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NFT: I don't know what to say.

T-Bone : 7/14/2017 2:38 pm
Might as well been a room full of Klansman. All that's different is the uniform.

I've always been of the belief that not ALL... or even most... cops are bad. But seeing something like this... happening in a room full of them at a party... this shakes that belief some.

Then some question why the slogan 'Black Lives Matter'. You wonder why? This is why. But I'm sure there's SOME excuse for it that someone will give me.

This is absolutely disgusting. And to see some guys walking out smiling... like they're at a fucking wedding reception... unbelievable.
Everyone sing along!!!! If that's your thing anyway... - ( New Window )
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RE: I'm with you T-Bone  
christian : 7/15/2017 6:32 pm : link
In comment 13528961 pjcas18 said:
Quote:

I do not, unlike Christian above, pretend I have the ability to see into people's hearts and guess their intent or character.


I'm willing to concede, sure, in a social, loud setting chances are some folks might not be making out what's being said.

For those who can, especially those in the video enjoying it, I don't need a preternatural ability to look into someone's heart to know it's gross at best to sit back at a police officer's retirment party and revel in a song about a controversial killing.
RE: I'm with you T-Bone  
T-Bone : 7/15/2017 7:21 pm : link
In comment 13528961 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
the only thing I don't know is how many people were even paying attention to the music or the song, I've been in settings like that at elks clubs or rod and gun club halls volunteer fire depts or even just a bar or a wedding reception, and with the conversation, etc. I couldn't tell you what was being played by a band or DJ.

I do not, unlike Christian above, pretend I have the ability to see into people's hearts and guess their intent or character.

the song was awful, anyone writing it, singing it, laughing at it or ok with it deserves your wrath, but I'm not willing to sit in judgment on everyone in attendance and see into their hearts.

and I feel like I'm consistent with that regardless of circumstances. I just don't judge people unless I know for sure, and you probably notice I'm especially sensitive on race issues and people being branded racist, I grew up in the projects most of my life raised by a single mother, and there was racial tension daily and I just feel like being called a racist or a bigot is impossible to defend, and it's a devastating accusation to make about someone without knowing what's in their heart.

but I support and respect your opinion, you've walked your whole life in shoes I never did, so I like your posts, your perspective and appreciate your willingness to provide them on here even with the occasional disagreements you face.


Honestly pj... this isn't about walking in my shoes. This is just wrong on a basic fucked up level. Ok... it's been determined in a court of law that the officer was right to shoot and kill Brown. Period. That's been acknowledged. But here it is... just a few months afterwards... and this guy doesn't just make up this song but admits to thinking the crowd would enjoy it... and it APPEARS he was correct. I don't see anyone angry... save for the person who videotaped it supposedly.

I don't have much else to say. It doesn't matter the race of the guy he's singing about. Even if he was white or Hispanic it would be fucked up. Anyway,, I'm done.
RE: RE: I'm with you T-Bone  
pjcas18 : 7/15/2017 7:42 pm : link
In comment 13529018 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 13528961 pjcas18 said:


Quote:



I do not, unlike Christian above, pretend I have the ability to see into people's hearts and guess their intent or character.



I'm willing to concede, sure, in a social, loud setting chances are some folks might not be making out what's being said.

For those who can, especially those in the video enjoying it, I don't need a preternatural ability to look into someone's heart to know it's gross at best to sit back at a police officer's retirment party and revel in a song about a controversial killing.


Maybe I watched a different video, I see one man walking out of the hall after what appears to be a conversation and he's smiling, I assume he was smiling based on his conversation that I will not pretend to know the context of, did he say "isn't this song awesome?" maybe, but maybe he said "that chick is so fat" and thought that was funny, how the F do I know the context of why he's smiling, but he was clearly talking to someone before leaving the room, that's the only one I see even smiling in the entire video, the rest of the video mostly shows the carpet, I cannot watch that video and I've watched it tons of times and say I see tons of people (or even any people) laughing, dancing, and singing about an offensive song, akin to a Klan rally.

that's the leap I'm not making.

It was an offensive song, the singer should bear the brunt of the offended, the organizer of the party should maybe bear some responsibility for having a racist singer, but I don't know how you convict everyone else in the room.

linked is the only video I've seen, so if there are others that show people yucking it up, please link them. We're not looking at the same thing.
Link - again - ( New Window )
No... it's the same video..  
T-Bone : 7/15/2017 8:38 pm : link
... just a different perspective I suppose.

I'm ready to move on. As was said earlier, it happened years ago and my initial shock and anger has worn off. I've said all I can at this point.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Btw, i know this will be mostly ignored  
halfback20 : 7/15/2017 11:52 pm : link
In comment 13528951 T-Bone said:
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In comment 13528884 halfback20 said:


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In comment 13528865 T-Bone said:


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In comment 13528857 halfback20 said:


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So the outrage from a 2014 video can continue...BUT...

Do you assume they're all police because "filmingcops.com" tells you so?

I did a little research. The party was part of a charity golf event and was put on by a police officer that has been retired for 10 years. There were about 60 people there, about half of which were associated with law enforcement, most of those retired.

If you can figure out how many enjoying the song were active pplice officers, I'd be interested in having that info.



As it should be ignored since...

1) you haven't provided any kind of link yet

and 2) as usual, you're downplaying the incident.






Figured you were capable of using Google to find a more reliable source than what you posted.

And im not downplaying anything. I provided more information.

You aren't interested in discussion, clearly.



Figured you'd think a site like TMZ was a 'reliable source'. Who knew?

The number of cops who may or may not have been there? Thanks I guess. Really the only pertinent piece of information you gave is that the singer of the song thought that it would've been appropriate to sing at a retiree's party... no matter how many cops were in the room. The fact he could think that beforehand should tell you all you need to know about the character of the people he was expecting to perform in front of... but I'm sure you'll excuse that (or yes, downplay, that too).

And yes... I'm not interested in discussing this with you as I already know it's pointless.


Was the guy singing a police officer? I don't know. I don't know how many were police officers. I know most people there that had ties to law enfor ement are retired and no longer police.

What have i downplayed? Ive provided more information since you're using this as an excuse to judge police as a whole. This is a video almost 3 years old, and you don't have a clue who is or isnt a cop in the video since most people at the party were not cops.

You dont like it when another perspective, or facts, get in the way of a good anti cop thread.
RE: The song is f({ked up, out of line, inappropriate, you name it.  
halfback20 : 7/15/2017 11:53 pm : link
In comment 13528782 ktinsc said:
Quote:
There should be no place for it anywhere in our society.

The video shows exactly ONE individual smiling as he walks out of the room where the song is being played. There are others sitting at a table in the background but I couldn't make much of their behavior from the film. The guy walking out of the room could literally be smiling about having just seen someone he hadn't seen since he retired. He may not have even been aware of the song in the background.

What I don't see is a group huddled and clapping or nodding in agreement with the lyrics. There is no justification for the lyrics so please don't misinterpret that I'm trying to justify them. The song sucks but I don't see these people celebrating the song itself. They may have been but I just don't see it in the video.


Agreed. But dont let that stop anyone from assuming everyone in the building is a cop, they were all listening to the lyrics and they all agreed with it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: You don't have to think Michael Brown was a saint,  
halfback20 : 7/15/2017 11:55 pm : link
In comment 13528954 T-Bone said:
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In comment 13528886 halfback20 said:


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In comment 13528864 T-Bone said:


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In comment 13528854 halfback20 said:


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In comment 13528472 T-Bone said:


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In comment 13528453 Greg from LI said:


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or even that his death wasn't justified, to find that video disgusting. I shed no particular tears for Michael Brown but cmon - singing a song like that amid gales of stupid laughter is just sick.

