the official but man i am so pumped. I have this theory that Jaime is going to end up Killing Cersie. Maybe at the end of this season. Could be outlandish, but i don't think she is going to want to get involved in anything other than kings landing and Jaime is going to see what needs to be done. Kingslayer and Queenslayer
the official but man i am so pumped. I have this theory that Jaime is going to end up Killing Cersie. Maybe at the end of this season. Could be outlandish, but i don't think she is going to want to get involved in anything other than kings landing and Jaime is going to see what needs to be done. Kingslayer and Queenslayer
I think most people think that.
Ok Lets try to keep book spoilers out of this thread. Â
Possibly even marrying and forming an evil super duo.
Jaime and Bron will be the first army that goes against Daeneys and they will lose. I think she spares his life for the sake of Tyrion (Jaime spared/helped save his life).
Jon learns who he is and he forms the first army to go against the White Walkers.
Im curious to see if Littlefinger can turn Sansa and how that plays out. Bran and Arya look to be joining everyone in Winter Fell shortly.
cool thoughts. Sansa has such a weird path right now i feel like. She could kind of turn against Jon, or stay the path, but the way it ended last season makes me think she could go against him
cool thoughts. Sansa has such a weird path right now i feel like. She could kind of turn against Jon, or stay the path, but the way it ended last season makes me think she could go against him
Yeah there was a lot of foreshadowing there. I think she desires being the queen. In a weird way it's what she wanted since she was a child although I think nobody ever expected her to get there by this route and betraying her family.
Is it just me, or has anyone else lost interest in the books? Â
I was an avid book reader. Read them all as soon as they came out and in a matter of days. I've been really pissed at times over the sloth and slow pace of Martin. But with the way the show has moved on beyond the series, I really couldn't care less if he finishes the next or any of the remaining books. To heck with him.
RE: Is it just me, or has anyone else lost interest in the books? Â
I was an avid book reader. Read them all as soon as they came out and in a matter of days. I've been really pissed at times over the sloth and slow pace of Martin. But with the way the show has moved on beyond the series, I really couldn't care less if he finishes the next or any of the remaining books. To heck with him.
There's no books to lose interest in. If the next ever comes out I'll be picking it up the day it comes out. The pace of the books is how the show was, and what it still should be, IMO.
Looking forward to tonight, crossing my fingers that the wait is worth it.
RE: RE: Is it just me, or has anyone else lost interest in the books? Â
I was an avid book reader. Read them all as soon as they came out and in a matter of days. I've been really pissed at times over the sloth and slow pace of Martin. But with the way the show has moved on beyond the series, I really couldn't care less if he finishes the next or any of the remaining books. To heck with him.
There's no books to lose interest in. If the next ever comes out I'll be picking it up the day it comes out. The pace of the books is how the show was, and what it still should be, IMO.
Looking forward to tonight, crossing my fingers that the wait is worth it.
Let's be honest. You are going to hate the episode. The episode could get 10/10 on every review site on the planet, everyone on BBI could be rejoicing in tears and you will complain about the pacing.... ;)
loved a few of the episodes last season. But the pacing is an issue for me, it's more soap opera now than it was in earlier seasons.
Even still, I've said countless times it's still one of the best shows made, but I'm allowed to think there are areas to improve on. They've completely thrown away several promising stories for the path of least resistance and to increase shock value. It's exactly what Breaking Bad did which I also had a problem with.
In any case, here's to the end of a long wait, looking forward to tuning in early to set the tone before 9.
kind of like that feeling I'd get on Christmas Eve as a kid, wait all year hoping to please the big guy and it all came down to 1 night.
At least here we have 15 episodes left stretched out over an excruciatingly long period of time, but similar feeling for me, yet still I'm looking forward to it.
no idea what possible book spoilers people are so concerned with when it's been so long since the books had relevance, and yet people are posting reddit theories all over the thread, but I never understood the book reader vs non-read divide on here, and never participated in those battle so apologies in advance if that stirs up any shit. no my intent.
that's left that hasn't been guessed or hypothesized by someone. The only stuff is Dorne and that entire plot died anyway. Everything from here on out is just as much a guess for book readers and non readers.
in my life if you are insinuating that's what I was doing. If you watch the latest preview you can pull out little shots that insinuate some of what I was saying but Im just guessing.
As for spoilers, people here brought up the whole Catherin thing many times in non-book spoiler threads.
That's the kind of thing I had in mind when I said what I did. Maybe it doesn't yet come into play. Maybe it does.
Season 6 revealed that the Children of the Forest created them to protect them from "man".
I think there is more to the story there. Did humans really build the wall? It's positively massive and all ice. Doesn't seem likely. Maybe the walkers built it to keep humans out?
Didn't stop people from accusing me of posting Reddit spoilers. Lol
Holy shit dude, get over yourself, you are such an insecure narcissist. I wasn't even talking about you.
another poster suggested Jamie would kill Cersei. I haven't seen a trailer show that - did I miss it?, but I have read several reddit theories on the topic, some purported to come from show runners or translators, one of them says Jamie will kill Cersei.
not suggesting it's a spoiler, since others believe it will be Jon Snow or Tyrion due to the "little brother theory", but I didn't even mean you, much to your chagrin.
Here you go backing down like a mouse. Not only did you say "multiple Reddit theories" but you also commented on my post about spoilers. Are you going to try to say that wasn't meant for me too? As always, PJ needs to make a stand for the forum and the thread and be the thread police. Whatever. My response was in jest. It's not a big deal.
Here you go backing down like a mouse. Not only did you say "multiple Reddit theories" but you also commented on my post about spoilers. Are you going to try to say that wasn't meant for me too? As always, PJ needs to make a stand for the forum and the thread and be the thread police. Whatever. My response was in jest. It's not a big deal.
Out of respect to other posters, I won't let you make another thread about you. have a good night.
Sickened when we last saw him watching Cersei take the throne. He's been on a bit of a redemption arc for many seasons now. Many people see him eventually taking Cersei down due to this. It doesn't have to be from Reddit.
has been spot on so far, though she has misinterpreted it every step of the way. At this point, it would be surprising if she didn't meet her end at the hands of Jamie.
Jamie would seem to be doomed too. Though we'll see. I'd love for him to finally be able to break away from the hold of Cersei and live his life. I'm a fan of the kingslayer
has been spot on so far, though she has misinterpreted it every step of the way. At this point, it would be surprising if she didn't meet her end at the hands of Jamie.
Jamie would seem to be doomed too. Though we'll see. I'd love for him to finally be able to break away from the hold of Cersei and live his life. I'm a fan of the kingslayer
Yeah. This too. I forgot about the prophecy. If it's true, and I imagine it would be since everything else has come true, she only has two ways she can die. Tyrion or Jaime.
it would be Tyrion given their poor relationship. But the same way she thought the children with golden hair would be Rhaegar's not Jamie, or the one more beautiful was Margaery but it turns out to be Dany, she seems destined to be wrong too about which brother will end her.
Either way, I cannot wait to see how it plays out.
Tyrion's arc is basically complete. He ended his father who never loved him and blamed him for his mother's death. He also finally is at a place where he is "wanted" as hand of the queen.
Sticking with Cersei for a minute, without her kids I think she completely loses it. Her kids were the one thing that kept her somewhat grounded. She might go full psycho now.
The latest preview shows a fleet of ships docking at Kings Landing. It could be Theon and his sister but I doubt it. It's going to be Euron IMO.
Anyone else going to drink an Ommegang brew tonight? Â
I'm going to have the Bend the Knee golden ale brewed with honey.
While it's super corny, I look forward to GoT and Walking Dead (which I hate now) because I watch both shows with 2 of my neighbors. The 3 of us get together, I bring the beer and/or scotch, they bring the wine and food. Tonight will be beer, Bourbon, wine, meat + cheese board. It's a great way to end the weekend.
RE: RE: Anyone else going to drink an Ommegang brew tonight? Â
I'm going to have the Bend the Knee golden ale brewed with honey.
While it's super corny, I look forward to GoT and Walking Dead (which I hate now) because I watch both shows with 2 of my neighbors. The 3 of us get together, I bring the beer and/or scotch, they bring the wine and food. Tonight will be beer, Bourbon, wine, meat + cheese board. It's a great way to end the weekend.
Not corny at all. Sounds like a good time. And the other guys need the booze to deal with your bitching. :)
don't have the heart to go down a critical path with them when we are all just trying to unwind to end the weekend. But I will laugh when there's a big eye roll moment. TWD is another story, I think the 3 of us agree that it blows though they like it more than I do.
I'm watching the repeat of last season on HBO right now Â
Winds of Winter is the best episode the show has done. Which is really saying something to have that in season 6. Just watched it again today, not a wasted second in that one.
RE: I'm watching the repeat of last season on HBO right now Â
Yup me too. With some time to reflect, Battle of the Bastards and Winds of Winter have to be two of the best episodes of TV ever filmed. They are feature film quality directing, acting, visual effects, music, everything. Rewatched some of the best episodes of earlier seasons recently too like Hardhome, some amazing productions.
Which in the end is why the last two seasons have been cut shorter. As the showrunners have talked about in interviews, continuing to produce episodes like that mean they're essentially filming movies. We all want more GOT, but I can understand their plan.
are back to back the best episodes in the series hands down. Throw in the resurrection of John, The Door, and even The Broken Man.... Season 6 is my second favorite season after only season 4. Amazing stuff.
The writers have said their original intentions all along were to do 7 seasons for 7 books. They have reiterated this a number of times in interviews.
We are not getting two short seasons. We are getting one last super season split in half.
You've likely ready more about it that me, but isn't it true HBO actually wanted more episodes, but the writers insisted on cutting it down?
I dont know. There was a lot of rumors and BS being thrown around for a while. Some people were saying HBO was running out of money which is laughable IMO. Considering HBO is planning out three separate prequels after the series is done that clearly isn't the case. As to the writers cutting it short? Seems unlikely. They've said their original intention was 7 seasons so considering they ended up doing more it seems like an extension if anything.
Showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss tell EW that seven is probably the magic number.
“It feels like this is the midpoint for us,” Benioff says. “If we’re going to go seven seasons, which is the plan, season 4 is right down the middle, the pivot point.”
The seven season goal-line has been floated in the media before, but the writer-producers of the acclaimed fantasy hit series says they’re firmer than before that three more seasons sounds about right.
“I would say it’s the goal we’ve had from the beginning,” Benioff says. “It was our unstated goal, because to start on a show and say your goal is seven seasons is the height of lunacy. Once we got to the point where we felt like we’re going to be able to tell this tale to its conclusion, that became [an even clearer] goal. Seven gods, seven kingdoms, seven seasons. It feels right to us.” Link - ( New Window )
From Weis:
“Things are moving faster because in the world of these characters the war that they’ve been waiting for is upon them,” showrunner Dan Weiss explains. “The conflicts that have been building the past six years are upon them and those facts give them a sense of urgency that makes [the characters] move faster.”
“I feel like I’d been lulled into a different pace,” Coster-Waldau says. “Everything happened quicker than I’m used to … a lot of things that normally take a season now take one episode.”
Agrees Jon Snow actor Kit Harington: “This season is really different than any other season because it’s accelerating toward the end, a lot of stuff collides and happens much much quicker than you’re used to seeing on Thrones … it’s so different than what everybody is used to. It’s quite exciting.”
1. Mormont (of the Night Watch) indicated to Jon that he knew Craster was giving up his boys to the White Walkers. But, he also seemed to not know the walkers / wights were around.
Was that just a story-telling error?
2. If the wall repels the undead, why is there any concern that the walkers will ever come south? Did Bran really ever need to go north of the wall to find the Raven?
RE: I re-watched the whole series over the last months in preparation. Â
1. Mormont (of the Night Watch) indicated to Jon that he knew Craster was giving up his boys to the White Walkers. But, he also seemed to not know the walkers / wights were around.
Was that just a story-telling error?
2. If the wall repels the undead, why is there any concern that the walkers will ever come south? Did Bran really ever need to go north of the wall to find the Raven?
1. Probably one of those things where it was out of sight out of mind. Morning was dealing with dwindling numbers and a threat of widlings, the white walkers likely didn't seem real enough.
2. They say the horn can take the wall down but the wall is also weak if it isn't fortified by men. With many of he castles unmanned it seems like the wall is super vulnerable. They also have Giants now as well.
Yes, she was in the same castle Stannis was occupying but it's also the Targaryan castle. This is where all her ancestors lived and where she was born. Her and her brother had to flee across the narrow see when Robert Baratheon took over.
It must have been very emotional to finally return home to the place she grew up after being gone for so long.
Who will Iron Islands guy kill to earn Cersei's trust?
Jon Snow and Sansa going at it in front of everyone - with littlefinger watching. Who is right - I think Jon is right to try and unite the north but it's a fine line
Why spend so much time with the Hound and a family he robbed? Is that father/daughter going to be white walkers next episode and kill him?
I assume that was Jorah that reached out to Sam at the end?
RE: RE: Stannis would never leave the castle unoccupied. Â
He's saying Stannis would not have left for the North with no one protecting his only remaining stronghold. If he is successful in the North and someone just walks into Dragonstone he has to now go and take it back by force
1.) Stannis marched north... He needed every man possible for his cause. He wasn't going to leave people behind to defend a castle that wasn't even his.
2.) Why didn't Cersei claim it? Why would she? She has a skeleton crew that's barely able to defend Kings Landing right now and she is surrounded by enemies everywhere.
Good episode, starting with a great opening scene with Arya finishes Â
The Jon Snow/Sansa angst is weird...Littlefingers question was a good one - what exactly does she want? Good for Jon to shut her up at the council with the other Northerners
Love the Hound and the Brotherhood teaming up. And Euron stole the episode with his scene with Cersei and Jamie. I'm here with a thousand ships...and two hands. Lol. Looks like he's going to be great as the new awful bad guy to replace Ramsay.
Overall the episode set the chessboard up quickly, about what was expected.
It's largely unimportant other than sentimental value Â
to Targaryens, except for the obvious spoilers that happened during Sam's appearance. The conversation with the Maester was supposed to remind the viewer that the world has largely forgotten anything having to do with the white walkers.
How were there no squatters? For such a valuable piece of property and strategic launching point, makes zero sense that it would just be empty. I'll just chalk this up ti a writing oversight.
Also don't feel this was slow at all. Sure it was a setup episode, but it's the fn opener. They took the fallout from the last few episodes and neatly lined everything into place in one hour, typically this took half the season.
RE: RE: RE: Stannis would never leave the castle unoccupied. Â
He's saying Stannis would not have left for the North with no one protecting his only remaining stronghold. If he is successful in the North and someone just walks into Dragonstone he has to now go and take it back by force
Maybe we were watching different television shows. Stannis needed every single soldier imaginable to come with him. Dragonstone is a massive place. He would have had to leave behind hundreds of soldiers to defend that place. Seems absolutely pointless. Stannis wanted to rule the Iron Throne. He was either going to take it and live there or die trying.
How were there no squatters? For such a valuable piece of property and strategic launching point, makes zero sense that it would just be empty. I'll just chalk this up ti a writing oversight.
Also don't feel this was slow at all. Sure it was a setup episode, but it's the fn opener. They took the fallout from the last few episodes and neatly lined everything into place in one hour, typically this took half the season.
Who's going to squat there with no food and water? What specific group would want to be there? Everyone remaining has there own castles and territories.
I can think of another place that's likely deserted too. Herrenhal or however its pronounced. The place Tywin took over temporarily and setup camp.
the same TV show and you just don't go and leave one of the most strategic launching points in all of Westeros unmanned. You said the castle wasn't even his, it was given to him by his brother Robert years ago. The castle is his. Not to mention Stannis while at the wall said I have tons of dragon glass at Dragonstone.. and yet he didn't send anyone to mine it?
It's a volcanic island that can't sustain much more than a fishing Â
the same TV show and you just don't go and leave one of the most strategic launching points in all of Westeros unmanned. You said the castle wasn't even his, it was given to him by his brother Robert years ago. The castle is his. Not to mention Stannis while at the wall said I have tons of dragon glass at Dragonstone.. and yet he didn't send anyone to mine it?
lol. Ok. Wow. Let' just agree to disagree. Stannis barely had an army left at the end. It was pathetic. But he was supposed to send half of them back to some far off castle to keep for strategic purposes? And yeah Robert gave it to him after he seized it and took it from the Targaryans. Big whoop. I doubt Stannis had any attachment to the place.
How were there no squatters? For such a valuable piece of property and strategic launching point, makes zero sense that it would just be empty. I'll just chalk this up ti a writing oversight.
Also don't feel this was slow at all. Sure it was a setup episode, but it's the fn opener. They took the fallout from the last few episodes and neatly lined everything into place in one hour, typically this took half the season.
Who's going to squat there with no food and water? What specific group would want to be there? Everyone remaining has there own castles and territories.
I can think of another place that's likely deserted too. Herrenhal or however its pronounced. The place Tywin took over temporarily and setup camp.
It's the perfect launching point for a military campaign on kings landing, so first and foremost, the incumbents would do everything to secure it.
Do you think the US would just abandon Hawaii or Puerto Rico if they were limited in resources? Of course not. Even if they were that stupid, an enemy would occupy it for the obvious reasons. Even if the enemy were that stupid, an ally would for negotiating leverage. A loose analogy but it still holds. Just lazy.
I really enjoy the show, so I'm not going to dwell on it, but definitely an oversight by the writers.
Holy shit. lol. Most of Stannis's army was defeated in Blackwater Bay by Tyrion. He had a few hundred soldiers when he went north. But yeah! Let's leave them to defend Hawaii!
You guys are overthinking the Dragonstone debate Â
Stannis used it as a staging point, but his goal was never to hold it. He was consumed with his attack on Westeros. The Lannisters may have been smart enough to defend it, but then Tywin was killed and it took a while for Cersei to rise to power, and then they were too busy taking back Riverrun to divert part of their army to Dragonstone.
They've all known Daenerys is coming...but the other houses have been so busy fighting amongst themselves that none of them have been in a position to consolidate power and consider how best to defend Westeros against the coming Targaryen invasion
If anything, maybe the part of Stannis's army that deserted outside Winterfell would have gone back there, but why would they be motivated to defend it having abandoned Stannis's cause already?
It's only a mark because the show is typically a lot smarter, so I hold it to a higher standard. I would just expect one of the players in the story to see the miliatary importance of an empty fucking island right outside the capital. I didn't go to West Point, but kinda common sense.
That too. Stannis hoped John would join him but he really just bought into being "the one" so much that he didn't really care about the numbers. Ultimately, it lead him to his doom.
I am still curious if he's alive somehow. They never actually showed Brianne kill him which was odd for this show.
It's only a mark because the show is typically a lot smarter, so I hold it to a higher standard. I would just expect one of the players in the story to see the miliatary importance of an empty fucking island right outside the capital. I didn't go to West Point, but kinda common sense.
Ok. Well I hear your point and I dont agree at all. It is 1000% logical for it to be abandoned in my opinion. And Dragonstone and Kings Landing are not on top of each other. It's no closer to Kings Landing than Riverrun or Storms End.
RE: I dont know what your talking about...Sorry... Â
1.) Stannis marched north... He needed every man possible for his cause. He wasn't going to leave people behind to defend a castle that wasn't even his.
2.) Why didn't Cersei claim it? Why would she? She has a skeleton crew that's barely able to defend Kings Landing right now and she is surrounded by enemies everywhere.
Pretty much this. Stannis suffered a brutal defeat when he unsuccessfully tried to take King's Landing. When he went north he needed every able bodied fighter bc of the potential wildling threat and the Bolton's. Besides, what would leaving some bullshit crew at Dragonstone accomplish? Who would they be able to hold off?
Same issue with Cersei's army. They have legitimate threats in every direction -- it's all hands on deck to protect King's Landing. Why waste bodies at Dragonstone?
Regardless, very minor issue to bitch about. Best case it's a gratuitous blood bath where the holders get massacred by her army.
Enjoyed the episode. Planted the seeds for some conflict between Jon and Sansa. With Bran at the wall now, I wonder if what he knows gets to Baelish who uses it to create a situation in the North.
while it was still occupied by the remaining Targaryan's who fled King's Landing.
it was not a staging point (or at least that wasn't the intent).
Before Stannis captured dragonstone Daenerys and Viserys were "smuggled" to bravos.
Any emotion Daenerys felt from returning isn't because of the place she grew up in, she was probably 3 or 4 when she went to bravos, at least IMO.
at least that's how I remember it.
It's probably abandoned because #1 Stannis army is gone and if there was anyone there they probably fond a way to bolt when they see all the unsullied, dothraki, and dragons approaching.
Yeah I just don't get how there is this huge disconnect Â
For you, and you think the island being vacant is an writers oversight. Granted I have read the books and understand the scale of th NFS, but the show has done an incredible job keeping everyone filled in. I mean common there has been all out world war pretty much since the end of season one! Westeros is nearly at the point where they can't possibly even go on any further. The whole episode this was alluded too as well. Jamie pointed it out to Cersei, the Brotherhood without banners around the campfire with Arya, at the table with Jon in the North. Everyone is sick of years and years of war and famine. The show has highlighted this multiple times, if that went over your head then maybe it's just to complicated of a story for you, stick to the network sitcoms I guess.
RE: I figured Euron was speaking of Tyrion's head Â
It's only a mark because the show is typically a lot smarter, so I hold it to a higher standard. I would just expect one of the players in the story to see the miliatary importance of an empty fucking island right outside the capital. I didn't go to West Point, but kinda common sense.
Ok. Well I hear your point and I dont agree at all. It is 1000% logical for it to be abandoned in my opinion. And Dragonstone and Kings Landing are not on top of each other. It's no closer to Kings Landing than Riverrun or Storms End.
That's fair. It's a legit gripe, doesn't really deserve the lol treadment. There's only 12 episodes so it's possible they had to cut a few corners to fast track the narrative.
Like I said, I enjoy the show and will continue to enjoy it. I like to lose myself in a story, so after asking why the hell Ed Sheeran was in Westeros, I didn't need to be questioning that.
He has dragons and two armies by his side. Impossible. Sadly I think it's going to be Arya's head. She is heading to Kings Landing to kill Cersei. We know from the prophesy it wont happen. Euron stops her and wins Cersei's trust IMO.
She wouldn't be emotional to return to the home of all her ancestors? Her parents? Disagree.
possible. I'm just not sure how much a 3 or 4 year old remembers of their home that age.
She was definitely emotional, I think it was more all the shit she's been through to finally reclaim the land she was forced from or that he quest is starting to become real.
He has dragons and two armies by his side. Impossible. Sadly I think it's going to be Arya's head. She is heading to Kings Landing to kill Cersei. We know from the prophesy it wont happen. Euron stops her and wins Cersei's trust IMO.
Their whole conversation was about her not trusting him for murdering his own family members, and Euron knows how she feels about Tyrion. I can see him probably kidnapping him and bringing him back to KL for one last Lannister family reunion.
Loved the opening, such perfect revenge, especially with them eliminating Lady Stoneheart in the show, pretty much closed up the Frey payback storyline.
Deep down I want to say Sansa trusts Jon, and will do the right thing and not be blinded by her own personal agenda for vengeance and what not. But Littlefinger is bad news around her, and leaves me overly cautious.
Can't wait till Bran and Jon finally meet again. Looking forward to that big time.
I'll be disappointed if Jon Snow and Arya never cross paths. Â
She wouldn't be emotional to return to the home of all her ancestors? Her parents? Disagree.
possible. I'm just not sure how much a 3 or 4 year old remembers of their home that age.
She was definitely emotional, I think it was more all the shit she's been through to finally reclaim the land she was forced from or that he quest is starting to become real.
Didn't her brother talk about Dragonstone in season 1? Also, the only book I read (Book 1) she has flashbacks of leaving there as a child doesn't she? I know I said no book spoilers but I dont think that would be one.
He has dragons and two armies by his side. Impossible. Sadly I think it's going to be Arya's head. She is heading to Kings Landing to kill Cersei. We know from the prophesy it wont happen. Euron stops her and wins Cersei's trust IMO.
I don't think Euron can sail to the Riverlands
Why would he have to sail to the Riverlands? Arya said she was on her way to Kings Landing?
from Euron seems to hint at being an enemy of cersei's, alive or dead.
Tryion, Sansa, Jon Snow, any remaining Tyrell's Euron made a comment about how she should try killing her bother.
maybe foreshadowing.
more I think about it Samwell Tarly could be the one to save westeros.
He's going to tell Jon via Raven that he needs to get to dragonstone to get the dragon glass and there jon and daenerys will meet and from their maybe form an alliance or some agreement.
RE: I figured Euron was speaking of Tyrion's head Â
She wouldn't be emotional to return to the home of all her ancestors? Her parents? Disagree.
possible. I'm just not sure how much a 3 or 4 year old remembers of their home that age.
She was definitely emotional, I think it was more all the shit she's been through to finally reclaim the land she was forced from or that he quest is starting to become real.
Didn't her brother talk about Dragonstone in season 1? Also, the only book I read (Book 1) she has flashbacks of leaving there as a child doesn't she? I know I said no book spoilers but I dont think that would be one.
It's not a big deal, I just don't think someone who lived somewhere until 3 or 4 (and it wasn't even 3 or 4 years since she fled Kings' Landing to go there) qualifies as "place she grew up" I think she spent more time in Bravos than Dragonstone.
again, not a big deal, agree she was emotional and probably a lot of reasons.
Quote:
It must have been very emotional to finally return home to the place she grew up after being gone for so long
look, when the boss died and the paychecks dried up Â
I just dont see how it's logical. He is protected by hundreds and thousands of soldiers and dragons.
Also. Arya is also an enemy clearly. If Cersei finds out she is responsible for killing all the Freys, their last remaining ally, she will absolutely want her dead.
The whole prospect of her going there has me feeling uneasy. If the prophecy is correct, Arya will fail.
No one even knows exists? Area Stark is a faceless assasin, who everyone has long forgot about in Westeros. The Lannisters were dumbfounded as to how all the Freys got killed, they would laugh if anyone said it was Arya Stark.
By all indications he was referring to Tyrion, they exhausted conversation over him killing off members of his family and he suggesting she do it more. He also knows how much she despises Tyrion.
I don't think Arya makes it back to KL, I think something else may come along and change her plans. I have to revisit who is still alive on her list,obviously Jamie and Cersei, but there are others she needs to work her way up through first.
He has dragons and two armies by his side. Impossible. Sadly I think it's going to be Arya's head. She is heading to Kings Landing to kill Cersei. We know from the prophesy it wont happen. Euron stops her and wins Cersei's trust IMO.
I don't think Euron can sail to the Riverlands
In the World of Ice and Fire--the history of Westeros coffee-table book that I was nerdy enough to read--the Iron Islanders do sail into the Riverlands. In fact, until Aegon came, the Riverlands were usually ruled by the Baratheons, Iron Islanders, or (I think) Lannisters. The Riverlands didn't become "self-ruled" until the Tullys threw their lot in with the Targaryens. That said, I don't know why Euron would have any reason to go there.
As to Dragonstone, it was a small fishing village. The native islanders didn't put up a fight when Aegon came, they didn't put up a fight when the Baratheons took over, and it makes no sense for them to put up a fight now. There was no reason for Stannis to leave soldiers there--his ancestral home is Storm's End and Dragonstone is not that valuable a piece of real estate other than as a launching point into King's Landing (which he no longer had the ships to do). And as others have said, the Lannisters didn't have the army to protect King's Landing.
