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NFT: Knicks Chat 7/17/2017- As the Melo turns

DanMetroMan : 7/17/2017 9:09 am
- Some are suggesting the Blazers "interest" is fully fabricated either by the Knicks or the Blazers themselves (theory being the fan reaction to their involvement helping perceived rivals the Rockets get better while they land... Ryan Anderson has been quite poor)

-Mills reportedly is supportive of letting the coach make all "system" decisions, Phil was not (this according to Berman)

-Also per Berman, the Knicks aren't really trying to convince Melo to stay. They are looking to reset negotiations but are willing to keep Melo as a mentor type if Melo is open to it.

-Mills reportedly wanted Waiters more than THjr but became "desperate". Berman believes Mills misplayed the market with the Baker signing after seeing guys like Felton/Jeff Green sign for what they did. As I've noted the actual $$ doesn't bother me, the PO is the issue.
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Only makes sense  
steve in ky : 7/18/2017 3:44 pm : link
if their plan is to get another high draft pick while grooming a young team for the future. If there wasn't a pg out there who they really wanted to commit to maybe it's better to simply pass, get another decent pick, and look to add more key pieces next season with more cap room.
RE: Even  
Enzo : 7/18/2017 3:49 pm : link
In comment 13531315 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
if you love the THjr/Baker moves... truly bizarre how the Knicks backed themselves into a corner cap wise with an OBVIOUS need at PG.

it really is irresponsible roster management. And, of course, the seeds for this were planted last summer with the Rose trade and Noah signing where many people (correctly) predicted we'd end up with a gaping hole at PG and an albatross contract at center.
Not having a PG will really help our efforts to tank  
NoGainDayne : 7/18/2017 3:50 pm : link
also, KP needs to work on post reps and driving so don't really need a PG for that.

If we can move Melo we will be all set to tank. Just wish we had done it a year earlier. Watching Ball tear up the summer league as a Laker is painful. I really like Fox too...
it's funny  
Enzo : 7/18/2017 3:52 pm : link
the point guard position is loaded at it's highest levels...but the universe of backup point guards seems to be pretty mediocre.
They  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 3:57 pm : link
spoke to Rondo and Hill, "had interest" in Teague, had interest in Rubio, Holiday. This pretty clearly wasn't what they had planned. I'm just curious at what point they said "eh who cares?" The Rockets don't even have a scrubby back up PG we can take back in a Melo deal. I guess Napier from Portland. Basically nada.
Ball is an  
Deej : 7/18/2017 3:59 pm : link
amazing passer. Particularly his ability to deliver the ball to a specific place. But there are lots of reasons to be concerned. I think in some ways Summer League solidified those concerns rather than clearing them up.

The offense was terrible in the half court. He couldnt turn the corner on enough guys. His shot mechanics are still terrible. So few guy in this world can D up, and most of them are NBA vets. I'd be scared as a Lakers fan to see what happens in game 50 this season. Can he get to the lane in the half court? Is he not even trying to take a covered jumper because of his hitch?
just dont get desperate and trade for knight  
nygiants16 : 7/18/2017 4:04 pm : link
go with baker or sign a guy like ramon sessions for a year, no reason to panic to get a point guard...

the plan is not to win next year so going with baker and ntlikina is fine with me...

i would like even with a melo trade to get aomething for lee...
RE: Ball is an  
David in LA : 7/18/2017 4:09 pm : link
In comment 13531369 Deej said:
Quote:
amazing passer. Particularly his ability to deliver the ball to a specific place. But there are lots of reasons to be concerned. I think in some ways Summer League solidified those concerns rather than clearing them up.

The offense was terrible in the half court. He couldnt turn the corner on enough guys. His shot mechanics are still terrible. So few guy in this world can D up, and most of them are NBA vets. I'd be scared as a Lakers fan to see what happens in game 50 this season. Can he get to the lane in the half court? Is he not even trying to take a covered jumper because of his hitch?


The shot is one of the last things I'm concerned about, and it's overblown IMO. In fact, I think most of his weaknesses are really exaggerated around here. He's getting his legs, and needs to get his conditioning in order. He's shown that he can do a little bit of everything so far this Summer.
RE: RE: Ball is an  
nygiants16 : 7/18/2017 4:17 pm : link
In comment 13531388 David in LA said:
Quote:
In comment 13531369 Deej said:


Quote:


amazing passer. Particularly his ability to deliver the ball to a specific place. But there are lots of reasons to be concerned. I think in some ways Summer League solidified those concerns rather than clearing them up.