The grinning shitheads in the "I Can Breathe" shirts are even more disgusting.



Precisely.

It's not like the kid went on a shooting spree and killed dozens of innocent people in the street or caused major heartache to anyone or group of people. This was a kid who made some bad choices and paid the ultimate price for those choices. To celebrate his death as if he was Hitler or Osama Bin Laden... just doesn't make any sense. And anyone trying to defend it doesn't make much more sense to me either.



Are you talking about Michael Brown? Bad choices? He tried to take a police officers gun. He attcked a police officer. You're outraged by this video (i think they are stupid for participating in the song and the person who wrote it is an idiot, but it isnt an indictment on all cops) but what Michael Brown did was just make some bad choices? Lol

The people in the video made bad choices.



And here's the other Les.

As if him allegedly trying to take the cop's gun wasn't a 'choice' he made... it HAS to be something else... something more... sinister I'm guessing.

And it isn't an indictment on all cops... just the ones (of which there were more than a few) that were there enjoying the entertainment. But please... continue to defend disgusting and wrong behavior... it's what some folks in this country have made a habit of doing it seems.



My point was that trying to murder a police officer is worse than a "bad choice".

Where did i defend anything?

How do you know how many people playing and singing along are cops?




Yeah... he made a bad choice to try to allegedly kill the cop. Still have no idea what you're trying to say.

Don't feel like getting into it.

I can clearly see and hear laughter and not one bit of yelling nor booing and that video last more than a minute. If anyone wasn't enjoying the song I'd think you'd at least hear SOME booing and pissed off patrons. But no... you see one guy with a big ass smile on his face walking in. At some point common sense should kick in here...


So you think one video showing the reaction of one person is enough to judge everyone in attendance?
RE: RE: RE: ...  
halfback20 : 7/15/2017 11:58 pm : link
In comment 13528955 T-Bone said:
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In comment 13528895 halfback20 said:


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In comment 13528891 christian said:


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This topic always brings me back to wise thoughts I've heard from other and some of my own thinking in no particular order.

- The high IQ leaders in groups are best served ignoring the desire of low IQ agitators when trying to solve problems
- Just listen when someone has a gun on you, and figure out the fairness after
- Instigating a problem and then having to defend yourself with violence is indefensible
- The bravery of law enforcement is measured in the face of danger and in confronting unfairness no matter the culprit

Regardless of who was enjoying or not enjoying it, I don't see anyone putting a stop to it - and whether they are current or former law enforcement - doesn't really matter. Everyone in that video is a grade A coward and doesn't strike as the type who are part of the solution.



It does matter who is in the video since the OP is using it as a way to judge police in general.


"I've always been of the belief that not ALL... or even most... cops are bad. But seeing something like this... happening in a room full of them at a party... this shakes that belief some."



Again... one or two cops... ok, a few bad apples,

At least over 30? That's a problem.

Instead of being mad at me why isn't you anger directed at the song, songwriter and those in the crowd? You appear to be bothered more by what's been shown to light than what that light showed... why?


At least over 30? You're math isn't very good.

Half of 60 is 30. Thst means around half were cops, most of those 30 were retired cops.

I am not mad. I have said the song and anyone who agreed with it or laughed at it was wrong. Difference is, i don't assume everyone there is a cop and everyone there loved it.

Maybe everyone there did enjoy it. In that case they are wrong. But you haven't provided anything proving that, you are merely speculating.
RE: RE: I'm with you T-Bone  
halfback20 : 7/16/2017 12:00 am : link
In comment 13529018 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 13528961 pjcas18 said:


Quote:



I do not, unlike Christian above, pretend I have the ability to see into people's hearts and guess their intent or character.



I'm willing to concede, sure, in a social, loud setting chances are some folks might not be making out what's being said.

For those who can, especially those in the video enjoying it, I don't need a preternatural ability to look into someone's heart to know it's gross at best to sit back at a police officer's retirment party and revel in a song about a controversial killing.


It was NOT a police officers retirement party. A retired police officer threw the party as part of a charity event.
It makes no sense to me  
Natek212 : 7/16/2017 1:08 am : link
How people compare some lowlife scumbag blasting "Fuck the police" during a cops funeral to a group of PAID PUBLIC SERVANTS who are singing gleefully about how one of their own gunned down an unarmed black man.

If you can't see the difference between these two instances, you're a complete idiot.
RE: It makes no sense to me  
halfback20 : 7/16/2017 2:16 am : link
In comment 13529214 Natek212 said:
Quote:
How people compare some lowlife scumbag blasting "Fuck the police" during a cops funeral to a group of PAID PUBLIC SERVANTS who are singing gleefully about how one of their own gunned down an unarmed black man.

If you can't see the difference between these two instances, you're a complete idiot.

Tell me, which people in the video were singing along? Which ones were paid public servants?
RE: RE: It makes no sense to me  
Natek212 : 7/16/2017 9:15 am : link
In comment 13529220 halfback20 said:
Quote:
In comment 13529214 Natek212 said:


Quote:


How people compare some lowlife scumbag blasting "Fuck the police" during a cops funeral to a group of PAID PUBLIC SERVANTS who are singing gleefully about how one of their own gunned down an unarmed black man.

If you can't see the difference between these two instances, you're a complete idiot.


Tell me, which people in the video were singing along? Which ones were paid public servants?


It was a police event, so I can only imagine a large number of current and former police officers were there. And no one seemed to protest the song being played. It seemed like it was normal to them.

Again, the fact that people can't just watch this video and say "That's disgusting," but instead feel the need to point out what other random black people did wrong says a lot about you.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Btw, i know this will be mostly ignored  
T-Bone : 7/16/2017 9:42 am : link
In comment 13529198 halfback20 said:
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In comment 13528951 T-Bone said:


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In comment 13528884 halfback20 said:


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In comment 13528865 T-Bone said:


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In comment 13528857 halfback20 said:


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So the outrage from a 2014 video can continue...BUT...

Do you assume they're all police because "filmingcops.com" tells you so?

I did a little research. The party was part of a charity golf event and was put on by a police officer that has been retired for 10 years. There were about 60 people there, about half of which were associated with law enforcement, most of those retired.

If you can figure out how many enjoying the song were active pplice officers, I'd be interested in having that info.



As it should be ignored since...

1) you haven't provided any kind of link yet

and 2) as usual, you're downplaying the incident.






Figured you were capable of using Google to find a more reliable source than what you posted.

And im not downplaying anything. I provided more information.

You aren't interested in discussion, clearly.



Figured you'd think a site like TMZ was a 'reliable source'. Who knew?

The number of cops who may or may not have been there? Thanks I guess. Really the only pertinent piece of information you gave is that the singer of the song thought that it would've been appropriate to sing at a retiree's party... no matter how many cops were in the room. The fact he could think that beforehand should tell you all you need to know about the character of the people he was expecting to perform in front of... but I'm sure you'll excuse that (or yes, downplay, that too).

And yes... I'm not interested in discussing this with you as I already know it's pointless.



Was the guy singing a police officer? I don't know. I don't know how many were police officers. I know most people there that had ties to law enfor ement are retired and no longer police.

What have i downplayed? Ive provided more information since you're using this as an excuse to judge police as a whole. This is a video almost 3 years old, and you don't have a clue who is or isnt a cop in the video since most people at the party were not cops.

You dont like it when another perspective, or facts, get in the way of a good anti cop thread.


