Well not sure if it was discussed on the game thread last night...don't car. Bird to have surgery out 6 weeks. So Yanks are discussing a trade with the A's for 1b Alonzo. Jon Morosi reporting.
He is a UFA next season so I would not give up any of our top players for a 1 and possibly done player. What would you give up for Alonzo?
It is good to have both Holliday and Castro back in the lineup.
No inside info but my guess is they are looking for a Gray/Alonso package. I'm not a Gray fan but he's going to cost a guy like Rutherford or Frazier for sure.
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Sources: #Brewers, #Rays, #Yankees among the many teams in mix for #Phillies' Neshek. Talks fluid. No clear leader.
Even just Rutherford for Alonzo straight up would be piss poor for the Yankees and doesn't seem like something they'd do in the organization's renaissance of prospect appreciation.
And I say this as someone who isn't 100% dismissive of dealing a few of the kids. But dealing one of the brighter ones for a half season rental 1B in the midst of a by-far career year shouldn't happen.
I'd prefer hanging with Mr Cooper ten times out of ten.
Even just Rutherford for Alonzo straight up would be piss poor for the Yankees and doesn't seem like something they'd do in the organization's renaissance of prospect appreciation.
And I say this as someone who isn't 100% dismissive of dealing a few of the kids. But dealing one of the brighter ones for a half season rental 1B in the midst of a by-far career year shouldn't happen.
I'd prefer hanging with Mr Cooper ten times out of ten.
Of course injuries happen, but corner outfield seems like it's about to be locked down for the foreseeable future
I haven't watched him pitch a lot, but some of the things I've heard make it sound like the results so far are better than "the stuff".
Obviously he'd be a huge upgrade for the Yankees. I just like discussing these things because they're interesting. I think I actually prefer Gray to Fulmer. Fulmer stays close because of the age diff, but I think Gray has better stuff.
So I'm thinking that in 2020, our team will look like:
OF - Frazier, Rutherford, Judge
1B - Bird (Conner/?)
2B - Torres
SS - Didi
3B - Machado
C - Sanchez
DH - Canaan Smith (also can backup 1B, RF, and C)
Pitching: anybody's guess with Severino, Montgomery, Kaprielian, Chance Adams, and Sheffield fighting for somewhere in the 2,3,and 4 order. I suspect the Yanks will go all out for Shohei Otani who will be the Ace of the staff.
With that said, I don't think they move Rutherford. I think the A's would love to get OF Billy McKinney back after drafting him in the first round. McKinney has been hotter than hot lately.
I could see the Yanks trading Mateo, McKinney, and throwing in Abreu. I think Fowler could also be trade fodder. I'm really high on Tyler Wade and think he's being groomed to eventually be the Yank's super-utility guy and the future lead off batter, so I'd be surprised if they let him go.
Bottom line: I can't see them letting go of Rutherford. They have a lot of quality players in the minors that don't really have a genuine shot at getting to the parent club due to the logjam of even better players in front of them and they deserve a shot at playing in the majors.
Of course injuries happen, but corner outfield seems like it's about to be locked down for the foreseeable future
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But if Gray is involved, I'd seriously consider including Rutherford.
Of course injuries happen, but corner outfield seems like it's about to be locked down for the foreseeable future
Not a big Gray fan, so I don't like the trade. But I agree with you, with the glut of top OF talent throughout the Yankees' system, the Yanks are going to have to trade someone at some point in the future (i.e., Rutherford, Florial, McKinney, or maybe Frazier). Judge is a lock, then there is Hicks and these guys for the last 3 OF spots (2-starters and one rotational). Of course with the DH, one more could be kept in the rotation. I like Frazier, not sold on Hicks yet, and the other are all promising left handed sticks (which the Yanks love).
The only thing the Yanks love more than LH sluggers, are switch hitters. And it's been that way since Mickey Mantle terrorized pitchers. Throw in Roy White, Jorge Posada, Bernie, Beltran, etc., and the Yanks loved them. That's why Hicks is sticking no matter what. He will be in the OF rotation for a long time to come because he is the only switch hitter left on the team - and not to mention, he's a top notch player, both defensively and hitting. He's still young and just starting to get comfortable in the majors and a valuable piece of the Yank's future (IMHO)
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way should the Yankees give up Rutherford for ANY rental but if it takes a guy like Mateo I wouldn't think twice. He's become pretty overrated by prospect people. He's really stagnated. An Alonso or Duda should really help them at the right price. I could see Beane being high on a lottery ticket like Florial
Mateo may have stagnated at Tampa A, but since his promotion to Trenton AA he has been on fire. After 18 games he is hitting .365, HR-3, 3B-3, 2B-6, runs scored-20, SB-9
His BABIP in AA is .444...Keith Law really hammered him saying he just doesn't hit the ball with any authority. I'd sell high if he could headline a deal. He didn't even make BA's mid season top 100.
