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NFT: Knicks Chat 7/17/2017- As the Melo turns

DanMetroMan : 7/17/2017 9:09 am
- Some are suggesting the Blazers "interest" is fully fabricated either by the Knicks or the Blazers themselves (theory being the fan reaction to their involvement helping perceived rivals the Rockets get better while they land... Ryan Anderson has been quite poor)

-Mills reportedly is supportive of letting the coach make all "system" decisions, Phil was not (this according to Berman)

-Also per Berman, the Knicks aren't really trying to convince Melo to stay. They are looking to reset negotiations but are willing to keep Melo as a mentor type if Melo is open to it.

-Mills reportedly wanted Waiters more than THjr but became "desperate". Berman believes Mills misplayed the market with the Baker signing after seeing guys like Felton/Jeff Green sign for what they did. As I've noted the actual $$ doesn't bother me, the PO is the issue.
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It's  
DanMetroMan : 7/17/2017 2:51 pm : link
funny the Cavs have such garbage assets that you can't even come up with a "fantasy" trade where you think there is no way they do it.
if any Cav/Melo  
Pep22 : 7/17/2017 3:03 pm : link
trade exists, its a 3 way w Love headed west i.e. to the Suns

would I take on the unattractive Knight/Dudley contracts for the upside of Warren + Chriss? yep

Now you have upside/youth at every position plus a couple beyond that
would I do that if I'm  
Pep22 : 7/17/2017 3:05 pm : link
the Cavs? no...but maybe Love's recent performance and lack of front office stability leads them to a bad deal
Suns  
DanMetroMan : 7/17/2017 3:07 pm : link
sound like they are rolling with Bender/Big Sauce at the 4. Bender was apparently very impressive. I don't see them giving up Warren/Chriss for Love.
Gilbert  
DanMetroMan : 7/17/2017 3:09 pm : link
also wanted to force keeping love on Chauncey (in addition to low balling him) so I find it hard to believe that has changed either.

Dragan Bender scored 20 points with seven rebounds, five assists, three turnovers and one 3-pointer against the Grizzlies on Thursday.
He had more freedom on offense than maybe ever. Bender was even bringing the ball up and had plenty of plays drawn up for him to create, so he wasn't just a stretch five like he was earlier in this event. This probably won't be happening too often in October, but Bender's growth compared to last July is clearly there. He'll be vying for minutes at three positions with the Suns, but he won't have too much fantasy value out of the gate. Jul 13 - 9:57 PM
Rockets  
DanMetroMan : 7/17/2017 3:22 pm : link
press conference is to announce they are for sale.
Does Rocket sale reduce the possibility of Melo to Houston?  
PhilSimms15 : 7/17/2017 3:38 pm : link
Another owner might not want to take on a big contract (unless of course Anderson is the swap). But Knicks won't do that deal.
RE: Does Rocket sale reduce the possibility of Melo to Houston?  
DanMetroMan : 7/17/2017 3:40 pm : link
In comment 13530290 PhilSimms15 said:
Quote:
Another owner might not want to take on a big contract (unless of course Anderson is the swap). But Knicks won't do that deal.


Melo at worst only has 2 years left (odds are it's one and an opt out) so I doubt they would be any impact.
Perry admitted Mills will have final say in all basketball decisions  
Canton : 7/17/2017 4:06 pm : link
On ESPN radio.

Greeny was shocked with his candor and wondered why they didn't just say that during their press conference.

During page press conference, they portrayed their future working relationship as working in tandem with one another, when making any future decisions, in the front office and the team.
I think  
Phil in LA : 7/17/2017 4:08 pm : link
They just needed to get everyone intro'd and there back to the business of trading Melo.
I'd  
DanMetroMan : 7/17/2017 4:11 pm : link
like to see Perry allowed to bring in at least one of his own guys.
Marc Spears  
capone : 7/17/2017 4:27 pm : link
article on Scott Perry - Spears is a good writer and calls them straight
Link - ( New Window )
Seems to me it will likely be another 5 year slog to possible  
yatqb : 7/17/2017 4:56 pm : link
relevance, IF they make all the right moves going forward and get lucky in the lottery.
RE: Seems to me it will likely be another 5 year slog to possible  
bceagle05 : 7/17/2017 5:01 pm : link
In comment 13530382 yatqb said:
Quote:
relevance, IF they make all the right moves going forward and get lucky in the lottery.


Sounds good to me! This is the only strategy that has not been tried and failed.
Tommy  
DanMetroMan : 7/17/2017 5:03 pm : link
Dee is so pathetic. Perry was asked if KP would be a good player or a great player and he basically deferred saying he needed time to evaluate the roster before commenting. Which Tommy took to mean Perry is "not sold" on KP.
What's it gonna take to get you to stop following Tommy dee  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/17/2017 5:07 pm : link
Lol
RE: Perry admitted Mills will have final say in all basketball decisions  
Deej : 7/17/2017 5:08 pm : link
In comment 13530325 Canton said:
Quote:
On ESPN radio.

Greeny was shocked with his candor and wondered why they didn't just say that during their press conference.

During page press conference, they portrayed their future working relationship as working in tandem with one another, when making any future decisions, in the front office and the team.