As if the FACT that SOME in the audience were retired cops makes it ok. These former cops were once active cops ya know. But keep hanging your hat on that.

And it doesn't much matter whether the singer is a cop himself or not, the fact that he feels comfortable enough to openly state that he figured the song would've gone over well with the crowd speaks volumes.

So feel free to stick to your excuses.
RE: RE: The song is f({ked up, out of line, inappropriate, you name it.  
T-Bone : 7/16/2017 9:50 am : link
In comment 13529200 halfback20 said:
Quote:
In comment 13528782 ktinsc said:


Quote:


There should be no place for it anywhere in our society.

The video shows exactly ONE individual smiling as he walks out of the room where the song is being played. There are others sitting at a table in the background but I couldn't make much of their behavior from the film. The guy walking out of the room could literally be smiling about having just seen someone he hadn't seen since he retired. He may not have even been aware of the song in the background.

What I don't see is a group huddled and clapping or nodding in agreement with the lyrics. There is no justification for the lyrics so please don't misinterpret that I'm trying to justify them. The song sucks but I don't see these people celebrating the song itself. They may have been but I just don't see it in the video.




Agreed. But dont let that stop anyone from assuming everyone in the building is a cop, they were all listening to the lyrics and they all agreed with it.


As if the number of officers in the room really matters? It was played at an event celebrating a retiree. If this was a Black Lives Matter event... and you heard a singer singing 'Fry em like bacon!', I'm sure you'd be this forgiving wouldn't you? I'm sure you'd point out that not everyone in there may not have been part of the BLM movement... and that not everyone is seen singing along too right?

Riiiiiiight....
RE: RE: It makes no sense to me  
T-Bone : 7/16/2017 9:52 am : link
In comment 13529220 halfback20 said:
Quote:
In comment 13529214 Natek212 said:


Quote:


How people compare some lowlife scumbag blasting "Fuck the police" during a cops funeral to a group of PAID PUBLIC SERVANTS who are singing gleefully about how one of their own gunned down an unarmed black man.

If you can't see the difference between these two instances, you're a complete idiot.


Tell me, which people in the video were singing along? Which ones were paid public servants?


Doesn't matter... video goes on for over a minute and you don't hear the least bit of protests coming from the room. Common sense tells me that even if they weren't singing along, it doesn't appear that anyone is protesting the song either.
RE: RE: RE: The song is f({ked up, out of line, inappropriate, you name it.  
halfback20 : 7/16/2017 10:37 am : link
In comment 13529269 T-Bone said:
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In comment 13529200 halfback20 said:


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In comment 13528782 ktinsc said:


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There should be no place for it anywhere in our society.

The video shows exactly ONE individual smiling as he walks out of the room where the song is being played. There are others sitting at a table in the background but I couldn't make much of their behavior from the film. The guy walking out of the room could literally be smiling about having just seen someone he hadn't seen since he retired. He may not have even been aware of the song in the background.

What I don't see is a group huddled and clapping or nodding in agreement with the lyrics. There is no justification for the lyrics so please don't misinterpret that I'm trying to justify them. The song sucks but I don't see these people celebrating the song itself. They may have been but I just don't see it in the video.




Agreed. But dont let that stop anyone from assuming everyone in the building is a cop, they were all listening to the lyrics and they all agreed with it.



As if the number of officers in the room really matters? It was played at an event celebrating a retiree. If this was a Black Lives Matter event... and you heard a singer singing 'Fry em like bacon!', I'm sure you'd be this forgiving wouldn't you? I'm sure you'd point out that not everyone in there may not have been part of the BLM movement... and that not everyone is seen singing along too right?

Riiiiiiight....


Everything I read said this party was hosted by a retired officer as part of a charity event.

The retired officer had been retired 7 years at the time.

How was it celebrating him?

RE: RE: RE: It makes no sense to me  
halfback20 : 7/16/2017 10:38 am : link
In comment 13529255 Natek212 said:
Quote:
In comment 13529220 halfback20 said:


Quote:


In comment 13529214 Natek212 said:


Quote:


How people compare some lowlife scumbag blasting "Fuck the police" during a cops funeral to a group of PAID PUBLIC SERVANTS who are singing gleefully about how one of their own gunned down an unarmed black man.

If you can't see the difference between these two instances, you're a complete idiot.


Tell me, which people in the video were singing along? Which ones were paid public servants?



It was a police event, so I can only imagine a large number of current and former police officers were there. And no one seemed to protest the song being played. It seemed like it was normal to them.

Again, the fact that people can't just watch this video and say "That's disgusting," but instead feel the need to point out what other random black people did wrong says a lot about you.


It wasnt a police event.

Around 60 people were there. Half were law enforcement, most of those were retired.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Btw, i know this will be mostly ignored  
halfback20 : 7/16/2017 10:50 am : link
In comment 13529266 T-Bone said:
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In comment 13529198 halfback20 said:


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In comment 13528951 T-Bone said:


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In comment 13528884 halfback20 said:


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In comment 13528865 T-Bone said:


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In comment 13528857 halfback20 said:


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So the outrage from a 2014 video can continue...BUT...

Do you assume they're all police because "filmingcops.com" tells you so?

I did a little research. The party was part of a charity golf event and was put on by a police officer that has been retired for 10 years. There were about 60 people there, about half of which were associated with law enforcement, most of those retired.

If you can figure out how many enjoying the song were active pplice officers, I'd be interested in having that info.



As it should be ignored since...

1) you haven't provided any kind of link yet

and 2) as usual, you're downplaying the incident.






Figured you were capable of using Google to find a more reliable source than what you posted.

And im not downplaying anything. I provided more information.

You aren't interested in discussion, clearly.



Figured you'd think a site like TMZ was a 'reliable source'. Who knew?

The number of cops who may or may not have been there? Thanks I guess. Really the only pertinent piece of information you gave is that the singer of the song thought that it would've been appropriate to sing at a retiree's party... no matter how many cops were in the room. The fact he could think that beforehand should tell you all you need to know about the character of the people he was expecting to perform in front of... but I'm sure you'll excuse that (or yes, downplay, that too).

And yes... I'm not interested in discussing this with you as I already know it's pointless.



Was the guy singing a police officer? I don't know. I don't know how many were police officers. I know most people there that had ties to law enfor ement are retired and no longer police.

What have i downplayed? Ive provided more information since you're using this as an excuse to judge police as a whole. This is a video almost 3 years old, and you don't have a clue who is or isnt a cop in the video since most people at the party were not cops.

You dont like it when another perspective, or facts, get in the way of a good anti cop thread.



As if the FACT that SOME in the audience were retired cops makes it ok. These former cops were once active cops ya know. But keep hanging your hat on that.

And it doesn't much matter whether the singer is a cop himself or not, the fact that he feels comfortable enough to openly state that he figured the song would've gone over well with the crowd speaks volumes.

So feel free to stick to your excuses.


I dont make excuses. If theyre wrong, theyre wrong. I tend to prefer facts and prof, of which fhere is very little here to indict anyone other than the singer.

I have already said the singer is wrong, and anyone singing along or enjoying the song is wrong.

My argument is we don't know how many people were listening, enjoying it, etc. We dont know how many people there are paid active police officers. YOU presented it as a "room full of them". You dont know that, cant prove that and refuse to admit that.

You keep attacking me because i refuse to indict all people there and all police. Not going to happen. You can say i defend police every chance i get but that's not true, i just like to get the entire story. I am always skeptical especially when the first link posted is filmingcops.com.