I find Sam's storyline boring as hell, so I don't expect much when he's on the screen. But I found everything else compelling for one reason or another.
Cersei and Jamie haven't been of the same mind on anything for a long time. And now Cersei has emotionally detached herself from their kids, and that will push Jamie further away. If Cersei loses Jamie, she's got nothing -- other than FrankenMountain.
RE: look, when the boss died and the paychecks dried up Â
the remaining soldiers at Dragonstone deserted their posts.
Would you keep coming to work if your weren't being paid?
Maybe the North? If they're too busy I'd figure the Tyrell's would devote some of their unlimited resources or the ladies of dorne would occupy it as well. Hell, the people of the Iron islands would look to occupy it for leverage into marrying into the crown. I mean the place doesn't even exist in reality and I wanted to grab it as a rental property. We're talking about common sense here. I've already written it off as an oversight or narrative necessity given how much time and budget we have left, but it can't be explained away like this.
Obviously something happens to change her course, and who knows what that may be. The only way that prophecy holds true with Arya doing the deed is if she's wearing Jaime or Tyrion's face. I feel like they'd be overplaying that hand a bit though.
I suspect Euron will miraculously capture Tyrion in a surprise attack Â
Probably foiled by one of the Ironborne with Asha and Theon, we know that they are planning for an attack against Cersei somewhere. I think Euron gets tipped off, targets Tyrion and kidnaps him alive. He won't kill him,he will leave Cersei the pleasure to do that. And IMO, that may be the straw that breaks Jamie's back and ultimately names him Queenslayer in the end. Just my hunch.
Based on information from previous episodes, it is known that Stannis's fleet numbers 200 ships, including 30 sellsail vessels commanded by Salladhor Saan. They outnumber the royal fleet 10-1, indicating that the royal fleet in Blackwater Bay consists of just 20 ships. Only one - the ship filled with wildfire and leaking it into the bay - takes part in the battle, the other nineteen having been sent out of the area on Tyrion's order. That was season 2. And after Stannis effectively tries to attack King's Landing, nobody chases him to Dragonstone because, really, nobody has a navy. Remember the context of the show. King's Landing is in financial disarray. They owe money because of Robert's mismanagement. They can't afford a navy.
By the time Stannis leaves Dragonstone in season 4, he has to hire ships just to leave. The reason why the Greyjoy fleets are so critical right now is because navies aren't really a thing on this side of the world. Just about everything in the seven kingdoms is done over land.
One thing about Sams conversation with the arch maester Â
about winter and the white walkers...and arch maester made the point the Wall has survived every war and every winter. I wonder if that's foreshadowing the Wall will fall, with help of the horn.
Just guessing, but I wonder if Euron could go after Olenna...and in doing so hope to somehow force Highgarden to support the Lannisters again...with the supplies Jamie and Cersei were talking about. That would sure win Cersei over
I agree it's doubtful it's Tyrion or Arya, only bc I doubt their storylines would go that way
All signs point to many family reunions. One the Starks which will bring them all together and two the Lannisters. Where they will tear each other apart. I think when Arya heard the soldiers talk about going home to their families, it struck a chord. It's been since season one that they were actually all together, Winterfell seems like the place where they will all meet again. Bran is already on his way there, I assume Arya will be too.
Just a guess, but I feel like Sansa's line about him being a good ruler was more than a throwaway line. Especially since Jon hasn't really shown himself to be a great leader on screen (plenty brave but not all that cunning). There's also the importance of being Rhaegar's son. His father set it all into motion and Jon has a pretty good claim.
RE: I suspect Euron will miraculously capture Tyrion in a surprise attack Â
Probably foiled by one of the Ironborne with Asha and Theon, we know that they are planning for an attack against Cersei somewhere. I think Euron gets tipped off, targets Tyrion and kidnaps him alive. He won't kill him,he will leave Cersei the pleasure to do that. And IMO, that may be the straw that breaks Jamie's back and ultimately names him Queenslayer in the end. Just my hunch.
That seems plausible the way you thought it out. I just dont know how he's going to get to Tyrion. Dont forget Theon and Yara are with Daenys too and would spot him immediately. Seems like a huge stretch.
Obviously something happens to change her course, and who knows what that may be. The only way that prophecy holds true with Arya doing the deed is if she's wearing Jaime or Tyrion's face. I feel like they'd be overplaying that hand a bit though.
I think that would cheapen the prophecy. I mean it's a prophecy. It's not like the prophecy itself would be tricked by Arya. It's all knowing...
Everyone knows Arya exists or at least they are about to. She removed her mask and left a girl alive to tell everyone what happened to the Frey's. She even said tell everyone "Winter has came" which was the Stark motto. Im guessing the news spreads quickly enough.
Just a guess, but I feel like Sansa's line about him being a good ruler was more than a throwaway line. Especially since Jon hasn't really shown himself to be a great leader on screen (plenty brave but not all that cunning). There's also the importance of being Rhaegar's son. His father set it all into motion and Jon has a pretty good claim.
Yeah I always listen for those dialogue clues - like last season when Dario told Dany, "You're a conqueror, not a ruler." Made me think it will be Jon at the end, ruling whatever and whoever remains.
A song of Ice and Fire (Stark Ice- Fire Targayan). I could see them both ruling though. Maybe Jon takes over the north, even north of the wall... and Daenyrys rules Kings Landing and the 7 Kingdoms.
Who would find it plausible that one girl who went missing from Â
Westeros and hasn't been seen in forever with as capable of killing all of the Freys. It would sound like a tall tale especially coming from the only witness a young child. She also never revealed her name, no one knows who she is and what she looks like. I mean hell, she pretended to be a boy in season one when she was fresh in KL and no one knew it was Arya Stark, they all pictured some little princess like her sister Sansa.
Believe me, Arya didn't blow her cover and even if she did, no one is buying that she alone was capable of killing a whole mess hall full of Freys in their own home.
Westeros and hasn't been seen in forever with as capable of killing all of the Freys. It would sound like a tall tale especially coming from the only witness a young child. She also never revealed her name, no one knows who she is and what she looks like. I mean hell, she pretended to be a boy in season one when she was fresh in KL and no one knew it was Arya Stark, they all pictured some little princess like her sister Sansa.
Believe me, Arya didn't blow her cover and even if she did, no one is buying that she alone was capable of killing a whole mess hall full of Freys in their own home.
I dont know. She left a witness to describe who she was and yelled the Stark Quote. Once the girl says it was a Stark with short brown hair and not long red hair it kind of narrows down the choices. I think people in Westeros know of the "faceless men and their assassin abilities". Why would it be a stretch for Arya, who has been gone a long time, to have learned from one? Especially if the girl literally saw her rip a face off her head of Walder Frey. Yeah it sounds crazy... but we are operating in a world of magic, dragons, and zombies.
Minor, shallow point... but it's interesting to see how these actors and actresses are aging too.
That's one of my favorite parts. It adds a sense of realism. Not only do they physically change over the seasons, they have grown as actors IMO which relates to them growing as people in this world and "evolving".
I don't think anyone would underestimate any of the Starks. They are way too powerful and important. Just because Arya left as a girl doesn't mean people wouldn't consider her a threat if they knew she was still alive. They know she is now much older and that all the Starks want the Lannisters dead.
Not a big issue, but it doesn't seem like a big stretch to me.
Four people are likely responsible for the deaths of Cersei's kids: Â
Cersei doesn't even know about the first two. She still blames Tyrion and Sansa. But she sure know about the Sands. Ellaria and the Snakes would make a nice gift too - with the added bonus for the show-runners that the audience doesn't like them any better than Cersei does. Tyrion, by contrast, might be GoT's most beloved character. Killing him would be Ned Stark x 2.
And there was another girl in the mess hall, an older one who witnesses everything and seemed to dissapear. They made it a point of showing her, perhaps your right. Arya may now have a target on her back, but when she can change her appearance and has been the master of deception and hiding/ getting away, I feel she will be just fine, at least for the time being.
The Freys don't really have any friends, not even the Lannisters cared much for them. I don't see the Lannisters exhausting resources trying to find and capture Arya given they can barely hold KL at the moment.
And there was another girl in the mess hall, an older one who witnesses everything and seemed to dissapear. They made it a point of showing her, perhaps your right. Arya may now have a target on her back, but when she can change her appearance and has been the master of deception and hiding/ getting away, I feel she will be just fine, at least for the time being.
The Freys don't really have any friends, not even the Lannisters cared much for them. I don't see the Lannisters exhausting resources trying to find and capture Arya given they can barely hold KL at the moment.
Yup. I remember that girl too. I agree they wouldn't waste resources trying to find Arya but if Arya is on her way there anyway and Euron intercepts her and kills her... Cersei will definitely be grateful. Also Jaime, made a point to say the Freys were one of their last allies. Not saying its a huge conquest if she gets Arya but it would be a nice token possibly.
Based on the three titles HBO has released for the first three episodes. If that's the case a whole lot needs to happen in episode 2. We shall see!
No way does Cersei die so soon into this season. We would still have 10 more episodes left. I think the conclusion of that battle might take us to the season finale or even past.
Once Cersei is removed, all you have left are the White Walkers. They are not compelling actors to hold our attention for a whole season by themselves. Lol
He has dragons and two armies by his side. Impossible. Sadly I think it's going to be Arya's head. She is heading to Kings Landing to kill Cersei. We know from the prophesy it wont happen. Euron stops her and wins Cersei's trust IMO.
I would be shocked to see Arya killed. I think she is someone who will make it to the end. Better find another head, not hers.
RE: RE: Yeah I think Arya winds up going to Winterfell. Â
Obviously something happens to change her course, and who knows what that may be. The only way that prophecy holds true with Arya doing the deed is if she's wearing Jaime or Tyrion's face. I feel like they'd be overplaying that hand a bit though.
I think that would cheapen the prophecy. I mean it's a prophecy. It's not like the prophecy itself would be tricked by Arya. It's all knowing...
It's a prophecy that is told/interpreted by a "seer". They could easily interpret a masked Arya as one of Cersei's brothers. Though I doubt it's Arya who kills her.
I don't think all the Starks can communicate with the wolves. They all share a deep bond, but Bran has the special powers to actually "become" a wolf/crow and see through their eyes. My guess is that once Arya reunites with Nymeria, Bran somehow senses it and gets her to change course to Winterfell.
A song of Ice and Fire (Stark Ice- Fire Targayan). I could see them both ruling though. Maybe Jon takes over the north, even north of the wall... and Daenyrys rules Kings Landing and the 7 Kingdoms.
Targaryens also historically marry within the family to keep the bloodline "pure". And the books at least hint at the bloodline being a reason for their bond with dragons. Seems likely that Jon leads a group to Dragonstone to get dragon glass, encounters Dany and the dragons and that the dragons somehow sense he's part Targaryen.
was the Hound with the Brotherhood. Really enjoying the development of Sandor Clegane and the back and forth with Thoros and Beric is enjoyable. Unfortunately, it seems like they're heading for the worst place to be in the world right now.
Overall solid episode, the world is condensing nicely and this was a good way to set up the pieces
And there was another girl in the mess hall, an older one who witnesses everything and seemed to dissapear. They made it a point of showing her, perhaps your right. Arya may now have a target on her back, but when she can change her appearance and has been the master of deception and hiding/ getting away, I feel she will be just fine, at least for the time being.
The Freys don't really have any friends, not even the Lannisters cared much for them. I don't see the Lannisters exhausting resources trying to find and capture Arya given they can barely hold KL at the moment.
Yup. I remember that girl too. I agree they wouldn't waste resources trying to find Arya but if Arya is on her way there anyway and Euron intercepts her and kills her... Cersei will definitely be grateful. Also Jaime, made a point to say the Freys were one of their last allies. Not saying its a huge conquest if she gets Arya but it would be a nice token possibly.
How would Euron even know Arya is on her way to Kings Landing? He clearly had someone in mind when he made the offer and I'd be shocked if it was Arya. More likely (IMO) he's thinking one of these:
A song of Ice and Fire (Stark Ice- Fire Targayan). I could see them both ruling though. Maybe Jon takes over the north, even north of the wall... and Daenyrys rules Kings Landing and the 7 Kingdoms.
Targaryens also historically marry within the family to keep the bloodline "pure". And the books at least hint at the bloodline being a reason for their bond with dragons. Seems likely that Jon leads a group to Dragonstone to get dragon glass, encounters Dany and the dragons and that the dragons somehow sense he's part Targaryen.
Now keep in mind Daenerys is Jon's aunt. In GOT, brother/sister love is accepted...but aunt/nephew? Eeeeeewwww
RE: RE: RE: I think the whole story is about Jon Â
Solid opening episode. The intro was great, cool to see all the Frey's go out like that. They touched just about every major plot point and set the tone to move each story forward. My favorite scene was probably Sam talking with the Grand Measter while helping him do an autopsy.
I don't think Arya will make it to KL, she will get diverted by something. I also don't think she will be Euron's gift. Its likely that gift comes from the sea and we know there will be a naval battle this season so my money is on that.
I think Sansa respects Jon, I don't see her betraying him but I guess its possible. I hope Littlefinger throws a wrench in that though, he's the only one that can stir up some shit right now in the north.
Jon going to Dragonstone seems unrealistic from a timing perspective. The dragonglass is key but there's got to be another way to get it north, from someone that already in the south.
The Hound is awesome, hopefully he can stay alive most of the season. Very interested to see where his crew ends up and how they fare.
At this point it seems pretty unrealisitc for anyone to back Cersei but its obviously going to happen. Her position shouldn't have any leverage at all and should be an easy defeat now that Dany landed close by, but something will come up.
It just so happens Jorah is where Sam is. He seems like he likely candidate to make the journey there, and send the glass North at Sams request.
I didn't think about it, but now that it was mentioned it makes sense for Euron gift to be one of the Dragons. He can take one down with that fleet I'd imagine. Viscerion is likely to go. Hope he takes many with him.
but even if he doesn't, delivering the dragon glass to the north would be his last and most heroic act so seeing him go out that way would be pretty cool. He'd need help though and Sam has no money or power...
know that Jon and Daenerys are in any way related.
not saying it wouldn't still be a sort of incestuous relationship, but if you don't know about it....and a lot of plot would have to happen to believe that union is realistic, like after these 7 episodes and something with the Night's King causing the remaining Westeros forces to stop fighting each other and act in self preservation mode.
I think this is a 2018/2019 story line or whenever they finish season 7.
RE: RE: I think Jaime kills Cersei as soon as episode 3 Â
Based on the three titles HBO has released for the first three episodes. If that's the case a whole lot needs to happen in episode 2. We shall see!
No way does Cersei die so soon into this season. We would still have 10 more episodes left. I think the conclusion of that battle might take us to the season finale or even past.
Once Cersei is removed, all you have left are the White Walkers. They are not compelling actors to hold our attention for a whole season by themselves. Lol
I think the 6 episodes next summer will be the Great War and conclusion. I think all the political stuff in Westeros will get tied up this season and I definitely think Cersei goes down this summer. That only leaves 6 episodes. Euron will also be another baddie and there will be other issues to clean up. We'll see.
but even if he doesn't, delivering the dragon glass to the north would be his last and most heroic act so seeing him go out that way would be pretty cool. He'd need help though and Sam has no money or power...
Did he touch Sam? I couldn't tell if he made contact.
Well, they did find a way to stop it spreading with Â
Shireen (Stannis Daughter), I expect them to have done the same with Jorah. Perhaps, Sam helps him escape the Citadel, Why he would be locked in there is beyond me, but it doesn't look like he is free to just leave. Jorah will honor an agreement with Sam if he helps him escape, Plus all Jorah has on his mind is getting to Dany, who is on Dragonstone!
Sam will likely converse with Jorah and I'm sure he will tell him about Jorah's father and what happened to him. Jorah will feel more compelled than ever to help Jon out. It just makes the most sense at this stage.
I wonder what happened to Robin Arryn, I remember seeing him last season, and I know he loves Sansa, I hope Sansa is cunning enough to play him against Littlefinger if he should attempt to use the Vale against the North. Who knows though.
I'm not sure how they can devote an entire season Â
to fighting a war against an enemy that doesn't communicate. I'd much rather have two plot points going on to prevent that, with Jon and Co having to worry about the north and the south at the same time.
And there was another girl in the mess hall, an older one who witnesses everything and seemed to dissapear. They made it a point of showing her, perhaps your right. Arya may now have a target on her back, but when she can change her appearance and has been the master of deception and hiding/ getting away, I feel she will be just fine, at least for the time being.
The Freys don't really have any friends, not even the Lannisters cared much for them. I don't see the Lannisters exhausting resources trying to find and capture Arya given they can barely hold KL at the moment.
Yup. I remember that girl too. I agree they wouldn't waste resources trying to find Arya but if Arya is on her way there anyway and Euron intercepts her and kills her... Cersei will definitely be grateful. Also Jaime, made a point to say the Freys were one of their last allies. Not saying its a huge conquest if she gets Arya but it would be a nice token possibly.
How would Euron even know Arya is on her way to Kings Landing? He clearly had someone in mind when he made the offer and I'd be shocked if it was Arya. More likely (IMO) he's thinking one of these:
I don't know that he necessarily had somebody in mind. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. He seems a little crazy. He could have just been very confident that he would find something she'd like. As for Arya, maybe he is tipped off that she is on her way there. You have soldiers and multiple witnesses who have seen her and seen her intentions now. Not saying it's going to happen. Just throwing out a possible theory.
The North needs men too however, I imagine Dany, the Tyrells and the Martells are more than enough to take care of Cersei and Euron in the South. Once that is over, I imagine Dany turns her support to providing the North with all the help she can. She needs to unite the South and quickly, Jon has already united the North, but I fear it won't be enough to hold against the massive WW army. Bran needs to warg into Drogon.
RE: I'm not sure how they can devote an entire season Â
to fighting a war against an enemy that doesn't communicate. I'd much rather have two plot points going on to prevent that, with Jon and Co having to worry about the north and the south at the same time.
I can. "Entire season" is 6 episodes. I'd say you need at least 2 on each end for setup and conclusion. That leaves two episodes in the middle for the actual war. I'd be shocked if this summer doesn't end with Daenyrs and the entire Westeros army getting ready to clash with the White Walkers.
and reunite with her family. But I understand her desire for vengeance. Just think that's going to go wrong somehow.
Sansa turning on Jon, at least temporarily, is being so heavily telegraphed at this point. Hopefully the show doesn't go in that direction. It'd be too predictable
RE: RE: I'm not sure how they can devote an entire season Â
to fighting a war against an enemy that doesn't communicate. I'd much rather have two plot points going on to prevent that, with Jon and Co having to worry about the north and the south at the same time.
I can. "Entire season" is 6 episodes. I'd say you need at least 2 on each end for setup and conclusion. That leaves two episodes in the middle for the actual war. I'd be shocked if this summer doesn't end with Daenyrs and the entire Westeros army getting ready to clash with the White Walkers.
I should have rephrased. Having 6 episodes dedicated to a war against an enemy that doesn't speak doesn't strike me as the best way to run your finale season. There needs to be some other threat or problem going, IMO.
to fighting a war against an enemy that doesn't communicate. I'd much rather have two plot points going on to prevent that, with Jon and Co having to worry about the north and the south at the same time.
I can. "Entire season" is 6 episodes. I'd say you need at least 2 on each end for setup and conclusion. That leaves two episodes in the middle for the actual war. I'd be shocked if this summer doesn't end with Daenyrs and the entire Westeros army getting ready to clash with the White Walkers.
I should have rephrased. Having 6 episodes dedicated to a war against an enemy that doesn't speak doesn't strike me as the best way to run your finale season. There needs to be some other threat or problem going, IMO.
Ok. Well I agree it's not going to be a 6 hour battle without talking. I think there is some back story with the Knight's King, ect they can explore. I'm not even convinced the White Walkers are bad.
RE: Well, they did find a way to stop it spreading with Â
Shireen (Stannis Daughter), I expect them to have done the same with Jorah. Perhaps, Sam helps him escape the Citadel, Why he would be locked in there is beyond me, but it doesn't look like he is free to just leave. Jorah will honor an agreement with Sam if he helps him escape, Plus all Jorah has on his mind is getting to Dany, who is on Dragonstone!
Sam will likely converse with Jorah and I'm sure he will tell him about Jorah's father and what happened to him. Jorah will feel more compelled than ever to help Jon out. It just makes the most sense at this stage.
I wonder what happened to Robin Arryn, I remember seeing him last season, and I know he loves Sansa, I hope Sansa is cunning enough to play him against Littlefinger if he should attempt to use the Vale against the North. Who knows though.
Shireen was saved from further spread of Grayscale because she got it as a young child. The older the person is that gets it, the harder it is to stop. I am assuming hes locked up of his own free will. Dany told him to find a cure so he went to the place with the most knowledge in Westeros
How did Cersei find out Tyrion had been named hand of the Queen?
Could be explained generally that word had spread, or could be Qyburn has spies watching Daenerys's armies. I don't imagine Daenerys and company sent ravens out announcing the news.
The only reason it registered with me was I was hoping for a scene where Cersei and Daenerys face off on a battlefield or in a political tet-a-tet, and we get to see Cersei's surprise when she discovers Tyrion's ascendancy
Could simply be a plot point the writers didn't see fit to expand on
I would think Euron's "gift" would still be on a ship.
Who did we not see enter Dragonstone ?
Ellaria Sand , she poisoned the Queens only daughter.
Her head/death would have to read well with Cersei & Jamie Lannister
Haven't rewatched, but I'm pretty sure we got another glimpse of the anticipated Yara/Ellaria lesbo sesh in the scenes from next episode. Could be a prelude to Ellaria's downfall
How does he get himself on the throne or see his path to the throne?
It needs to happen!
There has to be something coming out of left field, and my hope is it will be his doing. Everything looks like its going to wrap up a specific way, but it won't (or atleast it shouldn't).
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I figured Euron was speaking of Tyrion's head Â
I would think Euron's "gift" would still be on a ship.
Who did we not see enter Dragonstone ?
Ellaria Sand , she poisoned the Queens only daughter.
Her head/death would have to read well with Cersei & Jamie Lannister
Haven't rewatched, but I'm pretty sure we got another glimpse of the anticipated Yara/Ellaria lesbo sesh in the scenes from next episode. Could be a prelude to Ellaria's downfall
could see Bron involved in this encounter as well as he had a certain affinity with one of the sand snake women.
How does he get himself on the throne or see his path to the throne?
It needs to happen!
There has to be something coming out of left field, and my hope is it will be his doing. Everything looks like its going to wrap up a specific way, but it won't (or atleast it shouldn't).
Yeah, in earlier seasons, season 1? lol it seemed like it was hard to expect what was happening (other than for book readers).
Ned's downfall surprised, heck Bran being shoved out the window in the first chapter (page?) shocked me, red wedding, Tywin, I think the show is due for a curve ball.
throughout the realm, someone tipped her off easily. Dany's entourage is hard to go undetected at this point, especially with 3 fully grown dragons.
I am 50/50 on Eurons gift being either a Dragon, or Tyrion. I'm leaning Dragon and here's why: Don't read this however, if you don't want to know what happened in the books!!!
* One thing that hasn't happened that did in the books was at the Kingsmoot. Euron appeared with an magical dragon horn (Dragonbinder I beleive it was called) from the ruins of Valyria that was said to be able to call dragons. It never came out in the Kingsmoot on the show, and makes perfect sense if they are to introduce it for him to use it to try and capture one of Dany's dragons. I suspect he will use it and take down one of the dragons, his gift will be the dragon dead or alive to Cersei (Most likely dead). Cersei will likely send the head back to Dany to try and intimidate her. Just my guess as no one but a Targaryen can truly tame a dragon.
How does he get himself on the throne or see his path to the throne?
It needs to happen!
There has to be something coming out of left field, and my hope is it will be his doing. Everything looks like its going to wrap up a specific way, but it won't (or atleast it shouldn't).
Yeah, in earlier seasons, season 1? lol it seemed like it was hard to expect what was happening (other than for book readers).
Ned's downfall surprised, heck Bran being shoved out the window in the first chapter (page?) shocked me, red wedding, Tywin, I think the show is due for a curve ball.
littlefinger and Cersei something like that.
Yeah, something like that would be interesting. Littlefinger knows he can't trust the Starks longterm and if he doesn't already he will soon know he's being used. He also has no place anywhere near the throne of the Starks + Dany win.
to fighting a war against an enemy that doesn't communicate. I'd much rather have two plot points going on to prevent that, with Jon and Co having to worry about the north and the south at the same time.
I can. "Entire season" is 6 episodes. I'd say you need at least 2 on each end for setup and conclusion. That leaves two episodes in the middle for the actual war. I'd be shocked if this summer doesn't end with Daenyrs and the entire Westeros army getting ready to clash with the White Walkers.
I should have rephrased. Having 6 episodes dedicated to a war against an enemy that doesn't speak doesn't strike me as the best way to run your finale season. There needs to be some other threat or problem going, IMO.
Maybe the 'overseas' banks arrive with an armada to collect their debt?
and reunite with her family. But I understand her desire for vengeance. Just think that's going to go wrong somehow.
Sansa turning on Jon, at least temporarily, is being so heavily telegraphed at this point. Hopefully the show doesn't go in that direction. It'd be too predictable
Maybe Bran arrives in Winterfell just in time to stop Sansa's scheming and convince her of the real threat the WW are (and to stick by family).
it's gonna get wiped out somehow, or there wont be much intrigue.
I think that's what the Iron Fleet's role will be--deal her a significant blow at sea to her troops to make the battle with the Lannisters less pre-determined.
How does he get himself on the throne or see his path to the throne?
It needs to happen!
There has to be something coming out of left field, and my hope is it will be his doing. Everything looks like its going to wrap up a specific way, but it won't (or atleast it shouldn't).
maybe reading way too much into it ... but he seemed quite in tune with Sansa / Jon Snow "arguing" over strategy
Gonna be interesting, Littlefinger is 1 of my favorite story lines
it's gonna get wiped out somehow, or there wont be much intrigue.
I think that's what the Iron Fleet's role will be--deal her a significant blow at sea to her troops to make the battle with the Lannisters less pre-determined.
I'm feeling a Iron Fleet vs Dany battle about to happen as a huge storm rolls in, crushing 95% of the Boats
RE: RE: RE: RE: Stannis would never leave the castle unoccupied. Â
He's saying Stannis would not have left for the North with no one protecting his only remaining stronghold. If he is successful in the North and someone just walks into Dragonstone he has to now go and take it back by force
Maybe we were watching different television shows.
Yeah, totally. They're obviously talking about Two Broke Girls.
Tyrion doesn't know, Varys doesn't know, Littlefinger doesn't know, or do they?
We know there were only two people who survived Tower of Joy, Howland Reed and Ned, Ned never told anyone from what we know and Howland Reed was the other. He's still living, correct?
I ask because it could be a hint at plots to come, that secret has to be revealed and at some level is probably what connects Jon and Daenerys.
IMO, Euron would have no inkling of Arya and a low likelihood of finding or capturing her. Nor is she as personal a favor as is the murderess of her daughter. ( the closest she killed was a dispensible Frey. Not that Cersei minds Arya dead but its not like she cares about any Stark as much as Sansa.
