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NFT: Yanks Talk 7-18 Non game thread

superspynyg : 7/18/2017 9:40 am
Well not sure if it was discussed on the game thread last night...don't car. Bird to have surgery out 6 weeks. So Yanks are discussing a trade with the A's for 1b Alonzo. Jon Morosi reporting.

He is a UFA next season so I would not give up any of our top players for a 1 and possibly done player. What would you give up for Alonzo?

It is good to have both Holliday and Castro back in the lineup.
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Clippard and if they want they can have  
xman : 7/18/2017 9:46 am : link
our manager Girardi. I would consider also payinf them to take Headley
A's  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 9:49 am : link
have been scouting Blake Rutherford
I think that they'd be nuts to give up Rutherford, unless it was  
yatqb : 7/18/2017 9:54 am : link
for a cost contained SP with at least #2 talent.
RE: I think that they'd be nuts to give up Rutherford, unless it was  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 9:55 am : link
In comment 13530852 yatqb said:
Quote:
for a cost contained SP with at least #2 talent.


No inside info but my guess is they are looking for a Gray/Alonso package. I'm not a Gray fan but he's going to cost a guy like Rutherford or Frazier for sure.
.  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 9:59 am : link
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Sources: #Brewers, #Rays, #Yankees among the many teams in mix for #Phillies' Neshek. Talks fluid. No clear leader.
Scouting Rutherford  
bigbluehoya : 7/18/2017 9:59 am : link
Would have to be as part of a potential Gray trade.

Even just Rutherford for Alonzo straight up would be piss poor for the Yankees and doesn't seem like something they'd do in the organization's renaissance of prospect appreciation.

And I say this as someone who isn't 100% dismissive of dealing a few of the kids. But dealing one of the brighter ones for a half season rental 1B in the midst of a by-far career year shouldn't happen.

I'd prefer hanging with Mr Cooper ten times out of ten.
RE: Scouting Rutherford  
Beer Man : 7/18/2017 10:07 am : link
In comment 13530859 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
Would have to be as part of a potential Gray trade.

Even just Rutherford for Alonzo straight up would be piss poor for the Yankees and doesn't seem like something they'd do in the organization's renaissance of prospect appreciation.

And I say this as someone who isn't 100% dismissive of dealing a few of the kids. But dealing one of the brighter ones for a half season rental 1B in the midst of a by-far career year shouldn't happen.

I'd prefer hanging with Mr Cooper ten times out of ten.
Not to mention Rutherford has been very hot at the plate as of late. I don't see Cash trading a top prospect for a rental. If he does, he needs to be second out the door (right behind Joe G.)
Not that interested in Alonso  
Kyle in NY : 7/18/2017 10:09 am : link
But if Gray is involved, I'd seriously consider including Rutherford.

Of course injuries happen, but corner outfield seems like it's about to be locked down for the foreseeable future
I  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 10:09 am : link
could see a Yankee shocker where they land Fulmer at a huge price
Now Fulmer is a guy I'd consider dealing some big names for  
Greg from LI : 7/18/2017 10:11 am : link
Like him a helluva lot more than Sonny Gray.
Too  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 10:14 am : link
bad JD Martinez has zero 1b experience. A monster deal for Fulmer/Martinez could put the Yankees over the top (with some pen help).
Have to love the way Fulmer  
bigbluehoya : 7/18/2017 10:20 am : link
Keeps the ball in the park, but I'm leery of his low K/9.

I haven't watched him pitch a lot, but some of the things I've heard make it sound like the results so far are better than "the stuff".

Obviously he'd be a huge upgrade for the Yankees. I just like discussing these things because they're interesting. I think I actually prefer Gray to Fulmer. Fulmer stays close because of the age diff, but I think Gray has better stuff.
My opinion - for what it's worth  
mavric : 7/18/2017 10:20 am : link
The Yanks are thinking long term. They are grooming a team for 2018/19 and with money falling off the books, they will add a stud or two (possibly Harper or Machado, and probably a pitching ace).