Fact is this...it was a stupid song. However, most people at this party were NOT active police officers. Police departments and all police in this country shouldn't be judged by actions of those who haven't been a cop in 10 years. You can't possibly think that.
RE: RE: Maybe you can start your next thread  
njm : 7/16/2017 2:12 pm : link
In comment 13528581 T-Bone said:
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In comment 13528575 Chris684 said:


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about how 16 year old children in this country are shitting on the memory of slain police officers DURING their funerals.



Or you can.

I'm really not sure what your point is.


Actually, the first thing that came to my mind when I saw this was the Westboro Baptist Church. And while I realize the NY Post is not known for it's cutting edge investigative journalism, their failure to find any evidence whatsoever of a brother or friend being killed make me more than a little suspicious of his story.

But here's an important difference. As disgusting and racist and fucked up as the singing a song about Michael Brown was, they weren't singing it across the street from his funeral.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Btw, i know this will be mostly ignored  
T-Bone : 7/16/2017 2:24 pm : link
In comment 13529295 halfback20 said:
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In comment 13529266 T-Bone said:


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In comment 13529198 halfback20 said:


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In comment 13528951 T-Bone said:


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In comment 13528884 halfback20 said:


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In comment 13528865 T-Bone said:


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In comment 13528857 halfback20 said:


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So the outrage from a 2014 video can continue...BUT...

Do you assume they're all police because "filmingcops.com" tells you so?

I did a little research. The party was part of a charity golf event and was put on by a police officer that has been retired for 10 years. There were about 60 people there, about half of which were associated with law enforcement, most of those retired.

If you can figure out how many enjoying the song were active pplice officers, I'd be interested in having that info.



As it should be ignored since...

1) you haven't provided any kind of link yet

and 2) as usual, you're downplaying the incident.






Figured you were capable of using Google to find a more reliable source than what you posted.

And im not downplaying anything. I provided more information.

You aren't interested in discussion, clearly.



Figured you'd think a site like TMZ was a 'reliable source'. Who knew?

The number of cops who may or may not have been there? Thanks I guess. Really the only pertinent piece of information you gave is that the singer of the song thought that it would've been appropriate to sing at a retiree's party... no matter how many cops were in the room. The fact he could think that beforehand should tell you all you need to know about the character of the people he was expecting to perform in front of... but I'm sure you'll excuse that (or yes, downplay, that too).

And yes... I'm not interested in discussing this with you as I already know it's pointless.



Was the guy singing a police officer? I don't know. I don't know how many were police officers. I know most people there that had ties to law enfor ement are retired and no longer police.

What have i downplayed? Ive provided more information since you're using this as an excuse to judge police as a whole. This is a video almost 3 years old, and you don't have a clue who is or isnt a cop in the video since most people at the party were not cops.

You dont like it when another perspective, or facts, get in the way of a good anti cop thread.



As if the FACT that SOME in the audience were retired cops makes it ok. These former cops were once active cops ya know. But keep hanging your hat on that.

And it doesn't much matter whether the singer is a cop himself or not, the fact that he feels comfortable enough to openly state that he figured the song would've gone over well with the crowd speaks volumes.

So feel free to stick to your excuses.



I dont make excuses. If theyre wrong, theyre wrong. I tend to prefer facts and prof, of which fhere is very little here to indict anyone other than the singer.

I have already said the singer is wrong, and anyone singing along or enjoying the song is wrong.

My argument is we don't know how many people were listening, enjoying it, etc. We dont know how many people there are paid active police officers. YOU presented it as a "room full of them". You dont know that, cant prove that and refuse to admit that.

You keep attacking me because i refuse to indict all people there and all police. Not going to happen. You can say i defend police every chance i get but that's not true, i just like to get the entire story. I am always skeptical especially when the first link posted is filmingcops.com.

Fact is this...it was a stupid song. However, most people at this party were NOT active police officers. Police departments and all police in this country shouldn't be judged by actions of those who haven't been a cop in 10 years. You can't possibly think that.


I'm not attacking you.

You're right. I don't think all LE officers are this bad. But I do believe that a majority of this specific LE department (the Ferguson PD) are. This is not a department that's been found to be a good one already. So I'm not sure why it's so hard to believe that this actually occurred the way it appears in the video.

I don't see why it matters how many officers there were active or retired. You continuously stating that it was mostly retired officers doesn't make it any better because they were once active and thus who knows what kind of evil things were performed during this period. That's the excuse that you seem to want to cling to... that because it happened in a room half full with retired policemen that that somehow makes it ok, and it doesn't.
RE: RE: RE: Maybe you can start your next thread  
T-Bone : 7/16/2017 2:27 pm : link
In comment 13529393 njm said:
Quote:
In comment 13528581 T-Bone said:


Quote:


In comment 13528575 Chris684 said:


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about how 16 year old children in this country are shitting on the memory of slain police officers DURING their funerals.



Or you can.

I'm really not sure what your point is.



Actually, the first thing that came to my mind when I saw this was the Westboro Baptist Church. And while I realize the NY Post is not known for it's cutting edge investigative journalism, their failure to find any evidence whatsoever of a brother or friend being killed make me more than a little suspicious of his story.

But here's an important difference. As disgusting and racist and fucked up as the singing a song about Michael Brown was, they weren't singing it across the street from his funeral.


The fact that this kind of stuff goes on behind closed doors is worse to me. At least with the Westboro Baptist group they out front with their ignorance. I'd rather be able to see the devil as he is than as a person or group that hides their evil ways in a back room county club or whatever.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Maybe you can start your next thread  
njm : 7/16/2017 3:10 pm : link
In comment 13529404 T-Bone said:
Quote:
I'd rather be able to see the devil as he is than as a person or group that hides their evil ways in a back room county club or whatever.


As a general statement I would agree. But when it's specifically about across the street from a funeral where a 20 year old daughter and 11 year old twins are burying their mother I strongly disagree.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Btw, i know this will be mostly ignored  
halfback20 : 7/16/2017 4:10 pm : link
In comment 13529400 T-Bone said:
Quote:
In comment 13529295 halfback20 said:


Quote:


In comment 13529266 T-Bone said:


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In comment 13529198 halfback20 said:


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In comment 13528951 T-Bone said:


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In comment 13528884 halfback20 said:


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In comment 13528865 T-Bone said:


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In comment 13528857 halfback20 said:


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So the outrage from a 2014 video can continue...BUT...

Do you assume they're all police because "filmingcops.com" tells you so?

I did a little research. The party was part of a charity golf event and was put on by a police officer that has been retired for 10 years. There were about 60 people there, about half of which were associated with law enforcement, most of those retired.

If you can figure out how many enjoying the song were active pplice officers, I'd be interested in having that info.



As it should be ignored since...

1) you haven't provided any kind of link yet

and 2) as usual, you're downplaying the incident.






Figured you were capable of using Google to find a more reliable source than what you posted.

And im not downplaying anything. I provided more information.

You aren't interested in discussion, clearly.



Figured you'd think a site like TMZ was a 'reliable source'. Who knew?

The number of cops who may or may not have been there? Thanks I guess. Really the only pertinent piece of information you gave is that the singer of the song thought that it would've been appropriate to sing at a retiree's party... no matter how many cops were in the room. The fact he could think that beforehand should tell you all you need to know about the character of the people he was expecting to perform in front of... but I'm sure you'll excuse that (or yes, downplay, that too).

And yes... I'm not interested in discussing this with you as I already know it's pointless.



Was the guy singing a police officer? I don't know. I don't know how many were police officers. I know most people there that had ties to law enfor ement are retired and no longer police.

What have i downplayed? Ive provided more information since you're using this as an excuse to judge police as a whole. This is a video almost 3 years old, and you don't have a clue who is or isnt a cop in the video since most people at the party were not cops.