Regarding Sansa, while we concentrate on her respectful difference ( notice how easily they patched it up) with Jon, notice that she had nothing but contempt for Littlefinger ( and is clearly suspicious of is every utterance) but admires Jon ( just thinks his nobility has to get mixed with cunning).
I don't think any betrayal is going to last long. I think it more likely she makes a mistake that hurts Jon and learns or her cunning and hardness helps Jon be practical at a critical turning point ( an immoral act for a greater good).
Lastly, we all think Cersei is Jons arch rival in the end game and Dany and he will unite. Could be that Cersei is colorfully irrelevant and Danys desire to be the one last word royal is the final opposition to a new way to lead. Sansa's value as one who understands Machevelli may be to Jon in opposition to Dany.
Obviously, speculation. But Martin ( and it is roughly still his ending) does love to confound his followers
Tyrion doesn't know, Varys doesn't know, Littlefinger doesn't know, or do they?
We know there were only two people who survived Tower of Joy, Howland Reed and Ned, Ned never told anyone from what we know and Howland Reed was the other. He's still living, correct?
I ask because it could be a hint at plots to come, that secret has to be revealed and at some level is probably what connects Jon and Daenerys.
Tyrion doesn't know, Varys doesn't know, Littlefinger doesn't know, or do they?
We know there were only two people who survived Tower of Joy, Howland Reed and Ned, Ned never told anyone from what we know and Howland Reed was the other. He's still living, correct?
I ask because it could be a hint at plots to come, that secret has to be revealed and at some level is probably what connects Jon and Daenerys.
A simple DNA test would show it.
LOL, maybe they should just log in to ancestry.com
Tyrion doesn't know, Varys doesn't know, Littlefinger doesn't know, or do they?
We know there were only two people who survived Tower of Joy, Howland Reed and Ned, Ned never told anyone from what we know and Howland Reed was the other. He's still living, correct?
I ask because it could be a hint at plots to come, that secret has to be revealed and at some level is probably what connects Jon and Daenerys.
A simple DNA test would show it.
LOL, maybe they should just log in to ancestry.com
at least has a suspicion of Jon's true lineage. Remember in the crypts with Sansa, discussing Lyanna he very clearly knew more about her and Rhaegar than he let on.
Read that somewhere online and it could make sense. The character has been rumored to be returning to the show. Last remaining "heir" with Baratheon lineage.
Read that somewhere online and it could make sense. The character has been rumored to be returning to the show. Last remaining "heir" with Baratheon lineage.
How is that a gift though?
I'd think it's more likely to be the Ellaria Sand and her Sand Sister daughters for killing Myrcella. Not sure how Gendry is much of an offering.
I assume that was Jorah that reached out to Sam at the end?
Yes, that was Jorah.
The Hound's story just definitely took a weird turn.
The Hound and the Brotherhood are likely going to play a pretty crucial role soon encountering the white walkers. Got to set that up. I enjoyed those scenes and the call back to the man and his daughter
It's great that Martin (and co) can turn disliked characters into sympathetic characters so easily.
Jamie, Tyrion, the Hound, Varys, even Khal Drogo and the wildings to an extent and I'm sure others.
cersei has been the one constant (still living), if there was a way for Cersei to team up with the Night King and the white Walkers it would make things more convenient.
as it stands now, there will be battle among the 7 kingdoms before they can turn their attention to the others.
Also, this episode was a snooze. They really should be pacing this shit better in season 7. Enough with the character development already.
It'll probably be at least another episode before the pace starts to ramp up. It's not really character development so much as setting up the plot and storylines for the season, which is pretty par for the course with GoT.
It's great that Martin (and co) can turn disliked characters into sympathetic characters so easily.
Jamie, Tyrion, the Hound, Varys, even Khal Drogo and the wildings to an extent and I'm sure others
I never disliked either Tyrion or Varys. To me, it as always apparent that they didn't stand for what their more ruthless and corrupt peers did.
Tyrion is GRRM's favorite character in the books, he's said as much.
I thought he said Littlefinger is his favorite character?
Anyway, I wanted to see the little man fly. Early in the story, when he was still understood to be squarely a Lannister I think he was disliked, at least in the books (by me).
I always found him funny and liked his appearances in the book and think he nailed it in the show, but I don't think I truly came around on Tyrion until Joffrey/Cersei forced him to marry Sansa.
Varys while not completely disliked really helped contribute to Nedd's death (even if inadvertently).
and they decide to blow it with two final short seasons. Never been more frustrated by a series for what it failed to do.
I'd consider clicking on the links I provided in this very thread. The intention was 7 seasons. They are giving us bonus episodes. Nothing was cut short.
and they decide to blow it with two final short seasons. Never been more frustrated by a series for what it failed to do.
I'd consider clicking on the links I provided in this very thread. The intention was 7 seasons. They are giving us bonus episodes. Nothing was cut short.
I won't get into it again because its tiresome at this point and no one's mind is changing, but like a football HC, I'm taking many interviews with a grain of salt. And what was once planned almost a decade ago is surely due to see some change after many different factors take shape.
If you consider them bonus episodes, great. IMO they should have either ended it in 2017 with a full season or add on atleast another full season but we are beyond that at this point.
and they decide to blow it with two final short seasons. Never been more frustrated by a series for what it failed to do.
I'd consider clicking on the links I provided in this very thread. The intention was 7 seasons. They are giving us bonus episodes. Nothing was cut short.
I won't get into it again because its tiresome at this point and no one's mind is changing, but like a football HC, I'm taking many interviews with a grain of salt. And what was once planned almost a decade ago is surely due to see some change after many different factors take shape.
If you consider them bonus episodes, great. IMO they should have either ended it in 2017 with a full season or add on atleast another full season but we are beyond that at this point.
My response wasn't directed to you and I don't really get your point anyway. You're unhappy with the way they split it up? Cool beans. My point is, for years and years and even after Season 4, the writers flat out said they only wanted to 7 seasons. That was there intent. Sure HBO loves stringing one last super season an extra year (just like Breaking Bad did) but the viewers arent getting gypped. Aside from the annoying wait, it's a good thing IMO. We are getting more than we should have.
A song of Ice and Fire (Stark Ice- Fire Targayan). I could see them both ruling though. Maybe Jon takes over the north, even north of the wall... and Daenyrys rules Kings Landing and the 7 Kingdoms.
Targaryens also historically marry within the family to keep the bloodline "pure". And the books at least hint at the bloodline being a reason for their bond with dragons. Seems likely that Jon leads a group to Dragonstone to get dragon glass, encounters Dany and the dragons and that the dragons somehow sense he's part Targaryen.
I really think Deanarys dies before ever ruling Westeros based on her vision at the house of the undying.
Would you have rather they just have had 10 episodes as a season 7 or are you happy to get the 4 extra episodes? I'll take the extra episodes.
I don't feel like I'm getting fleeced when it comes to hours of content. I feel I am getting fleeced on the storytelling aspect. Once they decided to speed up time it should have just been fully condensed, ending this year. Or they should have left the speed as is and done 2 more full seasons. Maybe when it's all said and done it won't matter but it's a gripe that more people other than myself have.
how it's done but I agree.. there's no sense arguing about it. Seems pretty pointless. My only gripe is for people that feel that they "lost content" and the writers or HBO screwed them. It's simply not true.
If you have a gripe about them speeding it up and wishing this season was only 10 and done... well. Tis your right!
That can't have been Wun-Wun, right? He died at Winterfell the day Jon took the castle. If anyone knows the importance of burning bodies - especially really big bodies - it's Jon Snow. And remember where the big lug got his name. Wun-Wun going over to the Wights would be like Simms suiting up for the Eagles. Martin still has a veto on certain plot elements, and I can't see him allowing that level of betrayal.
Lots of talk on this thread about Arya leaving survivors at the Twins, and basically announcing her identity like the villain in a superhero movie. I saw four or five serving girls, plus Walder's child bride. FWIW, I don't think they will be in any hurry to tell their story to the Lannisters. Those girls will probably be busy burying their dead and trying to survive, and with no army, they don't have much reason to expect sympathy or quarter from Queen Cersei. Besides, it's a long way from the Twins to Riverrun, which I think is the northern vertex of the Lannisters' current triangle of control: Lannisport/Casterly Rock in the west, King's Landing in the east, Riverrun in the north.
Writing Alys Karstark into the show was a nice easter egg for book readers.
They showed 2 giants in that scene...IMO to demonstrate the Night King had raised multiple giants from the dead, amongst thousands of other poor dead bastards. Generally, we know Wun Wun was essentially the last of a proud ancient race, and he chose to fight with Jon Snow along with the wildlings, dying heroically in the effort. I think we can assume his body was burned, along with all the others who died in the battle for winterfell
There was alot to set up, now that the game changed a bit going into this season. After 6 season's of Danaerys and the White Walkers being distant and ingnored threats, they are both suddenly on everyone's minds.
A few things stuck out to me.
1. The Jon v Sansa argument seemed a bit sloppy to me. I don't mind the dissagreement, but I have a hard time believing Sansa would do that in front of the bannermen like that. She didn't just dissagree with Jon. She openly suggested the lords could and should feel betrayed by Jon for showing mercy to the Umbers and Karstarks, while everyone was there in the room.
2. It a bit of fun irony that a former Lord Commander of the Night's Watch has now ordered an army of Wildlings to guard The Wall.
3. Euron's ship is badass looking.
4. Anyone else catch the drawing of that dagger in the book Sam was reading? It sure looked like Littlefinger's Valerian steele knife that was used to frame Tyrion in the attempted assasination of Bran, back in season 1. I doubt that shot was accident. We may see that dagger again this season.
5. When Sam was asking "Professor Slughorn" for permission to use the restricted section of the library, I kept expecting him to say "Its strictly for academic purposes of course"
Did anyone else want to slap Sam when he said "Stannis mentioned it (dragongalss), I just didn't think...."
WTF dude? You were supposed to be the smartest person at The Wall. I think Stannis even said something like "I'll have some shipped here." I sure hope Sam didn't go through all this at the Citadel just to find out something he was told 2 seasons ago.
There is evidence out there that shows Arrya in possession of that blade for this season. No Doubt it will have a meaningful impact at some point and for some purpose.
is the least confident person in the series, which hinders his brilliance. Could be sloppy writing, but I'll chalk it up to sticking to his character.
I agree on your 1st point, that Sansa/Jon exchange was weird. My problem was how aggressively she questioned him, but then pretty much made up and paid no mind to it in the next scene when she was recognizing his knack for leading.
There was alot to set up, now that the game changed a bit going into this season. After 6 season's of Danaerys and the White Walkers being distant and ingnored threats, they are both suddenly on everyone's minds.
A few things stuck out to me.
1. The Jon v Sansa argument seemed a bit sloppy to me. I don't mind the dissagreement, but I have a hard time believing Sansa would do that in front of the bannermen like that. She didn't just dissagree with Jon. She openly suggested the lords could and should feel betrayed by Jon for showing mercy to the Umbers and Karstarks, while everyone was there in the room.
2. It a bit of fun irony that a former Lord Commander of the Night's Watch has now ordered an army of Wildlings to guard The Wall.
3. Euron's ship is badass looking.
4. Anyone else catch the drawing of that dagger in the book Sam was reading? It sure looked like Littlefinger's Valerian steele knife that was used to frame Tyrion in the attempted assasination of Bran, back in season 1. I doubt that shot was accident. We may see that dagger again this season.
5. When Sam was asking "Professor Slughorn" for permission to use the restricted section of the library, I kept expecting him to say "Its strictly for academic purposes of course"
is the least confident person in the series, which hinders his brilliance. Could be sloppy writing, but I'll chalk it up to sticking to his character.
I agree on your 1st point, that Sansa/Jon exchange was weird. My problem was how aggressively she questioned him, but then pretty much made up and paid no mind to it in the next scene when she was recognizing his knack for leading.
That's why one of my favorite scenes of the series was when Sam admits to Jon he's been banging Gilly. He's been the guy who's been put down and bullied every step of the way, hope to see him rise above in the end
There was alot to set up, now that the game changed a bit going into this season. After 6 season's of Danaerys and the White Walkers being distant and ingnored threats, they are both suddenly on everyone's minds.
A few things stuck out to me.
1. The Jon v Sansa argument seemed a bit sloppy to me. I don't mind the dissagreement, but I have a hard time believing Sansa would do that in front of the bannermen like that. She didn't just dissagree with Jon. She openly suggested the lords could and should feel betrayed by Jon for showing mercy to the Umbers and Karstarks, while everyone was there in the room.
2. It a bit of fun irony that a former Lord Commander of the Night's Watch has now ordered an army of Wildlings to guard The Wall.
3. Euron's ship is badass looking.
4. Anyone else catch the drawing of that dagger in the book Sam was reading? It sure looked like Littlefinger's Valerian steele knife that was used to frame Tyrion in the attempted assasination of Bran, back in season 1. I doubt that shot was accident. We may see that dagger again this season.
5. When Sam was asking "Professor Slughorn" for permission to use the restricted section of the library, I kept expecting him to say "Its strictly for academic purposes of course"
That's because Sansa sucks.
I thought the Jon v Sansa argument was intentionally written that way with Sansa purposely questioning his intentions in front of the other lords for his response.
It allowed Jon to communicate he's his "father's" son with honor and fairness, and allowed Sansa to introduce how that approach literally cost Ned and Robb their heads.
I'm not saying Sansa was that devious to think of it, but I'd guess the writers did it intentionally.
There was alot to set up, now that the game changed a bit going into this season. After 6 season's of Danaerys and the White Walkers being distant and ingnored threats, they are both suddenly on everyone's minds.
A few things stuck out to me.
1. The Jon v Sansa argument seemed a bit sloppy to me. I don't mind the dissagreement, but I have a hard time believing Sansa would do that in front of the bannermen like that. She didn't just dissagree with Jon. She openly suggested the lords could and should feel betrayed by Jon for showing mercy to the Umbers and Karstarks, while everyone was there in the room.
2. It a bit of fun irony that a former Lord Commander of the Night's Watch has now ordered an army of Wildlings to guard The Wall.
3. Euron's ship is badass looking.
4. Anyone else catch the drawing of that dagger in the book Sam was reading? It sure looked like Littlefinger's Valerian steele knife that was used to frame Tyrion in the attempted assasination of Bran, back in season 1. I doubt that shot was accident. We may see that dagger again this season.
5. When Sam was asking "Professor Slughorn" for permission to use the restricted section of the library, I kept expecting him to say "Its strictly for academic purposes of course"
That's because Sansa sucks.
I thought the Jon v Sansa argument was intentionally written that way with Sansa purposely questioning his intentions in front of the other lords for his response.
It allowed Jon to communicate he's his "father's" son with honor and fairness, and allowed Sansa to introduce how that approach literally cost Ned and Robb their heads.
I'm not saying Sansa was that devious to think of it, but I'd guess the writers did it intentionally.
I hear you. I was a great contrast, with Jon wanting to do the "honorable thing", like Ned and Sansa thinking politically, like Cersie.
Its not the fact that she disagreed with him in publicly that bugged me. It was that she was basically hinting at mutiny, to all the lords sitting there, if Jon gave back the castles to the Umbers and Karstarks. She even got Lyana Mormont to raise an eyebrow at the thought.
The Arya witnesses are going to just go back to their every day lives like nothing happened. Lol. She literally kept them alive and said "tell people what happened here!". If nothing comes of it, it would actually be sloppy writing IMO.
I know the pacing will once again be sped up, but I hope we get at least 1 more traveling scene with the Brothers Without Banners.
Beric, Thoros, and The Hound have great chemistry together. You have the serious, determined leader; the drunken, partier zealot; and the brooding cynic. All you need is a tech-savy warrior (blacksmith Gendry??) and they are basically the Ninja Turtles.
She did kill every single Frey worth anything however Â
This sort of leaves a power vacuum in the Riverlands for Edmure to retake Riverrun with little opposition. KL can't really afford to send any troops up there to help with any more siege's. Especially with having to worry about Dany, the Reach and Dorne all at KL doorsteps. If anything Arya wanted to make clear that the North is still strong, and isn't to be fucked with, can't wait for the family reunion.
The Arya witnesses are going to just go back to their every day lives like nothing happened. Lol. She literally kept them alive and said "tell people what happened here!". If nothing comes of it, it would actually be sloppy writing IMO.
The incident was already brought up a couple of times in the episode. Cersie mentions that after "the bloody mess with the Freys" they have no allies left. Also those Lannister soldiers, Arya sat with, were there because the Frey's were wiped out.
I bet more "rumors" about what happened there will start to make thier way to Winterfell and Kingslanding. It may lead to Cersie becoming increasingly paranoid. I doubt the show will never speak about it again.
I know the pacing will once again be sped up, but I hope we get at least 1 more traveling scene with the Brothers Without Banners.
Beric, Thoros, and The Hound have great chemistry together. You have the serious, determined leader; the drunken, partier zealot; and the brooding cynic. All you need is a tech-savy warrior (blacksmith Gendry??) and they are basically the Ninja Turtles.
The Arya witnesses are going to just go back to their every day lives like nothing happened. Lol. She literally kept them alive and said "tell people what happened here!". If nothing comes of it, it would actually be sloppy writing IMO.
What do you think should come of it?
Quote:
"When people asked you what happened here. Tell them, the North remembers. Tell them, Winter came for House Frey."
Think I have explained that many times throughout the thread but I think word is going to get out that A.) She's alive and B.) She did it.
She ripped off her mask, revealed who she was, yelled the Stark phrase, and then told everyone to spread the news. Lol
It's just strange people think her identity will be hidden and nobody will ever find out she did anything IMO
To be fair. I doubt any of the serving girls, or Walder's young wife knew who Arya was or that there even was another Stark girl besides Sansa.
Cersie and everyone else in Kingslanding has thought Arya dead for a while now. Cersie will most likley think it was Jon and Sansa that orchestrated the massacre, or maybe the Brotherhood Without Banners, but I doubt Arya would even be in Cersie's mind.
Jon and Sansa may be a different story. I hope there is a scene where they try to figure out who planned, since all of the Northern lords are with them in Winterfell.
Think I have explained that many times throughout the thread but I think word is going to get out that A.) She's alive and B.) She did it.
She ripped off her mask, revealed who she was, yelled the Stark phrase, and then told everyone to spread the news. Lol
It's just strange people think her identity will be hidden and nobody will ever find out she did anything IMO
Nobody disputes that others will find out she's alive and that she murdered the Freys. They dispute that Euron will kill Arya as a gift to Cersei. Even if Cersei knows Arya is alive and responsible for the Freys' deaths, Arya is still probably relatively low on her wish list after:
Tyrion
Sand women
Sansa
probably some others I'm forgetting
Also, that's a lot of work to go through (the whole Arya arc) just for her to kill the Frey's before meeting her death. IMO, there's a bigger part for her to play in it all.
to the war with the White Walkers? I just think it would be a bit of a rout with 3 dragons breathing the very thing e army of the dead is so susceptible to. Maybe one makes it, maybe one ends up with the army of the dead to balance it out, but it just feels like it would become lopsided. I wouldn't be surprised to see one or all fall this season as Dany tries to take Westeros. Eoron's gift could be a dozen things, I just have a feeling he's going to use the horn to bring Visyrion and Rhaegal to heel. And if Cersei can't use them in battle, maybe she'll make a public display of emir execution.
As for Wun Wun...logistically it couldn't possibly be him. But they did make it a point to zero in on the giants eyes, with the same one that Ramsay shot out missing. Misleading but I'm sure we can chalk it up to sloppy writing. Unless of course there's more to be revealed that we don't know about.
I'm not sure how it all works since she fled Bravos, but it seems she still has access to the Great Hall of Faces or whatever it's called and can assume the identity of any dead person.
she can be killed, of course she can, and at any time, but I see her more of the one who seeks vengeance for Jon's and/or Sansa's death and is the surviving Stark (maybe Bran too).
the biggest "issue" I had with the opener the more I think about it (and I realize it's fiction and a fantasy story) is that Arya killed Walder Frey the end of season 6. So how long had passed between the end of season 6 and the beginning of season 7 where she buried the body so no one knew, acted as Walder Frey in his face, and called another feast and set up the "red wedding revenge"?
RE: Does anyone get the feeling the dragons won't make it Â
to the war with the White Walkers? I just think it would be a bit of a rout with 3 dragons breathing the very thing e army of the dead is so susceptible to. Maybe one makes it, maybe one ends up with the army of the dead to balance it out, but it just feels like it would become lopsided. I wouldn't be surprised to see one or all fall this season as Dany tries to take Westeros. Eoron's gift could be a dozen things, I just have a feeling he's going to use the horn to bring Visyrion and Rhaegal to heel. And if Cersei can't use them in battle, maybe she'll make a public display of emir execution.
As for Wun Wun...logistically it couldn't possibly be him. But they did make it a point to zero in on the giants eyes, with the same one that Ramsay shot out missing. Misleading but I'm sure we can chalk it up to sloppy writing. Unless of course there's more to be revealed that we don't know about.
If I had my way I'd rid the show of the dragons as soon as possible. Its a budget suck, they don't look all that great on screen and having them should be a fairly simple routing in an actual battle. I think the showrunners are married to them at this point but I hope atleast a couple of them die this season.
I believe the slaughter was right after she killed Walder last season. She said she invited them here tonight all for a second feast, assuming she killed Walder after the first one, and all the Frey's were there at thte time to celebrate taking over domain of Riverrun and their rise in power.
I also alluded to it earlier that I believe Euron will bring out the horn Dragonbinder and catch a Dragon or Two. That will be the gift and makes sense.
I'm not sure how it all works since she fled Bravos, but it seems she still has access to the Great Hall of Faces or whatever it's called and can assume the identity of any dead person.
she can be killed, of course she can, and at any time, but I see her more of the one who seeks vengeance for Jon's and/or Sansa's death and is the surviving Stark (maybe Bran too).
the biggest "issue" I had with the opener the more I think about it (and I realize it's fiction and a fantasy story) is that Arya killed Walder Frey the end of season 6. So how long had passed between the end of season 6 and the beginning of season 7 where she buried the body so no one knew, acted as Walder Frey in his face, and called another feast and set up the "red wedding revenge"?
I think the episode began essentially shortly after she killed Frey in the finale. Then the rest of the episode began after some more time had lapsed, word spread, and arya started making her way north. That's how it would make sense to me.
I'm not sure how it all works since she fled Bravos, but it seems she still has access to the Great Hall of Faces or whatever it's called and can assume the identity of any dead person.
she can be killed, of course she can, and at any time, but I see her more of the one who seeks vengeance for Jon's and/or Sansa's death and is the surviving Stark (maybe Bran too).
the biggest "issue" I had with the opener the more I think about it (and I realize it's fiction and a fantasy story) is that Arya killed Walder Frey the end of season 6. So how long had passed between the end of season 6 and the beginning of season 7 where she buried the body so no one knew, acted as Walder Frey in his face, and called another feast and set up the "red wedding revenge"?
I believe they say the two feasts (where she kills Walder and then the one where she is Walder) happened within a 'fortnight'.
I'm not sure how it all works since she fled Bravos, but it seems she still has access to the Great Hall of Faces or whatever it's called and can assume the identity of any dead person.
she can be killed, of course she can, and at any time, but I see her more of the one who seeks vengeance for Jon's and/or Sansa's death and is the surviving Stark (maybe Bran too).
the biggest "issue" I had with the opener the more I think about it (and I realize it's fiction and a fantasy story) is that Arya killed Walder Frey the end of season 6. So how long had passed between the end of season 6 and the beginning of season 7 where she buried the body so no one knew, acted as Walder Frey in his face, and called another feast and set up the "red wedding revenge"?
Wasn't it supposed to have been the same night? She said in her speech that everyone got to be called together twice in one day I thought. Might have to listen to it again but I assumed the real Frey was just laying in the back on the floor somewhere. I think time sped up a little after that scene because Jaime and Cersei had already heard in their next scene.
to the war with the White Walkers? I just think it would be a bit of a rout with 3 dragons breathing the very thing e army of the dead is so susceptible to. Maybe one makes it, maybe one ends up with the army of the dead to balance it out, but it just feels like it would become lopsided. I wouldn't be surprised to see one or all fall this season as Dany tries to take Westeros. Eoron's gift could be a dozen things, I just have a feeling he's going to use the horn to bring Visyrion and Rhaegal to heel. And if Cersei can't use them in battle, maybe she'll make a public display of emir execution.
As for Wun Wun...logistically it couldn't possibly be him. But they did make it a point to zero in on the giants eyes, with the same one that Ramsay shot out missing. Misleading but I'm sure we can chalk it up to sloppy writing. Unless of course there's more to be revealed that we don't know about.
I can definitely see Euron capturing/killing one in the next 2-3 episodes.
Also, aren't Jon and Dany the only two that can fully tame the dragons since all the other Targaryen's are dead? Seems to me they have 1 too many dragons right now...
RE: Does anyone get the feeling the dragons won't make it Â
to the war with the White Walkers? I just think it would be a bit of a rout with 3 dragons breathing the very thing e army of the dead is so susceptible to. Maybe one makes it, maybe one ends up with the army of the dead to balance it out, but it just feels like it would become lopsided. I wouldn't be surprised to see one or all fall this season as Dany tries to take Westeros. Eoron's gift could be a dozen things, I just have a feeling he's going to use the horn to bring Visyrion and Rhaegal to heel. And if Cersei can't use them in battle, maybe she'll make a public display of emir execution.
As for Wun Wun...logistically it couldn't possibly be him. But they did make it a point to zero in on the giants eyes, with the same one that Ramsay shot out missing. Misleading but I'm sure we can chalk it up to sloppy writing. Unless of course there's more to be revealed that we don't know about.
I think she'll probably lose one Dragon at some point before the "final battle." It would surprise me if she lost all three.
There has been some theorizing about the possibility of a Wight Dragon. Which would be pretty wild
We are assuming that marching army was still beyond the wall, but perhaps they were marching to Winterfell. I assume they would have burned Wun Wun and all the bodies, but who knows, perhaps the freefolk took him north to be buried.
We are assuming that marching army was still beyond the wall, but perhaps they were marching to Winterfell. I assume they would have burned Wun Wun and all the bodies, but who knows, perhaps the freefolk took him north to be buried.
Them bypassing the wall would be a huge plot point that they have to show, IMO. Not only that but they can't be past the wall yet unless the widlings that are now going to fortify the wall meet the wights in route.
I can think of several reasons the showrunners would have decided... Â
...to have Arya leave survivors. On the most basic level, her awesome, mic-drop exit line works better if there's somebody alive in the room to deliver it to. Also, she's still a beloved character, and very much Ned's daughter. Slaughtering innocents isn't her thing - in fact, it has always pissed her off, from the Butcher's boy through the doomed farmer and his daughter (early victims of the Hound) all the way through her training at the House of Black and White.
While Arya might be stretching things when she (as Walder) attributes the Red Wedding to every now-adult male Frey of consequence, she draws the line at punishing the girls, who have absolutely no say in anything at the Twins. Aside from Walder's young wife, the girls serving the wine might not even be family members.
Would it be "smarter" to kill them? Not necessarily. Consider the mystique of the Faceless Men: just showing one of their coins to a Braavosi captain was enough to book Arya's passage across the Narrow Sea. Arya might be bringing a bit of that assassin swagger back to Westeros. For houses in the Riverlands wavering in their loyalty to the crown, knowing that a single young wolf just wiped out all the Frey sheep could be a pretty persuasive recruiting tool.