The offense was terrible in the half court. He couldnt turn the corner on enough guys. His shot mechanics are still terrible. So few guy in this world can D up, and most of them are NBA vets. I'd be scared as a Lakers fan to see what happens in game 50 this season. Can he get to the lane in the half court? Is he not even trying to take a covered jumper because of his hitch?



The shot is one of the last things I'm concerned about, and it's overblown IMO. In fact, I think most of his weaknesses are really exaggerated around here. He's getting his legs, and needs to get his conditioning in order. He's shown that he can do a little bit of everything so far this Summer.


i think ball has the talent to be a great player, the qiestion is does he have the work ethic and the killer instinct to take over a game and carry a team...

if the team gets down 8 or 10 points can he pit them on their back, i saw him quit when they got down against kentucky...

obviousky wont happen year 1 maybe not even year 2...

and for the record i have the same questions with kp, how is going to play with melo off the team and everyone is looking at him
...  
Keith : 7/18/2017 4:22 pm : link

Carmelo Anthony has made it clear to New York management that he no longer wants to be a Knick, according to Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN.

"Carmelo Anthony has made it clear to [the Knicks]: I want to go to Houston, I am not interested in talking to you about being reincorporated back into this New York roster," said Woj. "Houston is now prepared for the fact that these negotiations with the Knicks could run through August, September, into possibly the start of training camp." Cleveland has been rumored to have an interest in Anthony, but they can't really offer New York anything they're interested in, and Melo won't waive his no-trade clause to go to Portland, so it seems all but a certainty that Anthony is headed for a reunion with Mike D'Antoni in Houston.
This guy is funny.  
Keith : 7/18/2017 4:23 pm : link
Melo, we don't owe you anything. We paid you handsomely to play half of a game some of the time. I'd almost rather they let this guy play games in his home gym instead.
I thought he wanted to stay close to his family.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 7/18/2017 4:28 pm : link
Maybe that was before LaLa took it off on this week's "Power".
RE: ...  
Enzo : 7/18/2017 4:29 pm : link
In comment 13531402 Keith said:
Quote:

Carmelo Anthony has made it clear to New York management that he no longer wants to be a Knick, according to Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN.

"Carmelo Anthony has made it clear to [the Knicks]: I want to go to Houston, I am not interested in talking to you about being reincorporated back into this New York roster," said Woj. "Houston is now prepared for the fact that these negotiations with the Knicks could run through August, September, into possibly the start of training camp." Cleveland has been rumored to have an interest in Anthony, but they can't really offer New York anything they're interested in, and Melo won't waive his no-trade clause to go to Portland, so it seems all but a certainty that Anthony is headed for a reunion with Mike D'Antoni in Houston.

so much good stuff here. A no-trade clause is not a must-trade clause. If there's no deal, then he has no choice but to "reincorporate" himself back into this roster. Cleveland can in fact offer something or someone NY has interest in - they just don't want to part with him. As for it being all but a certainty he's going to Houston, that's a bunch of bullshit. If Mills/Perry aren't complete morons (not ruling that out just yet), he's not going to Houston unless the deal starts looking a lot different.
My how the tables have turned.  
bceagle05 : 7/18/2017 4:31 pm : link
.
Yeah, fuck him  
Deej : 7/18/2017 4:34 pm : link
I'd want to dictate my way out of a rebuild too, so I dont have hard feelings about this (and I think he should go).

But if you want to go to Houston, tell them to offer us something that isnt literally their garbage that no one will take. Or expand your list. Or STFU. OR EVEN TAKE A $1 BUYOUT (not sure I'd do it).

Again, no hard feelings, but I could care less about what he wants. He has been using his NTC leverage against us; we're not doing him any favors now.
Really the ball is now in the Knicks court if Melo doesn't want  
steve in ky : 7/18/2017 4:34 pm : link
any part of being a Knick this season. They should bring some more teams into trade talks and then if they get a better offer than from Houston they make Melo make a decision, take the trade or stay put.
Also if that's really what he said  
Deej : 7/18/2017 4:36 pm : link
Horny should feel free to bench him at will for not executing the schemes. Enough babying. Biggest issue on this team after overall talent/athleticism (heh) is lack of accountability.
I don't know if you saw the incredibly awkward  
Keith : 7/18/2017 4:40 pm : link
Mills/Perry/Horny press conference, but accountability was high on their list moving forward. I think the list went:

Personal gains
Youth
Athleticism
Accountability
Can a team keep a player on the roster and then  
andrew_nyg : 7/18/2017 4:45 pm : link
keep him inactive and throughout the season.