So I'm thinking that in 2020, our team will look like:

OF - Frazier, Rutherford, Judge
1B - Bird (Conner/?)
2B - Torres
SS - Didi
3B - Machado
C - Sanchez
DH - Canaan Smith (also can backup 1B, RF, and C)
Pitching: anybody's guess with Severino, Montgomery, Kaprielian, Chance Adams, and Sheffield fighting for somewhere in the 2,3,and 4 order. I suspect the Yanks will go all out for Shohei Otani who will be the Ace of the staff.

With that said, I don't think they move Rutherford. I think the A's would love to get OF Billy McKinney back after drafting him in the first round. McKinney has been hotter than hot lately.

I could see the Yanks trading Mateo, McKinney, and throwing in Abreu. I think Fowler could also be trade fodder. I'm really high on Tyler Wade and think he's being groomed to eventually be the Yank's super-utility guy and the future lead off batter, so I'd be surprised if they let him go.

Bottom line: I can't see them letting go of Rutherford. They have a lot of quality players in the minors that don't really have a genuine shot at getting to the parent club due to the logjam of even better players in front of them and they deserve a shot at playing in the majors.
RE: Not that interested in Alonso  
Beer Man : 7/18/2017 10:25 am : link
In comment 13530868 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
But if Gray is involved, I'd seriously consider including Rutherford.

Of course injuries happen, but corner outfield seems like it's about to be locked down for the foreseeable future
Not a big Gray fan, so I don't like the trade. But I agree with you, with the glut of top OF talent throughout the Yankees' system, the Yanks are going to have to trade someone at some point in the future (i.e., Rutherford, Florial, McKinney, or maybe Frazier). Judge is a lock, then there is Hicks and these guys for the last 3 OF spots (2-starters and one rotational). Of course with the DH, one more could be kept in the rotation. I like Frazier, not sold on Hicks yet, and the other are all promising left handed sticks (which the Yanks love).
Alonso's  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 10:26 am : link
breakout looks legit. He changed his swing and approach. I'm not saying he's worth overpaying for but there are cases where guys "change" things and it appears he is one of them.
Hoya  
Greg from LI : 7/18/2017 10:27 am : link
Fangraphs had an article up just yesterday on how Gray's stuff isn't what it used to be despite still pitching effectively. He used to have a killer breaking ball but it's league average now.
I am not ....  
Beer Man : 7/18/2017 10:29 am : link
Quote:
I could see the Yanks trading Mateo, McKinney, and throwing in Abreu. I think Fowler could also be trade fodder. I'm really high on Tyler Wade and think he's being groomed to eventually be the Yank's super-utility guy and the future lead off batter, so I'd be surprised if they let him go.
a fan of trading Mateo. He has really come on since being promoted to AA. I would like to see him a SS with Torres at 3B. I would love to see him hitting leadoff someday. I think if not for the injury, Fowler would already have been traded. He is good, but I think the other OF prospects have much bigger upsides.
No  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 10:30 am : link
way should the Yankees give up Rutherford for ANY rental but if it takes a guy like Mateo I wouldn't think twice. He's become pretty overrated by prospect people. He's really stagnated. An Alonso or Duda should really help them at the right price. I could see Beane being high on a lottery ticket like Florial
fuck Duda  
Greg from LI : 7/18/2017 10:33 am : link
We have enough injury-prone players. Don't need to deal for another one, especially not one who is 31 already.
Everyone forgets Alonso was once a top prospect  
HomerJones45 : 7/18/2017 10:33 am : link
7th pick in the entire draft by the Reds.
RE: RE: Not that interested in Alonso  
mavric : 7/18/2017 10:34 am : link
In comment 13530888 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 13530868 Kyle in NY said:


Quote:


But if Gray is involved, I'd seriously consider including Rutherford.