You dont like it when another perspective, or facts, get in the way of a good anti cop thread.



As if the FACT that SOME in the audience were retired cops makes it ok. These former cops were once active cops ya know. But keep hanging your hat on that.

And it doesn't much matter whether the singer is a cop himself or not, the fact that he feels comfortable enough to openly state that he figured the song would've gone over well with the crowd speaks volumes.

So feel free to stick to your excuses.



I dont make excuses. If theyre wrong, theyre wrong. I tend to prefer facts and prof, of which fhere is very little here to indict anyone other than the singer.

I have already said the singer is wrong, and anyone singing along or enjoying the song is wrong.

My argument is we don't know how many people were listening, enjoying it, etc. We dont know how many people there are paid active police officers. YOU presented it as a "room full of them". You dont know that, cant prove that and refuse to admit that.

You keep attacking me because i refuse to indict all people there and all police. Not going to happen. You can say i defend police every chance i get but that's not true, i just like to get the entire story. I am always skeptical especially when the first link posted is filmingcops.com.

Fact is this...it was a stupid song. However, most people at this party were NOT active police officers. Police departments and all police in this country shouldn't be judged by actions of those who haven't been a cop in 10 years. You can't possibly think that.



I'm not attacking you.

You're right. I don't think all LE officers are this bad. But I do believe that a majority of this specific LE department (the Ferguson PD) are. This is not a department that's been found to be a good one already. So I'm not sure why it's so hard to believe that this actually occurred the way it appears in the video.

I don't see why it matters how many officers there were active or retired. You continuously stating that it was mostly retired officers doesn't make it any better because they were once active and thus who knows what kind of evil things were performed during this period. That's the excuse that you seem to want to cling to... that because it happened in a room half full with retired policemen that that somehow makes it ok, and it doesn't.


What are you talking about? The officers that were at the party were not Ferguson PD.

Ive made my point clear. Anyone who sang along or enjoyed it is an idiot. You skip that part every time.

Im NOT making excuses for anyone but you're post insinuated this was a room full of police officers which IS NOT TRUE. Retired police officers (only one we know of for sure has been retired a decade) are no longer police officers. They are normal civilians like everyone else and are no longer public servants. There is a difference imo between a group of active police doing something and a group of old retired guys doing something. You cant judge police everytime a retired officer does something stupid.

Having said that, ive still not seen proof everyone was singing and dancing and loving the song.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Maybe you can start your next thread  
T-Bone : 7/16/2017 6:32 pm : link
In comment 13529428 njm said:
Quote:
In comment 13529404 T-Bone said:


Quote:


I'd rather be able to see the devil as he is than as a person or group that hides their evil ways in a back room county club or whatever.



As a general statement I would agree. But when it's specifically about across the street from a funeral where a 20 year old daughter and 11 year old twins are burying their mother I strongly disagree.


Point taken sir.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Btw, i know this will be mostly ignored  
T-Bone : 7/16/2017 6:46 pm : link
In comment 13529468 halfback20 said:
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In comment 13529400 T-Bone said:


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In comment 13529295 halfback20 said:


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In comment 13529266 T-Bone said:


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In comment 13529198 halfback20 said:


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In comment 13528951 T-Bone said:


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In comment 13528884 halfback20 said:


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In comment 13528865 T-Bone said:


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In comment 13528857 halfback20 said:


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So the outrage from a 2014 video can continue...BUT...

Do you assume they're all police because "filmingcops.com" tells you so?

I did a little research. The party was part of a charity golf event and was put on by a police officer that has been retired for 10 years. There were about 60 people there, about half of which were associated with law enforcement, most of those retired.

If you can figure out how many enjoying the song were active pplice officers, I'd be interested in having that info.



As it should be ignored since...

1) you haven't provided any kind of link yet

and 2) as usual, you're downplaying the incident.






Figured you were capable of using Google to find a more reliable source than what you posted.

And im not downplaying anything. I provided more information.

You aren't interested in discussion, clearly.



Figured you'd think a site like TMZ was a 'reliable source'. Who knew?

The number of cops who may or may not have been there? Thanks I guess. Really the only pertinent piece of information you gave is that the singer of the song thought that it would've been appropriate to sing at a retiree's party... no matter how many cops were in the room. The fact he could think that beforehand should tell you all you need to know about the character of the people he was expecting to perform in front of... but I'm sure you'll excuse that (or yes, downplay, that too).

And yes... I'm not interested in discussing this with you as I already know it's pointless.



Was the guy singing a police officer? I don't know. I don't know how many were police officers. I know most people there that had ties to law enfor ement are retired and no longer police.

What have i downplayed? Ive provided more information since you're using this as an excuse to judge police as a whole. This is a video almost 3 years old, and you don't have a clue who is or isnt a cop in the video since most people at the party were not cops.

You dont like it when another perspective, or facts, get in the way of a good anti cop thread.



As if the FACT that SOME in the audience were retired cops makes it ok. These former cops were once active cops ya know. But keep hanging your hat on that.

And it doesn't much matter whether the singer is a cop himself or not, the fact that he feels comfortable enough to openly state that he figured the song would've gone over well with the crowd speaks volumes.

So feel free to stick to your excuses.



I dont make excuses. If theyre wrong, theyre wrong. I tend to prefer facts and prof, of which fhere is very little here to indict anyone other than the singer.

I have already said the singer is wrong, and anyone singing along or enjoying the song is wrong.

My argument is we don't know how many people were listening, enjoying it, etc. We dont know how many people there are paid active police officers. YOU presented it as a "room full of them". You dont know that, cant prove that and refuse to admit that.

You keep attacking me because i refuse to indict all people there and all police. Not going to happen. You can say i defend police every chance i get but that's not true, i just like to get the entire story. I am always skeptical especially when the first link posted is filmingcops.com.

Fact is this...it was a stupid song. However, most people at this party were NOT active police officers. Police departments and all police in this country shouldn't be judged by actions of those who haven't been a cop in 10 years. You can't possibly think that.



I'm not attacking you.

You're right. I don't think all LE officers are this bad. But I do believe that a majority of this specific LE department (the Ferguson PD) are. This is not a department that's been found to be a good one already. So I'm not sure why it's so hard to believe that this actually occurred the way it appears in the video.

I don't see why it matters how many officers there were active or retired. You continuously stating that it was mostly retired officers doesn't make it any better because they were once active and thus who knows what kind of evil things were performed during this period. That's the excuse that you seem to want to cling to... that because it happened in a room half full with retired policemen that that somehow makes it ok, and it doesn't.



What are you talking about? The officers that were at the party were not Ferguson PD.

Ive made my point clear. Anyone who sang along or enjoyed it is an idiot. You skip that part every time.

Im NOT making excuses for anyone but you're post insinuated this was a room full of police officers which IS NOT TRUE. Retired police officers (only one we know of for sure has been retired a decade) are no longer police officers. They are normal civilians like everyone else and are no longer public servants. There is a difference imo between a group of active police doing something and a group of old retired guys doing something. You cant judge police everytime a retired officer does something stupid.

Having said that, ive still not seen proof everyone was singing and dancing and loving the song.


I was wrong. I could've sworn I'd read somewhere that this happened in Ferguson but just went back and saw where I'd gotten confused.

Actually, I've since corrected myself and said that it wasn't a room full of them but with it still being a room HALF full of policemen... retired or otherwise... that is a very troublesome sight to see a video where that song is playing for over a minute and not see nor hear not one person upset about the lyrics AND that the songwriter... whether he was a cop himself or not... thought that singing a song like that would play well to his crowd. That says a lot about the crowd he was expecting to play in front of (half of which were cops). You keep banging the drum that of the cops that were in there most... if not all... of them were retired so it really shouldn't matter... I'd like to know why it should?