Arya is also a big part of the girl-power ethos that the show has embraced lately. There's an element of sisterhood/empowerment in her "liberating" the women of House Frey - probably the least "woke" house in Westeros.
Will sparing the girls wind up costing Arya in the end? I doubt it. There are too many reasons for the show to have made that choice, other than to set up her downfall. And Arya puts herself in danger all the time. If the showrunners plan to kill her, they don't need serving girls from House Frey to put the Lannister army on her trail. She just told a platoon of them that she's on her way to the capitol to kill the queen.
Yeah I don't think sparing the girls lives end up costing her life... Â
I think her going to Kings Landing brimming with overconfidence ends up costing her life.
Ultimately, I think Arya is going to die. Throwing out that Euron intercepts her was just something I threw out as a means to make that happen. Realistically, I see her maybe going down in a ball of fury like Scarface and and maybe taking out the Mountain along the way. Who knows. Nobody knows much right now. We are all just throwing out guesses.
Maybe from a lately standpoint you mean Sansa's confidence or Lyanna Mormont or even Arya the assassin, but Martin always emphasized the strong women (and the things they'd make men do).
from Cersei, Catelyn/Lady Stoneheart, Oleanna, Melisandre, the Sand Snakes, Arya, Lysa, Daenerys, Brienne, Ygritte, even Sansa, Gilly, and Margaery, as well as Lyanna Mormont, etc.
Here. That writer seems to be picking up the same clues/uneasy feeling I'm getting. I just think she's going to go down in some bittersweet or tragic way.
Maybe from a lately standpoint you mean Sansa's confidence or Lyanna Mormont or even Arya the assassin, but Martin always emphasized the strong women (and the things they'd make men do).
from Cersei, Catelyn/Lady Stoneheart, Oleanna, Melisandre, the Sand Snakes, Arya, Lysa, Daenerys, Brienne, Ygritte, even Sansa, Gilly, and Margaery, as well as Lyanna Mormont, etc.
Yeah. Literally the whole world is ruled by women at the moment.
I feel the opposite about Yara. I think she is only around to die, forcing Theon's character to come full circle and take on the role of leader of the Iron Born and kill his uncle.
RE: She did kill every single Frey worth anything however Â
This sort of leaves a power vacuum in the Riverlands for Edmure to retake Riverrun with little opposition. KL can't really afford to send any troops up there to help with any more siege's. Especially with having to worry about Dany, the Reach and Dorne all at KL doorsteps. If anything Arya wanted to make clear that the North is still strong, and isn't to be fucked with, can't wait for the family reunion.
Excellent point about Arya's uncle Edmure. With all the Frey's taken out, that should now leave Edmure (who was married to one of Walter's daughters, as the only remaining heir to take over Riverrun.
RE: Even with John... Sansa probably has the best Â
Also, aren't Jon and Dany the only two that can fully tame the dragons since all the other Targaryen's are dead? Seems to me they have 1 too many dragons right now...
There have been several clues but I think Tyrion isn't Tywin's son but the son of the Mad King.
Making Tyrion a Targaryen, possible heir to the throne and potential dragon rider.....if they go down that road with that theory.
RE: RE: Even with John... Sansa probably has the best Â
Also, aren't Jon and Dany the only two that can fully tame the dragons since all the other Targaryen's are dead? Seems to me they have 1 too many dragons right now...
There have been several clues but I think Tyrion isn't Tywin's son but the son of the Mad King.
Making Tyrion a Targaryen, possible heir to the throne and potential dragon rider.....if they go down that road with that theory.
I think those clues are coming from the books, no?
RE: RE: Even with John... Sansa probably has the best Â
I feel the opposite about Yara. I think she is only around to die, forcing Theon's character to come full circle and take on the role of leader of the Iron Born and kill his uncle.
Also, aren't Jon and Dany the only two that can fully tame the dragons since all the other Targaryen's are dead? Seems to me they have 1 too many dragons right now...
There have been several clues but I think Tyrion isn't Tywin's son but the son of the Mad King.
Making Tyrion a Targaryen, possible heir to the throne and potential dragon rider.....if they go down that road with that theory.
I think those clues are coming from the books, no?
Z, never read the books. I'm mostly referencing the clue's from the TV show.
1) Tywin was the Mad King's hand but an incident caused him to leave that post and return to Casterly Rock....(Possibly the Mad King raping Tywin's wife and why Tywin was so eager to take revenge when his Lannister army sacked Kings Landing and why his forces were so brutal.)
2) There were several clues\quotes here to support that position from Tywin when he told Tyrion in season 4 on what selfless acts he did for the family "There was no way to prove you weren't my son"......then when Tyrion shot Tywin in season 4 finale "You're no son of mine!"
I think those two line help define the thoughts that Tywin had about Tyrion not being his actual son and the offspring of what the Mad King did to his wife.
3) Most telling to me, was when Tyrion unshackled the dragons. If I remember correctly, the two dragons that were locked away weren't eating and were violent against anyone who came near them. Tyrion then freed both and my guess is the dragon's sensed Targaryen blood and didn't harm Tyrion when he first approached them.
Also, aren't Jon and Dany the only two that can fully tame the dragons since all the other Targaryen's are dead? Seems to me they have 1 too many dragons right now...
There have been several clues but I think Tyrion isn't Tywin's son but the son of the Mad King.
Making Tyrion a Targaryen, possible heir to the throne and potential dragon rider.....if they go down that road with that theory.
I think those clues are coming from the books, no?
Z, never read the books. I'm mostly referencing the clue's from the TV show.
1) Tywin was the Mad King's hand but an incident caused him to leave that post and return to Casterly Rock....(Possibly the Mad King raping Tywin's wife and why Tywin was so eager to take revenge when his Lannister army sacked Kings Landing and why his forces were so brutal.)
2) There were several clues\quotes here to support that position from Tywin when he told Tyrion in season 4 on what selfless acts he did for the family "There was no way to prove you weren't my son"......then when Tyrion shot Tywin in season 4 finale "You're no son of mine!"
I think those two line help define the thoughts that Tywin had about Tyrion not being his actual son and the offspring of what the Mad King did to his wife.
3) Most telling to me, was when Tyrion unshackled the dragons. If I remember correctly, the two dragons that were locked away weren't eating and were violent against anyone who came near them. Tyrion then freed both and my guess is the dragon's sensed Targaryen blood and didn't harm Tyrion when he first approached them.
Also, speaking of dragon riding. Remember Tyrion's blueprint designs he gave to Bran, so he could still mount a horse? A few tweaks & maybe some warging...
Now that Jon was made King of the North, does that legitimize him as Ned's son and does his name automatically get changed to Jon Stark or will he still go by Jon Snow?
...and it's just one aspect of Tyrion's longstanding affinity for dragons. Like many things, this topic gets far more play in the books, but the show has touched on it a few times. Does that make him the proverbial "third head of the dragon"? Maybe, maybe not. My guess is yes. In any case, it appears the one known surviving Targ (Dany) is about to be united at Dragonstone (where else?) with the two characters most likely to be her secret kin: Tyrion and Jon.
Whether they can form a durable alliance is anyone's guess. The Episode 2 preview suggests that Jon's proposal to treat with Daenerys will be roughly as popular with his bannermen as his earlier decision to team up with the Wildlings. Then there's the problem of aligning objectives. The parties have a common enemy in King's Landing, but they are preparing for completely separate wars. And Jon has to make the case that the campaign for which Dany has prepared her whole life isn't really important. Or, as Davos puts it, "It doesn't matter which corpse sits the Iron Throne." That's not what Dany wants to hear from potential allies.
Speaking of Davos, he'll be an asset at Dragonstone, assuming he makes the trip. He knows the territory, albeit for tragic reasons. I bet he and Tyrion will eventually hit it off, although they might get off to a rocky start because, strictly speaking, Tyrion killed his sons. I wonder if that will come up, given the time constraints under which the show is now operating.
Now that Jon was made King of the North, does that legitimize him as Ned's son and does his name automatically get changed to Jon Stark or will he still go by Jon Snow?
As King, he could probably legitimize himself, but:
A) That would be out of character; and
B) He'd only have change it again when Bran shows up and shares his visions.
Fair enough but that an almost incredible leap on your own. You're talking about seconds in the whole series. Did they actually even say the Mad King raped Tywin's wife on the show? I get he said "You're no son of mine" but I think most viewers would assume he never loved him/he was an embarrassment to the Lannister name/ ect.
I haven't read the books either but a bunch of people have brought book spoilers to the table here that expand on your theory, much to my disappointment.
a lot of clues point to it, but if Tywin knew he wasn't his father then I think he would have killed him.
If I recall correctly, Tywin's wife/Tryion's mother died giving birth to Tyrion and Tywin already had resentment toward Tyrion for that, then the fact he was a dwarf served as a sense of embarrassment for Tywin too. Not to mention Tyrion's personality which embarrassed Tywin.
If he knew wasn't his father he would have killed him IMO.
so there's the possibility that Tywin just didn't know, which is legit, but if Tywin didn't know, who knows?
Just us fans? Tyrion certainly doesn't seem to hint that he has any indication, does he?
Fair enough but that an almost incredible leap on your own. You're talking about seconds in the whole series. Did they actually even say the Mad King raped Tywin's wife on the show? I get he said "You're no son of mine" but I think most viewers would assume he never loved him/he was an embarrassment to the Lannister name/ ect.
I haven't read the books either but a bunch of people have brought book spoilers to the table here that expand on your theory, much to my disappointment.
In the TV show, when it was mentioned Tywin Lannister was the Mad King's hand but had left that position and was replaced by Jon Arryn. That's when I started to try to figure out why the power hungry Tywin, who was consumed with his legacy, would leave such a prestigious role as "Hand of the King". It wasn't till season 4, when he told Tyrion "since I couldn't prove you weren't my son", when I (and many others) jumped to that conclusion.
The scene in season 5 with Tyrion freeing the dragons only confirmed it from my point of view.
RE: I go back and forth on Tyrion being Targaryan Â
a lot of clues point to it, but if Tywin knew he wasn't his father then I think he would have killed him.
If I recall correctly, Tywin's wife/Tryion's mother died giving birth to Tyrion and Tywin already had resentment toward Tyrion for that, then the fact he was a dwarf served as a sense of embarrassment for Tywin too. Not to mention Tyrion's personality which embarrassed Tywin.
If he knew wasn't his father he would have killed him IMO.
so there's the possibility that Tywin just didn't know, which is legit, but if Tywin didn't know, who knows?
Just us fans? Tyrion certainly doesn't seem to hint that he has any indication, does he?
I don't think Tywin 100% knew that as a fact or Tyrion would be dead. Did he have suspicions that it could be possible that Tyrion wasn't his son? Yes I think he did.
Which is why he almost threw Tyrion to his death when he was born, until he changed his mind. Plus a man that was so consumed with his legacy, would not want his pride and family image tarnished by admitting that Tyrion might not be a Lannister in the public eye.
I think that doubt was always in the back of Tywin's mind and why he treated Tyrion so poorly in comparison to his brother and sister.
In any series with so many characters and the need to bring the story to a close; there will be some bad writing, possibilities that go nowhere, the potential for the ending to be re written any number of ways ( like all the speculation about slight shifts changing the course of WW2 or the Civil War) and inconsistencies of character development.
Then on top of that, there is the storytellers desire to have a surprise ending. Then add Martins particular delight in flouting convention and fans
Same problems plagued Shakespeare and many a great writer. Consistency, tying up loose ends and ending a multi layered story will of its nature leave false trails and plot inconsistencies.
Supporting theories because otherwise they would be bad writing is going to be harder and harder to do as the series goes on.
Id claim that Martin and the current writers value entertainment and if that means bread crumbs to nowhere...then well so what?...after all more people are watching.
This is especially true as we venture past the books. I'm not sure Martin knows how to get from the widest expanse of his vision to the end state. I think he knew how to get to the A) the very wide expanse and I think he has B) a destination in mind. The toughest stretch of writing would be from A) to B).
The theories are a lot of fun but I suspect watching in an undemanding state is going to be a key to enjoying the rest of the trip
Some of the stuff people nit pick about can be argued anyway such as Dragonstone being abondoned in this thread.
I read an entire article about how a writer was appalled Euron built his Armada as fast as he did. Sure it's a stretch, but do we really want to see him building ships over months or years? He did say he wanted every man, woman, and child working on it. Who cares I say.
But pretty clearly he treated Tyrion poorly relative to Cercei and Jaime because Tyrion was an abomination to look at, way beyond even that he wasn't the golden beauty like the other two. The Lannister were perfect and Tyrion was the exact opposite. It's no spoiler, but in the books he's irrevocably hideous, not a handsome dwarf but a monster.
And that's before you even get to the fact that he killed the guy's wife.
In any series with so many characters and the need to bring the story to a close; there will be some bad writing, possibilities that go nowhere, the potential for the ending to be re written any number of ways ( like all the speculation about slight shifts changing the course of WW2 or the Civil War) and inconsistencies of character development.
Then on top of that, there is the storytellers desire to have a surprise ending. Then add Martins particular delight in flouting convention and fans
Same problems plagued Shakespeare and many a great writer. Consistency, tying up loose ends and ending a multi layered story will of its nature leave false trails and plot inconsistencies.
Supporting theories because otherwise they would be bad writing is going to be harder and harder to do as the series goes on.
Id claim that Martin and the current writers value entertainment and if that means bread crumbs to nowhere...then well so what?...after all more people are watching.
This is especially true as we venture past the books. I'm not sure Martin knows how to get from the widest expanse of his vision to the end state. I think he knew how to get to the A) the very wide expanse and I think he has B) a destination in mind. The toughest stretch of writing would be from A) to B).
The theories are a lot of fun but I suspect watching in an undemanding state is going to be a key to enjoying the rest of the trip
I worry about that too. There are potential for a few subplots to go nowhere.
-The true identity of the Lord of Light
-Debt to the Iron Bank
-House of Black and White's unfinished business with Arya
-Everyone in Essos who has had a run-in with Dany (Dario, the Warlocks, Quaith)
-Leadership of the Riverlands
I hope not, but there is a chance all of these subplots are forgotten or turn out to be red herrings.
RE: That may or may not be true wrt the Mad King and Tyrion Â
But pretty clearly he treated Tyrion poorly relative to Cercei and Jaime because Tyrion was an abomination to look at, way beyond even that he wasn't the golden beauty like the other two. The Lannister were perfect and Tyrion was the exact opposite. It's no spoiler, but in the books he's irrevocably hideous, not a handsome dwarf but a monster.
...whose monstrosity was doubled in A Clash of Kings by getting his head split open and his nose removed at Blackwater. The showrunners toned down his injuries drastically, leaving him with a cute little scar.
Some of those are so weak I actually hope they don't spend any time on it. Edmure likely takes over the Riverlands, right? Unfinished business with Arya from Bravos? She paid her debt with a face and was let go freely I thought? A God is supposed to reveal his true identity?
RE: there's a difference between suspecting Tyrion wasn't his Â
and being able to prove it and being known as a kinslayer would've destroyed Tywin's reputation.
Tywin was one of the savviest players in the game, if he wanted Tyrion dead I'm positive he could have had him killed and made sure it wasn't traced to him and he wouldn't have looked like a Kinslayer and even probably could have even garnered sympathy for losing a son.
Of course it's a fiction story and the writers write what they write and part of the story being so great is how we all have theories or hopes for the plot, but I definitely don't think that's a legit reason to suspect Tywin lived with a child he suspected was not his own and was a dwarf.
ep trailer) and remember the whole 'lone wolfs die the winter, the pack survives' and turn north to join her family. The faceless men are a little too deus ex machina to kill off as important a character as Cersei, and so much else in the series doesn't support that as an end. Arya's arc ends with her regaining her humanity in full and perhaps forgiving someone from the list?
As far as Littlefinger, if he feels squeezed out of Sansa's ear, who is presenting a unified front with Jon, I could see him flipping back to Cersei and the Lannisters. As far as I know she's still unaware he coordinated Joffrey's end and they're looking for allies of all kinds. Regardless of what he does, it seems his personal avarice is too great for him to see the forest for the trees and correctly identify the walkers as the truest threat. The poetic end of Littlefinger is death by white walkers after gaining an ultimately meaningless gain in the game of the 7 kingdoms.
I think Euron takes out the Sand Snakes - Tyrion's too important to die off this early in the story but this serves that purpose (demonstration of loyalty) and ties up a weaker subplot (Dorne).
As far as loose ends - the joke that Gendry is still rowing Â
covers a lot of them, but they've done yeoman's work to bring almost all of them back into the tale (Benjen last season for example) - some of the trailer sleuths who look at those frame by frame found some pretty interesting stuff which suggests some of these will get resolution.
Still.... you got the biggest clue (Tywin's wife was raped by the mad king) from somewhere else.
I think that's more of a clue than the dragons not eating him.
As I said before, I got that clue from the TV show. By that point in the series, I was trying to figure out why Tywin would leave his role as the Mad King's Hand. When he told Tyrion "since I could not prove your not my son" it clicked about the possibility of Tyrion having another father.
Plus if Tywin was the Mad King's Hand for 20 years, why would he order the Lannister army to sack the city during Robert's rebellion? Why would he order the Mountain to viciously kill any remaining Targaryen family members. Something must have caused Tywin to hold such a vile vendetta against the Mad King after serving as his hand for 20 years. I didn't buy the excuse used in the show that he was mainly upset with Jaime being named to the Kingsguard. Which only leads to something more personal happening with his wife.
Can't speak on when others put together that Mad King rape theory, I didn't get it the first time watching the show. Although right after season 4 ended, I binge watched the first four seasons with in 2-3 weeks and picked up on it then.
Everything you just said makes sense but why "rape" Â
covers a lot of them, but they've done yeoman's work to bring almost all of them back into the tale (Benjen last season for example) - some of the trailer sleuths who look at those frame by frame found some pretty interesting stuff which suggests some of these will get resolution.
Still waiting to meet Howland Reed.
Howland Reed is the only one who can definitively confirm Jon Snow's identity unless Bran does and not sure anyone is going to believe him on that at his word, and Meera still lives as we know, so maybe Meera meets her father and he tells the story to her and Bran - it would be cool to hear someone retell the battle at the Tower of Joy instead of just seeing Bran's vision.
I think that information has to come out somehow and the ways it can realistically come out are few.
Why couldn't the mad king just have slept with her? I think In the books it specifically says she was raped among other things. No biggie though.
Similar to the story of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen, majority of people believed that Rhaegar raped Lyanna. Although some like Littlefinger thought differently and Barristan Selmy spoke very highly of Rhaegar's character, led us to believe Rhaegar wouldn't do such a thing and that he must have loved Lyanna instead.
On the flip side, when the TV show gave us the clue that Tyrion might not be Tywin's son, either one of two things occured. Either Tyrion's mother fell in love with another man and got pregnant or she was raped and got pregnant.
I just leaped to the latter conclusion, as that would help explain why Tywin resigned as Hand of the King after 20 years and why he wanted vengeance against the Mad King during Robert's Rebellion.
The other theory I've seen is that he is who Euron will deliver to Cersei.
How would Euron know of Gendry's existence? It's possible I suppose, but this would bug me a little. It's as much of a leap as it is a twist.
My guess is the sand snakes or whatever they're called. I'm guessing that in order to significantly advance the plot, we need to get to the point pretty quickly where Cedsei and Euron are united. I would be surprised if Euron went to do his thing (off-screen, or very quickly covered) and returned in short order with three heads like olives on a toothpick.
or show that described it, so I apologize, if it's not show, but Tywin deeply loved Joanna, from all accounts it wasn't a typical arranged marriage of houses typical of the time.
and from all accounts the feelings were mutual I don't think it's realistic Joanna and the mad king fell in love and had an affair, I think rape is the logical conclusion if they ever even had sex.
or show that described it, so I apologize, if it's not show, but Tywin deeply loved Joanna, from all accounts it wasn't a typical arranged marriage of houses typical of the time.
and from all accounts the feelings were mutual I don't think it's realistic Joanna and the mad king fell in love and had an affair, I think rape is the logical conclusion if they ever even had sex.
Yeah. I don't think that is ever even close to mentioned in the TV series.
but the actor who plays Euron said in an interview that his character goes above and beyond Ramsay Bolton this season as a villain. Perhaps he was just hyping the show or getting carried away, but I can't even fathom the shit he'd have to do to compete with Ramsay.
And I'm not going to be specific for those that don't know... couldn't Euron's present be an "item" that was a big deal in the books? (Again, didn't read it myself so can't confirm)
That Tywin resigned as Hand of the King because the Mad King assigned Jaime to the Kingsguard. I just don't buy that as the reason to leave a highly powerful and influential role as the Hand.
If Tywin still stayed on as the Hand, he could have eventually (possibly) influenced the Mad King to release Jaime from his Kingsguard duties. Something like with Tywin being the wealthiest person in that kingdom, if the King needed to borrow some funds, Tywin as the Hand could have given a donation to release Jaime from the Kingsguard on a royal pardon or something.
By Tywin resigning as the Hand, something else must have occurred. Especially with his reason's for later joining Robert's Rebellion and sacking Kings Landing and giving orders to the Mountain and the Lannister army to act so viciously against the remaining Targaryen's.
Some of those are so weak I actually hope they don't spend any time on it. Edmure likely takes over the Riverlands, right? Unfinished business with Arya from Bravos? She paid her debt with a face and was let go freely I thought? A God is supposed to reveal his true identity?
But who is the reincarnated Lord of Light? Melisandre thought it was Stannis then Jon Snow. Thoros thinks its Beric Donderion. The Red priests and priestess in Essos think its Dany. Im saying the "red god" could just end up being a red herring.
Also I will be upset if Jaqen is done with Arya. There must be a reason he let her go. I hope we find out why before the show is over.
Admittedly I threw in the Riverlands and Warlock/Dario to fill in my list a bit. But the Iron Bank is another big subplot I am afraid they will drop.
that the two of them would meet again (the episode where Melisandre takes Gendry from the Brotherhood). I wonder where that meeting is taking place? The trailers placed Melisandre at Dragonstone, which could make for a warm and fuzzy reunion with Jon and Davos.
why Gendry is more important than Edric? and if Edric isn't in the shows then just ignore this or let me know he's not in the shows.
Never read the books and seen the TV series from start to finish (as of season 6) about 5 times now. Never heard the name Edric before.
Although curious, I did a quick google search and saw the TV writers merged Edric's storyline to Gendry's. So they are basically the same person Edric for book readers and Gendry for TV viewers.
Only real difference I read about the two, that Edric since his mother was a noble, was raised with privilege and since Gendry's mother worked in a brothel, he was an unknown bastard.
Outside of those two very different upbringing, they have similar storylines with how they were used by Stannis and Melisandre.
Some of those are so weak I actually hope they don't spend any time on it. Edmure likely takes over the Riverlands, right? Unfinished business with Arya from Bravos? She paid her debt with a face and was let go freely I thought? A God is supposed to reveal his true identity?
But who is the reincarnated Lord of Light? Melisandre thought it was Stannis then Jon Snow. Thoros thinks its Beric Donderion. The Red priests and priestess in Essos think its Dany. Im saying the "red god" could just end up being a red herring.
Also I will be upset if Jaqen is done with Arya. There must be a reason he let her go. I hope we find out why before the show is over.
Admittedly I threw in the Riverlands and Warlock/Dario to fill in my list a bit. But the Iron Bank is another big subplot I am afraid they will drop.
I think it's pretty clear they are leaning towards Jon being "the one" or whatever you want to call it and Melisandre misinterpreted the signs at first with Stannis. She already brought him back from the dead. I think we find out why Beric keeps getting brought back also... Most likely it's because they all have a "role to play in the Great War to come" . I think they've flat out said that actually. Im not sure the God himself needs to be reincarnated.
Jaqen had an affinity for Arya. He saw her grow as a person and finally take ownership of who she was. He wanted her to stay but understood her reasoning. When she finally said "I am Arya Stark of Winterfell" he smiled like he was happy for her. He said a debt must be paid and a face was due and she put a face on the wall. That was one of the best moments of that rather weak storyline IMO. I see no reason why Jaqen needs to come back for her.
What's the deal with the Iron Bank? I know its in debt. Is this really something we want to waste precious minutes on?
but the actor who plays Euron said in an interview that his character goes above and beyond Ramsay Bolton this season as a villain. Perhaps he was just hyping the show or getting carried away, but I can't even fathom the shit he'd have to do to compete with Ramsay.
You would have to imagine a huge "fan favorite" death IMO. What else could it be?
can and should play a massive role moving forward. The Lannisters owe them millions and if not paid the Iron Bank will back and fund their enemy. And with Stannis now dead the deal they made with him they have also lost out on. Them sitting by the wayside makes no sense, they have to broker a deal with someone to try and recoup their losses.
can and should play a massive role moving forward. The Lannisters owe them millions and if not paid the Iron Bank will back and fund their enemy. And with Stannis now dead the deal they made with him they have also lost out on. Them sitting by the wayside makes no sense, they have to broker a deal with someone to try and recoup their losses.
that gets Littlefinger back in the game. He's the one that got the Lannisters in debt in the first place, and is the only one of the remaining players (other than Davos) that has any experience with them. He's also backed by a prominent house/army.
can and should play a massive role moving forward. The Lannisters owe them millions and if not paid the Iron Bank will back and fund their enemy. And with Stannis now dead the deal they made with him they have also lost out on. Them sitting by the wayside makes no sense, they have to broker a deal with someone to try and recoup their losses.
Yeah Tyrion too, though I can't remember if he had direct dealings with them but it's certainly possible that he can scratch up money from Dani to start paying them back.
Book readers: Do you think Euron's gift on the show Â
can and should play a massive role moving forward. The Lannisters owe them millions and if not paid the Iron Bank will back and fund their enemy. And with Stannis now dead the deal they made with him they have also lost out on. Them sitting by the wayside makes no sense, they have to broker a deal with someone to try and recoup their losses.
Again. This seems like a book "thang". Yeah, they briefly touch on this in Season 1 but it hasn't been a focus of the television series at all. Who's to say there's even going to be any Lannisters left at the end of this? Their focus right now is staying alive. They are surrounded by enemies trying to kill them and if they some how miraculously survive all that (keep in mind these enemies are emotionally driven not financially) they have to still fight in the great war to come. If they start putting precedent on their debts over everything else that's going on right now I think it would actually be pretty annoying. At least in terms of the show and the amount of time they've spent with it. Books I couldn't answer for.
From a show only perspective they make sure that the Iron Bank is a lurking power player. Stannis and Davos sailed the narrow sea to Bravos just to broker a deal
with them. There were numerous mentions in Kings Landing beyond season 1. I could be wrong but wasn't there a scene where one of their reps came out to meet Stannis in the North?
It has more to do with the bank being a surprise ally Â
Do they even have time to spend on yet another faction? I thought this season was about finally having all the players on the main stage and wrapping it up.
RE: I thought this was the final season split into two parts. Â
Do they even have time to spend on yet another faction? I thought this season was about finally having all the players on the main stage and wrapping it up.
Yeah same. It just seems like one of those things that might have had one or two clips in the show over 6 seasons that nobody really thinks about or cares about without the context from the books. They did mention it in the show though so maybe it does come up.
I could be wrong but wasn't there a scene where one of their reps came out to meet Stannis in the North?
