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NFT: Police brutality is about more than race

Greg from LI : 7/17/2017 9:39 am
This is why I get so frustrated when so many discussions of out of control cops get distilled down to "police hate black people": that can be true in some cases, but there's much more going on here.

Quote:
A 40-year-old woman who family members said called 911 to report a possible assault in the alley behind her home Saturday night was fatally shot by a Minneapolis police officer........Three sources with knowledge of the incident said Sunday that two officers in one squad car, responding to the 911 call, pulled into the alley. Damond, in her pajamas, went to the driverís side door and was talking to the driver. The officer in the passenger seat pulled his gun and shot Damond through the driverís side door, sources said. No weapon was found at the scene.


This was a unarmed 40 year old white woman in her pajamas. By the standard of race as the sine qua non of police shootings, she should have been perfectly safe....and yet she gets blasted from across the interior of a police car. That is, she was at the driver's side window and was shot by the cop in the passenger's seat. That's unbelievable.

Naturally, while the cops had body cameras, they were no filming. Of course they weren't.
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Greg, that's very true,  
Ira : 7/17/2017 9:44 am : link
but it's also true that a high proportion of these victims seem to be African Americans.
This  
ThatLimerickGuy : 7/17/2017 9:47 am : link
Is exactly what I was saying last week on Tbones thread.

We should always be outraged when civilians are unnecessarily killed by cops.

It is a victimization narrative and quite frankly racist, sexist, isolationist, and divisive to make it a white cop / black man issue.
Take a Look at the Minnesota Woman's  
Percy : 7/17/2017 9:55 am : link
Unexplained police killing yesterday, too (again with no cameras turned on).
Why don't we arm Police  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 7/17/2017 9:59 am : link
with less then lethal weapon. Why do they need have full blown guns. Why not a shock gun?
RE: Take a Look at the Minnesota Woman's  
Greg from LI : 7/17/2017 10:00 am : link
In comment 13529912 Percy said:
Quote:
Unexplained police killing yesterday, too (again with no cameras turned on).


Umm, that's the story I linked.
BLM is bad branding  
Deej : 7/17/2017 10:00 am : link
It just screams "this isnt a problem for white people".

I think there is probably a lot of racism within police forced (we hear about it from whisleblowers and people making complaints). But I suspect it is a symptom of a broader issue, the us against the civilians mentality that many cops take. The classic dick with a badge authoritarian personality type mixed with a bunker mentality and a high stress job.

Not all cops mind you. A lot of them are the grown up boy scout types, who are in it to help their community and do good.
RE: Take a Look at the Minnesota Woman's  
Keith : 7/17/2017 10:00 am : link
In comment 13529912 Percy said:
Quote:
Unexplained police killing yesterday, too (again with no cameras turned on).


It's a good question. Where can I find more info?
RE: RE: Take a Look at the Minnesota Woman's  
Deej : 7/17/2017 10:00 am : link
In comment 13529918 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13529912 Percy said:


Quote:


Unexplained police killing yesterday, too (again with no cameras turned on).



Umm, that's the story I linked.


But now it's two incidents so it's a pattern
RE: BLM is bad branding  
Greg from LI : 7/17/2017 10:06 am : link
In comment 13529920 Deej said:
Quote:
But I suspect it is a symptom of a broader issue, the us against the civilians mentality that many cops take. The classic dick with a badge authoritarian personality type mixed with a bunker mentality and a high stress job.



Colion Noir  
pjcas18 : 7/17/2017 10:08 am : link
says it better than I can, not just about police brutality, but about the media and race in general, the media prefers everything be a racial issue. this video might be political, but it's linked not posted so maybe it doesn't get the thread deleted.
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Maybe standards need to be raised to become a cop  
Elisha10 : 7/17/2017 10:10 am : link
.
don't disagree but  
bluepepper : 7/17/2017 10:12 am : link
I think you have to be cautious about promoting the canard that white folks would really be supportive of reform if only blacks weren't making a racial issue of it. Crime in this country is viewed by so many in racial terms and for those folks a few whites getting caught in the cross-hairs is a small price to pay for keeping blacks in-line.

RE: Colion Noir  
Chris in Philly : 7/17/2017 10:13 am : link
In comment 13529933 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
says it better than I can, not just about police brutality, but about the media and race in general, the media prefers everything be a racial issue. this video might be political, but it's linked not posted so maybe it doesn't get the thread deleted. Link - ( New Window )


NRA TV? Sponsored by Ruger? Seriously?
RE: RE: Colion Noir  
pjcas18 : 7/17/2017 10:15 am : link
In comment 13529941 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
In comment 13529933 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


says it better than I can, not just about police brutality, but about the media and race in general, the media prefers everything be a racial issue. this video might be political, but it's linked not posted so maybe it doesn't get the thread deleted. Link - ( New Window )



NRA TV? Sponsored by Ruger? Seriously?


