Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

My 53-man Roster Guesstimation

adamg : 7/15/2017 5:20 pm
Not a lot going on, I figured I'd throw my 53 man guess in the ring. I only copped out on the 5th CB, considering there's a chance we sign a guy later on to be vet depth in the secondary.

Another note, I am among those who hope we have some 21 and 22 personnel this year, i.e. a fullback. That said, Shane Smith doesn't offer any versatility or deception in terms of being an offensive skill player: he doesn't catch and he doesn't run. So, I think he has a very limited chance of making the team, unless he shows to be a stud on specials, which I doubt. Nevertheless, LaCosse does show enough versatility that he could play out of the back field and inline, and he can catch. So, between him, Ellison, and Engram, we could have a lot of multiplicity with guys being lead blockers out of the back field even though no one is dedicated to that position only.

Also, I reduced the number of LBS on the team compared to 2016 by 2, but looking at some of those LBs from last year, two didn't even play a down (Brinkley and Thomas). So, this assumes we go with guys who can contribute and guys who are healthy. Also, each guy has a primary LB position. Herz is the backup SLB; Casillas the backup WLB; and Munson the backup MLB. Pinkins was a close cut to that group, but Herz is a better guy to spell the SLB than Pinkins is, and that was the major difference. And, the extra TE could take some ST load off of the LB corps.

Caveats aside: here's my 53:

Quote:

O - 25
D - 25
ST - 3

QB (3)
Eli Manning
Josh Johnson
Davis Webb

RB (4)
Paul Perkins
Shane Vereen
Wayne Gallman
Orleans Darkwa

TE/FB (4)
Evan Engram
Rhett Ellison
Jerrell Adams
Matt LaCosse

WR (6)
Odell Beckham Jr.
Sterling Shepard
Brandon Marshall
Dwayne Harris
Roger Lewis Jr.
Tavarres King

OL (8)
Ereck Flowers
Justin Pugh
Weston Richburg
John Jerry
Bobby Hart
Adam Bisnowaty
DJ Fluker
Brett Jones

DE (6)
Jason Pierre-Paul
Olivier Vernon
Romeo Okwara
Avery Moss
Devin Taylor
Kerry Wynn

DT (4)
Damon Harrison
Dalvin Tomlinson
Robert Thomas
Jay Bromley

LB (6)
Devon Kennard
BJ Goodson
Keenan Robinson
Jonathan Casillas
Mark Herzlich
Calvin Munson

CB (5)
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
Janoris Jenkins
Eli Apple
Michael Hunter
Mykkele Thompson/FA

S (4)
Landon Collins
Darian Thompson
Andrew Adams
Jadar Johnson

ST (3)
Zak DeOssie
Aldrick Rosas
Brad Wing

PS
Khalid Abdullah
Jacob Huesman
Darius Powe
Travis Rudolph
Colin Thompson
Chad Wheeler
Jessamen Dunker
Donte Deayon
Nigel Tribune
Evan Schwan
Very good list  
Earl the goat : 7/15/2017 5:23 pm : link
I think Lewis gets cut and Powe makes it a WR
I think Bromley gets cut too
Otherwise I agree on most
RE: Very good list  
adamg : 7/15/2017 5:24 pm : link
In comment 13528979 Earl the goat said:
Quote:
I think Lewis gets cut and Powe makes it a WR
I think Bromley gets cut too
Otherwise I agree on most


Thanks. Who do you think they replace Bromley with? Bryant? Banks?
I think that's the chalk  
BillT : 7/15/2017 5:42 pm : link
That's the most likely given what we know.

As far as the above comment, Bromley isn't going anywhere, there is no one to replace him and 4 DTs is minimum. I'm not sold that Jadar Johnson is the 4th S but Berhe's injuries make that possible. I think Pinkins might have a better shot there. You could also pick also Powe over King but who knows.

