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NFT: Great article by Joel Sherman

brunswick : 7/17/2017 4:17 pm
On why Mets should consider trading DeGrom...

They need to revamp this team. Alderson doesn't have the cojones to make a deal like this...big difference between him and the other guy in town
Yup  
DanMetroMan : 7/17/2017 4:19 pm : link
Sherman's piece makes a lot of sense. Then again I'm pro-listening on any player. If a team wants to blow you away you do it.
deGrom  
ryanmkeane : 7/17/2017 4:21 pm : link
is just about the only reliable player we have on this team. And we're going to trade him? That would leave us with 1 (if healthy) ace at the beginning of next year.
Not only does he compare  
ryanmkeane : 7/17/2017 4:25 pm : link
trading deGrom to getting a great deal when selling a house, which makes zero sense, but he then says the Yankees would love deGrom. Sure Joel, I bet the Mets are just thrilled to trade their best pitcher to the Yankees, of all teams, for a few awesome prospects.

The Mets aren't trading someone like deGrom. It'd be silly to think otherwise. He's not a UFA until 2021.
Yeah I don't have any untouchables  
pjcas18 : 7/17/2017 4:26 pm : link
on my team, but if you look at a model like the Red Sox used it certainly seems easier to buy pitchers.

Sale, Price, Porcello, Pomeranz, Kimbrel (maybe more), all trade/FA's.

Cubs: Lester, Arrieta, Lackey, Hammel, Chapman, (maybe more) (all trade/FA's)

when big money teams act like big money teams they can trade a deGrom for "can't miss" prospects and contend.

if nothing else the Mets approach has shown pitchers break. they should be contending today, instead they're left worrying about the future of the franchise while 3 potential top of the rotation starters rehab or struggle due to injury recovery.

Mets problem  
ryanmkeane : 7/17/2017 4:29 pm : link
isn't talent, it's injuries. If the team sucked and had nothing in the pipeline, ok sure, maybe then you at least pick up the phone and listen until you say no thanks and hang up. If not for the wrath of injuries this team would probably be 500 or a few games over, and the thinking would be completely different.

Why in the hell would they trade a Cy Young caliber pitcher when they have talent in the minors? And another ace to boot if healthy? Why?
Let the Dodgers and Astros battle it out for DeGrom  
Shecky : 7/17/2017 4:32 pm : link
And all it takes is another AL/NL team to enter the mix before they start bending a bit more. If it gets hot enough, Sandy is in his element pumping the brakes on trade talks when he isn't FORCEDt make a trade as a seller. The only way DeGrom moves is if it's an offer you can't resist. And I personally think it can get close...
I  
DanMetroMan : 7/17/2017 4:37 pm : link
hope the Mariners make a move for Duda. Their system has thinned out but I could find a deal.
deGrom isn't the guy who should be shipped.  
Beezer : 7/17/2017 4:38 pm : link
Bruce. Flores. Granderson. Walker. TDN. Harvey. Lugo.

Not deGrom.
DeGrom is 29  
brunswick : 7/17/2017 4:40 pm : link
and pitchers are so fragile it's makes a ton of sense. I understand you would have Thor at the top of the rotation and nothing else (Matz is a #3 at best). The Mets are in a precarious situation right now with the Nats who are going to be good for a while and the Braves trending in the right direction. This is one opportunity where Alderson needs to get it right. There will be no shortage of interested parties.
Here's why I don't trade deGrom  
Chris684 : 7/17/2017 4:42 pm : link
First off, this isnt a total rebuild. You're not talking about the closing of any window. In fact, you might be looking at the opposite with a positional youth movement about to take place and tons of veteran money coming off the books. And, oh by the way, the team's best player is locked into a multi-year deal.

Rosario will be here. Smith is the very near future at 1B. Conforto should be assuming his every day role in RF. You still have Flores, TJ Rivera, Nimmo and Lagares to compete for playing time next season. Bruce, Reyes, Cabrera, Duda, Grandy, Walker and their salaries are all either gone or hopefully gone.

The rotation has underwhelmed but mostly because of injury which is the larger issue here. This team can absolutely bounce back with better health/a more competent training staff and a solid offseason.

deGrom and Syndergaard still provide the best 1-2 top of the rotation in all of baseball and would allow Matz, Wheeler, Lugo and Gsellman plus FA reinforcements to round out the rotation. Unfortunately, I do think Harvey's career is just about over.

To me, if you trade deGrom, you better trade every other veteran on this roster including YC because it's almost a total tear down at that point, which is not what we need.
DeGrom should be available for an overpay  
Deej : 7/17/2017 4:43 pm : link
but I wouldnt go out of my way to trade him. We got murdered with injuries. This team doesnt need to be selling off its good players to build for a future 3-4 years down the road. The future is 2018.
RE: deGrom isn't the guy who should be shipped.  
superspynyg : 7/17/2017 4:46 pm : link
In comment 13530358 Beezer said:
Quote:
Bruce. Flores. Granderson. Walker. TDN. Harvey. Lugo.

