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LT selected first in all-time NFL draft

ChathamMark : 7/17/2017 8:43 pm
Peter King hosted this for Monday Morning Quarterback. 23,000 players overall. Can't say I disagree. The panel of voters:

• Ernie Accorsi, former GM of the Colts, Browns and Giants (Ring of Honor).
• Gil Brandt, father of modern football scouting. Has worked in NFL for the past 58 years.
• Joel Bussert, for 40 years the NFL’s vice president of player personnel.
• Dan Fouts, Hall of Fame quarterback, current Pro Football Hall of Fame voter.
• Rick Gosselin, longtime pro football columnist, and king of the mock draft.
• Joe Horrigan, Pro Football Hall of Fame executive vice president and chief archivist.
• Peter King, 33-year pro football writer, editor-in-chief of The MMQB and Hall of Fame voter.
• Bob McGinn, who just finished a 38-year run covering the Green Bay Packers.
• Bill Polian, six-time Executive of the Year and a Pro Football Hall of Fame GM.
• John Turney, editor of Pro Football Journal and respected football historian.
• Ron Wolf, architect of three NFL playoff teams, and Pro Football Hall of Fame GM.
• John Wooten, 10-year NFL guard, 23-year NFL scout, head of The Fritz Pollard Alliance.
Link - ( New Window )
Before you look:  
Motley Two : 7/17/2017 8:50 pm : link
Anybody wanna guess who Accorsi selected with his 1st pick?
RE: Before you look:  
Diver_Down : 7/17/2017 8:52 pm : link
In comment 13530542 Motley Two said:
Quote:
Anybody wanna guess who Accorsi selected with his 1st pick?


Johnny Unitas?
RE: Before you look:  
Big Blue '56 : 7/17/2017 8:53 pm : link
In comment 13530542 Motley Two said:
Quote:
Anybody wanna guess who Accorsi selected with his 1st pick?


Elway or Eli
RE: RE: Before you look:  
Big Blue '56 : 7/17/2017 8:53 pm : link
In comment 13530544 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 13530542 Motley Two said:


Quote:


Anybody wanna guess who Accorsi selected with his 1st pick?



Johnny Unitas?


Unitas was never drafted
Here's the actual link to the draft  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 7/17/2017 8:55 pm : link
..
All Time Draft - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: Before you look:  
Diver_Down : 7/17/2017 8:59 pm : link
In comment 13530546 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13530544 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


In comment 13530542 Motley Two said:


Quote:


Anybody wanna guess who Accorsi selected with his 1st pick?



Johnny Unitas?



Unitas was never drafted


The all-time draft is from all players. Their "draft" didn't have restrictions who was eligible. I still didn't look at any of the links as I find these "lists" as pointless filler. I remember Ernie raving about Johnny so I guessed.
Jim Brown picked after  
section125 : 7/17/2017 9:00 pm : link
Ray Guy. GTFO
RE: Jim Brown picked after  
mfsd : 7/17/2017 9:05 pm : link
In comment 13530555 section125 said:
Quote:
Ray Guy. GTFO


By Dan Fouts. In round 1. Which just makes a mockery of the whole thing
RE: RE: RE: RE: Before you look:  
Motley Two : 7/17/2017 9:28 pm : link
In comment 13530554 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 13530546 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 13530544 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


In comment 13530542 Motley Two said:


Quote:


Anybody wanna guess who Accorsi selected with his 1st pick?



Johnny Unitas?



Unitas was never drafted



The all-time draft is from all players. Their "draft" didn't have restrictions who was eligible. I still didn't look at any of the links as I find these "lists" as pointless filler. I remember Ernie raving about Johnny so I guessed.


Actually Unitas is a really good guess, but it was Elway.
He probably flipped a coin.
hmm  
madhatter9382 : 7/17/2017 9:31 pm : link
dan fouts took a punter and a kicker within the first 4 rounds and he has a hall of fame vote?


scary
Unitas was already taken  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 7/17/2017 9:34 pm : link
The Ray Guy pick is a joke though.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Before you look:  
Big Blue '56 : 7/17/2017 9:34 pm : link
In comment 13530554 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 13530546 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 13530544 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


In comment 13530542 Motley Two said:


Quote:


Anybody wanna guess who Accorsi selected with his 1st pick?