You might be thinking of the books. Because yes they come to meet Stannis at the Wall in the books, but wind up doing a deal and taking a liking to Jon Snow. Which I don't think is an accident. I don't know if they will come into play again in the show, short of some kind of wrap up. I'm almost positive they will in the books. But I don't think it a coincidence in the books they come away liking Jon Snow.
based on the show. The Iron Bank is owed a massive amount from the Lannisters (season 1 with Littlefinger and then again for the Red Wedding) and also met with Stannis and Davos. They haven't gotten a return on any of these investments.
There doesn't need to be much time spent on it. A representative sent and discussing payment options, new terms, or a threat. And it could be a big tie in to something we don't see coming (as I've alluded to, many here think there's only a couple things happening or going to be happening and that doesn't seem like the show's MO).
Or maybe nothing comes of it. But it's 100% from the show, clear as day.
based on the show. The Iron Bank is owed a massive amount from the Lannisters (season 1 with Littlefinger and then again for the Red Wedding) and also met with Stannis and Davos. They haven't gotten a return on any of these investments.
There doesn't need to be much time spent on it. A representative sent and discussing payment options, new terms, or a threat. And it could be a big tie in to something we don't see coming (as I've alluded to, many here think there's only a couple things happening or going to be happening and that doesn't seem like the show's MO).
Or maybe nothing comes of it. But it's 100% from the show, clear as day.
In the show, the Iron Bank has been a shadow over the throne since season 1 since Ned found out about the debt.
In season 3 Tyrion discovers Baelish has been borrowing more than he reported. from the bank. In season 4 Tywin and Olena talk about how the bank should be feared, plus Stannis gets funding for his Northern expedition. In season 5 Mace Tyrell goes to Brovos to speak with them.
It could all be a red herring, but the show keeps reminding us they are powerful and owed $$ from Kingslanding
Assuming the Iron Bank plot line hasn't simply been dropped... Â
...we can probably assume the bankers will act like bankers. Even with the end of the world looming, the key question for the moneymen in Braavos will be: which of several bad options is most likely to maximize their recovery (or minimize the damage) from bad assets in Westeros. Their investment in Stannis is a total loss. So, do they go all-in with Cersei in the hope of salvaging the huge Baratheon/Lannister loans, or write off those debts too and hope a better credit ascends the Throne after the Queen sinks?
BTW, I think the Lannisters are currently the only combatants heavily dependent on mercenaries - sorry, George, sellswords. The Unsullied and Dothraki worship their Mhysa/Khaleesi. Jon commands respect and and genuine affection among his Northern bannerman and Wildling allies. The knights of the Vale are a wild card in terms of loyalty and commitment, but their motivation isn't exactly pay-for-play. The Dornish and Ironmen seem happy to follow their assorted commanders, just for the opportunity to fight and f*ck. Meanwhile, as we saw in Arya's last scene, most of Jaime's army just wants to go home. It's not clear how Cersei is even paying/feeding those guys at this point, with Olenna doubtless blocking food shipments from the Reach and the Iron Bank's position unknown.
In season 1, Ned is shocked to learn that the Iron Throne is 6 million Gold Dragons in debt. Half owed to the Lannisters and half to the Iron Bank (not mentioned in the show at the time).
Around season 4, Tywin tell Cersi, that after the Royal Wedding (which the Tyrell's paid half of the cost), War of the 5 Kings and other war time spending. That the Iron Throne drastically added to their debts to the Iron Bank to astronomical levels. Plus on top of all that, the gold in the Westerland gold mines had run dry 3 years ago.
In season 5, after Tywin's death, the Iron Bank recalls the Iron Throne to pay back a tenth of the debt they own. Although Mace Tyrell as the new Master of Coin tells the small council that they only have half that amount .... basically they just have 1/20 of the amount owned. Mace offered to loan the crown funds to help keep the Bank from escalating affairs but Cersi declines that offer and instead sends Mace to Braavos to negotiate a new deal with the Bank.
So let's say at this time, the Iron Thorne is in debt roughly around 8 million Gold Dragons with no way to repay them. If Mace Tyrell was correct, they only have 1/20 that amount left in reserves, so roughly just around 400,000 Gold Dragons.
Then add to that the money that Stannis borrowed, now to say that the Iron Bank now has roughly 10 million Gold Dragons invested in whoever will be sitting on the Iron Throne......with no way to regain those loans with Stannis dead and the Lannister gold mines run dry.
You would expect, on the TV Series, that the Iron Bank would eventually live up to their slogan "the Iron Bank will have its due". I'd be disappointed if we don't see any more of the Iron Bank, even if it's just another scene or two, in the remaining 12 episodes.
Speaking of Arya's last scene with the Lannister soldiers... Â
...I think what we saw there was the start of the showrunners restoring her humanity. There was still a glimmer - that's why she spared Walder's wife. The scene in the Riverlands was a step toward nurturing that glimmer. I agree that meeting Nymeria will help reconnect her with the little girl from Season One and direct her - emotionally if not geographically - toward reconnecting with her siblings (or half-sibling/cousin, in Jon's case).
I'm not sure Arya makes it to the end of the story; but I do expect the show-runners to at least reunite her with Sansa and Jon before the Long Night descends.
Reestablish the relationship Jon and Arya have for the audience. They did great with it in season 1. Now that everything seems to be coming around full circle I hope they remind the audience of just how close these two people are.
Bran knows that when the Night King touched him in his vision and left a mark on Bran's arm, that negated the magic protecting the Three Eyed Ravens home.
Knowing this, does Bran know if he enters the Wall, that will also negate the Wall's magic in preventing the Night King from crossing the Wall or possibly bringing it down?
If he does, tough decision to make whether to cross the Wall or not. He'd for certain would have died if he didn't cross the Wall. Although by crossing, he possibly doomed everyone south of the Wall, with Winterfell first in the Night Kings sights.
Reestablish the relationship Jon and Arya have for the audience. They did great with it in season 1. Now that everything seems to be coming around full circle I hope they remind the audience of just how close these two people are.
Agreed. I think that will happen, and I also think we'll see a reconciliation between Arya and Sansa, whose relationship in Season One was mostly mutual contempt. Meeting up with Nymeria would advance the Arya-Sansa story in a couple of ways. For one thing, the events that separated Arya and her direwolf were the same ones that made the estrangement between the sisters pretty much irreparable. And thematically, reassembling the wolfpack, as Winter falls, is a pretty big deal for the Starks. If anything in the Riverlands can convince Arya that there's more to life than revenge, it's this face.
A whole heck of a lot more about the debt than me. Nice breakdown. I definitely won't mind if it comes back into play... my meaning all along was that I just hope they don't spend a lot of time on it. There's just not that much time left and I'd hate to spend a bunch of time watching them figuring out how to pay back money. Boring...
A whole heck of a lot more about the debt than me. Nice breakdown. I definitely won't mind if it comes back into play... my meaning all along was that I just hope they don't spend a lot of time on it. There's just not that much time left and I'd hate to spend a bunch of time watching them figuring out how to pay back money. Boring...
I think it's more likely to play out (if it even does) by the bankers from Braavosi throwing their support (money for sellswords, ships, etc) behind one side rather than having long meetings/discussions about how to pay off the debt.
A whole heck of a lot more about the debt than me. Nice breakdown. I definitely won't mind if it comes back into play... my meaning all along was that I just hope they don't spend a lot of time on it. There's just not that much time left and I'd hate to spend a bunch of time watching them figuring out how to pay back money. Boring...
I don't think they will spend that much time on it, I'm just expecting a few scenes over the next 12 episodes to show EXACTLY why you don't mess with the Iron Bank.
If the Iron Bank can't collect from either Tywin or Stannis, since they are both dead, I wonder if they would hold accountable the middle men that helped broker those bad debts. I can see the Iron Bank make an example of either Littlefinger (brokering deals for the Lannister's and Iron Throne) or Davos (brokering deal for Stannis).
Might help explain if Jaqen H'ghar makes another appearance in Westeros, as the Iron Bank might pay the Faceless Men to make an example of the people who were responsible for those bad debt.
A whole heck of a lot more about the debt than me. Nice breakdown. I definitely won't mind if it comes back into play... my meaning all along was that I just hope they don't spend a lot of time on it. There's just not that much time left and I'd hate to spend a bunch of time watching them figuring out how to pay back money. Boring...
I don't think they will spend that much time on it, I'm just expecting a few scenes over the next 12 episodes to show EXACTLY why you don't mess with the Iron Bank.
If the Iron Bank can't collect from either Tywin or Stannis, since they are both dead, I wonder if they would hold accountable the middle men that helped broker those bad debts. I can see the Iron Bank make an example of either Littlefinger (brokering deals for the Lannister's and Iron Throne) or Davos (brokering deal for Stannis).
Might help explain if Jaqen H'ghar makes another appearance in Westeros, as the Iron Bank might pay the Faceless Men to make an example of the people who were responsible for those bad debt.
That's what I was thinking. Its really only going to need a few scenes, and that's something that can easily be fit in an episode.
The latest batch of photos suggest Arya might be going to Riverrun. Â
The link seems to show her riding up to the Inn of the Kneeling Man. That happens to be Hot Pie's last known place of employment, so Nymeria might not be the only old friend Arya encounters this week. The inn is also on the River Road, not the King's Road, which puts Arya on a path to her mother's home, rather than the Capitol. Not sure what would steer her in that direction, or even what the status of Riverrun might be, with every Frey of consequence rotting at the Twins. I would expect it to still be garrisoned by Lannister/Frey soldiers, no?
Maybe I'm mixing up the books and the show, and that's actually the Inn at the Crossroads (a landmark on the way to King's Laning). Or maybe the photo means nothing, and the showrunners just re-used an old set from Season Three.
The link seems to show her riding up to the Inn of the Kneeling Man. That happens to be Hot Pie's last known place of employment, so Nymeria might not be the only old friend Arya encounters this week. The inn is also on the River Road, not the King's Road, which puts Arya on a path to her mother's home, rather than the Capitol. Not sure what would steer her in that direction, or even what the status of Riverrun might be, with every Frey of consequence rotting at the Twins. I would expect it to still be garrisoned by Lannister/Frey soldiers, no?
Maybe I'm mixing up the books and the show, and that's actually the Inn at the Crossroads (a landmark on the way to King's Laning). Or maybe the photo means nothing, and the showrunners just re-used an old set from Season Three. Arya at the Inn of the Kneeling Man... or Not. - ( New Window )
Was Edmure being held at Riverrun or the Twins?
I forget how much Arya knows about her family's whereabouts. She knows Jon is alive in the north in some capacity. Does she know Sansa is out of King's Landing? Did she hear about Bran and Rickon before she left for Bravos? If she's in the dark about all of the above, then uncle Edmure might be her best strategy.
to care about Jon or Sansa, or even Bran. Presuming that a few years have gone, it feels that although she's still consumed by the wanting for vengeance there isn't much sense of loneliness I get from her. If there's ever even going to be one, I think Arya at this point would be indifferent to a Stark family reunion.
to care about Jon or Sansa, or even Bran. Presuming that a few years have gone, it feels that although she's still consumed by the wanting for vengeance there isn't much sense of loneliness I get from her. If there's ever even going to be one, I think Arya at this point would be indifferent to a Stark family reunion.
I disagree. She would love a reunion. I don't think she's "gone" at all...
RE: The latest batch of photos suggest Arya might be going to Riverrun. Â
The link seems to show her riding up to the Inn of the Kneeling Man. That happens to be Hot Pie's last known place of employment, so Nymeria might not be the only old friend Arya encounters this week. The inn is also on the River Road, not the King's Road, which puts Arya on a path to her mother's home, rather than the Capitol. Not sure what would steer her in that direction, or even what the status of Riverrun might be, with every Frey of consequence rotting at the Twins. I would expect it to still be garrisoned by Lannister/Frey soldiers, no?
Maybe I'm mixing up the books and the show, and that's actually the Inn at the Crossroads (a landmark on the way to King's Laning). Or maybe the photo means nothing, and the showrunners just re-used an old set from Season Three. Arya at the Inn of the Kneeling Man... or Not. - ( New Window )
I could be wrong, but I think the Crossroads Inn is the only one shown on the show (aside from whatever Inn the Hound and Arya killed Polliver & Co.). Crossroads is the only inn I've heard of as non book-reader. Plus, right after Brienne & Pod came accross Hot Pie they had to decide on going North or East to the Erie, which would indicate Hot Pie was at Crossroads.
Anyway you seem to be right about Arya at the Inn, in that screenshot. The door looks just like the one from when she said her goodbyes to Hot Pie. Maybe they just reused a set or location, but I doubt it.
The link seems to show her riding up to the Inn of the Kneeling Man. That happens to be Hot Pie's last known place of employment, so Nymeria might not be the only old friend Arya encounters this week. The inn is also on the River Road, not the King's Road, which puts Arya on a path to her mother's home, rather than the Capitol. Not sure what would steer her in that direction, or even what the status of Riverrun might be, with every Frey of consequence rotting at the Twins. I would expect it to still be garrisoned by Lannister/Frey soldiers, no?
Maybe I'm mixing up the books and the show, and that's actually the Inn at the Crossroads (a landmark on the way to King's Laning). Or maybe the photo means nothing, and the showrunners just re-used an old set from Season Three. Arya at the Inn of the Kneeling Man... or Not. - ( New Window )
I could be wrong, but I think the Crossroads Inn is the only one shown on the show (aside from whatever Inn the Hound and Arya killed Polliver & Co.). Crossroads is the only inn I've heard of as non book-reader. Plus, right after Brienne & Pod came accross Hot Pie they had to decide on going North or East to the Erie, which would indicate Hot Pie was at Crossroads.
Anyway you seem to be right about Arya at the Inn, in that screenshot. The door looks just like the one from when she said her goodbyes to Hot Pie. Maybe they just reused a set or location, but I doubt it.
It could lead to a big moment for Arya this week. If she does come across Hot Pie and/or Nymeria at the Crossroads Inn, maybe she will get home sick, or learn of Jon and Sansa, and decide to turn North instead of South to Kings Landing.
RE: RE: Wow. Just read that Kit Harrington is 5'8 Â
Some of those are so weak I actually hope they don't spend any time on it. Edmure likely takes over the Riverlands, right? Unfinished business with Arya from Bravos? She paid her debt with a face and was let go freely I thought? A God is supposed to reveal his true identity?
But who is the reincarnated Lord of Light? Melisandre thought it was Stannis then Jon Snow. Thoros thinks its Beric Donderion. The Red priests and priestess in Essos think its Dany. Im saying the "red god" could just end up being a red herring.
Also I will be upset if Jaqen is done with Arya. There must be a reason he let her go. I hope we find out why before the show is over.
Admittedly I threw in the Riverlands and Warlock/Dario to fill in my list a bit. But the Iron Bank is another big subplot I am afraid they will drop.
Perhaps they'll have to fight multi-front wars, with the Iron Bank introduced as a wild card/spoiler.
RE: RE: I believe Euron will use something in his possesion Â
I think most people think that.
Jaime and Bron will be the first army that goes against Daeneys and they will lose. I think she spares his life for the sake of Tyrion (Jaime spared/helped save his life).
Jon learns who he is and he forms the first army to go against the White Walkers.
Im curious to see if Littlefinger can turn Sansa and how that plays out. Bran and Arya look to be joining everyone in Winter Fell shortly.
Yeah there was a lot of foreshadowing there. I think she desires being the queen. In a weird way it's what she wanted since she was a child although I think nobody ever expected her to get there by this route and betraying her family.
There's no books to lose interest in. If the next ever comes out I'll be picking it up the day it comes out. The pace of the books is how the show was, and what it still should be, IMO.
Looking forward to tonight, crossing my fingers that the wait is worth it.
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I was an avid book reader. Read them all as soon as they came out and in a matter of days. I've been really pissed at times over the sloth and slow pace of Martin. But with the way the show has moved on beyond the series, I really couldn't care less if he finishes the next or any of the remaining books. To heck with him.
There's no books to lose interest in. If the next ever comes out I'll be picking it up the day it comes out. The pace of the books is how the show was, and what it still should be, IMO.
Looking forward to tonight, crossing my fingers that the wait is worth it.
Let's be honest. You are going to hate the episode. The episode could get 10/10 on every review site on the planet, everyone on BBI could be rejoicing in tears and you will complain about the pacing.... ;)
Even still, I've said countless times it's still one of the best shows made, but I'm allowed to think there are areas to improve on. They've completely thrown away several promising stories for the path of least resistance and to increase shock value. It's exactly what Breaking Bad did which I also had a problem with.
In any case, here's to the end of a long wait, looking forward to tuning in early to set the tone before 9.
At least here we have 15 episodes left stretched out over an excruciatingly long period of time, but similar feeling for me, yet still I'm looking forward to it.
no idea what possible book spoilers people are so concerned with when it's been so long since the books had relevance, and yet people are posting reddit theories all over the thread, but I never understood the book reader vs non-read divide on here, and never participated in those battle so apologies in advance if that stirs up any shit. no my intent.
Enjoy the show everyone.
As for spoilers, people here brought up the whole Catherin thing many times in non-book spoiler threads.
That's the kind of thing I had in mind when I said what I did. Maybe it doesn't yet come into play. Maybe it does.
People were talking about that shit for years here and yes... it's annoying.
I think there is more to the story there. Did humans really build the wall? It's positively massive and all ice. Doesn't seem likely. Maybe the walkers built it to keep humans out?
Derp.
Derp.
You should be, we are saving all of our money for battle of the bastards 2
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amped up for another season of UConn and Z fighting over pacing.
Derp.
You should be, we are saving all of our money for battle of the bastards 2
Hahaha
Yes. Obvious. The trailer shows her there.
Holy shit dude, get over yourself, you are such an insecure narcissist. I wasn't even talking about you.
another poster suggested Jamie would kill Cersei. I haven't seen a trailer show that - did I miss it?, but I have read several reddit theories on the topic, some purported to come from show runners or translators, one of them says Jamie will kill Cersei.
not suggesting it's a spoiler, since others believe it will be Jon Snow or Tyrion due to the "little brother theory", but I didn't even mean you, much to your chagrin.
so you can keep your LOL's to yourself
Out of respect to other posters, I won't let you make another thread about you. have a good night.
Jamie would seem to be doomed too. Though we'll see. I'd love for him to finally be able to break away from the hold of Cersei and live his life. I'm a fan of the kingslayer
Jamie would seem to be doomed too. Though we'll see. I'd love for him to finally be able to break away from the hold of Cersei and live his life. I'm a fan of the kingslayer
Yeah. This too. I forgot about the prophecy. If it's true, and I imagine it would be since everything else has come true, she only has two ways she can die. Tyrion or Jaime.
Either way, I cannot wait to see how it plays out.
Sticking with Cersei for a minute, without her kids I think she completely loses it. Her kids were the one thing that kept her somewhat grounded. She might go full psycho now.
The latest preview shows a fleet of ships docking at Kings Landing. It could be Theon and his sister but I doubt it. It's going to be Euron IMO.
While it's super corny, I look forward to GoT and Walking Dead (which I hate now) because I watch both shows with 2 of my neighbors. The 3 of us get together, I bring the beer and/or scotch, they bring the wine and food. Tonight will be beer, Bourbon, wine, meat + cheese board. It's a great way to end the weekend.
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I'm going to have the Bend the Knee golden ale brewed with honey.
While it's super corny, I look forward to GoT and Walking Dead (which I hate now) because I watch both shows with 2 of my neighbors. The 3 of us get together, I bring the beer and/or scotch, they bring the wine and food. Tonight will be beer, Bourbon, wine, meat + cheese board. It's a great way to end the weekend.
Not corny at all. Sounds like a good time. And the other guys need the booze to deal with your bitching. :)
Yup me too. With some time to reflect, Battle of the Bastards and Winds of Winter have to be two of the best episodes of TV ever filmed. They are feature film quality directing, acting, visual effects, music, everything. Rewatched some of the best episodes of earlier seasons recently too like Hardhome, some amazing productions.
Which in the end is why the last two seasons have been cut shorter. As the showrunners have talked about in interviews, continuing to produce episodes like that mean they're essentially filming movies. We all want more GOT, but I can understand their plan.
Battle scene from s6e9 was the best I've seen including any movie.
Season 6 finale is great -- music, plot, and the emotion from Jon being supported as king of the north is awesome.
We are not getting two short seasons. We are getting one last super season split in half.
We are not getting two short seasons. We are getting one last super season split in half.
You've likely ready more about it that me, but isn't it true HBO actually wanted more episodes, but the writers insisted on cutting it down?
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The writers have said their original intentions all along were to do 7 seasons for 7 books. They have reiterated this a number of times in interviews.
We are not getting two short seasons. We are getting one last super season split in half.
You've likely ready more about it that me, but isn't it true HBO actually wanted more episodes, but the writers insisted on cutting it down?
I dont know. There was a lot of rumors and BS being thrown around for a while. Some people were saying HBO was running out of money which is laughable IMO. Considering HBO is planning out three separate prequels after the series is done that clearly isn't the case. As to the writers cutting it short? Seems unlikely. They've said their original intention was 7 seasons so considering they ended up doing more it seems like an extension if anything.
Showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss tell EW that seven is probably the magic number.
“It feels like this is the midpoint for us,” Benioff says. “If we’re going to go seven seasons, which is the plan, season 4 is right down the middle, the pivot point.”
The seven season goal-line has been floated in the media before, but the writer-producers of the acclaimed fantasy hit series says they’re firmer than before that three more seasons sounds about right.
“I would say it’s the goal we’ve had from the beginning,” Benioff says. “It was our unstated goal, because to start on a show and say your goal is seven seasons is the height of lunacy. Once we got to the point where we felt like we’re going to be able to tell this tale to its conclusion, that became [an even clearer] goal. Seven gods, seven kingdoms, seven seasons. It feels right to us.”
Link - ( New Window )
Would kind of be lame to call it season 8 with only 6 episodes although I'm sure people will call it "8" either way.
From Weis:
“Things are moving faster because in the world of these characters the war that they’ve been waiting for is upon them,” showrunner Dan Weiss explains. “The conflicts that have been building the past six years are upon them and those facts give them a sense of urgency that makes [the characters] move faster.”
Agrees Jon Snow actor Kit Harington: “This season is really different than any other season because it’s accelerating toward the end, a lot of stuff collides and happens much much quicker than you’re used to seeing on Thrones … it’s so different than what everybody is used to. It’s quite exciting.”
A few questions came up for me on the rewatch:
1. Mormont (of the Night Watch) indicated to Jon that he knew Craster was giving up his boys to the White Walkers. But, he also seemed to not know the walkers / wights were around.
Was that just a story-telling error?
2. If the wall repels the undead, why is there any concern that the walkers will ever come south? Did Bran really ever need to go north of the wall to find the Raven?
A few questions came up for me on the rewatch:
1. Mormont (of the Night Watch) indicated to Jon that he knew Craster was giving up his boys to the White Walkers. But, he also seemed to not know the walkers / wights were around.
Was that just a story-telling error?
2. If the wall repels the undead, why is there any concern that the walkers will ever come south? Did Bran really ever need to go north of the wall to find the Raven?
1. Probably one of those things where it was out of sight out of mind. Morning was dealing with dwindling numbers and a threat of widlings, the white walkers likely didn't seem real enough.
2. They say the horn can take the wall down but the wall is also weak if it isn't fortified by men. With many of he castles unmanned it seems like the wall is super vulnerable. They also have Giants now as well.
Yes, Dragonstone. That was where Stannis was first planning his attacks, same table, etc.
I'd imagine he and Daenerys are more prominently featured next week.
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was Dany at the end of the show? Dragonstone Island or whatever?
Yes, Dragonstone. That was where Stannis was first planning his attacks, same table, etc.
Cool, thanks. I thought it looked familiar.
Still very well done and if this season goes the way I think it will, it was likely necessary. Arya finishing off all the Freys was awesome.
Looks like she is about to meet up with Nymeria again based on the preview.
Definitely was right on Euron. I wonder what the present will be. A Stark's head? Arya? Yikes.
Really???? Wow, we see things differently. I friggin loved it. Great opening, setting the table for all the fronts.
huh? Stannis and all his men are dead.
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Was pretty boring. Hopefully next week is better
Really???? Wow, we see things differently. I friggin loved it. Great opening, setting the table for all the fronts.
Im a fanboy but once that Sam montage hit it was pretty bad imo. Arya scenes were the best part.
It must have been very emotional to finally return home to the place she grew up after being gone for so long.
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huh? Stannis and all his men are dead.
I realize the writers wanted to make it easy for Dany, but Stannis would never just leave Dragonstone unoccupied.
And if he did, why didn't the Lannisters go take it?
Jon Snow and Sansa going at it in front of everyone - with littlefinger watching. Who is right - I think Jon is right to try and unite the north but it's a fine line
Why spend so much time with the Hound and a family he robbed? Is that father/daughter going to be white walkers next episode and kill him?
I assume that was Jorah that reached out to Sam at the end?
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huh? Stannis and all his men are dead.
He's saying Stannis would not have left for the North with no one protecting his only remaining stronghold. If he is successful in the North and someone just walks into Dragonstone he has to now go and take it back by force
I assume that was Jorah that reached out to Sam at the end?
Yes, that was Jorah.
The Hound's story just definitely took a weird turn.
2.) Why didn't Cersei claim it? Why would she? She has a skeleton crew that's barely able to defend Kings Landing right now and she is surrounded by enemies everywhere.
Love the Hound and the Brotherhood teaming up. And Euron stole the episode with his scene with Cersei and Jamie. I'm here with a thousand ships...and two hands. Lol. Looks like he's going to be great as the new awful bad guy to replace Ramsay.
Overall the episode set the chessboard up quickly, about what was expected.
Also don't feel this was slow at all. Sure it was a setup episode, but it's the fn opener. They took the fallout from the last few episodes and neatly lined everything into place in one hour, typically this took half the season.
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In comment 13529680 RicFlair said:
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huh? Stannis and all his men are dead.
He's saying Stannis would not have left for the North with no one protecting his only remaining stronghold. If he is successful in the North and someone just walks into Dragonstone he has to now go and take it back by force
Maybe we were watching different television shows. Stannis needed every single soldier imaginable to come with him. Dragonstone is a massive place. He would have had to leave behind hundreds of soldiers to defend that place. Seems absolutely pointless. Stannis wanted to rule the Iron Throne. He was either going to take it and live there or die trying.
Also don't feel this was slow at all. Sure it was a setup episode, but it's the fn opener. They took the fallout from the last few episodes and neatly lined everything into place in one hour, typically this took half the season.
Who's going to squat there with no food and water? What specific group would want to be there? Everyone remaining has there own castles and territories.
I can think of another place that's likely deserted too. Herrenhal or however its pronounced. The place Tywin took over temporarily and setup camp.
And Stannis didn't want it. He took being awarded Dragonstone as a personal insult. It's why he and Robert didn't speak.
lol. Ok. Wow. Let' just agree to disagree. Stannis barely had an army left at the end. It was pathetic. But he was supposed to send half of them back to some far off castle to keep for strategic purposes? And yeah Robert gave it to him after he seized it and took it from the Targaryans. Big whoop. I doubt Stannis had any attachment to the place.
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How were there no squatters? For such a valuable piece of property and strategic launching point, makes zero sense that it would just be empty. I'll just chalk this up ti a writing oversight.