Begs the question of how much review Mills will really do. Most teams the owner has to sign off on basketball decisions, formally or de facto. Some owners have a light hand. Im sure Cuban needs total buy in.

So saying Mills has final say only gives you some of the story.
RE: What's it gonna take to get you to stop following Tommy dee  
DanMetroMan : 7/17/2017 5:09 pm : link
In comment 13530401 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Lol


I'm addicted to despising this guy lol
RE: RE: Perry admitted Mills will have final say in all basketball decisions  
DanMetroMan : 7/17/2017 5:18 pm : link
In comment 13530403 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13530325 Canton said:


Quote:


On ESPN radio.

Greeny was shocked with his candor and wondered why they didn't just say that during their press conference.

During page press conference, they portrayed their future working relationship as working in tandem with one another, when making any future decisions, in the front office and the team.



Begs the question of how much review Mills will really do. Most teams the owner has to sign off on basketball decisions, formally or de facto. Some owners have a light hand. Im sure Cuban needs total buy in.

So saying Mills has final say only gives you some of the story.


Deej,
I think the difference is it appears Mills fancies himself as an eye for talent. He's been on scouting missions for Phil, apparently the guy behind the THjr move so this is a bit more complicated than a figurehead "boss".
.  
DanMetroMan : 7/17/2017 5:21 pm : link

NO MEETING YET WITH PORZINGIS

Among the other topics covered Monday, Mills hedged on whether he plans to fly to Europe this summer to meet with disgruntled unicorn Kristaps Porzingis, who skipped his exit meeting with former President Phil Jackson and then left the country for his native Latvia without meeting with Knicks’ brass.

“Kristaps and I have a hectic texting relationship,” Mills said. “I continued to text him over the summer and he and I have spoken I think two or three times over the summer.”

The Knicks said they plan to rebuild around youngsters Porzingis, Tim Hardaway Jr., Willy Hernangomez and rookie Frank Ntilikina.

Porzginis was upset with the perceived dysfunction around the Knicks, and with the treatment of Anthony by Jackson. If the Knicks end up dealing Anthony, the team will belong to Porzingis and there will be an even brighter spotlight on his behavior.
Link - ( New Window )
Of all things Knicks, KP is very low on my list of worries  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/17/2017 6:02 pm : link
As far as his "behavior". Weird to me how quickly he became a target.
I think once Melo is gone  
steve in ky : 7/17/2017 6:06 pm : link
KP will start to appreciate that just maybe Melo wasn't helping his game as much as he may now believe.
Just being on the court is enough that he doesn't draw the team's  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/17/2017 6:52 pm : link
best defender. So, once he's gone he'll have to figure that out.
Troy  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 11:05 am : link
Williams apparently impressed in summer league ball, I guess he should be on our Melo wishlist.
KP's  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/18/2017 11:08 am : link
'Behavior?' He skipped a freaking exit meeting. Man, that's been blown out of proportion, especially that now Phil is gone.
annoying that this Melo stuff...  
Italianju : 7/18/2017 11:11 am : link
could easily drag out. Really there isnt any reason for the Knicks to rush. And im not saying i want them to rush, but it would be nice to get a resolution to this sooner rather then later.

RE: Troy  
Anakim : 7/18/2017 11:29 am : link
In comment 13530941 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Williams apparently impressed in summer league ball, I guess he should be on our Melo wishlist.


He's a FA, no?
The objective is clear  
Anakim : 7/18/2017 12:15 pm : link
Get a top 5 pick next year and take one of Michael Porter Jr., Luke Doncic and Deandre Ayton. Then get another top 5 pick the following year and take one of Zion Williamson, RJ Barrett and Marvin Bagley III.


Then we'd have 4 cornerstone players. Hoorah
RE: RE: Troy  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 12:15 pm : link
In comment 13530987 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 13530941 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Williams apparently impressed in summer league ball, I guess he should be on our Melo wishlist.



He's a FA, no?


Tim McMahon listed him as property of the Rockets but the Rockets blog "dream shake" makes it sound otherwise

"LAS VEGAS — Another day, another Summer League game that showed Troy Williams deserves an NBA contract. The longer he pays, the more competition Daryl Morey may have for the athletic wing.

Williams led the Rockets in scoring for the second straight game, putting in 21 points. He was a terror defensively, creating at least six points for himself on steals he ended with a dunk. The dude is a player."
This  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 12:16 pm : link
makes it sound like they own his rights
Link - ( New Window )
RE: The objective is clear  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 12:19 pm : link
In comment 13531035 Anakim said:
Quote:
Get a top 5 pick next year and take one of Michael Porter Jr., Luke Doncic and Deandre Ayton. Then get another top 5 pick the following year and take one of Zion Williamson, RJ Barrett and Marvin Bagley III.


Then we'd have 4 cornerstone players. Hoorah


Bagley may be in the 2018 draft
Apparently  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 12:20 pm : link
some feel Hartenstein was more impressive than Qi in summer league play.
RE: The objective is clear  
Deej : 7/18/2017 1:23 pm : link
In comment 13531035 Anakim said:
Quote:
Get a top 5 pick next year and take one of Michael Porter Jr., Luke Doncic and Deandre Ayton. Then get another top 5 pick the following year and take one of Zion Williamson, RJ Barrett and Marvin Bagley III.