Good job.
wide receiver  
Hilary : 7/15/2017 5:45 pm : link
I think they can go with 5 wide receivers as Engram can play in the slot or as a wide out and they can then have a fullback of more depth at corner or offensive line
RE: RE: Very good list  
Earl the goat : 7/15/2017 5:57 pm : link
In comment 13528981 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 13528979 Earl the goat said:

They've had enough of Bromley unless he has a really good camp
They brought Corbin Bryant in for that reason
He's veteran depth and Tomlinson may not be ready


Quote:


I think Lewis gets cut and Powe makes it a WR
I think Bromley gets cut too
Otherwise I agree on most



Thanks. Who do you think they replace Bromley with? Bryant? Banks?
I'd like to see someone  
Fred-in-Florida : 7/15/2017 6:13 pm : link
Besides Wynn st DE. I don't know any thing about Williams or Schwan, maybe a bet gets cut we can bring in.

Can't ever remember Wynn do anything!
RE: I think that's the chalk  
adamg : 7/15/2017 6:17 pm : link
In comment 13528996 BillT said:
Quote:
That's the most likely given what we know.

As far as the above comment, Bromley isn't going anywhere, there is no one to replace him and 4 DTs is minimum. I'm not sold that Jadar Johnson is the 4th S but Berhe's injuries make that possible. I think Pinkins might have a better shot there. You could also pick also Powe over King but who knows.

Good job.


Powe and King were close for me. The difference was that King may be the fourth best pure receiver on the depth chart. Also, Harris backs up Shep. Lewis backs up Beckham. And King backs up for Marshall. Powe is an unknown at this point in terms of which skill set he possesses as a receiver, although his size would indicate he's an X guy. Regardless, King being the sixth WR would mean he doesn't get a shirt come gameday.
Bet=  
Fred-in-Florida : 7/15/2017 6:21 pm : link
Vet. Hard to type on my phone
RE: RE: I think that's the chalk  
BillT : 7/15/2017 6:22 pm : link
In comment 13529010 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 13528996 BillT said:


Quote:


That's the most likely given what we know.

As far as the above comment, Bromley isn't going anywhere, there is no one to replace him and 4 DTs is minimum. I'm not sold that Jadar Johnson is the 4th S but Berhe's injuries make that possible. I think Pinkins might have a better shot there. You could also pick also Powe over King but who knows.

Good job.



Powe and King were close for me. The difference was that King may be the fourth best pure receiver on the depth chart. Also, Harris backs up Shep. Lewis backs up Beckham. And King backs up for Marshall. Powe is an unknown at this point in terms of which skill set he possesses as a receiver, although his size would indicate he's an X guy. Regardless, King being the sixth WR would mean he doesn't get a shirt come gameday.

Yeah, I don't see how you can pick between Powe and King at this point and King probably is "ahead" at this point. To be fair Corbin Bryant has a shot to replace Bromley but the Giants do like their draft choices. It's Jadar Johnson that seems a bit over hyped. I think he's a PS player this year.
RE: RE: RE: I think that's the chalk  
adamg : 7/15/2017 6:28 pm : link
In comment 13529014 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 13529010 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 13528996 BillT said:


Quote:


That's the most likely given what we know.

As far as the above comment, Bromley isn't going anywhere, there is no one to replace him and 4 DTs is minimum. I'm not sold that Jadar Johnson is the 4th S but Berhe's injuries make that possible. I think Pinkins might have a better shot there. You could also pick also Powe over King but who knows.

Good job.



Powe and King were close for me. The difference was that King may be the fourth best pure receiver on the depth chart. Also, Harris backs up Shep. Lewis backs up Beckham. And King backs up for Marshall. Powe is an unknown at this point in terms of which skill set he possesses as a receiver, although his size would indicate he's an X guy. Regardless, King being the sixth WR would mean he doesn't get a shirt come gameday.


Yeah, I don't see how you can pick between Powe and King at this point and King probably is "ahead" at this point. To be fair Corbin Bryant has a shot to replace Bromley but the Giants do like their draft choices. It's Jadar Johnson that seems a bit over hyped. I think he's a PS player this year.


Jadar and Munson were my two ambitious UDFA picks to make the roster. He actually seems the closest to a 'pure' FS of our guys back there, which gives him a niche to fill if he can manage it. But, 4th safety is definitely up for grabs. I'm hoping Jadar can snag it for what that would mean about how he's taking to pro coaching plus his complementary skill set. Duke Ihenacho or Eric Pinkins could take that spot also, but both are more SS types.
As good a list as you can expect to see this far out  
SGMen : 7/15/2017 6:40 pm : link
I still believe Geno Smith beats out J. Johnson IF HEALTHY.