Also don't feel this was slow at all. Sure it was a setup episode, but it's the fn opener. They took the fallout from the last few episodes and neatly lined everything into place in one hour, typically this took half the season.
Who's going to squat there with no food and water? What specific group would want to be there? Everyone remaining has there own castles and territories.
I can think of another place that's likely deserted too. Herrenhal or however its pronounced. The place Tywin took over temporarily and setup camp.
It's the perfect launching point for a military campaign on kings landing, so first and foremost, the incumbents would do everything to secure it.
Do you think the US would just abandon Hawaii or Puerto Rico if they were limited in resources? Of course not. Even if they were that stupid, an enemy would occupy it for the obvious reasons. Even if the enemy were that stupid, an ally would for negotiating leverage. A loose analogy but it still holds. Just lazy.
I really enjoy the show, so I'm not going to dwell on it, but definitely an oversight by the writers.
You could hear Jon speaking Ned Stark's words and Sansa speaking with Cersei's voice.
Sansa had a good point. Jon needs to be smarter than Ned or Robb.
And Stannis didn't want it. He took being awarded Dragonstone as a personal insult. It's why he and Robert didn't speak.
This.
It's a show about zombies and dragons.
They've all known Daenerys is coming...but the other houses have been so busy fighting amongst themselves that none of them have been in a position to consolidate power and consider how best to defend Westeros against the coming Targaryen invasion
If anything, maybe the part of Stannis's army that deserted outside Winterfell would have gone back there, but why would they be motivated to defend it having abandoned Stannis's cause already?
That too. Stannis hoped John would join him but he really just bought into being "the one" so much that he didn't really care about the numbers. Ultimately, it lead him to his doom.
I am still curious if he's alive somehow. They never actually showed Brianne kill him which was odd for this show.
Ok. Well I hear your point and I dont agree at all. It is 1000% logical for it to be abandoned in my opinion. And Dragonstone and Kings Landing are not on top of each other. It's no closer to Kings Landing than Riverrun or Storms End.
2.) Why didn't Cersei claim it? Why would she? She has a skeleton crew that's barely able to defend Kings Landing right now and she is surrounded by enemies everywhere.
Pretty much this. Stannis suffered a brutal defeat when he unsuccessfully tried to take King's Landing. When he went north he needed every able bodied fighter bc of the potential wildling threat and the Bolton's. Besides, what would leaving some bullshit crew at Dragonstone accomplish? Who would they be able to hold off?
Same issue with Cersei's army. They have legitimate threats in every direction -- it's all hands on deck to protect King's Landing. Why waste bodies at Dragonstone?
Regardless, very minor issue to bitch about. Best case it's a gratuitous blood bath where the holders get massacred by her army.
Enjoyed the episode. Planted the seeds for some conflict between Jon and Sansa. With Bran at the wall now, I wonder if what he knows gets to Baelish who uses it to create a situation in the North.
it was not a staging point (or at least that wasn't the intent).
Before Stannis captured dragonstone Daenerys and Viserys were "smuggled" to bravos.
Any emotion Daenerys felt from returning isn't because of the place she grew up in, she was probably 3 or 4 when she went to bravos, at least IMO.
at least that's how I remember it.
It's probably abandoned because #1 Stannis army is gone and if there was anyone there they probably fond a way to bolt when they see all the unsullied, dothraki, and dragons approaching.
same here.
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when he mentioned his gift for Cersei.
same here.
I would think Euron's "gift" would still be on a ship.
Who did we not see enter Dragonstone ?
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It's only a mark because the show is typically a lot smarter, so I hold it to a higher standard. I would just expect one of the players in the story to see the miliatary importance of an empty fucking island right outside the capital. I didn't go to West Point, but kinda common sense.
Ok. Well I hear your point and I dont agree at all. It is 1000% logical for it to be abandoned in my opinion. And Dragonstone and Kings Landing are not on top of each other. It's no closer to Kings Landing than Riverrun or Storms End.
That's fair. It's a legit gripe, doesn't really deserve the lol treadment. There's only 12 episodes so it's possible they had to cut a few corners to fast track the narrative.
Like I said, I enjoy the show and will continue to enjoy it. I like to lose myself in a story, so after asking why the hell Ed Sheeran was in Westeros, I didn't need to be questioning that.
possible. I'm just not sure how much a 3 or 4 year old remembers of their home that age.
She was definitely emotional, I think it was more all the shit she's been through to finally reclaim the land she was forced from or that he quest is starting to become real.
I don't think Euron can sail to the Riverlands
Loved the opening, such perfect revenge, especially with them eliminating Lady Stoneheart in the show, pretty much closed up the Frey payback storyline.
Deep down I want to say Sansa trusts Jon, and will do the right thing and not be blinded by her own personal agenda for vengeance and what not. But Littlefinger is bad news around her, and leaves me overly cautious.
Can't wait till Bran and Jon finally meet again. Looking forward to that big time.
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She wouldn't be emotional to return to the home of all her ancestors? Her parents? Disagree.
possible. I'm just not sure how much a 3 or 4 year old remembers of their home that age.
She was definitely emotional, I think it was more all the shit she's been through to finally reclaim the land she was forced from or that he quest is starting to become real.
Didn't her brother talk about Dragonstone in season 1? Also, the only book I read (Book 1) she has flashbacks of leaving there as a child doesn't she? I know I said no book spoilers but I dont think that would be one.
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He has dragons and two armies by his side. Impossible. Sadly I think it's going to be Arya's head. She is heading to Kings Landing to kill Cersei. We know from the prophesy it wont happen. Euron stops her and wins Cersei's trust IMO.
I don't think Euron can sail to the Riverlands
Why would he have to sail to the Riverlands? Arya said she was on her way to Kings Landing?
Tryion, Sansa, Jon Snow, any remaining Tyrell's Euron made a comment about how she should try killing her bother.
maybe foreshadowing.
more I think about it Samwell Tarly could be the one to save westeros.
He's going to tell Jon via Raven that he needs to get to dragonstone to get the dragon glass and there jon and daenerys will meet and from their maybe form an alliance or some agreement.
This was the clear implication in my mind.
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In comment 13529755 ZGiants98 said:
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She wouldn't be emotional to return to the home of all her ancestors? Her parents? Disagree.
possible. I'm just not sure how much a 3 or 4 year old remembers of their home that age.
She was definitely emotional, I think it was more all the shit she's been through to finally reclaim the land she was forced from or that he quest is starting to become real.
Didn't her brother talk about Dragonstone in season 1? Also, the only book I read (Book 1) she has flashbacks of leaving there as a child doesn't she? I know I said no book spoilers but I dont think that would be one.
It's not a big deal, I just don't think someone who lived somewhere until 3 or 4 (and it wasn't even 3 or 4 years since she fled Kings' Landing to go there) qualifies as "place she grew up" I think she spent more time in Bravos than Dragonstone.
again, not a big deal, agree she was emotional and probably a lot of reasons.
Would you keep coming to work if your weren't being paid?
Also. Arya is also an enemy clearly. If Cersei finds out she is responsible for killing all the Freys, their last remaining ally, she will absolutely want her dead.
The whole prospect of her going there has me feeling uneasy. If the prophecy is correct, Arya will fail.
By all indications he was referring to Tyrion, they exhausted conversation over him killing off members of his family and he suggesting she do it more. He also knows how much she despises Tyrion.
I don't think Arya makes it back to KL, I think something else may come along and change her plans. I have to revisit who is still alive on her list,obviously Jamie and Cersei, but there are others she needs to work her way up through first.
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He has dragons and two armies by his side. Impossible. Sadly I think it's going to be Arya's head. She is heading to Kings Landing to kill Cersei. We know from the prophesy it wont happen. Euron stops her and wins Cersei's trust IMO.
I don't think Euron can sail to the Riverlands
In the World of Ice and Fire--the history of Westeros coffee-table book that I was nerdy enough to read--the Iron Islanders do sail into the Riverlands. In fact, until Aegon came, the Riverlands were usually ruled by the Baratheons, Iron Islanders, or (I think) Lannisters. The Riverlands didn't become "self-ruled" until the Tullys threw their lot in with the Targaryens. That said, I don't know why Euron would have any reason to go there.
As to Dragonstone, it was a small fishing village. The native islanders didn't put up a fight when Aegon came, they didn't put up a fight when the Baratheons took over, and it makes no sense for them to put up a fight now. There was no reason for Stannis to leave soldiers there--his ancestral home is Storm's End and Dragonstone is not that valuable a piece of real estate other than as a launching point into King's Landing (which he no longer had the ships to do). And as others have said, the Lannisters didn't have the army to protect King's Landing.
Cersei and Jamie haven't been of the same mind on anything for a long time. And now Cersei has emotionally detached herself from their kids, and that will push Jamie further away. If Cersei loses Jamie, she's got nothing -- other than FrankenMountain.
Would you keep coming to work if your weren't being paid?
Maybe the North? If they're too busy I'd figure the Tyrell's would devote some of their unlimited resources or the ladies of dorne would occupy it as well. Hell, the people of the Iron islands would look to occupy it for leverage into marrying into the crown. I mean the place doesn't even exist in reality and I wanted to grab it as a rental property. We're talking about common sense here. I've already written it off as an oversight or narrative necessity given how much time and budget we have left, but it can't be explained away like this.
By the time Stannis leaves Dragonstone in season 4, he has to hire ships just to leave. The reason why the Greyjoy fleets are so critical right now is because navies aren't really a thing on this side of the world. Just about everything in the seven kingdoms is done over land.
Just guessing, but I wonder if Euron could go after Olenna...and in doing so hope to somehow force Highgarden to support the Lannisters again...with the supplies Jamie and Cersei were talking about. That would sure win Cersei over
I agree it's doubtful it's Tyrion or Arya, only bc I doubt their storylines would go that way
That seems plausible the way you thought it out. I just dont know how he's going to get to Tyrion. Dont forget Theon and Yara are with Daenys too and would spot him immediately. Seems like a huge stretch.
I think that would cheapen the prophecy. I mean it's a prophecy. It's not like the prophecy itself would be tricked by Arya. It's all knowing...
She left him behind in the last episode. Told Tyrion she had no feelings about it either.
Yeah I always listen for those dialogue clues - like last season when Dario told Dany, "You're a conqueror, not a ruler." Made me think it will be Jon at the end, ruling whatever and whoever remains.
Believe me, Arya didn't blow her cover and even if she did, no one is buying that she alone was capable of killing a whole mess hall full of Freys in their own home.
Believe me, Arya didn't blow her cover and even if she did, no one is buying that she alone was capable of killing a whole mess hall full of Freys in their own home.
I dont know. She left a witness to describe who she was and yelled the Stark Quote. Once the girl says it was a Stark with short brown hair and not long red hair it kind of narrows down the choices. I think people in Westeros know of the "faceless men and their assassin abilities". Why would it be a stretch for Arya, who has been gone a long time, to have learned from one? Especially if the girl literally saw her rip a face off her head of Walder Frey. Yeah it sounds crazy... but we are operating in a world of magic, dragons, and zombies.
That's one of my favorite parts. It adds a sense of realism. Not only do they physically change over the seasons, they have grown as actors IMO which relates to them growing as people in this world and "evolving".
Not a big issue, but it doesn't seem like a big stretch to me.
Petyr Baelish (Joffrey)
Ellaria Sand (Myrcella)
Cersei Lannister (Tommen)
Cersei doesn't even know about the first two. She still blames Tyrion and Sansa. But she sure know about the Sands. Ellaria and the Snakes would make a nice gift too - with the added bonus for the show-runners that the audience doesn't like them any better than Cersei does. Tyrion, by contrast, might be GoT's most beloved character. Killing him would be Ned Stark x 2.
The Freys don't really have any friends, not even the Lannisters cared much for them. I don't see the Lannisters exhausting resources trying to find and capture Arya given they can barely hold KL at the moment.
The Freys don't really have any friends, not even the Lannisters cared much for them. I don't see the Lannisters exhausting resources trying to find and capture Arya given they can barely hold KL at the moment.
Yup. I remember that girl too. I agree they wouldn't waste resources trying to find Arya but if Arya is on her way there anyway and Euron intercepts her and kills her... Cersei will definitely be grateful. Also Jaime, made a point to say the Freys were one of their last allies. Not saying its a huge conquest if she gets Arya but it would be a nice token possibly.
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No way does Cersei die so soon into this season. We would still have 10 more episodes left. I think the conclusion of that battle might take us to the season finale or even past.
Once Cersei is removed, all you have left are the White Walkers. They are not compelling actors to hold our attention for a whole season by themselves. Lol
I would be shocked to see Arya killed. I think she is someone who will make it to the end. Better find another head, not hers.
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Obviously something happens to change her course, and who knows what that may be. The only way that prophecy holds true with Arya doing the deed is if she's wearing Jaime or Tyrion's face. I feel like they'd be overplaying that hand a bit though.
I think that would cheapen the prophecy. I mean it's a prophecy. It's not like the prophecy itself would be tricked by Arya. It's all knowing...
It's a prophecy that is told/interpreted by a "seer". They could easily interpret a masked Arya as one of Cersei's brothers. Though I doubt it's Arya who kills her.
I don't think all the Starks can communicate with the wolves. They all share a deep bond, but Bran has the special powers to actually "become" a wolf/crow and see through their eyes. My guess is that once Arya reunites with Nymeria, Bran somehow senses it and gets her to change course to Winterfell.
Targaryens also historically marry within the family to keep the bloodline "pure". And the books at least hint at the bloodline being a reason for their bond with dragons. Seems likely that Jon leads a group to Dragonstone to get dragon glass, encounters Dany and the dragons and that the dragons somehow sense he's part Targaryen.
Overall solid episode, the world is condensing nicely and this was a good way to set up the pieces
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And there was another girl in the mess hall, an older one who witnesses everything and seemed to dissapear. They made it a point of showing her, perhaps your right. Arya may now have a target on her back, but when she can change her appearance and has been the master of deception and hiding/ getting away, I feel she will be just fine, at least for the time being.
The Freys don't really have any friends, not even the Lannisters cared much for them. I don't see the Lannisters exhausting resources trying to find and capture Arya given they can barely hold KL at the moment.
Yup. I remember that girl too. I agree they wouldn't waste resources trying to find Arya but if Arya is on her way there anyway and Euron intercepts her and kills her... Cersei will definitely be grateful. Also Jaime, made a point to say the Freys were one of their last allies. Not saying its a huge conquest if she gets Arya but it would be a nice token possibly.
How would Euron even know Arya is on her way to Kings Landing? He clearly had someone in mind when he made the offer and I'd be shocked if it was Arya. More likely (IMO) he's thinking one of these:
Tyrion (obvious choice)
Victarion
Asha
Sand snakes
Hound redemption tour.
What happened to the nephew who married the Fray girl?
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A song of Ice and Fire (Stark Ice- Fire Targayan). I could see them both ruling though. Maybe Jon takes over the north, even north of the wall... and Daenyrys rules Kings Landing and the 7 Kingdoms.
Targaryens also historically marry within the family to keep the bloodline "pure". And the books at least hint at the bloodline being a reason for their bond with dragons. Seems likely that Jon leads a group to Dragonstone to get dragon glass, encounters Dany and the dragons and that the dragons somehow sense he's part Targaryen.
Now keep in mind Daenerys is Jon's aunt. In GOT, brother/sister love is accepted...but aunt/nephew? Eeeeeewwww
Now keep in mind Daenerys is Jon's aunt. In GOT, brother/sister love is accepted...but aunt/nephew? Eeeeeewwww
True, but there are no brother/sister combos left so sacrifices must be made!
I don't think Arya will make it to KL, she will get diverted by something. I also don't think she will be Euron's gift. Its likely that gift comes from the sea and we know there will be a naval battle this season so my money is on that.
I think Sansa respects Jon, I don't see her betraying him but I guess its possible. I hope Littlefinger throws a wrench in that though, he's the only one that can stir up some shit right now in the north.
Jon going to Dragonstone seems unrealistic from a timing perspective. The dragonglass is key but there's got to be another way to get it north, from someone that already in the south.
The Hound is awesome, hopefully he can stay alive most of the season. Very interested to see where his crew ends up and how they fare.
At this point it seems pretty unrealisitc for anyone to back Cersei but its obviously going to happen. Her position shouldn't have any leverage at all and should be an easy defeat now that Dany landed close by, but something will come up.
I didn't think about it, but now that it was mentioned it makes sense for Euron gift to be one of the Dragons. He can take one down with that fleet I'd imagine. Viscerion is likely to go. Hope he takes many with him.
not saying it wouldn't still be a sort of incestuous relationship, but if you don't know about it....and a lot of plot would have to happen to believe that union is realistic, like after these 7 episodes and something with the Night's King causing the remaining Westeros forces to stop fighting each other and act in self preservation mode.
I think this is a 2018/2019 story line or whenever they finish season 7.
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Based on the three titles HBO has released for the first three episodes. If that's the case a whole lot needs to happen in episode 2. We shall see!
No way does Cersei die so soon into this season. We would still have 10 more episodes left. I think the conclusion of that battle might take us to the season finale or even past.
Once Cersei is removed, all you have left are the White Walkers. They are not compelling actors to hold our attention for a whole season by themselves. Lol
I think the 6 episodes next summer will be the Great War and conclusion. I think all the political stuff in Westeros will get tied up this season and I definitely think Cersei goes down this summer. That only leaves 6 episodes. Euron will also be another baddie and there will be other issues to clean up. We'll see.
Did he touch Sam? I couldn't tell if he made contact.
Sam will likely converse with Jorah and I'm sure he will tell him about Jorah's father and what happened to him. Jorah will feel more compelled than ever to help Jon out. It just makes the most sense at this stage.
I wonder what happened to Robin Arryn, I remember seeing him last season, and I know he loves Sansa, I hope Sansa is cunning enough to play him against Littlefinger if he should attempt to use the Vale against the North. Who knows though.
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In comment 13529808 beatrixkiddo said:
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And there was another girl in the mess hall, an older one who witnesses everything and seemed to dissapear. They made it a point of showing her, perhaps your right. Arya may now have a target on her back, but when she can change her appearance and has been the master of deception and hiding/ getting away, I feel she will be just fine, at least for the time being.
The Freys don't really have any friends, not even the Lannisters cared much for them. I don't see the Lannisters exhausting resources trying to find and capture Arya given they can barely hold KL at the moment.
Yup. I remember that girl too. I agree they wouldn't waste resources trying to find Arya but if Arya is on her way there anyway and Euron intercepts her and kills her... Cersei will definitely be grateful. Also Jaime, made a point to say the Freys were one of their last allies. Not saying its a huge conquest if she gets Arya but it would be a nice token possibly.
How would Euron even know Arya is on her way to Kings Landing? He clearly had someone in mind when he made the offer and I'd be shocked if it was Arya. More likely (IMO) he's thinking one of these:
Tyrion (obvious choice)
Victarion
Asha
Sand snakes
I don't know that he necessarily had somebody in mind. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. He seems a little crazy. He could have just been very confident that he would find something she'd like. As for Arya, maybe he is tipped off that she is on her way there. You have soldiers and multiple witnesses who have seen her and seen her intentions now. Not saying it's going to happen. Just throwing out a possible theory.
I can. "Entire season" is 6 episodes. I'd say you need at least 2 on each end for setup and conclusion. That leaves two episodes in the middle for the actual war. I'd be shocked if this summer doesn't end with Daenyrs and the entire Westeros army getting ready to clash with the White Walkers.
Sansa turning on Jon, at least temporarily, is being so heavily telegraphed at this point. Hopefully the show doesn't go in that direction. It'd be too predictable
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to fighting a war against an enemy that doesn't communicate. I'd much rather have two plot points going on to prevent that, with Jon and Co having to worry about the north and the south at the same time.
I can. "Entire season" is 6 episodes. I'd say you need at least 2 on each end for setup and conclusion. That leaves two episodes in the middle for the actual war. I'd be shocked if this summer doesn't end with Daenyrs and the entire Westeros army getting ready to clash with the White Walkers.
I should have rephrased. Having 6 episodes dedicated to a war against an enemy that doesn't speak doesn't strike me as the best way to run your finale season. There needs to be some other threat or problem going, IMO.
How does he get himself on the throne or see his path to the throne?
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In comment 13529898 UConn4523 said:
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to fighting a war against an enemy that doesn't communicate. I'd much rather have two plot points going on to prevent that, with Jon and Co having to worry about the north and the south at the same time.
I can. "Entire season" is 6 episodes. I'd say you need at least 2 on each end for setup and conclusion. That leaves two episodes in the middle for the actual war. I'd be shocked if this summer doesn't end with Daenyrs and the entire Westeros army getting ready to clash with the White Walkers.
I should have rephrased. Having 6 episodes dedicated to a war against an enemy that doesn't speak doesn't strike me as the best way to run your finale season. There needs to be some other threat or problem going, IMO.
Ok. Well I agree it's not going to be a 6 hour battle without talking. I think there is some back story with the Knight's King, ect they can explore. I'm not even convinced the White Walkers are bad.
Sam will likely converse with Jorah and I'm sure he will tell him about Jorah's father and what happened to him. Jorah will feel more compelled than ever to help Jon out. It just makes the most sense at this stage.
I wonder what happened to Robin Arryn, I remember seeing him last season, and I know he loves Sansa, I hope Sansa is cunning enough to play him against Littlefinger if he should attempt to use the Vale against the North. Who knows though.
Shireen was saved from further spread of Grayscale because she got it as a young child. The older the person is that gets it, the harder it is to stop. I am assuming hes locked up of his own free will. Dany told him to find a cure so he went to the place with the most knowledge in Westeros
Could be explained generally that word had spread, or could be Qyburn has spies watching Daenerys's armies. I don't imagine Daenerys and company sent ravens out announcing the news.
The only reason it registered with me was I was hoping for a scene where Cersei and Daenerys face off on a battlefield or in a political tet-a-tet, and we get to see Cersei's surprise when she discovers Tyrion's ascendancy
Could simply be a plot point the writers didn't see fit to expand on
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In comment 13529746 bceagle05 said:
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when he mentioned his gift for Cersei.
same here.
I would think Euron's "gift" would still be on a ship.
Who did we not see enter Dragonstone ?
Ellaria Sand , she poisoned the Queens only daughter.
Her head/death would have to read well with Cersei & Jamie Lannister
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In comment 13529751 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 13529746 bceagle05 said:
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when he mentioned his gift for Cersei.
same here.
I would think Euron's "gift" would still be on a ship.
Who did we not see enter Dragonstone ?
Ellaria Sand , she poisoned the Queens only daughter.
Her head/death would have to read well with Cersei & Jamie Lannister
Haven't rewatched, but I'm pretty sure we got another glimpse of the anticipated Yara/Ellaria lesbo sesh in the scenes from next episode. Could be a prelude to Ellaria's downfall
How does he get himself on the throne or see his path to the throne?
It needs to happen!
There has to be something coming out of left field, and my hope is it will be his doing. Everything looks like its going to wrap up a specific way, but it won't (or atleast it shouldn't).
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In comment 13529756 PEEJ said:
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In comment 13529751 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 13529746 bceagle05 said:
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when he mentioned his gift for Cersei.
same here.
I would think Euron's "gift" would still be on a ship.
Who did we not see enter Dragonstone ?
Ellaria Sand , she poisoned the Queens only daughter.
Her head/death would have to read well with Cersei & Jamie Lannister
Haven't rewatched, but I'm pretty sure we got another glimpse of the anticipated Yara/Ellaria lesbo sesh in the scenes from next episode. Could be a prelude to Ellaria's downfall
could see Bron involved in this encounter as well as he had a certain affinity with one of the sand snake women.
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end game.
How does he get himself on the throne or see his path to the throne?
It needs to happen!
There has to be something coming out of left field, and my hope is it will be his doing. Everything looks like its going to wrap up a specific way, but it won't (or atleast it shouldn't).
Yeah, in earlier seasons, season 1? lol it seemed like it was hard to expect what was happening (other than for book readers).
Ned's downfall surprised, heck Bran being shoved out the window in the first chapter (page?) shocked me, red wedding, Tywin, I think the show is due for a curve ball.
littlefinger and Cersei something like that.
I am 50/50 on Eurons gift being either a Dragon, or Tyrion. I'm leaning Dragon and here's why: Don't read this however, if you don't want to know what happened in the books!!!
* One thing that hasn't happened that did in the books was at the Kingsmoot. Euron appeared with an magical dragon horn (Dragonbinder I beleive it was called) from the ruins of Valyria that was said to be able to call dragons. It never came out in the Kingsmoot on the show, and makes perfect sense if they are to introduce it for him to use it to try and capture one of Dany's dragons. I suspect he will use it and take down one of the dragons, his gift will be the dragon dead or alive to Cersei (Most likely dead). Cersei will likely send the head back to Dany to try and intimidate her. Just my guess as no one but a Targaryen can truly tame a dragon.
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In comment 13529924 pjcas18 said:
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end game.
How does he get himself on the throne or see his path to the throne?
It needs to happen!
There has to be something coming out of left field, and my hope is it will be his doing. Everything looks like its going to wrap up a specific way, but it won't (or atleast it shouldn't).
Yeah, in earlier seasons, season 1? lol it seemed like it was hard to expect what was happening (other than for book readers).
Ned's downfall surprised, heck Bran being shoved out the window in the first chapter (page?) shocked me, red wedding, Tywin, I think the show is due for a curve ball.
littlefinger and Cersei something like that.
Yeah, something like that would be interesting. Littlefinger knows he can't trust the Starks longterm and if he doesn't already he will soon know he's being used. He also has no place anywhere near the throne of the Starks + Dany win.
The only problem with that episode was that it peaked in the first scene.
That Sam montage was annoying....and did the baby suddenly become a 2 year old?
The only problem with that episode was that it peaked in the first scene.
That Sam montage was annoying....and did the baby suddenly become a 2 year old?
Sorry -- meant to say the only problem besides the Sam montage
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In comment 13529898 UConn4523 said:
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to fighting a war against an enemy that doesn't communicate. I'd much rather have two plot points going on to prevent that, with Jon and Co having to worry about the north and the south at the same time.
I can. "Entire season" is 6 episodes. I'd say you need at least 2 on each end for setup and conclusion. That leaves two episodes in the middle for the actual war. I'd be shocked if this summer doesn't end with Daenyrs and the entire Westeros army getting ready to clash with the White Walkers.
I should have rephrased. Having 6 episodes dedicated to a war against an enemy that doesn't speak doesn't strike me as the best way to run your finale season. There needs to be some other threat or problem going, IMO.
Maybe the 'overseas' banks arrive with an armada to collect their debt?
Sansa turning on Jon, at least temporarily, is being so heavily telegraphed at this point. Hopefully the show doesn't go in that direction. It'd be too predictable
Maybe Bran arrives in Winterfell just in time to stop Sansa's scheming and convince her of the real threat the WW are (and to stick by family).
I'll take it.
I think that's what the Iron Fleet's role will be--deal her a significant blow at sea to her troops to make the battle with the Lannisters less pre-determined.
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end game.
How does he get himself on the throne or see his path to the throne?
It needs to happen!
There has to be something coming out of left field, and my hope is it will be his doing. Everything looks like its going to wrap up a specific way, but it won't (or atleast it shouldn't).
maybe reading way too much into it ... but he seemed quite in tune with Sansa / Jon Snow "arguing" over strategy
Gonna be interesting, Littlefinger is 1 of my favorite story lines
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it's gonna get wiped out somehow, or there wont be much intrigue.