Then we'd have 4 cornerstone players. Hoorah


I dont think the Knicks priority is to be bad.

Also, are we projecting the Knicks to be bottom 5 in the NBA bad in 2018-19? That is year 4 of KP. If we're that bad either he isnt the star we're hoping on or EVERYONE else is horrible. Year 3 of Willy (who will be 24). Year 2 of Frank. THJR's prime. A top 5 pick in 2019 would be kind of a disaster IMO.
Yeah  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 1:31 pm : link
I'm with Deej. If KP/Willy/Frank/THjr, a high pick next year and whatever other players populate the roster still equals a very high pick the following season... things went very, very wrong.
Dotson  
Phil in LA : 7/18/2017 1:34 pm : link
Can be a valuable 6th man.
agree with above comments  
Enzo : 7/18/2017 1:39 pm : link
If KP makes the leap we all expect him too - he might be good enough to wreck a tank all by himself. Especially in the east and with some decent vets still around (Lance, Lee, KOQ). I'm not saying he's taking us to 50 wins, but this does not project to be a 15-20 win roster over the next few years. Even without Melo.
I  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 1:42 pm : link
mean if they are that bad not only does it mean that KP didn't take the jump it means the other guys (Frank, Willy, Dotson, THjr and whomever we took this upcoming season) + whomever they sign/trade for really disappointed. I'm all about the rebuild but odds are we are in bad shape if that were to happen.
THJr's prime?  
Greg from LI : 7/18/2017 1:46 pm : link
RE: THJr's prime?  
JoeMoney19 : 7/18/2017 1:51 pm : link
In comment 13531145 Greg from LI said:
Quote:

An apotheosis does not imply a lack of impotence.
Howard Beck  
Enzo : 7/18/2017 2:31 pm : link
with a solid and sobering take on the Knicks front office. Nothing really new here, but a good summary for those who are unfamiliar with Mills and some of the history around who works and has worked at MSG.
Link - ( New Window )
Yeah, I was just gonna post that Beck story...  
bceagle05 : 7/18/2017 2:45 pm : link
Quote:
"It's too bad," a rival team executive said of the Knicks. "They could spin this so fast if they would just start over again. And what they're doing is putting a Band-Aid on a major wound."
RE: Howard Beck  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 7/18/2017 3:15 pm : link
In comment 13531213 Enzo said:
Quote:
with a solid and sobering take on the Knicks front office. Nothing really new here, but a good summary for those who are unfamiliar with Mills and some of the history around who works and has worked at MSG. Link - ( New Window )


So ... Phil Jackson wasn't making all of the decisions? Stuff like this attributes more power to these underlings than they actually had.

Even the people who are listed as "good" made decisions like the Bargnani trade and drafted Jordan Hill.
Even  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 3:28 pm : link
if you love the THjr/Baker moves... truly bizarre how the Knicks backed themselves into a corner cap wise with an OBVIOUS need at PG.
Some call it bizarre,  
Keith : 7/18/2017 3:31 pm : link
some just call it Knicksesque. Looooong history of wtf decisions and moves.
RE: Some call it bizarre,  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 3:36 pm : link
In comment 13531322 Keith said:
Quote:
some just call it Knicksesque. Looooong history of wtf decisions and moves.


Fair enough lol. Just crazy they have shown interest in PG's all off-season, acknowledge 1. Frank needs time 2. That KP is going to be the main focus and then leave themselves with 1.4 million to spend and "nobody" left at that price. People keep saying maybe they will add some space in a Melo deal... for who? That couldn't possibly have been the plan.
Yeah, it really makes no sense.  
Keith : 7/18/2017 3:37 pm : link
The good news, it's only going to help us be terrible this year. It's going to suck for our young players, but there are no good options left.
Only makes sense  
steve in ky : 7/18/2017 3:44 pm : link
if their plan is to get another high draft pick while grooming a young team for the future. If there wasn't a pg out there who they really wanted to commit to maybe it's better to simply pass, get another decent pick, and look to add more key pieces next season with more cap room.
RE: Even  
Enzo : 7/18/2017 3:49 pm : link
In comment 13531315 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
if you love the THjr/Baker moves... truly bizarre how the Knicks backed themselves into a corner cap wise with an OBVIOUS need at PG.

it really is irresponsible roster management. And, of course, the seeds for this were planted last summer with the Rose trade and Noah signing where many people (correctly) predicted we'd end up with a gaping hole at PG and an albatross contract at center.
Not having a PG will really help our efforts to tank  
NoGainDayne : 7/18/2017 3:50 pm : link
also, KP needs to work on post reps and driving so don't really need a PG for that.

If we can move Melo we will be all set to tank. Just wish we had done it a year earlier. Watching Ball tear up the summer league as a Laker is painful. I really like Fox too...
it's funny  
Enzo : 7/18/2017 3:52 pm : link
the point guard position is loaded at it's highest levels...but the universe of backup point guards seems to be pretty mediocre.
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