I like LaCosse as the #4 TE as well. The kid has flashed but hasn't stayed healthy.
RE: As good a list as you can expect to see this far out  
adamg : 7/15/2017 6:42 pm : link
In comment 13529023 SGMen said:
Quote:
I still believe Geno Smith beats out J. Johnson IF HEALTHY.

I like LaCosse as the #4 TE as well. The kid has flashed but hasn't stayed healthy.


I really hope LaCosse makes it this year. I think he can be a perfect do everything TE/FB for this team.
Nacho  
XBRONX : 7/15/2017 6:45 pm : link
beats out Jadar.
RE: Nacho  
adamg : 7/15/2017 6:46 pm : link
In comment 13529028 XBRONX said:
Quote:
beats out Jadar.


Possible for sure. The reports weren't great on him coming out of OTAs though.
Good  
AcidTest : 7/15/2017 8:28 pm : link
list. I think Powe beats out Lewis, Jr., and even then neither might make it, since at least one of those two and Randolph will undoubtedly get through to the PS. So why not just carry 5 WRs, especially since Engram can "flex out" into the slot? It saves a position.

I don't think Wynn makes the team, or both Herzlich and Munson. Pinkins and Wheeler have the best chance to replace two of these three.
Very Good List  
Trainmaster : 7/15/2017 9:29 pm : link
I believe they carried 8 OL last year, but I'd go with 9 and only 5 WRs as after OBJ, Marshall and Shepards they're all JAGs.
I agree --  
gidiefor : Mod : 7/15/2017 9:41 pm : link
very good list
Good starting point entering camp.  
Big Blue Blogger : 7/15/2017 10:34 pm : link
Now may the best - and healthiest - 53 men win.

One additional factor to consider is the readiness of rookies to contribute in Week 1. It's quite possible that Evan Engram will be the only rookie to dress against Dallas (not counting Rosas, who isn't technically a rookie and might be replaced anyway). Webb and Moss are likely redshirts for some portion of 2017. Tomlinson, Gallman and Bisnowaty will only dress if they are ready to contribute. Even Engram might sit if the team carries four TEs.

Why does this matter? Because the same logic compelling the Giants to carry three QBs applies to other positions too. Five DEs is pretty much mandatory; and until Moss starts playing, Adamg's projection of six isn't impossible. (Improbable, yes, but not impossible.) Similarly, it's hard to imagine the Giants carrying fewer than four RBs. They might even keep five, if Gallman doesn't prove he can pass-protect at the pro level.
Backup WRs...  
GeorgeAdams33 : 7/15/2017 10:42 pm : link
..will probably be determined by special teams play.

Harris is coming off of a horrible year. I hope that Shepard shows the ability to return punts, but some other guys like Rudolph, Snead, and possibly Lewis should compete there as well. I also believe that King & Lewis could possibly return KOs. Lewis is a gunner. I like Powe, but I don't know if he has any ability to play on specials. I hate to cut a good player because they don't help on specials. Who can ever forget Dan Reeves cutting Ed McCaffery?
It's Evan  
GeorgeAdams33 : 7/15/2017 10:44 pm : link
Engram
just  
GeorgeAdams33 : 7/15/2017 10:45 pm : link
kidding
RE: Good starting point entering camp.  
adamg : 7/15/2017 11:55 pm : link
In comment 13529179 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
Now may the best - and healthiest - 53 men win.

One additional factor to consider is the readiness of rookies to contribute in Week 1. It's quite possible that Evan Engram will be the only rookie to dress against Dallas (not counting Rosas, who isn't technically a rookie and might be replaced anyway). Webb and Moss are likely redshirts for some portion of 2017. Tomlinson, Gallman and Bisnowaty will only dress if they are ready to contribute. Even Engram might sit if the team carries four TEs.