Johnny Unitas?



Unitas was never drafted



The all-time draft is from all players. Their "draft" didn't have restrictions who was eligible. I still didn't look at any of the links as I find these "lists" as pointless filler. I remember Ernie raving about Johnny so I guessed.


Pointless filler. Agreed
RE: Jim Brown picked after  
B in ALB : 7/17/2017 9:36 pm : link
In comment 13530555 section125 said:
Quote:
Ray Guy. GTFO


That's something a brain injured wack job would do.
Fout's draft  
allstarjim : 7/17/2017 9:41 pm : link
Is hilarious. He couldn't have been taking that seriously and I think is trolling everyone.

He pretty much killed his chances of ever getting a GM job, if we was ever interested in that line of work.
If this was a serious draft  
WillVAB : 7/17/2017 10:16 pm : link
Too many old school players taken way too early.

I know there's plenty of older fans with a sense of nostalgia towards a lot of players from the 70s and before -- the reality is most wouldn't be athletic enough to even play in the NFL today.
RE: If this was a serious draft  
Motley Two : 7/17/2017 10:35 pm : link
In comment 13530623 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Too many old school players taken way too early.

I know there's plenty of older fans with a sense of nostalgia towards a lot of players from the 70s and before -- the reality is most wouldn't be athletic enough to even play in the NFL today.


Yep. Depending on the position, I might look a little further back at some guys. Marino/Elway would probably be my cut off at QB.

For WR, I'm probably not looking at anybody pre Randy Moss.
So no Jerry Rice?  
allstarjim : 7/17/2017 11:12 pm : link
Receivers of the 80's, the greats anyway, would absolutely be just as great today.

If you go back to the 50's and 60's though, I would agree. Many of them would not be good players today.

Andy Robustelli was a great for his time, but nobody is playing DE in the NFL today at 230 lbs.
RE: So no Jerry Rice?  
Motley Two : 7/17/2017 11:20 pm : link
In comment 13530719 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Receivers of the 80's, the greats anyway, would absolutely be just as great today.

If you go back to the 50's and 60's though, I would agree. Many of them would not be good players today.

Andy Robustelli was a great for his time, but nobody is playing DE in the NFL today at 230 lbs.


I think Rice at his best could still be a productive player in today's NFL, but I don't think he'd be a stud. Of course no way to know for sure, it's kind of fun to think about in the absence of the season, but I can't ignore size/speed.

There are average CBs playing now who are bigger & faster than Rice. Today's WR usually need to be one or the other, bigger or faster than the CBs defending them.
You must be about 25 years old.  
allstarjim : 7/18/2017 2:44 am : link
I saw Rice play, he would've been dominating today.

It's like saying L.T. would've been "just ok" these days.

That's just silly.
If the best of the best from the 50's and 60's were growing up in  
wgenesis123 : 7/18/2017 4:09 am : link
this day and age, would they not be bigger stronger and faster?
Motley two comments regarding older players  
joeinpa : 7/18/2017 6:41 am : link
Is an example of the disrespect often shown older athletes by so many people who watch sports today.

...  
christian : 7/18/2017 7:25 am : link
Human evolution hasn't changed drastically in 50 years. The population size, training, nutrition, medicine and PEDs have.

Talent is talent, and the top tier guys from the past would have gone through the process of modern athletics and come out just as bigger and faster.

The same could be said of modern guys going back in time. How would your modern NFL superstar fair without designer drugs, massage therapy, and a personal chef, playing on an unheated field with a tin can helmet?
RE: You must be about 25 years old.  
Motley Two : 7/18/2017 7:28 am : link
In comment 13530753 allstarjim said:
Quote:
I saw Rice play, he would've been dominating today.

It's like saying L.T. would've been "just ok" these days.

That's just silly.


Actually a day shy of 40. For what MMQB did here, where they got got to select two WR, I'm still gonna target guys like Julio, Megatron, Moss, OBJ, first.
RE: ...  
Moondawg : 7/18/2017 8:43 am : link
In comment 13530767 christian said:
Quote:
Human evolution hasn't changed drastically in 50 years. The population size, training, nutrition, medicine and PEDs have.