Of course injuries happen, but corner outfield seems like it's about to be locked down for the foreseeable future

Not a big Gray fan, so I don't like the trade. But I agree with you, with the glut of top OF talent throughout the Yankees' system, the Yanks are going to have to trade someone at some point in the future (i.e., Rutherford, Florial, McKinney, or maybe Frazier). Judge is a lock, then there is Hicks and these guys for the last 3 OF spots (2-starters and one rotational). Of course with the DH, one more could be kept in the rotation. I like Frazier, not sold on Hicks yet, and the other are all promising left handed sticks (which the Yanks love).


The only thing the Yanks love more than LH sluggers, are switch hitters. And it's been that way since Mickey Mantle terrorized pitchers. Throw in Roy White, Jorge Posada, Bernie, Beltran, etc., and the Yanks loved them. That's why Hicks is sticking no matter what. He will be in the OF rotation for a long time to come because he is the only switch hitter left on the team - and not to mention, he's a top notch player, both defensively and hitting. He's still young and just starting to get comfortable in the majors and a valuable piece of the Yank's future (IMHO)
RE: No  
Beer Man : 7/18/2017 10:38 am : link
In comment 13530896 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
way should the Yankees give up Rutherford for ANY rental but if it takes a guy like Mateo I wouldn't think twice. He's become pretty overrated by prospect people. He's really stagnated. An Alonso or Duda should really help them at the right price. I could see Beane being high on a lottery ticket like Florial
Mateo may have stagnated at Tampa A, but since his promotion to Trenton AA he has been on fire. After 18 games he is hitting .365, HR-3, 3B-3, 2B-6, runs scored-20, SB-9
RE: Everyone forgets Alonso was once a top prospect  
Beer Man : 7/18/2017 10:40 am : link
In comment 13530898 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
7th pick in the entire draft by the Reds.
But he is now over 30
RE: RE: No  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 10:41 am : link
In comment 13530907 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 13530896 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


way should the Yankees give up Rutherford for ANY rental but if it takes a guy like Mateo I wouldn't think twice. He's become pretty overrated by prospect people. He's really stagnated. An Alonso or Duda should really help them at the right price. I could see Beane being high on a lottery ticket like Florial

Mateo may have stagnated at Tampa A, but since his promotion to Trenton AA he has been on fire. After 18 games he is hitting .365, HR-3, 3B-3, 2B-6, runs scored-20, SB-9


His BABIP in AA is .444...Keith Law really hammered him saying he just doesn't hit the ball with any authority. I'd sell high if he could headline a deal. He didn't even make BA's mid season top 100.
RE: Hoya  
bigbluehoya : 7/18/2017 10:46 am : link
In comment 13530892 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Fangraphs had an article up just yesterday on how Gray's stuff isn't what it used to be despite still pitching effectively. He used to have a killer breaking ball but it's league average now.


Thanks, Greg. I saw the headline yesterday over there but didn't have a chance to read. I just did. Definitely interesting. It's a strange dynamic because all of their other peripherals seem to indicate he's back to 2014/15, and the K-rate is better. Is it smoke and mirrors? Or does the ceiling go higher if he re-finds the curve?

Gotta love baseball.
RE: RE: Hoya  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 10:47 am : link
In comment 13530911 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
In comment 13530892 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


Fangraphs had an article up just yesterday on how Gray's stuff isn't what it used to be despite still pitching effectively. He used to have a killer breaking ball but it's league average now.



Thanks, Greg. I saw the headline yesterday over there but didn't have a chance to read. I just did. Definitely interesting. It's a strange dynamic because all of their other peripherals seem to indicate he's back to 2014/15, and the K-rate is better. Is it smoke and mirrors? Or does the ceiling go higher if he re-finds the curve?

Gotta love baseball.


