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Giants 2017 Positional Breakdown: Linebackers

Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/17/2017 9:28 am
FYI...
Giants 2017 Positional Breakdown: Linebackers - ( New Window )
nice job as usual.  
Victor in CT : 7/17/2017 10:10 am : link
Goodson, as you stated, is key. If he can be average in coverage to go along with his stellar run defense, then they have a plus player at MLB for the first time since Pierce retired.

Not holding my breath on Kennard to break out after 3 years of injuries and meh play.

I think last year was an anamoly for Casaillas. I hope I'm wrong.
The key line in the write up is  
Jimmy Googs : 7/17/2017 10:21 am : link
This group is lucky to be sandwiched between the DLine and Secondary.

While serviceable I am not as big a fan of Casillas as others. I think he still left a bunch of plays out on the field last season.

Kennard should be lifting his game up far more than he is too. Maybe that's all there is though?

Still need a bit of a crazed dog out there at starting LB but we do t have that guy yet.

Backups, imo, should always be young guys with athleticism and hunger but not the experience. But on the Giants, we seem to settle with giving ST Coach a few faces he recognizes.

Rd 1 this year was my athletic TE. Next year it will be my athletic LB.
Nice comments from LB Coach Bill McGovern.  
BigBlueWhale : 7/17/2017 10:22 am : link
He strikes me as a solid coach, whereas Hermann came off as a bumbling boob. Seemed like a good guy to have at a BBQ but my goodness, he couldn't communicate a thought clearly to save his life.

Perhaps I'm way off base, but I think McGovern is a reason for our improved LB play across the board. He makes a great point about Goodson - they know he can stuff the run. He's a load. What he has to prove is lining up the D, play recognition, making checks and mental warfare with seasoned QBs. His floor is Jasper Brinkley but he can be better than that.

It's anyone's guess as to how good, but his performance in those mental areas will dictate his success level even more than the physical. Nobody better to get him to understand than Pierce.

BigBlueWhale  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/17/2017 10:33 am : link
I got a bad vibe from Herrmann for some reason.... similar to Quinn.
How did Herrmann even survive the Sheridan firing?  
Big Blue Blogger : 7/17/2017 11:33 am : link
He was a Michigan old-boys-network hire in 2009. In hindsight, the defensive housecleaning after that season should have been more thorough. Retaining Herrmann in 2010 was weird, and probably had more to do with Coughlin than the incoming DC, Fewell.

Herrmann wore out his welcome in Ann Arbor before the Jets hired him. When Rex took over the Jets, Herrmann got lucky: Sheridan succeeded Spagnuolo, and threw his old boss a lifeline as Giant LB Coach.
I too keep waiting for Kennard  
giantgiantfan : 7/17/2017 2:05 pm : link
to have a breakout game.
Agree with Eric......  
Doomster : 7/17/2017 4:04 pm : link
But while the linebackers were not a team strength, they did play at a more respectable level than their recent predecessors. This is a polite way of saying, “Well, at least the linebackers didn’t suck!”

Let's face it, they are the weakest part of the defense....they lack coverage skills....they miss tackles....they are not good pass rushers....


Overall, there weren’t many big plays from this group, but they did a respectable job on a defensive unit that improved from dead last in the NFL to 10th in terms of yardage allowed and 2nd in terms of points allowed.

Yes, I think you would be hard pressed to count on one hand the number of big plays from this unit....I am sure there are way more, but outside of the 4th down stop, I think against the Skins, it's hard to remember any....



This group is lucky to be sandwiched between the talent on the defensive line and defensive backs.

The fact that Herz is still on this roster, says something about this linebacker group....Kennard has never materialized into the player we thought he would be.....While Casillas may have had his best year, it was average at best.....Robinson made a few plays last season, and stayed healthy....hoping for more of the same.....Goodson, is basically given the job, Like Thompson was last year, and Collins, the year before that.....let's hope we get lucky with him......

RE: BigBlueWhale  
Johnny5 : 7/17/2017 4:34 pm : link
In comment 13529965 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I got a bad vibe from Herrmann for some reason.... similar to Quinn.

I never liked the Hermann hiring, he was basically run out of Michigan before we picked him up from the Jets... and the Jets LB crew was not very fond of him from what I remember.
Well  
Fred-in-Florida : 7/17/2017 5:24 pm : link
That didn't give me any warm and fuzzies!

Hope Goodson can step up! Having Snacks in front of him isn't gonna hurt. All he'll have to do is fill in on running plays. Then bring in Robinson!



Theory of Relativity...  
grizz299 : 7/18/2017 2:49 am : link
It's top DE or top Lb'er, top CB or top LB'er.