Thanks, Greg. I saw the headline yesterday over there but didn't have a chance to read. I just did. Definitely interesting. It's a strange dynamic because all of their other peripherals seem to indicate he's back to 2014/15, and the K-rate is better. Is it smoke and mirrors? Or does the ceiling go higher if he re-finds the curve?
Gotta love baseball.
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Fangraphs had an article up just yesterday on how Gray's stuff isn't what it used to be despite still pitching effectively. He used to have a killer breaking ball but it's league average now.
Thanks, Greg. I saw the headline yesterday over there but didn't have a chance to read. I just did. Definitely interesting. It's a strange dynamic because all of their other peripherals seem to indicate he's back to 2014/15, and the K-rate is better. Is it smoke and mirrors? Or does the ceiling go higher if he re-finds the curve?
Gotta love baseball.
The piece Greg referenced
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Fangraphs had an article up just yesterday on how Gray's stuff isn't what it used to be despite still pitching effectively. He used to have a killer breaking ball but it's league average now.
Thanks, Greg. I saw the headline yesterday over there but didn't have a chance to read. I just did. Definitely interesting. It's a strange dynamic because all of their other peripherals seem to indicate he's back to 2014/15, and the K-rate is better. Is it smoke and mirrors? Or does the ceiling go higher if he re-finds the curve?
Gotta love baseball.
He's never been as good as his rep. His best season he posted a 3.45 FIP (2015) which was good for 26th in baseball. Not really sure where he got this rep of being a potential ace.
Could Judge throw harder, IDK.?
So when it comes to cannons in the outfield, Hicks still has the best arm. Frazier doesn't appear to be a slouch, either.
I see him as a guy who keeps the ball on the ground and misses a pretty decent number of bats. A solid number two or 1A. A guy like him plus a free agent could really turn the rotation weakness into a strength for NYY.
If he didn't have question marks he probably wouldn't be available or the price would be completely prohibitive.
Nothing's to say it isn't prohibitive right now. As always, it's all about the price.
So I'm thinking that in 2020, our team will look like:
OF - Frazier, Rutherford, Judge
1B - Bird (Conner/?)
2B - Torres
SS - Didi
3B - Machado
C - Sanchez
DH - Canaan Smith (also can backup 1B, RF, and C)
Pitching: anybody's guess with Severino, Montgomery, Kaprielian, Chance Adams, and Sheffield fighting for somewhere in the 2,3,and 4 order. I suspect the Yanks will go all out for Shohei Otani who will be the Ace of the staff.
With that said, I don't think they move Rutherford. I think the A's would love to get OF Billy McKinney back after drafting him in the first round. McKinney has been hotter than hot lately.
I could see the Yanks trading Mateo, McKinney, and throwing in Abreu. I think Fowler could also be trade fodder. I'm really high on Tyler Wade and think he's being groomed to eventually be the Yank's super-utility guy and the future lead off batter, so I'd be surprised if they let him go.
Bottom line: I can't see them letting go of Rutherford. They have a lot of quality players in the minors that don't really have a genuine shot at getting to the parent club due to the logjam of even better players in front of them and they deserve a shot at playing in the majors.
Before the season I thought Harper was a legit target. Now? No way. Not with Judge performing the way he has. We have Frazier up now. Our OF all of a sudden looks pretty stacked. Machado is much more likely. Starting pitching is still the top priority imo.
And I'm not sure which "prospect people" are overrating Mateo at this point. Who are these people? Pretty much everyone on the planet has given up an Mateo being a top 30 type prospect. But that's ok, they gave up on Damchez too...
Before the season I thought Harper was a legit target. Now? No way. Not with Judge performing the way he has. We have Frazier up now. Our OF all of a sudden looks pretty stacked. Machado is much more likely. Starting pitching is still the top priority imo.
Agree. With the emergence of Judge, and and the other young OF talent the team has, its hard to imagine that Harper's productivity would be so much better than the Yankees' young guns to justify the $400M+ price tag that Harper will get.
And I'm not sure which "prospect people" are overrating Mateo at this point. Who are these people? Pretty much everyone on the planet has given up an Mateo being a top 30 type prospect. But that's ok, they gave up on Damchez too...