And lastly... let me ask you this... if that was a Black Live Matter party for a retired member of that organization... and you saw a video of that very same scene (same circumstances and everything) but instead you heard a guy singing 'Cops are pigs.. fry em like bacon!', would you be as open to the idea that not everyone in that room was chanting that? Would you accept from me that not everyone in that room was out to kill cops... and would that be comforting enough for you to just let it go?
Oh yeah...  
T-Bone : 7/16/2017 6:52 pm : link
and you keep saying it was a room half full of retired cops... it was MOSTLY retired cops but there were some current cops as well... from MOOPS post above:

Quote:
The Glendale, CA Elks Lodge is investigating a shocking incident that went down in the club a week ago Monday, when a performer sang a song celebrating the death of Michael Brown ... for an audience that included a number of retired and current cops ... and TMZ has the video.


I would respond,  
ctc in ftmyers : 7/16/2017 6:52 pm : link
but nothing would come out right. Definitely a no win situation.
T bone  
halfback20 : 7/16/2017 7:54 pm : link
My point is you can't really see anyone's reaction in the video. You can't even tell who's paying attention.

I guess basically its this simple.

1.)anyone who enjoyed it is an idiot, including the singer.

2.)video doesnt give many details about who was there, listening, etc.

You like to assume things to support your argument when I'm simply saying you can't know. And the singer thinking the audience would like the song says more about him than anyone else. You cant judge others because of what someone else thinks.

I think we have went around and around enough about this 2-3 year old video.

As for your comment about BLM...Id say it depends. It depends on what the video actually showed. Plenty of rappers have written anti police songs. Some have talked about killing cops. I still enjoy rap and i dont think all rappers want to kill all cops...
RE: T bone  
T-Bone : 7/16/2017 8:01 pm : link
In comment 13529579 halfback20 said:
Quote:
My point is you can't really see anyone's reaction in the video. You can't even tell who's paying attention.

I guess basically its this simple.

1.)anyone who enjoyed it is an idiot, including the singer.

2.)video doesnt give many details about who was there, listening, etc.

You like to assume things to support your argument when I'm simply saying you can't know. And the singer thinking the audience would like the song says more about him than anyone else. You cant judge others because of what someone else thinks.

I think we have went around and around enough about this 2-3 year old video.

As for your comment about BLM...Id say it depends. It depends on what the video actually showed. Plenty of rappers have written anti police songs. Some have talked about killing cops. I still enjoy rap and i dont think all rappers want to kill all cops...


And I don't think all cops are racist assholes... just the ones who didn't have a problem with the song and people like them.
T-bone  
Chris684 : 7/16/2017 9:29 pm : link
As per your statement above, I don't think anyone disagrees.

The problem I have with your original post is that you basically said this video plants the seed of doubt with you that "maybe" all cops really are racist assholes.

So, you either do want to generalize or you don't. But if you do, be mindful of how easy it would be for those on the other side of the argument to make the same sweeping generalizations.
I don't believe that.  
T-Bone : 7/17/2017 3:39 am : link
Never once did I definitely state that I now think that all cops are racist assholes. Not once. And yet it was my statement that my confidence that MOST aren't was 'shaken some' that's been the only thing in my post that's bothered you and others to the point where you minimize the REAL issue (the song, the songwriter thinking that it would be ok for him to sing it and who he was performing it for) in the video and distract from it by first altering and then emphasizing something I said that I did not say.

If after reading my post and then watching that video the thing that pisses you off and/or grabs your attention the most is my statement and not the content of the video, I'd say therein lies part of the problem. Your too busy trying to scold me for my reaction to what's in the video rather than being as upset at what caused that reaction in the first place. Out of all the different posters who commented on this post there were only 3 that took what I said so personally that to hell what was in the video... 'yeah, yeah... it was mean but HOW DA HELL CAN YOU SAY ALL COPS ARE RACIST NOW?'.

So spare me. Of course I don't think that most... much less all... cops are assholes (much less racist assholes). I see posters start threads here all the time saying that their 'faith in humanity has been shaken' after witnessing some horrific act and I don't see any posters say to them 'yeah... that's messed up that mother of four drowned her kids on purpose... BUT SHIT DUDE... REALLY? YOUR BELIEF IN ALL HUMANITY?! THATS FUCKED UP THAT YOUD SAY THAT ABOUT ALL OF IS!'. Why not? Because it's stupid to focus your anger on the reaction to the issue and not the issue itself. You want me to feel differently, then do something about what was in that video first and I will. But please stop trying to distract from what the REAL issue is here in this thread.

LE officials want us private citizens to speak up and out against things from bullying to snitching and yet most turn a blind eye to what's going on in their own backyard. Turns out the singer is a PI who used to work as an investigator for the federal government. Yeah... THAT'S a guy I'd like working for the federal government as an investigator! And he supposedly has been singing stuff like that for decades (per the 32 year vet of the force who was the honoree of the event) and at no point during that time did no one think to tell him that songs like that are tasteless? Really?! But no.., it's not that that's got your panties in a bunch... it's me and my personal feelings that must be dealt with. Give me a break.

I'm done. An overwhelmingly majority of the posters on this thread saw what the real issue was and reacted to that issue. Meanwhile, a very small amount have decided that my opening statement should trump (no pun intended... well..,) what was in that video and be the focus of the thread. At least it's nice to see most weren't distracted from what the real issue is in this thread.
Why can't people react to both?  
halfback20 : 7/17/2017 6:28 am : link
Your comments and the video? I have given much opinion on the singer and those who agreed with or enjoyed his song. Like i said before, you clearly weren't interested in discussion, just wanted everyone to agree with everything u said.

RE: Why can't people react to both?  
aquidneck : 7/17/2017 6:37 am : link
In comment 13529822 halfback20 said:
Quote:
Your comments and the video? I have given much opinion on the singer and those who agreed with or enjoyed his song. Like i said before, you clearly weren't interested in discussion, just wanted everyone to agree with everything u said.


I think T-Bones 20-some posts in this thread clearly indicate that he was indeed interested in discussion.

Maybe by "discussion" you mean he wasn't interested in giving up his point of view in order to make to feel better.
RE: RE: Why can't people react to both?  
halfback20 : 7/17/2017 6:47 am : link
In comment 13529823 aquidneck said:
Quote:
In comment 13529822 halfback20 said:


Quote:


Your comments and the video? I have given much opinion on the singer and those who agreed with or enjoyed his song. Like i said before, you clearly weren't interested in discussion, just wanted everyone to agree with everything u said.




I think T-Bones 20-some posts in this thread clearly indicate that he was indeed interested in discussion.

Maybe by "discussion" you mean he wasn't interested in giving up his point of view in order to make to feel better.


He said himself hes not interested in discussing it with me.
T-Bone  
pjcas18 : 7/17/2017 9:05 am : link
my initial reaction was similar to yours though I was actually more saddened than angered or shaken. Like I said before every time there is an incident like this it seems like any progress made in the area of race relations takes multiple steps back from the small steps forward.

My response to the thread wasn't because my reaction to the song or singer was any different than yours, or I was trying to make excuses for anyone, it was because I don't make the same inferences from the video that you do.

