole family was watching the first few innings. Its a miracle Sale and Scherzer's UCL's have not snapped already. I was backing it up and replaying as they pitched and FOX was showing it in slow motion. There is no way the elbow ligaments can tolerate being rotated at that torque and speed 100 times or more per game.



Yep. Sales' UCL will eventually go, too. Just a matter of time.


I don't think Scherzer could have thrown any harder if he wanted to, same with Sale and all that herky - jerky motion for both of them.
RE: RE: MLB can discuss changes all it wants,  
ColHowPepper : 7/14/2017 1:49 pm : link
In comment 13528217 Stu11 said:
Quote:
In comment 13528197 section125 said:

Quote:
but something needs to be done with the UCLs tearing up like paper on a good percentage of players. Everybody over throwing to reach 95+ mph is likely the cause, but what is the answer?

During the AS game the other night the whole family was watching the first few innings. Its a miracle Sale and Scherzer's UCL's have not snapped already. I was backing it up and replaying as they pitched and FOX was showing it in slow motion. There is no way the elbow ligaments can tolerate being rotated at that torque and speed 100 times or more per game.
My bold added.

Bobby Valentine: There was a good interview early afternoon on WFAN with the former Mets' manager, during which the Pineda news came out. Valentine had some very interesting observations: The aggregate pitch count is being mis-used and mis-construed. 100 pitches as a target is ok over 7 innings, e.g., 15 pitches an inning. It's the 30-35 pitch inning that is killing pitchers' arms, in his view, and 105 innings including a 35-pitch inning is a very different, higher stress level on the elbow joint than a 110 pitch inning over 7 or 8.

His example was doing bench presses or curls @ a challenging weight: you might be able to do 5 sets of 10, with resting periods, but try doing TWO sets of 25, you'll strain the shit out of the pecs/biceps on the second set.

I had not heard that analysis before, but it makes some sense. Overall, it was a lively, entertaining interview, w/ Bobby V talking about a number of highlights, Clemens throwing bat at Piazza, how he had to stave off being fired (after his coaching staff was) by promising to go 40 - 15 down the stretch ('99?), other stuff. Smart guy.
RE: With Pineda,  
Matt M. : 7/14/2017 2:02 pm : link
In comment 13528219 Pego61 said:
Quote:
realistically, he's a 4th starter, with stuff that means he should be better than that, but for whatever reason, he's not.

So, if that's the case, if you need to go out and replace Pineda on the trade market, that doesn't mean you need to go shopping at the top end of it. You can get a back end guy if you don't think you have an internal answer, and that will function as a like for like replacement.

Don't panic before the deadline. This team, if healthy, is good enough to make the playoffs as is. And Pineda doesn't really change that.

We're probably not ready to win a championship this year, but if we can get to the playoffs that's great. At the very least, it's a good experience for the young guys.

As an aside, I feel bad for Pineda, going into his walk year. He was inconsistent, but when he was good, he was very good. Sucks he never put it all together.
I have to disagree. If they were going to try to obtain a 4th or 5th starter caliber pitcher, then there is no need for them to obtain anyone. in that case you stand pat with your prospects or sell.
RE: GD it  
Matt M. : 7/14/2017 2:04 pm : link
In comment 13528263 RasputinPrime said:
Quote:
hopefully we can hold on to Big Mike and he can make his second comeback for us in 2019.
You would really want a pitcher returning from TJS who already has shoulder problems? Move on.
Pineda stunk long before his elbow injury  
bxgiants4 : 7/14/2017 2:04 pm : link
Javier Vazquez part 2.

Good riddance
oh, just go away again  
Greg from LI : 7/14/2017 2:06 pm : link
.
This is a year for the kids...  
Dan in the Springs : 7/14/2017 2:18 pm : link
let's get them up here and see them pitch.

I know we have to make some moves because of the 40 man roster, but I really don't want to move quality pieces to try and make a run. I'd rather hold on and see what those quality pieces can do here, even if it means bringing them up a bit before they were scheduled, like Frazier's recent call up.

Watching kids play gives you hope, and is so much more fun than saying goodbye to the kids and bringing in league average players. YES ratings are way up not just because we started out hot. Their up because people are excited to see the new talent come up to find out what they can do.
I have wanted the Yanks  
mavric : 7/14/2017 2:30 pm : link
to hand the ball to Dietrich Enns and see if he can be the complete pitcher he was last year at the AAA level. No matter how minuscule his ERA is and how many wins he chalks up, he's never considered because his fast ball is only in the low 90's. But he's smart and has four quality pitches that he actually can control. Plus he is on the 40 man team so why bother protecting him if there are no plans to ever use him.

Last year he was 7-2 with an era of 1.52 in 14 AAA games. This year though, he is only 1-1 with an era of 1.93 in 5 games. Not sure if he's been injured or if they are only using him in relief instead of starting like last year.

Regardless, he's a pitcher, not a thrower, but these days, everyone seems to only want a flamethrower.
Yes, Enns was injured  
Greg from LI : 7/14/2017 2:40 pm : link
Had a sore shoulder for a while
seems pretty clear  
RasputinPrime : 7/14/2017 2:42 pm : link
that being a starting pitcher is a very risky proposition. I'm not sure velocity is to blame as much as teams are better able to confirm what is going on inside the elbow.