The piece Greg referenced
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Hoya  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 10:49 am : link
In comment 13530911 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
In comment 13530892 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


Fangraphs had an article up just yesterday on how Gray's stuff isn't what it used to be despite still pitching effectively. He used to have a killer breaking ball but it's league average now.



Thanks, Greg. I saw the headline yesterday over there but didn't have a chance to read. I just did. Definitely interesting. It's a strange dynamic because all of their other peripherals seem to indicate he's back to 2014/15, and the K-rate is better. Is it smoke and mirrors? Or does the ceiling go higher if he re-finds the curve?

Gotta love baseball.


He's never been as good as his rep. His best season he posted a 3.45 FIP (2015) which was good for 26th in baseball. Not really sure where he got this rep of being a potential ace.
Just a note on Hicks.  
section125 : 7/18/2017 10:59 am : link
After Judge nailed Alonzo at the plate from mid-right field they were freaking out at his 98 mph strike to home. Remember Hicks threw out his guy earlier at 105.5 mph....
Could Judge throw harder, IDK.?

So when it comes to cannons in the outfield, Hicks still has the best arm. Frazier doesn't appear to be a slouch, either.
I won't argue that he's an ace  
bigbluehoya : 7/18/2017 10:59 am : link
Though I don't get caught up in a lot of that stuff since it's so subjective about how one defines 'ace'.

I see him as a guy who keeps the ball on the ground and misses a pretty decent number of bats. A solid number two or 1A. A guy like him plus a free agent could really turn the rotation weakness into a strength for NYY.

If he didn't have question marks he probably wouldn't be available or the price would be completely prohibitive.

Nothing's to say it isn't prohibitive right now. As always, it's all about the price.
RE: My opinion - for what it's worth  
robbieballs2003 : 7/18/2017 11:00 am : link
In comment 13530882 mavric said:
Quote:
The Yanks are thinking long term. They are grooming a team for 2018/19 and with money falling off the books, they will add a stud or two (possibly Harper or Machado, and probably a pitching ace).

So I'm thinking that in 2020, our team will look like:

OF - Frazier, Rutherford, Judge
1B - Bird (Conner/?)
2B - Torres
SS - Didi
3B - Machado
C - Sanchez
DH - Canaan Smith (also can backup 1B, RF, and C)
Pitching: anybody's guess with Severino, Montgomery, Kaprielian, Chance Adams, and Sheffield fighting for somewhere in the 2,3,and 4 order. I suspect the Yanks will go all out for Shohei Otani who will be the Ace of the staff.

With that said, I don't think they move Rutherford. I think the A's would love to get OF Billy McKinney back after drafting him in the first round. McKinney has been hotter than hot lately.

I could see the Yanks trading Mateo, McKinney, and throwing in Abreu. I think Fowler could also be trade fodder. I'm really high on Tyler Wade and think he's being groomed to eventually be the Yank's super-utility guy and the future lead off batter, so I'd be surprised if they let him go.

Bottom line: I can't see them letting go of Rutherford. They have a lot of quality players in the minors that don't really have a genuine shot at getting to the parent club due to the logjam of even better players in front of them and they deserve a shot at playing in the majors.


Before the season I thought Harper was a legit target. Now? No way. Not with Judge performing the way he has. We have Frazier up now. Our OF all of a sudden looks pretty stacked. Machado is much more likely. Starting pitching is still the top priority imo.
Keith Law  
BigBlueShock : 7/18/2017 11:08 am : link
Has never liked Mateo. And when Keith Law decides he doesn't like you, he will almost never change his mind.

And I'm not sure which "prospect people" are overrating Mateo at this point. Who are these people? Pretty much everyone on the planet has given up an Mateo being a top 30 type prospect. But that's ok, they gave up on Damchez too...
Sanchez  
BigBlueShock : 7/18/2017 11:08 am : link
Obviously not Damchez, lol
RE: RE: My opinion - for what it's worth  
Beer Man : 7/18/2017 11:11 am : link
In comment 13530934 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:

Before the season I thought Harper was a legit target. Now? No way. Not with Judge performing the way he has. We have Frazier up now. Our OF all of a sudden looks pretty stacked. Machado is much more likely. Starting pitching is still the top priority imo.