I think that's what the Iron Fleet's role will be--deal her a significant blow at sea to her troops to make the battle with the Lannisters less pre-determined.
I'm feeling a Iron Fleet vs Dany battle about to happen as a huge storm rolls in, crushing 95% of the Boats
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In comment 13529684 ZGiants98 said:
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In comment 13529680 RicFlair said:
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.
huh? Stannis and all his men are dead.
He's saying Stannis would not have left for the North with no one protecting his only remaining stronghold. If he is successful in the North and someone just walks into Dragonstone he has to now go and take it back by force
Maybe we were watching different television shows.
Yeah, totally. They're obviously talking about Two Broke Girls.
Just Howland Reed and possibly Bran now right?
Tyrion doesn't know, Varys doesn't know, Littlefinger doesn't know, or do they?
We know there were only two people who survived Tower of Joy, Howland Reed and Ned, Ned never told anyone from what we know and Howland Reed was the other. He's still living, correct?
I ask because it could be a hint at plots to come, that secret has to be revealed and at some level is probably what connects Jon and Daenerys.
Regarding Sansa, while we concentrate on her respectful difference ( notice how easily they patched it up) with Jon, notice that she had nothing but contempt for Littlefinger ( and is clearly suspicious of is every utterance) but admires Jon ( just thinks his nobility has to get mixed with cunning).
I don't think any betrayal is going to last long. I think it more likely she makes a mistake that hurts Jon and learns or her cunning and hardness helps Jon be practical at a critical turning point ( an immoral act for a greater good).
Lastly, we all think Cersei is Jons arch rival in the end game and Dany and he will unite. Could be that Cersei is colorfully irrelevant and Danys desire to be the one last word royal is the final opposition to a new way to lead. Sansa's value as one who understands Machevelli may be to Jon in opposition to Dany.
Obviously, speculation. But Martin ( and it is roughly still his ending) does love to confound his followers
Just Howland Reed and possibly Bran now right?
Tyrion doesn't know, Varys doesn't know, Littlefinger doesn't know, or do they?
We know there were only two people who survived Tower of Joy, Howland Reed and Ned, Ned never told anyone from what we know and Howland Reed was the other. He's still living, correct?
I ask because it could be a hint at plots to come, that secret has to be revealed and at some level is probably what connects Jon and Daenerys.
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Jon Snow's true lineage?
Just Howland Reed and possibly Bran now right?
Tyrion doesn't know, Varys doesn't know, Littlefinger doesn't know, or do they?
We know there were only two people who survived Tower of Joy, Howland Reed and Ned, Ned never told anyone from what we know and Howland Reed was the other. He's still living, correct?
I ask because it could be a hint at plots to come, that secret has to be revealed and at some level is probably what connects Jon and Daenerys.
A simple DNA test would show it.
LOL, maybe they should just log in to ancestry.com
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In comment 13530125 pjcas18 said:
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Jon Snow's true lineage?
Just Howland Reed and possibly Bran now right?
Tyrion doesn't know, Varys doesn't know, Littlefinger doesn't know, or do they?
We know there were only two people who survived Tower of Joy, Howland Reed and Ned, Ned never told anyone from what we know and Howland Reed was the other. He's still living, correct?
I ask because it could be a hint at plots to come, that secret has to be revealed and at some level is probably what connects Jon and Daenerys.
A simple DNA test would show it.
LOL, maybe they should just log in to ancestry.com
They need the Iceland incest app
Link - ( New Window )
Just seems like the kind of thing he'd suspect
You're the one making remarks about how people who disagree with you must be watching a different show, and you're worried about accomplishments?
How is that a gift though?
I'd think it's more likely to be the Ellaria Sand and her Sand Sister daughters for killing Myrcella. Not sure how Gendry is much of an offering.
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I assume that was Jorah that reached out to Sam at the end?
Yes, that was Jorah.
The Hound's story just definitely took a weird turn.
The Hound and the Brotherhood are likely going to play a pretty crucial role soon encountering the white walkers. Got to set that up. I enjoyed those scenes and the call back to the man and his daughter
It's great that Martin (and co) can turn disliked characters into sympathetic characters so easily.
Jamie, Tyrion, the Hound, Varys, even Khal Drogo and the wildings to an extent and I'm sure others.
cersei has been the one constant (still living), if there was a way for Cersei to team up with the Night King and the white Walkers it would make things more convenient.
as it stands now, there will be battle among the 7 kingdoms before they can turn their attention to the others.
Who knows of Baelish's plot against Bran and Ned? I wonder if it is foiled to Jon or Arrya, that would spell the end of Littlefinger for sure.
It's great that Martin (and co) can turn disliked characters into sympathetic characters so easily.
Jamie, Tyrion, the Hound, Varys, even Khal Drogo and the wildings to an extent and I'm sure others
I never disliked either Tyrion or Varys. To me, it as always apparent that they didn't stand for what their more ruthless and corrupt peers did.
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It's great that Martin (and co) can turn disliked characters into sympathetic characters so easily.
Jamie, Tyrion, the Hound, Varys, even Khal Drogo and the wildings to an extent and I'm sure others
I never disliked either Tyrion or Varys. To me, it as always apparent that they didn't stand for what their more ruthless and corrupt peers did.
Tyrion is GRRM's favorite character in the books, he's said as much.
It'll probably be at least another episode before the pace starts to ramp up. It's not really character development so much as setting up the plot and storylines for the season, which is pretty par for the course with GoT.
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In comment 13530194 pjcas18 said:
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It's great that Martin (and co) can turn disliked characters into sympathetic characters so easily.
Jamie, Tyrion, the Hound, Varys, even Khal Drogo and the wildings to an extent and I'm sure others
I never disliked either Tyrion or Varys. To me, it as always apparent that they didn't stand for what their more ruthless and corrupt peers did.
Tyrion is GRRM's favorite character in the books, he's said as much.
I thought he said Littlefinger is his favorite character?
Anyway, I wanted to see the little man fly. Early in the story, when he was still understood to be squarely a Lannister I think he was disliked, at least in the books (by me).
I always found him funny and liked his appearances in the book and think he nailed it in the show, but I don't think I truly came around on Tyrion until Joffrey/Cersei forced him to marry Sansa.
Varys while not completely disliked really helped contribute to Nedd's death (even if inadvertently).
I'd consider clicking on the links I provided in this very thread. The intention was 7 seasons. They are giving us bonus episodes. Nothing was cut short.
Should be interesting to see who she gets to and who she finishes off.
Should be interesting to see who she gets to and who she finishes off.
Thanks. I was hoping somebody would post this. I was too lazy to look it up. Lol.
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and they decide to blow it with two final short seasons. Never been more frustrated by a series for what it failed to do.
I'd consider clicking on the links I provided in this very thread. The intention was 7 seasons. They are giving us bonus episodes. Nothing was cut short.
I won't get into it again because its tiresome at this point and no one's mind is changing, but like a football HC, I'm taking many interviews with a grain of salt. And what was once planned almost a decade ago is surely due to see some change after many different factors take shape.
If you consider them bonus episodes, great. IMO they should have either ended it in 2017 with a full season or add on atleast another full season but we are beyond that at this point.
Side note, apparently the actor that plays Ilyn Payne is cancer free (awesome news). I doubt he gets recasted but I guess its possible.
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In comment 13530366 RasputinPrime said:
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and they decide to blow it with two final short seasons. Never been more frustrated by a series for what it failed to do.
I'd consider clicking on the links I provided in this very thread. The intention was 7 seasons. They are giving us bonus episodes. Nothing was cut short.
I won't get into it again because its tiresome at this point and no one's mind is changing, but like a football HC, I'm taking many interviews with a grain of salt. And what was once planned almost a decade ago is surely due to see some change after many different factors take shape.
If you consider them bonus episodes, great. IMO they should have either ended it in 2017 with a full season or add on atleast another full season but we are beyond that at this point.
My response wasn't directed to you and I don't really get your point anyway. You're unhappy with the way they split it up? Cool beans. My point is, for years and years and even after Season 4, the writers flat out said they only wanted to 7 seasons. That was there intent. Sure HBO loves stringing one last super season an extra year (just like Breaking Bad did) but the viewers arent getting gypped. Aside from the annoying wait, it's a good thing IMO. We are getting more than we should have.
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A song of Ice and Fire (Stark Ice- Fire Targayan). I could see them both ruling though. Maybe Jon takes over the north, even north of the wall... and Daenyrys rules Kings Landing and the 7 Kingdoms.
Targaryens also historically marry within the family to keep the bloodline "pure". And the books at least hint at the bloodline being a reason for their bond with dragons. Seems likely that Jon leads a group to Dragonstone to get dragon glass, encounters Dany and the dragons and that the dragons somehow sense he's part Targaryen.
I really think Deanarys dies before ever ruling Westeros based on her vision at the house of the undying.
5'8" is even debated. That's what he measured at his pro day. He's probably 5'6" at the combine.
I don't feel like I'm getting fleeced when it comes to hours of content. I feel I am getting fleeced on the storytelling aspect. Once they decided to speed up time it should have just been fully condensed, ending this year. Or they should have left the speed as is and done 2 more full seasons. Maybe when it's all said and done it won't matter but it's a gripe that more people other than myself have.
If you have a gripe about them speeding it up and wishing this season was only 10 and done... well. Tis your right!
Lots of talk on this thread about Arya leaving survivors at the Twins, and basically announcing her identity like the villain in a superhero movie. I saw four or five serving girls, plus Walder's child bride. FWIW, I don't think they will be in any hurry to tell their story to the Lannisters. Those girls will probably be busy burying their dead and trying to survive, and with no army, they don't have much reason to expect sympathy or quarter from Queen Cersei. Besides, it's a long way from the Twins to Riverrun, which I think is the northern vertex of the Lannisters' current triangle of control: Lannisport/Casterly Rock in the west, King's Landing in the east, Riverrun in the north.
Writing Alys Karstark into the show was a nice easter egg for book readers.
A few things stuck out to me.
1. The Jon v Sansa argument seemed a bit sloppy to me. I don't mind the dissagreement, but I have a hard time believing Sansa would do that in front of the bannermen like that. She didn't just dissagree with Jon. She openly suggested the lords could and should feel betrayed by Jon for showing mercy to the Umbers and Karstarks, while everyone was there in the room.
2. It a bit of fun irony that a former Lord Commander of the Night's Watch has now ordered an army of Wildlings to guard The Wall.
3. Euron's ship is badass looking.
4. Anyone else catch the drawing of that dagger in the book Sam was reading? It sure looked like Littlefinger's Valerian steele knife that was used to frame Tyrion in the attempted assasination of Bran, back in season 1. I doubt that shot was accident. We may see that dagger again this season.
5. When Sam was asking "Professor Slughorn" for permission to use the restricted section of the library, I kept expecting him to say "Its strictly for academic purposes of course"
WTF dude? You were supposed to be the smartest person at The Wall. I think Stannis even said something like "I'll have some shipped here." I sure hope Sam didn't go through all this at the Citadel just to find out something he was told 2 seasons ago.
I agree on your 1st point, that Sansa/Jon exchange was weird. My problem was how aggressively she questioned him, but then pretty much made up and paid no mind to it in the next scene when she was recognizing his knack for leading.
A few things stuck out to me.
1. The Jon v Sansa argument seemed a bit sloppy to me. I don't mind the dissagreement, but I have a hard time believing Sansa would do that in front of the bannermen like that. She didn't just dissagree with Jon. She openly suggested the lords could and should feel betrayed by Jon for showing mercy to the Umbers and Karstarks, while everyone was there in the room.
2. It a bit of fun irony that a former Lord Commander of the Night's Watch has now ordered an army of Wildlings to guard The Wall.
3. Euron's ship is badass looking.
4. Anyone else catch the drawing of that dagger in the book Sam was reading? It sure looked like Littlefinger's Valerian steele knife that was used to frame Tyrion in the attempted assasination of Bran, back in season 1. I doubt that shot was accident. We may see that dagger again this season.
5. When Sam was asking "Professor Slughorn" for permission to use the restricted section of the library, I kept expecting him to say "Its strictly for academic purposes of course"
That's because Sansa sucks.
I agree on your 1st point, that Sansa/Jon exchange was weird. My problem was how aggressively she questioned him, but then pretty much made up and paid no mind to it in the next scene when she was recognizing his knack for leading.
That's why one of my favorite scenes of the series was when Sam admits to Jon he's been banging Gilly. He's been the guy who's been put down and bullied every step of the way, hope to see him rise above in the end
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There was alot to set up, now that the game changed a bit going into this season. After 6 season's of Danaerys and the White Walkers being distant and ingnored threats, they are both suddenly on everyone's minds.
A few things stuck out to me.
1. The Jon v Sansa argument seemed a bit sloppy to me. I don't mind the dissagreement, but I have a hard time believing Sansa would do that in front of the bannermen like that. She didn't just dissagree with Jon. She openly suggested the lords could and should feel betrayed by Jon for showing mercy to the Umbers and Karstarks, while everyone was there in the room.
2. It a bit of fun irony that a former Lord Commander of the Night's Watch has now ordered an army of Wildlings to guard The Wall.
3. Euron's ship is badass looking.
4. Anyone else catch the drawing of that dagger in the book Sam was reading? It sure looked like Littlefinger's Valerian steele knife that was used to frame Tyrion in the attempted assasination of Bran, back in season 1. I doubt that shot was accident. We may see that dagger again this season.
5. When Sam was asking "Professor Slughorn" for permission to use the restricted section of the library, I kept expecting him to say "Its strictly for academic purposes of course"
That's because Sansa sucks.
I thought the Jon v Sansa argument was intentionally written that way with Sansa purposely questioning his intentions in front of the other lords for his response.
It allowed Jon to communicate he's his "father's" son with honor and fairness, and allowed Sansa to introduce how that approach literally cost Ned and Robb their heads.
I'm not saying Sansa was that devious to think of it, but I'd guess the writers did it intentionally.
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In comment 13530880 Pete in 'Vliet said:
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There was alot to set up, now that the game changed a bit going into this season. After 6 season's of Danaerys and the White Walkers being distant and ingnored threats, they are both suddenly on everyone's minds.
A few things stuck out to me.
1. The Jon v Sansa argument seemed a bit sloppy to me. I don't mind the dissagreement, but I have a hard time believing Sansa would do that in front of the bannermen like that. She didn't just dissagree with Jon. She openly suggested the lords could and should feel betrayed by Jon for showing mercy to the Umbers and Karstarks, while everyone was there in the room.
2. It a bit of fun irony that a former Lord Commander of the Night's Watch has now ordered an army of Wildlings to guard The Wall.
3. Euron's ship is badass looking.
4. Anyone else catch the drawing of that dagger in the book Sam was reading? It sure looked like Littlefinger's Valerian steele knife that was used to frame Tyrion in the attempted assasination of Bran, back in season 1. I doubt that shot was accident. We may see that dagger again this season.
5. When Sam was asking "Professor Slughorn" for permission to use the restricted section of the library, I kept expecting him to say "Its strictly for academic purposes of course"
That's because Sansa sucks.
I thought the Jon v Sansa argument was intentionally written that way with Sansa purposely questioning his intentions in front of the other lords for his response.
It allowed Jon to communicate he's his "father's" son with honor and fairness, and allowed Sansa to introduce how that approach literally cost Ned and Robb their heads.
I'm not saying Sansa was that devious to think of it, but I'd guess the writers did it intentionally.
I hear you. I was a great contrast, with Jon wanting to do the "honorable thing", like Ned and Sansa thinking politically, like Cersie.
Its not the fact that she disagreed with him in publicly that bugged me. It was that she was basically hinting at mutiny, to all the lords sitting there, if Jon gave back the castles to the Umbers and Karstarks. She even got Lyana Mormont to raise an eyebrow at the thought.
Beric, Thoros, and The Hound have great chemistry together. You have the serious, determined leader; the drunken, partier zealot; and the brooding cynic. All you need is a tech-savy warrior (blacksmith Gendry??) and they are basically the Ninja Turtles.
The incident was already brought up a couple of times in the episode. Cersie mentions that after "the bloody mess with the Freys" they have no allies left. Also those Lannister soldiers, Arya sat with, were there because the Frey's were wiped out.
I bet more "rumors" about what happened there will start to make thier way to Winterfell and Kingslanding. It may lead to Cersie becoming increasingly paranoid. I doubt the show will never speak about it again.
Beric, Thoros, and The Hound have great chemistry together. You have the serious, determined leader; the drunken, partier zealot; and the brooding cynic. All you need is a tech-savy warrior (blacksmith Gendry??) and they are basically the Ninja Turtles.
Haha. I like this.
What do you think should come of it?
She ripped off her mask, revealed who she was, yelled the Stark phrase, and then told everyone to spread the news. Lol
It's just strange people think her identity will be hidden and nobody will ever find out she did anything IMO
She ripped off her mask, revealed who she was, yelled the Stark phrase, and then told everyone to spread the news. Lol
It's just strange people think her identity will be hidden and nobody will ever find out she did anything IMO
To be fair. I doubt any of the serving girls, or Walder's young wife knew who Arya was or that there even was another Stark girl besides Sansa.
Cersie and everyone else in Kingslanding has thought Arya dead for a while now. Cersie will most likley think it was Jon and Sansa that orchestrated the massacre, or maybe the Brotherhood Without Banners, but I doubt Arya would even be in Cersie's mind.
Jon and Sansa may be a different story. I hope there is a scene where they try to figure out who planned, since all of the Northern lords are with them in Winterfell.
She ripped off her mask, revealed who she was, yelled the Stark phrase, and then told everyone to spread the news. Lol
It's just strange people think her identity will be hidden and nobody will ever find out she did anything IMO
Nobody disputes that others will find out she's alive and that she murdered the Freys. They dispute that Euron will kill Arya as a gift to Cersei. Even if Cersei knows Arya is alive and responsible for the Freys' deaths, Arya is still probably relatively low on her wish list after:
Tyrion
Sand women
Sansa
probably some others I'm forgetting
Also, that's a lot of work to go through (the whole Arya arc) just for her to kill the Frey's before meeting her death. IMO, there's a bigger part for her to play in it all.
I'm not talking about Euron's gift at all right now. That's just one of 5-10 things it could be.
As for Wun Wun...logistically it couldn't possibly be him. But they did make it a point to zero in on the giants eyes, with the same one that Ramsay shot out missing. Misleading but I'm sure we can chalk it up to sloppy writing. Unless of course there's more to be revealed that we don't know about.
I'm not sure how it all works since she fled Bravos, but it seems she still has access to the Great Hall of Faces or whatever it's called and can assume the identity of any dead person.
she can be killed, of course she can, and at any time, but I see her more of the one who seeks vengeance for Jon's and/or Sansa's death and is the surviving Stark (maybe Bran too).
the biggest "issue" I had with the opener the more I think about it (and I realize it's fiction and a fantasy story) is that Arya killed Walder Frey the end of season 6. So how long had passed between the end of season 6 and the beginning of season 7 where she buried the body so no one knew, acted as Walder Frey in his face, and called another feast and set up the "red wedding revenge"?
As for Wun Wun...logistically it couldn't possibly be him. But they did make it a point to zero in on the giants eyes, with the same one that Ramsay shot out missing. Misleading but I'm sure we can chalk it up to sloppy writing. Unless of course there's more to be revealed that we don't know about.
If I had my way I'd rid the show of the dragons as soon as possible. Its a budget suck, they don't look all that great on screen and having them should be a fairly simple routing in an actual battle. I think the showrunners are married to them at this point but I hope atleast a couple of them die this season.
Out of about ten posts in a row I think I used "lol" once and it was an attempt to show that I thought it was funny. Apologies.
I also alluded to it earlier that I believe Euron will bring out the horn Dragonbinder and catch a Dragon or Two. That will be the gift and makes sense.
I'm not sure how it all works since she fled Bravos, but it seems she still has access to the Great Hall of Faces or whatever it's called and can assume the identity of any dead person.
she can be killed, of course she can, and at any time, but I see her more of the one who seeks vengeance for Jon's and/or Sansa's death and is the surviving Stark (maybe Bran too).
the biggest "issue" I had with the opener the more I think about it (and I realize it's fiction and a fantasy story) is that Arya killed Walder Frey the end of season 6. So how long had passed between the end of season 6 and the beginning of season 7 where she buried the body so no one knew, acted as Walder Frey in his face, and called another feast and set up the "red wedding revenge"?
I think the episode began essentially shortly after she killed Frey in the finale. Then the rest of the episode began after some more time had lapsed, word spread, and arya started making her way north. That's how it would make sense to me.
I'm not sure how it all works since she fled Bravos, but it seems she still has access to the Great Hall of Faces or whatever it's called and can assume the identity of any dead person.
she can be killed, of course she can, and at any time, but I see her more of the one who seeks vengeance for Jon's and/or Sansa's death and is the surviving Stark (maybe Bran too).
the biggest "issue" I had with the opener the more I think about it (and I realize it's fiction and a fantasy story) is that Arya killed Walder Frey the end of season 6. So how long had passed between the end of season 6 and the beginning of season 7 where she buried the body so no one knew, acted as Walder Frey in his face, and called another feast and set up the "red wedding revenge"?
I believe they say the two feasts (where she kills Walder and then the one where she is Walder) happened within a 'fortnight'.
I'm not sure how it all works since she fled Bravos, but it seems she still has access to the Great Hall of Faces or whatever it's called and can assume the identity of any dead person.
she can be killed, of course she can, and at any time, but I see her more of the one who seeks vengeance for Jon's and/or Sansa's death and is the surviving Stark (maybe Bran too).
the biggest "issue" I had with the opener the more I think about it (and I realize it's fiction and a fantasy story) is that Arya killed Walder Frey the end of season 6. So how long had passed between the end of season 6 and the beginning of season 7 where she buried the body so no one knew, acted as Walder Frey in his face, and called another feast and set up the "red wedding revenge"?
Wasn't it supposed to have been the same night? She said in her speech that everyone got to be called together twice in one day I thought. Might have to listen to it again but I assumed the real Frey was just laying in the back on the floor somewhere. I think time sped up a little after that scene because Jaime and Cersei had already heard in their next scene.
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makes it come off that every opposing opinion is a stupid one.
Out of about ten posts in a row I think I used "lol" once and it was an attempt to show that I thought it was funny. Apologies.
all good.
As for Wun Wun...logistically it couldn't possibly be him. But they did make it a point to zero in on the giants eyes, with the same one that Ramsay shot out missing. Misleading but I'm sure we can chalk it up to sloppy writing. Unless of course there's more to be revealed that we don't know about.
I can definitely see Euron capturing/killing one in the next 2-3 episodes.
Also, aren't Jon and Dany the only two that can fully tame the dragons since all the other Targaryen's are dead? Seems to me they have 1 too many dragons right now...
As for Wun Wun...logistically it couldn't possibly be him. But they did make it a point to zero in on the giants eyes, with the same one that Ramsay shot out missing. Misleading but I'm sure we can chalk it up to sloppy writing. Unless of course there's more to be revealed that we don't know about.
I think she'll probably lose one Dragon at some point before the "final battle." It would surprise me if she lost all three.
There has been some theorizing about the possibility of a Wight Dragon. Which would be pretty wild
We are assuming that marching army was still beyond the wall, but perhaps they were marching to Winterfell. I assume they would have burned Wun Wun and all the bodies, but who knows, perhaps the freefolk took him north to be buried.
We are assuming that marching army was still beyond the wall, but perhaps they were marching to Winterfell. I assume they would have burned Wun Wun and all the bodies, but who knows, perhaps the freefolk took him north to be buried.
Them bypassing the wall would be a huge plot point that they have to show, IMO. Not only that but they can't be past the wall yet unless the widlings that are now going to fortify the wall meet the wights in route.
While Arya might be stretching things when she (as Walder) attributes the Red Wedding to every now-adult male Frey of consequence, she draws the line at punishing the girls, who have absolutely no say in anything at the Twins. Aside from Walder's young wife, the girls serving the wine might not even be family members.
Would it be "smarter" to kill them? Not necessarily. Consider the mystique of the Faceless Men: just showing one of their coins to a Braavosi captain was enough to book Arya's passage across the Narrow Sea. Arya might be bringing a bit of that assassin swagger back to Westeros. For houses in the Riverlands wavering in their loyalty to the crown, knowing that a single young wolf just wiped out all the Frey sheep could be a pretty persuasive recruiting tool.
Arya is also a big part of the girl-power ethos that the show has embraced lately. There's an element of sisterhood/empowerment in her "liberating" the women of House Frey - probably the least "woke" house in Westeros.
Will sparing the girls wind up costing Arya in the end? I doubt it. There are too many reasons for the show to have made that choice, other than to set up her downfall. And Arya puts herself in danger all the time. If the showrunners plan to kill her, they don't need serving girls from House Frey to put the Lannister army on her trail. She just told a platoon of them that she's on her way to the capitol to kill the queen.
Ultimately, I think Arya is going to die. Throwing out that Euron intercepts her was just something I threw out as a means to make that happen. Realistically, I see her maybe going down in a ball of fury like Scarface and and maybe taking out the Mountain along the way. Who knows. Nobody knows much right now. We are all just throwing out guesses.
Maybe from a lately standpoint you mean Sansa's confidence or Lyanna Mormont or even Arya the assassin, but Martin always emphasized the strong women (and the things they'd make men do).
from Cersei, Catelyn/Lady Stoneheart, Oleanna, Melisandre, the Sand Snakes, Arya, Lysa, Daenerys, Brienne, Ygritte, even Sansa, Gilly, and Margaery, as well as Lyanna Mormont, etc.
Maybe from a lately standpoint you mean Sansa's confidence or Lyanna Mormont or even Arya the assassin, but Martin always emphasized the strong women (and the things they'd make men do).
from Cersei, Catelyn/Lady Stoneheart, Oleanna, Melisandre, the Sand Snakes, Arya, Lysa, Daenerys, Brienne, Ygritte, even Sansa, Gilly, and Margaery, as well as Lyanna Mormont, etc.
Yeah. Literally the whole world is ruled by women at the moment.
I feel the opposite about Yara. I think she is only around to die, forcing Theon's character to come full circle and take on the role of leader of the Iron Born and kill his uncle.
Excellent point about Arya's uncle Edmure. With all the Frey's taken out, that should now leave Edmure (who was married to one of Walter's daughters, as the only remaining heir to take over Riverrun.
Wouldn't Bran have the best claim? Not that he wants it.
There have been several clues but I think Tyrion isn't Tywin's son but the son of the Mad King.
Making Tyrion a Targaryen, possible heir to the throne and potential dragon rider.....if they go down that road with that theory.
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Claim if she wanted to push it. Daenerys, Olenna Tyrell, The Viper Girls, Cersei... Its almost ridulous when you think about it.
Wouldn't Bran have the best claim? Not that he wants it.
Yeah I guess. If people realized he was alive.
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Also, aren't Jon and Dany the only two that can fully tame the dragons since all the other Targaryen's are dead? Seems to me they have 1 too many dragons right now...
There have been several clues but I think Tyrion isn't Tywin's son but the son of the Mad King.
Making Tyrion a Targaryen, possible heir to the throne and potential dragon rider.....if they go down that road with that theory.
I think those clues are coming from the books, no?