It's a good video. he even says who paid for the video in the video for those who didn't read the opening credits, I listen to his radio show his podcasts, he's great.
The an improvement over the last NRA video I watched  
Ron Johnson 30 : 7/17/2017 10:21 am : link
Not much of an improvement though.
RE: don't disagree but  
njm : 7/17/2017 10:22 am : link
In comment 13529939 bluepepper said:
Quote:
for those folks a few whites getting caught in the cross-hairs is a small price to pay for keeping blacks in-line.


Please tell me this is a joke.

The siege mentality is a thing...  
Dunedin81 : 7/17/2017 10:26 am : link
This sheepdog nonsense and social media more generally don't help. But the public feeds this too, suggesting that an urban street cop and a rural process server are indistinguishable. That's laughable.

I'm not going too far down this road because I'm on vacation, but a little bit of perspective helps. These incidents are awful, but they're also awfully rare. More people die in a bad holiday weekend in Chicago, or in the average evening from opiate overdose, than will die in a calendar year from truly disputed police shootings. Does that mean we shouldn't care? Of course not. But people want more from law enforcement, better clearance rates on those homicidea, more proactive efforts to get drugs off the streets, etc etc, and then express outrage when more police contact results in officer violence.
RE: The an improvement over the last NRA video I watched  
pjcas18 : 7/17/2017 10:29 am : link
In comment 13529948 Ron Johnson 30 said:
Quote:
Not much of an improvement though.


I think they're targeting a more intelligent audience than you, no offense.
RE: RE: The an improvement over the last NRA video I watched  
Chris in Philly : 7/17/2017 10:36 am : link
In comment 13529961 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13529948 Ron Johnson 30 said:


Quote:


Not much of an improvement though.



I think they're targeting a more intelligent audience than you, no offense.


Well of there is one demographic the NRA is always going after it is the intelligentsia...
RE: RE: The an improvement over the last NRA video I watched  
Ron Johnson 30 : 7/17/2017 10:39 am : link
In comment 13529961 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13529948 Ron Johnson 30 said:


Quote:


Not much of an improvement though.



I think they're targeting a more intelligent audience than you, no offense.


I'm smart enough to know the reason they produce those videos.
Great point  
LCtheINTMachine : 7/17/2017 10:42 am : link
Where is Kaepernick to protest this shooting?
RE: RE: RE: The an improvement over the last NRA video I watched  
pjcas18 : 7/17/2017 10:45 am : link
In comment 13529970 Ron Johnson 30 said:
Quote:
In comment 13529961 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 13529948 Ron Johnson 30 said:


Quote:


Not much of an improvement though.



I think they're targeting a more intelligent audience than you, no offense.



I'm smart enough to know the reason they produce those videos.


Sure you are. What's the reason?
RE: RE: don't disagree but  
bluepepper : 7/17/2017 10:45 am : link
Quote:
In comment 13529939 bluepepper said:


Quote:


for those folks a few whites getting caught in the cross-hairs is a small price to pay for keeping blacks in-line.




Please tell me this is a joke.

Not a joke. Maybe not phrased the best but aggressive policing is supported by a lot of people who assume it will be largely directed at non-whites. A few cases of whites being impacted doesn't change their mind.
RE: RE: RE: The an improvement over the last NRA video I watched  
adamg : 7/17/2017 10:47 am : link
In comment 13529966 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
In comment 13529961 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 13529948 Ron Johnson 30 said:


Quote:


Not much of an improvement though.



I think they're targeting a more intelligent audience than you, no offense.



Well of there is one demographic the NRA is always going after it is the intelligentsia...


It's like the old saying, the NRA is the Mensa of the mouthbreathers...
For the same reason  
Ron Johnson 30 : 7/17/2017 10:56 am : link
they were disappointed in the result of the election. Duh
I have a unique perspective  
napoleon : 7/17/2017 11:01 am : link
Since I'm not black nor am I white. All of my black friends have been stopped by the police for essentially "driving while black" in places like Freehold, Wayne, Mahwah and the shore. No drugs, and usually no tickets. But they have been stopped for "not" coming to a complete stop or "not" signaling. Granted, these guys are not driving blinged out escalades blasting rap music. They are driving hondas or regular SUVs and are mbas, cpas etc. In college, a bunch of us were drunk near the Villanova campus, and the only one detained in our group was the lone black guy in our group, who was not loud or rowdy he was just walking back to campus at a late hour. I can understand the frustration that black people have with law enforcement.

On the other hand, I have several friends in the police force, as was my god father (NYPD) before he was killed coming home from work. I know what it's like to wonder if they are coming home from work or worry about paying your bills for 3 kids when my godmother was widowed.

I don't have an easy answer, but I wish more people could try to perceive the situations from both sides.
Cops have literally been conditioned  
Don in DC : 7/17/2017 11:09 am : link
to shoot first and ask questions later. If they feel the slightest concern about their safety, they have been encouraged to open fire.