Not deGrom.


How many teams have been asking for these guys? Bruce maybe.
I understand. But they could plug in  
Beezer : 7/17/2017 4:51 pm : link
for a team with a need somewhere.

I agree about injuries being the issue. Not a fan of trading our best players. No need to panic.

Can't be buyers but that doesn't mean they have to be sellers right now, on a big scale. Just hold tight. Several pieces are in place from 2 playoff runs.
Curious what the reaction would be if Cespedes got traded?  
Shecky : 7/17/2017 4:51 pm : link
Just thinking out loud, what would your reaction to a rumor or trade of Ces would be?
Shecky that would mean to me  
Chris684 : 7/17/2017 4:54 pm : link
that the club is open to a total reset (outside of Thor and Rosario) and additionally, that the Mets don't trust YC health long term.
Matz  
DanMetroMan : 7/17/2017 4:56 pm : link
has been pretty awful. I wonder if they ever had a chance to sell high, I certainly would have supported such a move. Unbelievable how poor the farm has been this season, poor performance and injuries. Like a cursed season.
Harvey  
DanMetroMan : 7/17/2017 4:57 pm : link
reported no pain today, hard to really know what goes on with this guy. Often claims he's feeling good and then stinks. I think he's done but I certainly wouldn't non-tender him as some have suggested.
RE: I  
Shecky : 7/17/2017 4:57 pm : link
In comment 13530357 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
hope the Mariners make a move for Duda. Their system has thinned out but I could find a deal.


Would be interested to hear Capones take here. And I'd also love it if he chimed in on the Hampton situation.
my 2 cents  
Dr. D : 7/17/2017 4:59 pm : link
deGrom has been the only dependable, consistent (for the most part) pitcher, not just this year, but overall for the last 3 or so. Not to mention, very likable. Why the f*ck trade a guy like that? For prospects who might not pan out? Unless you're blown away, no f*ing way. And as others have said, this shouldn't be a total rebuild.

Yes he's 29, but he just started pitching in college. He probably has less wear than some pitchers a few years younger.

I would be pissed if they traded him.
The  
DanMetroMan : 7/17/2017 4:59 pm : link
guy I'd love to land from Seattle is Neidert (probably unrealistic) but he's pretty underrated likely due to his size.
RE: deGrom isn't the guy who should be shipped.  
BigBlueinChicago : 7/17/2017 5:11 pm : link
In comment 13530358 Beezer said:
Quote:
Bruce. Flores. Granderson. Walker. TDN. Harvey. Lugo.

Not deGrom.


In other words, they should only trade the guys who have no value on the market to many teams.
Trading deGrom would be a complete  
ZGiants98 : 7/17/2017 5:26 pm : link
reset. Not interested in that at all.

Mets can retool and be back strong next year.
Depends on how Alderson  
sshin05 : 7/17/2017 5:37 pm : link
feels about the team. Could potentially blow up the team or just re-tool and hope for a healthier team in the future.
I go completely the opposite....  
ZGiants98 : 7/17/2017 8:08 pm : link
I double down and go after Yu Darvish. The lineup is going to be littered with young talent next year... Thor, deGrom, and Darvish... round out the rotation with Matz, Wheeler or whoever... and you're one of the best teams in baseball if healthy.

RE: Mets problem  
djm : 7/17/2017 8:10 pm : link
In comment 13530346 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
isn't talent, it's injuries. If the team sucked and had nothing in the pipeline, ok sure, maybe then you at least pick up the phone and listen until you say no thanks and hang up. If not for the wrath of injuries this team would probably be 500 or a few games over, and the thinking would be completely different.

Why in the hell would they trade a Cy Young caliber pitcher when they have talent in the minors? And another ace to boot if healthy? Why?


This.

As a Yankees fan I think the Mets would be insane to trade this kid.
RE: Trading deGrom would be a complete  
Sammo85 : 7/17/2017 8:17 pm : link
In comment 13530411 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
reset. Not interested in that at all.

Mets can retool and be back strong next year.


It's going to take one hell of a retool. I can buy the starting pitching coming back strong a bit but the relievers are still trouble. Familia is a huge huge question mark now.

Sandy (if he's even GM still) has his work cut out for him. Mets need to fill 3B, C from outside the organization with significantly better all around talent and perhaps a 2B or determine who plays 2b (Cheech, Rivera?). Walker I don't think is coming back. Sounds like they may want Bruce to stay and keep Conforto in center for a couple years.

I like Nimmo as our 4th OF. He's going to play enough. I'm done with Lagares.

Mets can't afford a repeat offseason of very few moves.
I have no problem with the article  
ChathamMark : 7/17/2017 8:21 pm : link
You sell when the value is high. Point is if someone wants to OVERPAY for DeGrom you certainly entertain that offer. and I like DeGrom a lot...
I doubt they get an offer good enough, but anyone is tradable  
Eric on Li : 7/17/2017 10:09 pm : link
except Syndergaard probably. I'd bet a lot of money JdG is still a Met for the next few years, but I think the general gist of what Sherman is saying is correct. Sandy tried to build a team around lights out starting pitching and homers and, mostly due to elements outside of anyone's control (injuries), it just hasn't been a great recipe for regular season success.