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Claim if she wanted to push it. Daenerys, Olenna Tyrell, The Viper Girls, Cersei... Its almost ridulous when you think about it.
Wouldn't Bran have the best claim? Not that he wants it.
Except nobody knows he's alive.
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Too.
I feel the opposite about Yara. I think she is only around to die, forcing Theon's character to come full circle and take on the role of leader of the Iron Born and kill his uncle.
Yeah. I could see that too. Sure.
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giants#1 said:
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Also, aren't Jon and Dany the only two that can fully tame the dragons since all the other Targaryen's are dead? Seems to me they have 1 too many dragons right now...
There have been several clues but I think Tyrion isn't Tywin's son but the son of the Mad King.
Making Tyrion a Targaryen, possible heir to the throne and potential dragon rider.....if they go down that road with that theory.
I think those clues are coming from the books, no?
Z, never read the books. I'm mostly referencing the clue's from the TV show.
1) Tywin was the Mad King's hand but an incident caused him to leave that post and return to Casterly Rock....(Possibly the Mad King raping Tywin's wife and why Tywin was so eager to take revenge when his Lannister army sacked Kings Landing and why his forces were so brutal.)
2) There were several clues\quotes here to support that position from Tywin when he told Tyrion in season 4 on what selfless acts he did for the family "There was no way to prove you weren't my son"......then when Tyrion shot Tywin in season 4 finale "You're no son of mine!"
I think those two line help define the thoughts that Tywin had about Tyrion not being his actual son and the offspring of what the Mad King did to his wife.
3) Most telling to me, was when Tyrion unshackled the dragons. If I remember correctly, the two dragons that were locked away weren't eating and were violent against anyone who came near them. Tyrion then freed both and my guess is the dragon's sensed Targaryen blood and didn't harm Tyrion when he first approached them.
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In comment 13531208 NYG27 said:
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giants#1 said:
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Also, aren't Jon and Dany the only two that can fully tame the dragons since all the other Targaryen's are dead? Seems to me they have 1 too many dragons right now...
There have been several clues but I think Tyrion isn't Tywin's son but the son of the Mad King.
Making Tyrion a Targaryen, possible heir to the throne and potential dragon rider.....if they go down that road with that theory.
I think those clues are coming from the books, no?
Z, never read the books. I'm mostly referencing the clue's from the TV show.
1) Tywin was the Mad King's hand but an incident caused him to leave that post and return to Casterly Rock....(Possibly the Mad King raping Tywin's wife and why Tywin was so eager to take revenge when his Lannister army sacked Kings Landing and why his forces were so brutal.)
2) There were several clues\quotes here to support that position from Tywin when he told Tyrion in season 4 on what selfless acts he did for the family "There was no way to prove you weren't my son"......then when Tyrion shot Tywin in season 4 finale "You're no son of mine!"
I think those two line help define the thoughts that Tywin had about Tyrion not being his actual son and the offspring of what the Mad King did to his wife.
3) Most telling to me, was when Tyrion unshackled the dragons. If I remember correctly, the two dragons that were locked away weren't eating and were violent against anyone who came near them. Tyrion then freed both and my guess is the dragon's sensed Targaryen blood and didn't harm Tyrion when he first approached them.
Also, speaking of dragon riding. Remember Tyrion's blueprint designs he gave to Bran, so he could still mount a horse? A few tweaks & maybe some warging...
Whether they can form a durable alliance is anyone's guess. The Episode 2 preview suggests that Jon's proposal to treat with Daenerys will be roughly as popular with his bannermen as his earlier decision to team up with the Wildlings. Then there's the problem of aligning objectives. The parties have a common enemy in King's Landing, but they are preparing for completely separate wars. And Jon has to make the case that the campaign for which Dany has prepared her whole life isn't really important. Or, as Davos puts it, "It doesn't matter which corpse sits the Iron Throne." That's not what Dany wants to hear from potential allies.
Speaking of Davos, he'll be an asset at Dragonstone, assuming he makes the trip. He knows the territory, albeit for tragic reasons. I bet he and Tyrion will eventually hit it off, although they might get off to a rocky start because, strictly speaking, Tyrion killed his sons. I wonder if that will come up, given the time constraints under which the show is now operating.
A) That would be out of character; and
B) He'd only have change it again when Bran shows up and shares his visions.
I haven't read the books either but a bunch of people have brought book spoilers to the table here that expand on your theory, much to my disappointment.
If I recall correctly, Tywin's wife/Tryion's mother died giving birth to Tyrion and Tywin already had resentment toward Tyrion for that, then the fact he was a dwarf served as a sense of embarrassment for Tywin too. Not to mention Tyrion's personality which embarrassed Tywin.
If he knew wasn't his father he would have killed him IMO.
so there's the possibility that Tywin just didn't know, which is legit, but if Tywin didn't know, who knows?
Just us fans? Tyrion certainly doesn't seem to hint that he has any indication, does he?
I haven't read the books either but a bunch of people have brought book spoilers to the table here that expand on your theory, much to my disappointment.
In the TV show, when it was mentioned Tywin Lannister was the Mad King's hand but had left that position and was replaced by Jon Arryn. That's when I started to try to figure out why the power hungry Tywin, who was consumed with his legacy, would leave such a prestigious role as "Hand of the King". It wasn't till season 4, when he told Tyrion "since I couldn't prove you weren't my son", when I (and many others) jumped to that conclusion.
The scene in season 5 with Tyrion freeing the dragons only confirmed it from my point of view.
If I recall correctly, Tywin's wife/Tryion's mother died giving birth to Tyrion and Tywin already had resentment toward Tyrion for that, then the fact he was a dwarf served as a sense of embarrassment for Tywin too. Not to mention Tyrion's personality which embarrassed Tywin.
If he knew wasn't his father he would have killed him IMO.
so there's the possibility that Tywin just didn't know, which is legit, but if Tywin didn't know, who knows?
Just us fans? Tyrion certainly doesn't seem to hint that he has any indication, does he?
I don't think Tywin 100% knew that as a fact or Tyrion would be dead. Did he have suspicions that it could be possible that Tyrion wasn't his son? Yes I think he did.
Which is why he almost threw Tyrion to his death when he was born, until he changed his mind. Plus a man that was so consumed with his legacy, would not want his pride and family image tarnished by admitting that Tyrion might not be a Lannister in the public eye.
I think that doubt was always in the back of Tywin's mind and why he treated Tyrion so poorly in comparison to his brother and sister.
I think that's more of a clue than the dragons not eating him.
Then on top of that, there is the storytellers desire to have a surprise ending. Then add Martins particular delight in flouting convention and fans
Same problems plagued Shakespeare and many a great writer. Consistency, tying up loose ends and ending a multi layered story will of its nature leave false trails and plot inconsistencies.
Supporting theories because otherwise they would be bad writing is going to be harder and harder to do as the series goes on.
Id claim that Martin and the current writers value entertainment and if that means bread crumbs to nowhere...then well so what?...after all more people are watching.
This is especially true as we venture past the books. I'm not sure Martin knows how to get from the widest expanse of his vision to the end state. I think he knew how to get to the A) the very wide expanse and I think he has B) a destination in mind. The toughest stretch of writing would be from A) to B).
The theories are a lot of fun but I suspect watching in an undemanding state is going to be a key to enjoying the rest of the trip
I read an entire article about how a writer was appalled Euron built his Armada as fast as he did. Sure it's a stretch, but do we really want to see him building ships over months or years? He did say he wanted every man, woman, and child working on it. Who cares I say.
And that's before you even get to the fact that he killed the guy's wife.
Then on top of that, there is the storytellers desire to have a surprise ending. Then add Martins particular delight in flouting convention and fans
Same problems plagued Shakespeare and many a great writer. Consistency, tying up loose ends and ending a multi layered story will of its nature leave false trails and plot inconsistencies.
Supporting theories because otherwise they would be bad writing is going to be harder and harder to do as the series goes on.
Id claim that Martin and the current writers value entertainment and if that means bread crumbs to nowhere...then well so what?...after all more people are watching.
This is especially true as we venture past the books. I'm not sure Martin knows how to get from the widest expanse of his vision to the end state. I think he knew how to get to the A) the very wide expanse and I think he has B) a destination in mind. The toughest stretch of writing would be from A) to B).
The theories are a lot of fun but I suspect watching in an undemanding state is going to be a key to enjoying the rest of the trip
I worry about that too. There are potential for a few subplots to go nowhere.
-The true identity of the Lord of Light
-Debt to the Iron Bank
-House of Black and White's unfinished business with Arya
-Everyone in Essos who has had a run-in with Dany (Dario, the Warlocks, Quaith)
-Leadership of the Riverlands
I hope not, but there is a chance all of these subplots are forgotten or turn out to be red herrings.
Tywin was one of the savviest players in the game, if he wanted Tyrion dead I'm positive he could have had him killed and made sure it wasn't traced to him and he wouldn't have looked like a Kinslayer and even probably could have even garnered sympathy for losing a son.
Of course it's a fiction story and the writers write what they write and part of the story being so great is how we all have theories or hopes for the plot, but I definitely don't think that's a legit reason to suspect Tywin lived with a child he suspected was not his own and was a dwarf.
As far as Littlefinger, if he feels squeezed out of Sansa's ear, who is presenting a unified front with Jon, I could see him flipping back to Cersei and the Lannisters. As far as I know she's still unaware he coordinated Joffrey's end and they're looking for allies of all kinds. Regardless of what he does, it seems his personal avarice is too great for him to see the forest for the trees and correctly identify the walkers as the truest threat. The poetic end of Littlefinger is death by white walkers after gaining an ultimately meaningless gain in the game of the 7 kingdoms.
I think Euron takes out the Sand Snakes - Tyrion's too important to die off this early in the story but this serves that purpose (demonstration of loyalty) and ties up a weaker subplot (Dorne).
Still waiting to meet Howland Reed.
I think that's more of a clue than the dragons not eating him.
As I said before, I got that clue from the TV show. By that point in the series, I was trying to figure out why Tywin would leave his role as the Mad King's Hand. When he told Tyrion "since I could not prove your not my son" it clicked about the possibility of Tyrion having another father.
Plus if Tywin was the Mad King's Hand for 20 years, why would he order the Lannister army to sack the city during Robert's rebellion? Why would he order the Mountain to viciously kill any remaining Targaryen family members. Something must have caused Tywin to hold such a vile vendetta against the Mad King after serving as his hand for 20 years. I didn't buy the excuse used in the show that he was mainly upset with Jaime being named to the Kingsguard. Which only leads to something more personal happening with his wife.
Can't speak on when others put together that Mad King rape theory, I didn't get it the first time watching the show. Although right after season 4 ended, I binge watched the first four seasons with in 2-3 weeks and picked up on it then.
Still waiting to meet Howland Reed.
Howland Reed is the only one who can definitively confirm Jon Snow's identity unless Bran does and not sure anyone is going to believe him on that at his word, and Meera still lives as we know, so maybe Meera meets her father and he tells the story to her and Bran - it would be cool to hear someone retell the battle at the Tower of Joy instead of just seeing Bran's vision.
I think that information has to come out somehow and the ways it can realistically come out are few.
The other theory I've seen is that he is who Euron will deliver to Cersei.
Similar to the story of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen, majority of people believed that Rhaegar raped Lyanna. Although some like Littlefinger thought differently and Barristan Selmy spoke very highly of Rhaegar's character, led us to believe Rhaegar wouldn't do such a thing and that he must have loved Lyanna instead.
On the flip side, when the TV show gave us the clue that Tyrion might not be Tywin's son, either one of two things occured. Either Tyrion's mother fell in love with another man and got pregnant or she was raped and got pregnant.
I just leaped to the latter conclusion, as that would help explain why Tywin resigned as Hand of the King after 20 years and why he wanted vengeance against the Mad King during Robert's Rebellion.
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He has to.
The other theory I've seen is that he is who Euron will deliver to Cersei.
How would Euron know of Gendry's existence? It's possible I suppose, but this would bug me a little. It's as much of a leap as it is a twist.
My guess is the sand snakes or whatever they're called. I'm guessing that in order to significantly advance the plot, we need to get to the point pretty quickly where Cedsei and Euron are united. I would be surprised if Euron went to do his thing (off-screen, or very quickly covered) and returned in short order with three heads like olives on a toothpick.
My second guess would be Sansa.
and from all accounts the feelings were mutual I don't think it's realistic Joanna and the mad king fell in love and had an affair, I think rape is the logical conclusion if they ever even had sex.
and from all accounts the feelings were mutual I don't think it's realistic Joanna and the mad king fell in love and had an affair, I think rape is the logical conclusion if they ever even had sex.
Yeah. I don't think that is ever even close to mentioned in the TV series.
And I **wouldn't** be surprised...
And please be vague if answering....
If Tywin still stayed on as the Hand, he could have eventually (possibly) influenced the Mad King to release Jaime from his Kingsguard duties. Something like with Tywin being the wealthiest person in that kingdom, if the King needed to borrow some funds, Tywin as the Hand could have given a donation to release Jaime from the Kingsguard on a royal pardon or something.
By Tywin resigning as the Hand, something else must have occurred. Especially with his reason's for later joining Robert's Rebellion and sacking Kings Landing and giving orders to the Mountain and the Lannister army to act so viciously against the remaining Targaryen's.
But who is the reincarnated Lord of Light? Melisandre thought it was Stannis then Jon Snow. Thoros thinks its Beric Donderion. The Red priests and priestess in Essos think its Dany. Im saying the "red god" could just end up being a red herring.
Also I will be upset if Jaqen is done with Arya. There must be a reason he let her go. I hope we find out why before the show is over.
Admittedly I threw in the Riverlands and Warlock/Dario to fill in my list a bit. But the Iron Bank is another big subplot I am afraid they will drop.
Never read the books and seen the TV series from start to finish (as of season 6) about 5 times now. Never heard the name Edric before.
Although curious, I did a quick google search and saw the TV writers merged Edric's storyline to Gendry's. So they are basically the same person Edric for book readers and Gendry for TV viewers.
Outside of those two very different upbringing, they have similar storylines with how they were used by Stannis and Melisandre.
Robert had many bastards like Gendry, is he the only one the show mentions?
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Some of those are so weak I actually hope they don't spend any time on it. Edmure likely takes over the Riverlands, right? Unfinished business with Arya from Bravos? She paid her debt with a face and was let go freely I thought? A God is supposed to reveal his true identity?
But who is the reincarnated Lord of Light? Melisandre thought it was Stannis then Jon Snow. Thoros thinks its Beric Donderion. The Red priests and priestess in Essos think its Dany. Im saying the "red god" could just end up being a red herring.
Also I will be upset if Jaqen is done with Arya. There must be a reason he let her go. I hope we find out why before the show is over.
Admittedly I threw in the Riverlands and Warlock/Dario to fill in my list a bit. But the Iron Bank is another big subplot I am afraid they will drop.
I think it's pretty clear they are leaning towards Jon being "the one" or whatever you want to call it and Melisandre misinterpreted the signs at first with Stannis. She already brought him back from the dead. I think we find out why Beric keeps getting brought back also... Most likely it's because they all have a "role to play in the Great War to come" . I think they've flat out said that actually. Im not sure the God himself needs to be reincarnated.
Jaqen had an affinity for Arya. He saw her grow as a person and finally take ownership of who she was. He wanted her to stay but understood her reasoning. When she finally said "I am Arya Stark of Winterfell" he smiled like he was happy for her. He said a debt must be paid and a face was due and she put a face on the wall. That was one of the best moments of that rather weak storyline IMO. I see no reason why Jaqen needs to come back for her.
What's the deal with the Iron Bank? I know its in debt. Is this really something we want to waste precious minutes on?
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So there has to be some sort of meaning behind it.
Robert had many bastards like Gendry, is he the only one the show mentions?
All of the bastards are killed. Cersei and Joffrey had them all killed. He is the only one thought to be remaining.
You would have to imagine a huge "fan favorite" death IMO. What else could it be?
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can and should play a massive role moving forward. The Lannisters owe them millions and if not paid the Iron Bank will back and fund their enemy. And with Stannis now dead the deal they made with him they have also lost out on. Them sitting by the wayside makes no sense, they have to broker a deal with someone to try and recoup their losses.
Yeah Tyrion too, though I can't remember if he had direct dealings with them but it's certainly possible that he can scratch up money from Dani to start paying them back.
Yea, I think that has to be right.
Also have to remember that Bran will more than likely warg into one of the dragons to fulfill his destiny of flying.
Again. This seems like a book "thang". Yeah, they briefly touch on this in Season 1 but it hasn't been a focus of the television series at all. Who's to say there's even going to be any Lannisters left at the end of this? Their focus right now is staying alive. They are surrounded by enemies trying to kill them and if they some how miraculously survive all that (keep in mind these enemies are emotionally driven not financially) they have to still fight in the great war to come. If they start putting precedent on their debts over everything else that's going on right now I think it would actually be pretty annoying. At least in terms of the show and the amount of time they've spent with it. Books I couldn't answer for.
with them. There were numerous mentions in Kings Landing beyond season 1. I could be wrong but wasn't there a scene where one of their reps came out to meet Stannis in the North?
Yeah same. It just seems like one of those things that might have had one or two clips in the show over 6 seasons that nobody really thinks about or cares about without the context from the books. They did mention it in the show though so maybe it does come up.
You might be thinking of the books. Because yes they come to meet Stannis at the Wall in the books, but wind up doing a deal and taking a liking to Jon Snow. Which I don't think is an accident. I don't know if they will come into play again in the show, short of some kind of wrap up. I'm almost positive they will in the books. But I don't think it a coincidence in the books they come away liking Jon Snow.
There doesn't need to be much time spent on it. A representative sent and discussing payment options, new terms, or a threat. And it could be a big tie in to something we don't see coming (as I've alluded to, many here think there's only a couple things happening or going to be happening and that doesn't seem like the show's MO).
Or maybe nothing comes of it. But it's 100% from the show, clear as day.
There doesn't need to be much time spent on it. A representative sent and discussing payment options, new terms, or a threat. And it could be a big tie in to something we don't see coming (as I've alluded to, many here think there's only a couple things happening or going to be happening and that doesn't seem like the show's MO).
Or maybe nothing comes of it. But it's 100% from the show, clear as day.
In the show, the Iron Bank has been a shadow over the throne since season 1 since Ned found out about the debt.
In season 3 Tyrion discovers Baelish has been borrowing more than he reported. from the bank. In season 4 Tywin and Olena talk about how the bank should be feared, plus Stannis gets funding for his Northern expedition. In season 5 Mace Tyrell goes to Brovos to speak with them.
It could all be a red herring, but the show keeps reminding us they are powerful and owed $$ from Kingslanding
BTW, I think the Lannisters are currently the only combatants heavily dependent on mercenaries - sorry, George, sellswords. The Unsullied and Dothraki worship their Mhysa/Khaleesi. Jon commands respect and and genuine affection among his Northern bannerman and Wildling allies. The knights of the Vale are a wild card in terms of loyalty and commitment, but their motivation isn't exactly pay-for-play. The Dornish and Ironmen seem happy to follow their assorted commanders, just for the opportunity to fight and f*ck. Meanwhile, as we saw in Arya's last scene, most of Jaime's army just wants to go home. It's not clear how Cersei is even paying/feeding those guys at this point, with Olenna doubtless blocking food shipments from the Reach and the Iron Bank's position unknown.
Around season 4, Tywin tell Cersi, that after the Royal Wedding (which the Tyrell's paid half of the cost), War of the 5 Kings and other war time spending. That the Iron Throne drastically added to their debts to the Iron Bank to astronomical levels. Plus on top of all that, the gold in the Westerland gold mines had run dry 3 years ago.
In season 5, after Tywin's death, the Iron Bank recalls the Iron Throne to pay back a tenth of the debt they own. Although Mace Tyrell as the new Master of Coin tells the small council that they only have half that amount .... basically they just have 1/20 of the amount owned. Mace offered to loan the crown funds to help keep the Bank from escalating affairs but Cersi declines that offer and instead sends Mace to Braavos to negotiate a new deal with the Bank.
So let's say at this time, the Iron Thorne is in debt roughly around 8 million Gold Dragons with no way to repay them. If Mace Tyrell was correct, they only have 1/20 that amount left in reserves, so roughly just around 400,000 Gold Dragons.
Then add to that the money that Stannis borrowed, now to say that the Iron Bank now has roughly 10 million Gold Dragons invested in whoever will be sitting on the Iron Throne......with no way to regain those loans with Stannis dead and the Lannister gold mines run dry.
You would expect, on the TV Series, that the Iron Bank would eventually live up to their slogan "the Iron Bank will have its due". I'd be disappointed if we don't see any more of the Iron Bank, even if it's just another scene or two, in the remaining 12 episodes.
I'm not sure Arya makes it to the end of the story; but I do expect the show-runners to at least reunite her with Sansa and Jon before the Long Night descends.
Knowing this, does Bran know if he enters the Wall, that will also negate the Wall's magic in preventing the Night King from crossing the Wall or possibly bringing it down?
If he does, tough decision to make whether to cross the Wall or not. He'd for certain would have died if he didn't cross the Wall. Although by crossing, he possibly doomed everyone south of the Wall, with Winterfell first in the Night Kings sights.
I think it's more likely to play out (if it even does) by the bankers from Braavosi throwing their support (money for sellswords, ships, etc) behind one side rather than having long meetings/discussions about how to pay off the debt.
I don't think they will spend that much time on it, I'm just expecting a few scenes over the next 12 episodes to show EXACTLY why you don't mess with the Iron Bank.
If the Iron Bank can't collect from either Tywin or Stannis, since they are both dead, I wonder if they would hold accountable the middle men that helped broker those bad debts. I can see the Iron Bank make an example of either Littlefinger (brokering deals for the Lannister's and Iron Throne) or Davos (brokering deal for Stannis).
Might help explain if Jaqen H'ghar makes another appearance in Westeros, as the Iron Bank might pay the Faceless Men to make an example of the people who were responsible for those bad debt.
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A whole heck of a lot more about the debt than me. Nice breakdown. I definitely won't mind if it comes back into play... my meaning all along was that I just hope they don't spend a lot of time on it. There's just not that much time left and I'd hate to spend a bunch of time watching them figuring out how to pay back money. Boring...
I don't think they will spend that much time on it, I'm just expecting a few scenes over the next 12 episodes to show EXACTLY why you don't mess with the Iron Bank.
If the Iron Bank can't collect from either Tywin or Stannis, since they are both dead, I wonder if they would hold accountable the middle men that helped broker those bad debts. I can see the Iron Bank make an example of either Littlefinger (brokering deals for the Lannister's and Iron Throne) or Davos (brokering deal for Stannis).
Might help explain if Jaqen H'ghar makes another appearance in Westeros, as the Iron Bank might pay the Faceless Men to make an example of the people who were responsible for those bad debt.
That's what I was thinking. Its really only going to need a few scenes, and that's something that can easily be fit in an episode.
Maybe I'm mixing up the books and the show, and that's actually the Inn at the Crossroads (a landmark on the way to King's Laning). Or maybe the photo means nothing, and the showrunners just re-used an old set from Season Three.
Arya at the Inn of the Kneeling Man... or Not. - ( New Window )
Maybe I'm mixing up the books and the show, and that's actually the Inn at the Crossroads (a landmark on the way to King's Laning). Or maybe the photo means nothing, and the showrunners just re-used an old set from Season Three. Arya at the Inn of the Kneeling Man... or Not. - ( New Window )
Was Edmure being held at Riverrun or the Twins?
I forget how much Arya knows about her family's whereabouts. She knows Jon is alive in the north in some capacity. Does she know Sansa is out of King's Landing? Did she hear about Bran and Rickon before she left for Bravos? If she's in the dark about all of the above, then uncle Edmure might be her best strategy.
I disagree. She would love a reunion. I don't think she's "gone" at all...
Maybe I'm mixing up the books and the show, and that's actually the Inn at the Crossroads (a landmark on the way to King's Laning). Or maybe the photo means nothing, and the showrunners just re-used an old set from Season Three. Arya at the Inn of the Kneeling Man... or Not. - ( New Window )
I could be wrong, but I think the Crossroads Inn is the only one shown on the show (aside from whatever Inn the Hound and Arya killed Polliver & Co.). Crossroads is the only inn I've heard of as non book-reader. Plus, right after Brienne & Pod came accross Hot Pie they had to decide on going North or East to the Erie, which would indicate Hot Pie was at Crossroads.
Anyway you seem to be right about Arya at the Inn, in that screenshot. The door looks just like the one from when she said her goodbyes to Hot Pie. Maybe they just reused a set or location, but I doubt it.
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The link seems to show her riding up to the Inn of the Kneeling Man. That happens to be Hot Pie's last known place of employment, so Nymeria might not be the only old friend Arya encounters this week. The inn is also on the River Road, not the King's Road, which puts Arya on a path to her mother's home, rather than the Capitol. Not sure what would steer her in that direction, or even what the status of Riverrun might be, with every Frey of consequence rotting at the Twins. I would expect it to still be garrisoned by Lannister/Frey soldiers, no?
Maybe I'm mixing up the books and the show, and that's actually the Inn at the Crossroads (a landmark on the way to King's Laning). Or maybe the photo means nothing, and the showrunners just re-used an old set from Season Three. Arya at the Inn of the Kneeling Man... or Not. - ( New Window )
I could be wrong, but I think the Crossroads Inn is the only one shown on the show (aside from whatever Inn the Hound and Arya killed Polliver & Co.). Crossroads is the only inn I've heard of as non book-reader. Plus, right after Brienne & Pod came accross Hot Pie they had to decide on going North or East to the Erie, which would indicate Hot Pie was at Crossroads.
Anyway you seem to be right about Arya at the Inn, in that screenshot. The door looks just like the one from when she said her goodbyes to Hot Pie. Maybe they just reused a set or location, but I doubt it.
It could lead to a big moment for Arya this week. If she does come across Hot Pie and/or Nymeria at the Crossroads Inn, maybe she will get home sick, or learn of Jon and Sansa, and decide to turn North instead of South to Kings Landing.
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and Sansa is 5'9. Had no idea John was that short. I guess that explains it.
5'8" is even debated. That's what he measured at his pro day. He's probably 5'6" at the combine.
Depends on whether you measure from the root, or the taint.
Night King
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Some of those are so weak I actually hope they don't spend any time on it. Edmure likely takes over the Riverlands, right? Unfinished business with Arya from Bravos? She paid her debt with a face and was let go freely I thought? A God is supposed to reveal his true identity?
But who is the reincarnated Lord of Light? Melisandre thought it was Stannis then Jon Snow. Thoros thinks its Beric Donderion. The Red priests and priestess in Essos think its Dany. Im saying the "red god" could just end up being a red herring.
Also I will be upset if Jaqen is done with Arya. There must be a reason he let her go. I hope we find out why before the show is over.
Admittedly I threw in the Riverlands and Warlock/Dario to fill in my list a bit. But the Iron Bank is another big subplot I am afraid they will drop.
Perhaps they'll have to fight multi-front wars, with the Iron Bank introduced as a wild card/spoiler.
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To acquire the gift. It will be something big, has to be just to level the playing field a little.
Yea, I think that has to be right.
Also have to remember that Bran will more than likely warg into one of the dragons to fulfill his destiny of flying.
The Raven can't fly?
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Winterfell is south of the wall. They are north. I actually counted three with the Knights King.
Night King
Typo.