I see people on twitter unwilling to give up Mateo for Sonny Gray for example... you aren't landing a good SP for a headliner less than Jorge Mateo, lets be realistic here. Can't say "these 5 aren't available" and expect anything more than truly garbage SP. As for that Law note it's simply untrue in regard to Mateo. He had him at #55 in baseball in 2016.
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Before the season I thought Harper was a legit target. Now? No way. Not with Judge performing the way he has. We have Frazier up now. Our OF all of a sudden looks pretty stacked. Machado is much more likely. Starting pitching is still the top priority imo.
Agree. With the emergence of Judge, and and the other young OF talent the team has, its hard to imagine that Harper's productivity would be so much better than the Yankees' young guns to justify the $400M+ price tag that Harper will get.
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Frazier, Rutherford, Mateo and Torres. Not being snarky at all but what kind of SP would you expect holding back those 4? I'd suggest not much of one.
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Before the season I thought Harper was a legit target. Now? No way. Not with Judge performing the way he has. We have Frazier up now. Our OF all of a sudden looks pretty stacked. Machado is much more likely. Starting pitching is still the top priority imo.
Agree. With the emergence of Judge, and and the other young OF talent the team has, its hard to imagine that Harper's productivity would be so much better than the Yankees' young guns to justify the $400M+ price tag that Harper will get.
I used to hear he'd be looking at half a billion, but the latest stories say 650-750K for his services. To me, it's like A-Rod all over again, but at 3 times the money.
No way! I hope the Yanks have learned their lesson on handing out ridiculous contracts only to get stuck paying tens of millions a year for several years after the guy is no longer a stud. Let some other team pay out their ass for the guy. It's not like he alone can carry a team, but he would sure draw plenty of resentment from teammates who are having a better year than him and getting a tiny portion of the money he's pulling in.
Cameron is great with the numbers but his minor league opinions are laughable and when he had his mariners blog his trade ideas were off the wall.
I'd go something like Mateo/Florial + Austin + Tate for a guy like Gray (or someone of similar quality with a couple years of control).
Probably wouldn't be enough.
So it sounds like for you, Adams isn't off the table. That's how opinions work.
I don't claim to be an expert on any of these prospects. For me, NYY have struggled with pitching for so long that I'm loath to deal the closest-to-MLB ready good pitching prospect they've had in a number of years.
You could say "x prospect will never have more value than he does in a trade right now" about nearly every player and be right 75% of the time. That's just how baseball works. Low hit rates. That doesn't make it right to trade them all, just like it doesn't make it right to hold them all.
And like most of the other nonsense that you post, you would lose that bet.
I am not as concerned. At worst, the Yanks have found a #2- and possible a true #1- in Severino. Montgomery is at least a mid-rotation guy who has a floor of back of the rotation SP.
Adams should at least be a mid-rotation guy- could be more.
Caleb Smith was a SP through the system. I don't think he could maintain high 90's as a SP like he was throwing last night- but a mid-90's LHP with a change and a third pitch would be a plus in Yankee Stadium.
Things are never quite as dire as the sportswriters- who are DESPERATE for a big story to get clicks on- make it out to be.
I agree Phil. I've only been advocating considering including Rutherford or Florial for guys like Gray or now even Fulmer who are controllable for multiple seasons. For a rental? No way
I would note that as an aside, who here knew that Yonder Alonzo (the guys the Yanks are talking to the A's about) is Manny Machado's brother in law?
I think Alonzo finally got things to click this year- and might be a good DH and Plan B for the Yanks at 1B in 2018. So long as the Yanks don't give up high end prospects for him, I would make the deal.
I would hope that if a trade gets made, the Yanks deal from their SP surplus at the lower levels.
yanks getting hits on OF prospect blake rutherford. they want to hold onto him. doubt theyd trade him for a rental, even a good one (alonso)
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I guess we'll see
Frazier, Rutherford, Mateo and Torres. Not being snarky at all but what kind of SP would you expect holding back those 4? I'd suggest not much of one.
You're putting this all in a vacuum here. Just because someone wouldn't deal Mateo for Gray doesn't mean they wouldn't deal him for someone else. And yes, I'm aware that there may be some that don't want to trade him at all, but the simple fact is, Sonny Gray isn't a guy I'd invest much in. And maybe that person isn't even available this season. I would absolutely deal Mateo for the right SP. Fulmer for example, I'd give up much more. But you don't deal Mateo for Gray simply because Gray is the best of a bad bunch. If Mateos lost that much value, you keep him until he regains it.
