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NFT: Basement finishing advise please

superspynyg : 7/18/2017 9:24 am
I am going to start my basement within the next few months. I am going to be the "general contractor" Get quotes from different people for what I need done. This will save me about $10,000-$15,000.

So I have just over 1000 sq feet. The basement is already plumbed and Framed. There is also basic electric down there The following needs to be done:

AC and heat pump need to be installed wit ha new breaker box
Walls
Floor
ceiling
full bath needs to be installed (shower, toilet, sink)
wiring for recessed lighting in ceiling and add light switches.
wiring for tv/surround sound speakers
subpump drainage hole needs to be moved
trim and paint (which is last or second to last)
bar needs to be put in can be done later.


So what order should I go in. Do I do the wiring and electric before the walls?

Absolutely do...  
Chris in Philly : 7/18/2017 9:25 am : link
the wiring before the walls.

Make sure you use a vapor barrier...







You have to do..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/18/2017 9:28 am : link
all of the wiring and plumbing before doing the walls. Make sure you have all of the electrical connected where you want it and the plumbing for the bathroom completed before framing the enclosures (the walls).
No offense, but that's a pretty basic question  
jcn56 : 7/18/2017 9:29 am : link
Are you sure you want to GC this yourself? Might end up running you more anyway, not to mention come with a lot more headaches and mistakes.
By the way..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/18/2017 9:32 am : link
jcn has an excellent point.

What you "think" you'll be saving by serving as your own GC isn't really what you'll be saving. Hiring a general contractor will get you lower prices than any quote you ask for - because they already know what the cost will be and mark it up. Also, a good GC knows who can do quality work - you'll be playing Russian Roulette just based on quotes.

One of my best friends is a GC and he'll get a price that is 25% or lower than any quote a layman will receive.
Are you getting permits from your town  
giant24 : 7/18/2017 9:32 am : link
I didnt for mine but was on the fence because I have heard differing stories about issues when selling your house. Have heard some towns won't issue a CO if there arent permits but then read a bunch of people who said they had no problem selling without permits.
That savings number does look a little high  
Motley Two : 7/18/2017 9:40 am : link
for just over 1,000 sqft.

You do have a pretty full list though. Any of the task you think you could handle yourself? Flooring, paint & trim?
Do you need AC  
pjcas18 : 7/18/2017 9:41 am : link
in the basement? My basement is cool all the time, even without A/C, could be a waste to have it installed (if it costs more) if you live in the Northeast. Only advice if you do get A/C try and get one that handles dehumidifying too, so you have a built in exhaust for the humidifier (assuming you have no sump pump).

bathroom necessary? that will be the most expensive part of the job. I did not get a bathroom installed though I have space for one if we decide to add one).

Just had my basement finished.

they did framing first, then electric and insulation (since I had no bathroom, but I think plumbing would be before electric), then drywall, then painting, then finish, then carpet.

only thing I don't know when it happens is ceiling, we have a drop ceiling like most finished basements, but it was already there.
RE: Are you getting permits from your town  
pjcas18 : 7/18/2017 9:44 am : link
In comment 13530822 giant24 said:
Quote:
I didnt for mine but was on the fence because I have heard differing stories about issues when selling your house. Have heard some towns won't issue a CO if there arent permits but then read a bunch of people who said they had no problem selling without permits.


My neighbor just sold his house and he had a finished basement(and a deck) without permits. He sold his house to a contractor and the guy was obviously pretty savvy and asked for the permits for the deck and the basement and when my neighbor said he didn't have permits the guy said he needed a credit (or reduced price) because technically by law they can force you to rip out any improvements that haven't been inspected (or pay to have them inspected which means opening up walls checking footing, etc.).

So I had a permit opened for mine and an inspection done and I don't even have plans to move, but the tax increase has been very minor for the improvements and now if something unforeseen happens I don't need anyone to have to deal with that shit.
RE: No offense, but that's a pretty basic question  
superspynyg : 7/18/2017 9:48 am : link
In comment 13530816 jcn56 said:
Quote:
Are you sure you want to GC this yourself? Might end up running you more anyway, not to mention come with a lot more headaches and mistakes.