I wouldn't trade him unless I could get decent value and no bad contracts.

If I couldn't trade him, I still don't want him within a mile of my young players...and don't want him near Porzingis either sooooooo
RE: I don't know if you saw the incredibly awkward  
Deej : 7/18/2017 4:46 pm : link
In comment 13531420 Keith said:
Quote:
Mills/Perry/Horny press conference, but accountability was high on their list moving forward. I think the list went:

Personal gains
Youth
Athleticism
Accountability


Meh. Mills still works there so there is no accountability.

I think accountability is huge. If your best players are your hardest workers and the guys who buy in the most, you can exceed your talent. But the problem of a Melo is that he doesnt try his hardest all the time (defense) and is resistant to certain offensive things (though how much of that is crappy teammates). It's why I've always said Melo is a good piece but not as your best player. He cant be your leader and tone setter. And you dont want the tone set by a Noah or Chandler or other role player.
yes,  
Keith : 7/18/2017 4:46 pm : link
the knicks have paid many players to stay home.
I agree  
Keith : 7/18/2017 4:47 pm : link
100%.
RE: Can a team keep a player on the roster and then  
Strahan91 : 7/18/2017 4:52 pm : link
In comment 13531432 andrew_nyg said:
Quote:
keep him inactive and throughout the season.

I wouldn't trade him unless I could get decent value and no bad contracts.

If I couldn't trade him, I still don't want him within a mile of my young players...and don't want him near Porzingis either sooooooo


I have to think he would file a grievance. It would be a strong case that it was done because he wouldn't waive his NTC which could get the Knicks into a lot of trouble.
I think any hopes  
Enzo : 7/18/2017 4:53 pm : link
of Melo taking an altruistic approach to his eventual exit went out the window once Phil commenced his smear campaign. Don't underestimate the damage Phil inflicted via Rosen and his own words. After every game Melo had to take questions on this crap while Phil routinely hid from the media. The organization didn't owe him much, but I think they owed him better than he got these last few months.

That said, fuck him! Don't trade him until it's a fair return.
What a cancer he is.  
yatqb : 7/18/2017 4:55 pm : link
Too bad that he wants to dictate what our FO should do...if they have any balls at all they won't let that happen.

The Knicks owed him nothing.  
Keith : 7/18/2017 4:55 pm : link
He owed the Knicks a much better effort, yet he was happy trying whenever he wanted. Phil did the right thing going after Melo, but he only had to because of the ridiculous NTC.
RE: Can a team keep a player on the roster and then  
Enzo : 7/18/2017 4:55 pm : link
In comment 13531432 andrew_nyg said:
Quote:
keep him inactive and throughout the season.

I wouldn't trade him unless I could get decent value and no bad contracts.

If I couldn't trade him, I still don't want him within a mile of my young players...and don't want him near Porzingis either sooooooo

they sort of did this with Marbury during Dantoni's first year, I think. I get all of these different fiascos mixed up sometimes.
Melo....  
Keith : 7/18/2017 4:55 pm : link
Tryin to screw the Knicks on the way in and the way out.
RE: The Knicks owed him nothing.  
Enzo : 7/18/2017 4:56 pm : link
In comment 13531449 Keith said:
Quote:
Phil did the right thing going after Melo

that's nonsense - but whatever. You defended so many of Phil's moves I guess it just became a reflex for you.
RE: RE: RE: Ball is an  
David in LA : 7/18/2017 4:58 pm : link
In comment 13531400 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13531388 David in LA said:


Quote:


In comment 13531369 Deej said:


Quote:


amazing passer. Particularly his ability to deliver the ball to a specific place. But there are lots of reasons to be concerned. I think in some ways Summer League solidified those concerns rather than clearing them up.

The offense was terrible in the half court. He couldnt turn the corner on enough guys. His shot mechanics are still terrible. So few guy in this world can D up, and most of them are NBA vets. I'd be scared as a Lakers fan to see what happens in game 50 this season. Can he get to the lane in the half court? Is he not even trying to take a covered jumper because of his hitch?