Talent is talent, and the top tier guys from the past would have gone through the process of modern athletics and come out just as bigger and faster.


Yes.
Hate to say it, Tom Brady would be my pick...  
x meadowlander : 7/18/2017 9:14 am : link
...I think he's the best player the league has ever had - and longevity is part of that choice.

RE: Jim Brown picked after  
HoustonGiant : 7/18/2017 9:31 am : link
In comment 13530555 section125 said:
Quote:
Ray Guy. GTFO


I was thinking "P" meant something else.....WTF???
Bo Jackson got drafted in round 20  
Deej : 7/18/2017 9:40 am : link
Played fewer games than Odell. Yet Odell wasnt drafted? So Im to believe that Fouts, who drafted Bo Jackson, really thinks John Jefferson was a better player than Odell? Same question, Charlie Joiner? Silly.
Rice would shit all over the NFL today  
djm : 7/18/2017 9:49 am : link
why wouldn't he? Matter of fact, he'd be even better today because he dominated the sport when the sport wasn't tilted in the WRs favor.

Let's not even bother with the size speed comparisons of today vs yesterday. Unfair to do so. Those guys that dominated the game would also reap the benefits of today just like today's athlete does. Rice would also be bigger and stronger.
How about the selection...  
Dan in the Springs : 7/18/2017 9:55 am : link
Of Tony Dungy before little Bill?
Put it this way..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/18/2017 9:58 am : link
any draft that has Landeta, John Carney and Morten Andersen drafted and no Odell is not really one to discuss in any seriousness.
RE: Rice would shit all over the NFL today  
Motley Two : 7/18/2017 10:02 am : link
In comment 13530845 djm said:
Quote:
why wouldn't he? Matter of fact, he'd be even better today because he dominated the sport when the sport wasn't tilted in the WRs favor.

Let's not even bother with the size speed comparisons of today vs yesterday. Unfair to do so. Those guys that dominated the game would also reap the benefits of today just like today's athlete does. Rice would also be bigger and stronger.


Sure, if he could grow to 6'4" and start clocking 4.25 on his 40's. Otherwise I'll stick with Moss
RE: How about the selection...  
Motley Two : 7/18/2017 10:04 am : link
In comment 13530854 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
Of Tony Dungy before little Bill?


That's just gross.
Guys like Butkus would still dominate today  
PatersonPlank : 7/18/2017 10:04 am : link
They would have benefited from the newer training and "drug" methods like everyone else, so this "bigger and stronger" crap would be irrelevant.

And to think Elway and Marino wouldn't be the same superstars now is laughable. Hell there are some teams that would take Marino right now at 55 years old (see Jets).
Dan Fouts clearly has taken too many shots to the head.  
Section331 : 7/18/2017 10:27 am : link
Ray Guy in the first and Jan Stenerud in the 4th? Maybe he's trying to tank to get the first pick next year.
You can't just assume  
WillVAB : 7/18/2017 10:34 am : link
A guy from the 50s or 60s will be 6'5" and run well because he was born decades later.

If you could teleport the player to any era, would he enjoy the same success? I know Michael Strahan would have a great career in any era. Andy Robustelli at 6'1" 230 lbs wouldn't even be on Reese's board today.

The skill guys from the past may transcend eras but definitely not OL/DL. They just don't have the size/athleticism to compete today.
RE: Rice would shit all over the NFL today  
Deej : 7/18/2017 10:47 am : link
In comment 13530845 djm said:
Quote:
why wouldn't he? Matter of fact, he'd be even better today because he dominated the sport when the sport wasn't tilted in the WRs favor.

Let's not even bother with the size speed comparisons of today vs yesterday. Unfair to do so. Those guys that dominated the game would also reap the benefits of today just like today's athlete does. Rice would also be bigger and stronger.