Agree. With the emergence of Judge, and and the other young OF talent the team has, its hard to imagine that Harper's productivity would be so much better than the Yankees' young guns to justify the $400M+ price tag that Harper will get.
RE: Keith Law  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 11:13 am : link
In comment 13530949 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
Has never liked Mateo. And when Keith Law decides he doesn't like you, he will almost never change his mind.

And I'm not sure which "prospect people" are overrating Mateo at this point. Who are these people? Pretty much everyone on the planet has given up an Mateo being a top 30 type prospect. But that's ok, they gave up on Damchez too...


I see people on twitter unwilling to give up Mateo for Sonny Gray for example... you aren't landing a good SP for a headliner less than Jorge Mateo, lets be realistic here. Can't say "these 5 aren't available" and expect anything more than truly garbage SP. As for that Law note it's simply untrue in regard to Mateo. He had him at #55 in baseball in 2016.
RE: RE: RE: My opinion - for what it's worth  
Beer Man : 7/18/2017 11:14 am : link
In comment 13530956 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 13530934 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:



Before the season I thought Harper was a legit target. Now? No way. Not with Judge performing the way he has. We have Frazier up now. Our OF all of a sudden looks pretty stacked. Machado is much more likely. Starting pitching is still the top priority imo.


Agree. With the emergence of Judge, and and the other young OF talent the team has, its hard to imagine that Harper's productivity would be so much better than the Yankees' young guns to justify the $400M+ price tag that Harper will get.
Not to mention the team is eventually going to have to pay top dollars to keep players like Judge, Sanchez, and Sevi.
Here  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 11:14 am : link
is Law on Mateo before the 2016 season, read this and tell me he sounds like a guy who "didn't like him" at the time.
Link - ( New Window )
Mateo  
PaulN : 7/18/2017 11:15 am : link
Was that type of kid that needed a few years and a few pounds added to his body, I would not give up on a player that has his speed and his power combination, no matter what so called expert has to say. He is on fire now, and now we trade him because we are selling high, are we? Can we see what he develops into next season, now that he seems to have hit his stride. Frazier struggled this season, now that you watch him play, would you give him up. Sometimes you have to wait until a PERSON matures before you see what he is as a player.
Rumors  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 11:15 am : link
the Orioles may listen on Machado.
So  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 11:17 am : link
which SP do you guys anticipate adding when you don't want to trade

Frazier, Rutherford, Mateo and Torres. Not being snarky at all but what kind of SP would you expect holding back those 4? I'd suggest not much of one.
Yeah, I'm thinking we pass on Harper, too.  
bceagle05 : 7/18/2017 11:17 am : link
If Machado bounces back and plays like Machado over the next year and a half, I'd expect us to make a big push for him. Of greater importance is how quickly we can rid ourselves of Gardy and Ellsbury. Frazier and Hicks are superior players, and need to be in the lineup. Rutherford and Florial are a couple of years away, so I'd hate to deal Frazier right now unless it's for a #1 or #2 pitcher.
RE: RE: RE: My opinion - for what it's worth  
mavric : 7/18/2017 11:18 am : link
In comment 13530956 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 13530934 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:



Before the season I thought Harper was a legit target. Now? No way. Not with Judge performing the way he has. We have Frazier up now. Our OF all of a sudden looks pretty stacked. Machado is much more likely. Starting pitching is still the top priority imo.


Agree. With the emergence of Judge, and and the other young OF talent the team has, its hard to imagine that Harper's productivity would be so much better than the Yankees' young guns to justify the $400M+ price tag that Harper will get.


I used to hear he'd be looking at half a billion, but the latest stories say 650-750K for his services. To me, it's like A-Rod all over again, but at 3 times the money.