Why does this matter? Because the same logic compelling the Giants to carry three QBs applies to other positions too. Five DEs is pretty much mandatory; and until Moss starts playing, Adamg's projection of six isn't impossible. (Improbable, yes, but not impossible.) Similarly, it's hard to imagine the Giants carrying fewer than four RBs. They might even keep five, if Gallman doesn't prove he can pass-protect at the pro level.


Wynn proved too valuable under my list due to his ability to spell both DE, DT, and contribute on specials. Same with Herz. His ability to spell SLB especially and his ST versatility both as a coverage guy and a backup long snapper made his value higher than Pinkins. I like Pinkins but his tweener-ness makes him hard to project in terms of LB value (we already have two WLB) and safety value (Collins is the SS, plus D Thompson and Adams have builds more in the mold of SS). Jadar is much more of a FS in terms of build and physical tools.

Back to the 6 DEs, Taylor's value as a pass rusher made his value enough that he could probably see some time on the field goal unit as well as spell either DE spot plus have value as a passing situation rusher.

Owa was passed by Moss as the interior (Justin Tuck role) rusher and DE backup.

And the 46 man roster was definitely in mind when considering the WR and DT positions especially. Like you allude to, Tomlinson probably doesn't suit up on week 1 or 2, but should earn time as the season goes on. When Hankins was a rookie he didn't play many snaps at all. That said, we were much deeper at both DE and DT then, so Tomlinson has much weaker competition to overcome for playing time. Still, DT isn't a position that one can easily break into the league and show immediate success.
Assorted thoughts...  
Milton : 7/16/2017 12:52 am : link
Injuries will ultimately make this conversation irrelevant, but assuming 100% health through camp (not bloody likely!)...

Wide Receiver: I think the Giants keep 5 receivers with Harris as the 4th WR who dresses on game day and King, Lewis, Powe, and Rudolph all in the mix for the 5th spot. Each of those four comes with pro's and con's, so it's hard for me to pick one over the others (King has the experience but his journeyman history suggests he has the lowest ceiling, albeit the highest floor; Lewis I'm guessing has the most talent but the greatest character concerns; Powe has the best size; Rudolph is the newcomer with excellent pedigree and was the only other UDFA besided Wheeler to receiver bonus money ($10K) but his measurables are the least inspiring). It's entirely possible they keep six WR based on camp injuries, preseason production, and/or special team considerations, but there is no necessity to keep six.

Offensive Line: Despite recent history (and recent history only), I think the Giants keep nine OL, but this is another place in which camp injuries will play a huge role one way or another (either forcing the Giants to keep eight or forcing them to keep nine or even ten, depending on who are the injured players we are talking about). My prediction would be to add Wheeler to the eight you currently have listed.

Defensive Line: I think the Giants keep five DE with Wynn and Devin Taylor in a battle for the 5th spot. I agree with your four DT, but would love to see Josh Banks be the surprise of camp and win a roster spot over either Bromley (more likely) or Thomas (less likely).

Linebacker: I agree that they keep six, but I believe the 6th spot will go to either J.T. Thomas at a reduced salary or a veteran addition not currently on the roster. Thomas's status will be clarified after he takes his pre-camp physical. If he passes it, that could free to release him and his $3M salary; and if he fails it, that could free them to release him with a $1M injury settlement. The third alternative is an agreed upon salary reduction. I see no way they keep him at his current salary. As for Munson, he strikes me as strictly practice squad material for now. There are intriguing veterans still on the open market (Riley, Levy, Orr) and others will come available as camp cuts are made around the league.

Secondary: I think they keep ten total with five CB (Jenkins, Apple, DRC, Hunter, and Blake, Tribune, or Amos) four safeties (Collins, Thompson, Berhe, Adams), and Mykelle Thompson (if he can remain healthy through camp) as a CB/S hybrid. Injuries will play a significant role here because guys like Berhe and M. Thompson are down to their last strike and may not survive even minor injuries. They will be patient with Darian Thompson, but an injury to him may effect the numbers game at the position. I think Jadar Johnson, like Munson, is strictly practice squad material for now. The opportunity is there for him to impress (as it is for all at the bottom of the 90-man roster), but it's not something which I see a reason to anticipate (unlike with Josh Banks whose 3T measurables give him a leg up on his competitors).