If mostly equal in terms of talent, any GM would be crazy to not prefer position players over pitchers simply due to injury proneness.
RE: Curious what the reaction would be if Cespedes got traded?  
pjcas18 : 7/17/2017 10:13 pm : link
In comment 13530372 Shecky said:
Quote:
Just thinking out loud, what would your reaction to a rumor or trade of Ces would be?


Depends on the return, no one is untouchable for me, not a single player. I'd hate to lose Thor, but even he's been traded once already in his career.
keep DeGrom and Syndergaard as your top two ace  
spike : 7/17/2017 10:16 pm : link
and you roll with your position players including Cespedes and Conforto.

Just spend the money on quality bullpen pieces.

Not sure what you can get for  
brunswick : 7/17/2017 10:28 pm : link
Matz but would move him in a heartbeat in the right deal. He is so inconsistent and I just don't think he will live up to the hype he came up with. What's a fair return for Matz?
RE: Not sure what you can get for  
spike : 7/17/2017 10:30 pm : link
In comment 13530636 brunswick said:
Quote:
Matz but would move him in a heartbeat in the right deal. He is so inconsistent and I just don't think he will live up to the hype he came up with. What's a fair return for Matz?


Yep We can't trust Matz or Harvey.

Hopefully Gsellman can fix himself to be an acceptable no 5. Wheeler is our no 4. We need a no 3 starter
RE: RE: Trading deGrom would be a complete  
ZGiants98 : 7/17/2017 11:10 pm : link
In comment 13530514 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
In comment 13530411 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


reset. Not interested in that at all.

Mets can retool and be back strong next year.



It's going to take one hell of a retool. I can buy the starting pitching coming back strong a bit but the relievers are still trouble. Familia is a huge huge question mark now.

Sandy (if he's even GM still) has his work cut out for him. Mets need to fill 3B, C from outside the organization with significantly better all around talent and perhaps a 2B or determine who plays 2b (Cheech, Rivera?). Walker I don't think is coming back. Sounds like they may want Bruce to stay and keep Conforto in center for a couple years.

I like Nimmo as our 4th OF. He's going to play enough. I'm done with Lagares.

Mets can't afford a repeat offseason of very few moves.


The Mets have 60 million coming off the books. You better believe they are going to spend. I wouldn't even be opposed to bringing back Walker, Duda, Bruce, and Reed or at least some combination of them. Sewald has emerged this year. We'll definitely need a couple bullpen arms and if we lose Reed a top guy but it's not impossible.
Makes no sense to deal Matz (or Wheeler)  
MetsAreBack : 7/18/2017 9:05 am : link
They are young pitchers struggling with consistency, especially coming off another major injury. News at 11.

Maybe the Nats should have blown things up when they missed the playoffs (including WC) two out of three years. Or dumped Gio Gonzalez when he was struggling to get through 6 innings because of terrible control.

Its been a terrible year and we'll miss the playoffs for the first time since 2014. Wah.

Deal some of these hitter vets (I recognize outside of Duda and Bruce, we likely won't get future chips that can help us in return), get the kids some at-bats down the stretch, and start building towards a better 2018.
And yeah, the biggest issues to me are Harvey and Cespedes  
MetsAreBack : 7/18/2017 9:09 am : link
Harvey - i just think we're stuck. You'd get pennies on the dollar, much like Shelby Miller in Arizona. Might as well keep him and hope he can share our 5th rotation spot next year.

Cespedes - its clearly become a lost year for him. Does he want to be a baseball player or body builder going forward? Barring a complete change in his offseason regimen and a mea culpa and some humility on his part, he won't justify his contract going forward.
Amazing  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 9:22 am : link
Dunn an absolutely pathetic season

Humphreys breakout... elbow issues
Szapucki the best P prospect in the system... elbow issues
Now Molina.

Truly disastrous overall season the farm. Some bright spots obviously but wow.
And if the Mets trade deGrom,  
Section331 : 7/18/2017 9:32 am : link
Sherman will be the first guy to squeal. I don't have a problem with moving Jake, but it better be an overpay from our trading partners.
The way I look at the pitching is  
Chris684 : 7/18/2017 9:33 am : link
Thor and deGrom at the top. They need to be left alone at the top of this rotation.

I think Matz has an outside shot of being that 3rd horse but with constant injuries and his performance lately, I'm getting worried.

You hope that some combination of Wheeler, Lugo and Gsellman can hold down the back end of the rotation.

Harvey is pretty much a lost cause.

They need to shop for a reliable option to eat innings and can potentially slot in the rotation anywhere from 3-5.
Loved  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 9:35 am : link
Gselly last year but given the fact he had zero track record of being that good I think it's fair to question him until proven otherwise.
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