No thanks to So my Gray. Has more to do with him than Mateo.
Mateo has his plusses and minuses (incredible speed - will steal a lot of bases), but he's not going to unseat anyone in the infield and the OF is overflowing. And Mateo showed some character flaws last year that didn't endear him to the front office. I'm not sure what his disposition is now, but I know the coaches weren't thrilled with his attitude.
Think Rickey Henderson, but without the power or bat.
"In nearly four months since first injuring my ankle, it had been increasingly frustrating to have only questions and no answers. All this time, I have wanted nothing more than to be out there playing the game I love as a member of the New York Yankees.
"My season is not over. I plan to do everything in my power to return and help our team win in 2017."
The phrase "accurate diagnosis" sure jumps off the screen a bit.
I do not believe we need to go send Rutherford for a first baseman; short term thinking imo.
Outside of a Michael Fulmer type, who I doubt is actually available and would cost both arms and a leg, I'd be willing to let this season play out with smaller moves like bullpen help and a cheap first baseman very close to the deadline.
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I wouldn't call him untouchable. In fact, I think it's more than likely that he gets traded. He does have value, though, and they're not giving him away for a rental.
Of any realistic long-term option out there, Votto would be my choice. His presence in the middle of the lineup would be amazing and he's a student of the game that would likely be a real benefit to the younger players.
But unless the Reds eat like $5mm+ per year, his contract and his age are prohibitive to the point I'd rather us go after a rental like Alonso.
I'd be very hesitant to trade Didi. Not so much Castro. Didi is a wonderful fielder with decent pop. Let Torres play 2B or 3B if he makes the team next year, and leave Didi at SS.
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Votto didn't have so many years left the Reds/Yankees would be a great match. Votto/Iglesias.
Of any realistic long-term option out there, Votto would be my choice. His presence in the middle of the lineup would be amazing and he's a student of the game that would likely be a real benefit to the younger players.
But unless the Reds eat like $5mm+ per year, his contract and his age are prohibitive to the point I'd rather us go after a rental like Alonso.
Votto likely isn't a HOFer thanks to the threshold for HOF 1b but if the guy played for a winning franchise he might well be looked as one. Career .966 OPS, 157 OPS= BEAST
The only way you get Blake is if its a blockbuster and DeGrom comes with him.
100% on a HOF trajectory IMO. One of the best hitters I've ever seen.
The Mets are going to do the opposite of what they should and focus on guys who are closer to the big leagues had he not been injured Fowler 100% is the kind of guy they would have focused on. With Wright done Andujar would likely be high on their wish list. At the end of the day I don't expect a deal between the two teams. Silly but true.
I'd hope not either, but the Fowler injury definitely disrupted potential trade plans. I think he was the most likely prospect to be dealt before that horribly unfortunate play.
At this point, I include Blake in a deal for Gray. The chance is stays good is higher than Rutherford, in reality...I am not saying we go all Dembrowski here, but we need to be realistic.
Just to see your head explore Greg
(Seidler writed for BP)
Jarrett Seidler @jaseidler 1h1 hour ago
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I would suspect that if the Mets are packaging multiple higher end pieces to the Yankees, theyre going after Rutherford
(100% not realistic in my eyes just wanted to poke Greg)
Judge
Hicks
Frazier
Fowler
Rutherford
Wade could also be considered in that group if you consider the IF spoken for among Didi, Castro, Torres, Mateo, Andujar.
Something has to give eventually. Certainly not suggesting that now is the time it needs to be sorted or that you force something and sell low, but something needs to happen at some point.
I don't think the Yankees will commit long-term to Hicks, and I wonder if Judge will be moved to first base or given more at-bats at DH to protect those knees. In other words, a lot can happen by the time the lower level studs start knocking on the door.
Judge
Hicks
Frazier
Fowler
Rutherford
Wade could also be considered in that group if you consider the IF spoken for among Didi, Castro, Torres, Mateo, Andujar.
Something has to give eventually. Certainly not suggesting that now is the time it needs to be sorted or that you force something and sell low, but something needs to happen at some point.
You can add Billy McKinney and Estevan Florial to that list of outfielders with the star factor and major league potential. Both have been on fire. And the Yanks also signed the top international outfielder a few weeks ago when they signed Everson Pereira out of Venezuela for 1.5 million who could be a 5-tool center fielder
McKinney was Oakland's 2013 1st round pick and their second highest prized prospect in their system when they traded him to the Cubs for Samardzija and Hammel.