...the more you know...
Sell! Sell! Sell!  
wigs in nyc : 7/14/2017 3:08 pm : link
.
Bobby Valentine  
jacob12 : 7/14/2017 3:37 pm : link
When Bobby was the manager of the Red Sox,he told Andrew Miller to shorten his stride.Valentines suggestion transformed Millers career.Andrew was one of the most erratic pitchers in baseball,now he is a Hall of Fame caliber pitcher.A minor change made a major difference.He has extraordinary stuff,and exceptional control.

Andrew Miller gives Bobby Valentine credit for transforming his career.
RE: Sell! Sell! Sell!  
Greg from LI : 7/14/2017 3:44 pm : link
In comment 13528407 wigs in nyc said:
Quote:
.


Tonight's lineup  
Pego61 : 7/14/2017 3:55 pm : link
Gardner 7
Sanchez 2
Judge 9
Holliday DH
Didi 6
Cooper 3
Ellsbury 8
Headley 5
Torreyes 4

Not sure why Frazier is sitting against a lefty. And welcome Garrett Cooper, who gets to play in a Yankees-Red Sox series in his first ever major league action. That means he'll either have a great series and become a cult hero, or completely flame out. Nothing in between.
Engineers plan, Aaron Judge laughs  
Greg from LI : 7/14/2017 4:28 pm : link
Quote:
Here’s a story for you to add to the legend that is Judge. Back when the engineers from Walter P. Moore were designing the retractable roof of Marlins Park, they set out to determine how high the roof would have to be so as not to interfere with balls in play. They studied the air density and temperatures of Miami and plugged those variables into equations from NASA. Then they wrote an algorithm “to generate a volumetric approximation of all the possible batted ball flight paths” and then applied it to their Building Information Modeling to determine the final geometry of the roof structure.

The engineers finally arrived at a height of 210 feet above the ground at its apex (above second base) to make sure no batted ball hit the roof. It tapered to a low of 128 feet above the ground in deep right-centerfield........

.....Then Judge showed up and hit the roof with a Home Run Derby blast. The Marlins estimated that it cleared one girder and smacked against another at a height off the ground of about 170 feet in deep left-centerfield. Think about that: about 17 stories high after traveling about 300 feet.

Link - ( New Window )
Holding out hope for Mitchell  
davek3698 : 7/14/2017 4:35 pm : link
Still has top notch FB/CB combo. Hoping his new slider plays as his change of speed, 3rd pitch offering. Yanks must still believe in him as well, to an extent. We'll see on Sunday.
Monty  
mitch300 : 7/14/2017 4:40 pm : link
is starting tonight. Strange that don't start Severino who did not pitch in the ASG.Back in the day you would try to avoid lefties pitching in Fenway.
RE: Engineers plan, Aaron Judge laughs  
Del Shofner : 7/14/2017 4:51 pm : link
In comment 13528486 Greg from LI said:
Quote:


Quote:


Here’s a story for you to add to the legend that is Judge. Back when the engineers from Walter P. Moore were designing the retractable roof of Marlins Park, they set out to determine how high the roof would have to be so as not to interfere with balls in play. They studied the air density and temperatures of Miami and plugged those variables into equations from NASA. Then they wrote an algorithm “to generate a volumetric approximation of all the possible batted ball flight paths” and then applied it to their Building Information Modeling to determine the final geometry of the roof structure.

The engineers finally arrived at a height of 210 feet above the ground at its apex (above second base) to make sure no batted ball hit the roof. It tapered to a low of 128 feet above the ground in deep right-centerfield........

.....Then Judge showed up and hit the roof with a Home Run Derby blast. The Marlins estimated that it cleared one girder and smacked against another at a height off the ground of about 170 feet in deep left-centerfield. Think about that: about 17 stories high after traveling about 300 feet.

Link - ( New Window )


Ha - that is awesome!
Another Girardi special  
PaulN : 7/14/2017 4:53 pm : link
Every game he does something to fuck up the lineup, no Castro, no Frazier.
Girardi makes  
Phil in LA : 7/14/2017 4:54 pm : link
It harder to win. Enjoy Clippard in a high leverage situation!
If Frazier  
PaulN : 7/14/2017 4:56 pm : link
Did hit a homer last game then that explains why he is not playing today, Joe benches you after you hit a homer. Of coarse I am being sarcastic, have to say that around here, but his lineups have been horrendous this year.
RE: Another Girardi special  
Del Shofner : 7/14/2017 5:02 pm : link
In comment 13528504 PaulN said:
Quote:
Every game he does something to fuck up the lineup, no Castro, no Frazier.


I take your point on Frazier - but isn't Castro still re-habbing with Trenton? He was yesterday.
If Holliday wasn't back  
EddieNYG : 7/14/2017 5:29 pm : link
Frazier would be in the lineup, IMO.
I've been told Girardi  
xman : 7/14/2017 6:01 pm : link
is a top 5 manager. One of the BBI people said it as fact.
Odd lineup in this sense...  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 7/14/2017 6:45 pm : link
They made it a point for Romine to catch Monty each of his last 7 starts (to great results), but now they start him today when they easily could've moved him back to the doubleheader? Sanchez has solid SSS numbers against Pomeranz.

Gardner and Ellsbury also both have decent to good numbers versus Pomeranz. I'd still prefer Frazier at one of those spots, but that's probably why he went with those 2.
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