I think everyone would be stronger/faster. But I see no reason to believe that the gains from modern conditions would be distributed evenly. So maybe Rice gets excess gains, runs 4.4, and is even better. Maybe he doesnt get a lot faster, and loses ground to modern CBs. Maybe modern defenses are better adept at stopping WC offense elements. It's easier to see this conundrum with linemen -- would you just assume that Jim Ringo, a 6-1, 235 lbs all-time center would be 6-4, 300+ if he played today? Gene Upshaw was 255 -- how good would be be with another 60 or 70 lbs? Maybe another man would be the transcendent player at that size. Too much of a guessing game.

I think you have to evaluate guys within their era, and then adjust for era-specific factors (how the game was being played, rules, ebbs and flows of overall talent levels etc.). I think Rice would be really good, maybe the best in the NFL. But Im not sure he would be.
RE: How about the selection...  
TyreeHelmet : 7/18/2017 10:56 am : link
In comment 13530854 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
Of Tony Dungy before little Bill?


Most overrated coach of all time. Unbelievable Dungy is in the hall of fame.
RE: RE: Rice would shit all over the NFL today  
djm : 7/18/2017 11:02 am : link
In comment 13530860 Motley Two said:
Quote:
In comment 13530845 djm said:


Quote:


why wouldn't he? Matter of fact, he'd be even better today because he dominated the sport when the sport wasn't tilted in the WRs favor.

Let's not even bother with the size speed comparisons of today vs yesterday. Unfair to do so. Those guys that dominated the game would also reap the benefits of today just like today's athlete does. Rice would also be bigger and stronger.



Sure, if he could grow to 6'4" and start clocking 4.25 on his 40's. Otherwise I'll stick with Moss


Cool...I will take the WR that didn't quit in the NFC Championship game and wasn't dumped more than once in the middle of his career. You take the big guy. I will take the best guy.
RE: RE: How about the selection...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/18/2017 11:07 am : link
In comment 13530922 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 13530854 Dan in the Springs said:


Quote:


Of Tony Dungy before little Bill?



Most overrated coach of all time. Unbelievable Dungy is in the hall of fame.


Comical. In what world is Tony Freaking Dungy a better coach than Belichick? Belichick is the best coach of my lifetime. Dungy might be the most overrated coach of my lifetime.
RE: RE: RE: Rice would shit all over the NFL today  
Motley Two : 7/18/2017 11:11 am : link
In comment 13530936 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13530860 Motley Two said:


Quote:


In comment 13530845 djm said:


Quote:


why wouldn't he? Matter of fact, he'd be even better today because he dominated the sport when the sport wasn't tilted in the WRs favor.

Let's not even bother with the size speed comparisons of today vs yesterday. Unfair to do so. Those guys that dominated the game would also reap the benefits of today just like today's athlete does. Rice would also be bigger and stronger.



Sure, if he could grow to 6'4" and start clocking 4.25 on his 40's. Otherwise I'll stick with Moss



Cool...I will take the WR that didn't quit in the NFC Championship game and wasn't dumped more than once in the middle of his career. You take the big guy. I will take the best guy.


Oh but I got Calvin on the other side, son! Your squad is doomed!
ummm  
feelflows : 7/18/2017 11:13 am : link
no Sam Huff??
Jerry Rice was 6'2" and played around 200.  
allstarjim : 7/18/2017 11:25 am : link
Not a huge receiver but it's not like he would be terribly undersized.

At age 40, he had over 1200 yards receiving and 7 TDs. Again, this was his AGE FORTY season in 2002. That's 2002, aka the year prior to Eli's rookie season.

He dominated because he was one of the best route runners ever and had the best hands in the league to go with insane football instincts, superior will to win and unmatched work ethic. All of that translates to today's game. Anyone who thinks Randy Moss, a quitter who could've been so much more was better than Rice, and I don't know what to tell you.

I don't care about bigger corners today. They had big corners back then too. Sure, there are more of them now. But Jerry would still beat them today because Jerry was going to beat everyone.

We aren't talking eons ago, Rice was dominant throughout the 90's as well.

Again, in 2002, 40 year old Jerry Rice, a lessor version of him, still put 1200 yards and 7 scores up on the league.

There were faster guys than him, there were bigger guys than him, he would not be denied.

I'm not going to assume his body type would be so different if he played today, my argument is he wouldn't need it to be. Maybe he'd be even better with modern training technology, but he'd still be better than anyone playing today because of the competitor he was.