Other than that, I agree with your projections for QB, RB, TE, and special teams.

I think it will be easier to slide guys onto the practice squad  
Ivan15 : 7/16/2017 10:53 am : link
this year because of the late massive cutdown.

So I don't see many free agents making the 53. Likewise, last year's practice squad players who are still eligible. This year's and last year's draft picks will be kept.

Except for the CBs, guys like Munson, Powe, and one of the true FBs will end up on the practice squad. Since the Giants appear a bit thin at CB, one or two UDFA newbies may make the 53.

...  
ColHowPepper : 7/16/2017 1:29 pm : link
Milton had some good in depth comments to a good OP: as to Munson, so far as I can tell, the OP made no case for him, just kind of an arbitrary inclusion in the 53. What have you seen in him that justifies that decision as vs. Milton's view that he's just a PS guy?

Along with others, I hope someone comes along and knocks Wynn out of the 53: he's a journeyman, plays with effort, and has versatility to play inside and out--all good things, but not a difference-maker at either position. Same with Bromley, unless the light suddenly comes on (some here say his progress was impeded because Reese and TC sought to change his technique skill-set, but there's been little evidence that he is a big talent), and Thomas, who played little (at all?) but whom was kept over guys who saw a fair number of snaps. Puzzling. I know nothing of Banks or what he possesses that might make him the guy.
RE: ...  
adamg : 7/16/2017 4:02 pm : link
In comment 13529367 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
Milton had some good in depth comments to a good OP: as to Munson, so far as I can tell, the OP made no case for him, just kind of an arbitrary inclusion in the 53. What have you seen in him that justifies that decision as vs. Milton's view that he's just a PS guy?

Along with others, I hope someone comes along and knocks Wynn out of the 53: he's a journeyman, plays with effort, and has versatility to play inside and out--all good things, but not a difference-maker at either position. Same with Bromley, unless the light suddenly comes on (some here say his progress was impeded because Reese and TC sought to change his technique skill-set, but there's been little evidence that he is a big talent), and Thomas, who played little (at all?) but whom was kept over guys who saw a fair number of snaps. Puzzling. I know nothing of Banks or what he possesses that might make him the guy.


I liked Munson as a UDFA signing. He was on my draft radar as a potential day 3 LB selection. He is a typical MLB type with some versatility to cover, Shepperd like. I put him because I don't see another MLB on the roster except Goodson. And he should have specials ability. There's a pair of each LB type in my 53. Wouldn't mind switching him for JT Thomas but money and injury played a role for me there.
Don't see  
OC2.0 : 7/16/2017 5:57 pm : link
4 TE's. Waste of a slot to me.
RE: RE: ...  
ColHowPepper : 7/16/2017 9:35 pm : link
In comment 13529461 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 13529367 ColHowPepper said:///
I liked Munson as a UDFA signing. He was on my draft radar as a potential day 3 LB selection. He is a typical MLB type with some versatility to cover, Shepperd like. I put him because I don't see another MLB on the roster except Goodson. And he should have specials ability. There's a pair of each LB type in my 53. Wouldn't mind switching him for JT Thomas but money and injury played a role for me there.
thanks, Adam, I wonder if how serious a consideration JTT will be toward the end of cuts.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
Milton : 7/16/2017 11:15 pm : link
In comment 13529637 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
I wonder if how serious a consideration JTT will be toward the end of cuts.
My guess is that a decision will be made on Thomas when he takes his physical and not when they are making final cuts in September. If he passes it, they are free to release him and his $3M salary at no cost. I don't see them keeping him at that salary and there is too much risk of injury for them to allow him to practice (he could wind up on IR and due the whole $3M). It's possible they will agree with him on a reduced salary. On the other hand, if he fails the physical, they can release him at a cost of $1M (if my reading of it in the CBA is correct). They can regain all or some of the $1M if he signs with another team this year.
Guys that could make the 53 but really shouldn't...  
Jimmy Googs : 7/17/2017 5:55 am : link
Smith
Johnson
Gettis
M Thompson
A Adams
N Behre
Thomas
Herzlich
Back to the Corner