But yeah, the Yanks have a slew of top outfielders and outfielder prospects chompin at the bit. Can play them all.
This is a good point, and I hope it's true. I appreciate what Holliday brings, but I do hate not regularly having that spot to give guys half-days off on the regular. It's especially needed now that there's a heavy hitting catcher around again.
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for Lucas fucking Duda.
Just to see your head explore Greg
(Seidler writed for BP)
Jarrett Seidler @jaseidler 1h1 hour ago
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I would suspect that if the Mets are packaging multiple higher end pieces to the Yankees, theyre going after Rutherford
(100% not realistic in my eyes just wanted to poke Greg)
Haha. I cannot imagine watching Rutherford killing for the Mets for a decade because the Yankees decided a half a year of Duda was a worthwhile price to pay. Holy Christ
The Braves would actually be a perfect trade partner. They don't have the "now" players I'd want (no thanks on Teheran) but they are loaded with arms in their system. I would absolutely deal Rutherford for some high upside arms. Only because of the log jam at the OF positions
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He was among my favorites for the Braves #3 pick last year. I wonder what it would take to land him from the Yankees. I am assuming Teheran but I doubt the Yankees would feel confident with him in Yankee stadium as he has struggled mightily at Suntrust park this season while pitching great on the road.
The Braves would actually be a perfect trade partner. They don't have the "now" players I'd want (no thanks on Teheran) but they are loaded with arms in their system. I would absolutely deal Rutherford for some high upside arms. Only because of the log jam at the OF positions
Agreed a Rutherford for Gohara trade would make a lot of sense for both sides.
I disagree. Didi has been nothing but stellar at shortstop. He's proven he can handle the bright lights of NYC and the stadium (which is a complete unknown as proven by history). Getting a solid fielding SS who can hit around 300 and knock in 20+ HR's is a luxury every team would love to have.
We have the best fielding SS in all of baseball in Kyle Holder, but he won't come close to putting up Didi's numbers, albeit, he's surprised somewhat hitting .290 and actually hit a HR that no one thought was possible.
Keep Didi unless Torres can PROVE he's a better defensive SS and will not melt under the lights of NYC like so many phenoms have done in the past.
Didi is one of my favorite players - reminds me of Yankee killer Dustin Pedroia of the Sox - kind of an ugly fucker who keeps his mouth shut and doesn't have an overblown ego. Simply plays his heart out and seems to always come through in the pinch.
SS Didi good defensive SS. Timely hits
3b Torres future star player.
SS Didi good defensive SS. Timely hits
3b Torres future star player.
By the way all still young. Castro is 27
SS Didi good defensive SS. Timely hits
3b Torres future star player.
What middle infielders do we have in the system who can take over in 5 years?
SS Didi good defensive SS. Timely hits
3b Torres future star player.
In his 7 full seasons Castro hit exactly .300 once, above .300 once, and below .300 5 times. Not sure why you think he's a lock .300 hitter. His career average is .282, and that's what I think one should expect from him every year.
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2b Castro. Can hit 300 and 70-80 every year
SS Didi good defensive SS. Timely hits
3b Torres future star player.
In his 7 full seasons Castro hit exactly .300 once, above .300 once, and below .300 5 times. Not sure why you think he's a lock .300 hitter. His career average is .282, and that's what I think one should expect from him every year.
He's also never had an OPS above .777 in a full season. His OPS this year has been .828. It's possible we're seeing peak Castro this season.
Disregard. Apparently they were talking about Todd Frazier. Damn Red Sox fans giving me a heart attack
Didi has never had an OPS+ over 100. Pedroia had only had one year below 100 and it was 99.
OPS+ Lifetime
Didi 92
Pedroia 114
OBP lifetime
Didi .312
Pedroia .367
Didi has never had an OPS+ over 100. Pedroia had only had one year below 100 and it was 99.
OPS+ Lifetime
Didi 92
Pedroia 114
OBP lifetime
Didi .312
Pedroia .367
I wasn't talking stats, I was talking the way they both play the game - hard nosed very play, professional and quietly get it done.
As a Yankee fan I'm supposed to hate the Sox, but I can admire players from other teams simply because of the way they play. I used to hate Pedroia because he always came through to beat the Yanks. But over time, I began to admire him for the way he played the game. I pretty much always have a game going on in the background throughout the summer as I'm working on something else. Certain players come to bat and I have to stop everything and watch them him. I used to do it with Will Clark, George Brett, Edgar Martinez, Tony Gwinn, etc. I do the same now for Pedroia which is saying something to stop everything to watch a 5'8" player bat.