The only guy that I would pause for is OBJ. And I still think he has work to do to clean up some things.
Jerry Rice is #1 WR  
WideRight : 7/18/2017 12:39 pm : link
If you want the prototype monster WR, go Calvin Johnson.
Beckham  
djm : 7/18/2017 12:41 pm : link
Rice, Harrison, Sharpe, Wayne and others weren't that big. All dominated.

Moss was a beast but Rice was better.
RE: Jerry Rice is #1 WR  
annexOPR : 7/18/2017 12:42 pm : link
In comment 13531065 WideRight said:
Quote:
If you want the prototype monster WR, go Calvin Johnson.


AMEN
Calvin Johnson is not in Rice's league  
Go Terps : 7/18/2017 12:48 pm : link
No one is. By every measure Rice is better than every receiver ever.
like I said on another thread  
djm : 7/18/2017 12:54 pm : link
Rice dominated the WR position like no other WR has before or since. He wasn't Gretzky but he did things at the position that didn't seem possible. The guy scored more TDs than EVERYONE and he did so from the WR position.

He was the most productive offensive player for close to 20 years! A WR!

No one will touch Rice. Never. And we're in a passing/receiving era.

It would be like a slugging center fielder averaging 50 Hrs and 300 avg for 20 years from the mid 80s through the 90s. I say CFer because that position doesn't typically outslug other positions much like WRs don't typically outscore RBs. Rice did.
better yet  
djm : 7/18/2017 12:55 pm : link
slugging those numbers from the mid 70s through the 80s. When slugging numbers were down.
RE: Calvin Johnson is not in Rice's league  
Motley Two : 7/18/2017 12:59 pm : link
In comment 13531083 Go Terps said:
Quote:
No one is. By every measure Rice is better than every receiver ever.


Except for Odell.
Practically unrelated, but  
lugnut : 7/18/2017 1:57 pm : link
Hard to believe the Bears were actually so bad when they had Butkus ('65-'73) and Sayers ('65-'71) at the same time. Best year was those guys' rookie years, when went 9-5. Best after that was 7-6-1, and there was even a 1-13 in there.
RE: RE: Calvin Johnson is not in Rice's league  
djm : 7/18/2017 2:31 pm : link
In comment 13531091 Motley Two said:
Quote:
In comment 13531083 Go Terps said:


Quote:


No one is. By every measure Rice is better than every receiver ever.



Except for Odell.


Fair point. Except this is a different era that caters to the passing game and oh yeah, Odell needs to maintain this pace for another 17 years! 17!
RE: RE: RE: Calvin Johnson is not in Rice's league  
Motley Two : 7/18/2017 2:43 pm : link
In comment 13531212 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13531091 Motley Two said:


Quote:


In comment 13531083 Go Terps said:


Quote:


No one is. By every measure Rice is better than every receiver ever.



Except for Odell.



Fair point. Except this is a different era that caters to the passing game and oh yeah, Odell needs to maintain this pace for another 17 years! 17!


Should be a breeze. He'll do it in 12!
hey if anyone is going to do it  
djm : 7/18/2017 4:04 pm : link
it's going to be a Giant.
As soon as I saw Jim Brown wasn't #2  
Matt M. : 7/18/2017 4:55 pm : link
I already had my reservations. #6? Ridiculous. Ray Guy taken #4, 2 spots ahead of him? Totally absurd and stop looking at the rest.
Moss  
Deej : 7/18/2017 5:10 pm : link
I do wonder whether there is a statistical analysis (WOWY?) of Randy Moss indicating that his mere presence out there made others more productive. I have no clue if it is true. But his long patterns consistently took the top off defenses, moving two defenders 20+ yards off the LOS, often award from the middle of the field. Did he open up room for other players in a way no one else did?
?  
huygens20 : 7/18/2017 6:44 pm : link
Where is Eli on the list?
RE: ?  
Jim in Fairfax : 7/18/2017 11:35 pm : link
In comment 13531575 huygens20 said:
Quote:
Where is Eli on the list?

Eli was not deemed Elite.
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