You can't - in the day of the cap and finite resources - have it all...so you set priorities.
And relatively speaking this is the best group we've had since Belichek was coaching the 3-4.
One thing that is forgotten about Herzlich is that...  
Milton : 7/18/2017 5:21 am : link
...he isn't just a specials teams player, he is Kennard's backup. If Munson isn't a LB who can take on TEs in the running game, he isn't going to be Herzlich's replacement.
Another thing forgotten about Herzlich is  
Jimmy Googs : 7/18/2017 6:38 am : link
he is awful at actually playing linebacker.

So...if he has to come in as a backup, we will get awful LB play.
Whle this has been the best performing LB group in years  
g-baby : 7/18/2017 8:13 am : link
I am puzzled by the lack of competition brought in for the incumbents.

I'm high on Goodson (and it's tough to imagine anyone not being an upgrade over Kelvin Sheppard), but i'm surprised there's not a vet MLB to at least compete with him in camp.

I think Casillas's best role is as a sub-package player. While he did make some good plays this year, he also left a lot on the field. Poeple often cite his athleticism as a plus, but i think he is just smallish and semi-fast. There are countless examples from last year of Casillas's feet getting stuck in the mud while trying to tackle in the open field. He is more of a run and chase LB. I think WLB (along with the other DT position) will be the weakest part of our defense this season.

I thought Kennard played his most consistent football last season. I too am waiting for him to start making more splash plays. He is a load and very tough in the run game. I also don't think people are talking enough about how much time he spent last year with his hand in the dirt at both DE AND DT. I just hope he doesn't suffer from the Kiwanuka effect where the coaches spread his resources too thin and he winds up good at multiple things but not great at anything.

I think that with an upgrade at MLB, another year of McGovern's coaching, and the benefit of playing between two elite units (DL and DB), that the LBs will be at least league average this year, which is better than we've had in a while.

Also... I'm still shocked that we released Brinkley  
Johnny5 : 7/18/2017 8:35 am : link
And kept Sheppard last year. That was a head-scratcher.
RE: Also... I'm still shocked that we released Brinkley  
Jimmy Googs : 7/18/2017 10:12 am : link
In comment 13530786 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
And kept Sheppard last year. That was a head-scratcher.


Did he wind up playing for someone else in 2016? I don't think so but not certain.
RE: RE: Also... I'm still shocked that we released Brinkley  
Johnny5 : 7/18/2017 12:38 pm : link
In comment 13530876 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 13530786 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


And kept Sheppard last year. That was a head-scratcher.



Did he wind up playing for someone else in 2016? I don't think so but not certain.

Nope, I believe we released him in Sept right after the last round of cuts to 53. Still an FA. Now, to be clear I didn't think he was a world beater by any stretch, but I liked him much better than Sheppard. Not that my opinion matters to anyone but me... lol
If SLB Kennard "inches up his play a bit"; if Casillas is steady again  
SGMen : 7/18/2017 12:46 pm : link
and especially if MLB Goodson is a sizeable upgrade over what we had last year at MLB, we will be fine. No one is a probowler but there aren't many in this league right now outside of the pass rush guys.

Depth concerns me.
RE: RE: RE: Also... I'm still shocked that we released Brinkley  
Jimmy Googs : 7/18/2017 3:33 pm : link
In comment 13531064 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
In comment 13530876 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 13530786 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


And kept Sheppard last year. That was a head-scratcher.



Did he wind up playing for someone else in 2016? I don't think so but not certain.


Nope, I believe we released him in Sept right after the last round of cuts to 53. Still an FA. Now, to be clear I didn't think he was a world beater by any stretch, but I liked him much better than Sheppard. Not that my opinion matters to anyone but me... lol


Got it and understand. My point was the difference between the LBs we have playing and LBs that are not even in the league anymore is fairly minimal...they are all dogs with plenty of flees.
Agree with that  
Johnny5 : 7/18/2017 5:08 pm : link
Jimmy Googs
Giants LBs  
George : 7/19/2017 4:18 pm : link
were about a C+ group last year, and we had a good defense. Improve them - while keeping essentially the same cast as in '16 on the DL and DB - and this defense can be a top 10 unit.

I agree that Kennard and Casillas are serviceable, but nothing outstanding. My fear is that they'll regress in '17, either due to injury (the former) or age (the latter).

Goodson is the key. If he plays well, we're in business defensively: unfortunately, we have literally no data to go on here, so your guess is as good as mine.

And I hate that.
Isn't it hard to believe  
BigBlueWhale : 7/21/2017 10:18 am : link
Kennard was our best defensive player a few years ago?

He looked great - but it was because he was playing on the worst D I've ever seen in the NFL.
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