No way! I hope the Yanks have learned their lesson on handing out ridiculous contracts only to get stuck paying tens of millions a year for several years after the guy is no longer a stud. Let some other team pay out their ass for the guy. It's not like he alone can carry a team, but he would sure draw plenty of resentment from teammates who are having a better year than him and getting a tiny portion of the money he's pulling in.
Red Sox  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 11:19 am : link
joining the hunt for Todd Frazier.
Cano was never a top 100 prospect  
Greg from LI : 7/18/2017 11:21 am : link
And, since I can't stand Dave Cameron and love to take shots at him every chance I get, Cameron said Cano was a terrible prospect who would never amount to anything. It took him YEARS to admit that he was completely, totally wrong about Cano.
RE: Cano was never a top 100 prospect  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 11:22 am : link
In comment 13530974 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
And, since I can't stand Dave Cameron and love to take shots at him every chance I get, Cameron said Cano was a terrible prospect who would never amount to anything. It took him YEARS to admit that he was completely, totally wrong about Cano.


Cameron is great with the numbers but his minor league opinions are laughable and when he had his mariners blog his trade ideas were off the wall.
For me  
bigbluehoya : 7/18/2017 11:24 am : link
Torres, Frazier, Adams are the only ones completely off the table.

I'd go something like Mateo/Florial + Austin + Tate for a guy like Gray (or someone of similar quality with a couple years of control).

Probably wouldn't be enough.

I believe if the team makes a major trade  
Beer Man : 7/18/2017 11:28 am : link
it will be for SP. Not so much for this year as for next year. They are hurting for pitching now, but next year could be worst. Pineda is done, CC is a FA at season's end, and Tanaka could opt out at seasons end. Nothing is certain as Tanaka may stay because his value has dropped significantly this year, and CC could be resigned on the cheap (short term). If Pindea ever returns, it would probably be as a reliever; as a started he has struggled every year to stay healthy. As of now, it seems the team will be in the hunt for at least two SPs next year (possibly 3).
Why would Adams be off the table?  
arniefez : 7/18/2017 11:35 am : link
Have you ever seen him pitch? I'd be willing to bet that Adams will never have as much value to the Yankees as he does right now as a trade chip. He's a short converted reliever with questionable secondary pitches. He's not AA Phil Hughes or Joba or Ian Kennedy. For a young proven MLB pitcher who is a 2 or 3 with possible upside I'll drive him to the airport. That's exactly what the 2018 Yankees need right now. Adams is not that and probably will never be that.
RE: Why would Adams be off the table?  
bigbluehoya : 7/18/2017 11:58 am : link
In comment 13530995 arniefez said:
Quote:
Have you ever seen him pitch? I'd be willing to bet that Adams will never have as much value to the Yankees as he does right now as a trade chip. He's a short converted reliever with questionable secondary pitches. He's not AA Phil Hughes or Joba or Ian Kennedy. For a young proven MLB pitcher who is a 2 or 3 with possible upside I'll drive him to the airport. That's exactly what the 2018 Yankees need right now. Adams is not that and probably will never be that.


So it sounds like for you, Adams isn't off the table. That's how opinions work.

I don't claim to be an expert on any of these prospects. For me, NYY have struggled with pitching for so long that I'm loath to deal the closest-to-MLB ready good pitching prospect they've had in a number of years.

You could say "x prospect will never have more value than he does in a trade right now" about nearly every player and be right 75% of the time. That's just how baseball works. Low hit rates. That doesn't make it right to trade them all, just like it doesn't make it right to hold them all.

Dan, for Fulmer I'd give up quite a bit.  
yatqb : 7/18/2017 12:00 pm : link
Perhaps Rutherford and Mateo, with a Class A arm thrown in.
Word  
DanMetroMan : 7/18/2017 12:12 pm : link
is a few of these non-contenders are gauging potential returns on guys like Fulmer.
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