I pretty much know which do first. But I always like to get seconds opinions to validate. I just listed all that I have to do but I was not sure if I could put up the walls and then do the bathroom later since its already plumbed.
I will try to get permits  
superspynyg : 7/18/2017 9:49 am : link
but most of the contactors I have talked to said they will get the permits themselves.

I can paint but I really do not have the time or the skill and patients to do the walls or floor.

My wife wants a full bath down there. SHe says non negotiable.
RE: Do you need AC  
jcn56 : 7/18/2017 9:50 am : link
In comment 13530833 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
in the basement? My basement is cool all the time, even without A/C, could be a waste to have it installed (if it costs more) if you live in the Northeast. Only advice if you do get A/C try and get one that handles dehumidifying too, so you have a built in exhaust for the humidifier (assuming you have no sump pump).

bathroom necessary? that will be the most expensive part of the job. I did not get a bathroom installed though I have space for one if we decide to add one).

Just had my basement finished.

they did framing first, then electric and insulation (since I had no bathroom, but I think plumbing would be before electric), then drywall, then painting, then finish, then carpet.

only thing I don't know when it happens is ceiling, we have a drop ceiling like most finished basements, but it was already there.


With the mini-splits and heat pumps it's not a bad idea to do it if only for mechanical dehumidification only. Even though some basements stay relatively dry, they do have a tendency to retain humidity, and having an AC unit spec'd appropriately for the space is a good way to keep that down.
RE: RE: Do you need AC  
pjcas18 : 7/18/2017 9:53 am : link
In comment 13530847 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 13530833 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


in the basement? My basement is cool all the time, even without A/C, could be a waste to have it installed (if it costs more) if you live in the Northeast. Only advice if you do get A/C try and get one that handles dehumidifying too, so you have a built in exhaust for the humidifier (assuming you have no sump pump).

bathroom necessary? that will be the most expensive part of the job. I did not get a bathroom installed though I have space for one if we decide to add one).

Just had my basement finished.

they did framing first, then electric and insulation (since I had no bathroom, but I think plumbing would be before electric), then drywall, then painting, then finish, then carpet.

only thing I don't know when it happens is ceiling, we have a drop ceiling like most finished basements, but it was already there.



With the mini-splits and heat pumps it's not a bad idea to do it if only for mechanical dehumidification only. Even though some basements stay relatively dry, they do have a tendency to retain humidity, and having an AC unit spec'd appropriately for the space is a good way to keep that down.


yep, dehumidification makes more sense than cooling, but they make dehumidifiers that have exterior exhausts that might be cheaper if you don't need cooling at all.

I didn't use one, I have a standard dehumidifier running into my sump pump but my house has baseboard heat, no AC anywhere (other than window units), and the mini-splits are expensive I've looked into them every few years and they're ugly and I can't pull the trigger for the 10 - 15 nights a year when we need AC.
I live in Georgia where  
superspynyg : 7/18/2017 10:55 am : link
AC is need from basically May to end of Sept. Its hot (90's most days) and humid. All the houses around here have AC for the basement so it basically a must. I can go with a small ac unit so that will save $$$.
If you have to run the dehumidifier more than occasionally  
jcn56 : 7/18/2017 10:57 am : link
then considering the increased cost of operation (the mini split is far more efficient), the lifespan (a dehumidifier probably won't last more than 5 years) and the convenience the cost is justified.

Smaller AC units have become more efficient, but most are still way behind your average heat pump unit.
If you're asking those questions  
Ron Johnson 30 : 7/18/2017 11:00 am : link
you may want to reconsider being the GC
RE: If you have to run the dehumidifier more than occasionally  
pjcas18 : 7/18/2017 11:05 am : link
In comment 13530924 jcn56 said:
Quote:
then considering the increased cost of operation (the mini split is far more efficient), the lifespan (a dehumidifier probably won't last more than 5 years) and the convenience the cost is justified.