If there were a BLM march and a handful of the thousands of people marching were chanting "pigs in blankets fry like bacon" I would not say all of the thousands of people marching should be condemned by the words of the few. I would not say anyone who doesn't confront those uttering those words is a coward or a cop-hating bigot - guilty by association. They might be, for all I know and everyone in that video could be a straight out racist, but I'm not willing to go there without something more solid.

I don't even know for a fact anyone else is even paying attention to the song. the only video I see looks like a man having a conversation with someone on his way out of the room and people at a table talking to each other and the bulk of the video just shows the carpet. I'm not willing to make the leap that this is quasi klan rally and people are singing along stomping their feet to the music and all otherwise endorse the song like you did. If this is the standard you need to convict people or condemn them for inaction we have different standards. I'd like to think if people were listening someone would have said something and it appears from some of the stories, people heard and complained to the Elks Club about it, but who heard what and when is not known to me.

So I think we can say we both find the song disgusting, where we differ is in the culpability of others, you could be right, but I'm not willing to go there based on that video.

Quote:
Might as well been a room full of Klansman. All that's different is the uniform.

I've always been of the belief that not ALL... or even most... cops are bad. But seeing something like this... happening in a room full of them at a party... this shakes that belief some.

RE: T-Bone  
T-Bone : 7/17/2017 11:09 am : link
In comment 13529864 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
my initial reaction was similar to yours though I was actually more saddened than angered or shaken. Like I said before every time there is an incident like this it seems like any progress made in the area of race relations takes multiple steps back from the small steps forward.

My response to the thread wasn't because my reaction to the song or singer was any different than yours, or I was trying to make excuses for anyone, it was because I don't make the same inferences from the video that you do.

If there were a BLM march and a handful of the thousands of people marching were chanting "pigs in blankets fry like bacon" I would not say all of the thousands of people marching should be condemned by the words of the few. I would not say anyone who doesn't confront those uttering those words is a coward or a cop-hating bigot - guilty by association. They might be, for all I know and everyone in that video could be a straight out racist, but I'm not willing to go there without something more solid.

I don't even know for a fact anyone else is even paying attention to the song. the only video I see looks like a man having a conversation with someone on his way out of the room and people at a table talking to each other and the bulk of the video just shows the carpet. I'm not willing to make the leap that this is quasi klan rally and people are singing along stomping their feet to the music and all otherwise endorse the song like you did. If this is the standard you need to convict people or condemn them for inaction we have different standards. I'd like to think if people were listening someone would have said something and it appears from some of the stories, people heard and complained to the Elks Club about it, but who heard what and when is not known to me.

So I think we can say we both find the song disgusting, where we differ is in the culpability of others, you could be right, but I'm not willing to go there based on that video.



Quote:


Might as well been a room full of Klansman. All that's different is the uniform.

I've always been of the belief that not ALL... or even most... cops are bad. But seeing something like this... happening in a room full of them at a party... this shakes that belief some.



Throughout this thread I've found your post to be very fair and balanced. You've never given off the impression that you were more concerned with my reaction over the cause of that reaction. I've appreciated your posts and have made me realize that perhaps not EVERYONE that was in attendance had no problem with the song (although in the article in MOOPS link it specifically states that the person videotaping did so because
Quote:
they were offended by the song and upset no one was objecting.
). That's from the article... I didn't make it up.

My issue is with those that have chosen to appear to have more of an issue with my statement (which they themselves have adjusted to fit a narrative they want to argue against... that I'm thinking ALL cops are racist assholes... which I've never said) than the content in the video. And of course, it's usually the same posters it always is.

I'm not anti-police. Never considered myself to be anyway. But that video is bullshit and all the information that's come out since has done anything to put anyone in that video in a better light... at least not to me. Between the song itself... the fact the songwriter states that he didn't think singing a song like that wouldn't be an issue with those in attendance... the fact that he's performed similar songs for DECADES with no one at any point saying to him 'Ya know... this just doesn't seem right.' is a problem. The guy who the event was for pretty much says 'What's the big deal? He's done this every year for the past few decades.' and pulls out the 'This is 'merica! And he can say what he wants!'... and he's a former cop. That's a problem. Because of all that, I see no reason to give anyone associated with incident any benefit of the doubt. If I saw or heard ONE person in that minute-plus video (or even read about it afterwards), then I'd perhaps feel differently. Instead we have the honoree basically shrugging his shoulders. But it's MY attitude towards police officers that needs to be addressed by some. That needs to be the focus for some.

That's also a big part of the problem.
I read that T-Bone  
pjcas18 : 7/17/2017 11:33 am : link
and I'm glad they videotaped it, so it's out there, but they also don't say anyone was enjoying it, singing along, or laughing about it. They don't even say if people were even paying attention to the song.

the songwriter has publicly expressed remorse (maybe not enough) and the only person responding IMO still inappropriately is the event organizer who says it's free speech. And the Elks club from what I read was considering their own discipline (it's been a couple years so who know what's happened since)

Like in the BLM march question you posed to the board, are you condemning people who fail to act against the couple bad apples who are spewing offensive comments?

I'm not. While I'd admire courage in a setting like that, I just don't expect and I don't think inaction necessarily speaks to someone's character or makes them a coward and certainly doesn't necessarily make them complicit or in agreement with the offensive comments.
Again, I guess it's a matter of perspective.  
T-Bone : 7/17/2017 12:10 pm : link
In the article it states that the person videotaped it because no one was speaking out against it. Yeah, it's possible that not everyone in attendance was 'enjoying' the song but in certain circumstances inaction is just as bad as approving it as far as I'm concerned.

I see nowhere where the songwriter apologizes. All he stated was how he realized after the fact that the song was 'off color and in poor taste' (which is pretty pathetic if true... and I don't believe it myself). And it's a statement from his lawyer, not him. If you've seen a different statement please feel free to point it out to me.

Quote:
Like in the BLM march question you posed to the board, are you condemning people who fail to act against the couple bad apples who are spewing offensive comments?


Yes I am. Why wouldn't you? You wouldn't expect me to condemn the assholes who were chanting 'cops are pigs, fry me like bacon'? Why not?

There are many other ways the people in that room could've shown any dissatisfaction... none of which would've involved actually confronting the songwriter. The first and most effective of which would've been simply to walk out. Would that have been too much to ask for? I don't think so.
I would expect you to condemn  
pjcas18 : 7/17/2017 12:28 pm : link
the people at a BLM march saying "pigs in blankets fry like bacon" or whatever other offensive chants, of course, but my point is not everyone else at the march too. And that's kind of what you're doing here.

I wouldn't condemn peaceful protestors at a BLM march or those who have constructive messages even among the offensive people. That's my opinion.

only those actually making the offensive comments IMO are responsible for the comments and maybe even extend it to others actively participating in the comments if feel like it, I can live with that.

as for this event, it was a charity golf tournament. I don't know and won't pretend to know in that room where the singer sung his offensive song, who was even paying attention to the lyrics. Maybe my opinion was tainted by reading your OP where you made it sound like the crowd was singing, dancing, and laughing (ie participating) in the song.

Sure, people could have walked out, and maybe some did, who knows, I feel like I've made my point clear, it's not ok to sing the song, it's not ok to participate in it or even enjoy it, but I'm not going to assume because someone didn't walk out or confront the singer they were ok with it.

RE: I would expect you to condemn  
halfback20 : 7/17/2017 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13530063 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
the people at a BLM march saying "pigs in blankets fry like bacon" or whatever other offensive chants, of course, but my point is not everyone else at the march too. And that's kind of what you're doing here.