The shot is one of the last things I'm concerned about, and it's overblown IMO. In fact, I think most of his weaknesses are really exaggerated around here. He's getting his legs, and needs to get his conditioning in order. He's shown that he can do a little bit of everything so far this Summer.



i think ball has the talent to be a great player, the qiestion is does he have the work ethic and the killer instinct to take over a game and carry a team...

if the team gets down 8 or 10 points can he pit them on their back, i saw him quit when they got down against kentucky...

obviousky wont happen year 1 maybe not even year 2...

and for the record i have the same questions with kp, how is going to play with melo off the team and everyone is looking at him


No disagreements there. I know it's only Summer League, but I saw Lonzo play with a great sense of court awareness and just knowing what the situation was. We'll see if if carries over into the regular season. I just disagree with the critics that harp on his shooting mechanics, yes the hitch creates a slower motion, but he's not ever going to be a guy that hoists up a contested shot, I don't think that's in his DNA, his preference is always going to be to move the ball to someone else for an easier shot, which is what Lavar also said recently. The thing I'm most looking forward to is seeing if Lonzo can help a guy like Brandon Ingram reach his true potential. It wouldn't surprise me to see Ingram get closer to 20PPG and a contender for most improved.
RE: Also if that's really what he said  
TyreeHelmet : 7/18/2017 5:05 pm : link
In comment 13531417 Deej said:
Quote:
Horny should feel free to bench him at will for not executing the schemes. Enough babying. Biggest issue on this team after overall talent/athleticism (heh) is lack of accountability.


Easier said than done. Blows up the entire locker room and team. Knicks went down this path. Now they just need to get the trade done.
It's  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 5:07 pm : link
not as easy as just sending him to Houston. The Knicks aren't taking back longer term deals (why the fuck should they?) so either he hopes Houston finds someone to dance with them or you tell him he can expand his list or enjoy MSG.
RE: RE: Also if that's really what he said  
Deej : 7/18/2017 5:18 pm : link
In comment 13531468 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 13531417 Deej said:


Quote:


Horny should feel free to bench him at will for not executing the schemes. Enough babying. Biggest issue on this team after overall talent/athleticism (heh) is lack of accountability.



Easier said than done. Blows up the entire locker room and team. Knicks went down this path. Now they just need to get the trade done.


Absolutely. But I think it gets a lot easier if he said he doesnt want to be incorporated into the team, and his teammates know it. It even gives KP some room to lead. Coaches should take him aside and say "look, we are trying to build a winning environment, and we cant have anyone just bucking the scheme. If Melo, or Jo, or you wont fight thru a screen or hit the cutter, there have to be consequences. Or else Willy, and Frank, and everyone else will come to believe that you can do whatever you want."
Charley!  
Enzo : 7/18/2017 5:18 pm : link
I don't even know where to begin, but this is hysterical:
Link - ( New Window )
Rosen called Dolan "Guitar Jimmy??"  
bceagle05 : 7/18/2017 5:22 pm : link
Gotta credit Bob Raissman there, Chuck.
RE: It's  
NoGainDayne : 7/18/2017 5:31 pm : link
In comment 13531470 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
not as easy as just sending him to Houston. The Knicks aren't taking back longer term deals (why the fuck should they?) so either he hopes Houston finds someone to dance with them or you tell him he can expand his list or enjoy MSG.


Totally. People are acting like the Knicks have no leverage here. If Melo is going to be a distraction in the clubhouse suspend him for conduct detrimental to the team. This is par for the course for Melo, he pressured the deal to get him here in the first place. (When we gave up far too many assets) If we let him force our hand to take junk on the other end I guess that's par for the course for the Knicks but maybe the fact that this team has zero chance to compete this year can force them to actually look to the long term for once. Melo has been a great player in the league, but he also looks like a baby time and time again. Even this whole Olympics Melo is the best BS! So you don't know how to nurture players that aren't stars? You don't know how to share the ball with players that don't have your skills? Grow up.
As for Rosen, he sure didn't help the situation, so  
yatqb : 7/18/2017 5:37 pm : link
"Fuck you too" as Pacino once said.

But we all know it's gonna be a long slog to respectability, that we'll need to get lucky in the lottery, and that we can't take on any older guys who screw up both the cap and the tank.

If Mills and Perry recognize that they won't do something foolish in a Melo trade. If they do fuck that trade up, we'll know that we're back in same old, same old.
Rosen scoffs  
Deej : 7/18/2017 5:37 pm : link
Quote:
Mills and Perry both emphasized the need to have young, athletic players on the team. As opposed to recruiting or trading for old, non-athletic players?


Rose and Noah, fuckwits. Actually, about a 20 year history of the Knicks favoring skill over youth and athleticism.