Smaller AC units have become more efficient, but most are still way behind your average heat pump unit.


fair points, and to be honest I had mini-split quoted for my house since I don't have ducts, not my basement, and it was around 20k for a 5-zone system (and it didn't include the basement). I can run my dehumidifier for a hundred years and not reach that plus the $180 cost of the unit, but obviously that 20k is whole house so it's a silly comparison, - single zone maybe is what $4k? Still think dehumidifier into the sump pump is cheaper and it almost never even comes on in the late fall or winter. And I think the units are ugly, but in a basement I could live with it.

My cost was $2k for the basement, installed  
jcn56 : 7/18/2017 11:19 am : link
I might not have as big a basement (probably about 1000 sq ft), but I'm also in NYC where the cost of everything is higher.

I'm metered separately for the basement and figure my electric usage dropped about $20/month for the dehumidifier alone. At that rate, the ROI is under 10 years without considering having to buy additional units or the convenience of being able to keep the basement air conditioned whenever it does get hot.
GC here  
oghwga : 7/18/2017 12:25 pm : link
You're probably in over your head here. Do you know a good electrician, HVAC, framer, and plumber? Do you know how to schedule things so that no one gets in anyone elses's way?
Do you know about fireblocking, electrical code, egress, ventilation requirements?

Sounds like a lot of what needs to be done is there already but is it done right?

You can GC it yourself but it won't be easy and as others have said you may not save all that much. Make sure you get all the permits and all the inspections because otherwise you're at the mercy of trades about which you have little knowledge.
I went with Matrix Basement  
MotownGIANTS : 7/18/2017 12:25 pm : link
little pricer than drywall but the finish product is great and the peace of mind is even better.

Crown Moulding, Walls, Lights, Floors, Addtl Sump Pump, Plumbing and Shower

definitely get permits before starting or it will  
gtt350 : 7/18/2017 1:32 pm : link
bite you in the ass on the back end if you ever sell.
use the green waterproof sheet rock to be safe
Green sheetrock is NOT waterproof  
oghwga : 7/18/2017 2:02 pm : link
Regular drywall fine, purple a little better. Greenboard is garbage
Think you should strongly consider FMC's advise.  
Giant John : 7/18/2017 2:31 pm : link
And to answer everything that needs to be done in the walls should be done before sheetrock is applied. Why would you want to cut sheetrock that has been installed?
RE: Think you should strongly consider FMC's advise.  
superspynyg : 7/18/2017 3:54 pm : link
In comment 13531210 Giant John said:
Quote:
And to answer everything that needs to be done in the walls should be done before sheetrock is applied. Why would you want to cut sheetrock that has been installed?


Not sure I trust them...I got one company that my relator (who I love, got me a FANTASITC deal on my house) highly recommended and the quote was $89,000.

From what I read (and I have been reading a lot) is that it should cost around $35 a square foot on the lower end. I expected $50,000 with what we wanted, but that price was Crazy.
Do yourself a favor and get a GC  
bigblue1124 : 7/19/2017 9:34 am : link
When my wife and I bought our home 2.5 years ago we blew out our basement and redid it floors, hvac moved around not installed, walls, electric outlets and switches total 1300 sq feet. We did the work prior to moving in the house and I felt the same way being the GC. I will not do that again it’s a pain in the ass not only dealing with the permits, inspections (GET THEM) do not add space without permits it will fuck you long term if you decide to sell. The biggest issue I found was scheduling trades for work and timing of the project.

You stated you don’t have the time or patients for painting or the walls and floors why in the world would you want to be the GC? You will spend as much time scheduling and checking on things that you would to do the work. Do yourself a favor and get a GC you won’t save that much doing it yourself and believe me piece of mind and spare time for family is worth it.
another possible option  
steve in ky : 7/19/2017 11:36 pm : link
See if you can find a gc that will work on a fee basis and you still pay all the subs directly yourself. If you can you might get some savings, yet still have an expert overseeing the job.
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