I wouldn't condemn peaceful protestors at a BLM march or those who have constructive messages even among the offensive people. That's my opinion.

only those actually making the offensive comments IMO are responsible for the comments and maybe even extend it to others actively participating in the comments if feel like it, I can live with that.

as for this event, it was a charity golf tournament. I don't know and won't pretend to know in that room where the singer sung his offensive song, who was even paying attention to the lyrics. Maybe my opinion was tainted by reading your OP where you made it sound like the crowd was singing, dancing, and laughing (ie participating) in the song.

Sure, people could have walked out, and maybe some did, who knows, I feel like I've made my point clear, it's not ok to sing the song, it's not ok to participate in it or even enjoy it, but I'm not going to assume because someone didn't walk out or confront the singer they were ok with it.


You say what i have tried to say, only you say it much better lol
pj  
T-Bone : 7/17/2017 1:23 pm : link
Quote:
... but I'm not going to assume because someone didn't walk out or confront the singer they were ok with it.


This is where we differ because I will.

Again, person who videotaped it said they did because NOONE was speaking out against it. Even the organizer never condemned the song or songwriter even after it was pointed out to him how offensive it was. Now after all that, if you choose to still believe that most, if not all, of everyone there wasn't ok with the song, more power to you. I choose to believe differently. Nothing wrong with that and I can respect you having that perspective.

I just refuse to let you or anyone else try to make me feel like I'm wrong for going with how I (and it appears many others) view what's going on in that room. Not when if the roles were reversed some (not you) wouldn't be giving all of these excuses and qualifiers for what appears to be pretty straight forward as to what's going on there. Whenever BLM comes up on this site there are a few who have no problem throwing up some misguided idiots chanting the 'pigs, fry em' song but at least BLM as an organization came out and condemned those comments. As you said yourself, the only condemnation we've seen is from the lodge. But you want me to believe that there are some who didn't like the song? Well perhaps they should speak up then? Or... as you suggest... not. And no, not speaking up does NOT automatically mean that you're ok with the song, but it doesn't mean it doesn't either.
RE: pj  
pjcas18 : 7/17/2017 1:31 pm : link
In comment 13530129 T-Bone said:
Quote:


Quote:


... but I'm not going to assume because someone didn't walk out or confront the singer they were ok with it.



This is where we differ because I will.

Again, person who videotaped it said they did because NOONE was speaking out against it. Even the organizer never condemned the song or songwriter even after it was pointed out to him how offensive it was. Now after all that, if you choose to still believe that most, if not all, of everyone there wasn't ok with the song, more power to you. I choose to believe differently. Nothing wrong with that and I can respect you having that perspective.

I just refuse to let you or anyone else try to make me feel like I'm wrong for going with how I (and it appears many others) view what's going on in that room. Not when if the roles were reversed some (not you) wouldn't be giving all of these excuses and qualifiers for what appears to be pretty straight forward as to what's going on there. Whenever BLM comes up on this site there are a few who have no problem throwing up some misguided idiots chanting the 'pigs, fry em' song but at least BLM as an organization came out and condemned those comments. As you said yourself, the only condemnation we've seen is from the lodge. But you want me to believe that there are some who didn't like the song? Well perhaps they should speak up then? Or... as you suggest... not. And no, not speaking up does NOT automatically mean that you're ok with the song, but it doesn't mean it doesn't either.


The organizer deserves more scrutiny and attention, he said it was free speech, but the Elks Club condemned it and the Elks Club board said they were considering sanctions against the organizer (no clue whatever happened with it).

My other point was I just don't know who was paying attention to the song enough to even hear the lyrics. I just don't see enough in the video to say wow those people are just sitting there not saying anything about the offensive song. I've been to events at Elks Clubs and other similar places and when you're having a conversation with someone the sounds in the background are just that background noise. Maye they all heard it and ignored it, maybe they heard it and laughed, maybe they heard it and were pissed, I cannot tell and I'm not willing to convict anyone with what I've seen on that video.

And T-Bone I definitely am not saying you're wrong for having your opinion, I'm just saying mine is different and explaining why I have my opinion. I think it's important people to the extent they're willing to do it respectfully have to have conversations about topics like this and share their thoughts, it's IMO how we progress as a society.

My comment about walking in your shoes was exactly to this point. You have life experiences that help form your opinions, as I do that help form my opinions.

And I would never say yours is wrong or worse than mine.
RE: pj  
steve in ky : 7/17/2017 1:39 pm : link
In comment 13530129 T-Bone said:
Quote:



Again, person who videotaped it said they did because NOONE was speaking out against it.


Odd that they themselves didn't speak out if they are being truthful about their motivation for filming.

pj  
T-Bone : 7/17/2017 2:22 pm : link
I'd say the organizer... after the songwriter... deserves A LOT of the blame. At no point does he offer any kind of apology. I think it's pretty apparent that the song was ok by him since 'This is America. We can say what we want. This is a free America.' appears to be his only public statements. But hey, you're right... maybe he didn't know his crowd Ithat he's been a part of for decades) and a majority of the people in that room were really appalled by that song. It IS hard to tell simply from that video that the crowd wasn't sitting there in disgust from what they were hearing. I can't argue with that.

Ok... I'm done. At least a statement was put out by the LAPD condeming the song (calling it "offensive & absurd.") and saying "Any officers who were present could potentially face disciplinary action for "conduct unbecoming of a police officer.". Although if there was any action taken it seems to be unknown. This thread has consumed a lot of my time and energy and I'm ready to move on at this point. Thanks for offering your perspective pj... it's always appreciated even when we don't agree.
RE: RE: pj  
T-Bone : 7/17/2017 2:23 pm : link
In comment 13530142 steve in ky said:
Quote:
In comment 13530129 T-Bone said:


Quote:





Again, person who videotaped it said they did because NOONE was speaking out against it.



Odd that they themselves didn't speak out if they are being truthful about their motivation for filming.


At least they had the courage to shine some light on it. I'll take it.
RE: RE: RE: pj  
steve in ky : 7/17/2017 2:37 pm : link
In comment 13530188 T-Bone said:
Quote:
In comment 13530142 steve in ky said:


Quote:


In comment 13530129 T-Bone said:


Quote:





Again, person who videotaped it said they did because NOONE was speaking out against it.



Odd that they themselves didn't speak out if they are being truthful about their motivation for filming.




At least they had the courage to shine some light on it. I'll take it.


Sure but if they were so strongly against it to tape it yet felt too uncomfortable to speak up stands to reason many others may have felt the same.

Not defending the song, or those who were involved in playing it because it's indispensable, but just hard for me to read into the hearts of people I don't even know just because they were present for dinner. Just impossible to know how many people felt just like the person who taped it, but also didn't speak up.

Everybody likley has at least one time in their life they wished they could have a do over and done more to stand against a situation they encountered and didn't support.
indispensable should have read indefensible  
steve in ky : 7/17/2017 3:00 pm : link
LOL auto correct
RE: indispensable should have read indefensible  
T-Bone : 7/17/2017 3:08 pm : link
In comment 13530240 steve in ky said:
Quote:
LOL auto correct


No problem. I knew what you meant.

No offense steve, but I'm ready to move on. I'm just going to go in the same circle as you that I've been going through with others and I'm tired of repeating myself.
T-Bone  
steve in ky : 7/17/2017 3:13 pm : link
That's fine I don't desire that either. I stand by my original post that is was disgusting, and on that I think we all agree.
RE: T-Bone  
T-Bone : 7/17/2017 3:49 pm : link
In comment 13530258 steve in ky said:
Quote:
That's fine I don't desire that either. I stand by my original post that is was disgusting, and on that I think we all agree.


Agree... and there hasn't been anyone on this thread who's said anything different (thankfully).

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