Then he criticized Mills for not taking a dump on Jackson. Then for not saying they're desperate to be rid of Melo (killing any value).

The rest is a staggeringly mean salvo. Which the whole league will assume is straight from Phil's mouth. This article should prevent Phil from getting another job in the NBA ever again. Including broadcasting.

Also, a mere 11 years off on Knight's age. I bet he's thinking of Brevin Knight.
RE: Charley!  
TyreeHelmet : 7/18/2017 5:43 pm : link
In comment 13531489 Enzo said:
Quote:
I don't even know where to begin, but this is hysterical: Link - ( New Window )


Thats the first Rosen article where I actually agreed with some of his points. Still has some rambling idiotic statements, but he was actually correct with some.

Who the hell pays this guy? And what's the over under on how many Knicks game it takes Phil to chime in?
Once again, it really is the Knicks' fault.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/18/2017 6:11 pm : link
He didn't want to leave, but at least the relationship wasn't poison to the point where they might have been able to get him to add some teams to his list. If Phil didn't fuck this up from the very start with the NTC, and then again by moronically thinking he could push him out just by being publicly mean to him, they wouldn't be in this situation.

Whether they pay him to stay home or not, the Knicks completely fuck up asset management yet again. He doesn't have as much value as some people think, but now because of how this played out, he has even less.
RE: Once again, it really is the Knicks' fault.  
Deej : 7/18/2017 6:19 pm : link
In comment 13531548 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
He didn't want to leave, but at least the relationship wasn't poison to the point where they might have been able to get him to add some teams to his list. If Phil didn't fuck this up from the very start with the NTC, and then again by moronically thinking he could push him out just by being publicly mean to him, they wouldn't be in this situation.

Whether they pay him to stay home or not, the Knicks completely fuck up asset management yet again. He doesn't have as much value as some people think, but now because of how this played out, he has even less.


Phil is gone. Melo could easily come back to the fold if he wanted to. This is about getting to play with Chris Paul.
Phil is gone months after this started. It's not like it was just  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/18/2017 6:51 pm : link
one bad week. This could have and should have been handled privately if there was any adult supervision in MSG. I'd blame everyone too if I were him, not just Phil. The whole situation was comical and allowed to run on way too long.
We do owe him his money  
Carl in CT : 7/18/2017 7:04 pm : link
He owes us to be professional on and off the court. If he is not then the remedy is to sit him. No star treatment. If he is really disruptive then suspend him or don't dress him.
Fuck Melo  
Phil in LA : 7/18/2017 7:31 pm : link
They let him run the team the whole time he was here.
Of all the things to believe about the Knicks  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/18/2017 7:42 pm : link
I strongly doubt he was running the team. If he was, Woodson would probably still be the coach and they would have drafted Josh Selby in 2011.
Wouldn't run MDA's O  
Phil in LA : 7/18/2017 8:01 pm : link
Wouldn't run the triangle. Pitched fits over picks. Jackson was the only one who stood up to him.
Jackson was a moron who deserved to be fired.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/18/2017 9:34 pm : link
And nobody wanted to run the triangle. Not even the coach.
RE: Wouldn't run MDA's O  
djm : 7/18/2017 10:07 pm : link
In comment 13531616 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
Wouldn't run the triangle. Pitched fits over picks. Jackson was the only one who stood up to him.


This seems pretty close to the truth.

Melo has been a pain in the ass this whole time too. It takes two or in this case 3-4 to tango. If Melo hadn't been a pain in the ass we wouldn't be where we are now-- fucked, as usual. Can't trade melo anywhere because he's only allowing one team to play and we can't play the guy. So... great... tell melo to either expand the list and or tell the rockets to pony up something not awful for a return and if we can't deal him, shut up and play. Be a professional there melo. No D or effort? No play.

And I'm not defending phil's actions  
djm : 7/18/2017 10:10 pm : link
But it sure as hell looks like melo really really really pissed off phil jackson. Something set off jackson. The guy went nuts with a scorched earth social media crusade against melo. Why? Don't tell me it was simply to get melo to accept a trade. There was more to this.
With all the money the Knicks have wasted over the years  
mfsd : 7/18/2017 10:29 pm : link
they should have no problem telling Melo he can either A, light a fire under his agents to arrange a deal that's good for the Knicks, or B, the Knicks will be happy to pay him to stay home. Fuck letting him bully the Knicks into a crap deal
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