Race plays a factor because cops are more likely to be afraid of a black man than pretty much any other demographic. It doesn't mean they hate black people. It means they are scared in that moment, and have been trained to react to fear with gunshots.


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RE: For the same reason  
pjcas18 : 7/17/2017 11:11 am : link
In comment 13529984 Ron Johnson 30 said:
Quote:
they were disappointed in the result of the election. Duh


Exactly you have no clue.

the video was created in response to national backlash to an NRA video where Dana Loesch speaks out about how the media tries to influence the public - especially on race issues.

it's relevant to this topic only to the point the media in general prefers issues to be racial because that makes it more controversial and it sells. Anything divisive sells.
If police have been conditioned to shoot first...  
Dunedin81 : 7/17/2017 11:23 am : link
Why do so few end in gunshots? Of millions of police/citizen encounters, of hundreds of thousands of warrants served and arrests, tens of thousands of Assaults on LEOs, why do a few hundred end in gunshots, and maybe 100 a year under what anyone but the decedent's mom claim are without justification?
it has escalated to ridiculous levels  
SHO'NUFF : 7/17/2017 11:23 am : link
both sides causing-effecting each other. just like when Jim Gordon warned Batman.
It can be both.  
Mike from SI : 7/17/2017 11:25 am : link
Police can have a brutality problem against everyone, and they can also have a brutality problem that disproportionately affects minorities.
RE: Greg, that's very true,  
Gmen1982 : 7/17/2017 11:26 am : link
In comment 13529896 Ira said:
Quote:
but it's also true that a high proportion of these victims seem to be African Americans.


What are the percentages of crimes/police altercations of each race? That needs to be taken into consideration.
And they can also have a perception problem...  
Dunedin81 : 7/17/2017 11:27 am : link
That no amount of community-oriented policing, no amount of outreach or restraint, can overcome anytime soon.
The issue is about prejudiced  
Rover : 7/17/2017 11:27 am : link
But not the kind of blatant, conscious "I hate *******" kind.

This is a function more bad training, and subliminal subconcious learned biases (i.e. like locking the door when you see a black person).
There were a good book I read called "BLINK" which describes it very well.

The solution is a lot more of a concerted effort, recognition, and training.
It's a useful point to remember  
Overseer : 7/17/2017 11:27 am : link
and should be sufficient impetus (as if there weren't enough already) for the public & its elected officials to explore why so many trained police officers are peeing their pants like toddlers at the first sign of even perceived danger.

It sounded, for instance, as if the cop in the Castile incident had post-shooting a Bavarofan sized piss stain drenching his uni.

This is deeply concerning and not okay.

One possible solution (to an admittedly extremely complicated & dynamic problem) is far more community policing. In urban/suburban areas, they should be walking around their beat x% of time so maybe they know Justine Damond or at least what constitutes a threat in a given community.

--

Pjcas: it's important to keep in mind that Dana Loesch is a massive jackass. Effectively a profiteer...someone who deliberately constructs a self-righteous caricature in order to manufacture a career as a "commentator". It's working (as it has for Coulter et al) since she gets gigs, but again one should remember that she is positively awful.

RE: It's a useful point to remember  
pjcas18 : 7/17/2017 11:38 am : link
In comment 13530011 Overseer said:
Quote:
and should be sufficient impetus (as if there weren't enough already) for the public & its elected officials to explore why so many trained police officers are peeing their pants like toddlers at the first sign of even perceived danger.

It sounded, for instance, as if the cop in the Castile incident had post-shooting a Bavarofan sized piss stain drenching his uni.

This is deeply concerning and not okay.

One possible solution (to an admittedly extremely complicated & dynamic problem) is far more community policing. In urban/suburban areas, they should be walking around their beat x% of time so maybe they know Justine Damond or at least what constitutes a threat in a given community.

--

Pjcas: it's important to keep in mind that Dana Loesch is a massive jackass. Effectively a profiteer...someone who deliberately constructs a self-righteous caricature in order to manufacture a career as a "commentator". It's working (as it has for Coulter et al) since she gets gigs, but again one should remember that she is positively awful.


I have no opinion of Loesch other than she's obviously more attractive than Coulter who looks like a skeleton with skin, but I did watch her NRA video about the media, and that's pretty much the first time I saw or heard anything about her and I felt like anyone finding offense or a racial divide with that video wanted to find offense or racial divide with the video.
Coulter was passable 20 years ago  
Overseer : 7/17/2017 11:46 am : link
She has a huge rack.

(If hate fucking is one's thing, of course...)
RE: Coulter was passable 20 years ago  
giant24 : 7/17/2017 12:02 pm : link
In comment 13530030 Overseer said:
Quote:
She has a huge rack.

(If hate fucking is one's thing, of course...)


Hate fucking?? WTF is wrong with you?
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